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    "text": " Most locks are not engineered to supremely high tolerances. Most locks look, and this is exaggerated, something like this. Imperfections in the machining process leave those pinstack cylinders out of alignment. And any slight deviation in that alignment means that when you torque the plug there's really only one pinstack binding at any given time. This is what makes picking possible at its most basic level. Because if you apply a little bit of pressure on that plug you can do what's called setting a pin. See we're going to torque this and if you reach in there and start pushing on a pinstack, eventually you'll reach the right height and the pin will clear. The shear line is met and it'll spin. Now granted there's not a single pinstack in a lock, there's a row of them, but because you notice when it clears this is holding up the driver that driver is now out of the equation. That driver pin will not slip back down. You can keep pressure on this plug and go through the stacks one at a time, setting them and opening the lock. It looks a little like this. A tool called a torque wrench is put in and a little bit of pressure is put on the cylinder. A pick tool, in this case we're just doing pin by pin picking, goes in you reach, you reach, oh here's one that's binding. When we set it, it clicks. Keep reaching, keep reaching, and oh there's another one. I feel it binding. That plug will click a little more and a little more and eventually you can have them all one at a time open. This is not not complex. It's not in the same order every time because those imperfections, remember they're not planned, so which pinstack is binding in which order always varies, but the principle is the same. And everyone give me some some goodwill and let's kick it off the right way. Hopefully not have a demonstration effect hit us and let's see what we can do with this lock in front of us here. Is that in pretty good focus with my craptacular webcam setup? What I'm using is called a jackknife set. It's a nice little compact job. I think the Irvine guys have these here this year. Anybody checked out the vendor areas? Irvine Underground has their spread of tools out there. Yeah, good guys. So this is, this is your basic cheap master lock. You'll find I beat up on master a lot in this talk, not because they make the worst locks out there, but, you know, they're definitely in the business of it. But honestly, I mean, we'll cover later a lot of what, you know, Mark was saying and how many people were at the last talk? The ethics of full disclosure. So you realize a lot, you know, can you really blame companies for making crappy locks if the consumers continually buy them? And can you blame the consumers really for buying crappy locks if they don't know they're crappy? Exactly who's to blame is, is really kind of up in the air, but one thing is for sure, these aren't really the most skillful locks ever. Yeah, so the lock is open now. Thank you. That, that's as simple as it is. Literally, you just reach in a little bit. This is that, this is that torque wrench I was showing you here. Are we still in frame? There we go. This is, this torque wrench just slips right down in the keyway. A little bit of torque and pushing those pins up. We're going to do a hands-on session when all this is done, by the way. I invite people to come and actually try this. You'll, you'll be amazed how easy it is. Question? Yeah, so everyone has their own technique that they like. In fact, you'll see some people like to put the torque wrench up in the top of the keyway. Mouse, you like that. Some people seat it down low. I tend to just hold it right in my hand, just let the, the torque wrench give pressure this way, because as I mentioned, the two biggest mistakes people make when they're first practicing this, when they first want to get into it, is too much effort. Some people put too much pressure on the wrench, which just means the pins are going to jam so hard you can't push them. And some people push the pins so far up that the driver clears and then the key pin goes up into the shear line and get, you fault, you set it way too high. The only way is to release pressure, let them all drop and try again. Like, the way I try to describe it to people, imagine you, well, could be applicable here. You just woke up, you're still hung over, you just smoked a fat cannon, and you're like 10 times more mellow than that. Like, dial it down a lot if you try to pick locks and it's not working for you when we're doing the hands-on thing. Chances are it's the lightest amount of pressure you could ever need. And that's really, there's, there's not a whole lot to it. That's the basics. So, how do we, how do we make locks better? How, how is a lock, you know, everyone's going to say, well, crap, I have locks like this, am I at risk? No, you're not really at risk. There are better locks out there. No one talks about this stuff, so no one buys them, but there's a whole lot of high-end features that locks can encompass, and I will cover them now. There's things called secure pins. There's a lot of other advanced features that specialty locks have in them. First, let's talk about secure pins a little bit. This is our same design, the same pin stack, but you notice the driver is a different shape. This is called a mushroom top pin or a mushroom driver, and you can, you can really just picture it, how pretty easily, if you were to try to torque this, that's going to bind up on the lip. It's going to get in your way. It's going to be just a real disaster to try to pick that. It's, it's a real headache. Another type of specialty pin is what's called a spool pin. They can have a notch that's big or small cut into it. Spool pins are even trickier, because you get the sensation of clicking and set it. You're like, oh, I felt it move. I must have set something. No, you really didn't. If you ever have a lock that you keep trying and trying and trying it, you're like, what the hell is wrong with this? You may have a spool pin in there. If you want to defeat high security pins and the other kind of, there's another called serrated pins. They just jam on everything, and they're just kind of a bitch. Yeah. If you want to defeat any type of, you know, if you want to pick, usually you'll use a tension wrench that looks like this. They're usually called feather wrenches. It's the very, very light amount of torque, the lightest amount you could ever imagine. Hey, what's going on, priest? No problem. Bring him on in. We're having a good time. Hey, with this being such a long talk, are you going to do a spot the Fed maybe in the middle of it, if we want to break it up some? So yeah, if you use a very, very light touch on the wrench, you can actually force the pin stack. Yeah, there's some seats up here. Raise your hand if there's some extra seats near you. We got, yeah, there we go. Still more over here. All the way down. You don't have to stand on the wall. Come on, everyone else got up friggin' early, and they're in their seats. You're holding up the show. Yeah, give him a chance. All right. We'll get it eventually. Just calm, small words. This is priest, everybody, for anyone who has not met. How many, how many people is this your first DEF CON? Welcome, absolutely welcome. He is kind of the epitome of the goon squad. They're really, they work hard, they make sure everything flows right, and we always appreciate all they do for us. So just, if they ask you to do something, just do it. Anyone who's had the pleasure of comparing dealings with the goons as opposed to dealings with AP security knows which end of the stick you want to be on. So, those were advanced pins, and we can defeat them, you know, defeat is kind of a rough word, but with that feather touch wrench. What about even more advanced features? Because really all this takes is a specialized tool and a little bit more patience. What if you want something even more secure than that? Well, some locks, even in the basic pin tumbler design, do incorporate additional security features, and we can cover them now. This is called a Schlage Everest lock. You can see that it has a normal complement of pins, just, you know, pin stacks like we've been looking at before, but up underneath the bottom of this plug, there's something called a check pin. By the way, this is, this will be for a couple of light, we have a lot of leftover bottle opener lighters from the BCCC event. This will be for a couple of lighters and a Red Bull. Who can tell me where at a previous DEF CON did a Schlage Everest lock appear? It was part of the obstacle course. I need more specific. It had a specific name. Two years back. Nobody? It was a big blue lock. Nobody remembers? Come on, I know you're, a drink and a lighter. Nobody remembers? What? The beer lock! Yes, it was the beer lock, which no one opened. Way to go. And it's a shame no one opened it because this is actually pretty easily beaten. As you can see, this is the plug up underneath. You can see this check pin sticking through here. Now that engages with part of the outer shell and this is not going to rotate unless the pins up top are set and this is pulled out of the way. You can see this little bar. Well, that little bar engages with a big groove slot on the side of the Everest key. You can see most keys do have grooves. They actually, they help seat the key in with what are called wards. Those protrusions are called wards that seat the keyway. This, however, the groove is deep because it actually picks up that pin and as the key travels down the keyway, it lifts it up and out of the way. Well, it didn't take people too long to realize that you can just make a tension wrench with a nice long finger and pick up the pin that way or you could take an Everest key, cut the hell out of it, stick it down the lock and use that as a tension wrench. By the way, we want to thank Matt Blaze for a lot of these beautiful photos you see. I referenced him later. He's a real groovy cat and he was very kind and let me use these. For a, let's see, we'll still work, we've got a lot of Red Bull. We're keeping working. For a Red Bull, can anyone tell me the name of the vendor who manufactures and sells these Everest picks? Don't please shout and no, it's not Southern. Let me see. You've won stuff. Wait. Yes. Yes, it is Peterson International. Very good. Applaud for the man. He knows cool shit. Yeah, this little Everest. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the question was, is that simple? Yeah, as far as I've seen, all the plugs have that. Yeah, these are the Peterson wrenches. They come in two different, you know, there's a left and a right one. And they're really excellent. They're very well made. Peterson, we talk about Peterson later in the talk. They're a very good supplier. They're good people. So, we're moving our way up from like ass-tacular security to almost good security. Let's talk about very nice security. This is called an Assa V10 Twin. This is a very popular lock in Europe. You don't see a lot of Assa locks in America. You actually don't see a lot of very good locks in America. There's maybe one brand. But Assa is a very good lock. And you can see it has a traditional pin stack with, as you know, it's secure. This is a spool pin up here. And the spool pin even has an extra lip that really binds up hard. But next to that, there's a tiny pin stack seated way down on the side. And you can tell that only if these pins are lifted to the right height, can what is called a sidebar fall inward. This sidebar, unlike remember the check pin was seated down here. The check pin was vulnerable. You could grab it from the keyway. The sidebar cannot be grabbed by anything you stick down the keyway. The only way the sidebar is going to move is if these tiny pins on the side, which are really hard. You can't really insert picks in there. It's a really tiny space. The only way the sidebar is going to fall inward is if that is raised up. Now, I don't know if you can see my faint text here. These are very secure. But the person, in fact, who first showed them to me, a guy named Barry Wells. How many people know Barry Wells? How many have ever heard him talk at Hope or anything? No? Oh man, you guys got it. He is... I'll show you his videos later. He's a real amazing cat. Barry, who was a big fan of this lock, was very disappointed when he found out there is what he calls a geographical weakness. You can see this lock right here with the cuts on a key. That's called the bidding. The bidding cuts are normal cuts right here. And you can see the sidebar cuts down here. What's up, X? Oh, more free stuff? Oh, yes. Agent X, everybody. He's running the show as well with the speakers. Big hand for him. In my hand, I have some individually numbered issues, hardcover, a Frac 63, final issue. They're so warm. They're still warm from the presses and from their total hot, the coolness. We're going to be schwagging them out tonight. He's going to be schwagging them out right now. Will this be for questions or just for fanfare and pandemonium? I don't want arms ripped off. We're all gentle human beings here, I'm sure. Not savages. Except for that guy. And they're individually numbered. They're giving away issue number 13 in the Apollo talk. That's cool. Limited edition, people. And here I thought I was just going to give away little cheap Red Bull and lighters. Okay, just so we're clear and there's no conflicting orders, do not stand in front of the doors. Yes, sir. I'm looking right at you with the backpack. Can we get a hand raise again real fast if there's any more seats? Do they all go? There's a few more seats, people. I know it's nice being able to have that room to spread out, but come on, really, raise your hand if you got room. I need the people back there by the door. You three in black. I need two people in the aisle. Hang on, we're getting there. And yes, I know everybody's in black, but I just pointed to you. We got one seat here. Fine looking gentlemen, ladies, come on. You know what? I'm going to bring you down. You, sir, in the yellow shirts, come up. Okay. I need to be able to see the doors. I can't see the doors. Thank you. No, this guy's not feeling any love right here. This is prime seating, especially if I start throwing stuff. Okay, we've got one more seat. Yeah, send him up, Jay. All right. Just please keep your feet tucked in. Please keep... I got one more seat. Send me somebody from this side of the room over here. Somebody raise you up in the white shirt there. Yes, you. Come on down. You're the next contestant on Get a Better View. Sir, in the yellow, right there. Is there one more, sir? Is this guy? He still needs a spot, right? You want to move right in there? Yeah, you do. We got... is that seat? Right here, guy. All right. Is there any more seats? Because I overbooked. Yes, sir, right over there. Okay, please keep the aisles clear. I've got to be able to see the doors from the stage. That