WEBVTT 00:15.320 --> 00:17.240 So, my name is Fred Benenson. 00:17.240 --> 00:18.440 Can you hear me alright? 00:19.340 --> 00:19.940 No? 00:19.940 --> 00:20.660 Louder? 00:20.900 --> 00:21.620 Closer? 00:21.620 --> 00:22.220 Closer? 00:22.220 --> 00:23.140 Is that closer? 00:24.020 --> 00:24.600 Hello? 00:24.600 --> 00:25.200 Hello? 00:25.240 --> 00:25.960 Okay. 00:26.120 --> 00:26.880 Sorry. 00:27.260 --> 00:29.760 So, my name is Fred Benenson. 00:29.760 --> 00:34.040 I just graduated NYU in May, where I started a free culture club. 00:34.280 --> 00:37.200 We'll be talking about free culture, the organization, in a bit. 00:37.200 --> 00:42.300 But I'm working for Creative Commons over the summer, and I'm going to be heading back to New York in a bit. 00:42.300 --> 00:58.740 But I've been interested in kind of open source, free software, everything in terms from hacking to, I don't know, graphic design since high school when I was reading 2600 and stuff, and that kind of what got me into it. 00:58.740 --> 01:00.160 But, I don't know. 01:00.160 --> 01:01.040 Here's Elizabeth. 01:02.140 --> 01:03.080 Hey, everybody. 01:03.080 --> 01:04.340 My name's Elizabeth Stark. 01:04.400 --> 01:09.020 Firstly, I'm kind of losing my voice, so please forgive me, or if you can't hear me, let me know. 01:09.020 --> 01:17.860 I am a current law student at Harvard Law School, who apparently needs to check up on their SSL connections. 01:18.480 --> 01:25.280 But I'm also extremely interested in the issues surrounding law, culture, and technology. 01:25.280 --> 01:27.840 I'm kind of a culture junkie myself. 01:28.640 --> 01:33.960 I went to Brown University, and I'm helping out FreeCulture.org. 01:33.960 --> 01:41.740 I am looking to start a chapter at my school next year, but currently doing a lot of work with the organization, and representing them here. 01:43.440 --> 01:44.020 All right. 01:44.020 --> 01:58.980 So, we came up with this idea to give a speech here because we wanted to kind of bring FreeCulture to another community, and we see DEF CON as a kind of great community of like-minded technology folk. 02:00.280 --> 02:03.980 So, let's get started about what FreeCulture actually means. 02:03.980 --> 02:11.780 First of all, this is not in particular order, but it's a book written by Lawrence Lessig, famous law professor from Harvard. 02:13.000 --> 02:14.800 I'm sorry, he taught at Yale. 02:15.040 --> 02:18.120 He went to Yale, taught at Harvard, now he teaches at Stanford. 02:18.180 --> 02:19.740 He also runs Creative Commons. 02:20.600 --> 02:22.680 So, he's written a couple books. 02:22.980 --> 02:28.060 He's working on another one called Code, but his most famous one is called FreeCulture. 02:29.060 --> 02:41.200 FreeCulture also means the student movement that we're participating in, and it all started from a lawsuit at Swarthmore. 02:41.380 --> 02:46.840 But at first we'd like to clarify, though, we do not claim to be the entire quote-unquote FreeCulture movement. 02:46.980 --> 03:02.680 We are one student organization within the movement that is composed of professors, academics, artists, technologists, all different types of people that are interested in the issues relating, say, to copyleft, to FreeCulture, not as in free beer, but more like free trade. 03:03.320 --> 03:04.980 And we are a part of that movement. 03:04.980 --> 03:08.120 Sometimes we are accused of claiming that we created the movement. 03:08.200 --> 03:09.680 No, that's not really the case. 03:09.680 --> 03:13.020 We're here representing FreeCulture.org, which you can see up on the site. 03:13.020 --> 03:15.020 If you want more information, kind of dig through there. 03:15.100 --> 03:16.860 But hopefully we'll give you some here. 03:17.540 --> 03:24.180 I'm going to describe how it kind of came about, what college students were first involved in it, because it's actually kind of an interesting story. 03:25.840 --> 03:35.100 I'm going to quote from an article on motherjones.com about two students at Swarthmore College named Luke and Nelson. 03:36.320 --> 03:38.340 Here, I'll read from the article. 03:38.340 --> 03:45.480 The adventure began in spring 2003 when a hacker broke into dbold's computer system and under 15,000 internal emails. 03:45.500 --> 03:52.280 In them, dbold employees fret over the voting machine's vulnerability to hackers and their alarming habit of going on the fritz. 03:52.280 --> 03:57.600 I need some answers, one employee wrote from Florida, regarding the 2000 recount. 03:58.720 --> 04:03.880 Precinct 216 gave Al Gore a minus 16,022 votes when it was uploaded. 04:03.880 --> 04:10.200 Will somebody please explain this to me so I have the information to give to the auditor instead of standing there looking dumb? 04:10.200 --> 04:14.080 That's the text in the memos that were published online. 04:14.340 --> 04:20.840 So it was a big deal, because these memos kind of exposed a glaring flaw in our voting process. 04:20.840 --> 04:24.820 For all the insanity that went on during the Bush vs. 04:24.820 --> 04:30.460 Gore election in 2000, it was a really big deal to kind of think that the voting machines were broken. 04:30.460 --> 04:34.440 I mean, who knows what could have happened if anybody established anything. 04:34.440 --> 04:37.900 So dbold was responsible for these voting machines that went on the fritz. 04:37.900 --> 04:44.340 The memos got left open for the technically minded in an open FTP directory with no password. 04:44.580 --> 04:49.080 Enough people downloaded it and started passing it around that it became kind of like buzz on the internet. 04:49.080 --> 04:54.840 Luke and Nelson at Swarthmore picked up on it because they were familiar with the movement and that kind of thing. 04:54.840 --> 04:56.800 They put it on their website. 04:57.000 --> 04:58.120 So did Derek. 04:58.620 --> 05:00.060 Yeah, so did Derek. 05:00.140 --> 05:06.880 And everyone who was posting on their website, obviously dbold freaks out and starts sending cease and desist letters. 05:06.880 --> 05:14.740 And the cease and desist letters were really interesting because they weren't trade secrets cease and desist letters. 05:14.740 --> 05:24.420 They were copyright infringement cease and desist letters, which is pretty much claiming that the internal memos from dbold had original art that they were trying to claim copyright on. 05:24.420 --> 05:27.540 And by posting it on a website, you're infringing on the copyright. 05:27.540 --> 05:31.920 It's kind of a big difference between copying CDs and publishing memos. 05:31.940 --> 05:43.020 But as we know, large content companies, they basically would send cease and desist letters to people even if they don't have a valid copyright argument because they want to scare people away. 05:43.020 --> 05:46.420 And this is pretty much the argument in this situation. 05:46.420 --> 05:48.960 These were college kids, other ISPs. 05:48.960 --> 05:52.500 When they first sent the letter to Swarthmore, they immediately took it down. 05:53.160 --> 05:58.480 Swarthmore freaked out, as any university or college would probably freak out. 05:58.480 --> 06:00.560 They contacted the students and took it down. 06:00.700 --> 06:07.040 Luke and Nelson kind of bit their lip and played by their game for a bit but then realized that they should stand up for it. 06:07.040 --> 06:10.140 So then they posted the memos up on another site. 06:10.140 --> 06:19.160 I'm not sure where, but it was a big deal because they were kind of standing up to this big, evil Republican corporation. 