1
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Most locks are not engineered to supremely high tolerances.

2
00:00:40,630 --> 00:00:44,970
Most locks look, and this is exaggerated, something like this.

3
00:00:45,330 --> 00:00:51,330
Imperfections in the machining process leave those pinstack cylinders out of alignment.

4
00:00:51,690 --> 00:01:01,150
And any slight deviation in that alignment means that when you torque the plug there's really only one pinstack binding at any given time.

5
00:01:01,370 --> 00:01:05,270
This is what makes picking possible at its most basic level.

6
00:01:05,270 --> 00:01:11,530
Because if you apply a little bit of pressure on that plug you can do what's called setting a pin.

7
00:01:12,790 --> 00:01:21,610
See we're going to torque this and if you reach in there and start pushing on a pinstack, eventually you'll reach the right height and the pin will clear.

8
00:01:21,610 --> 00:01:24,090
The shear line is met and it'll spin.

9
00:01:24,470 --> 00:01:37,010
Now granted there's not a single pinstack in a lock, there's a row of them, but because you notice when it clears this is holding up the driver that driver is now out of the equation.

10
00:01:37,010 --> 00:01:39,430
That driver pin will not slip back down.

11
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You can keep pressure on this plug and go through the stacks one at a time, setting them and opening the lock.

12
00:01:45,770 --> 00:01:47,390
It looks a little like this.

13
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A tool called a torque wrench is put in and a little bit of pressure is put on the cylinder.

14
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A pick tool, in this case we're just doing pin by pin picking, goes in you reach, you reach, oh here's one that's binding.

15
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When we set it, it clicks.

16
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Keep reaching, keep reaching, and oh there's another one.

17
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I feel it binding.

18
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That plug will click a little more and a little more and eventually you can have them all one at a time open .

19
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This is not not complex.

20
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It's not in the same order every time because those imperfections, remember they're not planned , so which pinstack is binding in which order always varies, but the principle is the same.

21
00:02:22,770 --> 00:02:27,710
And everyone give me some some goodwill and let's kick it off the right way.

22
00:02:27,750 --> 00:02:32,830
Hopefully not have a demonstration effect hit us and let's see what we can do with this lock in front of us here.

23
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Is that in pretty good focus with my craptacular webcam setup?

24
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What I'm using is called a jackknife set.

25
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It's a nice little compact job.

26
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I think the Irvine guys have these here this year.

27
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Anybody checked out the vendor areas?

28
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Irvine Underground has their spread of tools out there.

29
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Yeah, good guys.

30
00:02:57,550 --> 00:03:00,990
So this is, this is your basic cheap master lock.

31
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You'll find I beat up on master a lot in this talk, not because they make the worst locks out there, but, you know, they're definitely in the business of it.

32
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But honestly, I mean, we'll cover later a lot of what, you know, Mark was saying and how many people were at the last talk?

33
00:03:16,090 --> 00:03:17,450
The ethics of full disclosure.

34
00:03:17,670 --> 00:03:24,030
So you realize a lot, you know, can you really blame companies for making crappy locks if the consumers continually buy them?

35
00:03:24,030 --> 00:03:27,730
And can you blame the consumers really for buying crappy locks if they don't know they're crappy?

36
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Exactly who's to blame is, is really kind of up in the air, but one thing is for sure, these aren't really the most skillful locks ever.

37
00:03:38,670 --> 00:03:40,250
Yeah, so the lock is open now.

38
00:03:45,320 --> 00:03:46,100
Thank you.

39
00:03:48,020 --> 00:03:49,520
That, that's as simple as it is.

40
00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:52,040
Literally, you just reach in a little bit.

41
00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,240
This is that, this is that torque wrench I was showing you here.

42
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:55,060
Are we still in frame?

43
00:03:55,060 --> 00:03:55,740
There we go.

44
00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,720
This is, this torque wrench just slips right down in the keyway.

45
00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,980
A little bit of torque and pushing those pins up.

46
00:04:02,980 --> 00:04:05,700
We're going to do a hands-on session when all this is done, by the way.

47
00:04:05,700 --> 00:04:08,080
I invite people to come and actually try this.

48
00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:09,580
You'll, you'll be amazed how easy it is.

49
00:04:09,580 --> 00:04:10,220
Question?

50
00:04:13,100 --> 00:04:16,540
Yeah, so everyone has their own technique that they like.

51
00:04:16,540 --> 00:04:20,360
In fact, you'll see some people like to put the torque wrench up in the top of the keyway.

52
00:04:20,620 --> 00:04:21,680
Mouse, you like that.

53
00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,340
Some people seat it down low.

54
00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:35,880
I tend to just hold it right in my hand, just let the, the torque wrench give pressure this way, because as I mentioned, the two biggest mistakes people make when they're first practicing this, when they first want to get into it, is too much effort.

55
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:41,380
Some people put too much pressure on the wrench, which just means the pins are going to jam so hard you can't push them.

56
00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:50,520
And some people push the pins so far up that the driver clears and then the key pin goes up into the shear line and get, you fault, you set it way too high.

57
00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:53,360
The only way is to release pressure, let them all drop and try again.

58
00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:58,940
Like, the way I try to describe it to people, imagine you, well, could be applicable here.

59
00:04:58,940 --> 00:05:05,880
You just woke up, you're still hung over, you just smoked a fat cannon, and you're like 10 times more mellow than that.

60
00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,160
Like, dial it down a lot if you try to pick locks and it's not working for you when we're doing the hands-on thing.

61
00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,080
Chances are it's the lightest amount of pressure you could ever need.

62
00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:17,360
And that's really, there's, there's not a whole lot to it.

63
00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:18,500
That's the basics.

64
00:05:18,540 --> 00:05:21,960
So, how do we, how do we make locks better?

65
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How, how is a lock, you know, everyone's going to say, well, crap, I have locks like this, am I at risk?

66
00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:27,500
No, you're not really at risk.

67
00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:29,120
There are better locks out there.

68
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No one talks about this stuff, so no one buys them, but there's a whole lot of high-end features that locks can encompass, and I will cover them now.

69
00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:39,860
There's things called secure pins.

70
00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:43,460
There's a lot of other advanced features that specialty locks have in them.

71
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First, let's talk about secure pins a little bit.

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This is our same design, the same pin stack , but you notice the driver is a different shape.

73
00:05:51,300 --> 00:06:00,060
This is called a mushroom top pin or a mushroom driver, and you can, you can really just picture it, how pretty easily, if you were to try to torque this, that's going to bind up on the lip.

74
00:06:00,060 --> 00:06:01,040
It's going to get in your way.

75
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,480
It's going to be just a real disaster to try to pick that.

76
00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:04,600
It's, it's a real headache.

77
00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,580
Another type of specialty pin is what's called a spool pin.

78
00:06:08,580 --> 00:06:11,460
They can have a notch that's big or small cut into it.

79
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Spool pins are even trickier, because you get the sensation of clicking and set it.

80
00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:17,860
You're like, oh, I felt it move.

81
00:06:17,860 --> 00:06:19,260
I must have set something.

82
00:06:19,260 --> 00:06:20,400
No, you really didn't.

83
00:06:20,540 --> 00:06:24,280
If you ever have a lock that you keep trying and trying and trying it, you're like, what the hell is wrong with this?

84
00:06:24,280 --> 00:06:25,940
You may have a spool pin in there.

85
00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:31,880
If you want to defeat high security pins and the other kind of, there's another called serrated pins.

86
00:06:31,880 --> 00:06:34,940
They just jam on everything, and they're just kind of a bitch.

87
00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:37,320
Yeah.

88
00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:43,040
If you want to defeat any type of, you know, if you want to pick, usually you'll use a tension wrench that looks like this.

89
00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:44,680
They're usually called feather wrenches.

90
00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:49,780
It's the very, very light amount of torque, the lightest amount you could ever imagine.

91
00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:52,520
Hey, what's going on, priest?

92
00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:54,860
No problem.

93
00:06:54,860 --> 00:06:55,420
Bring him on in.

94
00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:56,340
We're having a good time.

95
00:07:03,490 --> 00:07:08,410
Hey, with this being such a long talk, are you going to do a spot the Fed maybe in the middle of it, if we want to break it up some?

96
00:07:11,410 --> 00:07:17,910
So yeah, if you use a very, very light touch on the wrench, you can actually force the pin stack.

97
00:07:25,020 --> 00:07:26,380
Yeah, there's some seats up here.

98
00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:28,580
Raise your hand if there's some extra seats near you.

99
00:07:29,020 --> 00:07:30,920
We got, yeah, there we go.

100
00:08:02,110 --> 00:08:03,410
Still more over here.

101
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All the way down.

102
00:08:04,790 --> 00:08:06,150
You don't have to stand on the wall.

103
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Come on, everyone else got up friggin' early, and they're in their seats.

104
00:08:22,250 --> 00:08:23,330
You're holding up the show.

105
00:08:26,010 --> 00:08:27,190
Yeah, give him a chance .

106
00:08:28,670 --> 00:08:29,810
All right.

107
00:08:48,750 --> 00:08:50,090
We'll get it eventually.

108
00:08:51,570 --> 00:08:53,570
Just calm, small words.

109
00:09:10,710 --> 00:09:13,090
This is priest, everybody, for anyone who has not met.

110
00:09:13,090 --> 00:09:15,210
How many, how many people is this your first DEF CON?

111
00:09:16,490 --> 00:09:17,790
Welcome, absolutely welcome.

112
00:09:17,790 --> 00:09:20,290
He is kind of the epitome of the goon squad.

113
00:09:20,290 --> 00:09:25,630
They're really, they work hard, they make sure everything flows right, and we always appreciate all they do for us.

114
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So just, if they ask you to do something, just do it.

115
00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:40,640
Anyone who's had the pleasure of comparing dealings with the goons as opposed to dealings with AP security knows which end of the stick you want to be on.

116
00:09:43,870 --> 00:09:51,690
So, those were advanced pins, and we can defeat them, you know, defeat is kind of a rough word, but with that feather touch wrench.

117
00:09:51,710 --> 00:09:53,610
What about even more advanced features?

118
00:09:53,610 --> 00:09:57,570
Because really all this takes is a specialized tool and a little bit more patience.

119
00:09:57,610 --> 00:10:00,150
What if you want something even more secure than that?

120
00:10:00,150 --> 00:10:07,410
Well, some locks, even in the basic pin tumbler design, do incorporate additional security features, and we can cover them now.

121
00:10:10,430 --> 00:10:13,450
This is called a Schlage Everest lock.

122
00:10:13,590 --> 00:10:23,350
You can see that it has a normal complement of pins, just, you know, pin stacks like we've been looking at before, but up underneath the bottom of this plug, there's something called a check pin.

123
00:10:24,330 --> 00:10:31,770
By the way, this is, this will be for a couple of light, we have a lot of leftover bottle opener lighters from the BCCC event.

124
00:10:31,770 --> 00:10:34,190
This will be for a couple of lighters and a Red Bull.

125
00:10:34,190 --> 00:10:39,990
Who can tell me where at a previous DEF CON did a Schlage Everest lock appear?

126
00:10:42,150 --> 00:10:44,170
It was part of the obstacle course.

127
00:10:44,170 --> 00:10:45,230
I need more specific.

128
00:10:45,230 --> 00:10:47,010
It had a specific name.

129
00:10:47,670 --> 00:10:49,310
Two years back.

130
00:10:51,230 --> 00:10:52,190
Nobody?

131
00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:53,910
It was a big blue lock.

132
00:10:54,070 --> 00:10:54,550
Nobody remembers?

133
00:10:54,550 --> 00:10:57,030
Come on, I know you're, a drink and a lighter.

134
00:10:57,030 --> 00:10:57,950
Nobody remembers?

135
00:10:57,950 --> 00:10:58,610
What?

136
00:10:59,010 --> 00:11:00,030
The beer lock!

137
00:11:00,030 --> 00:11:02,370
Yes, it was the beer lock, which no one opened.

138
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Way to go.

139
00:11:07,090 --> 00:11:11,510
And it's a shame no one opened it because this is actually pretty easily beaten.

140
00:11:12,790 --> 00:11:16,150
As you can see, this is the plug up underneath.

141
00:11:16,210 --> 00:11:18,130
You can see this check pin sticking through here.

142
00:11:18,130 --> 00:11:26,370
Now that engages with part of the outer shell and this is not going to rotate unless the pins up top are set and this is pulled out of the way.

143
00:11:26,370 --> 00:11:27,910
You can see this little bar.

144
00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:34,150
Well, that little bar engages with a big groove slot on the side of the Everest key.

145
00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:36,890
You can see most keys do have grooves.

146
00:11:36,890 --> 00:11:40,010
They actually, they help seat the key in with what are called wards.

147
00:11:40,010 --> 00:11:42,950
Those protrusions are called wards that seat the keyway.

148
00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:50,550
This, however, the groove is deep because it actually picks up that pin and as the key travels down the keyway, it lifts it up and out of the way.

149
00:11:51,330 --> 00:12:07,230
Well, it didn't take people too long to realize that you can just make a tension wrench with a nice long finger and pick up the pin that way or you could take an Everest key, cut the hell out of it, stick it down the lock and use that as a tension wrench.

150
00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,720
By the way, we want to thank Matt Blaze for a lot of these beautiful photos you see.

151
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:17,700
I referenced him later.

152
00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:21,360
He's a real groovy cat and he was very kind and let me use these.

153
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:25,620
For a, let's see, we'll still work, we've got a lot of Red Bull.

154
00:12:25,620 --> 00:12:26,080
We're keeping working.

155
00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:32,260
For a Red Bull, can anyone tell me the name of the vendor who manufactures and sells these Everest picks?

156
00:12:33,580 --> 00:12:35,740
Don't please shout and no, it's not Southern.

157
00:12:35,740 --> 00:12:36,320
Let me see.

158
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:37,920
You've won stuff.

159
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:38,480
Wait.

160
00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:39,140
Yes.

161
00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:41,880
Yes, it is Peterson International.

162
00:12:42,900 --> 00:12:43,260
Very good.

163
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:44,040
Applaud for the man.

164
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,260
He knows cool shit.

165
00:12:52,950 --> 00:12:54,270
Yeah, this little Everest.

166
00:12:54,270 --> 00:12:54,810
Yeah.

167
00:12:54,970 --> 00:12:55,570
Yeah.

168
00:12:56,490 --> 00:12:58,030
Yeah, the question was, is that simple?

169
00:12:58,030 --> 00:13:00,790
Yeah, as far as I've seen, all the plugs have that.

170
00:13:02,590 --> 00:13:04,250
Yeah, these are the Peterson wrenches.

171
00:13:04,250 --> 00:13:06,890
They come in two different, you know, there's a left and a right one.

172
00:13:07,270 --> 00:13:08,710
And they're really excellent.

173
00:13:08,710 --> 00:13:09,410
They're very well made.

174
00:13:09,410 --> 00:13:11,410
Peterson, we talk about Peterson later in the talk.

175
00:13:11,410 --> 00:13:12,510
They're a very good supplier.

176
00:13:12,510 --> 00:13:13,350
They're good people.

177
00:13:14,970 --> 00:13:19,490
So, we're moving our way up from like ass-tacular security to almost good security.

178
00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:21,470
Let's talk about very nice security.

179
00:13:22,730 --> 00:13:25,130
This is called an Assa V10 Twin.

180
00:13:25,230 --> 00:13:27,690
This is a very popular lock in Europe.

181
00:13:27,690 --> 00:13:29,930
You don't see a lot of Assa locks in America.

182
00:13:29,930 --> 00:13:32,470
You actually don't see a lot of very good locks in America.

183
00:13:32,470 --> 00:13:33,990
There's maybe one brand.

184
00:13:34,270 --> 00:13:36,490
But Assa is a very good lock.

185
00:13:36,530 --> 00:13:39,990
And you can see it has a traditional pin stack with, as you know, it's secure.

186
00:13:39,990 --> 00:13:41,490
This is a spool pin up here.

187
00:13:41,490 --> 00:13:45,330
And the spool pin even has an extra lip that really binds up hard.

188
00:13:45,710 --> 00:13:51,070
But next to that, there's a tiny pin stack seated way down on the side.

189
00:13:51,370 --> 00:13:58,390
And you can tell that only if these pins are lifted to the right height, can what is called a sidebar fall inward.

190
00:13:58,590 --> 00:14:02,690
This sidebar, unlike remember the check pin was seated down here.

191
00:14:02,690 --> 00:14:03,910
The check pin was vulnerable.

192
00:14:03,910 --> 00:14:05,650
You could grab it from the keyway.

193
00:14:05,870 --> 00:14:10,210
The sidebar cannot be grabbed by anything you stick down the keyway.

194
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:15,790
The only way the sidebar is going to move is if these tiny pins on the side, which are really hard.

195
00:14:15,790 --> 00:14:17,370
You can't really insert picks in there.

196
00:14:17,370 --> 00:14:18,830
It's a really tiny space.

197
00:14:18,910 --> 00:14:22,450
The only way the sidebar is going to fall inward is if that is raised up.

198
00:14:22,910 --> 00:14:25,630
Now, I don't know if you can see my faint text here.

199
00:14:25,630 --> 00:14:26,910
These are very secure.

200
00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:30,590
But the person, in fact, who first showed them to me, a guy named Barry Wells.

201
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:32,050
How many people know Barry Wells?

202
00:14:32,050 --> 00:14:34,150
How many have ever heard him talk at Hope or anything?

203
00:14:34,350 --> 00:14:34,770
No?

204
00:14:34,770 --> 00:14:36,170
Oh man, you guys got it.

205
00:14:36,330 --> 00:14:38,590
He is... I'll show you his videos later.

206
00:14:38,590 --> 00:14:40,370
He's a real amazing cat.

207
00:14:41,070 --> 00:14:47,910
Barry, who was a big fan of this lock, was very disappointed when he found out there is what he calls a geographical weakness.

208
00:14:48,410 --> 00:14:51,750
You can see this lock right here with the cuts on a key.

209
00:14:51,750 --> 00:14:52,770
That's called the bidding.

210
00:14:53,010 --> 00:14:55,710
The bidding cuts are normal cuts right here.

211
00:14:55,710 --> 00:14:58,450
And you can see the sidebar cuts down here.

212
00:14:58,630 --> 00:14:59,730
What's up, X?

213
00:14:59,730 --> 00:15:01,550
Oh, more free stuff?

214
00:15:01,650 --> 00:15:02,730
Oh, yes.

215
00:15:02,810 --> 00:15:03,910
Agent X, everybody.

216
00:15:03,910 --> 00:15:06,250
He's running the show as well with the speakers.

217
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:07,370
Big hand for him.

218
00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:20,020
In my hand, I have some individually numbered issues, hardcover, a Frac 63, final issue.

219
00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:22,820
They're so warm.

220
00:15:22,820 --> 00:15:26,380
They're still warm from the presses and from their total hot, the coolness.

221
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,820
We're going to be schwagging them out tonight.

222
00:15:28,820 --> 00:15:31,660
He's going to be schwagging them out right now.

223
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,580
Will this be for questions or just for fanfare and pandemonium?

224
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:38,120
I don't want arms ripped off.

225
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:43,240
We're all gentle human beings here, I'm sure.

226
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:44,700
Not savages.

227
00:15:45,380 --> 00:15:47,000
Except for that guy.

228
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,340
And they're individually numbered.

229
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:58,000
They're giving away issue number 13 in the Apollo talk.

230
00:15:58,700 --> 00:16:00,260
That's cool.

231
00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,540
Limited edition, people.

232
00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:24,100
And here I thought I was just going to give away little cheap Red Bull and lighters.

233
00:16:29,430 --> 00:16:36,430
Okay, just so we're clear and there's no conflicting orders, do not stand in front of the doors.

234
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:38,490
Yes, sir.

235
00:16:39,450 --> 00:16:41,290
I'm looking right at you with the backpack.

236
00:16:43,130 --> 00:16:46,430
Can we get a hand raise again real fast if there's any more seats?

237
00:16:46,430 --> 00:16:47,250
Do they all go?

238
00:16:47,250 --> 00:16:48,710
There's a few more seats, people.

239
00:16:48,850 --> 00:16:55,090
I know it's nice being able to have that room to spread out, but come on, really, raise your hand if you got room.

240
00:16:55,090 --> 00:16:56,490
I need the people back there by the door.

241
00:16:56,490 --> 00:16:57,650
You three in black.

242
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:00,010
I need two people in the aisle.

243
00:17:02,750 --> 00:17:03,870
Hang on, we're getting there.

244
00:17:04,450 --> 00:17:07,070
And yes, I know everybody's in black, but I just pointed to you.

245
00:17:08,330 --> 00:17:09,970
We got one seat here.

246
00:17:10,590 --> 00:17:12,650
Fine looking gentlemen, ladies, come on.

247
00:17:12,910 --> 00:17:13,530
You know what?

248
00:17:13,530 --> 00:17:14,630
I'm going to bring you down.

249
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:24,300
You, sir, in the yellow shirts, come up.

250
00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:28,340
Okay.

251
00:17:28,740 --> 00:17:29,920
I need to be able to see the doors.

252
00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:30,940
I can't see the doors.

253
00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:32,800
Thank you.

254
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,840
No, this guy's not feeling any love right here.

255
00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,540
This is prime seating, especially if I start throwing stuff.

256
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,200
Okay, we've got one more seat.

257
00:17:43,980 --> 00:17:45,340
Yeah, send him up, Jay.

258
00:17:46,820 --> 00:17:47,780
All right.

259
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,220
Just please keep your feet tucked in.

260
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,340
Please keep... I got one more seat.

261
00:17:53,660 --> 00:17:55,700
Send me somebody from this side of the room over here.

262
00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,860
Somebody raise you up in the white shirt there.

263
00:17:59,300 --> 00:17:59,880
Yes, you.

264
00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:00,580
Come on down.

265
00:18:01,940 --> 00:18:04,060
You're the next contestant on Get a Better View.

266
00:18:04,060 --> 00:18:05,820
Sir, in the yellow, right there.

267
00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,360
Is there one more, sir?

268
00:18:09,380 --> 00:18:10,140
Is this guy?

269
00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:11,500
He still needs a spot, right?

270
00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:12,380
You want to move right in there?

271
00:18:13,260 --> 00:18:13,900
Yeah, you do.

272
00:18:15,020 --> 00:18:16,640
We got... is that seat?

273
00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:17,460
Right here, guy.

274
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:19,460
All right.

275
00:18:20,220 --> 00:18:21,460
Is there any more seats?

276
00:18:21,460 --> 00:18:22,120
Because I overbooked.

277
00:18:22,120 --> 00:18:23,200
Yes, sir, right over there.

278
00:18:24,220 --> 00:18:27,340
Okay, please keep the aisles clear.

279
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:29,980
I've got to be able to see the doors from the stage.

280
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:33,720
That means if I see you standing in front of the door from the stage, you're in front of the door.

281
00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:39,140
Okay, the only reason we're doing that is if a fire marshal walks in, we have the illusion of we didn't overbook too badly.

282
00:18:40,420 --> 00:18:43,760
We're trying to get as many people in as we can for the popular talks.

283
00:18:44,060 --> 00:18:46,020
Okay, we're working on something for next year.

284
00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:47,780
We didn't have a chance to implement it this year.

285
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:54,760
Hopefully we will have it up and running by next year, where we'll have some type of signup system where you can sign up for the talks that you want to see.

286
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:57,520
We'll have you... with the signup, we'll have you line up in one line.

287
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,760
People who want to see it but didn't get to sign up will line up in another line.

288
00:19:01,100 --> 00:19:02,460
So it'll be first come, first served.

289
00:19:02,460 --> 00:19:07,020
There won't be this rush to the other line, you know, 30 minutes after you're into the first talk.

290
00:19:07,020 --> 00:19:08,480
So you get to the other talk you want to see.

291
00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:12,060
But for now, what we're going to do is we're trying to get as many people in as we can.

292
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:15,580
We have actually quadrupled the seating for last year.

293
00:19:16,380 --> 00:19:28,280
Okay, you'll notice that what we found was the fire marshal was working from a four-year-old occupancy limit, and we got that updated.

294
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:29,240
That's why there's more people.

295
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:33,320
You'll notice that you guys were in a huge line all the way back around the side of the hotel.

296
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:34,280
I'm not that good.

297
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:37,620
You'll notice that all of you got in, plus everybody was queued up over here.

298
00:19:38,540 --> 00:19:40,920
So we got everybody in as we could.

299
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:43,740
We apologize for putting you on the floor like this, sir.

300
00:19:43,740 --> 00:19:45,400
Did he smell bad or something, sir?

301
00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:47,160
Okay.

302
00:19:49,140 --> 00:19:50,320
A little lover's quarrel.

303
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:53,560
We got everybody in as we could.

304
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:54,980
We're sorry you had to sit on the floor.

305
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:55,760
We're doing our best.

306
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:56,600
Please work with us.

307
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,660
We appreciate your patience, and we'll keep doing what we can do.

308
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:01,200
Thanks, guys.

309
00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:18,380
After this talk, if you buy a pair of lock picks, and the police pull you over, and they find the lock picks, do not say, I'm a hacker, and I break into my client's buildings.

310
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:20,640
We actually had someone do that.