means if I see you standing in front of the door from the stage, you're in front of the door. Okay, the only reason we're doing that is if a fire marshal walks in, we have the illusion of we didn't overbook too badly. We're trying to get as many people in as we can for the popular talks. Okay, we're working on something for next year. We didn't have a chance to implement it this year. Hopefully we will have it up and running by next year, where we'll have some type of signup system where you can sign up for the talks that you want to see. We'll have you... with the signup, we'll have you line up in one line. People who want to see it but didn't get to sign up will line up in another line. So it'll be first come, first served. There won't be this rush to the other line, you know, 30 minutes after you're into the first talk. So you get to the other talk you want to see. But for now, what we're going to do is we're trying to get as many people in as we can. We have actually quadrupled the seating for last year. Okay, you'll notice that what we found was the fire marshal was working from a four-year-old occupancy limit, and we got that updated. That's why there's more people. You'll notice that you guys were in a huge line all the way back around the side of the hotel. I'm not that good. You'll notice that all of you got in, plus everybody was queued up over here. So we got everybody in as we could. We apologize for putting you on the floor like this, sir. Did he smell bad or something, sir? Okay. A little lover's quarrel. We got everybody in as we could. We're sorry you had to sit on the floor. We're doing our best. Please work with us. We appreciate your patience, and we'll keep doing what we can do. Thanks, guys. After this talk, if you buy a pair of lock picks, and the police pull you over, and they find the lock picks, do not say, I'm a hacker, and I break into my client's buildings. We actually had someone do that. Welcome to, you're now in jail for having thieving tools. The correct answer is, I'm going to locksmithing school. These are classes for my tools, or I am an apprentice. We'll cover that. There's a whole legal section we'll cover. I'm a hacker, and I break into my client's buildings. That's breaking, entering, and having thieving tools. So, a little subtlety there. Work that angle, I'm serious. Alright, so we were going to talk about the potential weakness in the V-Twin, right? What's that? Geographical weakness, yes. And the reason we call it that is because these sort of bidding cuts can be... if you've had a key made, you can see the machine's not sophisticated. It's just a grinder that just grinds off the key, does the bidding. This bidding cut down here, however, for the sidebar, is not easily accessible by a traditional grinder machine. It has to be made on a special milling machine. These blanks are special ordered, which actually increases the security. You can't just, no fool off the street can just get a key blank and cut it. But, it's a nightmare for logistics and distribution of locks to locksmith vendors. So, Barry and the people at a German sport group found out that all over Germany and other places, they're just divided into territories, and locks are sold with a certain sidebar bidding in that territory, so that all the key blanks for that territory are there. So, it's not a big weakness, but it's just kind of the cost of doing business, the way the distribution works. They don't just deal over the internet, like a guy at a local shop can't have 80 bajillion of these blanks if a customer comes in. So, it's something to keep in mind. And that comes into play with what we do bump keying later. I see a couple of hands. I do not know how many territories there are. Yeah, SSDevs, we'll talk about them later. They talk about it. Yes. I would imagine someone could be mapping that out potentially. I don't know if you can look at just the bidding and know where it came from. He was asking if you just look at that sidebar bidding, can you tell the territory? Obviously, there's got to be a master list somewhere that coordinates distribution, but I don't know of it. There was one more hand. That's a tremendous question. If simple changes to the driver pins, if the addition of a ridge or a lip or serrations, if they make it so much harder to pick, why don't all locks come with this? And the reason for that is Americans especially, but in general, people are cheap everywhere. You've got a figure that costs X number of cents to introduce that feature into a lock, multiplied by how many you distribute in a year. Someone in a boardroom looked at a spreadsheet and said, no, we don't freaking care. Let's just make them this way. That's the answer to that. Oh yeah, that's a very good point. You can retrofit, you can repin your locks. You can buy pin kits. Because the driver, the height of the driver, the size doesn't matter. It's only these bottom pins that have to be the right size to work with your key bidding. You can retrofit your drivers, definitely. And in the hands-on session, Mouse, if you have the ones that are pulled apart, we can show people how you do that. So, moving onward, that is a very nice... I don't want to knock the V10, though. For that one weakness, it's still a stupendous lock. This, however, is probably my favorite lock. And interestingly enough, it is an American company that makes this lock. How many people have heard of Medeco locks? Now, there's some hands. Medeco is one of the finest locks I can think of out there. I don't work for them. I'm, you know, not dating anyone there. They're just really good. They're really good designs. Medeco keys, besides being insanely restricted and hard to get your hands on, have what's called cross-cutting. And if you can kind of see these pins, you can notice they're chiseled on the tips. They're also serrated, by the way, these key pins. These key pins and these chisel tips actually fit into, you can kind of see here, these cross-cut notches. These pins spin as they track up and down as the key goes into the lock. It's called axial rotation. Only if these pins have spun correctly, lined up a notch on the side, will a sidebar fall inward, and then will the lock open. These locks are psycho. You can't, there's no easy bypass for this. And in fact, the gentleman we've mentioned, Barry Wells, I think is the only man alive who I know who can pick these. I've seen him do it, and I shit myself. I mean, you know, he reaches, he actually uses that finger pick, and he spins the pin by hand. And you can even see, this has a fake cut here. So you can feel like you've spun it and you've caught on something, but it's a fake cut, a deep cut. It's a really hard lock. And for someone like Barry to do it, I've seen him like eight minutes, ten minutes. A regular person, just any guy with any hope of picking this would take like an hour and a half, two hours. If you have a security situation where someone can kneel down in front of a door on your property and fiddle with something for two hours, you've got a whole different set of problems. If they're not getting noticed. So those are some examples of very high security features in locks. These are out there. They're not outrageously expensive. If you, you know, factor in the costs involved, you know, what are many costs? Like $100, $150? The V-Twin I think you can get for about $80. The cost offset is not a big difference considering what you're getting out of it. I see a hand. Yes. Yes, it is. The question was, can you replace just the cylinder, just the core of the lock? Yes, you can. You can usually mortise cylinders, screw out. You can swap out cylinders. In fact, a lot of really high-end... How many people here are in the service or affiliated with the service of any kind? Military service? Man, just a handful. Geez. A lot of military locks are standard designs, like military handcuffs, military padlocks. They're standard industry locks that have been swapped out with a Medeco biaxial core. And like you'll see... Yeah, so you can retrofit locks to varying degrees. Yeah, the Best Locks, the brand Best. I cover them in a bit. They have a very, very nice system. Especially it's one that's very nice to manage. We're jumping ahead though, but because you're on top of things, you get a free letter. Good catch! Very good point to bring up. We're going to cover Best Lock. We're going to cover a lot of stuff, so we've got to keep it moving along. Oh no, that was a very good point someone mentioned. Okay, you're not going to make this on a grinding machine or at your local hardware store. You can't make these cross cuts. Very, very restricted blanks. So that was a peek at very good security. Let's flip it back the other direction now and go back to bad security for a minute. Yes? The little light shines in the holes? I don't know what you mean. Show me later, give me an idea later and we'll talk about it. The question was, if you keep picking and playing with a lock, will it eventually wear the lock down? Yes, there's a lot of potential wear and tear that a lock can experience. The springs that push the pins, those can get weaker. A lot of pins are brass because they don't corrode. Brass is easily misshapen. In fact, I talk about that later. There's some techniques that are really bad for locks. You can beat the locks up and make them easier to pick that way. Question again? Those are called dimple locks. We're going to cover that in a minute. I've got to stop rewarding people for jumping ahead of me. But no more jumping ahead. Hold on, we're going to get to all the fun stuff. First, let's talk about really crappy things. Hang on, wait, wait, wait. I'm trying to go forward, people. I expected questions at the end. This is my second time ever speaking, so you've got to bear with me. Thank you. We're talking about very bad locks at the moment. Can I get a show of hands how many people have used this lock? That's about right. These locks are incredibly popular. These locks are everywhere in our life. Everyone and their dog has a master lock securing something. These locks do not provide anything. If you have something that you care about that you're securing with a master padlock, you know, you're pretty much doing this. Why, you say? Well, you can take a master padlock, much like this little number, and use a guy like this. Does anybody know what this is? This is a padlock shim. A padlock shim can be inserted into a lock, or it can be broken in the lock, because this shim has been beat to hell. And that'll open that lock. Question? Yes, it will. I'll cover which can and can't be shimmed. Shims are a very, very elegant sort of attack against a lock. I mean, they really, I would say, fall into the category of a bypass. Just because the simplicity of the design, and the fact that Americans, especially Americans, but everyone in general, likes convenience as opposed to utility, makes this possible. Let's look a little bit more at this master. You can see it has a, all padlocks, like, you know, it has a shackle. It has a little dog notch. And that interfaces with, let's see if we can see down here, you know, a locking bar that's in there. And only if the combination is dialed in, will that bar retract, allowing you to pull the lock open. Well, what if you're not opening the lock, but rather you're closing the lock? You don't have to dial a combination. You don't have to fiddle with a key or anything. You just, you know, slap it shut. Well, that's because that bar is spring-loaded. The bar is just going to get out of the way. It's like, oh, the shackle's coming down, I better move. The way, and I'm going to try to get, I don't make films, so bear with me. The way a shim works, a shim is inserted outside the shackle, slid down in, and then turned, effectively obscuring that dog notch. You see that? It just, I'm trying to get that in line. It just pushes the bar right out of the way. It's like credit carding a door. I have a lot of friends back home who are in theater. There are theater techs and stage designers and stuff. And there's kind of an axiom with anybody who does craft work on stage and design sets. If you're doing it with springs, you're doing it wrong. This is an example of that phenomenon. Many things in locks that involve spring action are easily, easily compromised. Because a spring is, by nature, not a, it's a dumb device. It doesn't know what's pushing on it. And you can usually just pop them right out of the way. So, padlock shims. The cheapest stuff in the world. You know, you can buy them in packs. What's that? Oh yeah, you can make, we're going to cover, that's going to be a question. Yes, question. Yes, very good point. Metal bus fuses, there's a lot of material that you can make shims out of. Shims you can buy, you know, the 20 pack is $25. I'm going to have some of them if you want to play with them in the hands-on area. You can also make your own. And this will be a question. Let's see, this is kind of a hard question because it's very, very current events, if you will. The question for a Red Bull and one of these issues of Frack. What readily available material from Defcon did we use to open a jammed padlock at Civiac's house yesterday afternoon? It was not a badge from Blastier, but a good guess. Hang on, I saw... Wait, wait, whoa, no shout out. I saw your hand next. The man is correct. Come on up. The answer was metal from a beer can. And I have to definitely apologize. I'm sure there's got to be people flailing their arms on the sides and I might not be seeing you. I apologize for that. I'm going to try to keep you in my field of vision when I'm asking questions. Yeah, just the other day, Civiac had some friends staying with them. They're moving from San Diego. Then they stopped here. They're moving up to Seattle. It's polyhazard and I forget who else. But as we, I have definitely done this before. Many people have done this before. Some locks, the shackle completely pulls off. You know, the lock base can actually be completely removed. And if you accidentally slap it shut, upside down, the keyway is kind of inaccessible. It happens. It happens to the best of us. I've done it. In fact, I first experimented with this when I did it at home. We had the right tools in hand. And a simple beer can is all it took to shim this right off. We'll do this in the hands-on session. I've got plenty of beer can metal up here, man. We're going to make some, cut them up, and have a good time with that. It may or may not have been the beer that resulted in the lock being that way. I am uncertain. Very, very, very easy to do. In fact, you can ask them. We probably took, I guess, 30, 40 minutes in midday Vegas traffic to get to the house. It probably took 30 or 40 seconds to get this lock off. There are, however, unshimmable padlocks. There are very, very good padlocks on the market that shims will do absolutely nothing to. Some padlocks have a nice big boot or collar on the top. That makes the shim really hard to insert, damn near impossible. Incidentally, for, let's