06:21.540 --> 06:24.000 We're a non-partisan group, by the way. 06:24.000 --> 06:25.620 Yeah, we're a non-partisan group. 06:26.580 --> 06:33.520 It was these two kids from a liberal arts university getting threatened by a Republican corporation. 06:33.520 --> 06:35.760 It was a fascinating point. 06:35.760 --> 06:46.380 Anyway, so instead of getting sued by Diebold, what happens is that they actually sue Diebold under a provision called 512F, which Elizabeth will talk about. 06:46.800 --> 06:53.340 So as we all know, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, otherwise known as the DMCA, has a lot of provisions that we don't like. 06:53.340 --> 07:10.380 There is something written into it called 512F that this was the first case to actually test the provision where if you are accusing copyright infringement, where it is so basically obvious that this is not a case of infringement, as if you're bullying someone, 07:10.380 --> 07:12.420 which I think Diebold in this case clearly... 07:12.420 --> 07:14.240 Definitely qualified as bullying. 07:14.240 --> 07:20.080 I think a lot of other content companies are doing that as well, but you can sue under this provision. 07:20.560 --> 07:27.520 The EFF stepped in as well, and David over here testified for the EFF in the case. 07:27.520 --> 07:29.120 So we have a lot of supporters here. 07:29.200 --> 07:31.900 And they won the case. 07:32.480 --> 07:39.480 The court basically said this is an obvious fair use, and it was so obvious that they could not have thought that it was an actual copyright infringement. 07:39.480 --> 07:45.440 One of the big deals was that the information that was released was actually in the public interest. 07:45.660 --> 07:52.660 It wasn't just some trade secret like Apple's new design for the shuffle, which is questionably in the public interest. 07:52.660 --> 07:59.040 It was something that actually had to do with voting and the next president and that kind of thing. 07:59.400 --> 08:02.560 So it definitely qualified as fair use. 08:02.560 --> 08:03.820 The good news is... 08:03.820 --> 08:05.710 They got back attorney's fees and also... 08:06.240 --> 08:11.020 Right, they won the lawsuit, got back attorney's fees, and won some money for themselves, I think. 08:11.480 --> 08:14.120 So that kind of started a... 08:14.120 --> 08:16.380 It was a sensation at Swarthmore. 08:16.380 --> 08:22.160 It was such a small college in that these kids were in magazines, New York Times magazine, it was a huge deal. 08:22.220 --> 08:33.920 And they realized that there was really a demand for students who are interested in the future of copyright, online, internet technologies and everything, that there was really a demand for a political movement. 08:36.020 --> 08:42.080 During the Diebold trial, Nelson and Luke had started a group called the Swarthmore Coalition for the Digital Commons. 08:42.080 --> 08:43.500 Not so easy to say. 08:43.500 --> 08:45.060 Yeah, not so easy to say. 08:45.220 --> 08:53.840 But after garnering so much public and national attention, they decided to just rename themselves to FreeCulture.org and start a national organization. 08:54.220 --> 08:57.680 So that's kind of how the beginning of the organization worked. 08:57.680 --> 09:06.400 Nelson and Luke kind of worked hard to get it going at Swarthmore and then started up an email list and got stuff posted on Slashdot and that's how I found out about it. 09:06.400 --> 09:07.940 I'd been kind of interested. 09:07.940 --> 09:08.040 Lessig's blog as well. 09:08.040 --> 09:09.820 Yeah, Lessig's blog posted about it. 09:09.820 --> 09:20.020 Although, one thing I'd like to clarify is, as much as we definitely admire the work of Professor Lessig and we have read his books and whatnot, he is not the head of our organization. 09:20.220 --> 09:25.100 Some people have accused him of basically rounding up students to be his quote-unquote chief. 09:25.380 --> 09:26.120 That is not what we are. 09:26.120 --> 09:27.260 This is pretty far from the truth. 09:27.260 --> 09:33.760 And he consistently denies that he has anything to do with kind of our big decision-making and that kind of thing. 09:33.760 --> 09:38.920 I mean, we named our club after his book. 09:38.920 --> 09:44.720 It's an important document as far as we're concerned, but there is a lot of difference between Lawrence Lessig and Free Culture. 09:44.720 --> 09:46.280 So just a minor point. 09:46.280 --> 10:01.380 But our goal is to try to make it as student-oriented as possible and try to keep our board of directors, when we decide on one, as kind of young and hip and in with the college and university crowd as possible. 10:01.820 --> 10:03.100 And grad school. 10:03.100 --> 10:04.260 And grad school. 10:04.540 --> 10:05.760 Well, university. 10:06.880 --> 10:20.440 So basically this email list starts going around in the, I guess it's the summer of 2004 and I get on it and I was interested in doing stuff at NYU because I pulled an April Fool's prank. 10:20.440 --> 10:28.220 It was a poster from the RIAA saying, trade in your MP3s and we'll give you iTunes credits. 10:28.460 --> 10:38.380 It was this really elaborate prank and we put up posters everywhere and people really responded to it and I kind of realized then that students are interested in this. 10:38.380 --> 10:41.680 This is a topic that people are talking about and arguing about. 10:41.680 --> 10:48.280 And it was actually at the top of all the lawsuits going against college students for file sharing. 10:48.280 --> 10:54.900 So I coordinated, I got something started at NYU and kind of went from there. 10:54.900 --> 10:56.320 We're now a club at NYU. 10:57.100 --> 11:03.060 There's an umbrella organization called FreeCulture.org which kind of helps manage everything. 11:03.060 --> 11:08.120 And Elizabeth and I are in the core committee and we kind of work from there. 11:08.120 --> 11:14.600 And then we also have a main discuss list that people kind of post links and argue on and that kind of thing. 11:14.600 --> 11:21.420 And I highly encourage you to join it because it's a very interesting list with a lot of kind of up-to-date stuff on it. 11:21.560 --> 11:36.180 And we currently have 13 chapters across the country and firstly we have countless students from other schools who are interested, who are trying to start up chapters, who participate in the discussions and the meetings that we have. 11:36.180 --> 11:41.520 And we also have a lot of international interest, especially from, for example, the UK. 11:41.520 --> 11:49.980 I think somebody just started FreeCulture.org.uk and they're working on a project out of, I think, where is it? 11:50.520 --> 11:51.960 I'm not sure. 11:52.000 --> 11:54.460 And we also have people in South America. 11:54.680 --> 12:01.780 As some of you may know, South America is extremely interested in, for example, in Brazil and Argentina, the free software movement and free culture movement. 