[00:09.270 --> 00:16.710]  Good afternoon, appreciate everybody showing up. I remember the last time we were in a tent, it was about 114 degrees, but it was on the roof.
[00:17.030 --> 00:19.790]  And the air condition didn't work so well, so this is pretty good.
[00:21.310 --> 00:27.390]  This is, I guess, the sixth Meet the Fed panel. We actually were fed pretty well anyway.
[00:27.450 --> 00:30.570]  Meet the Fed panel that I participated in.
[00:30.670 --> 00:35.410]  And this year we went international, so we have a representative from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police with us.
[00:35.410 --> 00:43.610]  So, appreciate it. I'm Jim Christie. I'm a criminal investigator with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations.
[00:43.610 --> 00:46.990]  And I'm the director of the Defense Cybercrime Institute.
[00:47.190 --> 00:53.970]  What we're going to do this morning, this afternoon, is I'm going to do a quick bio on each of our members of the panel.
[00:53.970 --> 00:57.390]  Then I'm going to let them have a one to two minute opening statement.
[00:57.450 --> 01:02.710]  And I know Keith Rhodes will have to cut him off because he can't say anything in one to two minutes.
[01:02.710 --> 01:07.530]  And then at that point, we're just going to open it up to questions from the floor.
[01:08.550 --> 01:14.810]  So, let me start out with, they're not in any particular order, it might be an alphabetic order.
[01:14.810 --> 01:17.410]  Don Blumenthal, if you'd raise your hand, Don.
[01:17.810 --> 01:23.990]  Don is the Internet Lab Coordinator for the Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection.
[01:24.290 --> 01:29.690]  Mr. Blumenthal established the Overseas Labs Managing Consumer Protection Technical Support Group
[01:29.690 --> 01:35.550]  and provides technical expertise to investigations that involve system issues.
[01:35.850 --> 01:38.990]  His career also includes time with another federal agency.
[01:38.990 --> 01:41.210]  And I don't know what that means, Don. What does that mean?
[01:43.290 --> 01:44.810]  No comment. Okay.
[01:44.810 --> 01:47.590]  It's one that nobody's heard of. It's not that it's sacred.
[01:50.630 --> 01:56.910]  He's also had time in the private sector and as a legislative director for a member of the House of Representatives.
[01:56.910 --> 01:58.290]  Who?
[01:59.410 --> 02:01.770]  Louis Stokes, Northeast Ohio.
[02:03.870 --> 02:12.050]  In his alternate universe, Mr. Blumenthal is about to start his 23rd year as a part-time scout for the Oakland Raiders.
[02:12.450 --> 02:13.990]  So that's an interesting background.
[02:17.790 --> 02:20.390]  Ovi Carroll. Raise your hand, Ovi.
[02:20.390 --> 02:27.050]  Okay. Ovi Carroll is a special agent in charge of the Computer Crime Unit for the United States Postal Service.
[02:27.110 --> 02:29.250]  Office of Inspector General.
[02:29.250 --> 02:35.690]  The Computer Crime Unit is responsible for all computer intrusions, investigations, analysis and support.
[02:36.930 --> 02:43.030]  Technical computer surveillance equipment and support to other criminal investigative organizations.
[02:44.590 --> 02:49.310]  Ovi was also, he's a retired Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent,
[02:49.310 --> 02:57.530]  where he had 20 years of law enforcement experience with the Air Force before going into retirement with the Postal Service.
[03:00.450 --> 03:04.430]  Okay. Gauri, you're going to have to pronounce your name for us.
[03:05.850 --> 03:08.990]  Hi, I'm Gauri Dhanuam with the RCMP.
[03:10.110 --> 03:14.570]  My name is Gauri Dhanuam with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Ottawa, Canada.
[03:14.570 --> 03:18.430]  And I guess I'll let Jim do the rest of the talking on my bio.
[03:18.910 --> 03:21.670]  He was scared that he was going to bastardize my name.
[03:21.750 --> 03:23.770]  You glad to be here, eh?
[03:28.990 --> 03:33.830]  Okay. Andy Freed, I don't have a bio on because he doesn't answer emails.
[03:34.250 --> 03:36.690]  He doesn't know how to do internet stuff.
[03:36.970 --> 03:40.210]  But I've known Andy for, he's with the IRS.
[03:40.570 --> 03:43.770]  I've known Andy since about 1986.