311
00:20:21,340 --> 00:20:25,520
Welcome to, you're now in jail for having thieving tools.

312
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,000
The correct answer is, I'm going to locksmithing school.

313
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,140
These are classes for my tools, or I am an apprentice.

314
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:33,520
We'll cover that.

315
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,020
There's a whole legal section we'll cover.

316
00:20:35,020 --> 00:20:36,900
I'm a hacker , and I break into my client's buildings.

317
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:40,940
That's breaking, entering, and having thieving tools.

318
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:43,340
So, a little subtlety there.

319
00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:06,940
Work that angle, I'm serious.

320
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,040
Alright, so we were going to talk about the potential weakness in the V-Twin, right?

321
00:21:14,540 --> 00:21:15,500
What's that?

322
00:21:17,220 --> 00:21:18,380
Geographical weakness, yes.

323
00:21:18,380 --> 00:21:26,280
And the reason we call it that is because these sort of bidding cuts can be... if you've had a key made, you can see the machine's not sophisticated.

324
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,120
It's just a grinder that just grinds off the key, does the bidding.

325
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:36,820
This bidding cut down here, however, for the sidebar, is not easily accessible by a traditional grinder machine.

326
00:21:36,820 --> 00:21:39,020
It has to be made on a special milling machine.

327
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:42,300
These blanks are special ordered, which actually increases the security.

328
00:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,140
You can't just, no fool off the street can just get a key blank and cut it.

329
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:52,740
But, it's a nightmare for logistics and distribution of locks to locksmith vendors.

330
00:21:52,740 --> 00:22:07,700
So, Barry and the people at a German sport group found out that all over Germany and other places, they're just divided into territories, and locks are sold with a certain sidebar bidding in that territory, so that all the key blanks for that territory are there.

331
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:14,060
So, it's not a big weakness, but it's just kind of the cost of doing business, the way the distribution works.

332
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:20,700
They don't just deal over the internet, like a guy at a local shop can't have 80 bajillion of these blanks if a customer comes in.

333
00:22:20,700 --> 00:22:22,340
So , it's something to keep in mind.

334
00:22:22,540 --> 00:22:24,700
And that comes into play with what we do bump keying later.

335
00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:25,740
I see a couple of hands.

336
00:22:27,140 --> 00:22:29,260
I do not know how many territories there are.

337
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:33,180
Yeah, SSDevs, we'll talk about them later.

338
00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:34,240
They talk about it.

339
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:34,740
Yes.

340
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:40,740
I would imagine someone could be mapping that out potentially.

341
00:22:40,740 --> 00:22:44,280
I don't know if you can look at just the bidding and know where it came from.

342
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,520
He was asking if you just look at that sidebar bidding, can you tell the territory?

343
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:53,220
Obviously, there's got to be a master list somewhere that coordinates distribution, but I don't know of it.

344
00:22:53,220 --> 00:22:54,460
There was one more hand.

345
00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:03,540
That's a tremendous question.

346
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:13,380
If simple changes to the driver pins, if the addition of a ridge or a lip or serrations, if they make it so much harder to pick, why don't all locks come with this?

347
00:23:13,380 --> 00:23:19,900
And the reason for that is Americans especially, but in general, people are cheap everywhere.

348
00:23:19,900 --> 00:23:27,200
You've got a figure that costs X number of cents to introduce that feature into a lock, multiplied by how many you distribute in a year.

349
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,940
Someone in a boardroom looked at a spreadsheet and said, no, we don't freaking care.

350
00:23:30,940 --> 00:23:32,320
Let's just make them this way.

351
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,540
That's the answer to that.

352
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:37,480
Oh yeah, that's a very good point.

353
00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:40,280
You can retrofit, you can repin your locks.

354
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,420
You can buy pin kits.

355
00:23:42,860 --> 00:23:46,320
Because the driver, the height of the driver, the size doesn't matter.

356
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,880
It's only these bottom pins that have to be the right size to work with your key bidding.

357
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:51,800
You can retrofit your drivers, definitely.

358
00:23:51,860 --> 00:23:56,660
And in the hands-on session, Mouse, if you have the ones that are pulled apart, we can show people how you do that.

359
00:23:58,340 --> 00:24:02,220
So, moving onward, that is a very nice... I don't want to knock the V10, though.

360
00:24:02,220 --> 00:24:05,440
For that one weakness, it's still a stupendous lock.

361
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,600
This, however, is probably my favorite lock.

362
00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:12,420
And interestingly enough, it is an American company that makes this lock.

363
00:24:12,420 --> 00:24:14,540
How many people have heard of Medeco locks?

364
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,420
Now, there's some hands.

365
00:24:16,420 --> 00:24:20,020
Medeco is one of the finest locks I can think of out there.

366
00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:21,280
I don't work for them.

367
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,060
I'm, you know, not dating anyone there.

368
00:24:23,060 --> 00:24:24,180
They're just really good.

369
00:24:24,180 --> 00:24:25,740
They're really good designs.

370
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:34,460
Medeco keys, besides being insanely restricted and hard to get your hands on, have what's called cross-cutting.

371
00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:40,240
And if you can kind of see these pins, you can notice they're chiseled on the tips.

372
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,560
They're also serrated, by the way, these key pins.

373
00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:51,280
These key pins and these chisel tips actually fit into, you can kind of see here, these cross-cut notches.

374
00:24:51,380 --> 00:24:55,960
These pins spin as they track up and down as the key goes into the lock.

375
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,800
It's called axial rotation.

376
00:24:58,060 --> 00:25:07,560
Only if these pins have spun correctly, lined up a notch on the side, will a sidebar fall inward, and then will the lock open.

377
00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:09,880
These locks are psycho.

378
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:14,460
You can't, there's no easy bypass for this.

379
00:25:14,460 --> 00:25:20,380
And in fact, the gentleman we've mentioned, Barry Wells, I think is the only man alive who I know who can pick these.

380
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:22,840
I've seen him do it, and I shit myself.

381
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:28,900
I mean, you know, he reaches, he actually uses that finger pick, and he spins the pin by hand.

382
00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:32,220
And you can even see, this has a fake cut here.

383
00:25:32,220 --> 00:25:36,400
So you can feel like you've spun it and you've caught on something, but it's a fake cut, a deep cut.

384
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,140
It's a really hard lock.

385
00:25:38,140 --> 00:25:41,820
And for someone like Barry to do it, I've seen him like eight minutes, ten minutes.

386
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:48,300
A regular person, just any guy with any hope of picking this would take like an hour and a half, two hours.

387
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:57,580
If you have a security situation where someone can kneel down in front of a door on your property and fiddle with something for two hours, you've got a whole different set of problems.

388
00:25:59,340 --> 00:26:01,080
If they're not getting noticed.

389
00:26:01,820 --> 00:26:05,300
So those are some examples of very high security features in locks.

390
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:06,480
These are out there.

391
00:26:06,540 --> 00:26:08,660
They're not outrageously expensive.

392
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,940
If you, you know, factor in the costs involved, you know, what are many costs?

393
00:26:11,940 --> 00:26:13,140
Like $100, $150?

394
00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:15,740
The V-Twin I think you can get for about $80.

395
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:20,220
The cost offset is not a big difference considering what you're getting out of it.

396
00:26:20,220 --> 00:26:21,200
I see a hand.

397
00:26:26,620 --> 00:26:27,340
Yes.

398
00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:27,960
Yes, it is.

399
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,920
The question was, can you replace just the cylinder, just the core of the lock?

400
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:32,980
Yes, you can.

401
00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:35,100
You can usually mortise cylinders, screw out.

402
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:36,440
You can swap out cylinders.

403
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,760
In fact, a lot of really high-end...

404
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,500
How many people here are in the service or affiliated with the service of any kind?

405
00:26:42,500 --> 00:26:43,660
Military service?

406
00:26:44,340 --> 00:26:45,460
Man, just a handful.

407
00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:46,180
Geez.

408
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:52,780
A lot of military locks are standard designs, like military handcuffs, military padlocks.

409
00:26:52,780 --> 00:26:57,160
They're standard industry locks that have been swapped out with a Medeco biaxial core.

410
00:26:57,340 --> 00:26:58,420
And like you'll see...

411
00:26:58,420 --> 00:27:01,720
Yeah, so you can retrofit locks to varying degrees.

412
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,900
Yeah, the Best Locks, the brand Best.

413
00:27:07,900 --> 00:27:08,900
I cover them in a bit.

414
00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:10,880
They have a very, very nice system.

415
00:27:10,940 --> 00:27:12,880
Especially it's one that's very nice to manage.

416
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,080
We're jumping ahead though, but because you're on top of things, you get a free letter.

417
00:27:18,980 --> 00:27:19,940
Good catch!

418
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:23,900
Very good point to bring up.

419
00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:24,840
We're going to cover Best Lock.

420
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,520
We're going to cover a lot of stuff, so we've got to keep it moving along.

421
00:27:29,220 --> 00:27:31,240
Oh no, that was a very good point someone mentioned.

422
00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:34,460
Okay, you're not going to make this on a grinding machine or at your local hardware store.

423
00:27:34,460 --> 00:27:36,140
You can't make these cross cuts.

424
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,080
Very, very restricted blanks.

425
00:27:39,060 --> 00:27:42,680
So that was a peek at very good security.

426
00:27:42,900 --> 00:27:46,880
Let's flip it back the other direction now and go back to bad security for a minute.

427
00:27:50,060 --> 00:27:50,760
Yes?

428
00:27:57,230 --> 00:27:59,510
The little light shines in the holes?

429
00:28:01,330 --> 00:28:02,870
I don't know what you mean.

430
00:28:04,830 --> 00:28:08,110
Show me later, give me an idea later and we'll talk about it.

431
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,300
The question was, if you keep picking and playing with a lock, will it eventually wear the lock down?

432
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:28,120
Yes, there's a lot of potential wear and tear that a lock can experience.

433
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:32,100
The springs that push the pins, those can get weaker.

434
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,460
A lot of pins are brass because they don't corrode.

435
00:28:35,460 --> 00:28:37,120
Brass is easily misshapen.

436
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:39,200
In fact, I talk about that later.

437
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:40,840
There's some techniques that are really bad for locks.

438
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,220
You can beat the locks up and make them easier to pick that way.

439
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,640
Question again?

440
00:28:50,370 --> 00:28:52,010
Those are called dimple locks.

441
00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:53,210
We're going to cover that in a minute.

442
00:28:54,810 --> 00:28:57,590
I've got to stop rewarding people for jumping ahead of me.

443
00:28:58,710 --> 00:29:00,070
But no more jumping ahead.

444
00:29:00,070 --> 00:29:02,010
Hold on, we're going to get to all the fun stuff.

445
00:29:03,430 --> 00:29:05,810
First, let's talk about really crappy things.

446
00:29:05,810 --> 00:29:07,050
Hang on, wait, wait, wait.

447
00:29:07,050 --> 00:29:08,350
I'm trying to go forward, people.

448
00:29:08,350 --> 00:29:09,850
I expected questions at the end.

449
00:29:09,850 --> 00:29:13,250
This is my second time ever speaking, so you've got to bear with me.

450
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:15,310
Thank you.

451
00:29:18,250 --> 00:29:21,050
We're talking about very bad locks at the moment.

452
00:29:22,990 --> 00:29:25,750
Can I get a show of hands how many people have used this lock?

453
00:29:27,870 --> 00:29:29,250
That's about right.

454
00:29:31,790 --> 00:29:33,650
These locks are incredibly popular.

455
00:29:33,650 --> 00:29:35,410
These locks are everywhere in our life.

456
00:29:35,410 --> 00:29:38,470
Everyone and their dog has a master lock securing something.

457
00:29:39,850 --> 00:29:41,990
These locks do not provide anything.

458
00:29:44,170 --> 00:29:50,990
If you have something that you care about that you're securing with a master padlock, you know, you're pretty much doing this.

459
00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:00,820
Why, you say?

460
00:30:01,820 --> 00:30:09,340
Well, you can take a master padlock, much like this little number, and use a guy like this.

461
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:10,880
Does anybody know what this is?

462
00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:13,220
This is a padlock shim.

463
00:30:13,700 --> 00:30:21,860
A padlock shim can be inserted into a lock, or it can be broken in the lock, because this shim has been beat to hell.

464
00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:25,780
And that'll open that lock.

465
00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:30,740
Question?

466
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:33,240
Yes, it will.

467
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:35,640
I'll cover which can and can't be shimmed.

468
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:42,000
Shims are a very, very elegant sort of attack against a lock.

469
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,100
I mean, they really, I would say, fall into the category of a bypass.

470
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:55,340
Just because the simplicity of the design, and the fact that Americans, especially Americans, but everyone in general, likes convenience as opposed to utility, makes this possible.

471
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:57,700
Let's look a little bit more at this master.

472
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,600
You can see it has a, all padlocks, like, you know, it has a shackle.

473
00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:03,200
It has a little dog notch.

474
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:09,820
And that interfaces with, let's see if we can see down here, you know, a locking bar that's in there.

475
00:31:10,020 --> 00:31:16,040
And only if the combination is dialed in, will that bar retract, allowing you to pull the lock open.

476
00:31:16,900 --> 00:31:21,380
Well, what if you're not opening the lock, but rather you're closing the lock?

477
00:31:21,420 --> 00:31:23,040
You don't have to dial a combination.

478
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:24,680
You don't have to fiddle with a key or anything.

479
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:26,360
You just, you know, slap it shut.

480
00:31:26,900 --> 00:31:30,300
Well, that's because that bar is spring-loaded.

481
00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,520
The bar is just going to get out of the way.

482
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,440
It's like, oh, the shackle's coming down, I better move.

483
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,460
The way, and I'm going to try to get, I don't make films, so bear with me.

484
00:31:40,460 --> 00:31:53,240
The way a shim works, a shim is inserted outside the shackle, slid down in, and then turned, effectively obscuring that dog notch.

485
00:31:53,260 --> 00:31:54,260
You see that?

486
00:31:54,540 --> 00:31:56,520
It just, I'm trying to get that in line.

487
00:31:56,520 --> 00:32:00,260
It just pushes the bar right out of the way.

488
00:32:00,260 --> 00:32:02,180
It's like credit carding a door.

489
00:32:02,740 --> 00:32:06,140
I have a lot of friends back home who are in theater.

490
00:32:06,140 --> 00:32:08,620
There are theater techs and stage designers and stuff.

491
00:32:08,620 --> 00:32:13,620
And there's kind of an axiom with anybody who does craft work on stage and design sets.

492
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,860
If you're doing it with springs, you're doing it wrong.

493
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,660
This is an example of that phenomenon.

494
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:25,060
Many things in locks that involve spring action are easily, easily compromised.

495
00:32:25,060 --> 00:32:28,120
Because a spring is, by nature, not a, it's a dumb device.

496
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,920
It doesn't know what's pushing on it.

497
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:32,640
And you can usually just pop them right out of the way.

498
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,260
So, padlock shims.

499
00:32:34,260 --> 00:32:35,940
The cheapest stuff in the world.

500
00:32:36,260 --> 00:32:37,960
You know, you can buy them in packs.

501
00:32:39,620 --> 00:32:40,620
What's that?

502
00:32:41,260 --> 00:32:44,320
Oh yeah, you can make, we're going to cover, that's going to be a question.

503
00:32:44,580 --> 00:32:45,540
Yes, question.

504
00:32:50,690 --> 00:32:52,090
Yes, very good point.

505
00:32:52,090 --> 00:32:57,150
Metal bus fuses, there's a lot of material that you can make shims out of.

506
00:32:57,190 --> 00:33:01,230
Shims you can buy, you know, the 20 pack is $25.

507
00:33:01,430 --> 00:33:05,210
I'm going to have some of them if you want to play with them in the hands-on area.

508
00:33:05,270 --> 00:33:07,330
You can also make your own.

509
00:33:07,570 --> 00:33:09,150
And this will be a question.

510
00:33:09,150 --> 00:33:13,490
Let's see, this is kind of a hard question because it's very, very current events, if you will.

511
00:33:13,630 --> 00:33:16,870
The question for a Red Bull and one of these issues of Frack.

512
00:33:18,250 --> 00:33:27,290
What readily available material from Defcon did we use to open a jammed padlock at Civiac's house yesterday afternoon?

513
00:33:29,510 --> 00:33:32,370
It was not a badge from Blastier, but a good guess.

514
00:33:32,370 --> 00:33:33,110
Hang on, I saw...

515
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:35,230
Wait, wait, whoa, no shout out.

516
00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:36,770
I saw your hand next.

517
00:33:38,070 --> 00:33:39,670
The man is correct.

518
00:33:39,670 --> 00:33:40,610
Come on up.

519
00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:47,630
The answer was metal from a beer can.

520
00:33:47,630 --> 00:33:48,990
And I have to definitely apologize.

521
00:33:48,990 --> 00:33:52,530
I'm sure there's got to be people flailing their arms on the sides and I might not be seeing you.

522
00:33:52,530 --> 00:33:53,710
I apologize for that.

523
00:33:53,710 --> 00:33:56,550
I'm going to try to keep you in my field of vision when I'm asking questions.

524
00:33:57,070 --> 00:33:59,890
Yeah, just the other day, Civiac had some friends staying with them.

525
00:33:59,890 --> 00:34:01,970
They're moving from San Diego.

526
00:34:01,970 --> 00:34:02,730
Then they stopped here.

527
00:34:02,730 --> 00:34:03,790
They're moving up to Seattle.

528
00:34:03,790 --> 00:34:06,050
It's polyhazard and I forget who else.

529
00:34:06,410 --> 00:34:08,910
But as we, I have definitely done this before.

530
00:34:08,910 --> 00:34:10,110
Many people have done this before.

531
00:34:10,110 --> 00:34:14,110
Some locks, the shackle completely pulls off.

532
00:34:14,110 --> 00:34:16,850
You know, the lock base can actually be completely removed.

533
00:34:17,170 --> 00:34:24,430
And if you accidentally slap it shut, upside down, the keyway is kind of inaccessible.

534
00:34:28,910 --> 00:34:29,750
It happens.

535
00:34:29,750 --> 00:34:30,830
It happens to the best of us.

536
00:34:30,830 --> 00:34:31,390
I've done it.

537
00:34:31,390 --> 00:34:34,470
In fact, I first experimented with this when I did it at home.

538
00:34:34,770 --> 00:34:36,970
We had the right tools in hand.

539
00:34:38,290 --> 00:34:43,330
And a simple beer can is all it took to shim this right off.

540
00:34:43,330 --> 00:34:44,790
We'll do this in the hands-on session.

541
00:34:44,790 --> 00:34:47,430
I've got plenty of beer can metal up here, man.

542
00:34:47,430 --> 00:34:50,050
We're going to make some, cut them up, and have a good time with that.

543
00:34:53,350 --> 00:34:56,850
It may or may not have been the beer that resulted in the lock being that way.

544
00:34:56,850 --> 00:34:57,890
I am uncertain.

545
00:35:00,620 --> 00:35:02,040
Very, very, very easy to do.

546
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,980
In fact, you can ask them.

547
00:35:03,980 --> 00:35:09,440
We probably took, I guess, 30, 40 minutes in midday Vegas traffic to get to the house.

548
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:12,340
It probably took 30 or 40 seconds to get this lock off.

549
00:35:15,240 --> 00:35:17,940
There are, however, unshimmable padlocks.

550
00:35:19,180 --> 00:35:24,380
There are very, very good padlocks on the market that shims will do absolutely nothing to.

551
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:28,280
Some padlocks have a nice big boot or collar on the top.

552
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,780
That makes the shim really hard to insert, damn near impossible.

553
00:35:32,060 --> 00:35:43,640
Incidentally, for, let's say, a red, this is kind of an easy one, for a Red Bull and a lighter, and I'm keeping the sides, keep the sides in view, what is the actual purpose of the collar or boot up on these?

554
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:45,400
Whoa, that was a lot of hands.

555
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,540
I think it was this way down there.

556
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:52,920
Preventing bolt cutters is the exact right answer.

557
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,520
Come on up, get a drink and a lighter.

558
00:35:58,220 --> 00:36:01,520
Other locks, you can actually, let me flip back to this.

559
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:11,040
This is not the best solution, but if you were to just put notches in this bar, and literally, I mean, we're not talking about re-engineering the lock here.

560
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:12,040
Oh, here's a lighter, man.

561
00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:14,920
Bottle opener lighters, gotta dig those.

562
00:36:15,660 --> 00:36:17,840
You know, we're not talking about a massive new design.

563
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:23,040
If you were to just notch this bar, that would rip the crap out of the shim as you try to spin it around.

564
00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:27,200
And if you, you can actually kind of see in there, this bar is pretty beat up.

565
00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:32,460
I have some padlocks that I've shimmed so many times, they just shred the shims now because there's so many scrapings.

566
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,380
So if people would just notch the bar, it would be kind of, kind of a solution.

567
00:36:36,380 --> 00:36:46,320
But really, the best type of padlock, and frankly, in my mind, the only type of padlock that can be considered useful at all, involves what's called double ball locking.

568
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,420
Double ball locked padlocks, the shackle has, you know, a dog notch on each side.

569
00:36:51,900 --> 00:36:55,840
And inside, there is no bar with a spring or any other horseshit like that.

570
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,540
There are two solid steel ball bearings.

571
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:03,280
These are not going to go anywhere unless this control cylinder in the middle is rotated.

572
00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,500
You can see the control cylinder has a notch on each side.

573
00:37:06,540 --> 00:37:10,740
That cylinder rotates, the ball bearings drop in, that the lock will open.

574
00:37:10,740 --> 00:37:12,340
That is a real padlock.

575
00:37:12,340 --> 00:37:15,060
Anything else is, you know, a paperweight.

576
00:37:15,980 --> 00:37:19,420
Many locks employ, they're called key retaining locks, by the way.

577
00:37:19,420 --> 00:37:22,440
Locks that you have to have the key to open it and close it.

578
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:26,560
Those are invariably going to be high-end double ball mechanisms that are in there.

579
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,360
But any lock, it'll stay right on the front, double ball mechanism.

580
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,320
Look for that.

581
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:34,080
It is not at all a big investment to make that leap up.

582
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,560
It's the difference of like a $5 lock or a $12 lock.

583
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:40,560
Moving on.

584
00:37:41,380 --> 00:37:43,620
From good locks, we'll jump back again.

585
00:37:43,620 --> 00:37:46,340
We're kind of doing a high and low range of things.

586
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:48,240
Warded locks.

587
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:51,300
How many people have ever seen locks that look like this?

588
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,640
Alright, yes, they are a lot of places.

589
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:10,020
Warded locks are really very nice locks for certain reasons.

590
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,360
They're very popular in outdoor situations.

591
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:17,060
In fact, if you notice that trailer that I showed you in the other pictures, that was a warded lock.

592
00:38:17,060 --> 00:38:18,500
Why are they popular outdoors?

593
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:20,480
Well, they're very resistant to fouling.

594
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,200
They're very resistant to dirt and filth.

595
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,860
They can rust up and they'll still usually work.

596
00:38:25,860 --> 00:38:29,760
They don't have an intricate pin tumbler mechanism inside.

597
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:37,060
The fact that they have a very rudimentary mechanism means that you can put a lot of crap in this lock and it'll still sort of work.

598
00:38:37,700 --> 00:38:42,000
The other side of that coin is that it's a really rudimentary mechanism and it's a joke.

599
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,160
Warded locks look kind of like this on the inside.

600
00:38:46,420 --> 00:38:49,120
You have a long keyway with wards.

601
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:52,120
Those are protrusions called wards that get in the way.

602
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:57,500
And at the very tip, you'll have just a notch bar with a spring.

603
00:38:57,500 --> 00:39:01,600
Those keys, if I jump back...

604
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,520
Those keys... let me flip to...

605
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:07,920
I used to have these numbered and the numbers have all but worn off.

606
00:39:11,780 --> 00:39:13,320
Got it on the first one.

607
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:21,060
This key, when it goes down the keyway, the only thing... can you guys see that okay?

608
00:39:21,240 --> 00:39:28,120
The only thing that's actually operating this lock is this very, very tip of the key.

609
00:39:28,860 --> 00:39:35,900
That little tip of the key is interfacing with this lock mechanism, the latch that's hidden inside.

610
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:38,160
However, what that means is...

611
00:39:38,860 --> 00:39:41,120
Let me pull some stuff out here.

612
00:39:51,660 --> 00:39:56,130
My pickset is all clouded.

613
00:39:56,330 --> 00:39:57,710
There we go.

614
00:39:58,990 --> 00:40:05,970
What that means is if you take a warded key lock and you file down... can everyone see that alright?

615
00:40:06,490 --> 00:40:09,130
You file down all the notches.

616
00:40:09,130 --> 00:40:11,550
This will still operate the lock.

617
00:40:11,550 --> 00:40:13,270
I think this was number one.

618
00:40:13,510 --> 00:40:14,750
No, it's number three.

619
00:40:16,570 --> 00:40:23,590
So this was... I took, you know, number one is probably this guy and I just filed all the wards off of it except for the tip.

620
00:40:25,670 --> 00:40:27,050
Let me get that in there.

621
00:40:27,050 --> 00:40:29,850
That still opens this lock.