12:01.780 --> 12:04.960 So we have a bunch of people interested from there. 12:05.120 --> 12:09.480 So as opposed to explaining kind of our origins, let's get a little bit more specific. 12:09.480 --> 12:12.260 We see ourselves as do-it-yourself politics. 12:12.260 --> 12:20.420 I mean, that's really the nature of a grassroots organization is that you kind of identify a problem you have with society or policy or law and you kind of go from there. 12:20.420 --> 12:28.060 And our main goal is to reform copyright law and kind of pave the way for sensible technology. 12:28.360 --> 12:34.920 And to educate people about the alternative and how we can work toward a greater public domain and freedom of information. 12:35.080 --> 12:36.840 And as students, we're a concerned party. 12:36.840 --> 12:42.700 We're worried that governments, corporations, and even individuals are making bad choices about how this stuff is happening. 12:42.700 --> 12:52.260 And these choices threaten to stagnate future progress and innovation in ways that we haven't really known before or we won't even ever know. 12:53.600 --> 12:58.100 So basically, we came to DEF CON because we think hackers should care about free culture. 12:58.120 --> 13:04.620 And we see kind of our goals as an organization very similar to a lot of the sentiments in the hacker community. 13:04.620 --> 13:13.480 And one of the biggest things that hackers tout is their right to be curious and explore the technology that we're using or that they're using. 13:13.480 --> 13:17.920 And we feel that as a main tenet of culture and technology. 13:17.920 --> 13:31.440 So where hackers mainly explore code and systems and that kind of thing, we like to encourage the idea of exploring culture and taking and using culture in similar ways as a hacker. 13:31.440 --> 13:31.680 And code. 13:31.680 --> 13:32.320 And code . 13:34.140 --> 13:39.940 So from that point on, I guess we're going to talk about some examples of what we consider culture hacking. 13:40.680 --> 13:46.640 People taking bits of culture and remixing them and reusing them in ways that they were originally unintended. 13:46.840 --> 13:55.280 And to that end, we have a lot of media that we're going to show and entertaining stuff from the history of what we like to call culture hacking. 13:55.560 --> 13:57.620 First, I'm going to... 13:57.620 --> 14:02.540 Bear with me if you guys feel like this is too close to an art history presentation. 14:02.540 --> 14:07.000 But hey, I don't think a lot of other people are talking about art history at DEF CON. 14:07.380 --> 14:10.180 Here we go. 14:10.200 --> 14:11.160 Get ready. 14:13.400 --> 14:14.440 Fade in. 14:14.520 --> 14:15.300 Oh, yeah. 14:16.660 --> 14:19.880 Okay, so some of you may be familiar with this image. 14:19.880 --> 14:21.360 Some of you may not be. 14:22.160 --> 14:30.740 As far as I know, this is one of the first blatant uses of a remix in Western art. 14:30.740 --> 14:33.420 And this is by an artist named Marcel Duchamp. 14:33.420 --> 14:35.160 This is actually a... Oops. 14:35.160 --> 14:36.180 I'm sorry. 14:37.740 --> 14:39.360 Picasso's getting feisty. 14:39.360 --> 14:43.260 Okay, so Marcel Duchamp did this in the early 1900s. 14:43.380 --> 14:47.660 He was a prolific artist dabbling in a lot of different genres. 14:47.660 --> 14:52.760 But this was a postcard remake of the Mona Lisa. 14:52.760 --> 14:56.060 And it looks huge now, but it's actually incredibly tiny. 14:56.060 --> 15:02.140 And he basically drew a mustache on her and wrote L-H-O-O-Q at the bottom. 15:02.140 --> 15:05.360 And when pronounced phonetically in French, that means she's got a... 15:05.360 --> 15:06.340 There you go. 15:07.040 --> 15:10.660 And when pronounced phonetically, that means she's got a hot ass, right? 15:10.660 --> 15:11.360 A nice ass. 15:11.360 --> 15:12.540 A nice ass. 15:13.440 --> 15:24.180 So this is one of my favorite pieces of work, art, because it ties in so many ideas that were just coming of age in the early 1900s. 15:24.180 --> 15:27.660 The idea that art is getting whittled down to postcard size. 15:27.660 --> 15:31.820 And this would be something you'd send one of your friends from the Louvre, and that kind of thing. 15:31.820 --> 15:38.600 But it was Duchamp kind of mocking this, and kind of coming up and saying that, well, maybe this is art too. 15:38.600 --> 15:43.920 And so, you know, even though he just drew a mustache on her, it became a famous piece of art. 15:43.920 --> 15:47.920 And he was widely recognized as being brilliant for this. 15:48.160 --> 15:50.180 And let's clarify something. 15:50.440 --> 15:59.540 When you said this is one of the first remixes in modern art, I think we take the position that almost all art and all culture is derivative in some way or another. 15:59.540 --> 16:06.760 I guess I meant it in a literal remix sense, is that this is exactly, this is a sample, in its most literal sense. 16:06.900 --> 16:13.420 And before this, my personal opinion is that most music remixes itself on a metaphorical level. 16:13.420 --> 16:17.320 You're always referencing what Beethoven did, or Mozart did, and that kind of thing. 16:18.020 --> 16:20.900 So anyway, Duchamp did some more cool stuff. 16:20.900 --> 16:22.480 This is pushing it a little bit farther. 16:22.480 --> 16:34.420 This is a urinal he took from a public metro station, I think, in Paris, and basically wrote Armut on it, which was one of his pseudonyms that he released art under, and put it on display. 16:34.420 --> 16:38.900 And he got it into a museum or gallery, I think, and it was a sensation. 16:38.900 --> 16:40.420 It blew people's minds in Paris. 16:40.420 --> 16:44.500 People were so angry and excited. 16:44.500 --> 16:45.800 How could a urinal be art? 16:45.800 --> 16:51.560 Yeah, yeah, it was just on the tip of everyone's tongue in the art scene in the early 1900s. 16:51.560 --> 16:59.700 And I think recently, I can't remember who said it, but this was voted the most influential piece of modern art in the 20th century. 16:59.740 --> 17:04.580 And, you know, it's a urinal, but it's the idea of appropriating something that's already been created. 17:04.920 --> 17:08.760 And Duchamp was one of the first artists to do this. 17:09.840 --> 17:15.700 And our position is, what if copyright laws were as strict as they are now, back then? 17:15.700 --> 17:18.120 I mean, would Duchamp really have gotten away with this? 17:18.120 --> 17:24.120 I mean, obviously the Mona Lisa's in the public domain, but who knows about the manufacturer of the urinal? 17:24.120 --> 17:25.520 They probably could have sued him. 17:26.280 --> 17:28.780 Next up, I'm not sure... 17:28.780 --> 17:30.520 I think the original design of the art... 17:30.520 --> 17:32.380 Well, that's for another one to debate. 17:33.900 --> 17:35.060 So this is a shovel. 17:35.060 --> 17:37.040 This is another Duchamp piece. 17:37.300 --> 17:38.560 It's a snow shovel. 17:38.800 --> 17:40.260 He got it at a museum. 17:40.940 --> 17:42.100 I think it's pretty cool. 17:42.720 --> 17:45.300 And this is one of the most famous pieces of modern art. 17:45.300 --> 17:46.580 I'm sure you all recognize. 17:46.880 --> 17:47.880 This is Andy Warhol. 