[03:43.770 --> 03:48.050]  And I've got to tell you, in 1986 through probably 1992,
[03:48.370 --> 03:55.070]  all the investigative software used by any computer crime investigator worldwide was written by Andy Freed.
[03:55.150 --> 03:57.790]  In 1992 we found out it didn't work.
[04:04.650 --> 04:06.410]  Mike Jacobs.
[04:11.630 --> 04:14.310]  Wow, we've got a lot of NSA-ers here.
[04:14.570 --> 04:17.070]  Okay, if you're NSA, raise your hand.
[04:17.950 --> 04:19.170]  You're not.
[04:19.170 --> 04:20.690]  Yeah, why?
[04:21.430 --> 04:27.810]  Mike is the Vice President of SRA International, Director of the Cyber and National Security Program.
[04:27.810 --> 04:34.210]  Prior to SRA, Mr. Jacobs was the Information Assurance Director at the National Security Agency,
[04:34.210 --> 04:42.790]  responsible for development and provisioning of information security products, services, operations for the federal government.
[04:43.190 --> 04:46.430]  Also, Mike was the Mayor of College Park, Maryland.
[04:46.430 --> 04:53.050]  So whenever the University of Maryland won a basketball game or lost a basketball game and they burned down the city,
[04:53.050 --> 04:54.830]  Mike would be on the news.
[04:54.830 --> 04:56.650]  I'm sure that made NSA happy.
[04:59.650 --> 05:01.590]  Rich Marshall, Esquire.
[05:01.590 --> 05:04.150]  Also known Rich for a long time.
[05:04.350 --> 05:12.090]  Senior Information Assurance Representative, Office of Legislative Affairs, National Security Agency.
[05:12.090 --> 05:19.810]  NSA's Legislative Affairs Office, the agency point of contact for all NSA matters concerning Congress,
[05:19.810 --> 05:25.030]  is committing to maintaining a relationship with Congress built on trust.
[05:31.010 --> 05:34.490]  Their operating principles are the five C's.
[05:34.490 --> 05:36.950]  Oh my God, I can't believe you put this in there.
[05:38.250 --> 05:44.130]  CANDOR, COMPLETENESS, CORRECTNESS, CONSISTENCY, and CORPORATENESS.
[05:48.550 --> 05:51.690]  You've got more shit with you than a Christmas turkey.
[05:53.250 --> 06:00.070]  He was the former Principal Deputy Director of the Critical Infrastructure Assurance Office, the CHAO,
[06:00.070 --> 06:03.170]  Bureau of Industry and Security, Department of Commerce.
[06:03.170 --> 06:07.050]  Before joining the CHAO, Mr. Marshall served with distinction.
[06:07.050 --> 06:08.450]  You wrote this, didn't you?
[06:09.750 --> 06:15.330]  Served with distinction as the Associate General Counsel for Information Systems Security
[06:15.330 --> 06:21.190]  for the Information Assurance Office of the General Counsel's National Security Agency for over eight years.
[06:21.510 --> 06:25.670]  Mr. Marshall also represented the United States before the High Court of Justice in London
[06:25.670 --> 06:33.310]  and has addressed various international, Department of Defense, Army, Navy, and Air Force legal conferences.
[06:33.310 --> 06:36.370]  And now he has DEFCON on his resume.
[06:40.300 --> 06:42.060]  Mr. Keith Rhodes.
[06:43.880 --> 06:45.540]  No clapping, you notice.
[06:47.320 --> 06:55.840]  Keith Rhodes is the Chief Technologist and Director of the Center for Technology and Engineering for the USGAO.
[06:55.840 --> 06:57.440]  Anybody know what GAO stands for?
[06:58.840 --> 07:01.660]  Wrong. Wrong. They changed their name.
[07:01.660 --> 07:04.540]  It's the Government Accountability Office.
[07:04.540 --> 07:05.840]  Y'all failed.
[07:06.120 --> 07:14.120]  For the past ten years, he's led that team and has tested the information security of US government.
[07:14.120 --> 07:20.560]  As the investigative arm of Congress, everybody else up here on the panel just loves Keith and his folks.
[07:21.460 --> 07:25.960]  He regularly testifies before the US Congress and has addressed foreign governments,
[07:25.960 --> 07:31.760]  speaks publicly about the results of the tests and on the off chance that something might improve.
[07:35.100 --> 07:36.900]  David Thomas.
[07:37.900 --> 07:40.040]  No clapping for you either.
[07:40.940 --> 07:44.980]  David Thomas was designated Special Agent of the FBI in 1989.