say, a red, this is kind of an easy one, for a Red Bull and a lighter, and I'm keeping the sides, keep the sides in view, what is the actual purpose of the collar or boot up on these? Whoa, that was a lot of hands. I think it was this way down there. Preventing bolt cutters is the exact right answer. Come on up, get a drink and a lighter. Other locks, you can actually, let me flip back to this. This is not the best solution, but if you were to just put notches in this bar, and literally, I mean, we're not talking about re-engineering the lock here. Oh, here's a lighter, man. Bottle opener lighters, gotta dig those. You know, we're not talking about a massive new design. If you were to just notch this bar, that would rip the crap out of the shim as you try to spin it around. And if you, you can actually kind of see in there, this bar is pretty beat up. I have some padlocks that I've shimmed so many times, they just shred the shims now because there's so many scrapings. So if people would just notch the bar, it would be kind of, kind of a solution. But really, the best type of padlock, and frankly, in my mind, the only type of padlock that can be considered useful at all, involves what's called double ball locking. Double ball locked padlocks, the shackle has, you know, a dog notch on each side. And inside, there is no bar with a spring or any other horseshit like that. There are two solid steel ball bearings. These are not going to go anywhere unless this control cylinder in the middle is rotated. You can see the control cylinder has a notch on each side. That cylinder rotates, the ball bearings drop in, that the lock will open. That is a real padlock. Anything else is, you know, a paperweight. Many locks employ, they're called key retaining locks, by the way. Locks that you have to have the key to open it and close it. Those are invariably going to be high-end double ball mechanisms that are in there. But any lock, it'll stay right on the front, double ball mechanism. Look for that. It is not at all a big investment to make that leap up. It's the difference of like a $5 lock or a $12 lock. Moving on. From good locks, we'll jump back again. We're kind of doing a high and low range of things. Warded locks. How many people have ever seen locks that look like this? Alright, yes, they are a lot of places. Warded locks are really very nice locks for certain reasons. They're very popular in outdoor situations. In fact, if you notice that trailer that I showed you in the other pictures, that was a warded lock. Why are they popular outdoors? Well, they're very resistant to fouling. They're very resistant to dirt and filth. They can rust up and they'll still usually work. They don't have an intricate pin tumbler mechanism inside. The fact that they have a very rudimentary mechanism means that you can put a lot of crap in this lock and it'll still sort of work. The other side of that coin is that it's a really rudimentary mechanism and it's a joke. Warded locks look kind of like this on the inside. You have a long keyway with wards. Those are protrusions called wards that get in the way. And at the very tip, you'll have just a notch bar with a spring. Those keys, if I jump back... Those keys... let me flip to... I used to have these numbered and the numbers have all but worn off. Got it on the first one. This key, when it goes down the keyway, the only thing... can you guys see that okay? The only thing that's actually operating this lock is this very, very tip of the key. That little tip of the key is interfacing with this lock mechanism, the latch that's hidden inside. However, what that means is... Let me pull some stuff out here. My pickset is all clouded. There we go. What that means is if you take a warded key lock and you file down... can everyone see that alright? You file down all the notches. This will still operate the lock. I think this was number one. No, it's number three. So this was... I took, you know, number one is probably this guy and I just filed all the wards off of it except for the tip. Let me get that in there. That still opens this lock. Because, you know, you only need the tip. The rest of the lock, the only thing it's doing is getting in the way. So that means you can take this to any warded lock. The tip will open. And they just, you know, there you go. Oh, I saw some hands. Wait, hang on, there's people with hands. Wait. Hands? Not so much with a regular pick, but there are what are called warded picks. And there was a hand back there. Was that the same question? I'm not familiar. They were even mentioned in the last talk. I've yet to see. If anyone has one of these, I'd love to see it. The TSA luggage lock. I don't deal with... you guys who fly, you're nuts if you check bags, man. I FedEx all my shit. I don't deal with those psychos. Hand? Okay. Okay. And you were going to ask a question as well, I'm sorry. Yeah, he makes a very valid point. A lot of these locks, they're really just decoration. Oh, we have a TSA lock? Thank you, sir. He gave that man a lighter for that. This is a... are you kidding me? This is a TSA lock? Oh, for... okay. So there's apparently varieties of TSA locks. But yeah, I hate the TSA. I won't give them any of my stuff. Alright, moving on. Oh wait, sorry, question. The question was locks that are called key retaining locks. The key is inside the padlock the whole time it's operating. That's what you're asking about? And you're saying is it a spring that keeps the key in? Oh, invariably key retaining locks tend to be much higher quality. They're going to have a double ball. So no, you can't shim those. So yeah, you can buy... Does anyone see Irvine's table? Do they have the warded picks there this time around? Yeah, Irvine usually has these sets. What are they, like nine bucks? I hope I didn't lowball that price. If they're more, they're worth it. But they should be about nine bucks. Yeah, or you can literally just buy... You know, these locks cost about seven dollars. So just buy one and carve the key down. Question. Oh, why are there different shapes? You can notice that... The question is about those shapes. The key tips aren't always the same size. Sometimes there's a very, very thin tip. Now, if you had a slightly thicker one, it might not stick all the way in. But if you have a very... You couldn't just... If I just took this key, carved it all the way down, the thin is a little weaker. So this set, it gives you kind of options. You can see how they all engage that lever on one level or another. Occasionally, you don't see them anymore, but you used to see a dual lever warded lock. In fact, I think I have one over here. I used to have one on the back of my truck for my trailer hitch. But, you know, you don't see... Any one of these could probably open just about any warded lock out there. Ah, barrel locks. New this year. Anyone who saw me at SHMOO, you didn't see this part. Barrel locks are very popular with utility companies, and they're popular in outdoor situations. I would almost... These are kind of the in-between. Are these really a lock? Are they not? I don't really know. I like to kind of use them as an example of something that works like a lock, but it shouldn't be thought of as a lock. I've seen these sometimes on perimeter fence, on way out on the edge of properties. Don't use them out there. Let the utility company work with these. They're really not truly locks. And here, we're going to play with some of them in a bit. The way barrel locks work... A barrel mechanism looks something like this. It's a double ball action inside with a plunger, and if this plunger retracts, obviously, the balls fall inward. But unlike very high quality padlocks where the double ball mechanism is engaged with a key and so forth, these really just rely on a very, very strong spring. If you just reach in there with a hook, pull that out. Let me see if I can do that for you. This is a homemade tool made out of a fishing snake. You can run wire through a wall. Very, very nice steel. If you temper it right, you can make a lot of good tools out of this. This is a barrel lock. You can see the outer casing and the little balls here. If I reach in... Sorry if I'm going out of frame for a second. There we go. That's locked. That's not the cool part. It's kind of cool, but, you know... Unlocking it. There, now you can applaud. The unlocking part. That's fun. This is the plunger that would ride all the way down inside there. I don't know if we can get that up to the camera. My camera is ass-tacular. But yeah, that little plunger just rides in and out and it's not a complex mechanism. I've known people, maybe I've heard of people, who hypothetically had their gas turned off because they were potentially a moron and didn't pay their bills for maybe a year. And maybe they turned the gas back on this way. But I could just be telling a story someone told me. Was there a question? There were a couple of questions on that one. Oh, how do I... I just... Actually, I think I have one that has... You can kind of see the plunger in there. Oh, I'll show you the key. The tool that I use just reaches in and has a hook tip and I just kind of grab as hard as I can on the spring. The spring is sort of fused to the base of the plunger. So if you get that spring at all, it'll move. Was there another question before I jumped on? No? Alright. There's another type, very similar. It's just called a screw style, bolt style. In this case, there's just threading and the bolt that's inside the plunger spins outward. The key on that... Here's what keys look like. This is the actual anchor key. It's called A-N-K-E-R. It's really just... It sticks down. I think the tip of this has a pair of hooks that flange outward if you pull the handle. But, you know, that's really all it is, just a hook. And this is the bolt style. Now, you should note that this is not a regular Phillips head or hex head pattern here. This is a unique cut pattern. And the bolt on the inside, if you have a rotating bolt style barrel lock, is a unique cut pattern. So it's very, very hard to get to pick a rotating bolt style. These are... I think Agbay makes these. These are rotating disc style. You can actually get barrel locks in rotating disc. We'll talk about what a rotating disc lock is later. They are really nice. They are a whole world of difference from what you see on the table in front of me. You can do all kind of levels of permission characteristics, master keying. If any of you work for any type of a company large enough to think about barrel locks, consider going with a higher end one. I don't know the price breakdown, but it's really, really worth it. And just worth mentioning, you see these in similar situations. A lot of the same vendors sell them. They're called intimidator screws. These are included just to mention. These are obviously not locks. Their freaking name is intimidator. It's meant just to dissuade someone. These are not to be thought of as real locks. But you'll see these in very similar light duty situations. Ah, dimple locks. Someone mentioned these earlier. Let me try to make some real estate up here. Are we having fun so far? Am I doing alright? Dimple locks. You may have seen a lot of European locks are of this design. In fact, the device, you know the club that goes on automobiles? They had a competitor that came out not too long ago. I guess it's long now. That kind of wraps around the brake pedal. And one of the big things in their infomercial was that the club lock is just a joke little lock. Our lock uses a dimple key. You'll see these on higher end situations. Dimple keys, the keyway is flipped this side. It's flat, so it's a bastard to get your picks in there. And the... Where did I... Oh, never mind. I don't have a picture of the key, just other than to show you this. Yeah, dimple keys to actually carve the bidding on them. It takes a little more skill to get in there. But inside, you know, inside most of the time, these are just simple pin tumbler locks. Let's see if I have... You know, it's just a pin stack in here. You know, it's facing a different way. It looks different, but it shouldn't be thought of as dramatically different. It has its benefits, it has its weaknesses. Some people have tried to make these locks even more secure. Let me see if I have that. Well, first, instead of showing you the more secure one, let me show you the less secure one. There are other means of, you know, if I said the keyway is so small, it's hard to put your picks in. There's other means of picking them, however. There's a method called impressioning. Those of you, the few of you who said you knew Barry Wells, the rest of you shall be introduced to him with this video clip. And we hope that we have sound running. I'm jacked in and everyone heard that loud blaring of sound earlier. So let's see what we've got. It's very difficult to pick this lock. It's extremely difficult. They put in all sorts of anti-pick pins. It really is a very nasty lock to pick. On the other hand, I just explained to you a little bit about impressioning. And there is a very easy trick to open these locks. And I'll try to demonstrate it. Here you see the original key. It has a deep cut, not so deep cut, deeper cut, not so deep cut. And here's the blank that we prepared. The blank has the cuts all the way to the deepest. So this key will never open a lock. We even made it a little bit deeper. All the holes are just a little bit deeper than they normally get. And what I'm going to try to do now is put some aluminum tape over this blank key so it becomes high again. Stick it in the lock. Then the pins will push on the prepared key. They will bind. I will move it left and right and the keys that bind will actually push deeper and deeper and deeper into the foil. And at one moment hopefully the lock will turn. And I have an exact copy of the key. And this is a technique that is possible on almost all dimple lock keys. It's not possible on the Notti locks because they have pin in pin and some have to be pushed upwards and therefore it doesn't work on that. But it works on an amazingly amount of locks. I show you what I do. I put some of this aluminum foil that is being used in the car industry and the heating industry over this blank. So as you can now see it's covered. The trick is that the way where the key will enter the lock has to be perfect. Because that's where it will probably jam up if this goes wrong. Ok. I'll try to insert it. Ok. Now, the prepared blank is in the lock. And now I will wiggle it. This will take a little bit longer than the ace lock. But hopefully the result will be the same. But anyway, if... On average that would open the lock because the tin foil would slowly shape it to the right levels. You go in there you wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, pop. That's how it would average. It wouldn't take very long. Ok, there we go. Now watch when he pulls it out. He's made an exact copy of the key. Now remember, this is a $150 lock. Well, some