622
00:40:29,850 --> 00:40:31,590
Because, you know, you only need the tip.

623
00:40:31,730 --> 00:40:36,110
The rest of the lock, the only thing it's doing is getting in the way.

624
00:40:36,110 --> 00:40:40,110
So that means you can take this to any warded lock.

625
00:40:42,630 --> 00:40:44,050
The tip will open.

626
00:40:45,490 --> 00:40:47,730
And they just, you know, there you go.

627
00:40:55,240 --> 00:40:56,520
Oh, I saw some hands.

628
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:57,980
Wait, hang on, there's people with hands.

629
00:40:57,980 --> 00:40:58,520
Wait.

630
00:40:58,820 --> 00:40:59,480
Hands?

631
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:06,000
Not so much with a regular pick, but there are what are called warded picks.

632
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,000
And there was a hand back there.

633
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:08,260
Was that the same question?

634
00:41:16,460 --> 00:41:17,740
I'm not familiar.

635
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:19,860
They were even mentioned in the last talk.

636
00:41:19,860 --> 00:41:20,440
I've yet to see.

637
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,040
If anyone has one of these, I'd love to see it.

638
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:23,320
The TSA luggage lock.

639
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:26,540
I don't deal with... you guys who fly, you're nuts if you check bags, man.

640
00:41:26,540 --> 00:41:27,520
I FedEx all my shit.

641
00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,100
I don't deal with those psychos.

642
00:41:30,380 --> 00:41:30,940
Hand?

643
00:41:37,030 --> 00:41:37,530
Okay.

644
00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:41,440
Okay.

645
00:41:41,500 --> 00:41:43,300
And you were going to ask a question as well, I'm sorry.

646
00:41:44,860 --> 00:41:46,660
Yeah, he makes a very valid point.

647
00:41:46,660 --> 00:41:48,680
A lot of these locks, they're really just decoration.

648
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:50,820
Oh, we have a TSA lock?

649
00:41:50,820 --> 00:41:51,900
Thank you, sir.

650
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:53,440
He gave that man a lighter for that.

651
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:56,540
This is a... are you kidding me?

652
00:41:57,260 --> 00:41:58,820
This is a TSA lock?

653
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,020
Oh, for... okay.

654
00:42:07,020 --> 00:42:09,980
So there's apparently varieties of TSA locks.

655
00:42:10,060 --> 00:42:11,820
But yeah, I hate the TSA.

656
00:42:11,820 --> 00:42:13,320
I won't give them any of my stuff.

657
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:15,920
Alright, moving on.

658
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:17,260
Oh wait, sorry, question.

659
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,660
The question was locks that are called key retaining locks.

660
00:42:27,660 --> 00:42:30,740
The key is inside the padlock the whole time it's operating.

661
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,220
That's what you're asking about?

662
00:42:32,460 --> 00:42:35,100
And you're saying is it a spring that keeps the key in?

663
00:42:39,830 --> 00:42:43,730
Oh, invariably key retaining locks tend to be much higher quality.

664
00:42:43,730 --> 00:42:44,990
They're going to have a double ball.

665
00:42:44,990 --> 00:42:46,490
So no, you can't shim those.

666
00:42:47,630 --> 00:42:49,230
So yeah, you can buy...

667
00:42:49,230 --> 00:42:50,870
Does anyone see Irvine's table?

668
00:42:50,870 --> 00:42:52,910
Do they have the warded picks there this time around?

669
00:42:53,070 --> 00:42:54,570
Yeah, Irvine usually has these sets.

670
00:42:54,570 --> 00:42:55,710
What are they, like nine bucks?

671
00:42:56,410 --> 00:42:58,070
I hope I didn't lowball that price.

672
00:42:58,070 --> 00:42:59,310
If they're more, they're worth it.

673
00:42:59,310 --> 00:43:00,950
But they should be about nine bucks.

674
00:43:02,050 --> 00:43:04,290
Yeah, or you can literally just buy...

675
00:43:04,290 --> 00:43:06,530
You know, these locks cost about seven dollars.

676
00:43:06,530 --> 00:43:09,130
So just buy one and carve the key down.

677
00:43:09,170 --> 00:43:09,970
Question.

678
00:43:15,620 --> 00:43:17,300
Oh, why are there different shapes?

679
00:43:17,560 --> 00:43:19,280
You can notice that...

680
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:20,980
The question is about those shapes.

681
00:43:21,260 --> 00:43:24,940
The key tips aren't always the same size.

682
00:43:25,220 --> 00:43:28,980
Sometimes there's a very, very thin tip.

683
00:43:28,980 --> 00:43:32,520
Now, if you had a slightly thicker one, it might not stick all the way in.

684
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:33,740
But if you have a very...

685
00:43:33,740 --> 00:43:34,440
You couldn't just...

686
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,580
If I just took this key, carved it all the way down, the thin is a little weaker.

687
00:43:38,780 --> 00:43:40,900
So this set, it gives you kind of options.

688
00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:44,700
You can see how they all engage that lever on one level or another.

689
00:43:45,420 --> 00:43:49,500
Occasionally, you don't see them anymore, but you used to see a dual lever warded lock.

690
00:43:49,580 --> 00:43:50,880
In fact, I think I have one over here.

691
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,140
I used to have one on the back of my truck for my trailer hitch.

692
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,540
But, you know, you don't see...

693
00:43:55,540 --> 00:43:59,320
Any one of these could probably open just about any warded lock out there.

694
00:44:02,460 --> 00:44:03,700
Ah, barrel locks.

695
00:44:03,700 --> 00:44:04,340
New this year.

696
00:44:04,340 --> 00:44:06,500
Anyone who saw me at SHMOO, you didn't see this part.

697
00:44:26,830 --> 00:44:33,030
Barrel locks are very popular with utility companies, and they're popular in outdoor situations.

698
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:34,950
I would almost...

699
00:44:34,950 --> 00:44:36,250
These are kind of the in-between.

700
00:44:36,250 --> 00:44:37,470
Are these really a lock?

701
00:44:37,470 --> 00:44:38,190
Are they not?

702
00:44:38,190 --> 00:44:39,030
I don't really know.

703
00:44:39,030 --> 00:44:45,190
I like to kind of use them as an example of something that works like a lock, but it shouldn't be thought of as a lock.

704
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:50,070
I've seen these sometimes on perimeter fence, on way out on the edge of properties.

705
00:44:50,070 --> 00:44:51,570
Don't use them out there.

706
00:44:51,910 --> 00:44:54,130
Let the utility company work with these.

707
00:44:54,130 --> 00:44:56,070
They're really not truly locks.

708
00:44:56,510 --> 00:44:58,830
And here, we're going to play with some of them in a bit.

709
00:44:59,750 --> 00:45:02,070
The way barrel locks work...

710
00:45:03,150 --> 00:45:05,910
A barrel mechanism looks something like this.

711
00:45:05,990 --> 00:45:14,710
It's a double ball action inside with a plunger, and if this plunger retracts, obviously, the balls fall inward.

712
00:45:15,110 --> 00:45:25,430
But unlike very high quality padlocks where the double ball mechanism is engaged with a key and so forth, these really just rely on a very, very strong spring.

713
00:45:26,090 --> 00:45:29,050
If you just reach in there with a hook, pull that out.

714
00:45:29,050 --> 00:45:31,070
Let me see if I can do that for you.

715
00:45:32,190 --> 00:45:36,310
This is a homemade tool made out of a fishing snake.

716
00:45:36,310 --> 00:45:37,690
You can run wire through a wall.

717
00:45:37,990 --> 00:45:39,390
Very, very nice steel.

718
00:45:39,550 --> 00:45:42,410
If you temper it right, you can make a lot of good tools out of this.

719
00:45:44,010 --> 00:45:45,150
This is a barrel lock.

720
00:45:45,150 --> 00:45:48,890
You can see the outer casing and the little balls here.

721
00:45:49,570 --> 00:45:52,510
If I reach in...

722
00:45:52,510 --> 00:45:55,010
Sorry if I'm going out of frame for a second.

723
00:45:58,850 --> 00:45:59,790
There we go.

724
00:45:59,890 --> 00:46:00,970
That's locked.

725
00:46:02,810 --> 00:46:03,910
That's not the cool part.

726
00:46:03,910 --> 00:46:06,670
It's kind of cool, but, you know...

727
00:46:06,670 --> 00:46:07,810
Unlocking it.

728
00:46:07,810 --> 00:46:08,770
There, now you can applaud.

729
00:46:08,770 --> 00:46:09,570
The unlocking part.

730
00:46:09,570 --> 00:46:10,450
That's fun.

731
00:46:13,750 --> 00:46:17,730
This is the plunger that would ride all the way down inside there.

732
00:46:17,730 --> 00:46:20,050
I don't know if we can get that up to the camera.

733
00:46:20,690 --> 00:46:22,830
My camera is ass-tacular.

734
00:46:23,890 --> 00:46:30,370
But yeah, that little plunger just rides in and out and it's not a complex mechanism.

735
00:46:30,530 --> 00:46:42,310
I've known people, maybe I've heard of people, who hypothetically had their gas turned off because they were potentially a moron and didn't pay their bills for maybe a year.

736
00:46:42,650 --> 00:46:45,210
And maybe they turned the gas back on this way.

737
00:46:45,270 --> 00:46:48,310
But I could just be telling a story someone told me.

738
00:46:49,110 --> 00:46:50,130
Was there a question?

739
00:46:50,130 --> 00:46:51,590
There were a couple of questions on that one.

740
00:46:54,890 --> 00:47:02,470
Oh, how do I... I just... Actually, I think I have one that has... You can kind of see the plunger in there.

741
00:47:03,850 --> 00:47:05,270
Oh, I'll show you the key.

742
00:47:05,270 --> 00:47:11,370
The tool that I use just reaches in and has a hook tip and I just kind of grab as hard as I can on the spring.

743
00:47:11,370 --> 00:47:14,970
The spring is sort of fused to the base of the plunger.

744
00:47:14,970 --> 00:47:17,830
So if you get that spring at all, it'll move.

745
00:47:17,890 --> 00:47:19,730
Was there another question before I jumped on?

746
00:47:19,730 --> 00:47:20,070
No?

747
00:47:20,070 --> 00:47:20,210
Alright

748
00:47:23,400 --> 00:47:23,840
.

749
00:47:24,300 --> 00:47:26,280
There's another type, very similar.

750
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,220
It's just called a screw style, bolt style.

751
00:47:29,220 --> 00:47:35,480
In this case, there's just threading and the bolt that's inside the plunger spins outward.

752
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,500
The key on that... Here's what keys look like.

753
00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:41,080
This is the actual anchor key.

754
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,940
It's called A-N-K-E-R.

755
00:47:43,340 --> 00:47:44,700
It's really just... It sticks down.

756
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:49,680
I think the tip of this has a pair of hooks that flange outward if you pull the handle.

757
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:52,860
But, you know, that's really all it is, just a hook.

758
00:47:53,200 --> 00:47:54,480
And this is the bolt style.

759
00:47:54,480 --> 00:47:58,820
Now, you should note that this is not a regular Phillips head or hex head pattern here.

760
00:47:58,820 --> 00:48:00,600
This is a unique cut pattern.

761
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:05,480
And the bolt on the inside, if you have a rotating bolt style barrel lock, is a unique cut pattern.

762
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:08,900
So it's very, very hard to get to pick a rotating bolt style.

763
00:48:09,220 --> 00:48:11,700
These are... I think Agbay makes these.

764
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:13,700
These are rotating disc style.

765
00:48:13,700 --> 00:48:17,360
You can actually get barrel locks in rotating disc.

766
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,740
We'll talk about what a rotating disc lock is later.

767
00:48:19,740 --> 00:48:21,120
They are really nice.

768
00:48:21,120 --> 00:48:24,960
They are a whole world of difference from what you see on the table in front of me.

769
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:29,320
You can do all kind of levels of permission characteristics, master keying.

770
00:48:29,500 --> 00:48:37,380
If any of you work for any type of a company large enough to think about barrel locks, consider going with a higher end one.

771
00:48:37,380 --> 00:48:41,360
I don't know the price breakdown, but it's really, really worth it.

772
00:48:43,140 --> 00:48:46,600
And just worth mentioning, you see these in similar situations.

773
00:48:46,600 --> 00:48:48,780
A lot of the same vendors sell them.

774
00:48:48,780 --> 00:48:50,880
They're called intimidator screws.

775
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:52,780
These are included just to mention.

776
00:48:52,780 --> 00:48:54,480
These are obviously not locks.

777
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:56,720
Their freaking name is intimidator.

778
00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:58,860
It's meant just to dissuade someone.

779
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,900
These are not to be thought of as real locks.

780
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:07,080
But you'll see these in very similar light duty situations.

781
00:49:08,960 --> 00:49:10,040
Ah, dimple locks.

782
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,800
Someone mentioned these earlier.

783
00:49:12,140 --> 00:49:14,180
Let me try to make some real estate up here.

784
00:49:15,100 --> 00:49:16,520
Are we having fun so far?

785
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,440
Am I doing alright?

786
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:33,540
Dimple locks.

787
00:49:34,260 --> 00:49:37,720
You may have seen a lot of European locks are of this design.

788
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:41,920
In fact, the device, you know the club that goes on automobiles?

789
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,780
They had a competitor that came out not too long ago.

790
00:49:44,780 --> 00:49:45,940
I guess it's long now.

791
00:49:45,940 --> 00:49:48,160
That kind of wraps around the brake pedal.

792
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:52,240
And one of the big things in their infomercial was that the club lock is just a joke little lock.

793
00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:53,740
Our lock uses a dimple key.

794
00:49:53,740 --> 00:49:57,820
You'll see these on higher end situations.

795
00:49:58,120 --> 00:50:01,740
Dimple keys, the keyway is flipped this side.

796
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:05,520
It's flat, so it's a bastard to get your picks in there.

797
00:50:06,420 --> 00:50:09,920
And the... Where did I... Oh, never mind.

798
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:12,440
I don't have a picture of the key, just other than to show you this.

799
00:50:12,700 --> 00:50:16,020
Yeah, dimple keys to actually carve the bidding on them.

800
00:50:16,020 --> 00:50:18,680
It takes a little more skill to get in there.

801
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:26,080
But inside, you know, inside most of the time, these are just simple pin tumbler locks.

802
00:50:27,060 --> 00:50:27,920
Let's see if I have...

803
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,800
You know, it's just a pin stack in here.

804
00:50:32,980 --> 00:50:34,300
You know, it's facing a different way.

805
00:50:34,300 --> 00:50:38,160
It looks different, but it shouldn't be thought of as dramatically different.

806
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,700
It has its benefits, it has its weaknesses.

807
00:50:41,060 --> 00:50:44,300
Some people have tried to make these locks even more secure.

808
00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:45,820
Let me see if I have that.

809
00:50:46,220 --> 00:50:50,260
Well, first, instead of showing you the more secure one, let me show you the less secure one.

810
00:50:51,280 --> 00:50:57,540
There are other means of, you know, if I said the keyway is so small, it's hard to put your picks in.

811
00:50:57,900 --> 00:51:00,360
There's other means of picking them, however.

812
00:51:00,740 --> 00:51:02,780
There's a method called impressioning.

813
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:09,400
Those of you, the few of you who said you knew Barry Wells, the rest of you shall be introduced to him with this video clip.

814
00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:11,380
And we hope that we have sound running.

815
00:51:11,380 --> 00:51:14,700
I'm jacked in and everyone heard that loud blaring of sound earlier.

816
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,660
So let's see what we've got.

817
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:19,260
It's very difficult to pick this lock.

818
00:51:19,260 --> 00:51:21,060
It's extremely difficult.

819
00:51:21,060 --> 00:51:24,800
They put in all sorts of anti-pick pins.

820
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,020
It really is a very nasty lock to pick.

821
00:51:28,020 --> 00:51:32,620
On the other hand, I just explained to you a little bit about impressioning.

822
00:51:32,720 --> 00:51:36,480
And there is a very easy trick to open these locks.

823
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:38,380
And I'll try to demonstrate it.

824
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,680
Here you see the original key.

825
00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:49,400
It has a deep cut, not so deep cut, deeper cut, not so deep cut.

826
00:51:49,460 --> 00:51:52,140
And here's the blank that we prepared.

827
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,140
The blank has the cuts all the way to the deepest.

828
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,720
So this key will never open a lock.

829
00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:00,120
We even made it a little bit deeper.

830
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:04,540
All the holes are just a little bit deeper than they normally get.

831
00:52:04,540 --> 00:52:13,300
And what I'm going to try to do now is put some aluminum tape over this blank key so it becomes high again.

832
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:14,720
Stick it in the lock.

833
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:19,920
Then the pins will push on the prepared key.

834
00:52:20,740 --> 00:52:22,380
They will bind.

835
00:52:22,460 --> 00:52:29,620
I will move it left and right and the keys that bind will actually push deeper and deeper and deeper into the foil.

836
00:52:29,620 --> 00:52:32,660
And at one moment hopefully the lock will turn.

837
00:52:32,660 --> 00:52:34,880
And I have an exact copy of the key.

838
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:41,080
And this is a technique that is possible on almost all dimple lock keys.

839
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:48,600
It's not possible on the Notti locks because they have pin in pin and some have to be pushed upwards and therefore it doesn't work on that.

840
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:52,580
But it works on an amazingly amount of locks.

841
00:52:52,580 --> 00:52:53,960
I show you what I do.

842
00:52:53,960 --> 00:53:02,400
I put some of this aluminum foil that is being used in the car industry and the heating industry over this blank.

843
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,300
So as you can now see it's covered.

844
00:53:04,340 --> 00:53:10,780
The trick is that the way where the key will enter the lock has to be perfect.

845
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:15,600
Because that's where it will probably jam up if this goes wrong.

846
00:53:17,040 --> 00:53:17,520
Ok.

847
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,000
I'll try to insert it.

848
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:22,440
Ok.

849
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:27,660
Now, the prepared blank is in the lock.

850
00:53:27,940 --> 00:53:30,340
And now I will wiggle it.

851
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:34,640
This will take a little bit longer than the ace lock.

852
00:53:35,060 --> 00:53:38,000
But hopefully the result will be the same.

853
00:53:41,340 --> 00:53:42,380
But anyway, if...

854
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:49,540
On average that would open the lock because the tin foil would slowly shape it to the right levels.

855
00:53:49,540 --> 00:53:52,180
You go in there you wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, pop.

856
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:53,800
That's how it would average.

857
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:54,900
It wouldn't take very long.

858
00:53:54,900 --> 00:53:55,860
Ok, there we go.

859
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,160
Now watch when he pulls it out.

860
00:54:07,500 --> 00:54:09,660
He's made an exact copy of the key.

861
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:14,920
Now remember, this is a $150 lock.

862
00:54:16,380 --> 00:54:21,060
Well, some people are really going to be upset because this works with a lot of these tin foil locks.

863
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:23,280
So that's Barry Wells.

864
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:24,860
Very, very good cat to know.

865
00:54:24,860 --> 00:54:26,540
He's a very bright guy.

866
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:31,960
And that is the impressioning technique which made... and you can see like the room just erupted at hope.

867
00:54:31,980 --> 00:54:34,940
That really blows people away to see it's that simple but it works.

868
00:54:34,940 --> 00:54:38,440
I've seen him do it and I'm just I'm in awe of the stuff that he can pull off.

869
00:54:38,440 --> 00:54:39,720
He's a really great guy.

870
00:54:40,820 --> 00:54:45,260
There's... I'm mentioning here another technique that sometimes opens these locks called bump keying.

871
00:54:45,260 --> 00:54:46,540
We're going to cover that in a bit too.

872
00:54:46,540 --> 00:54:48,300
How many people have ever heard of bump keying?

873
00:54:48,920 --> 00:54:49,940
Oh, only some of you.

874
00:54:49,940 --> 00:54:51,560
So you're going to have some fun with this in a bit.

875
00:54:52,500 --> 00:54:54,180
Let me see if that's next or if I added...

876
00:54:54,180 --> 00:54:55,540
No, I added a new section.

877
00:54:55,540 --> 00:55:00,220
There is a dimple lock that's a specialized style of lock.

878
00:55:00,220 --> 00:55:09,820
It's a high-end dimple lock that's recently the Multilock Company who was acquired by the Abloy Group a large umbrella company of lock manufacturers in Europe.

879
00:55:09,820 --> 00:55:15,770
The Multilock is very special because it has what's called telescoping pins or pin-in-pin systems.

880
00:55:16,160 --> 00:55:26,060
The pin stacks, not only do they have regular top and bottom pins, but they have their hollow so they actually have top and bottom pins inside of the top and bottom pins.

881
00:55:26,140 --> 00:55:32,560
So the key cuts are both dimple cuts and sometimes little protrusions in the middle.

882
00:55:32,660 --> 00:55:34,300
So the pins track in and out.

883
00:55:34,300 --> 00:55:36,220
There's pins tracking inside of each other.

884
00:55:36,220 --> 00:55:38,000
It's a very, very secure design.

885
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:39,500
It's a brilliant idea.

886
00:55:39,980 --> 00:55:45,620
It's a brilliant idea, but in theory, theory and practice are different things.

887
00:55:47,300 --> 00:55:52,900
This is what if you were to just kind of look down a lock at a Multilock it kind of looks like.

888
00:55:52,900 --> 00:55:54,480
You can see you have your pin stacks.

889
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:56,240
You can see kind of protruding.

890
00:55:56,240 --> 00:55:58,260
We have pins inside of pins.

891
00:55:58,740 --> 00:56:01,060
And most people say, oh, that's a brilliant design.

892
00:56:01,060 --> 00:56:03,120
You know, you've got this Multilock and that's so...

893
00:56:03,120 --> 00:56:05,240
that must be hell to pick.

894
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:06,600
I can't imagine something like that.

895
00:56:06,600 --> 00:56:09,140
Well, it's actually a little something like this.

896
00:56:09,140 --> 00:56:10,800
Did anyone catch the difference?

897
00:56:13,060 --> 00:56:15,800
This is what people think a Multilock is.

898
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,780
This is pretty much how a Multilock works.

899
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:22,800
Can anyone notice what is the difference?

900
00:56:24,420 --> 00:56:25,580
Yes.

901
00:56:25,580 --> 00:56:29,060
The top pins are not independent of one another.

902
00:56:29,060 --> 00:56:30,740
They are a related system.

903
00:56:30,740 --> 00:56:34,720
They interact with each other in ways that were not completely foreseen.

904
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:38,520
Can anyone tell me... let's see...

905
00:56:39,440 --> 00:56:51,680
This is a really hard question, so this is definitely going to be worth this will be an issue of Frack, a Red Bull, a lighter , and I think we're going to do maybe a hard drive.

906
00:56:51,680 --> 00:57:01,620
I have a lot of old hard drives that are too small for me, but maybe I forgot to erase, you know, Aqua Teen Hunger Force or Monty Python or something I was storing on them.

907
00:57:01,620 --> 00:57:02,920
I don't know.

908
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:04,580
Might be there.

909
00:57:05,420 --> 00:57:12,340
Can anyone tell me the name of the student from Rampamoe College in New Jersey You already got your hand up?

910
00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:13,120
Jesus.

911
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:20,280
You have to pronounce his name correctly, who published an exploit based around this attack?

912
00:57:21,640 --> 00:57:23,520
Close, but no, not pronounced right.

913
00:57:23,520 --> 00:57:25,460
I saw a hand back here.

914
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:27,780
No guess?

915
00:57:27,980 --> 00:57:29,260
Who was it over here?

916
00:57:31,300 --> 00:57:32,260
Pardon me?

917
00:57:33,240 --> 00:57:34,740
No, it was not Eric Murdoch.

918
00:57:34,740 --> 00:57:36,240
I saw a few hands.

919
00:57:36,500 --> 00:57:38,040
Was there anybody I feel like...

920
00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:38,720
I'm missing out.

921
00:57:38,720 --> 00:57:40,100
I know your hand must have been up.

922
00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,800
Eric Michaud is the correct answer.

923
00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:45,980
Way to go, man.

924
00:57:54,690 --> 00:58:00,370
Yeah, Eric is at WhatTheHack which unfortunately is running at the same time as Defcon this year.

925
00:58:00,570 --> 00:58:02,110
See that red box?

926
00:58:02,110 --> 00:58:05,350
Take a look in there and maybe grab a hard drive to your liking.

927
00:58:07,110 --> 00:58:09,010
I think FAT, probably.

928
00:58:09,010 --> 00:58:10,330
Probably FAT file system.

929
00:58:11,390 --> 00:58:14,070
The little red, the master, the box that says hard drives.

930
00:58:16,650 --> 00:58:19,150
Yeah, the Michaud attack...

931
00:58:19,830 --> 00:58:20,950
I'm sorry, what?

932
00:58:27,260 --> 00:58:28,220
What's that?

933
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:35,840
You want to help me out, Sandy?

934
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:37,020
How would we describe this?

935
00:58:37,020 --> 00:58:38,320
This is Mouse, everybody.

936
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:41,840
She's a member of Tool USA, so she's here with us.

937
00:58:42,280 --> 00:58:46,260
Would we call this an exploit or a proof or what would you think this is?