17:47.880 --> 17:50.280 I think he did this in the middle of the 60s. 17:50.280 --> 18:01.840 He pretty much just took a picture of a Campbell's soup can, got it into a silkscreen format, and made a ton of silkscreen canvases with the Campbell's soup can logo on it. 18:01.840 --> 18:08.060 This was a huge deal because people just loved the idea that he was representing 18:11.120 --> 18:13.140 consumer products as art. 18:13.140 --> 18:16.980 And it was extraordinarily controversial, just like Duchamp was. 18:16.980 --> 18:22.780 And people couldn't understand why somebody would put up a soup can and call it art. 18:23.080 --> 18:30.300 But it's lasted over time, and everyone kind of accepts it as an important part of art. 18:30.300 --> 18:32.040 Campbell's, at the time, didn't object. 18:32.040 --> 18:33.460 They were like, this is great. 18:33.460 --> 18:35.720 Somebody's found a novel way to use our soup can. 18:35.720 --> 18:36.920 Yeah, they didn't sue. 18:36.920 --> 18:39.400 Instead, they found it as promotion for their product. 18:39.400 --> 18:40.500 It's like free advertising. 18:40.500 --> 18:42.440 They thought it was great marketing. 18:42.700 --> 18:46.960 I kind of have a funny story to tell about this, but I'll save it for the end. 18:47.620 --> 18:49.480 This is another example of Warhol's art. 18:49.480 --> 18:50.380 It's a Brillo. 18:50.540 --> 18:52.240 I think these are larger than life. 18:52.240 --> 18:58.460 Yeah, he scaled these up, so it's just the idea of turning a small soap pad into a large kind of box. 18:58.460 --> 19:00.700 Just more appropriation art. 19:01.320 --> 19:02.640 More of Warhol's stuff. 19:02.640 --> 19:05.400 I mean, these are worth hundreds of thousands of dollars now. 19:05.940 --> 19:08.740 I mean, not to say that money is a good value. 19:09.140 --> 19:10.820 Here's Warhol himself. 19:10.820 --> 19:12.740 I'm sorry about the JPEG compression on that. 19:12.740 --> 19:13.540 It's ugly. 19:14.580 --> 19:16.160 More Campbell's soup can. 19:16.160 --> 19:18.120 He's just kind of going crazy with this stuff. 19:18.120 --> 19:19.620 Everyone loves it at the time. 19:20.360 --> 19:22.300 Another famous Warhol painting. 19:22.300 --> 19:28.500 This is actually interesting because he's using a celebrity's image, and there's a whole debate going on right now. 19:28.500 --> 19:30.620 It's kind of like cutting-edge copyright. 19:31.040 --> 19:39.080 I'm sorry, not copyright, but a law debate about publicity images and whether or not celebrities can kind of claim ownership of what they look like and that kind of thing. 19:39.080 --> 19:42.900 And I don't think he got permission from Marilyn Monroe from this at all. 19:42.900 --> 19:45.000 And who knows if she would have objected. 19:45.000 --> 19:49.360 I mean, blue eyeliner is kind of hard to deal with, or whatever it is. 19:49.620 --> 19:51.980 I don't think he got permission for this one either. 19:52.360 --> 19:53.540 I'm thinking no. 19:54.800 --> 19:57.320 Alright, on to Jean-Michel Basquiat. 19:57.580 --> 20:02.360 He's another influential painter of the 20th century in America. 20:02.360 --> 20:04.200 He was actually good friends with Andy Warhol. 20:04.200 --> 20:06.980 There's some great books and information about Jean-Michel. 20:06.980 --> 20:10.900 He lived in the East Village, and so I kind of picked up on his stuff. 20:11.200 --> 20:18.820 If you look in the bottom right-hand corner of this image, I'm sorry, the Picasso stuff, the overlay is kind of taking over, but there's a little copyright down here. 20:20.180 --> 20:20.740 Yeah. 20:21.640 --> 20:31.620 Jean-Michel was obsessed with copyright and kind of like the idea that images were copyrighted and that he could use them and kind of claim domain over them in his own paintings. 20:31.620 --> 20:42.260 So, over and over and over again, you see his use of words and mass consumer ideas put into his art as kind of an appropriation. 20:42.260 --> 20:46.460 And people at the time saw this as kind of similar to what hip-hop was doing. 20:46.460 --> 20:50.240 We were using these samples from current life and we're putting them into our art. 20:50.240 --> 20:51.100 What time was this? 20:51.100 --> 20:53.020 This was like mid-80s. 20:53.060 --> 20:57.500 Jean-Michel died in 87 at the early age of 27 from a heroin overdose. 20:58.220 --> 20:59.660 He was a real rock star. 21:00.080 --> 21:01.560 This is some more of his work. 21:02.320 --> 21:06.320 He just basically opened up books and picked out words and put them in there. 21:06.320 --> 21:07.560 He also used images. 21:07.840 --> 21:12.360 He was a prolific graffiti artist in New York City at the time. 21:13.080 --> 21:14.700 Here's a picture of him with Warhol. 21:14.700 --> 21:15.700 They were really good friends. 21:15.700 --> 21:18.880 They both kind of dug on the idea of appropriation. 21:19.680 --> 21:20.800 Some more Basquiat. 21:22.360 --> 21:23.340 Universal up there. 21:23.340 --> 21:25.140 This is one of my favorites of his. 21:25.260 --> 21:27.180 I guess he really loved movies. 21:27.220 --> 21:31.120 So, I think Universal probably didn't sue him on this or didn't even bother. 21:31.120 --> 21:32.400 He even put the trademark notice. 21:32.400 --> 21:33.120 Yeah, yeah. 21:33.120 --> 21:37.640 I mean, his infatuation with trademark and copyright is throughout all of his stuff. 21:38.880 --> 21:41.820 Who knows if he would have gotten away with this now. 21:41.980 --> 21:43.940 Alright, so that's the end of my slideshow. 21:45.680 --> 21:46.560 Okay. 21:46.580 --> 21:55.500 Before I kind of get off the art kick, I'm going to talk about a contemporary artist that's doing similar stuff in New York City named Cory Archangel. 21:56.380 --> 22:01.260 Cory does some really cool stuff with Nintendo ROMs. 22:01.260 --> 22:05.920 He pretty much reprograms Nintendo ROMs to be art. 22:06.160 --> 22:10.580 He got one of his pieces was called the Nintendo Clouds. 22:10.580 --> 22:14.400 He got it into the Whitney Biennial in 2002, I believe. 22:14.640 --> 22:19.880 It was pretty much Mario without Mario or anything except for the clouds. 22:20.080 --> 22:21.440 I had a picture of it. 22:21.440 --> 22:22.880 Let me see if I can get it. 22:24.620 --> 22:30.940 Anyway, it was just like a Nintendo cartridge playing the clouds over and over and over again. 22:30.940 --> 22:34.500 The music was playing and it was kind of a sensation . 22:34.500 --> 22:37.360 That was all you really saw, but it was running from a real Nintendo. 22:37.360 --> 22:42.360 They had this whole set up in the Whitney where there's just a Nintendo thing sitting there. 22:42.640 --> 22:46.800 This is just a great example of contemporary appropriation art. 22:47.400 --> 22:51.120 This pretty much took the New York art scene by storm. 22:52.000 --> 22:54.940 Cory got pretty famous pretty quickly. 22:55.520 --> 23:01.060 Recently in February, he just showed this new piece of art. 23:01.060 --> 23:04.580 It's a 15-minute Mario movie where Mario goes to a rave. 23:04.900 --> 23:15.220 It's a little bit too long to play here, but he pretty much disassembled the entire Mario cartridge, reprogrammed it to himself, used all the sprites however he wanted, wrote new music. 