people are really going to be upset because this works with a lot of these tin foil locks. So that's Barry Wells. Very, very good cat to know. He's a very bright guy. And that is the impressioning technique which made... and you can see like the room just erupted at hope. That really blows people away to see it's that simple but it works. I've seen him do it and I'm just I'm in awe of the stuff that he can pull off. He's a really great guy. There's... I'm mentioning here another technique that sometimes opens these locks called bump keying. We're going to cover that in a bit too. How many people have ever heard of bump keying? Oh, only some of you. So you're going to have some fun with this in a bit. Let me see if that's next or if I added... No, I added a new section. There is a dimple lock that's a specialized style of lock. It's a high-end dimple lock that's recently the Multilock Company who was acquired by the Abloy Group a large umbrella company of lock manufacturers in Europe. The Multilock is very special because it has what's called telescoping pins or pin-in-pin systems. The pin stacks, not only do they have regular top and bottom pins, but they have their hollow so they actually have top and bottom pins inside of the top and bottom pins. So the key cuts are both dimple cuts and sometimes little protrusions in the middle. So the pins track in and out. There's pins tracking inside of each other. It's a very, very secure design. It's a brilliant idea. It's a brilliant idea, but in theory, theory and practice are different things. This is what if you were to just kind of look down a lock at a Multilock it kind of looks like. You can see you have your pin stacks. You can see kind of protruding. We have pins inside of pins. And most people say, oh, that's a brilliant design. You know, you've got this Multilock and that's so... that must be hell to pick. I can't imagine something like that. Well, it's actually a little something like this. Did anyone catch the difference? This is what people think a Multilock is. This is pretty much how a Multilock works. Can anyone notice what is the difference? Yes. The top pins are not independent of one another. They are a related system. They interact with each other in ways that were not completely foreseen. Can anyone tell me... let's see... This is a really hard question, so this is definitely going to be worth this will be an issue of Frack, a Red Bull, a lighter, and I think we're going to do maybe a hard drive. I have a lot of old hard drives that are too small for me, but maybe I forgot to erase, you know, Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Monty Python or something I was storing on them. I don't know. Might be there. Can anyone tell me the name of the student from Rampamoe College in New Jersey You already got your hand up? Jesus. You have to pronounce his name correctly, who published an exploit based around this attack? Close, but no, not pronounced right. I saw a hand back here. No guess? Who was it over here? Pardon me? No, it was not Eric Murdoch. I saw a few hands. Was there anybody I feel like... I'm missing out. I know your hand must have been up. Eric Michaud is the correct answer. Way to go, man. Yeah, Eric is at WhatTheHack which unfortunately is running at the same time as Defcon this year. See that red box? Take a look in there and maybe grab a hard drive to your liking. I think FAT, probably. Probably FAT file system. The little red, the master, the box that says hard drives. Yeah, the Michaud attack... I'm sorry, what? What's that? You want to help me out, Sandy? How would we describe this? This is Mouse, everybody. She's a member of Tool USA, so she's here with us. Would we call this an exploit or a proof or what would you think this is? Yeah, this is a tool that we have worked and I'd probably snap it apart, but giving enough time, I can keep cutting these and eventually we do get them to work. Yeah, Ken Presson, the guy from Peterson. Remember I mentioned Peterson, the vendor. He is, this is definitely on his radar and he's like, oh man, I got some ideas for this. Yeah, we've engaged with Multilock is aware that people are working on this. They've acknowledged that there is something to this. Yeah, they do love to send out letters, don't they? The trick behind, I mean, you can, most of you, you can see what's going on here. You'll probably see already where this is going. Typically, the pin stack would function, this inner pin would be pushed never that high up, because you've got to picture a dimple key. You're not going to have a dimple that's little and like this big spike in the middle. So dimple keys usually don't push the inner pin very high. That doesn't mean you couldn't stick something in there to push that pin very high. And if you over lift that pin stack, the Michaud attack just completely moves everything out of the way. It's a very, very elegant discovery. And we're very proud of him. How old is Eric? He's like... He looks 15, but he's in his 20s. He's a really bright kid. So, way to go, Eric. Keep this on your radar and see if Peterson starts selling anything about it. Back to other locks that are less secure, and everyone knows are less secure. Tubular locks. Tubular locks, you guys must have seen tubular locks here and there in life, right? How many people have seen a tubular lock? Yes. From the last talk, we mentioned the kryptonite itself. Kryptonite tubular lock, one of the best ones that people will probably be familiar with. My parents' old house, the alarm system was a tubular lock. When tubular keys first came out, they were revered as this breakthrough because, yeah, they're a very new design. No one had, you know, wow, what is this shape? This is neat. I guess you couldn't cut this very easily. Yes, it's harder to cut a tubular key bidding. But you have a lock that's literally staring you in the face with all of the pins. It lends itself very well to a lot of experimentation and fiddling because you can independently work on these pin stacks right there. This is called a tubular pick. And a tubular pick has all these little fingers that can track up and down and actually simulate the different cut depths on a tubular key. If I were to, let's say, find a tubular lock somewhere in my belongings. Well, I'll do the crappiest one I have just because it's on the top of the pile. Everyone's seen these before. These are your basic, you know, cheap-ass, not-allowed-to-be-sold-in-stores-anymore kryptonite-type lock. The way a tubular lock works, you take the pick, stick it right in the lock, and wiggle it. And... Hang on, I've got to give a little more tension on my... The problem with this lock is I've beat it to hell because of another exploit that we'll talk about in a moment. Yeah, I think this lock... I think this lock is completely destroyed. I was going to buy a new one, but you really... You've got to give them credit. They did pull all these out of the stores. You can't get this lock anymore. So, yeah, this lock is beyond all hope. Let me grab a different one. Because of the public... Well, why aren't they selling them in stores? Let's jump to this then. This is why, if you don't have... This is a kryptonite Evolution 2000 lock. I used to use this to lock up my bike around here in Seattle until I found out that you can take a big pen and just remove the top and just pop it into the lock and just do a couple little quick twists and turns and voila! Your lock and your bike is completely compromised. So, way to go, kryptonite. That's why they don't sell it in stores anymore. Does Peterson sell big pens was the question. I don't know. Yeah, the original design, the spring tensions were really bad and it was just... That's what they were talking about in the last talk. Right, the modern tubular lock, the gentleman points out, is usually designed by Ace. There's the Ace and the Ace 2 even. Those are much better quality tubular locks. They have high tension springs, variable tension springs. You can't just jam a pen in there. I saw two hands, one and then two. Not really possible to use a shim just because traditionally tubular locks, you're not spinning something. You're actually, those are key retaining locks because of the little notch in the... well, you really can't see that. If you've ever used a tubular lock, you know you can't just leave the key in it. You have to completely pull it back around to get the key out. So there's no reason for any type of spring mechanism to be a part of the secure latch. It's all one solid piece. You really can't shim them easily. And there was one hand back here. Same question. Okay, yeah, you really can't shim them. However, if, you know, you have something that can't be defeated by a ballpoint pen, which is, you know, your Ace type design, you can get this lock pick, which is, this one's by Southerd. Other people do make them. These are really beautiful, beautiful devices. I'm just gonna make that nice and flat and flush, so that kind of simulates a, you know, you could actually see the key cuts would be of different depths. Those bidding cuts. And this simulates, let me flush it back out, this would be a tubular key that's not cut at all. If I give this a little tension, and I stick this in the lock, and I wiggle it some, and now that's open. You can see the, this is a drawback, it draws a bar back out here. This is actually a gun lock. Not only have I opened the lock, but, I have the bidding of that key, and you could take this to a locksmith shop, and get a replacement key cut, very very easily. I don't recommend that anyone walk into a locksmith shop with a pick. All the picks that you can find, usually of this nature, they come with what's called a decoder key. It's a little key that just has cuts on it of different depths, and you kind of, it's like a gauge, you go, okay, one, two, and you can actually you could walk into a lock shop and say, I need a seven pin tubular key that's bidded out at three, six, three, four, two, seven, blah, blah, blah. And they'll just punch it in the machine, and cut it out. I saw a couple hands on that one. This, talk about, talk about wonderful, wonderful girlfriends. This was a birthday gift from my girlfriend right before ShmooCon. So, this is about an $80 pick. And you got, you know, everyone else and their brother gives you, like, sweaters and, you know, oh, here's some crap you don't really care about. And I'm like, I wonder what this is going to be. And I broke this out. I just, I wanted to cry. Question over here. I'm sorry. Oh, I understand what you were saying. He asked if, while I was picking this, was I actually manipulating the heights? No, you don't have to actually force these to do anything. What happens is, much like with a pin stack that we were working before, if I put, let me see, if I put torque on this, it's not all seven pins that are binding at once. Only one pin stack is going to really bind. So by torquing, jiggling and jiggling around, the binding pin stack will start to push down, down, down, down, down on a feeler until it's at the right height. When it's at the right height, that's no longer binding. The next one will bind and so on and so forth. So all I have to do is jiggle it and they'll eventually all track down to the right height and they do it all by itself. Question here, behind you actually. I've never seen a tubular blank. I think they're just, you know, just tubes and What's that? They're blank. Yeah, so yeah, they have the little notch that keeps it seated in the lock. But you can just cut them with regular tools. There was, hang on, you and then you. And am I missing, are there hands on the outside that I'm not seeing? No? Alright. Go ahead, sir. Are they all the same diameter? The question was, are they all the same diameter? I think diameter, yes, but there are two main systems of pinning. There's seven pin and eight pin. There's actually two picks that Souther offers. I think there's a bonus if you buy them both at once. It's like a savings. There's the seven pin. By the way, everything is seven pin. I've never seen an eight pin in my life. There's also something called seven pin offset, which the eight pin pick will work in a seven pin offset lock. But, yeah, unless you are like a locksmith by profession or want to become one, just start off buying this one. The seven pin is going to be all you play with for everything you can find. There was another question over here. Yes and no. The gentleman raises a point. He said, almost all of what we're talking about, especially as far as pin tumbler picking, excuse me, is based upon misalignment and imperfection in the locks manufacturing process. And he said, you know, if you had a very precise alignment, you wouldn't need a lot of these other security features, would you? Yes and no. You can get very precise machining. And in fact, all of your well-made locks, the ones I was talking about, like the ASA locks, the Medicos, just by name, they're all engineered very, very well. They're engineered to much higher tolerances. But you guys know there's a difference between math on paper and math in real life. There's never anything that's 100% perfectly flushed down to like a micron level. There's always going to be some intolerance introduced into the equation. That's why high security pins are still very valid to have. But yes, so yeah, you can have them, some are better than others. High security locks will be better engineered. There was another hand somewhere. Yes. Pardon me? Oh, I'm sorry. Welcome from across the pond. The question was, how did the biro trick work? And for those of us yanks, that was how did the ballpoint pen work? That worked just because the spring tensions were so bad and because the pins could seat all the way in, if you just jammed, you know, you just jam a ballpoint pen in there, it smashes all the springs, all the pins, completely out of the way, and it just forces the pins way up inside the lock. Both the, Miles, am I getting this right? Both the driver and the keypin go completely yeah, both the driver and keypin go completely out of the plug and they seat way up inside the chamber so the plug can rotate freely. People also notice that if you pull the pen out, if you're doing that to a lock sometimes the pins are all screwed up then and you screw your lock up. So you need a pick like this to get it back working again. You had a question, ma'am? Very good question. The question was, if you want to get high security pins in your locks, either to practice with them or conceivably to secure your home with them, he's, you know, Viros is mentioning, where do you find these? I don't see them anywhere. That's because I'm assuming you're talking about in stores, you've never found them. Right. Because we're Americans and our stores just don't carry very good locks because they sit on the shelf. No one buys them. People are like, 70 bucks for this sucker? This is 12! Hell with that! Yeah, you buy them on the internet. Look on the internet. Any reputable vendor will