938
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:13,900
Yeah, this is a tool that we have worked and I'd probably snap it apart, but giving enough time, I can keep cutting these and eventually we do get them to work.

939
00:59:19,700 --> 00:59:21,820
Yeah, Ken Presson, the guy from Peterson.

940
00:59:21,820 --> 00:59:23,240
Remember I mentioned Peterson, the vendor.

941
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:27,360
He is, this is definitely on his radar and he's like, oh man, I got some ideas for this.

942
00:59:30,700 --> 00:59:34,460
Yeah, we've engaged with Multilock is aware that people are working on this.

943
00:59:34,460 --> 00:59:36,680
They've acknowledged that there is something to this.

944
00:59:39,940 --> 00:59:42,540
Yeah, they do love to send out letters, don't they?

945
00:59:44,240 --> 00:59:47,900
The trick behind, I mean, you can, most of you, you can see what's going on here.

946
00:59:47,900 --> 00:59:50,420
You'll probably see already where this is going.

947
00:59:50,940 --> 00:59:58,320
Typically, the pin stack would function, this inner pin would be pushed never that high up, because you've got to picture a dimple key.

948
00:59:58,320 --> 01:00:02,120
You're not going to have a dimple that's little and like this big spike in the middle.

949
01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,420
So dimple keys usually don't push the inner pin very high.

950
01:00:05,820 --> 01:00:10,280
That doesn't mean you couldn't stick something in there to push that pin very high.

951
01:00:10,680 --> 01:00:18,020
And if you over lift that pin stack, the Michaud attack just completely moves everything out of the way.

952
01:00:20,360 --> 01:00:23,800
It's a very, very elegant discovery.

953
01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:25,620
And we're very proud of him.

954
01:00:25,620 --> 01:00:26,560
How old is Eric?

955
01:00:26,560 --> 01:00:27,540
He's like...

956
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:30,320
He looks 15, but he's in his 20s.

957
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:31,820
He's a really bright kid.

958
01:00:31,820 --> 01:00:33,440
So, way to go, Eric.

959
01:00:33,940 --> 01:00:38,420
Keep this on your radar and see if Peterson starts selling anything about it.

960
01:00:40,220 --> 01:00:45,360
Back to other locks that are less secure, and everyone knows are less secure.

961
01:00:45,740 --> 01:00:46,900
Tubular locks.

962
01:00:47,720 --> 01:00:51,560
Tubular locks, you guys must have seen tubular locks here and there in life, right?

963
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:53,340
How many people have seen a tubular lock?

964
01:00:53,740 --> 01:00:54,600
Yes.

965
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,760
From the last talk, we mentioned the kryptonite itself.

966
01:00:57,760 --> 01:01:01,640
Kryptonite tubular lock, one of the best ones that people will probably be familiar with.

967
01:01:01,740 --> 01:01:04,820
My parents' old house, the alarm system was a tubular lock.

968
01:01:04,940 --> 01:01:11,900
When tubular keys first came out, they were revered as this breakthrough because, yeah, they're a very new design.

969
01:01:11,900 --> 01:01:13,520
No one had, you know, wow, what is this shape?

970
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:14,280
This is neat.

971
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:15,840
I guess you couldn't cut this very easily.

972
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:18,680
Yes, it's harder to cut a tubular key bidding.

973
01:01:19,660 --> 01:01:24,560
But you have a lock that's literally staring you in the face with all of the pins.

974
01:01:25,080 --> 01:01:33,700
It lends itself very well to a lot of experimentation and fiddling because you can independently work on these pin stacks right there.

975
01:01:41,020 --> 01:01:43,500
This is called a tubular pick.

976
01:01:44,420 --> 01:01:57,400
And a tubular pick has all these little fingers that can track up and down and actually simulate the different cut depths on a tubular key.

977
01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:03,780
If I were to, let's say, find a tubular lock somewhere in my belongings.

978
01:02:12,330 --> 01:02:16,750
Well, I'll do the crappiest one I have just because it's on the top of the pile.

979
01:02:17,750 --> 01:02:19,490
Everyone's seen these before.

980
01:02:20,210 --> 01:02:26,710
These are your basic, you know, cheap-ass, not-allowed-to-be-sold-in-stores-anymore kryptonite-type lock.

981
01:02:27,950 --> 01:02:34,630
The way a tubular lock works, you take the pick, stick it right in the lock, and wiggle it.

982
01:02:36,730 --> 01:02:37,130
And...

983
01:02:37,130 --> 01:02:38,850
Hang on, I've got to give a little more tension on my...

984
01:02:48,160 --> 01:02:53,960
The problem with this lock is I've beat it to hell because of another exploit that we'll talk about in a moment.

985
01:02:55,260 --> 01:02:56,560
Yeah, I think this lock...

986
01:02:56,560 --> 01:02:58,160
I think this lock is completely destroyed.

987
01:02:58,900 --> 01:03:01,980
I was going to buy a new one, but you really... You've got to give them credit.

988
01:03:01,980 --> 01:03:03,560
They did pull all these out of the stores.

989
01:03:03,560 --> 01:03:05,420
You can't get this lock anymore.

990
01:03:05,940 --> 01:03:07,680
So, yeah, this lock is beyond all hope.

991
01:03:07,680 --> 01:03:08,780
Let me grab a different one.

992
01:03:20,860 --> 01:03:23,380
Because of the public... Well, why aren't they selling them in stores?

993
01:03:23,380 --> 01:03:25,180
Let's jump to this then.

994
01:03:28,060 --> 01:03:34,280
This is why, if you don't have... This is a kryptonite Evolution 2000 lock.

995
01:03:41,060 --> 01:03:59,040
I used to use this to lock up my bike around here in Seattle until I found out that you can take a big pen and just remove the top and just pop it into the lock and just do a couple little quick twists and turns and voila!

996
01:03:59,820 --> 01:04:03,560
Your lock and your bike is completely compromised.

997
01:04:03,920 --> 01:04:06,540
So, way to go, kryptonite.

998
01:04:07,620 --> 01:04:09,900
That's why they don't sell it in stores anymore.

999
01:04:11,760 --> 01:04:14,280
Does Peterson sell big pens was the question.

1000
01:04:14,280 --> 01:04:15,380
I don't know.

1001
01:04:15,980 --> 01:04:20,280
Yeah, the original design, the spring tensions were really bad and it was just...

1002
01:04:20,280 --> 01:04:22,540
That's what they were talking about in the last talk.

1003
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:30,360
Right, the modern tubular lock, the gentleman points out, is usually designed by Ace.

1004
01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,340
There's the Ace and the Ace 2 even.

1005
01:04:32,340 --> 01:04:35,180
Those are much better quality tubular locks.

1006
01:04:35,180 --> 01:04:38,140
They have high tension springs, variable tension springs.

1007
01:04:38,140 --> 01:04:39,400
You can't just jam a pen in there.

1008
01:04:39,400 --> 01:04:41,600
I saw two hands, one and then two.

1009
01:04:44,700 --> 01:04:51,300
Not really possible to use a shim just because traditionally tubular locks, you're not spinning something.

1010
01:04:51,300 --> 01:04:58,240
You're actually, those are key retaining locks because of the little notch in the... well, you really can't see that.

1011
01:04:58,820 --> 01:05:02,400
If you've ever used a tubular lock, you know you can't just leave the key in it.

1012
01:05:02,400 --> 01:05:05,300
You have to completely pull it back around to get the key out.

1013
01:05:05,400 --> 01:05:09,800
So there's no reason for any type of spring mechanism to be a part of the secure latch.

1014
01:05:09,800 --> 01:05:11,220
It's all one solid piece.

1015
01:05:11,220 --> 01:05:12,720
You really can't shim them easily.

1016
01:05:12,740 --> 01:05:14,160
And there was one hand back here.

1017
01:05:14,860 --> 01:05:15,700
Same question.

1018
01:05:15,700 --> 01:05:17,520
Okay, yeah, you really can't shim them.

1019
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:29,860
However, if, you know, you have something that can't be defeated by a ballpoint pen, which is, you know, your Ace type design, you can get this lock pick, which is, this one's by Southerd.

1020
01:05:29,860 --> 01:05:31,360
Other people do make them.

1021
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:34,160
These are really beautiful, beautiful devices.

1022
01:05:34,740 --> 01:05:44,740
I'm just gonna make that nice and flat and flush, so that kind of simulates a, you know, you could actually see the key cuts would be of different depths.

1023
01:05:45,060 --> 01:05:46,200
Those bidding cuts.

1024
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:52,540
And this simulates, let me flush it back out, this would be a tubular key that's not cut at all.

1025
01:05:53,180 --> 01:06:01,600
If I give this a little tension, and I stick this in the lock, and I wiggle it some, and now that's open.

1026
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:06,500
You can see the, this is a drawback, it draws a bar back out here.

1027
01:06:06,500 --> 01:06:08,020
This is actually a gun lock.

1028
01:06:10,040 --> 01:06:22,740
Not only have I opened the lock, but, I have the bidding of that key, and you could take this to a locksmith shop, and get a replacement key cut, very very easily .

1029
01:06:22,780 --> 01:06:26,900
I don't recommend that anyone walk into a locksmith shop with a pick .

1030
01:06:28,900 --> 01:06:34,180
All the picks that you can find, usually of this nature, they come with what's called a decoder key.

1031
01:06:34,180 --> 01:06:47,020
It's a little key that just has cuts on it of different depths, and you kind of, it's like a gauge, you go, okay, one, two, and you can actually you could walk into a lock shop and say, I need a seven pin tubular key that's bidded out at three, six, three,

1032
01:06:47,020 --> 01:06:48,740
four, two, seven, blah, blah, blah.

1033
01:06:48,780 --> 01:06:51,740
And they'll just punch it in the machine, and cut it out.

1034
01:06:51,900 --> 01:06:53,560
I saw a couple hands on that one.

1035
01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,940
This, talk about, talk about wonderful, wonderful girlfriends.

1036
01:07:01,940 --> 01:07:05,440
This was a birthday gift from my girlfriend right before ShmooCon.

1037
01:07:05,640 --> 01:07:08,140
So, this is about an $80 pick.

1038
01:07:08,200 --> 01:07:14,300
And you got, you know, everyone else and their brother gives you, like, sweaters and, you know, oh, here's some crap you don't really care about.

1039
01:07:14,300 --> 01:07:15,500
And I'm like, I wonder what this is going to be.

1040
01:07:15,500 --> 01:07:16,400
And I broke this out.

1041
01:07:16,400 --> 01:07:17,700
I just, I wanted to cry.

1042
01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:21,400
Question over here.

1043
01:07:25,680 --> 01:07:26,740
I'm sorry.

1044
01:07:26,740 --> 01:07:28,660
Oh, I understand what you were saying.

1045
01:07:28,660 --> 01:07:34,000
He asked if, while I was picking this, was I actually manipulating the heights?

1046
01:07:34,000 --> 01:07:37,720
No, you don't have to actually force these to do anything.

1047
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:50,840
What happens is, much like with a pin stack that we were working before, if I put, let me see, if I put torque on this, it's not all seven pins that are binding at once.

1048
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,620
Only one pin stack is going to really bind .

1049
01:07:53,640 --> 01:08:03,220
So by torquing, jiggling and jiggling around, the binding pin stack will start to push down, down, down, down, down on a feeler until it's at the right height.

1050
01:08:03,260 --> 01:08:05,560
When it's at the right height, that's no longer binding.

1051
01:08:05,560 --> 01:08:07,220
The next one will bind and so on and so forth.

1052
01:08:07,220 --> 01:08:12,320
So all I have to do is jiggle it and they'll eventually all track down to the right height and they do it all by itself.

1053
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:14,500
Question here, behind you actually.

1054
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:19,320
I've never seen a tubular blank.

1055
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:24,860
I think they're just, you know, just tubes and What's that?

1056
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:25,660
They're blank.

1057
01:08:27,300 --> 01:08:32,120
Yeah, so yeah, they have the little notch that keeps it seated in the lock.

1058
01:08:32,140 --> 01:08:34,060
But you can just cut them with regular tools.

1059
01:08:34,060 --> 01:08:35,740
There was, hang on, you and then you.

1060
01:08:36,160 --> 01:08:38,580
And am I missing, are there hands on the outside that I'm not seeing?

1061
01:08:38,820 --> 01:08:39,240
No?

1062
01:08:39,240 --> 01:08:39,640
Alright.

1063
01:08:39,640 --> 01:08:40,340
Go ahead, sir.

1064
01:08:40,340 --> 01:08:41,580
Are they all the same diameter?

1065
01:08:41,740 --> 01:08:43,880
The question was, are they all the same diameter?

1066
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:49,240
I think diameter, yes, but there are two main systems of pinning.

1067
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:51,040
There's seven pin and eight pin.

1068
01:08:51,780 --> 01:08:54,200
There's actually two picks that Souther offers.

1069
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,240
I think there's a bonus if you buy them both at once.

1070
01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:57,240
It's like a savings.

1071
01:08:57,860 --> 01:08:59,080
There's the seven pin.

1072
01:08:59,080 --> 01:09:01,200
By the way, everything is seven pin.

1073
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:03,620
I've never seen an eight pin in my life.

1074
01:09:04,200 --> 01:09:10,560
There's also something called seven pin offset, which the eight pin pick will work in a seven pin offset lock.

1075
01:09:10,780 --> 01:09:16,980
But , yeah, unless you are like a locksmith by profession or want to become one, just start off buying this one.

1076
01:09:16,980 --> 01:09:20,000
The seven pin is going to be all you play with for everything you can find.

1077
01:09:20,260 --> 01:09:22,160
There was another question over here.

1078
01:09:40,230 --> 01:09:41,590
Yes and no.

1079
01:09:41,590 --> 01:09:42,870
The gentleman raises a point.

1080
01:09:42,870 --> 01:09:53,850
He said, almost all of what we're talking about, especially as far as pin tumbler picking, excuse me, is based upon misalignment and imperfection in the locks manufacturing process.

1081
01:09:53,850 --> 01:10:00,030
And he said, you know, if you had a very precise alignment, you wouldn't need a lot of these other security features, would you?

1082
01:10:00,030 --> 01:10:01,230
Yes and no.

1083
01:10:01,230 --> 01:10:03,530
You can get very precise machining.

1084
01:10:03,530 --> 01:10:11,470
And in fact, all of your well-made locks, the ones I was talking about, like the ASA locks, the Medicos, just by name, they're all engineered very, very well.

1085
01:10:11,470 --> 01:10:13,530
They're engineered to much higher tolerances.

1086
01:10:13,710 --> 01:10:17,270
But you guys know there's a difference between math on paper and math in real life.

1087
01:10:17,270 --> 01:10:22,450
There's never anything that's 100% perfectly flushed down to like a micron level.

1088
01:10:22,450 --> 01:10:25,990
There's always going to be some intolerance introduced into the equation.

1089
01:10:25,990 --> 01:10:29,370
That's why high security pins are still very valid to have.

1090
01:10:30,010 --> 01:10:33,350
But yes, so yeah, you can have them, some are better than others.

1091
01:10:33,350 --> 01:10:35,670
High security locks will be better engineered.

1092
01:10:35,810 --> 01:10:37,530
There was another hand somewhere.

1093
01:10:37,790 --> 01:10:38,570
Yes.

1094
01:10:43,510 --> 01:10:44,670
Pardon me?

1095
01:10:46,210 --> 01:10:47,870
Oh, I'm sorry.

1096
01:10:47,870 --> 01:10:49,430
Welcome from across the pond.

1097
01:10:49,430 --> 01:10:51,710
The question was, how did the biro trick work?

1098
01:10:51,710 --> 01:10:56,070
And for those of us yanks, that was how did the ballpoint pen work?

1099
01:10:56,330 --> 01:11:14,450
That worked just because the spring tensions were so bad and because the pins could seat all the way in, if you just jammed, you know, you just jam a ballpoint pen in there, it smashes all the springs, all the pins, completely out of the way, and it just forces the pins way up inside the lock.

1100
01:11:14,450 --> 01:11:16,110
Both the, Miles, am I getting this right?

1101
01:11:16,110 --> 01:11:26,850
Both the driver and the keypin go completely yeah, both the driver and keypin go completely out of the plug and they seat way up inside the chamber so the plug can rotate freely.

1102
01:11:26,850 --> 01:11:33,890
People also notice that if you pull the pen out, if you're doing that to a lock sometimes the pins are all screwed up then and you screw your lock up.

1103
01:11:33,890 --> 01:11:37,170
So you need a pick like this to get it back working again.

1104
01:11:37,390 --> 01:11:38,210
You had a question, ma'am?

1105
01:11:55,640 --> 01:11:56,600
Very good question.

1106
01:11:56,600 --> 01:12:07,400
The question was, if you want to get high security pins in your locks, either to practice with them or conceivably to secure your home with them, he's, you know, Viros is mentioning, where do you find these?

1107
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:08,400
I don't see them anywhere.

1108
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,300
That's because I'm assuming you're talking about in stores, you've never found them.

1109
01:12:12,300 --> 01:12:12,580
Right.

1110
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:17,400
Because we're Americans and our stores just don't carry very good locks because they sit on the shelf.

1111
01:12:17,400 --> 01:12:17,940
No one buys them.

1112
01:12:17,940 --> 01:12:20,300
People are like, 70 bucks for this sucker?

1113
01:12:20,360 --> 01:12:21,560
This is 12!

1114
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:22,700
Hell with that!

1115
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:25,160
Yeah, you buy them on the internet.

1116
01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:26,200
Look on the internet.

1117
01:12:26,220 --> 01:12:30,960
Any reputable vendor will actually say, you know, features high secure pins features this, that, and the other.

1118
01:12:30,960 --> 01:12:33,440
It's not a feature that they want to be secretive about.

1119
01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:34,760
It's a benefit to the lock.

1120
01:12:34,760 --> 01:12:35,880
So they're going to advertise it.

1121
01:12:37,940 --> 01:12:39,640
Oh, I understand.

1122
01:12:39,640 --> 01:12:40,160
Right.

1123
01:12:40,220 --> 01:12:45,120
You don't, right, he said, do you know if they're a spool pin or a mushroom pin or a serrated pin?

1124
01:12:45,760 --> 01:12:49,020
Different vendors tend to have pins they like to use.

1125
01:12:49,060 --> 01:12:53,280
For instance, you know, we talked about the Asa, that was a spool pin lock.

1126
01:12:53,280 --> 01:12:55,840
We'll talk a little later about American brand padlocks.

1127
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,780
They are big on serrated pins.

1128
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:01,040
But, vendor by vendor, you can kind of get a feel for it.

1129
01:13:01,040 --> 01:13:04,340
I don't know if there's a nice reference guide out there for who has what.

1130
01:13:04,420 --> 01:13:07,320
But, you know, just break one apart and see what's in it.

1131
01:13:07,900 --> 01:13:08,820
There was a question.

1132
01:13:10,260 --> 01:13:11,680
Oh, very good point.

1133
01:13:11,680 --> 01:13:12,840
Very good point.

1134
01:13:12,920 --> 01:13:15,920
We'll talk about this in the URLs later when I give you a bunch of links.

1135
01:13:16,420 --> 01:13:19,000
Lockpicking101.com would probably have that answer.

1136
01:13:19,160 --> 01:13:22,300
It's a great , great user base of really knowledgeable people .

1137
01:13:22,640 --> 01:13:27,040
Anything that I don't cover or you want to know more about, either talk to me later or check them out.

1138
01:13:27,040 --> 01:13:28,640
I'm going to mention them again in a bit.

1139
01:13:30,100 --> 01:13:32,520
Let's see, were there any other questions at the moment?

1140
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:46,500
The problem with a blank is that it might not, I'm trying to think if this was the thing, it might not grab onto...

1141
01:13:46,500 --> 01:13:50,240
The question was, if the ballpoint pen works would just a regular blank have worked?

1142
01:13:52,540 --> 01:13:53,700
Right, oh, alright.

1143
01:13:53,700 --> 01:13:54,280
I understand.

1144
01:13:54,280 --> 01:13:59,980
Part of part of the pins fitting in, let me see.

1145
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:01,600
I see what's going on.

1146
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:12,580
When you have key pins that are still in these grooves, you know, typically you'd have a driver pin stick out and the key pin would seat in this.

1147
01:14:12,600 --> 01:14:13,780
Oh , Laz!

1148
01:14:14,240 --> 01:14:15,340
There you are.

1149
01:14:15,340 --> 01:14:16,420
How are you, man?

1150
01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:18,380
Where were you?

1151
01:14:18,460 --> 01:14:19,580
Stuck in an airplane.

1152
01:14:19,580 --> 01:14:21,380
Oh man, sorry to hear that.

1153
01:14:25,280 --> 01:14:28,880
Usually you would have key pins in those grooves.

1154
01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:31,680
They are helping to turn that center post.

1155
01:14:31,780 --> 01:14:36,980
With the pins being all pushed out of there, there's nothing for a blank to grab onto.

1156
01:14:37,040 --> 01:14:39,060
That's why the plastic pen works so well.

1157
01:14:39,060 --> 01:14:42,860
It actually grabs the post because it uses the plastic misshapes.

1158
01:14:42,860 --> 01:14:44,940
It has a little friction and it will help spin.

1159
01:14:44,940 --> 01:14:46,260
That's why that happens.

1160
01:14:48,380 --> 01:14:48,960
Alright .

1161
01:14:48,960 --> 01:14:50,660
You've got a smaller fucking screen.

1162
01:14:51,580 --> 01:14:52,800
Are you going to sit up here and bitch?

1163
01:14:52,800 --> 01:14:54,360
What the hell, man?

1164
01:14:55,560 --> 01:14:58,300
So that was tubular locks.

1165
01:15:01,580 --> 01:15:03,580
There we go, moving slowly forward.

1166
01:15:04,960 --> 01:15:05,680
Yes?

1167
01:15:09,940 --> 01:15:10,820
Pardon me?

1168
01:15:16,400 --> 01:15:21,820
The question was about Kensington's, the ones that you see on a lot of laptops and security locks like that.

1169
01:15:21,820 --> 01:15:23,460
They say, was it a different diameter?

1170
01:15:23,600 --> 01:15:24,300
I don't know.

1171
01:15:24,300 --> 01:15:24,960
I've never...

1172
01:15:24,960 --> 01:15:26,060
They're the same?

1173
01:15:26,500 --> 01:15:27,100
Okay, yeah.

1174
01:15:27,100 --> 01:15:28,780
You can big pen those as well.

1175
01:15:35,660 --> 01:15:36,260
Okay.

1176
01:15:37,500 --> 01:15:38,020
Alright.

1177
01:15:38,020 --> 01:15:39,340
Oh, we've got more questions.

1178
01:15:43,620 --> 01:15:44,420
What's that?

1179
01:15:48,670 --> 01:15:53,030
Apparently cardboard from a toilet paper roll works very well on a Kensington lock.

1180
01:15:55,130 --> 01:15:56,750
Alright, we've got to move on.

1181
01:15:56,750 --> 01:15:58,490
We're already in the second hour here.

1182
01:16:05,490 --> 01:16:06,610
Alright.

1183
01:16:06,610 --> 01:16:07,930
Moving along.

1184
01:16:07,930 --> 01:16:08,590
Bump keying.

1185
01:16:08,590 --> 01:16:15,890
We were mentioning bump keying earlier briefly when I said Barry was bumping his ASSA lock and you can sometimes bump dimple locks.

1186
01:16:16,310 --> 01:16:22,030
Bump keying is a technique used to quickly spring a lock open with a specially cut key.

1187
01:16:22,030 --> 01:16:23,310
It's called a bump key.

1188
01:16:23,310 --> 01:16:25,350
It's also called a 999 key.

1189
01:16:25,350 --> 01:16:30,230
For a Red Bull, can anyone tell me why it's a 999 key, where that name comes from?

1190
01:16:30,230 --> 01:16:31,230
I saw your hand.

1191
01:16:35,870 --> 01:16:37,150
Very, very good.

1192
01:16:37,150 --> 01:16:44,510
The answer is key bidding has numbers like 0 is no cut at all, 1, 2, 3, the cut depth.

1193
01:16:44,570 --> 01:16:48,590
A bump key is made by cutting all the bidding down to the deepest depths or the 9.

1194
01:16:48,590 --> 01:16:50,150
So it's a 999 key.

1195
01:16:50,690 --> 01:16:52,650
Bump keys work...

1196
01:16:53,330 --> 01:16:57,230
Bump keys work very, very similar to the way pick guns work.

1197
01:16:57,230 --> 01:17:01,790
So let's cover pick guns very briefly and you'll see why bump keys are very, very similar.

1198
01:17:04,690 --> 01:17:05,950
Basic physics, guys.

1199
01:17:05,950 --> 01:17:10,110
If we have a billiard balls on the table, what's going to happen if I shoot this cue?

1200
01:17:12,050 --> 01:17:12,930
Yes.

1201
01:17:13,130 --> 01:17:14,870
3 is not really going to go anywhere.

1202
01:17:14,870 --> 01:17:16,130
2 is going to go flying.

1203
01:17:16,130 --> 01:17:17,930
Newtonian physics at its finest .

1204
01:17:19,390 --> 01:17:21,510
Pick guns work the same way.