23:15.220 --> 23:17.060 It's an incredible use of appropriation art. 23:17.060 --> 23:21.600 I'm going to show it now and hope the music's not too obnoxious for you guys. 23:24.940 --> 23:26.240 Oh, that doesn't look good. 23:26.440 --> 23:27.240 Okay. 23:28.960 --> 23:30.160 So this is the intro. 23:30.160 --> 23:31.760 I'm going to fast-forward a little bit. 23:36.650 --> 23:45.710 So a lot of the themes in this piece of art is that Mario and his images are kind of functions of our collective memory right now. 23:45.730 --> 23:47.650 And they're all deteriorating. 23:47.650 --> 23:50.930 So Cory's idea is to kind of rejuvenate them. 23:50.930 --> 23:57.750 So a lot of themes are kind of like this deterioration and that these memories are getting lost. 23:57.750 --> 24:01.430 So he uses a lot of kind of corruption of the actual image. 24:01.430 --> 24:05.950 And it's not that he's not a good programmer or didn't do it properly. 24:05.950 --> 24:12.610 It's that he wants to kind of reinforce the idea that we're losing the idea of Mario to nostalgia and that kind of thing. 24:12.950 --> 24:14.910 So I'm going to fast-forward a little bit. 24:16.630 --> 24:18.070 This is Mario falling. 24:18.070 --> 24:20.210 He's just done some really neat stuff. 24:20.210 --> 24:23.670 I mean, this is like pushing the Nintendo to its limits. 24:24.930 --> 24:29.590 And there's a whole narrative going on here. 24:29.590 --> 24:31.830 This is like Mario looking around for stuff. 24:33.070 --> 24:35.710 You know, this is kind of a bad part for him. 24:36.730 --> 24:38.450 Is this like a bad trip or something? 24:38.450 --> 24:39.050 Yeah, yeah. 24:39.050 --> 24:40.390 I mean, you'll see. 24:40.690 --> 24:43.230 He's about to take a mushroom, I think. 24:45.110 --> 24:49.790 So he's going to this rave and he's on his way there. 24:50.110 --> 24:51.390 Eventually he gets there. 24:51.390 --> 25:00.710 He's got to go through a lot of castles and there's a lot of jokes about the princess because as anyone who's played Mario knows, the princess is always the objective. 25:02.470 --> 25:03.990 So it gets pretty intense. 25:03.990 --> 25:11.530 And this is all just with 8602 assembly, which looks like the most nasty assembly you've ever seen. 25:11.530 --> 25:13.270 We included the code. 25:13.290 --> 25:18.870 Yeah, if you get the CD that Defcon hands out, you can download the ROM and do whatever you want with it. 25:20.890 --> 25:22.690 So this is pretty intense. 25:24.550 --> 25:27.130 Basically when he gets to the rave, it's just Pong. 25:33.910 --> 25:37.130 So it's kind of a meta video game. 25:37.570 --> 25:38.210 Right , right. 25:38.210 --> 25:39.710 It's kind of a rave scene. 25:39.770 --> 25:41.630 The original video game, right? 25:42.470 --> 25:46.990 So, Cory kind of operates in a copyright vacuum. 25:46.990 --> 25:48.950 I mean, I've talked to him a lot about this stuff. 25:49.110 --> 25:53.530 I mean, he just kind of wants to make art using Mario and that kind of thing. 25:53.530 --> 25:55.990 And it's questionable whether or not Nintendo cares. 25:55.990 --> 25:59.550 I mean, as far as I know, there's no official comment from Nintendo. 25:59.550 --> 26:00.970 He has not gotten any letters. 26:00.990 --> 26:02.870 There are no cease and desist letters yet. 26:02.870 --> 26:06.730 I mean, in theory, it could be the Walmart as key in promoting Super Mario Bros. 26:06.810 --> 26:07.510 Right. 26:07.510 --> 26:11.150 But the real question is whether or not Cory's work falls under fair use. 26:11.470 --> 26:13.430 And I believe it does. 26:13.430 --> 26:14.570 I mean, this is transformation. 26:14.570 --> 26:16.390 Fair use is a whole other big debate. 26:17.030 --> 26:18.870 I think they could have a decent case. 26:18.870 --> 26:20.070 Yeah, I think Cory could have it. 26:20.150 --> 26:21.610 Nintendo might have it. 26:21.790 --> 26:27.890 The fact that he's using Mario's image so blatantly is really a big deal. 26:27.890 --> 26:28.850 Especially the clouds. 26:28.850 --> 26:31.270 I think the clouds are now one of the fair use. 26:31.370 --> 26:35.990 So, Cory's done a lot of other really neat hacks with video game cartridges. 26:35.990 --> 26:48.090 One of his more abstract ones is hacking a Tetris cartridge so that the timer, the internal timer of the Nintendo slows it down so it's like super slow Tetris. 26:48.090 --> 26:50.690 And it takes like 10 minutes to do one line. 26:50.690 --> 26:52.050 So you can always win. 26:52.050 --> 26:54.090 So you can always win, yeah. 26:54.610 --> 26:55.770 So check him out. 26:55.770 --> 26:58.930 We'll have some links up that we can send you guys. 26:59.490 --> 27:04.650 But just a kind of contemporary example of appropriation art. 27:11.920 --> 27:18.180 Okay, so next we have a video from Matt Bosch who Elizabeth will talk about. 27:18.660 --> 27:20.900 It's very similar kind of video game art. 27:20.900 --> 27:24.100 Right, we're not solely advocating for video game art. 27:24.100 --> 27:34.260 I think these are two examples of combining technology and culture which is something that we very much support at our organization. 27:34.260 --> 27:42.540 I mean, we are talking about art and culture but I must say the main focus of a lot of the issues that we discuss is surrounding technology. 27:44.680 --> 27:48.580 So this is entitled Persistent Artifacts by Matt Bosch. 27:48.580 --> 27:50.480 It's currently in the New York Video Festival. 27:50.980 --> 27:57.180 And here he's mixing a childhood video with his first video game called Adventure on the Atari 2600. 27:57.180 --> 27:59.440 I don't know if any of you played it. 27:59.440 --> 28:00.220 Woohoo! 28:01.700 --> 28:07.960 He identifies that it's the shell of his past identity as an adolescent computer geek. 28:07.960 --> 28:10.680 He's actually probably now a 20-something geek. 28:10.680 --> 28:19.820 And he portrays his experience and interaction like when he was a child playing the video and this is his interpretation. 28:19.820 --> 28:22.060 Sorry, playing the game of it. 28:22.060 --> 28:27.300 And you can probably see now his image coming through from a family home video. 28:28.500 --> 28:39.680 This is an homage to the early lone Atari developers, as he put it, who created the game that shaped many of our childhoods, but many of whom remain unknown as a result. 28:39.840 --> 28:51.160 Apparently the author of Adventure, named Warren Robinett, refused to be forgotten and he actually implemented one of the first Easter eggs in this game. 28:51.500 --> 28:59.860 Because Atari would not credit the developers for the game, he hid his name in a secret room in the game, creating the first Easter egg. 28:59.900 --> 29:03.620 You can find the hidden signature by using a certain item in a specific room. 29:03.620 --> 29:05.420 Unfortunately, I don't have the details. 29:05.480 --> 29:06.940 I can try to find out. 29:07.740 --> 29:13.700 And subsequently he did leave Atari, but I guess his legacy still remains in the game. 29:13.980 --> 29:35.820 And I think this is also in a way Matt's reaction to how corporations were not giving the developers credit for their work and they were kind of taking the hands out of the creators and he wanted to kind of memorialize that as well in this work and reflect upon his experiences in doing so. 29:35.820 --> 29:40.500 So, you know, we're kind of showing all these examples of art and that kind of thing. 