actually say, you know, features high secure pins features this, that, and the other. It's not a feature that they want to be secretive about. It's a benefit to the lock. So they're going to advertise it. Oh, I understand. Right. You don't, right, he said, do you know if they're a spool pin or a mushroom pin or a serrated pin? Different vendors tend to have pins they like to use. For instance, you know, we talked about the Asa, that was a spool pin lock. We'll talk a little later about American brand padlocks. They are big on serrated pins. But, vendor by vendor, you can kind of get a feel for it. I don't know if there's a nice reference guide out there for who has what. But, you know, just break one apart and see what's in it. There was a question. Oh, very good point. Very good point. We'll talk about this in the URLs later when I give you a bunch of links. Lockpicking101.com would probably have that answer. It's a great, great user base of really knowledgeable people. Anything that I don't cover or you want to know more about, either talk to me later or check them out. I'm going to mention them again in a bit. Let's see, were there any other questions at the moment? The problem with a blank is that it might not, I'm trying to think if this was the thing, it might not grab onto... The question was, if the ballpoint pen works would just a regular blank have worked? Right, oh, alright. I understand. Part of part of the pins fitting in, let me see. I see what's going on. When you have key pins that are still in these grooves, you know, typically you'd have a driver pin stick out and the key pin would seat in this. Oh, Laz! There you are. How are you, man? Where were you? Stuck in an airplane. Oh man, sorry to hear that. Usually you would have key pins in those grooves. They are helping to turn that center post. With the pins being all pushed out of there, there's nothing for a blank to grab onto. That's why the plastic pen works so well. It actually grabs the post because it uses the plastic misshapes. It has a little friction and it will help spin. That's why that happens. Alright. You've got a smaller fucking screen. Are you going to sit up here and bitch? What the hell, man? So that was tubular locks. There we go, moving slowly forward. Yes? Pardon me? The question was about Kensington's, the ones that you see on a lot of laptops and security locks like that. They say, was it a different diameter? I don't know. I've never... They're the same? Okay, yeah. You can big pen those as well. Okay. Alright. Oh, we've got more questions. What's that? Apparently cardboard from a toilet paper roll works very well on a Kensington lock. Alright, we've got to move on. We're already in the second hour here. Alright. Moving along. Bump keying. We were mentioning bump keying earlier briefly when I said Barry was bumping his ASSA lock and you can sometimes bump dimple locks. Bump keying is a technique used to quickly spring a lock open with a specially cut key. It's called a bump key. It's also called a 999 key. For a Red Bull, can anyone tell me why it's a 999 key, where that name comes from? I saw your hand. Very, very good. The answer is key bidding has numbers like 0 is no cut at all, 1, 2, 3, the cut depth. A bump key is made by cutting all the bidding down to the deepest depths or the 9. So it's a 999 key. Bump keys work... Bump keys work very, very similar to the way pick guns work. So let's cover pick guns very briefly and you'll see why bump keys are very, very similar. Basic physics, guys. If we have a billiard balls on the table, what's going to happen if I shoot this cue? Yes. 3 is not really going to go anywhere. 2 is going to go flying. Newtonian physics at its finest. Pick guns work the same way. Pick guns, just a long blade down the barrel. It's tension with a spring and a trigger that flicks this. Pick guns work by smashing on the bottom pins. Hopefully, if you get it all lined up just right, you need a little practice, but you can smash them all at the same time. And if you're lucky, all the top pins will jump up and you can turn the lock very quickly before they have a chance to spring back down. But pick guns, besides being expensive, bulky, a pain in the ass to carry around, a very hard thing to explain what the hell they are if you get asked, there's a cheaper, easier, smaller, and very simple solution that can replicate this same physics. Thank you for this, by the way. It's a retribution for a previous beer bought. Laz and I first actually met, was it here at, was it 10 or 11? I don't know, I was drunk. Laz was up on stage and he was picking away and he wanted beer and I brought one up and I think I said something about, yeah, I saw you at Hope and I learned to pick. He's like, come up here and show me, man. I'm trying to embarrass my ass and I finally picked one for you, though. By the way, you're a dick. Why am I a dick? I was sitting over in speaker registration and I saw a video of me and Barry on stage and you're like, by the way, that's Barry, you didn't fucking mention me. Well, I'm sorry, it says your name in the link, Barry and Laz. Thanks. Alright, so simulating a pick gun with a bump key works as follows. Take a key that was designed for your lock. Notice I didn't say cut for your lock. It doesn't have to be the right bidding. It just has to be the right keyway that fits down into your lock. Take that and cut all the bidding notches to the deepest level. That's where you get 999. Now I'm going to be burping from this friggin' beer. You can do this with a key machine. Go to your local hardware store and be like, can you cut it to 999? The kid who's making 550 isn't going to ask you why. Or you can do this with a Dremel. You can do this with a lot of different tools. I've hand cut them before and they will work. Take this key and insert it into your lock. Not all the way. You'll actually feel as these ridges are going past the pins you'll feel it click, click, click as it goes in. Make sure it's one pin stack out. What's that? Yeah, put it all the way in and just click it out by one. Next thing you want to do is put a little bit of torque on this key and just smash the hell out of it. You come at it with a force. It bangs across all those ridges and you can see they connect. Hopefully you'll hit all of them at the same time and all those top pins will jump up. Yeah, you'll smash your hand a lot. It's just how that goes. One thing you often will get better luck with when you make a bump key, if you cut the shoulder back just a hair farther than it should this makes life a little bit easier. It gives a little bit more wiggle room when you're bumping it and knocks them a little bit harder. Not much of a difference but it does help. This is a kind of what we'll call one grade up from master. This is a fortress lock and this is a key that originally went to let me see if I have this one right originally went to a different fortress lock but I've cut it way down. Now if I put this in this will not open this lock but if I pull it out by one I'm going to try to do this so everyone can work with the camera here. The trick is a little and a lot. A little bit of torque and a lot of a little bit of bang. You actually want the sensation of the key slipping out of your fingertips as it's being knocked by the lock. There you go. You shouldn't have tried the second time, should you? I was impressed the first time. I'm pulling it too hard because I don't want to smash my thumbs. Pussy. Here, you do it then. Shit, I don't do that. That's why I have both colors for you. So that's bump keying. But there is a... I'm sorry, question. You're a brighter man than I. The question is why can't, you know, you just put... Yeah, put a torque tool in there or on the key. Yeah, you probably could do that. I'm not thinking clearly apparently. My thumb thanks you for that. This is sort of the dirty bump method, if you will. It's not that sophisticated. There is an even better bump method that the guys in Tool in the Netherlands came up with. I'm sorry, there's a question. Where was it? Left side. Not exactly. Raking, I didn't even cover raking that much. We'll talk about it in the hands-on. Raking is just beating up the pins independently, trying to just catch a bunch of shear lines at once on a crappier lock. Bump keying actually is intended to hit all the pins simultaneously. Oh, master wafer. Yeah, that can happen. The question was, we'll talk about master pinning in a little bit. Master pinning sometimes involves very small pins inserted or actually wafer shaped pins inserted into the stack with a big gap introduced like that. Can those flip and bind up? Yes, that conceivably can happen. It's not the most common thing because the gap is only there for a second. But I imagine it could happen. A little addendum to that. If that is happening, it's because the locksmith didn't follow the manufacturer's tolerances or the lock is wearing out because they have specific minimum wafer sizes so that doesn't happen. Because that used to happen a tremendous amount with people using too small of a wafer. There you go. Thank you. Shit, I got beer, man. I'm running out. Alright. Now, with respect to the I said that was like the dirty bump technique there is a really nice bump technique that's been published by the guys in Tool. It's called the Minimal Movement Bump. They actually have a white paper about it. This involves taking an existing bump key and at two different points heavily modifying this bump key even further. You can shave off probably about a quarter to a half of a millimeter from the shoulder and a half of a millimeter or more from the tip. Now this is a very, very unique modified key. If you have it in the lock you can even squeeze it a little deeper now because you've shaved the key down. And you notice that as you squeeze it in the spring pressures from the driver pins up top will actually kind of kick it back out a millimeter or so. This enables you to deliver a lot of force right where you want it very precisely without smashing across whole rows of pins. You come at this. They have a tool they call a tomahawk. I've seen them whack right at it. It comes right into beautiful force, delivered real clean and I've seen them bump really sophisticated like Barry mentioned. Remember I said the geographical weakness on that V10? He can make a bump key out of a V10 because the top part of the bidding will bump. The bottom part of the bidding on the side bar just does its job normally. He bumps his V10 that way. He's bumped multi-locks that way I've heard. I can't imagine how, but I guess the force just gets delivered because we talked about how the interactive pins work. That's a very powerful attack. It can, by the way, be bad for the lock. If you have a family heirloom or something and you're like, I'm going to play with bump keying. Don't do it if you care about the lock because I've destroyed locks doing this, especially if you do the dirty method. It'll misshape the pins. It'll really beat things up. I've had locks that just don't even work anymore because I've bumped them to death. We can cover that a little. The question was, doesn't this leave clear indications that this has happened? There's forensic evidence. We can talk about that in a bit. I've got to keep moving through though. We've got a lot of good stuff. Wait, yes, question. What keeps the key pins? Well, they can't fall down anymore because they're in the keyway as far down as they go. And they're not going to jump up because we're transferring physical force through them. So they're just going to sit right where they are. They're not going to go up, they're not going to go down. They have nowhere to go. There's spring tension behind them so they're not staying suspended. You have a half of a split second where they're up there and you're just catching that right moment. They're not staying up there permanently. You're just hitting it and they stay there for a split second like throwing a ball in the air. And while it's upright, just at the right height is when you grab it. Alright. Let me cut you off for half a second. General disclaimer, I don't know if you did this, I'm sorry I was registering. You mentioned you can break locks. Don't practice on your front door for a number of reasons. One, because you may break the lock, but more importantly because your neighbors will call the cops because they don't know who you are. If you're going to practice on any door, try a back door or whatnot, but still you're going to get your ass locked out of your house. So just go buy a $10 lock from Home Depot to practice. Very, very good point. So yes, this can be bad for the lock. I've destroyed locks doing this. Some of my locks, I've had to try to lubricate them to open them now because they're just broken and about lubrication. The question for a Red Bull... When, if ever, do you use WD-40 in a lock and why or why not? Whoa, that was a lot of... I think it was grayish blue shirt here. Half right answer. Get you a lighter. Come on up for a lighter. Oh, well it's a little bit... You're kind of on the right track, but I'm looking for a solid answer on when, if ever, you can use WD. I've got a guy down here with the glasses. Well, his answer was never, and I'm saying that's not a completely accurate answer. Well, you're all right around... Basically, a lot of people are hitting this point. The main point I wanted to make... Hang on here. My guy's in the front. Just throw some lighter at these people with their hands up. Because everyone kind of has it. Keep your hands up. I know who you are. That, hey, extra hands just went up. The point I wanted to make is WD-40 is not good... You can... You got them? These guys? All right. Start ripping with people's heads, dude. WD-40... We got a guy... Yes. WD-40... Did you get one? Was that a question? Very, very good. He's got the full... You actually... You get the Red Bull. Yes. All right. We got to keep moving. Here's the... Oh, man. We're really dying on time. The deal is... Well, that's cool. But we got a lot to cover. I added a lot of shit. WD-40... Anybody who's in the service, especially the Navy, maybe you can tell me, what does WD-40 stand for? Water displacement is exactly right. Water displacer 40 was a formula designed to seep into maritime situations, to seep into all the cracks, to dry out in there, to actually make this little waxy buildup to keep water out of machinery so it didn't rust and corrode when it was in there. It was not meant as a lubricant. It's kind of the antithesis of a lubricant. Yes, it's greasy when it goes in, but it doesn't stay that way. There's essentially three kinds of lubricants out there. There's wet lubricant, dry lubricant, and drying lubricant. And everyone who's tuned in on the APTV system just right now, they're saying, what the hell talk is this? Looking at the... Did they move the schedule around? Different situations call for different products. If you have any precision mechanism, like, for instance, locks, you want to use