1205
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:24,190
Pick guns, just a long blade down the barrel.

1206
01:17:24,190 --> 01:17:27,390
It's tension with a spring and a trigger that flicks this.

1207
01:17:27,450 --> 01:17:29,890
Pick guns work by smashing on the bottom pins.

1208
01:17:29,890 --> 01:17:34,650
Hopefully, if you get it all lined up just right, you need a little practice, but you can smash them all at the same time.

1209
01:17:34,930 --> 01:17:41,710
And if you're lucky, all the top pins will jump up and you can turn the lock very quickly before they have a chance to spring back down.

1210
01:17:42,650 --> 01:17:58,370
But pick guns, besides being expensive, bulky, a pain in the ass to carry around, a very hard thing to explain what the hell they are if you get asked, there's a cheaper, easier, smaller, and very simple solution that can replicate this same physics.

1211
01:18:00,370 --> 01:18:01,910
Thank you for this, by the way.

1212
01:18:02,750 --> 01:18:04,910
It's a retribution for a previous beer bought.

1213
01:18:05,830 --> 01:18:10,170
Laz and I first actually met, was it here at, was it 10 or 11?

1214
01:18:10,190 --> 01:18:11,230
I don't know, I was drunk.

1215
01:18:11,750 --> 01:18:19,890
Laz was up on stage and he was picking away and he wanted beer and I brought one up and I think I said something about, yeah, I saw you at Hope and I learned to pick.

1216
01:18:19,890 --> 01:18:21,550
He's like, come up here and show me, man.

1217
01:18:21,590 --> 01:18:24,310
I'm trying to embarrass my ass and I finally picked one for you, though.

1218
01:18:24,730 --> 01:18:26,790
By the way, you're a dick.

1219
01:18:27,190 --> 01:18:27,790
Why am I a dick?

1220
01:18:27,790 --> 01:18:33,990
I was sitting over in speaker registration and I saw a video of me and Barry on stage and you're like, by the way, that's Barry, you didn't fucking mention me.

1221
01:18:34,010 --> 01:18:36,850
Well, I'm sorry, it says your name in the link, Barry and Laz.

1222
01:18:36,930 --> 01:18:37,650
Thanks.

1223
01:18:40,590 --> 01:18:46,730
Alright, so simulating a pick gun with a bump key works as follows.

1224
01:18:47,890 --> 01:18:50,990
Take a key that was designed for your lock.

1225
01:18:50,990 --> 01:18:52,950
Notice I didn't say cut for your lock.

1226
01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:54,350
It doesn't have to be the right bidding.

1227
01:18:54,350 --> 01:18:59,470
It just has to be the right keyway that fits down into your lock.

1228
01:19:00,230 --> 01:19:03,470
Take that and cut all the bidding notches to the deepest level.

1229
01:19:03,710 --> 01:19:05,190
That's where you get 999.

1230
01:19:06,170 --> 01:19:08,810
Now I'm going to be burping from this friggin' beer.

1231
01:19:09,490 --> 01:19:11,970
You can do this with a key machine.

1232
01:19:12,310 --> 01:19:15,730
Go to your local hardware store and be like, can you cut it to 999?

1233
01:19:15,730 --> 01:19:18,370
The kid who's making 550 isn't going to ask you why.

1234
01:19:19,090 --> 01:19:22,350
Or you can do this with a Dremel.

1235
01:19:22,350 --> 01:19:24,650
You can do this with a lot of different tools.

1236
01:19:26,210 --> 01:19:28,850
I've hand cut them before and they will work.

1237
01:19:29,510 --> 01:19:32,870
Take this key and insert it into your lock.

1238
01:19:32,870 --> 01:19:33,910
Not all the way.

1239
01:19:33,910 --> 01:19:39,250
You'll actually feel as these ridges are going past the pins you'll feel it click, click, click as it goes in.

1240
01:19:39,510 --> 01:19:42,030
Make sure it's one pin stack out.

1241
01:19:43,030 --> 01:19:43,990
What's that?

1242
01:19:44,930 --> 01:19:48,610
Yeah, put it all the way in and just click it out by one.

1243
01:19:49,370 --> 01:19:55,850
Next thing you want to do is put a little bit of torque on this key and just smash the hell out of it.

1244
01:19:56,950 --> 01:19:58,730
You come at it with a force.

1245
01:19:59,030 --> 01:20:02,730
It bangs across all those ridges and you can see they connect.

1246
01:20:02,810 --> 01:20:07,550
Hopefully you'll hit all of them at the same time and all those top pins will jump up.

1247
01:20:12,010 --> 01:20:14,290
Yeah, you'll smash your hand a lot.

1248
01:20:15,490 --> 01:20:17,170
It's just how that goes.

1249
01:20:17,930 --> 01:20:24,630
One thing you often will get better luck with when you make a bump key, if you cut the shoulder back just a hair farther than it should this makes life a little bit easier.

1250
01:20:24,810 --> 01:20:28,350
It gives a little bit more wiggle room when you're bumping it and knocks them a little bit harder.

1251
01:20:28,370 --> 01:20:29,910
Not much of a difference but it does help.

1252
01:20:33,070 --> 01:20:37,090
This is a kind of what we'll call one grade up from master.

1253
01:20:37,690 --> 01:20:49,770
This is a fortress lock and this is a key that originally went to let me see if I have this one right originally went to a different fortress lock but I've cut it way down.

1254
01:20:50,650 --> 01:21:02,210
Now if I put this in this will not open this lock but if I pull it out by one I'm going to try to do this so everyone can work with the camera here.

1255
01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:04,430
The trick is a little and a lot.

1256
01:21:04,430 --> 01:21:07,990
A little bit of torque and a lot of a little bit of bang.

1257
01:21:08,850 --> 01:21:16,830
You actually want the sensation of the key slipping out of your fingertips as it's being knocked by the lock.

1258
01:21:19,650 --> 01:21:20,730
There you go.

1259
01:21:32,950 --> 01:21:34,630
You shouldn't have tried the second time, should you?

1260
01:21:35,070 --> 01:21:36,690
I was impressed the first time.

1261
01:21:38,790 --> 01:21:41,450
I'm pulling it too hard because I don't want to smash my thumbs.

1262
01:21:41,650 --> 01:21:42,450
Pussy.

1263
01:21:44,910 --> 01:21:46,170
Here, you do it then.

1264
01:21:46,230 --> 01:21:47,030
Shit, I don't do that.

1265
01:21:48,070 --> 01:21:49,670
That's why I have both colors for you.

1266
01:21:50,410 --> 01:21:51,690
So that's bump keying.

1267
01:21:51,810 --> 01:21:53,790
But there is a... I'm sorry, question.

1268
01:22:02,980 --> 01:22:04,440
You're a brighter man than I.

1269
01:22:04,860 --> 01:22:06,680
The question is why can't, you know, you just put...

1270
01:22:09,520 --> 01:22:11,520
Yeah, put a torque tool in there or on the key.

1271
01:22:11,520 --> 01:22:13,000
Yeah, you probably could do that.

1272
01:22:13,460 --> 01:22:15,520
I'm not thinking clearly apparently.

1273
01:22:15,780 --> 01:22:17,800
My thumb thanks you for that.

1274
01:22:19,120 --> 01:22:22,600
This is sort of the dirty bump method, if you will.

1275
01:22:22,600 --> 01:22:24,000
It's not that sophisticated.

1276
01:22:24,340 --> 01:22:29,640
There is an even better bump method that the guys in Tool in the Netherlands came up with.

1277
01:22:32,040 --> 01:22:33,300
I'm sorry, there's a question.

1278
01:22:33,300 --> 01:22:33,860
Where was it?

1279
01:22:33,860 --> 01:22:34,640
Left side.

1280
01:22:37,600 --> 01:22:38,760
Not exactly.

1281
01:22:38,760 --> 01:22:40,860
Raking, I didn't even cover raking that much.

1282
01:22:40,860 --> 01:22:42,380
We'll talk about it in the hands-on.

1283
01:22:42,380 --> 01:22:50,080
Raking is just beating up the pins independently, trying to just catch a bunch of shear lines at once on a crappier lock.

1284
01:22:50,540 --> 01:22:54,860
Bump keying actually is intended to hit all the pins simultaneously.

1285
01:23:05,220 --> 01:23:06,340
Oh, master wafer.

1286
01:23:06,340 --> 01:23:07,440
Yeah, that can happen.

1287
01:23:07,440 --> 01:23:10,820
The question was, we'll talk about master pinning in a little bit.

1288
01:23:12,160 --> 01:23:21,120
Master pinning sometimes involves very small pins inserted or actually wafer shaped pins inserted into the stack with a big gap introduced like that.

1289
01:23:21,120 --> 01:23:22,440
Can those flip and bind up?

1290
01:23:22,440 --> 01:23:23,920
Yes, that conceivably can happen.

1291
01:23:23,920 --> 01:23:27,160
It's not the most common thing because the gap is only there for a second.

1292
01:23:27,300 --> 01:23:29,160
But I imagine it could happen.

1293
01:23:29,260 --> 01:23:31,020
A little addendum to that.

1294
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:39,800
If that is happening, it's because the locksmith didn't follow the manufacturer's tolerances or the lock is wearing out because they have specific minimum wafer sizes so that doesn't happen.

1295
01:23:39,880 --> 01:23:42,680
Because that used to happen a tremendous amount with people using too small of a wafer.

1296
01:23:43,340 --> 01:23:43,900
There you go.

1297
01:23:43,900 --> 01:23:44,620
Thank you.

1298
01:23:45,300 --> 01:23:46,180
Shit, I got beer, man.

1299
01:23:46,180 --> 01:23:47,020
I'm running out.

1300
01:23:47,100 --> 01:23:47,700
Alright.

1301
01:23:49,140 --> 01:23:57,340
Now, with respect to the I said that was like the dirty bump technique there is a really nice bump technique that's been published by the guys in Tool.

1302
01:23:57,340 --> 01:23:59,760
It's called the Minimal Movement Bump.

1303
01:24:00,320 --> 01:24:02,140
They actually have a white paper about it.

1304
01:24:02,660 --> 01:24:10,960
This involves taking an existing bump key and at two different points heavily modifying this bump key even further.

1305
01:24:11,640 --> 01:24:20,720
You can shave off probably about a quarter to a half of a millimeter from the shoulder and a half of a millimeter or more from the tip.

1306
01:24:22,600 --> 01:24:25,560
Now this is a very, very unique modified key.

1307
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:31,040
If you have it in the lock you can even squeeze it a little deeper now because you've shaved the key down.

1308
01:24:31,160 --> 01:24:37,920
And you notice that as you squeeze it in the spring pressures from the driver pins up top will actually kind of kick it back out a millimeter or so.

1309
01:24:38,260 --> 01:24:46,900
This enables you to deliver a lot of force right where you want it very precisely without smashing across whole rows of pins.

1310
01:24:46,900 --> 01:24:48,020
You come at this.

1311
01:24:48,020 --> 01:24:50,460
They have a tool they call a tomahawk.

1312
01:24:50,500 --> 01:24:52,040
I've seen them whack right at it.

1313
01:24:52,040 --> 01:24:59,080
It comes right into beautiful force, delivered real clean and I've seen them bump really sophisticated like Barry mentioned.

1314
01:24:59,080 --> 01:25:02,040
Remember I said the geographical weakness on that V10?

1315
01:25:02,360 --> 01:25:07,440
He can make a bump key out of a V10 because the top part of the bidding will bump.

1316
01:25:07,440 --> 01:25:10,940
The bottom part of the bidding on the side bar just does its job normally.

1317
01:25:11,140 --> 01:25:12,740
He bumps his V10 that way.

1318
01:25:12,740 --> 01:25:14,560
He's bumped multi-locks that way I've heard.

1319
01:25:14,560 --> 01:25:20,000
I can't imagine how, but I guess the force just gets delivered because we talked about how the interactive pins work.

1320
01:25:21,780 --> 01:25:24,120
That's a very powerful attack.

1321
01:25:24,320 --> 01:25:26,580
It can, by the way, be bad for the lock.

1322
01:25:26,580 --> 01:25:31,840
If you have a family heirloom or something and you're like, I'm going to play with bump keying.

1323
01:25:32,120 --> 01:25:37,220
Don't do it if you care about the lock because I've destroyed locks doing this, especially if you do the dirty method.

1324
01:25:37,220 --> 01:25:38,300
It'll misshape the pins.

1325
01:25:38,300 --> 01:25:40,000
It'll really beat things up.

1326
01:25:40,220 --> 01:25:43,920
I've had locks that just don't even work anymore because I've bumped them to death.

1327
01:25:48,600 --> 01:25:50,100
We can cover that a little.

1328
01:25:50,100 --> 01:25:53,880
The question was, doesn't this leave clear indications that this has happened?

1329
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:54,960
There's forensic evidence.

1330
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:56,280
We can talk about that in a bit.

1331
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:57,420
I've got to keep moving through though.

1332
01:25:57,420 --> 01:25:58,560
We've got a lot of good stuff.

1333
01:26:00,020 --> 01:26:01,100
Wait, yes, question.

1334
01:26:06,680 --> 01:26:08,660
What keeps the key pins?

1335
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:15,340
Well, they can't fall down anymore because they're in the keyway as far down as they go.

1336
01:26:15,500 --> 01:26:19,220
And they're not going to jump up because we're transferring physical force through them.

1337
01:26:19,220 --> 01:26:21,940
So they're just going to sit right where they are.

1338
01:26:22,120 --> 01:26:23,880
They're not going to go up, they're not going to go down.

1339
01:26:24,020 --> 01:26:25,340
They have nowhere to go.

1340
01:26:25,860 --> 01:26:28,520
There's spring tension behind them so they're not staying suspended.

1341
01:26:28,520 --> 01:26:32,440
You have a half of a split second where they're up there and you're just catching that right moment.

1342
01:26:32,440 --> 01:26:33,900
They're not staying up there permanently.

1343
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:37,200
You're just hitting it and they stay there for a split second like throwing a ball in the air.

1344
01:26:37,540 --> 01:26:39,820
And while it's upright, just at the right height is when you grab it.

1345
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:40,760
Alright.

1346
01:26:42,220 --> 01:26:43,840
Let me cut you off for half a second.

1347
01:26:43,840 --> 01:26:46,580
General disclaimer, I don't know if you did this, I'm sorry I was registering.

1348
01:26:47,480 --> 01:26:49,040
You mentioned you can break locks.

1349
01:26:50,120 --> 01:26:53,000
Don't practice on your front door for a number of reasons.

1350
01:26:53,000 --> 01:26:58,100
One, because you may break the lock, but more importantly because your neighbors will call the cops because they don't know who you are.

1351
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:02,380
If you're going to practice on any door, try a back door or whatnot, but still you're going to get your ass locked out of your house.

1352
01:27:02,380 --> 01:27:04,500
So just go buy a $10 lock from Home Depot to practice.

1353
01:27:05,660 --> 01:27:06,740
Very, very good point.

1354
01:27:07,480 --> 01:27:09,160
So yes, this can be bad for the lock.

1355
01:27:09,160 --> 01:27:11,400
I've destroyed locks doing this.

1356
01:27:11,420 --> 01:27:16,700
Some of my locks, I've had to try to lubricate them to open them now because they're just broken and about lubrication.

1357
01:27:16,700 --> 01:27:18,740
The question for a Red Bull...

1358
01:27:21,520 --> 01:27:26,400
When, if ever, do you use WD-40 in a lock and why or why not?

1359
01:27:26,760 --> 01:27:28,060
Whoa, that was a lot of...

1360
01:27:28,060 --> 01:27:30,980
I think it was grayish blue shirt here.

1361
01:27:34,140 --> 01:27:35,180
Half right answer.

1362
01:27:35,180 --> 01:27:36,260
Get you a lighter.

1363
01:27:36,800 --> 01:27:38,040
Come on up for a lighter.

1364
01:27:52,870 --> 01:27:54,470
Oh, well it's a little bit...

1365
01:27:54,470 --> 01:27:59,810
You're kind of on the right track, but I'm looking for a solid answer on when, if ever, you can use WD.

1366
01:27:59,810 --> 01:28:01,490
I've got a guy down here with the glasses.

1367
01:28:03,050 --> 01:28:07,410
Well, his answer was never, and I'm saying that's not a completely accurate answer.

1368
01:28:12,270 --> 01:28:14,570
Well, you're all right around...

1369
01:28:14,570 --> 01:28:16,630
Basically, a lot of people are hitting this point.

1370
01:28:16,630 --> 01:28:17,950
The main point I wanted to make...

1371
01:28:17,950 --> 01:28:18,750
Hang on here.

1372
01:28:19,190 --> 01:28:20,070
My guy's in the front.

1373
01:28:20,070 --> 01:28:22,230
Just throw some lighter at these people with their hands up.

1374
01:28:22,310 --> 01:28:23,770
Because everyone kind of has it.

1375
01:28:23,950 --> 01:28:24,650
Keep your hands up.

1376
01:28:24,650 --> 01:28:25,570
I know who you are.

1377
01:28:26,170 --> 01:28:28,170
That, hey, extra hands just went up.

1378
01:28:30,210 --> 01:28:34,310
The point I wanted to make is WD-40 is not good...

1379
01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:35,870
You can... You got them?

1380
01:28:35,870 --> 01:28:36,510
These guys?

1381
01:28:36,510 --> 01:28:37,630
All right.

1382
01:28:37,790 --> 01:28:39,450
Start ripping with people's heads, dude.

1383
01:28:40,550 --> 01:28:42,150
WD-40... We got a guy...

1384
01:28:47,540 --> 01:28:48,120
Yes.

1385
01:28:48,180 --> 01:28:49,360
WD-40...

1386
01:28:49,360 --> 01:28:50,580
Did you get one?

1387
01:28:51,480 --> 01:28:52,520
Was that a question?

1388
01:28:59,510 --> 01:29:00,470
Very, very good.

1389
01:29:00,470 --> 01:29:01,770
He's got the full... You actually...

1390
01:29:01,770 --> 01:29:03,610
You get the Red Bull.

1391
01:29:07,350 --> 01:29:07,850
Yes.

1392
01:29:07,850 --> 01:29:08,110
All right.

1393
01:29:08,450 --> 01:29:09,510
We got to keep moving.

1394
01:29:09,510 --> 01:29:10,090
Here's the...

1395
01:29:10,090 --> 01:29:10,610
Oh, man.

1396
01:29:10,610 --> 01:29:12,050
We're really dying on time.

1397
01:29:12,070 --> 01:29:14,250
The deal is... Well, that's cool.

1398
01:29:14,250 --> 01:29:15,750
But we got a lot to cover.

1399
01:29:15,750 --> 01:29:17,170
I added a lot of shit.

1400
01:29:18,850 --> 01:29:19,810
WD-40...

1401
01:29:19,810 --> 01:29:24,590
Anybody who's in the service, especially the Navy, maybe you can tell me, what does WD-40 stand for?

1402
01:29:25,250 --> 01:29:27,590
Water displacement is exactly right.

1403
01:29:27,590 --> 01:29:43,170
Water displacer 40 was a formula designed to seep into maritime situations, to seep into all the cracks, to dry out in there, to actually make this little waxy buildup to keep water out of machinery so it didn't rust and corrode when it was in there.

1404
01:29:43,170 --> 01:29:45,590
It was not meant as a lubricant.

1405
01:29:45,590 --> 01:29:47,810
It's kind of the antithesis of a lubricant.

1406
01:29:47,810 --> 01:29:51,050
Yes, it's greasy when it goes in, but it doesn't stay that way.

1407
01:29:51,450 --> 01:29:54,670
There's essentially three kinds of lubricants out there.

1408
01:29:54,670 --> 01:29:58,810
There's wet lubricant, dry lubricant, and drying lubricant.

1409
01:29:58,810 --> 01:30:03,910
And everyone who's tuned in on the APTV system just right now, they're saying, what the hell talk is this?

1410
01:30:03,910 --> 01:30:04,370
Looking at the...

1411
01:30:05,950 --> 01:30:08,070
Did they move the schedule around?

1412
01:30:10,810 --> 01:30:13,570
Different situations call for different products.

1413
01:30:13,570 --> 01:30:23,770
If you have any precision mechanism, like, for instance, locks, you want to use exclusively a wet or oil-based lubricant, something that is going to go in wet and stay wet.

1414
01:30:23,770 --> 01:30:29,150
I use gun oil on most of my really, really high-end locks because it'll not foul the thing up.

1415
01:30:30,350 --> 01:30:36,710
Dirt and fouling can get into oil, and it can gum things up if you live in a really harsh environment.

1416
01:30:36,710 --> 01:30:47,970
If you have, let's say, a lock out in the desert somewhere, Las Vegas , any locals, maybe you want to use graphite powder in a lock like that because it'll go in dry and stay dry.

1417
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:51,410
It'll help, you know, it won't get too fouled up and gummed up.

1418
01:30:52,010 --> 01:30:53,210
That's right, it won't freeze.

1419
01:30:53,270 --> 01:30:57,410
But just know that WD-40 will attract dirt and fouling.

1420
01:30:57,410 --> 01:30:58,490
It'll trap it up.

1421
01:30:58,490 --> 01:31:06,970
The only time, by the way, the answer, the full answer I was looking for, the only time you use WD-40 is if the lock is jammed and you don't care about the lock.

1422
01:31:07,050 --> 01:31:13,030
If, you know, you've gone over to your aunt's house for Christmas and she says, oh, I think that's the trees out in the shed, the decorations.

1423
01:31:13,030 --> 01:31:17,670
And you go out there and it's a lock that someone hasn't opened since 1974 and it's rusted to hell.

1424
01:31:17,770 --> 01:31:26,650
Yeah, you can WD-40 it or you can soak it in kerosene and maybe it'll open and then you throw the lock away because it's not, that's not good for the future health of the lock.

1425
01:31:27,810 --> 01:31:28,530
Yes?

1426
01:31:31,750 --> 01:31:33,130
LPS makes a good product?

1427
01:31:33,130 --> 01:31:34,050
What is LPS?

1428
01:31:46,290 --> 01:31:47,010
Okay.

1429
01:31:48,030 --> 01:31:53,430
So yeah, he meant, the gentleman mentions industrial lubricants, high-end industrial lubricants are good.

1430
01:31:54,110 --> 01:31:58,050
Yeah, Google for LPS or check it out, Molly Coat, those are also good.

1431
01:31:59,290 --> 01:32:02,950
Let's talk about something that was referenced in the last talk.

1432
01:32:04,130 --> 01:32:05,270
Firearm locks.

1433
01:32:05,270 --> 01:32:09,610
How many, we got a lot of libertarian type people here at DEF CON, how many people are gun owners?

1434
01:32:10,010 --> 01:32:11,710
You don't have to raise your hands if you don't want to.

1435
01:32:12,150 --> 01:32:14,990
How many people lock your guns in some fashion?

1436
01:32:16,370 --> 01:32:21,050
What I'd like to see, maybe you don't have kids in the house, you don't have kids in your house, then you lock your door.

1437
01:32:21,050 --> 01:32:22,330
Do super soakers count?

1438
01:32:24,750 --> 01:32:38,030
We're going to talk about something that's very serious to me right now, just because it's a very important issue that people understand, the severe weaknesses of some locks, what they're designed to do, and what they're not designed to do.

1439
01:32:38,550 --> 01:32:44,910
I would like a volunteer, I know we have people on the goon squad, I know in fact Vairosa, you have time in the service.

1440
01:32:45,370 --> 01:32:46,650
Stand up for a second, man.

1441
01:32:46,650 --> 01:32:47,750
I'm going to use Lou.

1442
01:32:48,130 --> 01:32:49,750
Everyone, this is Vairosa.

1443
01:32:51,050 --> 01:32:52,690
Come on, stand up for the guy.

1444
01:32:56,170 --> 01:32:59,990
Vairosa has served, so he's going to be our authority for today.

1445
01:32:59,990 --> 01:33:12,270
I'd like, and this is for everyone's comfort, he's going to inspect a stage prop that I have that looks like a weapon, but we're going to take him at his authority that it is not a functioning firearm.

1446
01:33:12,390 --> 01:33:15,090
I want everyone to know this, I want everyone to be very...

1447
01:33:15,090 --> 01:33:16,930
Yeah, you haven't anything to drink, have you?

1448
01:33:17,810 --> 01:33:22,630
Is everyone comfortable with his authority as opposed to you physically inspecting it yourself?

1449
01:33:22,630 --> 01:33:28,710
If not, we can actually have someone else who is even more well known, if you'd like a priest or someone to come up.

1450
01:33:28,710 --> 01:33:30,210
But is everyone okay with Vairosa?

1451
01:33:31,010 --> 01:33:31,690
Alright.

1452
01:33:35,190 --> 01:33:38,110
Yeah, it really pisses off the TSA when you put that in your carry-on, by the way.

1453
01:33:38,150 --> 01:33:39,310
Yeah, FedEx.

1454
01:33:40,270 --> 01:33:44,510
So yeah, it should be a filed down firing pin, the barrel's solid.

1455
01:33:45,030 --> 01:33:46,690
Solid barrel will pretty much do the job.

1456
01:33:46,690 --> 01:33:47,250
Yeah.