29:40.500 --> 29:46.220 I mean, there are entire genres of music that rely on appropriation and sampling. 29:46.220 --> 29:48.680 I mean, hip-hop is one great example. 29:49.000 --> 29:58.460 Electronic music, I mean, there's kind of this great brotherhood going on with electronic music where you can remix anything and get away with it and nobody's going to sue you for copyright infringement. 29:58.720 --> 29:59.020 And it's... 30:00.200 --> 30:03.120 It depends which fringes you get to. 30:03.120 --> 30:07.600 I mean, if you get more poppy, it's probably more likely that you'll get sued for copyright infringement. 30:07.600 --> 30:15.600 But there's a great wealth of electronic music that can be remixed and nobody will kind of think twice about it. 30:15.600 --> 30:25.300 First, the genre of hip-hop would probably not exist today if people were not allowed to sample and there were such perhaps... Right. 30:25.300 --> 30:31.160 There's a great book called Copyrights and Copywrongs by Stephen Vitahanathan. 30:31.160 --> 30:32.540 Who's a huge fan of hip-hop, by the way. 30:32.540 --> 30:32.800 Right. 30:32.800 --> 30:42.580 He's a huge fan of hip-hop and he writes this kind of history of copyright in the context of how it kind of gives birth to hip-hop or lack thereof. 30:44.260 --> 30:46.400 How it might have prevented the birth of hip-hop. 30:46.400 --> 30:49.940 I mean, hip-hop is predicated upon sampling others' work, right? 30:49.940 --> 30:50.540 Right. 30:50.720 --> 31:03.020 So, basically, what does culture and what does free culture have to say to the hacker community and why have we showed you all this art and that kind of thing? 31:03.460 --> 31:13.860 The big thing that we see, the big important part is that we see culture as technology. 31:13.860 --> 31:25.060 We see technology as an important part of our world, but one that hackers are fighting to kind of keep open and... 31:26.500 --> 31:28.120 Oh, I'm sorry. 31:28.640 --> 31:30.160 We're gonna get music up. 31:32.140 --> 31:39.640 Okay, so we're gonna play some music that's kind of indicative of remix culture and that kind of stuff in the background so you guys don't get too bored. 31:39.640 --> 31:40.360 I'm sorry. 31:42.600 --> 31:52.040 So, hackers fight to kind of keep technology open and investigable and they can go look and poke around and that kind of thing. 31:53.700 --> 32:04.500 our fear is that maybe people don't really think about how culture works that way and you need to have culture open and kind of you can play around with and that kind of thing. 32:06.220 --> 32:07.800 This is an example. 32:07.800 --> 32:10.140 This music in the background is the Avalanches. 32:10.400 --> 32:13.500 They've sampled over a thousand samples to make this record. 32:13.500 --> 32:15.460 It's a great record called Since I Left You. 32:16.500 --> 32:17.320 You should pick it up. 32:17.320 --> 32:20.640 Essentially, it is a collage of samples. 32:21.000 --> 32:27.320 In fact, they did clear, from what I understand, even a Madonna sample, which is really hard to find. 32:28.500 --> 32:30.760 Madonna cannot let you clear a sample. 32:30.940 --> 32:34.220 Part of the problem is the way the current system works. 32:34.440 --> 32:36.820 It was extremely difficult to clear all the samples. 32:36.820 --> 32:47.480 I know a lot of releases that are delayed or maybe they'll have to take out tracks because it is just not possible to do so and we feel that we really enjoy this kind of music. 32:47.480 --> 32:49.400 No, it may never be on the top 40. 32:49.400 --> 32:50.240 That's fine. 32:50.580 --> 32:54.200 We're not advocating that it should be on MTV 24-7. 32:54.200 --> 32:54.920 Right. 32:55.320 --> 33:03.920 A lot of people kind of think that well, why don't you go make music and just do whatever you want and kind of not worry about copyright. 33:03.920 --> 33:05.980 What if you just did that? 33:08.140 --> 33:10.800 Why does copyright have to be such a big deal? 33:11.340 --> 33:21.780 Our fear as an organization is that it's really going to sway a lot of people who don't really want to be illegal rebels and don't really want to break the law to make music. 33:21.780 --> 33:39.720 Some people are not as radical as you might be or we might be at Defcon and that kind of thing and really just want to play by the rules but if everything's kind of locked down and there's this increasing threat of copyright lawsuits then they're going to be much less encouraged to make new art. 33:39.720 --> 33:57.560 And the hacker community really thrives on the underground and it's really kind of a big part of the idea is to remain kind of under the surface but to the extent that you can do that in culture, it's not as rewarding because culture is meant to be seen and heard. 33:57.560 --> 34:03.660 You can post a mix anonymously online and people can listen to it but there's always an issue of identification. 34:03.700 --> 34:16.320 Right, there's always going to be this problem of how do you disseminate culture properly and with the really good hacks and that kind of thing they're under the surface and you might not even ever know about them and that's why they're good. 34:16.320 --> 34:17.740 That's not how culture works. 34:17.740 --> 34:32.580 So the worry is that if you just want to keep kind of working in the underground and we totally like underground and obscure music and that kind of thing but if you want to keep avoiding the spotlight because you're afraid of a lawsuit that kind of thing, 34:32.580 --> 34:53.780 it's going to really kind of short change your mission as an artist and our goal as an organization is to really encourage and foster the environment in college campuses and hopefully on a larger scale in the American public where remixing and hacking are video games and that kind of thing is looked upon as just the next step. 34:53.780 --> 34:59.720 It's just another tool in the artist's kind of briefcase of being in that kind of thing. 35:00.580 --> 35:10.460 So, I guess I wanted to kind of pimp or talk about CCMixter which is a kind of site that Creative Commons is running. 35:10.460 --> 35:25.940 If any of you are musicians or artists or anybody who just likes to tinker with music CCMixter is kind of a cool site where you can go and set up an account and download samples that are all CC-licensed and you can do whatever you want with them and put them back up and it's kind of like a social networking. 35:25.940 --> 35:28.820 It's like the Flickr but for music, I mean, hopefully. 35:29.420 --> 35:32.280 The music I'm playing now Let's Take It Back by Ashwan. 35:32.340 --> 35:33.640 Ashwan's a great artist on there. 35:33.640 --> 35:35.100 He's done like tons of tracks. 35:35.200 --> 35:36.840 His stuff's always awesome. 35:37.160 --> 35:42.820 He made a track about the London bombings maybe two or three hours after they happened and uploaded it onto Mixter. 35:42.820 --> 35:51.960 It's just a really great little environment where people can kind of remix and not worry about the copyright stuff. 35:52.180 --> 35:55.520 That's one of the possible alternatives. 35:56.160 --> 35:58.320 Do you know what license he's using? 