[07:44.980 --> 07:50.340]  After completing training, he was assigned to the Tampa Division where he worked violent crime matters.
[07:50.340 --> 07:52.180]  So that's why he's here.
[07:52.930 --> 08:01.000]  In October 1996, Special Agent Thomas was promoted to the position of Supervisory Special Agent in charge of violent crimes and domestic terrorism.
[08:01.120 --> 08:07.500]  Upon completing that assignment with the Tampa Division, he was transferred to the FBI headquarters.
[08:07.500 --> 08:08.880]  Who'd you piss off?
[08:11.360 --> 08:13.680]  I did two years down there.
[08:13.680 --> 08:25.200]  In July of 2004, Mr. Thomas was promoted to the position of Section Chief of the Cyber Counterterrorism, Counterintelligence and Criminal Computer Intrusion Investigations.
[08:25.200 --> 08:30.560]  Additionally, he's responsible for the development of the FBI's Cyber Intelligence Unit and Cyber Action Teams,
[08:30.560 --> 08:35.760]  which deploy domestically and internationally in response to major cyber events.
[08:37.700 --> 08:41.680]  Dr. Linton Wells. A lot of you heard him speak.
[08:42.780 --> 08:45.080]  Who's sucking up over there?
[08:47.080 --> 08:53.260]  Actually, Dr. Wells was my boss when I was down at the FBI, so I'm a little pissed at you, sir.
[08:54.720 --> 09:10.760]  Dr. Wells assumed duties as the Acting Assistant Secretary on 8 March 2004 and became the Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Network and Information Integration on August 20, 1998.
[09:10.760 --> 09:18.560]  Prior to assignment, he was served in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy since July of 1991.
[09:18.680 --> 09:25.580]  Most recently as the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Policy Support since 1998.
[09:26.000 --> 09:34.340]  In 26 years of naval service, Dr. Wells served in a variety of surface ships, including command of a destroyer squadron and a guided missile destroyer.
[09:34.340 --> 09:48.800]  In addition, he acquired a wide range of experience in operations analysis, Pacific Indian Ocean, Middle East Affairs Network and Information Integration and Special Access Program Oversight.
[09:51.240 --> 09:56.260]  Wow, Dr. Wells was born in Angola. We won't tell him the year.
[09:56.260 --> 10:04.900]  He was graduated from the U.S. Naval Academy in 1967 and holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics and Oceanography.
[10:04.900 --> 10:14.880]  He attended graduate school at Johns Hopkins University and received a Master of Science of Engineering degree in Mathematical Sciences and a Ph.D. in International Relations.
[10:14.880 --> 10:23.320]  He is also a 1983 graduate of the Japanese National Institute for Defense Studies in Tokyo, the first naval officer to attend there.
[10:23.320 --> 10:32.460]  Dr. Wells has written widely on security studies in English and Japanese journals.
[10:32.460 --> 10:37.580]  He has co-authored Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War, which was published in 1997.
[10:37.800 --> 10:44.260]  His hobbies include history, the relationship between policy, technology, scuba diving and flying.
[10:44.340 --> 10:46.560]  So I read his whole bio because he is my boss.
[10:48.240 --> 10:54.960]  We have one other person on the far end. You can't see him. Raise your hand, Andy.
[10:54.960 --> 10:59.540]  The seat on your left, on your right, that's the CIA.
[11:05.440 --> 11:08.760]  The individual is actually sitting among you.
[11:09.520 --> 11:18.060]  Oh, I forgot Robert. We just added Robert Mars, Sr.
[11:19.820 --> 11:23.680]  I met Robert last year officially.
[11:32.460 --> 11:38.700]  Chief Scientist for NSA and the way I met him was through his son.
[11:43.480 --> 11:49.520]  So, pretty good panel. I'm hoping the questions are going to be pretty good.
[11:49.520 --> 11:54.280]  Before we start the questions, the panel asked me for a favor.
[11:54.300 --> 11:56.400]  They wanted to do a survey.
[11:58.860 --> 12:01.600]  Could everybody please stand up for a second?
[12:06.230 --> 12:09.790]  Okay, if you are with NSA, please sit down.
[12:11.770 --> 12:14.370]  A couple of wobbles there.
[12:14.370 --> 12:19.830]  Okay, if you've never broken the law by breaking into somebody else's system, please sit down.
[12:36.500 --> 12:40.020]  A couple of the cameras weren't working. Could you guys please stand up again?