exclusively a wet or oil-based lubricant, something that is going to go in wet and stay wet. I use gun oil on most of my really, really high-end locks because it'll not foul the thing up. Dirt and fouling can get into oil, and it can gum things up if you live in a really harsh environment. If you have, let's say, a lock out in the desert somewhere, Las Vegas, any locals, maybe you want to use graphite powder in a lock like that because it'll go in dry and stay dry. It'll help, you know, it won't get too fouled up and gummed up. That's right, it won't freeze. But just know that WD-40 will attract dirt and fouling. It'll trap it up. The only time, by the way, the answer, the full answer I was looking for, the only time you use WD-40 is if the lock is jammed and you don't care about the lock. If, you know, you've gone over to your aunt's house for Christmas and she says, oh, I think that's the trees out in the shed, the decorations. And you go out there and it's a lock that someone hasn't opened since 1974 and it's rusted to hell. Yeah, you can WD-40 it or you can soak it in kerosene and maybe it'll open and then you throw the lock away because it's not, that's not good for the future health of the lock. Yes? LPS makes a good product? What is LPS? Okay. So yeah, he meant, the gentleman mentions industrial lubricants, high-end industrial lubricants are good. Yeah, Google for LPS or check it out, Molly Coat, those are also good. Let's talk about something that was referenced in the last talk. Firearm locks. How many, we got a lot of libertarian type people here at DEF CON, how many people are gun owners? You don't have to raise your hands if you don't want to. How many people lock your guns in some fashion? What I'd like to see, maybe you don't have kids in the house, you don't have kids in your house, then you lock your door. Do super soakers count? We're going to talk about something that's very serious to me right now, just because it's a very important issue that people understand, the severe weaknesses of some locks, what they're designed to do, and what they're not designed to do. I would like a volunteer, I know we have people on the goon squad, I know in fact Vairosa, you have time in the service. Stand up for a second, man. I'm going to use Lou. Everyone, this is Vairosa. Come on, stand up for the guy. Vairosa has served, so he's going to be our authority for today. I'd like, and this is for everyone's comfort, he's going to inspect a stage prop that I have that looks like a weapon, but we're going to take him at his authority that it is not a functioning firearm. I want everyone to know this, I want everyone to be very... Yeah, you haven't anything to drink, have you? Is everyone comfortable with his authority as opposed to you physically inspecting it yourself? If not, we can actually have someone else who is even more well known, if you'd like a priest or someone to come up. But is everyone okay with Vairosa? Alright. Yeah, it really pisses off the TSA when you put that in your carry-on, by the way. Yeah, FedEx. So yeah, it should be a filed down firing pin, the barrel's solid. Solid barrel will pretty much do the job. Yeah. Would you care to certify that this is a non-firing weapon? I didn't see that it's non-firing. There's nothing in it. It's completely cored up. It's a solid barrel. I don't know if you can see... Dude, don't worry. Alright. Well, I'm just very serious about this. Thank you. Thank you. How many people have ever used a trigger lock that looks like this? I'm very pleased that not too many people have. When I was... God, I want to say I was 12 or 13, I got an air gun for my birthday, and a lock like this is what was installed on it. I'm going to guess I was probably about 14 when I figured out how easy it was to bust this up. And my parents were very proud that I actually was just so proud of the discovery. I went and showed them right away. They're like, wow, that's so neat. This goes in our closet now. This is your typical trigger lock. Most vendors of trigger locks, there are two popular designs of trigger locks. There are bad, and there's colossally bad. Pretty much everyone explores these two designs of locks. This is just in the bad category. Can everyone see? I feel bad. This camera is so awful. It's not bad. No, you can see pretty good. Alright, we'll do what we can. So this is on. It's installed the way it should go. I'm going to take this tool and I can't really see. I'm going to have to... I've got to move my camera so I can see what I'm doing a little better and get my hands in it. It's upside down, but you guys can live with that. Oh, am I out of frame? For anyone who thinks he's out of frame, he's shoving a big-ass piece of metal in there. Yeah, we don't have to applaud on that one. This is a piece of wire, people. This is a piece of fish snake. There's a question? I wouldn't recommend trying it on a loaded weapon, that's for sure. Right, you're never supposed to lock a loaded weapon, people are pointing out to me. Side note for you though, on that specific weapon, no. On others, maybe. Why in the hell is this possible? Once again, the golden rule, the... I'm sorry. Yeah, keep shouting at me if I'm out of frame, because I want you guys to see everything. The golden rule of, you know, the triumph and peril of our capitalistic system is that the marketplace will regulate itself. One of the marketplace forces is convenience, users' convenience. How does this lock work? Well, this lock just has a pillar down the middle, as you can see, and a bar that rotates. Now this bar... I wonder if I could focus this a little more. Nope, that's worse. I'll take my word for it. This bar, you can kind of see, has little teeth, notched teeth. Now these teeth are exposed, and now these teeth are hidden. Those teeth completely engage with teeth that you can barely see down a steel plate, down this barrel here. This steel plate is spring-loaded. Why is that? The man points it out. So that if I want to lock this, and I don't have the key in it, I can just slide it together. Do you know how fucking ridiculously simple it would be to make this steel plate solid? Just make the bastard part of... you wouldn't even need the spring. Just, you know, oh, I need to turn my key to lock it and secure it. I'm out of frame again. I can't fathom why it was designed this way. But it was. This is not... This is nothing. This is just a joke. I made this in no time. I made this type of pick when I was 12. They mentioned in the last talk, this information is out there. How many of you have ever read about this? How many of you have ever heard about this? How many of you still use a lock, you know, a gun lock like this? Nobody talks about this, because the information just doesn't get out. I hope that if at least one of you goes home and tells somebody, maybe someone will stop using one of these, because it's really bad. It's just a really bad design. In the colossal... I'm sorry, we had a hand. All right. Who manufactures the blue lock was a question. They are somebody I've beat up enough on on this talk already. They're kind of litigious and I'm not going to say who makes it. Go to any gun shop in America. They're going to have a whole rack of them. You can see who makes it. Somebody said it. These are the, just included for your edification, these are the colossally bad category. What the hell is that? I don't even know what this is. But it's not a freaking lock. You can beat this with a paper clip that you have to pop a CD out of a jam drive. And we saw this is a slide lock. This is what I was showing you earlier when I was playing with tubular pins. A slide lock is a very nice idea. It's a little more secure in that it locks the weapon completely out of battery, so it can't be engaged, fired, anything. But, you know, I showed you this one. Great concept, but it's a really shitty tubular lock that's employing the mechanism. Put a better lock on the end and maybe put a Medeco on the end of that and you might have a pretty decent lock. Some people just use cable. You can secure firearms with cable. This is a very secure solution. Make sure you use a coated cable so it doesn't rip up the innards of your gun. Also, be aware that the majority of cable you're going to buy like this, this is going to be an Astacular 2000 series lock somehow. They just come really bad. I don't know why. And let's face it, this is not the best solution. It's a very inelegant solution. In general, why do I have this section in the talk now? Everyone... I think people here tend to be a little more clueful than the general public, so most of you should know this already. These are not security devices. These are persuading or dissuading devices. These are designed to prevent very little children from fouling around. Oh, what's under daddy's drawer? Here, they'll look at this. These are designed to... These are locks made by children for children, basically. This will not thwart criminal behavior. This will not thwart a curious teenager. Many people, I don't always get agreement with this, but I'm betting this crowd will understand that if you have kids and you have guns, you show them what the hell they are when they're very young. You teach them to respect them, you teach them not to play with them, and then you lock them the hell away from them. But people who just want to, like, no, don't tell them anything, that's not the best solution. What's up? Oh, sorry, question. That's a valid... If you have a very easily field-strippable weapon, just strip it out, take the firing pin out, put that in a secure place. Well, the man makes a point down here. Someone else could acquire another one and put it back in. So, you know, you guys are all smart enough, you can come up with solutions, but just keep this on your radar. One question and then we gotta keep it on... Yes. Those are the under desk type models, and yeah. Yeah, he mentioned the Colt Corporation, and I do love their weapons. They make a very nice box that it just has, it's almost like a hand pad, and you can feel the buttons, and if you know the order, you program the order in, you can just feel it pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, and then you can, you know, open it up. Any type of safe, or any type of box that you put a gun in is much better than just throwing a lock on the gun. Yeah, there's a lot of better gun locks out there that we can talk about some more. We're good, we still have like 45 minutes because we're rolling into the next half hour, so we can, we're still doing alright. Quick ones on handcuffs. We're, you know, more for the law enforcement crowd, I guess, guns to handcuffs. Anybody who doesn't know how handcuffs work, this is gonna be a real real brief overview. Inside of a handcuff looks something like this. You have a little ratcheting arm, and this paw that spins around has teeth on it that the arm engages. It's why you can spin the paw one way and not the other. When you stick a key in the lock, and you turn that key, it just lifts up the arm. That's what the inside of a handcuff looks like. You can see how it's, you can jam almost anything in a handcuff and just try to, you know, flip the thing. And besides, a handcuff key is a dollar, so it's not that hard to do. You can shim hand, you can do a whole lot with handcuffs that are kind of outside of the scope of this. We can, I don't have any to play with, so if anybody else does, we can play with them later. Um... That could have been interpreted differently, I guess. Could anyone tell me for a Red Bull... I gotta clear some of this out of the way. What is the little pin for on the back of a hand? I saw a hand right here. Everything alright? Hang on, yeah, he got it. The answer is, what is the little pin for? It is a double lock mechanism on a handcuff. The little hole that's on the back of a handcuff, that most people don't realize it's there for a reason, if you stick the pin in there on the back of a key, it'll actually put a bar in that prevents the pawl from I'm sorry, the ratchet from moving at all. So it can't get any tighter, it can't get any looser, you can't shim it. To open it, you see it's actually a two-step process to open it. Yeah, yeah, double lock. In fact, anybody who's ever been in custody, maybe in a street protest or something, and they over-tighten you on purpose, but no, I don't have anything negative to say about that. They're supposed to double lock you all the time, because it's actually for your own safety. So the cuffs, if you wriggle or you sit in the back of the car, they don't get tighter on you when you're in them. Most officers don't do that, and it's, you know, I assume you should. Does anyone here a cop? Do you do that? Anybody in here who's a law enforcement officer do a double lock? So we spot the fed. Yeah, they should. Frankly, it's funny, but that's true. Most of my friends who go to protests will request that. They'll say, you know, I request, please make sure you double lock this, sir. And so they don't get, because if you've ever friggin' been cuffed at a protest, you're going to be thrown in a bus somewhere for like six hours, and they're going to take two more hours to process you. If you're turning blue in the hands, it sucks really bad. Yes. Yeah. Yes, the gentleman makes the point that cooperating tends to, you'll be treated a lot better when they're locking you up. Oh, we're going to get a demo? All right. Once again, Agent X, everybody, let's thank him for doing this. Have you done this? Never slammed them against a table. Yeah! The trick is that, like you talked about all the mechanisms inside, you've got to whack this, and it'll just slide. And most of the cops are really good about keeping their kit well-oiled. There's even special handcuff oils. So, you have to whack it somewhere, which you'll see magicians do, is they'll put like a little metal piece of something in their pants, and they'll whack it against that. But usually you can find something to do it against. I find the hardest part is getting them in front. It'll kill you. That's really dangerous. I've gotten myself, by myself, in my apartment, with these, at the end of my seat. It's incredibly painful. Why were you wearing a thong? I wasn't wearing a thong. Have you taken that off? Yeah, yeah. He's showing whereabouts he whacked it, according to the request. Here's the handcuffs. And this is the pin they set right there. You can see it right there. So, what I'm doing is unsetting the pin. They have to turn the key both ways, so what you do is just go, whack! And it comes right down, and then you can shim it. Don't shim it too much, or it's really painful. If you do that while in custody, you're fucked, by the way, unless you get away. Don't fuck around. We're having fun talking about a lot of this, but more than anything, don't be that cutesy guy who's getting out of the squad car at the station. Yeah, Mr. Face, meet Mr. Pavement. It's funny if your friends are cops to fuck with them, though. It really is. By the way, if