35:58.320 --> 36:04.340 I think he primarily uses non-commercial attribution which means you can remix his stuff. 36:04.820 --> 36:13.000 But in this case, if you're planning on selling his music, since you were here for the last presentation, you're probably not okay to sell it. 36:13.000 --> 36:14.780 So it's definitely a compromise. 36:15.400 --> 36:42.480 It's a better way because he gets to make awesome music, put it online, thousands of people, if not hundreds of thousands of people download it every week and it's kind of the ideal that we want to see happen on college campuses is that people kind of sidestep these problems with copyright for the sake of creating a pool or participating in a pool of culture that's much more valuable and important because it's less regulated. 36:42.540 --> 36:47.200 And a lot of people have said, well, more culture is not necessarily better culture. 36:47.720 --> 37:02.720 And of course we would advocate for everybody to create their own works, but it's true, not everything out there, I mean there have been some internet phenomena where you have some Bulgarian guys singing, has anybody seen this video? 37:03.440 --> 37:19.380 Oh yeah, it's this kid singing, I guess it's a traditional Bulgarian song or something, but it's been remixed into techno , and it's just kind of funny and sad and weird at the same time. 37:19.380 --> 37:22.380 It just became an internet phenomenon somehow , not that we're judging it. 37:22.840 --> 37:28.160 It's up there with all your base as far as I'm concerned, but the question is whether or not that could happen. 37:28.160 --> 37:34.220 I mean, imagine the poor kid got sued for making that video when he was singing the techno remix of a traditional song. 37:34.260 --> 37:35.280 It's crazy. 37:35.280 --> 37:47.880 Our feeling is that even though there might be more culture out there with more Creative Commons licensing and that kind of thing, the kind of general way social networks work and the internet works is that the best stuff will kind of come to the top, 37:47.880 --> 38:02.380 and CCMixter among other software packages is really designed to encourage people to participate and comment and rate stuff, and it's not just like this kind of mass stuff that's kind of unrated and unjustified. 38:02.420 --> 38:05.640 You can trust your friends to recommend that kind of thing. 38:05.920 --> 38:08.200 This is Accufun who... 38:08.760 --> 38:13.560 I think they also use about 100 samples per song. 38:13.560 --> 38:20.500 Essentially what they do is they take really small snippets of music and then I'll make it louder... 38:20.500 --> 38:26.580 mix it together such to create an entire song like this. 38:26.580 --> 38:37.060 I do not know the copyright status, but they did clear the samples, but I'm thinking because they're almost non-recognizable they probably did not. 38:42.240 --> 38:44.660 We also have CC73 38:47.720 --> 38:59.200 another artist using a lot of samples, and I'd like to say these are not mainstream artists, I mean I don't know if you've heard of a lot of these people, but they definitely are getting attention in artistic circles. 38:59.560 --> 39:05.200 And again, some people have said, well, what if you want all this culture to be mainstream? 39:05.200 --> 39:07.560 I mean, isn't the point to be underground? 39:07.560 --> 39:11.180 And if you're going to be underground, you can still do things illegally. 39:11.760 --> 39:15.800 But we feel that there's a general chilling effect in society that... 39:15.800 --> 39:27.840 Like I was saying before, the idea that the kind of bedroom rocker is going to be suppressed into not making music could be the next John Lennon or something. 39:27.840 --> 39:29.880 I mean, who knows what could happen. 39:29.880 --> 39:39.100 I mean, there's such there's such propaganda coming out of the content industry right now that downloading music is illegal. 39:39.100 --> 39:44.200 I mean, that's really the exact text of their you know, their losses. 39:44.200 --> 39:46.960 And if you go to CC Mixer, you can download a lot of legal music. 39:46.960 --> 39:48.560 As much legal music as you want. 39:48.560 --> 39:51.360 I mean, it's endless, the amount of legal music that you can download. 39:51.360 --> 40:07.360 So, our fear as an organization is that there's going to be this kind of atmosphere of actual fear that you can't listen to music that other people make and that you can't remix it and you can't reuse it. 40:07.360 --> 40:23.240 Just because a corporation kind of has enough money to send out these propaganda campaigns doesn't mean that people shouldn't be kind of doing what their artistic, you know, sentiments would lead them to, you know. 40:23.240 --> 40:29.260 And plus, there's a large distinction between what was possible, say, 20, 30 years ago and what's going on now. 40:29.260 --> 40:32.440 I mean, you know, a lot of you, I'm sure, made mixtapes when you were younger. 40:32.820 --> 40:34.340 Those are physical copies. 40:34.340 --> 40:38.460 You can only distribute them to however many people you make that copy for. 40:38.460 --> 40:44.880 64 is the number of generations that you can make a copy of an audio tape with before it will be totally unlistenable. 40:45.000 --> 40:50.500 But, it's totally different on the internet as a copy is the exact same thing as the original. 40:51.020 --> 40:59.720 And some people may only intend to put something up on their site for their friends and family, but as we've seen with this Bulgarian techno guy, I highly doubt he wanted, like, the whole internet to see it. 40:59.860 --> 41:02.000 Things can be disseminated very widely. 41:02.860 --> 41:05.960 So, this kind of leads us to the end of our presentation. 41:06.760 --> 41:09.400 What do we want from you guys? 41:09.400 --> 41:11.800 And, like, what are we kind of talking about? 41:11.800 --> 41:13.080 What can you do to help out? 41:13.080 --> 41:14.040 That kind of thing. 41:14.140 --> 41:19.240 I guess the number one thing is to check out our website, join our email list, start talking to your friends. 41:19.240 --> 41:21.400 If you go to college, hey, start a chapter. 41:21.400 --> 41:22.220 It's really not that hard. 41:22.220 --> 41:23.260 I did it this year. 41:23.300 --> 41:25.160 Talk to some administration folk. 41:25.160 --> 41:29.020 The people at your school want to see you doing activities and that kind of thing. 41:29.020 --> 41:32.720 They really don't think that hard about the politics of your organization. 41:32.720 --> 41:44.320 I mean, it depends what university you go to, but more often than not, you could be talking about really radical stuff and just still be calling yourself some organization. 41:44.320 --> 41:45.840 They'll give you money. 41:46.080 --> 41:49.340 It's actually a really fun way to meet people and start talking. 41:49.580 --> 42:01.320 The only way we're really going to make a change is if we kind of get enough momentum as an organization ourselves and kind of start doing things, and that's with the help of you guys and your ideas. 42:01.660 --> 42:04.460 I think you did organize several events. 42:04.540 --> 42:06.420 Yeah, I mean, I did a couple events. 42:06.560 --> 42:09.840 We downloaded movies from thearchives.org and had movie screening sessions. 