1457
01:33:48,450 --> 01:33:50,990
Would you care to certify that this is a non-firing weapon?

1458
01:33:51,490 --> 01:33:52,930
I didn't see that it's non-firing.

1459
01:33:52,930 --> 01:33:55,210
There's nothing in it.

1460
01:33:55,250 --> 01:33:57,250
It's completely cored up.

1461
01:33:59,310 --> 01:34:00,590
It's a solid barrel.

1462
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:06,020
I don't know if you can see...

1463
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:07,200
Dude , don't worry.

1464
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:07,740
Alright.

1465
01:34:07,740 --> 01:34:09,860
Well, I'm just very serious about this.

1466
01:34:11,140 --> 01:34:11,940
Thank you.

1467
01:34:11,940 --> 01:34:12,580
Thank you.

1468
01:34:25,500 --> 01:34:29,900
How many people have ever used a trigger lock that looks like this?

1469
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:33,560
I'm very pleased that not too many people have.

1470
01:34:33,960 --> 01:34:44,380
When I was... God, I want to say I was 12 or 13, I got an air gun for my birthday, and a lock like this is what was installed on it.

1471
01:34:44,380 --> 01:34:50,220
I'm going to guess I was probably about 14 when I figured out how easy it was to bust this up.

1472
01:34:50,860 --> 01:34:54,160
And my parents were very proud that I actually was just so proud of the discovery.

1473
01:34:54,160 --> 01:34:55,200
I went and showed them right away.

1474
01:34:55,200 --> 01:34:56,860
They're like, wow, that's so neat.

1475
01:34:56,960 --> 01:34:58,560
This goes in our closet now.

1476
01:35:07,900 --> 01:35:13,640
This is your typical trigger lock.

1477
01:35:15,280 --> 01:35:21,560
Most vendors of trigger locks, there are two popular designs of trigger locks.

1478
01:35:21,580 --> 01:35:24,560
There are bad, and there's colossally bad.

1479
01:35:25,340 --> 01:35:28,240
Pretty much everyone explores these two designs of locks.

1480
01:35:29,200 --> 01:35:31,680
This is just in the bad category.

1481
01:35:33,600 --> 01:35:34,580
Can everyone see?

1482
01:35:34,580 --> 01:35:35,340
I feel bad.

1483
01:35:35,340 --> 01:35:36,980
This camera is so awful.

1484
01:35:36,980 --> 01:35:37,640
It's not bad.

1485
01:35:37,640 --> 01:35:38,060
No, you can see pretty good.

1486
01:35:38,060 --> 01:35:39,420
Alright, we'll do what we can.

1487
01:35:39,680 --> 01:35:40,500
So this is on.

1488
01:35:40,500 --> 01:35:42,620
It's installed the way it should go.

1489
01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:44,740
I'm going to take this tool

1490
01:35:48,000 --> 01:35:50,080
and I can't really see.

1491
01:35:52,660 --> 01:35:53,260
I'm going to have to...

1492
01:35:53,260 --> 01:35:57,500
I've got to move my camera so I can see what I'm doing a little better and get my hands in it.

1493
01:36:01,460 --> 01:36:03,520
It's upside down, but you guys can live with that.

1494
01:36:06,520 --> 01:36:07,600
Oh, am I out of frame?

1495
01:36:09,820 --> 01:36:12,880
For anyone who thinks he's out of frame, he's shoving a big-ass piece of metal in there.

1496
01:36:18,780 --> 01:36:20,700
Yeah, we don't have to applaud on that one.

1497
01:36:23,240 --> 01:36:25,480
This is a piece of wire, people.

1498
01:36:25,520 --> 01:36:27,860
This is a piece of fish snake.

1499
01:36:28,340 --> 01:36:29,300
There's a question?

1500
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:36,760
I wouldn't recommend trying it on a loaded weapon, that's for sure.

1501
01:36:40,680 --> 01:36:44,160
Right, you're never supposed to lock a loaded weapon, people are pointing out to me.

1502
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:46,000
Side note for you though, on that specific weapon, no.

1503
01:36:46,000 --> 01:36:46,920
On others, maybe.

1504
01:36:48,020 --> 01:36:52,240
Why in the hell is this possible?

1505
01:36:54,200 --> 01:36:57,040
Once again, the golden rule, the...

1506
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:58,340
I'm sorry.

1507
01:36:59,340 --> 01:37:02,800
Yeah, keep shouting at me if I'm out of frame, because I want you guys to see everything.

1508
01:37:03,000 --> 01:37:11,180
The golden rule of, you know, the triumph and peril of our capitalistic system is that the marketplace will regulate itself.

1509
01:37:12,160 --> 01:37:15,360
One of the marketplace forces is convenience, users' convenience.

1510
01:37:15,740 --> 01:37:16,960
How does this lock work?

1511
01:37:16,960 --> 01:37:24,440
Well, this lock just has a pillar down the middle, as you can see, and a bar that rotates.

1512
01:37:24,440 --> 01:37:24,890
Now this bar...

1513
01:37:25,520 --> 01:37:27,940
I wonder if I could focus this a little more.

1514
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:31,160
Nope, that's worse.

1515
01:37:32,780 --> 01:37:33,780
I'll take my word for it.

1516
01:37:33,780 --> 01:37:36,980
This bar, you can kind of see, has little teeth, notched teeth.

1517
01:37:37,720 --> 01:37:41,920
Now these teeth are exposed, and now these teeth are hidden.

1518
01:37:43,200 --> 01:37:54,320
Those teeth completely engage with teeth that you can barely see down a steel plate, down this barrel here.

1519
01:37:56,040 --> 01:38:00,560
This steel plate is spring-loaded.

1520
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:05,420
Why is that?

1521
01:38:05,420 --> 01:38:06,900
The man points it out.

1522
01:38:06,900 --> 01:38:15,400
So that if I want to lock this, and I don't have the key in it, I can just slide it together.

1523
01:38:16,340 --> 01:38:25,600
Do you know how fucking ridiculously simple it would be to make this steel plate solid?

1524
01:38:25,840 --> 01:38:29,680
Just make the bastard part of... you wouldn't even need the spring.

1525
01:38:30,820 --> 01:38:34,460
Just, you know, oh, I need to turn my key to lock it and secure it.

1526
01:38:34,460 --> 01:38:35,620
I'm out of frame again.

1527
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:38,940
I can't fathom why it was designed this way.

1528
01:38:39,040 --> 01:38:40,260
But it was.

1529
01:38:41,280 --> 01:38:42,620
This is not...

1530
01:38:43,540 --> 01:38:44,480
This is nothing.

1531
01:38:44,480 --> 01:38:45,800
This is just a joke.

1532
01:38:46,140 --> 01:38:47,460
I made this in no time.

1533
01:38:47,460 --> 01:38:50,100
I made this type of pick when I was 12.

1534
01:38:50,420 --> 01:38:53,340
They mentioned in the last talk, this information is out there.

1535
01:38:53,340 --> 01:38:54,680
How many of you have ever read about this?

1536
01:38:54,680 --> 01:38:56,200
How many of you have ever heard about this?

1537
01:38:56,200 --> 01:38:59,420
How many of you still use a lock, you know, a gun lock like this?

1538
01:38:59,940 --> 01:39:03,380
Nobody talks about this, because the information just doesn't get out.

1539
01:39:03,880 --> 01:39:10,820
I hope that if at least one of you goes home and tells somebody, maybe someone will stop using one of these, because it's really bad.

1540
01:39:10,820 --> 01:39:12,640
It's just a really bad design.

1541
01:39:16,930 --> 01:39:19,170
In the colossal... I'm sorry, we had a hand.

1542
01:39:19,570 --> 01:39:20,310
All right.

1543
01:39:23,450 --> 01:39:25,650
Who manufactures the blue lock was a question.

1544
01:39:25,650 --> 01:39:29,830
They are somebody I've beat up enough on on this talk already.

1545
01:39:31,010 --> 01:39:35,810
They're kind of litigious and I'm not going to say who makes it.

1546
01:39:35,850 --> 01:39:37,810
Go to any gun shop in America.

1547
01:39:37,810 --> 01:39:38,810
They're going to have a whole rack of them.

1548
01:39:38,810 --> 01:39:40,070
You can see who makes it.

1549
01:39:41,910 --> 01:39:43,130
Somebody said it.

1550
01:39:44,730 --> 01:39:50,270
These are the, just included for your edification, these are the colossally bad category.

1551
01:39:51,510 --> 01:39:53,170
What the hell is that?

1552
01:39:54,050 --> 01:39:55,990
I don't even know what this is.

1553
01:39:56,430 --> 01:39:58,210
But it's not a freaking lock.

1554
01:39:58,290 --> 01:40:02,550
You can beat this with a paper clip that you have to pop a CD out of a jam drive.

1555
01:40:05,400 --> 01:40:07,320
And we saw this is a slide lock.

1556
01:40:07,320 --> 01:40:11,320
This is what I was showing you earlier when I was playing with tubular pins.

1557
01:40:11,500 --> 01:40:13,420
A slide lock is a very nice idea.

1558
01:40:13,420 --> 01:40:19,220
It's a little more secure in that it locks the weapon completely out of battery, so it can't be engaged, fired, anything.

1559
01:40:19,420 --> 01:40:21,240
But, you know, I showed you this one.

1560
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:25,680
Great concept, but it's a really shitty tubular lock that's employing the mechanism.

1561
01:40:25,920 --> 01:40:29,740
Put a better lock on the end and maybe put a Medeco on the end of that and you might have a pretty decent lock.

1562
01:40:32,160 --> 01:40:33,920
Some people just use cable.

1563
01:40:33,920 --> 01:40:35,860
You can secure firearms with cable.

1564
01:40:35,980 --> 01:40:38,200
This is a very secure solution.

1565
01:40:38,440 --> 01:40:41,640
Make sure you use a coated cable so it doesn't rip up the innards of your gun.

1566
01:40:42,020 --> 01:40:49,340
Also, be aware that the majority of cable you're going to buy like this, this is going to be an Astacular 2000 series lock somehow.

1567
01:40:49,660 --> 01:40:51,640
They just come really bad.

1568
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:52,680
I don't know why.

1569
01:40:53,060 --> 01:40:54,800
And let's face it, this is not the best solution.

1570
01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:56,600
It's a very inelegant solution.

1571
01:40:57,680 --> 01:41:00,740
In general, why do I have this section in the talk now?

1572
01:41:01,700 --> 01:41:02,060
Everyone...

1573
01:41:02,060 --> 01:41:07,360
I think people here tend to be a little more clueful than the general public, so most of you should know this already.

1574
01:41:07,380 --> 01:41:10,060
These are not security devices.

1575
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:14,280
These are persuading or dissuading devices.

1576
01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:19,420
These are designed to prevent very little children from fouling around.

1577
01:41:19,420 --> 01:41:20,960
Oh, what's under daddy's drawer?

1578
01:41:20,960 --> 01:41:22,460
Here, they'll look at this.

1579
01:41:22,460 --> 01:41:23,540
These are designed to...

1580
01:41:23,540 --> 01:41:26,540
These are locks made by children for children, basically.

1581
01:41:28,100 --> 01:41:30,880
This will not thwart criminal behavior.

1582
01:41:30,880 --> 01:41:34,260
This will not thwart a curious teenager.

1583
01:41:35,100 --> 01:41:45,720
Many people, I don't always get agreement with this, but I'm betting this crowd will understand that if you have kids and you have guns, you show them what the hell they are when they're very young.

1584
01:41:45,720 --> 01:41:51,260
You teach them to respect them, you teach them not to play with them, and then you lock them the hell away from them.

1585
01:42:00,160 --> 01:42:04,320
But people who just want to, like, no, don't tell them anything, that's not the best solution.

1586
01:42:04,900 --> 01:42:05,860
What's up?

1587
01:42:07,440 --> 01:42:08,900
Oh, sorry, question.

1588
01:42:15,060 --> 01:42:15,780
That's a valid...

1589
01:42:15,780 --> 01:42:22,120
If you have a very easily field-strippable weapon, just strip it out, take the firing pin out, put that in a secure place.

1590
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:25,660
Well, the man makes a point down here.

1591
01:42:25,660 --> 01:42:28,180
Someone else could acquire another one and put it back in.

1592
01:42:28,240 --> 01:42:33,080
So, you know, you guys are all smart enough, you can come up with solutions, but just keep this on your radar.

1593
01:42:33,080 --> 01:42:35,280
One question and then we gotta keep it on...

1594
01:42:41,610 --> 01:42:42,330
Yes.

1595
01:42:45,190 --> 01:42:47,690
Those are the under desk type models, and yeah.

1596
01:42:49,010 --> 01:42:53,010
Yeah, he mentioned the Colt Corporation, and I do love their weapons.

1597
01:42:53,070 --> 01:43:04,530
They make a very nice box that it just has, it's almost like a hand pad, and you can feel the buttons, and if you know the order, you program the order in, you can just feel it pop, pop, pop, pop, pop, and then you can, you know, open it up.

1598
01:43:04,710 --> 01:43:10,810
Any type of safe, or any type of box that you put a gun in is much better than just throwing a lock on the gun.

1599
01:43:14,120 --> 01:43:18,120
Yeah, there's a lot of better gun locks out there that we can talk about some more.

1600
01:43:18,480 --> 01:43:23,320
We're good, we still have like 45 minutes because we're rolling into the next half hour, so we can, we're still doing alright.

1601
01:43:24,500 --> 01:43:26,300
Quick ones on handcuffs.

1602
01:43:26,680 --> 01:43:30,000
We're, you know, more for the law enforcement crowd, I guess, guns to handcuffs.

1603
01:43:30,720 --> 01:43:35,200
Anybody who doesn't know how handcuffs work, this is gonna be a real real brief overview.

1604
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:37,820
Inside of a handcuff looks something like this.

1605
01:43:37,820 --> 01:43:44,380
You have a little ratcheting arm, and this paw that spins around has teeth on it that the arm engages.

1606
01:43:45,180 --> 01:43:47,780
It's why you can spin the paw one way and not the other.

1607
01:43:49,060 --> 01:43:56,340
When you stick a key in the lock, and you turn that key, it just lifts up the arm.

1608
01:43:56,340 --> 01:43:58,860
That's what the inside of a handcuff looks like.

1609
01:43:59,300 --> 01:44:03,760
You can see how it's, you can jam almost anything in a handcuff and just try to, you know, flip the thing.

1610
01:44:03,760 --> 01:44:07,080
And besides, a handcuff key is a dollar, so it's not that hard to do.

1611
01:44:07,080 --> 01:44:10,520
You can shim hand, you can do a whole lot with handcuffs that are kind of outside of the scope of this.

1612
01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,060
We can, I don't have any to play with, so if anybody else does, we can play with them later.

1613
01:44:17,600 --> 01:44:17,880
Um...

1614
01:44:18,560 --> 01:44:21,220
That could have been interpreted differently, I guess.

1615
01:44:24,200 --> 01:44:32,480
Could anyone tell me for a Red Bull... I gotta clear some of this out of the way.

1616
01:44:35,520 --> 01:44:39,660
What is the little pin for on the back of a hand?

1617
01:44:39,660 --> 01:44:41,140
I saw a hand right here.

1618
01:44:47,450 --> 01:44:48,490
Everything alright?

1619
01:44:49,070 --> 01:44:50,390
Hang on, yeah, he got it.

1620
01:44:50,390 --> 01:44:52,790
The answer is, what is the little pin for?

1621
01:44:52,790 --> 01:44:56,130
It is a double lock mechanism on a handcuff.

1622
01:44:57,150 --> 01:45:08,930
The little hole that's on the back of a handcuff, that most people don't realize it's there for a reason, if you stick the pin in there on the back of a key, it'll actually put a bar in that prevents the pawl from I'm sorry, the ratchet from moving at all.

1623
01:45:08,930 --> 01:45:12,230
So it can't get any tighter, it can't get any looser, you can't shim it.

1624
01:45:12,430 --> 01:45:15,750
To open it, you see it's actually a two-step process to open it.

1625
01:45:21,320 --> 01:45:23,080
Yeah, yeah, double lock.

1626
01:45:23,080 --> 01:45:30,900
In fact, anybody who's ever been in custody, maybe in a street protest or something, and they over-tighten you on purpose, but no, I don't have anything negative to say about that.

1627
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:35,780
They're supposed to double lock you all the time, because it's actually for your own safety.

1628
01:45:35,780 --> 01:45:40,560
So the cuffs, if you wriggle or you sit in the back of the car, they don't get tighter on you when you're in them.

1629
01:45:40,820 --> 01:45:46,760
Most officers don't do that, and it's, you know, I assume you should.

1630
01:45:46,760 --> 01:45:47,700
Does anyone here a cop?

1631
01:45:47,700 --> 01:45:48,440
Do you do that?

1632
01:45:48,540 --> 01:45:50,980
Anybody in here who's a law enforcement officer do a double lock?

1633
01:45:52,820 --> 01:45:55,460
So we spot the fed.

1634
01:45:59,380 --> 01:46:00,400
Yeah, they should.

1635
01:46:00,580 --> 01:46:03,440
Frankly, it's funny, but that's true.

1636
01:46:03,440 --> 01:46:06,660
Most of my friends who go to protests will request that.

1637
01:46:06,660 --> 01:46:09,880
They'll say, you know, I request, please make sure you double lock this, sir.

1638
01:46:10,100 --> 01:46:17,740
And so they don't get, because if you've ever friggin' been cuffed at a protest, you're going to be thrown in a bus somewhere for like six hours, and they're going to take two more hours to process you.

1639
01:46:17,740 --> 01:46:21,060
If you're turning blue in the hands, it sucks really bad.

1640
01:46:23,780 --> 01:46:24,460
Yes.

1641
01:46:25,660 --> 01:46:26,620
Yeah.

1642
01:46:34,750 --> 01:46:40,750
Yes, the gentleman makes the point that cooperating tends to, you'll be treated a lot better when they're locking you up.

1643
01:46:43,710 --> 01:46:45,430
Oh, we're going to get a demo?

1644
01:46:45,510 --> 01:46:46,770
All right.

1645
01:46:56,710 --> 01:47:01,610
Once again, Agent X, everybody, let's thank him for doing this.

1646
01:47:49,080 --> 01:47:50,420
Have you done this?

1647
01:47:51,120 --> 01:47:52,640
Never slammed them against a table.

1648
01:47:55,950 --> 01:47:56,830
Yeah!

1649
01:48:09,420 --> 01:48:16,040
The trick is that, like you talked about all the mechanisms inside, you've got to whack this, and it'll just slide.

1650
01:48:16,820 --> 01:48:20,340
And most of the cops are really good about keeping their kit well-oiled.

1651
01:48:20,660 --> 01:48:22,420
There's even special handcuff oils.

1652
01:48:22,620 --> 01:48:29,960
So, you have to whack it somewhere, which you'll see magicians do, is they'll put like a little metal piece of something in their pants, and they'll whack it against that.

1653
01:48:30,660 --> 01:48:33,200
But usually you can find something to do it against.

1654
01:48:33,260 --> 01:48:35,360
I find the hardest part is getting them in front.

1655
01:48:35,360 --> 01:48:36,500
It'll kill you.

1656
01:48:36,920 --> 01:48:38,120
That's really dangerous.

1657
01:48:38,120 --> 01:48:45,160
I've gotten myself, by myself, in my apartment, with these, at the end of my seat.

1658
01:48:45,440 --> 01:48:47,240
It's incredibly painful.

1659
01:48:48,320 --> 01:48:49,920
Why were you wearing a thong?

1660
01:48:49,920 --> 01:48:51,140
I wasn't wearing a thong.

1661
01:48:51,140 --> 01:48:53,560
Have you taken that off?

1662
01:49:07,880 --> 01:49:08,600
Yeah, yeah.

1663
01:49:17,420 --> 01:49:20,700
He's showing whereabouts he whacked it, according to the request.

1664
01:49:21,020 --> 01:49:23,040
Here's the handcuffs.

1665
01:49:24,700 --> 01:49:27,240
And this is the pin they set right there.

1666
01:49:27,380 --> 01:49:28,980
You can see it right there.

1667
01:49:29,520 --> 01:49:32,360
So, what I'm doing is unsetting the pin.

1668
01:49:32,360 --> 01:49:35,820
They have to turn the key both ways, so what you do is just go, whack!

1669
01:49:36,040 --> 01:49:39,620
And it comes right down, and then you can shim it.

1670
01:49:39,620 --> 01:49:42,180
Don't shim it too much, or it's really painful.

1671
01:49:43,580 --> 01:49:47,100
If you do that while in custody, you're fucked, by the way, unless you get away.

1672
01:49:47,740 --> 01:49:48,980
Don't fuck around.

1673
01:49:49,260 --> 01:49:55,740
We're having fun talking about a lot of this, but more than anything, don't be that cutesy guy who's getting out of the squad car at the station.

1674
01:50:00,820 --> 01:50:02,040
Yeah, Mr.

1675
01:50:02,040 --> 01:50:03,060
Face, meet Mr.

1676
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:03,800
Pavement.

1677
01:50:04,980 --> 01:50:07,220
It's funny if your friends are cops to fuck with them, though.

1678
01:50:07,220 --> 01:50:08,000
It really is.

1679
01:50:08,000 --> 01:50:14,440
By the way, if you show this to the cops, it freaks them out.

1680
01:50:14,760 --> 01:50:19,020
The main reason I learned this is not because I ever have trouble with the law.

1681
01:50:19,080 --> 01:50:20,820
It's because this is really a mental thing.

1682
01:50:20,820 --> 01:50:22,600
People are like, I can't get out of handcuffs.

1683
01:50:22,600 --> 01:50:23,580
It's impossible.

1684
01:50:23,860 --> 01:50:25,040
I can show you how to do it.

1685
01:50:25,040 --> 01:50:26,200
It's not that hard.

1686
01:50:26,940 --> 01:50:28,720
It's kind of a gateless barrier thing.

1687
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:29,800
Give it a try.

1688
01:50:36,320 --> 01:50:38,720
Come to the THF talk at 4 in the tent.

1689
01:50:38,720 --> 01:50:39,560
We need your money.

1690
01:50:40,820 --> 01:50:41,980
And we're going to have a whole...

1691
01:50:41,980 --> 01:50:45,960
Once we wrap this up, we're going to move it into the contest area where the lockpick contest is.

1692
01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:47,860
We're going to do a whole hands-on session.

1693
01:50:48,020 --> 01:50:49,620
I'll take as much time as you guys want.

1694
01:50:49,620 --> 01:50:51,480
I'm going to have a lot of kits you can play with.

1695
01:50:51,760 --> 01:50:54,540
I ask that you give me $20-$25.

1696
01:50:54,540 --> 01:50:56,680
And if you return it, you can have the $25.

1697
01:50:56,720 --> 01:50:58,280
But I don't want them to walk away.

1698
01:50:58,460 --> 01:50:59,280
A lot of locks.

1699
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:00,580
We're going to have a good time.

1700
01:51:00,580 --> 01:51:02,760
So come on in if we run out of time here for questions.

1701
01:51:02,780 --> 01:51:03,840
We'll do it in there.

1702
01:51:06,700 --> 01:51:08,560
Can you carry a lockpick in your check bag?

1703
01:51:08,560 --> 01:51:10,240
I'll talk about that in the legal section.

1704
01:51:10,480 --> 01:51:11,700
Do you have a legal section?

1705
01:51:11,740 --> 01:51:13,060
Dude, you really did add a lot of shit.

1706
01:51:14,020 --> 01:51:15,780
Alright, we've really got to fly through.

1707
01:51:15,780 --> 01:51:17,180
We've got about a half hour left.

1708
01:51:17,220 --> 01:51:18,960
And I have like 150 slides.

1709
01:51:18,960 --> 01:51:20,600
So we're maybe two-thirds of the way through.

1710
01:51:22,460 --> 01:51:23,380
Really quick.

1711
01:51:23,380 --> 01:51:24,340
Wafer locks.

1712
01:51:24,540 --> 01:51:26,280
Just going to cover what they are.

1713
01:51:26,520 --> 01:51:27,880
They're not that sophisticated.

1714
01:51:27,900 --> 01:51:29,040
Oh, what happened?

1715
01:51:29,440 --> 01:51:31,780
Is there another cooler talk than me?

1716
01:51:36,350 --> 01:51:39,110
Imagine when we do the topless section for all you guys leaving.

1717
01:51:39,250 --> 01:51:41,870
Alright, let's just blow through a lot of this now.

1718
01:51:42,010 --> 01:51:42,990
Wafer locks.

1719
01:51:42,990 --> 01:51:49,110
If you look at a lock, notice how this lock, there's no upper mechanism up here.

1720
01:51:49,170 --> 01:51:51,270
This lock just kind of cuts off right here.

1721
01:51:51,270 --> 01:51:54,570
There's no space where a pin stack could be hiding.

1722
01:51:54,570 --> 01:51:56,950
There's no room up here for springs and pins.

1723
01:51:57,050 --> 01:51:58,990
This is an entirely different type of mechanism.

1724
01:51:58,990 --> 01:52:00,470
It's called a wafer mechanism.

1725
01:52:00,570 --> 01:52:03,290
They're popular in very compact places.