you show this to the cops, it freaks them out. The main reason I learned this is not because I ever have trouble with the law. It's because this is really a mental thing. People are like, I can't get out of handcuffs. It's impossible. I can show you how to do it. It's not that hard. It's kind of a gateless barrier thing. Give it a try. Come to the THF talk at 4 in the tent. We need your money. And we're going to have a whole... Once we wrap this up, we're going to move it into the contest area where the lockpick contest is. We're going to do a whole hands-on session. I'll take as much time as you guys want. I'm going to have a lot of kits you can play with. I ask that you give me $20-$25. And if you return it, you can have the $25. But I don't want them to walk away. A lot of locks. We're going to have a good time. So come on in if we run out of time here for questions. We'll do it in there. Can you carry a lockpick in your check bag? I'll talk about that in the legal section. Do you have a legal section? Dude, you really did add a lot of shit. Alright, we've really got to fly through. We've got about a half hour left. And I have like 150 slides. So we're maybe two-thirds of the way through. Really quick. Wafer locks. Just going to cover what they are. They're not that sophisticated. Oh, what happened? Is there another cooler talk than me? Imagine when we do the topless section for all you guys leaving. Alright, let's just blow through a lot of this now. Wafer locks. If you look at a lock, notice how this lock, there's no upper mechanism up here. This lock just kind of cuts off right here. There's no space where a pin stack could be hiding. There's no room up here for springs and pins. This is an entirely different type of mechanism. It's called a wafer mechanism. They're popular in very compact places. A lot of filing cabinets, a lot of display racks and things use wafer locks. Also automobiles, but they're more sophisticated. Not alone. If you look at a wafer from the front, and you cut on into it, this is the inside of a wafer lock, essentially. And there's stacks of these wafers in a row. The wafers have to be raised to the right height, and they'll clear. It's not that difficult. There are complex wafers that are double-sided. You can see if you raise them too high, they won't go. Too low, they won't go. And all they'll have to do is just have this rectangle cut in different places on the wafer. So that's how the key cutting works. Wafers are a really interesting sort of mix. They're very unsophisticated, but they don't lend themselves very well to most picking techniques. You can kind of pin-by-pin pick them, right? But most people just use what's called jigglers. And you just jam it in, bang it all around, and hope for the best. And you get about as good a result as you would get if you just tried to individually pick it. Yeah, raking, jiggling, the unsophisticated bang attack ends up a lot better. Alright, still moving along. Rotating disc locks. Not going to talk too much about these, because I can't pick them. I don't even own some. Anything you want to say? Or should we just show Barry and you doing a video? Show a video? I was drunk that day. If you have any questions... There's this brand called Abus. As a side note... Yeah, so this is the fucking video of me on the other side. He didn't tell me. Schedule, if you look at your schedule, there were two talks today. First is two hour intro, then another hour on high security stuff specifically. Due to some scheduling conflicts, the high security stuff was cut down to about a half an hour. And Paul Graham will be coming and giving a speech. And we'll go through all that right before we're done. So just for anyone who has high security questions, hold it off until a little bit later. This is real quick though, just showing you. And they had on their website this very challenging text saying, nobody can pick our locks. No locksmith, no test institute, no burglars are ever known to pick our locks. And this is actually the type of key... Okay. Okay. Don't you love when someone says it's impossible? Isn't that just so great when you prove them wrong? Okay. In focus. Hope everybody can see. In Germany, from my German lockpicking friends, I bought this tool. Nobody leave. And it's this tool. And it's called the Fall tool, because Mr. Fall made it. And it's a decoder pick. It picks the lock, but it also reads the lock. So you can make the key. Here you can see what pin you are picking. And here you can see the depth of the key. With this tool you can open the lock that they claimed on their website could not be picked. It was a real challenge for us to pick it. What they do with this lock is they have discs in the lock. There's no pins but discs. I'll just show you a few of these discs. I hope I'm in focus. Okay, well here you can see the discs that are inside. And here's the real notch. And they put some fake notches in as well. So when you start manipulating the lock you'll experience like it's in the right position. But it's actually not. And it took us quite a while to figure out how to actually pick this lock because of the false notches. And then Paul, Paul Crowell from Montelus, he found out that there's a technique that if you put the pick in the lock. Wow, that's a big thumb. Okay, now I'm at the first disc and I'm trying to feel the cuts. Here's one cut. Go to disc two. How many discs are usually in there? Like eight. I should have cut this video down, I apologize. It's possible to get a false cut. Now, what Paul found out about these false cuts is that they are actually just a little bit tighter. So what you do is you go to one disc. You feel hey, okay, it's getting. And you feel it's getting again. And you just go for the widest you just go from one point of the cut to the other. And the widest is the right cut. And that actually was the trick. You have to feel the cuts. Okay, it's open. Applause. Abes made an improvement on the lock. So that this tool actually only works at a certain range of their locks. But the people from the German sport group they made a tool that beats that. At this moment there is a negotiation with Abes what to do. But when Abes they just had to take the text down and now you read our locks are really secure and very hard to pick. They don't say it's impossible to pick anymore. So that's rotating discs. Gotta really keep moving here. Alright, Master Keying Theory. Once again, how many people were in the last talk with Mark and Matt? So they mentioned that there was a big fuss about this. About, oh why are people disclosing these secrets? This has been known to people all over for a long time but it's just not talked about publicly that often. Master Locks, Master not the brand but you know Master Systems where there's different levels of escalated privilege. That's achieved by an additional wafer or an additional pin in the stack. It's a standard stack but it just has more pins. So a Master Pinned Lock might look something like this. I say might because there's a couple types of Mastering Conventions. For a Red Bull, a lighter and one of those hard drives do we have any more frack? No, no more frack. Can anyone tell me which of the two Master Pinning Systems which type this is? No one. Silence. Can you tell me? I don't know what the fuck the question means. I know a lot about this stuff. Well there are, this is what's called TPP or Total Position Progression Master. There's another type called RC or Rotating Constant which is a different algorithm. Oh well. I'll just give some, whoever can ask me cool questions at the end, I'll give you hard drives for that. Can I have one? Yeah, sure. Alright, so Master you can see how let's see, you might have a user with the lowest end of the totem pole is just called a change key. That's you know, just will open this one lock. But you might have a master key. If you have a key, now this is obviously very exaggerated. If you have a master cut key, these red pins are different. These shear lines are different throughout every lock. But the combination of a red and a green, and you know these aren't the real colors. The combination of the key pin and a master pin together, that is universal throughout all the locks in let's say one facility. So a master key would always be able to find this shear line no matter what lock was in what door. Whereas a person's change key would only work on their door. However, and many of us who had college dorms with master keyed systems played with this, there is a very, very simple way that if you have any key that works in the system, you can very easily make a master key. Sometimes. Would you like to know how? That's pretty much where it starts to go to. This is what happens. Let's say I have this key. And it opens my door to my, let's say dorm room. I take it out and I file this down. And I say, well that screws me because now I can't get into my room. Because you can see this is binding. Well I better keep filing it because I got to get my room somehow. Keep filing. Keep filing. Well it couldn't be higher because then you'd have a bottom pin that's completely out of the shear line. So it has to be lower. I see what you're saying. We're going to touch on that. There is a vendor that has two completely independent shear lines. Oh yeah. Bump keying and picking is easier on traditional master keyed systems because if you bump or you pick, you might pick half of these at a master height. The lock doesn't care. As long as you got shear lines going on, it's going to open. So yeah, if you have a really poorly engineered master pinned lock, you just... there it goes. But a very nice mastering type system, a very nice system is made by Best. And they're called SFIC. Small Format Interchangeable Core. Best is the most popular vendor. Some other vendors make them. These are very easily managed locks. It's very, very popular in large enterprise deployments when you have... you're trying to manage logistics and you're swapping out core. You're trying to manage who's who. The best lock or the SFIC, this figure eight shape, you can pull this whole core right out of the lock with the use of what's called a control key. This lock core, the pins are all sitting up here. There's a plug in here. The control key engages what's called a control sleeve. And you can see this sleeve has a big piece sticking out the side. If that sleeve is engaged, it's not going to pull out of the lock. But if you stick a control key in, turn it, and actually rotate the plug and the sleeve all at once, you can actually rotate the sleeve out of the way, pull the whole lock out, and then that can be... you can eject the pins, you can manage who's what, you can swap the cores very easily. They're very nicely made. This is also a disaster to try to pick with normal tools. If you just... you can see this is the brown is sort of the control sleeve. The light color is the plug. These shear lines are completely independent of one another. So you have the top shear, the bottom shear, and if you stick... this is a regular key, this would be a control key. If you stick a regular wrench in there, and you tension it, you're going to get binding all across these shear lines. So going in and trying to lift pins up, you're almost always going to not pick them all at the right shear line. You're going to catch some top, some low, you're not going to get it picked. Matt Blaze did the math on this. You know, the odds and the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly are not good. There is, however, manufactured by our good friends at Peterson, something called a finger wrench, which can stick in the lock... Let me actually switch up here. There is a tension wrench that has little fingers on it. It's hard to see. Can you see those? What that does is stick into the keyway, stick completely through the bottom of the keyway, because there's holes in the bottom. These holes don't actually serve a purpose in the lock's function. What they do is allow an ejector tool to stick into the lock if you want to pop the pins out and manage your pinning. But if you reach down through these holes, you can actually engage just the control sleeve. By just engaging the control sleeve, you're only going to tension the top shear line. Go in with a regular pick, set the pins, this is not as easy as it sounds, and then turn the control sleeve and eject the entire core. This is one example in what I'm going to wrap up at the end talking about the idea that disclosing these vulnerabilities helps us because... Oh, by the way, this is... Is anyone going to know this? This will be for... Question? I can't hear what you're saying. I don't really understand what you mean. Oh, it's not unlocked. You're just pulling the whole thing out. And you can look down and there's little pins that you can flip. Go ahead. Pardon me? Yeah, with the core out, you can eject the pins right out of it and get the entire... Not only that, if it's a mastered system, you can get the entire master scheme for the entire facility and so forth. Yes. Does anyone know who originally came up with this design for this finger wrench for a hard drive and a Red Bull? No, not Barry. Somebody at Peterson. Peterson makes these. No, not Ken. Good guess though. Anybody? If you don't know it, a guy named Jerry Finch. Very smart cat. Question? Right. Well, that's closer to the rotating constant system. I can talk about that. I'm going to get one more... I'm going to talk about that a little later. One more question and then we're going to try to fire through the rest of these and any more questions, if we run out of time, you're going to have the whole hands-on time to talk to me. Pardon? Yes. Very good point. This is why I'm so pleased with this information coming out. He mentions that there are new sleeve designs. In fact, Matt, when he first talked about this, he took his control sleeve and just cut the holes really huge in the bottom. You can still stick an ejector tool in there. It doesn't hurt, but there's nothing for the finger wrench to grab onto. And I believe best manufacture sleeves like this now. You mentioned that sometimes the control sleeves are in segments. So, yeah, the fact that this was publicly discussed means that it's safer for everyone now. And people are retrofitting their locks with better sleeves. It's a very, very good thing to talk about. Alright. Real quick, if you... How many people are enjoying this? How many people want to get more knowledge, more involved? Are you in the room? That's what I like to hear. There's plenty of books you can read. There's a lot of good places to go online. Let's shoot through some of these real fast. These slides are all online, by the way, and I'll tell you at the end so we can really flip through this. Two of the best books that I know of. Very intro, very beginners, very what-do-you-want-to-know-immediately-first is Steel Bolt Hacking by Douglas Chick. Doug was here last year. I don't know if he's here this year. His books probably are in the vendor