42:09.840 --> 42:11.040 That's just one idea. 42:11.340 --> 42:16.360 I know the guys at Swarthmore did a whole remix of The Night of the Living Dead, where it was kind of a film festival. 42:16.360 --> 42:18.160 They did some really neat stuff with that. 42:18.440 --> 42:26.000 I'm planning in the fall to bug my non-graduated friends at NYU to start a Creative Commons kind of art show. 42:26.000 --> 42:29.240 I mean, there's lots of stuff you can kind of come up with and ideas. 42:29.240 --> 42:30.400 Did you bring rock star speakers as well? 42:30.560 --> 42:31.940 No , we didn't get a chance to. 42:31.940 --> 42:36.280 Some other chapters have also brought in speakers on topics such as... Just get panels to your school. 42:36.280 --> 42:37.340 Get people talking. 42:37.340 --> 42:44.160 I mean, there's kind of a whole great opportunity in college to get political and active. 42:44.160 --> 42:51.920 And the movement, the copy left movement, and the free culture movement has yet to really totally solidify. 42:51.920 --> 42:59.460 So there's a lot of opportunity for people who might not otherwise be involved with progressive ideas and that kind of thing to get involved. 42:59.460 --> 43:02.340 And they don't have to say that they wouldn't vote for Bush. 43:02.340 --> 43:04.560 I mean, they don't have to say that they'll vote for Kerry. 43:04.920 --> 43:08.520 Right now, it's just like we want more sensible copyright laws. 43:08.520 --> 43:11.700 And I think people across all party lines can agree on that issue. 43:11.700 --> 43:15.560 I mean, I don't think it's solely restricted to one side or another of the political spectrum. 43:15.560 --> 43:23.480 One of the really big things that Lawrence Lessig stresses in his book, Free Culture, is that he advocates a common sense approach to copyright. 43:23.480 --> 43:32.720 And more often than not, when there's a lawsuit involving a teenager or a college student in copyright, common sense is really kind of thrown to the wayside. 43:32.720 --> 43:42.580 And it doesn't really take a political affiliation to realize that a lot of things that are going on with copyright lawsuits are destructive and cruel. 43:44.160 --> 43:48.200 So, yeah, one more thing before we close. 43:48.200 --> 43:52.600 I'm selling this t-shirt at the EFF booth, so if you'd like one... 43:52.600 --> 43:53.220 Come support us. 43:53.220 --> 43:54.120 Support EFF. 43:54.140 --> 43:56.560 Support EFF and support Free Culture. 43:56.560 --> 43:57.820 Go purchase one. 43:57.820 --> 43:59.720 We have mediums and larges. 43:59.800 --> 44:05.640 So, after that, I guess we can take questions or we'll talk to anybody who's interested in helping out. 44:05.680 --> 44:06.440 Yes? 44:35.700 --> 44:39.840 Well, I think we did make the point that we do believe I mean, what... 44:39.840 --> 44:41.840 What is the question? 44:41.840 --> 44:42.600 I'm sorry. 44:43.620 --> 44:45.020 It was a comment. 44:45.140 --> 44:45.840 Okay. 44:48.340 --> 44:49.340 Right. 44:54.830 --> 44:56.990 Well, I think Western music... 44:56.990 --> 44:59.190 The comment's talking about how... 44:59.190 --> 45:02.230 I'm repeating the comment. 45:02.230 --> 45:13.190 The idea is that music that we've been listening to the last 50 years is really just a synthesis of a couple kind of big... small paradigms that started off. 45:13.230 --> 45:17.150 And not even paradigms, but exact notes and pieces of music. 45:17.150 --> 45:24.970 I mean, how many rock songs from the Strokes to the Rolling Stones have the 12-bar blues or some variation thereof inside? 45:27.850 --> 45:28.790 Right. 45:28.790 --> 45:31.950 And it seems now that we have this great kind of opportunity to... 45:31.950 --> 45:34.130 He said it was triggered by electronics and technology. 45:34.130 --> 45:34.610 Oh, I'm sorry. 45:34.610 --> 45:35.870 I totally... 45:35.870 --> 45:47.130 Anyway, we have this great opportunity now to push that even farther and take the technology and make remixes to really extravagant lengths. 45:47.430 --> 46:01.550 And the fear... you know, we're afraid that that's going to kind of get clamped down on by a lot of people who kind of are living with the idea that records and CD sales are it to the bottom line of culture. 46:01.870 --> 46:04.430 And we don't feel that's the case. 46:04.430 --> 46:05.450 Actually, could I ask a question? 46:05.450 --> 46:07.930 Were you saying that we were under-emphasizing this point? 46:07.930 --> 46:09.570 Was that the issue? 46:22.220 --> 46:23.220 Well, yeah. 46:24.340 --> 46:26.440 You're saying, yeah, it's starting to happen with movies. 46:26.440 --> 46:28.260 You'll have digital video cameras. 46:35.020 --> 46:39.480 The comment was, what is happening with music in the last 50 years is now happening with video. 46:41.440 --> 46:43.160 And I think we acknowledge that. 46:43.160 --> 46:51.780 And frankly, I don't think our organization would exist or would have existed 20 or 30 years ago because it is the technology here that has enabled all this production. 46:51.780 --> 46:55.540 And now somebody can buy a digital video camera for a couple hundred dollars. 46:55.540 --> 47:01.200 It's not going to be the best one, but it is enabling creation on a grassroots level. 47:02.060 --> 47:03.960 That is definitely something we are supporting. 47:03.960 --> 47:07.040 We're kind of running out of time, so if anybody has any other quick comments... 47:07.040 --> 47:08.440 Yeah, back there. 47:10.500 --> 47:14.060 Yeah, we're big fans of Downhill Battle, or at least I am. 47:14.120 --> 47:15.800 They've been doing some really great stuff. 47:15.800 --> 47:24.980 They're coming out with some really kind of cutting-edge software that's going to let people share media and push the limits of remix culture. 47:25.400 --> 47:28.220 And I'm very excited to see what they kind of come out with. 47:28.220 --> 47:31.120 So, yeah, check out our website, then check out Downhill Battle. 47:31.180 --> 47:32.200 They're friends of ours. 47:32.200 --> 47:34.160 We actually have some shirts for sale. 47:34.160 --> 47:38.920 Yeah, contact us if you want some... Downhill Battle shirts that look kind of like the DEF CON logo, as you can see. 47:38.920 --> 47:40.040 She'll model it. 47:41.180 --> 47:44.700 Home taping is killing the music industry. 47:44.700 --> 47:45.820 Not the case. 47:46.240 --> 47:47.860 It's ironic, yes. 47:47.860 --> 47:59.280 Right, that was a real serious campaign back in the 80s from what I understand, and I think we've seen that it back then did not kill the music industry. 47:59.280 --> 48:06.360 In fact, people heard songs on mixtapes and then went out and bought things and found out about new artists that their friends were telling them about. 48:07.000 --> 48:12.080 So, if you guys go to college or want to get involved, please contact us, talk to us right afterwards. 48:12.080 --> 48:12.680 We'd love to hear from you. 48:12.680 --> 48:13.860 Or just about the general issues. 48:13.860 --> 48:15.400 We'd always love to hear your comments. 48:15.640 --> 48:19.680 It kind of starts from you guys and us, so we've got to start somewhere. 48:20.140 --> 48:20.960 So, thanks. 48:20.960 --> 48:22.800 Thank you so much for coming to hear us. 48:22.800 --> 48:23.260 Yeah.