1726
01:52:03,290 --> 01:52:07,510
A lot of filing cabinets, a lot of display racks and things use wafer locks.

1727
01:52:07,510 --> 01:52:09,870
Also automobiles, but they're more sophisticated.

1728
01:52:11,230 --> 01:52:12,250
Not alone.

1729
01:52:12,510 --> 01:52:19,070
If you look at a wafer from the front, and you cut on into it, this is the inside of a wafer lock, essentially.

1730
01:52:19,070 --> 01:52:21,590
And there's stacks of these wafers in a row.

1731
01:52:21,950 --> 01:52:24,850
The wafers have to be raised to the right height, and they'll clear.

1732
01:52:24,850 --> 01:52:26,250
It's not that difficult.

1733
01:52:26,950 --> 01:52:29,630
There are complex wafers that are double-sided.

1734
01:52:29,630 --> 01:52:31,690
You can see if you raise them too high, they won't go.

1735
01:52:31,690 --> 01:52:32,990
Too low, they won't go.

1736
01:52:33,110 --> 01:52:37,810
And all they'll have to do is just have this rectangle cut in different places on the wafer.

1737
01:52:37,810 --> 01:52:39,570
So that's how the key cutting works.

1738
01:52:39,970 --> 01:52:42,850
Wafers are a really interesting sort of mix.

1739
01:52:43,050 --> 01:52:49,390
They're very unsophisticated, but they don't lend themselves very well to most picking techniques.

1740
01:52:49,730 --> 01:52:52,090
You can kind of pin-by-pin pick them, right?

1741
01:52:52,090 --> 01:52:54,570
But most people just use what's called jigglers.

1742
01:52:54,650 --> 01:52:57,990
And you just jam it in, bang it all around, and hope for the best.

1743
01:52:57,990 --> 01:53:02,110
And you get about as good a result as you would get if you just tried to individually pick it.

1744
01:53:05,290 --> 01:53:10,970
Yeah, raking, jiggling, the unsophisticated bang attack ends up a lot better.

1745
01:53:11,790 --> 01:53:13,390
Alright, still moving along.

1746
01:53:13,590 --> 01:53:15,050
Rotating disc locks.

1747
01:53:15,050 --> 01:53:17,750
Not going to talk too much about these, because I can't pick them.

1748
01:53:17,750 --> 01:53:18,770
I don't even own some.

1749
01:53:18,770 --> 01:53:19,670
Anything you want to say?

1750
01:53:19,670 --> 01:53:21,710
Or should we just show Barry and you doing a video?

1751
01:53:22,470 --> 01:53:23,170
Show a video?

1752
01:53:23,170 --> 01:53:24,290
I was drunk that day.

1753
01:53:24,490 --> 01:53:27,210
If you have any questions...

1754
01:53:27,210 --> 01:53:29,390
There's this brand called Abus.

1755
01:53:29,790 --> 01:53:31,370
As a side note...

1756
01:53:31,370 --> 01:53:33,270
Yeah, so this is the fucking video of me on the other side.

1757
01:53:33,270 --> 01:53:34,230
He didn't tell me.

1758
01:53:36,950 --> 01:53:39,810
Schedule, if you look at your schedule, there were two talks today.

1759
01:53:39,810 --> 01:53:43,490
First is two hour intro, then another hour on high security stuff specifically.

1760
01:53:43,490 --> 01:53:47,470
Due to some scheduling conflicts, the high security stuff was cut down to about a half an hour.

1761
01:53:47,490 --> 01:53:49,110
And Paul Graham will be coming and giving a speech.

1762
01:53:49,110 --> 01:53:50,890
And we'll go through all that right before we're done.

1763
01:53:51,090 --> 01:53:54,650
So just for anyone who has high security questions, hold it off until a little bit later.

1764
01:53:54,910 --> 01:53:56,610
This is real quick though, just showing you.

1765
01:53:56,610 --> 01:54:01,470
And they had on their website this very challenging text saying, nobody can pick our locks.

1766
01:54:01,470 --> 01:54:06,710
No locksmith, no test institute, no burglars are ever known to pick our locks.

1767
01:54:06,950 --> 01:54:09,830
And this is actually the type of key...

1768
01:54:09,830 --> 01:54:10,730
Okay.

1769
01:54:10,730 --> 01:54:11,690
Okay.

1770
01:54:13,270 --> 01:54:16,530
Don't you love when someone says it's impossible?

1771
01:54:16,610 --> 01:54:19,190
Isn't that just so great when you prove them wrong?

1772
01:54:21,130 --> 01:54:22,370
Okay.

1773
01:54:23,530 --> 01:54:24,290
In focus.

1774
01:54:24,290 --> 01:54:25,810
Hope everybody can see.

1775
01:54:26,110 --> 01:54:30,670
In Germany, from my German lockpicking friends, I bought this tool.

1776
01:54:32,830 --> 01:54:34,450
Nobody leave.

1777
01:54:34,510 --> 01:54:36,960
And it's this tool.

1778
01:54:38,500 --> 01:54:41,220
And it's called the Fall tool, because Mr.

1779
01:54:41,220 --> 01:54:43,160
Fall made it.

1780
01:54:43,160 --> 01:54:45,480
And it's a decoder pick.

1781
01:54:45,480 --> 01:54:48,900
It picks the lock, but it also reads the lock.

1782
01:54:48,900 --> 01:54:50,540
So you can make the key.

1783
01:54:50,560 --> 01:54:57,940
Here you can see what pin you are picking.

1784
01:54:57,940 --> 01:55:02,020
And here you can see the depth of the key.

1785
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:08,660
With this tool you can open the lock that they claimed on their website could not be picked.

1786
01:55:08,840 --> 01:55:11,760
It was a real challenge for us to pick it.

1787
01:55:13,180 --> 01:55:17,820
What they do with this lock is they have discs in the lock.

1788
01:55:17,820 --> 01:55:19,620
There's no pins but discs.

1789
01:55:19,860 --> 01:55:22,340
I'll just show you a few of these discs.

1790
01:55:22,340 --> 01:55:24,500
I hope

1791
01:55:28,940 --> 01:55:30,260
I'm in focus.

1792
01:55:36,620 --> 01:55:42,060
Okay, well here you can see the discs that are inside.

1793
01:55:42,200 --> 01:55:44,220
And here's the real notch.

1794
01:55:44,220 --> 01:55:47,040
And they put some fake notches in as well.

1795
01:55:47,160 --> 01:55:54,420
So when you start manipulating the lock you'll experience like it's in the right position.

1796
01:55:54,420 --> 01:55:56,080
But it's actually not.

1797
01:55:56,080 --> 01:56:02,080
And it took us quite a while to figure out how to actually pick this lock because of the false notches.

1798
01:56:02,460 --> 01:56:11,960
And then Paul, Paul Crowell from Montelus, he found out that there's a technique that if you put the pick in the lock.

1799
01:56:20,060 --> 01:56:22,380
Wow, that's a big thumb.

1800
01:56:26,360 --> 01:56:34,860
Okay, now I'm at the first disc and I'm trying to feel the cuts.

1801
01:56:34,860 --> 01:56:36,040
Here's one cut.

1802
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:37,040
Go

1803
01:56:40,140 --> 01:56:41,860
to disc two.

1804
01:56:47,890 --> 01:56:50,250
How many discs are usually in there?

1805
01:56:50,270 --> 01:56:51,330
Like eight.

1806
01:56:55,170 --> 01:56:57,630
I should have cut this video down, I apologize.

1807
01:56:57,810 --> 01:56:59,390
It's possible to get a false cut.

1808
01:56:59,670 --> 01:57:05,710
Now, what Paul found out about these false cuts is that they are actually just a little bit tighter.

1809
01:57:05,710 --> 01:57:07,770
So what you do is you go to one disc.

1810
01:57:07,950 --> 01:57:10,250
You feel hey, okay, it's getting.

1811
01:57:10,350 --> 01:57:11,890
And you feel it's getting again.

1812
01:57:12,210 --> 01:57:19,130
And you just go for the widest you just go from one point of the cut to the other.

1813
01:57:19,130 --> 01:57:21,650
And the widest is the right cut.

1814
01:57:21,910 --> 01:57:23,650
And that actually was the trick.

1815
01:57:23,650 --> 01:57:28,390
You have to feel the cuts.

1816
01:57:29,690 --> 01:57:30,750
Okay, it's open.

1817
01:57:31,470 --> 01:57:32,570
Applause.

1818
01:57:44,070 --> 01:57:46,950
Abes made an improvement on the lock.

1819
01:57:46,950 --> 01:57:52,610
So that this tool actually only works at a certain range of their locks.

1820
01:57:52,610 --> 01:57:57,570
But the people from the German sport group they made a tool that beats that.

1821
01:57:58,570 --> 01:58:02,790
At this moment there is a negotiation with Abes what to do.

1822
01:58:03,670 --> 01:58:11,130
But when Abes they just had to take the text down and now you read our locks are really secure and very hard to pick.

1823
01:58:11,270 --> 01:58:14,630
They don't say it's impossible to pick anymore.

1824
01:58:17,490 --> 01:58:19,590
So that's rotating discs.

1825
01:58:19,850 --> 01:58:21,410
Gotta really keep moving here.

1826
01:58:21,410 --> 01:58:23,210
Alright, Master Keying Theory.

1827
01:58:23,210 --> 01:58:26,390
Once again, how many people were in the last talk with Mark and Matt?

1828
01:58:26,570 --> 01:58:31,290
So they mentioned that there was a big fuss about this.

1829
01:58:31,290 --> 01:58:34,350
About, oh why are people disclosing these secrets?

1830
01:58:34,350 --> 01:58:39,910
This has been known to people all over for a long time but it's just not talked about publicly that often.

1831
01:58:41,190 --> 01:58:47,870
Master Locks, Master not the brand but you know Master Systems where there's different levels of escalated privilege.

1832
01:58:47,870 --> 01:58:53,290
That's achieved by an additional wafer or an additional pin in the stack.

1833
01:58:53,610 --> 01:58:56,750
It's a standard stack but it just has more pins.

1834
01:58:56,950 --> 01:59:00,510
So a Master Pinned Lock might look something like this.

1835
01:59:00,510 --> 01:59:04,270
I say might because there's a couple types of Mastering Conventions.

1836
01:59:04,890 --> 01:59:10,090
For a Red Bull, a lighter and one of those hard drives do we have any more frack?

1837
01:59:10,090 --> 01:59:11,330
No, no more frack.

1838
01:59:11,330 --> 01:59:17,870
Can anyone tell me which of the two Master Pinning Systems which type this is?

1839
01:59:19,010 --> 01:59:20,030
No one.

1840
01:59:20,130 --> 01:59:20,890
Silence.

1841
01:59:20,990 --> 01:59:21,890
Can you tell me?

1842
01:59:22,010 --> 01:59:23,410
I don't know what the fuck the question means.

1843
01:59:23,410 --> 01:59:24,390
I know a lot about this stuff.

1844
01:59:24,390 --> 01:59:28,870
Well there are, this is what's called TPP or Total Position Progression Master.

1845
01:59:28,870 --> 01:59:33,030
There's another type called RC or Rotating Constant which is a different algorithm.

1846
01:59:33,170 --> 01:59:33,850
Oh well.

1847
01:59:33,950 --> 01:59:37,710
I'll just give some, whoever can ask me cool questions at the end, I'll give you hard drives for that.

1848
01:59:37,830 --> 01:59:38,570
Can I have one?

1849
01:59:38,810 --> 01:59:39,570
Yeah, sure.

1850
01:59:40,170 --> 01:59:50,150
Alright, so Master you can see how let's see, you might have a user with the lowest end of the totem pole is just called a change key.

1851
01:59:50,330 --> 01:59:52,790
That's you know, just will open this one lock.

1852
01:59:53,310 --> 01:59:55,410
But you might have a master key.

1853
01:59:55,410 --> 01:59:59,010
If you have a key, now this is obviously very exaggerated.

1854
01:59:59,190 --> 02:00:03,150
If you have a master cut key, these red pins are different.

1855
02:00:03,150 --> 02:00:05,730
These shear lines are different throughout every lock.

1856
02:00:05,730 --> 02:00:09,910
But the combination of a red and a green, and you know these aren't the real colors.

1857
02:00:09,910 --> 02:00:17,890
The combination of the key pin and a master pin together, that is universal throughout all the locks in let's say one facility.

1858
02:00:17,930 --> 02:00:24,610
So a master key would always be able to find this shear line no matter what lock was in what door.

1859
02:00:24,610 --> 02:00:28,470
Whereas a person's change key would only work on their door.

1860
02:00:29,410 --> 02:00:44,070
However, and many of us who had college dorms with master keyed systems played with this, there is a very, very simple way that if you have any key that works in the system, you can very easily make a master key.

1861
02:00:44,670 --> 02:00:45,510
Sometimes.

1862
02:00:45,670 --> 02:00:47,230
Would you like to know how?

1863
02:00:50,830 --> 02:00:53,110
That's pretty much where it starts to go to.

1864
02:00:53,110 --> 02:00:54,330
This is what happens.

1865
02:00:54,330 --> 02:00:55,730
Let's say I have this key.

1866
02:00:55,990 --> 02:00:58,710
And it opens my door to my, let's say dorm room.

1867
02:00:59,250 --> 02:01:02,130
I take it out and I file this down.

1868
02:01:02,630 --> 02:01:06,350
And I say, well that screws me because now I can't get into my room.

1869
02:01:06,630 --> 02:01:08,350
Because you can see this is binding.

1870
02:01:09,190 --> 02:01:12,310
Well I better keep filing it because I got to get my room somehow.

1871
02:01:12,310 --> 02:01:13,650
Keep filing.

1872
02:01:13,830 --> 02:01:14,850
Keep filing.

1873
02:01:19,950 --> 02:01:25,890
Well it couldn't be higher because then you'd have a bottom pin that's completely out of the shear line.

1874
02:01:25,890 --> 02:01:27,370
So it has to be lower.

1875
02:01:30,890 --> 02:01:31,650
I see what you're saying.

1876
02:01:31,650 --> 02:01:32,590
We're going to touch on that.

1877
02:01:32,590 --> 02:01:36,290
There is a vendor that has two completely independent shear lines.

1878
02:01:38,550 --> 02:01:38,990
Oh yeah.

1879
02:01:39,050 --> 02:01:48,450
Bump keying and picking is easier on traditional master keyed systems because if you bump or you pick, you might pick half of these at a master height.

1880
02:01:48,450 --> 02:01:49,650
The lock doesn't care.

1881
02:01:49,650 --> 02:01:52,110
As long as you got shear lines going on, it's going to open.

1882
02:01:52,250 --> 02:01:57,690
So yeah, if you have a really poorly engineered master pinned lock, you just... there it goes.

1883
02:01:58,670 --> 02:02:04,970
But a very nice mastering type system, a very nice system is made by Best.

1884
02:02:04,970 --> 02:02:06,690
And they're called SFIC.

1885
02:02:06,690 --> 02:02:08,810
Small Format Interchangeable Core.

1886
02:02:08,810 --> 02:02:10,510
Best is the most popular vendor.

1887
02:02:10,510 --> 02:02:11,970
Some other vendors make them.

1888
02:02:12,050 --> 02:02:15,250
These are very easily managed locks.

1889
02:02:15,250 --> 02:02:18,970
It's very, very popular in large enterprise deployments when you have...

1890
02:02:18,970 --> 02:02:22,250
you're trying to manage logistics and you're swapping out core.

1891
02:02:22,250 --> 02:02:23,930
You're trying to manage who's who.

1892
02:02:23,930 --> 02:02:33,130
The best lock or the SFIC, this figure eight shape, you can pull this whole core right out of the lock with the use of what's called a control key.

1893
02:02:34,790 --> 02:02:37,770
This lock core, the pins are all sitting up here.

1894
02:02:37,830 --> 02:02:38,850
There's a plug in here.

1895
02:02:38,850 --> 02:02:42,190
The control key engages what's called a control sleeve.

1896
02:02:42,650 --> 02:02:45,530
And you can see this sleeve has a big piece sticking out the side.

1897
02:02:45,530 --> 02:02:48,910
If that sleeve is engaged , it's not going to pull out of the lock.

1898
02:02:48,910 --> 02:03:01,570
But if you stick a control key in, turn it, and actually rotate the plug and the sleeve all at once, you can actually rotate the sleeve out of the way, pull the whole lock out, and then that can be... you can eject the pins, you can manage who's what,

1899
02:03:01,570 --> 02:03:03,050
you can swap the cores very easily.

1900
02:03:03,050 --> 02:03:04,290
They're very nicely made.

1901
02:03:05,490 --> 02:03:09,110
This is also a disaster to try to pick with normal tools.

1902
02:03:10,350 --> 02:03:13,830
If you just... you can see this is the brown is sort of the control sleeve.

1903
02:03:13,830 --> 02:03:15,610
The light color is the plug.

1904
02:03:15,950 --> 02:03:18,970
These shear lines are completely independent of one another.

1905
02:03:18,970 --> 02:03:26,410
So you have the top shear, the bottom shear, and if you stick... this is a regular key, this would be a control key.

1906
02:03:27,310 --> 02:03:34,430
If you stick a regular wrench in there, and you tension it, you're going to get binding all across these shear lines.

1907
02:03:34,590 --> 02:03:40,570
So going in and trying to lift pins up, you're almost always going to not pick them all at the right shear line.

1908
02:03:40,570 --> 02:03:44,110
You're going to catch some top, some low, you're not going to get it picked.

1909
02:03:44,550 --> 02:03:46,130
Matt Blaze did the math on this.

1910
02:03:46,130 --> 02:03:49,650
You know, the odds and the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly are not good.

1911
02:03:50,650 --> 02:04:00,170
There is, however, manufactured by our good friends at Peterson, something called a finger wrench, which can stick in the lock...

1912
02:04:00,170 --> 02:04:02,690
Let me actually switch up here.

1913
02:04:04,150 --> 02:04:08,550
There is a tension wrench that has little fingers on it.

1914
02:04:09,450 --> 02:04:10,590
It's hard to see.

1915
02:04:10,590 --> 02:04:11,710
Can you see those?

1916
02:04:13,050 --> 02:04:24,630
What that does is stick into the keyway, stick completely through the bottom of the keyway, because there's holes in the bottom.

1917
02:04:25,130 --> 02:04:28,190
These holes don't actually serve a purpose in the lock's function.

1918
02:04:28,190 --> 02:04:34,110
What they do is allow an ejector tool to stick into the lock if you want to pop the pins out and manage your pinning.

1919
02:04:34,390 --> 02:04:40,710
But if you reach down through these holes, you can actually engage just the control sleeve.

1920
02:04:42,210 --> 02:04:47,330
By just engaging the control sleeve, you're only going to tension the top shear line.

1921
02:04:47,470 --> 02:04:55,350
Go in with a regular pick, set the pins, this is not as easy as it sounds, and then turn the control sleeve and eject the entire core.

1922
02:04:58,690 --> 02:05:08,590
This is one example in what I'm going to wrap up at the end talking about the idea that disclosing these vulnerabilities helps us because...

1923
02:05:08,590 --> 02:05:10,090
Oh, by the way, this is...

1924
02:05:10,090 --> 02:05:11,390
Is anyone going to know this?

1925
02:05:11,390 --> 02:05:12,110
This will be for...

1926
02:05:12,110 --> 02:05:12,850
Question?

1927
02:05:19,760 --> 02:05:21,320
I can't hear what you're saying.

1928
02:05:27,480 --> 02:05:29,280
I don't really understand what you mean.

1929
02:05:31,340 --> 02:05:32,620
Oh, it's not unlocked.

1930
02:05:32,620 --> 02:05:34,320
You're just pulling the whole thing out.

1931
02:05:34,320 --> 02:05:37,360
And you can look down and there's little pins that you can flip.

1932
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:38,080
Go ahead.

1933
02:05:40,540 --> 02:05:41,400
Pardon me?

1934
02:05:42,640 --> 02:05:51,260
Yeah, with the core out, you can eject the pins right out of it and get the entire... Not only that, if it's a mastered system, you can get the entire master scheme for the entire facility and so forth.

1935
02:05:52,380 --> 02:05:53,100
Yes.

1936
02:05:53,960 --> 02:06:00,000
Does anyone know who originally came up with this design for this finger wrench for a hard drive and a Red Bull?

1937
02:06:00,980 --> 02:06:02,140
No, not Barry.

1938
02:06:02,140 --> 02:06:03,080
Somebody at Peterson.

1939
02:06:03,080 --> 02:06:04,200
Peterson makes these.

1940
02:06:05,820 --> 02:06:07,060
No, not Ken.

1941
02:06:07,060 --> 02:06:08,140
Good guess though.

1942
02:06:08,360 --> 02:06:08,920
Anybody?

1943
02:06:08,920 --> 02:06:11,080
If you don't know it, a guy named Jerry Finch.

1944
02:06:11,080 --> 02:06:12,060
Very smart cat.

1945
02:06:12,060 --> 02:06:12,700
Question?

1946
02:06:29,780 --> 02:06:30,500
Right.

1947
02:06:31,400 --> 02:06:34,240
Well, that's closer to the rotating constant system.

1948
02:06:34,240 --> 02:06:35,040
I can talk about that.

1949
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:37,680
I'm going to get one more... I'm going to talk about that a little later.

1950
02:06:37,680 --> 02:06:45,160
One more question and then we're going to try to fire through the rest of these and any more questions, if we run out of time, you're going to have the whole hands-on time to talk to me.

1951
02:06:48,440 --> 02:06:49,280
Pardon?

1952
02:06:50,780 --> 02:06:51,820
Yes.

1953
02:06:52,820 --> 02:06:53,760
Very good point.

1954
02:06:53,760 --> 02:06:57,560
This is why I'm so pleased with this information coming out.

1955
02:06:57,560 --> 02:07:00,180
He mentions that there are new sleeve designs.

1956
02:07:00,480 --> 02:07:08,920
In fact, Matt, when he first talked about this, he took his control sleeve and just cut the holes really huge in the bottom.

1957
02:07:09,220 --> 02:07:11,140
You can still stick an ejector tool in there.

1958
02:07:11,140 --> 02:07:14,800
It doesn't hurt, but there's nothing for the finger wrench to grab onto.

1959
02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:18,000
And I believe best manufacture sleeves like this now.

1960
02:07:18,000 --> 02:07:20,920
You mentioned that sometimes the control sleeves are in segments.

1961
02:07:21,500 --> 02:07:26,660
So, yeah, the fact that this was publicly discussed means that it's safer for everyone now.

1962
02:07:26,660 --> 02:07:29,100
And people are retrofitting their locks with better sleeves.

1963
02:07:29,100 --> 02:07:31,260
It's a very, very good thing to talk about.

1964
02:07:32,320 --> 02:07:33,080
Alright.

1965
02:07:33,260 --> 02:07:35,700
Real quick, if you... How many people are enjoying this?

1966
02:07:35,700 --> 02:07:38,000
How many people want to get more knowledge, more involved?

1967
02:07:38,000 --> 02:07:39,640
Are you in the room?

1968
02:07:40,500 --> 02:07:41,820
That's what I like to hear.

1969
02:07:41,820 --> 02:07:43,400
There's plenty of books you can read.

1970
02:07:43,400 --> 02:07:45,940
There's a lot of good places to go online.

1971
02:07:46,260 --> 02:07:48,000
Let's shoot through some of these real fast.

1972
02:07:48,000 --> 02:07:51,740
These slides are all online, by the way, and I'll tell you at the end so we can really flip through this.

1973
02:07:52,380 --> 02:07:54,440
Two of the best books that I know of.

1974
02:07:54,480 --> 02:08:00,380
Very intro, very beginners, very what-do-you-want-to-know-immediately-first is Steel Bolt Hacking by Douglas Chick.

1975
02:08:00,480 --> 02:08:01,620
Doug was here last year.

1976
02:08:01,620 --> 02:08:02,560
I don't know if he's here this year.

1977
02:08:02,560 --> 02:08:05,000
His books probably are in the vendor area somewhere.

1978
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:08,960
The high end is written by the gentleman who spoke before us today.

1979
02:08:08,960 --> 02:08:11,920
Mark Tobias wrote a book called Lock, Safes, and Security.

1980
02:08:11,980 --> 02:08:14,460
That's called by many people the Lockpick Bible.

1981
02:08:14,460 --> 02:08:17,480
It's just like the history of locks starting in ancient Egypt forward.

1982
02:08:17,480 --> 02:08:20,360
It's a very, very good tome of knowledge.

1983
02:08:20,600 --> 02:08:23,300
Online you can Google for the MIT Guide to Lockpicking.

1984
02:08:23,300 --> 02:08:24,940
It's hosted at a few places.

1985
02:08:25,000 --> 02:08:29,660
Some of the videos I'm showing you were cropped from Barry's presentations available here.

1986
02:08:29,660 --> 02:08:31,240
There's a lot of informative pages.

1987
02:08:31,240 --> 02:08:33,120
All these links, you don't have to scribble them right now.

1988
02:08:33,120 --> 02:08:34,600
There's going to be all up at the end.

1989
02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:37,680
There are sport-picking groups.