area somewhere. The high end is written by the gentleman who spoke before us today. Mark Tobias wrote a book called Lock, Safes, and Security. That's called by many people the Lockpick Bible. It's just like the history of locks starting in ancient Egypt forward. It's a very, very good tome of knowledge. Online you can Google for the MIT Guide to Lockpicking. It's hosted at a few places. Some of the videos I'm showing you were cropped from Barry's presentations available here. There's a lot of informative pages. All these links, you don't have to scribble them right now. There's going to be all up at the end. There are sport-picking groups. There are hobbyist groups. There's a lot of fun things you can get involved with that way, with local people. Every con that you can go to now, DEFCON, back east, the HOPE cons, what the hack is happening now in Europe, there's sport-picking competitions usually. In fact, KyGoth and the DC719 crew are running that this year again. They do a great job of it. There's groups. I mentioned Barry's group, TOOL. The German group, which I think has a thousand members. It's really huge. It's from the Dispotechnik. TOOL USA, we recently founded with Barry's blessing. We're based out of Princeton University. If there's any people near you, meet people here. Talk and go home. Get together and play with stuff. Take it apart. It's excellent to do with friends or as an individual activity. I take a train up to Newark to go to school and I'll just sit there fussing with lockpicks on the train, just popping stuff open. It's a great way to pass the time. You get a few strange looks, but you're not doing anything very illegal. We're going to cover that now in the legal section. You've got to hold the question. I'm sorry. We're going to run out of time if we don't. Sorry. Buying picks. Southerd guys. Excellent, excellent picks for starter kits. They're very simple. The Peterson manufacturing company makes very nice high-end equipment. You can get stuff here. I know the guys from IVU are around. Check out their table. Check out some of our stuff in the hands-on area if you want to just pick them up from us. You can make your own. We'll cover all kind of fun stuff, but we're going to have our grinder tools out. We're going to make some picks and make some fun stuff in the hands-on session. Those of you with legal concerns, I am not a lawyer. I am not sleeping with one. This is not legal advice. Take it for what it's worth. Check your local laws. To purchase, ship, and in general just be involved in the transportation of picks, there is a federal standard. The federal standard is a five-point eligibility. You can be a lock manufacturer. You can be law enforcement. You can be in the auto business. You can be a repo man. Or you can be a bona fide locksmith. The lawyers in the room will tell you bona fide meaning in good faith. It doesn't mean a professional locksmith. It doesn't mean a certified locksmith. It just means you have a good faith interest in locksmithing. In many circles, check with a lawyer, in many circles this is extended to hobbyist and academic interests. I've got to have you wait for the question. I'm sorry. If you have a legitimate non-criminal interest in this, you are covered under that part of the law. If you're dealing with a vendor and they say you have to fill out this form, fill it out under check box number five and you should be clear. Possession of lock picks, however, can be squirrely. Lock picks per se, right Mike, are not illegal. Burglary tools are illegal, right? Depends where, but generally yes. Burglary tools, what makes a burglary tool? Intent. Intent is much of the law. Most laws, every state, by the way, the lockpick101.com those guys, lockpicking101.org or com, we'll check it again, they have a whole legal section you can get all the information you need. Basically, if you have demonstrable intent that you're trying to commit a crime, you've got a whole other bag of shit you're trying to deal with. If you're just a guy on a subway and they're doing fascist crap in New York, patting people down now and they say, what are these? What are these? Lock picks? Well, you're a guy frigging riding the subway. I wasn't going to go somewhere and pick a lock. No, there's no intent that you were going to do anything. If you are squatting behind Best Buy at 3 in the morning at the back door and a cop's like, what are you doing? You're like, I'm taking a piss. And they find lock picks on you, you've got a whole different situation you're in there. So, be aware of that. Many states do not have intent laws or they have kind of more draconian laws. We can cover that later on or talk to a lawyer. These are states of concern with what are called prima facie evidence laws. It's all kind of relative. Just keep intent in mind. And also if you do anything else illegal, sometimes possession of a lock pick can escalate that crime. For instance, if you're trespassing, if you have, a lot of people here like urban exploring, if you're somewhere you're not supposed to be, you might turn a misdemeanor trespass charge into a criminal trespass charge because you had picks on you. Keep it in mind. Check with a lawyer. There's plenty of lawyers here. Talk to the people who know. Acquiring locks. I'll shoot through this real fast. Basically, the last, the main thing is just don't go crazy buying them all over. Most locks are the same. You're gonna, you know, everyone who gets real, oh, I can pick, it's fun. You go to the hardware store, you drop 60 bucks, you got you know, a ton of the same lock. Look through your basement. Look through old stuff that relatives have left in a box somewhere. Look for old exotic designs. You can get really nice what are called training kits. I have one that you can play with at the hands-on where it's pinned, you know, they're keyed the same, but it's only like a one pin stack, then a two pin stack, then a three. So you can actually get the feel for it and get started that way. There's a lot of really good places you can acquire locks. Ask me about later. So how does this all break down into the real world? What does this really bear on in the big picture? They mentioned in the last talk, it's very valid. Criminals don't tend to use lock picks. I'm not saying no one ever picks a lock with criminal intent, but usually yeah, you're going to get a boot to the door. Anybody who was watching sneakers on the Defcon movie channel last night, you know, they just kick the door down. Brute force is what criminals use. Don't buy the most expensive lock on the shelf and put it, you know, in a non-solid core door with like a balsa wood frame, just, you know, with little quarter inch screws. Situate the lock properly. Consider the overall scope of it. I mentioned, you know, if a guy can sit there next to your server room or your records room picking a lock for an hour, why don't you have a security camera near that door? Why don't you have a security guard who occasionally walks by? Keep the big picture in mind. What make good locks? I always get asked this, so I put this page in just to shoot down a few names. I don't work for any of these guys. They just kind of impress me. Those Medicos with the biaxial pins, I love them to death. The Assa V10, for the slight flaw that it has, it's still magnificent. Those best FICs, they're very hard to pick. They're very nice to do logistics of large scale deployment. Abus, that was what Barry was picking, the rotating disk lock. They make a very, very nice strong lock. American, we're going to talk about a little bit more at my very end slide, but they tend to make good things. And if anybody here is in the military, by the way, anybody who can score me one of these bad boys? The Sergeant in Greenleaf 833, I've heard it told that if you come across one of these, somewhere far, far away, there's a lieutenant screaming at a corporal as to why it's not inventoried properly, because they're not supposed to get out there. You got one? You got one? That's what I've heard. These are armory locks. These are a Medico biaxial core, situated in what is the most beautifully designed and engineered housing I've ever seen in my life. Yes, some bad locks stand out. We've been kind of beaten up on Master for this talk, and I don't like to all the time, because they make a high-end model, just no one buys them, because they keep frigging making shitty models that everyone buys, because they're cheap. Quickset, everyone who's ever got a door in your house that has a quickset, you'll shit your pants when you pick it in three seconds. Keep in mind, you get what you pay for. If there's three different locks on the shelf, one costs nothing, one costs middle, and one costs a lot, chances are, the expensive one's going to be better. If you're in the American marketplace, if it's a free market system, if you're a recognizable name, you can't keep producing garbage year after year, and people aren't going to keep buying your product, unless you're Microsoft. If it's a reputable brand and it's expensive, you're probably halfway there. You picked a quickset with a popsicle stick? It wouldn't surprise me. Keep playing with these locks. Keep experimenting. Security is achieved through openness, not just in the digital world. We should not be so eager to be hushed up about when we discover things in the physical world. Craziness next door. The American 700 is a story I love to tell, because it's a complete example of this phenomenon. Anybody live in a big city? Been to a big city? So if you're walking around at night, you'll see that every storefront is closed down with a big honking sucker. Almost always, storefronts and big where brute force, where some guy with a crowbar is going to be the assault, is going to be either an American lock or a clone of an American lock. This is their 700 series lock. It's a very nice padlock. It has a flaw, however, which was discovered. This lock is a removable core. You can see that when the lock is unlocked, you can unscrew from the inside, drop the eight plate off, eject the core. The core is a nice little self-contained unit. This core interfaces with the double ball control cylinder by means of the core has a raised half circle piece and the control cylinder has a raised quarter circle piece. Can you guys see that? How they just fit together and when they're together, they turn and they engage. Peterson makes this tool called the American Bypass Tool. This is the bypass tool and if I stick this all the way down this lock and I beat this tool to hell that opens that lock. Why is that? Well, it's because if you're looking at this core, this ejected core, this is the back end of it. The keyway is visible. The keyway is cut all the way through and the Peterson tool, the bypass tool just has a little hockey stick kind of end. It slips all the way down through the keyway and it spins that second cylinder. The cylinder, it just fits right in where it should be and it just kind of just flicks the cylinder and just turns it. It's a very elegant bypass. It's got a lot of attention but American is a great company. Instead of trying to sue people over this, instead of trying to make a huge fuss, American just came out with something called a security wafer. They're hard to order but they do have a part number. You can find them by some vendors. You can take your core, eject it out, and put this security wafer in. And it's literally, I love how it's such a, like the digital world, it's like they released a patch. So it's like a hot fix. And you put the lock back together and you can't stick the American tool down the keyway. Never one to be discouraged, Ken came up with this, which is a wafer breaker kit. You stick these down the keyway, you smash on them, and those wafers are spread out in their history. So we'll see what happens next. I would like to think American is a good company. Chances are they're going to try to come up with something even better. And Ken's going to kind of come up with something better. And the end result is better security for all of us. Because we talk about it, the vendors address it. That's not a bad thing. You know, this is, we know about all of this. You guys, all we know about security through obscurity versus real security in the digital world. Think about it the same way in the real world. The physical world is no different. Matt Blaze wrote a couple of great papers about this. I have the links later. Ultimately, I like to kind of wrap it up by saying don't be super trusting of anything. When I was real young, my dad was in the service, and he had his issue weapons in the house. And when I was growing up, he showed me guns when I was real little. And he said, you know, he's showing me how this is how it's open and closed, and he's showing me how you can look down the barrel and the chamber is empty. And I said, well, why am I showing you this? Because, son, a gun is not safe. A gun is not okay unless you've seen that it's safe. You're not protected unless you've seen it. What did I just tell you? And I was like, a gun's not safe unless I know it's safe. He goes, no. It's not safe unless you've seen that it's safe. See it for yourself. Take things apart. Play with them. Don't just take people at their word. You know, we joke around, and when AST Cell and other guys are out walking around at night, and we all take pictures, you know, oh, the hacker salute, DEF CON salute. This is more powerful than you know. This is something that you should fly in the face of people who try to stop you from exploring. Nothing can be healthier than a really nice, hearty, fuck you to some people who say that learning about things is bad. Can I get everyone to practice this one time all together? Out loud. One, two, three. Fuck you! Hey, man. Those are trade secrets. Those are copyrighted. You can't explore our designs. Just buy them. Fuck you! The Department of Justice is in control. Leave it to your legislators. We will pass laws that take care of you. You don't have to know how things work. Fuck you! Why are you trying to explore things? You're just a criminal. You're not interested in security. Fuck you! Exposing bad security is what protects us all. Thank you very much. I could not have... Oh, sorry. To say that I came up and did this on my own would be just ridiculous. Barry, Matt, Mike here, RenderMan, who you've seen around with the fedora. Before everyone leaves, there's going to be a Q&A. Everybody from Tool, DC719 and Kygoth, everybody in Tool USA, I've got to thank them all. We can do Q&A with the few minutes we've got. Here's all the links. Or if you want, we're really short on time. Do you guys want to just break it down here? I'll pack all this up. We can meet in the contest area, do some hands-on work, and we'll do questions there. Everyone, pie and punch will be served at the contest area. By the way, if you're leaving, leave through those doors. Doors to your left as you face the stage. Thank you."
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