1990
02:08:37,680 --> 02:08:38,680
There are hobbyist groups.

1991
02:08:38,680 --> 02:08:42,100
There's a lot of fun things you can get involved with that way, with local people.

1992
02:08:42,380 --> 02:08:50,680
Every con that you can go to now, DEFCON, back east, the HOPE cons, what the hack is happening now in Europe, there's sport-picking competitions usually.

1993
02:08:50,680 --> 02:08:54,440
In fact, KyGoth and the DC719 crew are running that this year again.

1994
02:08:54,440 --> 02:08:55,780
They do a great job of it.

1995
02:08:56,020 --> 02:08:56,900
There's groups.

1996
02:08:56,900 --> 02:08:58,640
I mentioned Barry's group, TOOL.

1997
02:08:58,780 --> 02:09:01,460
The German group, which I think has a thousand members.

1998
02:09:01,460 --> 02:09:02,380
It's really huge.

1999
02:09:02,380 --> 02:09:04,000
It's from the Dispotechnik.

2000
02:09:04,060 --> 02:09:07,340
TOOL USA, we recently founded with Barry's blessing.

2001
02:09:07,340 --> 02:09:09,580
We're based out of Princeton University.

2002
02:09:09,800 --> 02:09:12,580
If there's any people near you, meet people here.

2003
02:09:12,580 --> 02:09:13,840
Talk and go home.

2004
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:15,540
Get together and play with stuff.

2005
02:09:15,540 --> 02:09:16,500
Take it apart.

2006
02:09:16,500 --> 02:09:19,500
It's excellent to do with friends or as an individual activity.

2007
02:09:19,500 --> 02:09:25,840
I take a train up to Newark to go to school and I'll just sit there fussing with lockpicks on the train, just popping stuff open.

2008
02:09:25,840 --> 02:09:27,380
It's a great way to pass the time.

2009
02:09:27,980 --> 02:09:31,020
You get a few strange looks, but you're not doing anything very illegal.

2010
02:09:31,620 --> 02:09:33,500
We're going to cover that now in the legal section.

2011
02:09:35,020 --> 02:09:36,280
You've got to hold the question.

2012
02:09:36,280 --> 02:09:36,620
I'm sorry.

2013
02:09:36,620 --> 02:09:37,720
We're going to run out of time if we don't.

2014
02:09:37,720 --> 02:09:38,200
Sorry.

2015
02:09:39,360 --> 02:09:40,320
Buying picks.

2016
02:09:40,800 --> 02:09:41,760
Southerd guys.

2017
02:09:41,820 --> 02:09:43,920
Excellent, excellent picks for starter kits.

2018
02:09:43,920 --> 02:09:44,860
They're very simple.

2019
02:09:44,940 --> 02:09:48,420
The Peterson manufacturing company makes very nice high-end equipment.

2020
02:09:48,840 --> 02:09:49,940
You can get stuff here.

2021
02:09:49,940 --> 02:09:51,740
I know the guys from IVU are around.

2022
02:09:51,740 --> 02:09:52,840
Check out their table.

2023
02:09:52,960 --> 02:09:56,680
Check out some of our stuff in the hands-on area if you want to just pick them up from us.

2024
02:09:56,760 --> 02:09:57,720
You can make your own.

2025
02:09:57,720 --> 02:10:00,900
We'll cover all kind of fun stuff, but we're going to have our grinder tools out.

2026
02:10:00,900 --> 02:10:03,920
We're going to make some picks and make some fun stuff in the hands-on session.

2027
02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:07,820
Those of you with legal concerns, I am not a lawyer.

2028
02:10:07,820 --> 02:10:09,240
I am not sleeping with one.

2029
02:10:09,240 --> 02:10:10,960
This is not legal advice.

2030
02:10:10,980 --> 02:10:12,060
Take it for what it's worth.

2031
02:10:12,060 --> 02:10:13,580
Check your local laws.

2032
02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:21,000
To purchase, ship, and in general just be involved in the transportation of picks, there is a federal standard.

2033
02:10:21,200 --> 02:10:24,720
The federal standard is a five-point eligibility.

2034
02:10:25,020 --> 02:10:27,180
You can be a lock manufacturer.

2035
02:10:27,200 --> 02:10:28,480
You can be law enforcement.

2036
02:10:28,620 --> 02:10:30,440
You can be in the auto business.

2037
02:10:30,440 --> 02:10:31,860
You can be a repo man.

2038
02:10:31,860 --> 02:10:34,120
Or you can be a bona fide locksmith.

2039
02:10:34,260 --> 02:10:37,400
The lawyers in the room will tell you bona fide meaning in good faith.

2040
02:10:37,400 --> 02:10:39,400
It doesn't mean a professional locksmith.

2041
02:10:39,400 --> 02:10:41,480
It doesn't mean a certified locksmith.

2042
02:10:41,480 --> 02:10:44,600
It just means you have a good faith interest in locksmithing.

2043
02:10:44,600 --> 02:10:51,160
In many circles, check with a lawyer, in many circles this is extended to hobbyist and academic interests.

2044
02:10:51,160 --> 02:10:52,460
I've got to have you wait for the question.

2045
02:10:52,460 --> 02:10:53,140
I'm sorry.

2046
02:10:53,620 --> 02:10:59,100
If you have a legitimate non-criminal interest in this, you are covered under that part of the law.

2047
02:10:59,100 --> 02:11:06,140
If you're dealing with a vendor and they say you have to fill out this form, fill it out under check box number five and you should be clear.

2048
02:11:06,860 --> 02:11:10,200
Possession of lock picks, however, can be squirrely.

2049
02:11:10,820 --> 02:11:13,340
Lock picks per se, right Mike, are not illegal.

2050
02:11:13,380 --> 02:11:15,200
Burglary tools are illegal, right?

2051
02:11:15,360 --> 02:11:17,080
Depends where, but generally yes.

2052
02:11:17,480 --> 02:11:20,000
Burglary tools, what makes a burglary tool?

2053
02:11:20,200 --> 02:11:20,860
Intent.

2054
02:11:20,880 --> 02:11:23,120
Intent is much of the law.

2055
02:11:23,880 --> 02:11:36,760
Most laws, every state, by the way, the lockpick101.com those guys, lockpicking101.org or com, we'll check it again, they have a whole legal section you can get all the information you need.

2056
02:11:37,040 --> 02:11:46,700
Basically, if you have demonstrable intent that you're trying to commit a crime, you've got a whole other bag of shit you're trying to deal with.

2057
02:11:46,700 --> 02:11:52,580
If you're just a guy on a subway and they're doing fascist crap in New York, patting people down now and they say, what are these?

2058
02:11:52,580 --> 02:11:53,240
What are these?

2059
02:11:53,240 --> 02:11:53,900
Lock picks?

2060
02:11:54,220 --> 02:11:56,260
Well, you're a guy frigging riding the subway.

2061
02:11:57,080 --> 02:11:59,140
I wasn't going to go somewhere and pick a lock.

2062
02:11:59,140 --> 02:12:01,220
No, there's no intent that you were going to do anything.

2063
02:12:01,220 --> 02:12:08,820
If you are squatting behind Best Buy at 3 in the morning at the back door and a cop's like, what are you doing?

2064
02:12:08,820 --> 02:12:10,240
You're like, I'm taking a piss.

2065
02:12:10,460 --> 02:12:14,920
And they find lock picks on you, you've got a whole different situation you're in there.

2066
02:12:15,400 --> 02:12:17,140
So, be aware of that.

2067
02:12:17,140 --> 02:12:22,120
Many states do not have intent laws or they have kind of more draconian laws.

2068
02:12:22,120 --> 02:12:25,280
We can cover that later on or talk to a lawyer.

2069
02:12:25,320 --> 02:12:29,500
These are states of concern with what are called prima facie evidence laws.

2070
02:12:30,100 --> 02:12:31,520
It's all kind of relative.

2071
02:12:31,520 --> 02:12:32,860
Just keep intent in mind.

2072
02:12:32,860 --> 02:12:38,600
And also if you do anything else illegal, sometimes possession of a lock pick can escalate that crime.

2073
02:12:38,600 --> 02:12:51,200
For instance, if you're trespassing, if you have, a lot of people here like urban exploring, if you're somewhere you're not supposed to be, you might turn a misdemeanor trespass charge into a criminal trespass charge because you had picks on you.

2074
02:12:51,200 --> 02:12:51,980
Keep it in mind.

2075
02:12:51,980 --> 02:12:53,020
Check with a lawyer.

2076
02:12:53,160 --> 02:12:54,360
There's plenty of lawyers here.

2077
02:12:54,360 --> 02:12:55,660
Talk to the people who know.

2078
02:12:58,680 --> 02:12:59,460
Acquiring locks.

2079
02:12:59,460 --> 02:13:00,840
I'll shoot through this real fast.

2080
02:13:00,860 --> 02:13:04,840
Basically, the last, the main thing is just don't go crazy buying them all over.

2081
02:13:04,980 --> 02:13:06,300
Most locks are the same.

2082
02:13:06,300 --> 02:13:09,060
You're gonna, you know, everyone who gets real, oh, I can pick, it's fun.

2083
02:13:09,060 --> 02:13:12,860
You go to the hardware store, you drop 60 bucks, you got you know, a ton of the same lock.

2084
02:13:12,860 --> 02:13:14,060
Look through your basement.

2085
02:13:14,060 --> 02:13:16,820
Look through old stuff that relatives have left in a box somewhere.

2086
02:13:16,820 --> 02:13:18,420
Look for old exotic designs.

2087
02:13:18,640 --> 02:13:21,140
You can get really nice what are called training kits.

2088
02:13:21,140 --> 02:13:29,560
I have one that you can play with at the hands-on where it's pinned, you know, they're keyed the same, but it's only like a one pin stack, then a two pin stack, then a three.

2089
02:13:29,560 --> 02:13:32,620
So you can actually get the feel for it and get started that way.

2090
02:13:32,620 --> 02:13:35,380
There's a lot of really good places you can acquire locks.

2091
02:13:35,380 --> 02:13:36,480
Ask me about later.

2092
02:13:37,500 --> 02:13:40,040
So how does this all break down into the real world?

2093
02:13:40,040 --> 02:13:43,200
What does this really bear on in the big picture?

2094
02:13:43,440 --> 02:13:46,220
They mentioned in the last talk, it's very valid.

2095
02:13:46,520 --> 02:13:48,920
Criminals don't tend to use lock picks.

2096
02:13:48,920 --> 02:13:54,620
I'm not saying no one ever picks a lock with criminal intent, but usually yeah, you're going to get a boot to the door.

2097
02:13:54,640 --> 02:13:59,440
Anybody who was watching sneakers on the Defcon movie channel last night, you know, they just kick the door down.

2098
02:13:59,460 --> 02:14:01,660
Brute force is what criminals use.

2099
02:14:01,660 --> 02:14:10,900
Don't buy the most expensive lock on the shelf and put it, you know, in a non-solid core door with like a balsa wood frame, just, you know, with little quarter inch screws.

2100
02:14:11,580 --> 02:14:13,060
Situate the lock properly.

2101
02:14:13,060 --> 02:14:14,940
Consider the overall scope of it.

2102
02:14:14,940 --> 02:14:23,840
I mentioned, you know, if a guy can sit there next to your server room or your records room picking a lock for an hour, why don't you have a security camera near that door?

2103
02:14:23,840 --> 02:14:26,560
Why don't you have a security guard who occasionally walks by?

2104
02:14:26,620 --> 02:14:29,200
Keep the big picture in mind.

2105
02:14:31,240 --> 02:14:32,580
What make good locks?

2106
02:14:32,580 --> 02:14:36,200
I always get asked this, so I put this page in just to shoot down a few names.

2107
02:14:36,200 --> 02:14:37,720
I don't work for any of these guys.

2108
02:14:37,720 --> 02:14:39,340
They just kind of impress me.

2109
02:14:39,340 --> 02:14:42,580
Those Medicos with the biaxial pins, I love them to death.

2110
02:14:42,620 --> 02:14:46,420
The Assa V10, for the slight flaw that it has, it's still magnificent.

2111
02:14:46,500 --> 02:14:49,140
Those best FICs, they're very hard to pick.

2112
02:14:49,140 --> 02:14:52,480
They're very nice to do logistics of large scale deployment.

2113
02:14:52,800 --> 02:14:56,360
Abus, that was what Barry was picking, the rotating disk lock.

2114
02:14:56,360 --> 02:14:58,440
They make a very , very nice strong lock.

2115
02:14:58,540 --> 02:15:03,540
American , we're going to talk about a little bit more at my very end slide, but they tend to make good things.

2116
02:15:03,540 --> 02:15:08,960
And if anybody here is in the military, by the way, anybody who can score me one of these bad boys?

2117
02:15:09,560 --> 02:15:22,680
The Sergeant in Greenleaf 833, I've heard it told that if you come across one of these, somewhere far, far away, there's a lieutenant screaming at a corporal as to why it's not inventoried properly, because they're not supposed to get out there.

2118
02:15:23,860 --> 02:15:24,400
You got one?

2119
02:15:24,400 --> 02:15:24,940
You got one?

2120
02:15:27,780 --> 02:15:28,660
That's what I've heard.

2121
02:15:28,660 --> 02:15:29,860
These are armory locks.

2122
02:15:29,860 --> 02:15:38,480
These are a Medico biaxial core, situated in what is the most beautifully designed and engineered housing I've ever seen in my life.

2123
02:15:39,120 --> 02:15:40,680
Yes, some bad locks stand out.

2124
02:15:40,680 --> 02:15:50,300
We've been kind of beaten up on Master for this talk, and I don't like to all the time, because they make a high-end model, just no one buys them, because they keep frigging making shitty models that everyone buys, because they're cheap.

2125
02:15:50,900 --> 02:15:57,100
Quickset, everyone who's ever got a door in your house that has a quickset, you'll shit your pants when you pick it in three seconds.

2126
02:15:58,160 --> 02:16:00,520
Keep in mind, you get what you pay for.

2127
02:16:00,560 --> 02:16:09,320
If there's three different locks on the shelf, one costs nothing, one costs middle, and one costs a lot, chances are, the expensive one's going to be better.

2128
02:16:09,320 --> 02:16:21,900
If you're in the American marketplace, if it's a free market system, if you're a recognizable name, you can't keep producing garbage year after year, and people aren't going to keep buying your product, unless you're Microsoft.

2129
02:16:24,100 --> 02:16:28,020
If it's a reputable brand and it's expensive, you're probably halfway there.

2130
02:16:31,360 --> 02:16:33,600
You picked a quickset with a popsicle stick?

2131
02:16:33,600 --> 02:16:35,380
It wouldn't surprise me.

2132
02:16:36,240 --> 02:16:38,960
Keep playing with these locks.

2133
02:16:38,980 --> 02:16:40,620
Keep experimenting.

2134
02:16:41,200 --> 02:16:45,620
Security is achieved through openness, not just in the digital world.

2135
02:16:45,620 --> 02:16:52,360
We should not be so eager to be hushed up about when we discover things in the physical world.

2136
02:16:53,040 --> 02:16:54,720
Craziness next door.

2137
02:16:55,020 --> 02:17:01,060
The American 700 is a story I love to tell, because it's a complete example of this phenomenon.

2138
02:17:01,920 --> 02:17:03,820
Anybody live in a big city?

2139
02:17:03,820 --> 02:17:05,120
Been to a big city?

2140
02:17:06,380 --> 02:17:15,640
So if you're walking around at night, you'll see that every storefront is closed down with a big honking sucker.

2141
02:17:16,600 --> 02:17:27,240
Almost always, storefronts and big where brute force, where some guy with a crowbar is going to be the assault, is going to be either an American lock or a clone of an American lock.

2142
02:17:27,240 --> 02:17:29,360
This is their 700 series lock.

2143
02:17:29,360 --> 02:17:31,040
It's a very nice padlock.

2144
02:17:31,400 --> 02:17:34,380
It has a flaw, however, which was discovered.

2145
02:17:35,940 --> 02:17:38,540
This lock is a removable core.

2146
02:17:38,540 --> 02:17:44,660
You can see that when the lock is unlocked, you can unscrew from the inside, drop the eight plate off, eject the core.

2147
02:17:44,660 --> 02:17:46,780
The core is a nice little self-contained unit.

2148
02:17:46,980 --> 02:17:59,260
This core interfaces with the double ball control cylinder by means of the core has a raised half circle piece and the control cylinder has a raised quarter circle piece.

2149
02:17:59,260 --> 02:18:00,440
Can you guys see that?

2150
02:18:00,440 --> 02:18:04,280
How they just fit together and when they're together, they turn and they engage.

2151
02:18:06,120 --> 02:18:10,660
Peterson makes this tool called the American Bypass Tool.

2152
02:18:13,020 --> 02:18:18,600
This is the bypass tool and if I stick this all the way down this lock

2153
02:18:24,380 --> 02:18:25,960
and I beat this tool to hell

2154
02:18:29,020 --> 02:18:30,880
that opens that lock.

2155
02:18:32,240 --> 02:18:33,220
Why is that?

2156
02:18:33,220 --> 02:18:38,680
Well, it's because if you're looking at this core, this ejected core, this is the back end of it.

2157
02:18:38,760 --> 02:18:41,080
The keyway is visible.

2158
02:18:41,080 --> 02:18:49,860
The keyway is cut all the way through and the Peterson tool, the bypass tool just has a little hockey stick kind of end.

2159
02:18:49,960 --> 02:18:57,420
It slips all the way down through the keyway and it spins that second cylinder.

2160
02:18:57,580 --> 02:19:02,080
The cylinder, it just fits right in where it should be and it just kind of just flicks the cylinder and just turns it.

2161
02:19:02,380 --> 02:19:04,420
It's a very elegant bypass.

2162
02:19:04,420 --> 02:19:08,620
It's got a lot of attention but American is a great company.

2163
02:19:08,620 --> 02:19:16,260
Instead of trying to sue people over this, instead of trying to make a huge fuss, American just came out with something called a security wafer.

2164
02:19:16,420 --> 02:19:18,540
They're hard to order but they do have a part number.

2165
02:19:18,540 --> 02:19:20,200
You can find them by some vendors.

2166
02:19:20,320 --> 02:19:24,400
You can take your core, eject it out, and put this security wafer in.

2167
02:19:24,460 --> 02:19:29,200
And it's literally, I love how it's such a, like the digital world, it's like they released a patch.

2168
02:19:29,560 --> 02:19:31,680
So it's like a hot fix.

2169
02:19:32,020 --> 02:19:37,120
And you put the lock back together and you can't stick the American tool down the keyway.

2170
02:19:37,660 --> 02:19:45,220
Never one to be discouraged, Ken came up with this, which is a wafer breaker kit.

2171
02:19:47,420 --> 02:19:53,920
You stick these down the keyway, you smash on them, and those wafers are spread out in their history.

2172
02:19:54,360 --> 02:19:56,380
So we'll see what happens next.

2173
02:19:56,520 --> 02:19:59,200
I would like to think American is a good company.

2174
02:19:59,320 --> 02:20:01,800
Chances are they're going to try to come up with something even better.

2175
02:20:01,800 --> 02:20:03,880
And Ken's going to kind of come up with something better.

2176
02:20:03,880 --> 02:20:06,680
And the end result is better security for all of us.

2177
02:20:06,700 --> 02:20:09,340
Because we talk about it, the vendors address it.

2178
02:20:09,340 --> 02:20:11,480
That's not a bad thing.

2179
02:20:12,380 --> 02:20:14,700
You know, this is, we know about all of this.

2180
02:20:14,700 --> 02:20:19,780
You guys, all we know about security through obscurity versus real security in the digital world.

2181
02:20:19,860 --> 02:20:22,140
Think about it the same way in the real world.

2182
02:20:22,140 --> 02:20:23,760
The physical world is no different.

2183
02:20:24,120 --> 02:20:26,280
Matt Blaze wrote a couple of great papers about this.

2184
02:20:26,280 --> 02:20:27,480
I have the links later.

2185
02:20:28,800 --> 02:20:35,620
Ultimately, I like to kind of wrap it up by saying don't be super trusting of anything.

2186
02:20:35,860 --> 02:20:41,360
When I was real young, my dad was in the service, and he had his issue weapons in the house.

2187
02:20:41,360 --> 02:20:45,000
And when I was growing up, he showed me guns when I was real little.

2188
02:20:45,060 --> 02:20:51,100
And he said, you know, he's showing me how this is how it's open and closed, and he's showing me how you can look down the barrel and the chamber is empty.

2189
02:20:51,200 --> 02:20:52,540
And I said, well, why am I showing you this?

2190
02:20:52,540 --> 02:20:55,300
Because, son, a gun is not safe.

2191
02:20:55,400 --> 02:20:59,400
A gun is not okay unless you've seen that it's safe.

2192
02:20:59,400 --> 02:21:01,380
You're not protected unless you've seen it.

2193
02:21:01,380 --> 02:21:02,720
What did I just tell you?

2194
02:21:02,720 --> 02:21:06,000
And I was like, a gun's not safe unless I know it's safe.

2195
02:21:06,000 --> 02:21:06,700
He goes, no.

2196
02:21:06,700 --> 02:21:09,740
It's not safe unless you've seen that it's safe.

2197
02:21:09,760 --> 02:21:11,200
See it for yourself.

2198
02:21:11,500 --> 02:21:12,740
Take things apart.

2199
02:21:12,980 --> 02:21:13,940
Play with them.

2200
02:21:13,940 --> 02:21:15,980
Don't just take people at their word.

2201
02:21:16,460 --> 02:21:24,640
You know, we joke around, and when AST Cell and other guys are out walking around at night, and we all take pictures, you know, oh, the hacker salute, DEF CON salute.

2202
02:21:25,340 --> 02:21:27,540
This is more powerful than you know.

2203
02:21:28,020 --> 02:21:33,120
This is something that you should fly in the face of people who try to stop you from exploring.

2204
02:21:33,760 --> 02:21:41,640
Nothing can be healthier than a really nice, hearty, fuck you to some people who say that learning about things is bad.

2205
02:21:41,720 --> 02:21:44,140
Can I get everyone to practice this one time all together?

2206
02:21:44,680 --> 02:21:45,520
Out loud.

2207
02:21:45,520 --> 02:21:46,700
One, two, three.

2208
02:21:46,740 --> 02:21:48,200
Fuck you!

2209
02:21:48,620 --> 02:21:49,400
Hey, man.

2210
02:21:49,400 --> 02:21:51,100
Those are trade secrets.

2211
02:21:51,100 --> 02:21:52,520
Those are copyrighted.

2212
02:21:52,520 --> 02:21:54,360
You can't explore our designs.

2213
02:21:54,360 --> 02:21:56,300
Just buy them.

2214
02:21:56,320 --> 02:21:58,040
Fuck you!

2215
02:21:58,100 --> 02:22:00,360
The Department of Justice is in control.

2216
02:22:00,360 --> 02:22:01,480
Leave it to your legislators.

2217
02:22:01,480 --> 02:22:03,980
We will pass laws that take care of you.

2218
02:22:03,980 --> 02:22:05,960
You don't have to know how things work.

2219
02:22:06,100 --> 02:22:07,600
Fuck you!

2220
02:22:07,640 --> 02:22:09,620
Why are you trying to explore things?

2221
02:22:09,620 --> 02:22:10,820
You're just a criminal.

2222
02:22:10,820 --> 02:22:12,560
You're not interested in security.

2223
02:22:12,980 --> 02:22:14,220
Fuck you!

2224
02:22:14,460 --> 02:22:17,960
Exposing bad security is what protects us all.

2225
02:22:33,230 --> 02:22:35,030
Thank you very much.

2226
02:22:35,070 --> 02:22:36,130
I could not have...

2227
02:22:36,130 --> 02:22:36,950
Oh, sorry.

2228
02:22:38,550 --> 02:22:42,790
To say that I came up and did this on my own would be just ridiculous.

2229
02:22:43,270 --> 02:22:47,550
Barry, Matt, Mike here, RenderMan, who you've seen around with the fedora.

2230
02:22:48,070 --> 02:22:49,870
Before everyone leaves, there's going to be a Q&A.

2231
02:22:49,870 --> 02:22:55,930
Everybody from Tool, DC719 and Kygoth, everybody in Tool USA, I've got to thank them all.

2232
02:22:56,150 --> 02:22:58,430
We can do Q&A with the few minutes we've got.

2233
02:22:58,430 --> 02:23:00,570
Here's all the links.

2234
02:23:01,030 --> 02:23:03,190
Or if you want, we're really short on time.

2235
02:23:03,190 --> 02:23:05,290
Do you guys want to just break it down here?

2236
02:23:05,310 --> 02:23:06,330
I'll pack all this up.

2237
02:23:06,330 --> 02:23:11,330
We can meet in the contest area, do some hands-on work, and we'll do questions there.

2238
02:23:11,330 --> 02:23:14,030
Everyone, pie and punch will be served at the contest area.

2239
02:23:15,750 --> 02:23:19,530
By the way, if you're leaving, leave through those doors.

2240
02:23:19,530 --> 02:23:22,330
Doors to your left as you face the stage.

2241
02:23:22,650 --> 02:23:23,610
Thank you.