[12:43.080 --> 12:48.760]  Okay, those of you, we did this five years ago and I can't believe you guys fell for it again.
[12:48.760 --> 12:55.100]  I hope you have clean underwear and a toothbrush because we've got the paddy wagons lined up out back.
[12:55.580 --> 12:59.300]  So, with that, what we're going to do is we're going to start with Rich and go right down the line
[12:59.300 --> 13:04.140]  and let everybody make a one to two minute opening statement and then we'll just open it up to you guys.
[13:04.140 --> 13:04.900]  So, Rich.
[13:05.060 --> 13:07.300]  Okay, I'm going to be real quick. A couple of things.
[13:07.300 --> 13:09.260]  This is a legitimate deadhead shirt.
[13:09.260 --> 13:11.060]  I am first generation dead.
[13:11.140 --> 13:12.700]  Spent a lot of time partying.
[13:16.350 --> 13:20.070]  Spent a lot of time partying with Jerry when he was alive and loved it.
[13:20.070 --> 13:23.990]  Never did or never have been caught doing the drugs.
[13:27.290 --> 13:30.470]  Tested 17 times at NSA.
[13:31.050 --> 13:33.950]  They recognized me when I walked in.
[13:35.150 --> 13:37.430]  I can't remember what year.
[13:39.010 --> 13:42.130]  A couple of other things you should know about.
[13:42.450 --> 13:44.110]  Jim mentioned that I'm a lawyer.
[13:44.110 --> 13:47.570]  I was the legal architect for Eligible Receiver 97.
[13:47.570 --> 13:49.630]  That was an important event.
[13:49.630 --> 13:53.930]  In the United States history because that demonstrated to senior leadership
[13:53.930 --> 13:56.370]  that information warfare was not a theory.
[13:56.370 --> 13:57.930]  It was a reality.
[13:58.210 --> 14:02.210]  And that was the time that Dick Clark decided he wanted to be a cyber security expert.
[14:02.390 --> 14:06.170]  And the two of the people that really were instrumental in helping make that program work
[14:06.170 --> 14:07.850]  are on the panel with us today.
[14:07.850 --> 14:10.810]  Dr. Lynn Wells, we worked very closely putting that together.
[14:10.810 --> 14:13.770]  And my former boss and great friend, Mike Jacobs.
[14:13.770 --> 14:15.670]  Just absolutely awesome guys.
[14:19.990 --> 14:23.210]  And my association with Bob Morris we can't talk about.
[14:23.210 --> 14:25.470]  But it was through him, not his son.
[14:25.470 --> 14:27.450]  He's an absolutely awesome guy.
[14:27.810 --> 14:29.650]  Tremendous respect for him.
[14:29.790 --> 14:35.410]  Last thing I want to talk about is we would love to have your resumes if you're clean.
[14:35.630 --> 14:37.810]  I'm not talking drug. Well, yeah, we are.
[14:39.310 --> 14:40.650]  40th slip.
[14:41.670 --> 14:44.150]  But particularly in today's environment,
[14:44.150 --> 14:48.390]  it's very critical that we have the best and brightest working on solutions.
[14:48.630 --> 14:51.390]  And work with us on those solutions.
[14:51.450 --> 14:53.690]  Come and join the team. Send me your resume.
[14:53.690 --> 14:55.910]  We'll make sure it gets the appropriate consideration.
[14:55.910 --> 14:57.830]  Fair enough? Thanks.
[15:02.480 --> 15:03.840]  Dr. Wells.
[15:05.620 --> 15:07.000]  You want to hear me in the back?
[15:08.440 --> 15:11.280]  As I mentioned earlier, for those of you who had a chance to hear it,
[15:11.280 --> 15:15.340]  DOD is moving toward this concept of network-centric operations
[15:15.340 --> 15:19.560]  which really puts a greatly increased premium on the importance of the network
[15:19.560 --> 15:21.620]  and thus protecting the network.
[15:21.620 --> 15:27.560]  We've got a very sort of worldwide heterogeneous complex set of missions
[15:27.560 --> 15:32.860]  which don't necessarily map to the private sector security concerns.
[15:32.860 --> 15:35.500]  And so we certainly don't have all the answers.
[15:35.500 --> 15:37.660]  And I second the point here.
[15:37.660 --> 15:39.800]  We need to work with you.
[15:39.800 --> 15:42.620]  We need to address your resumes.
[15:42.620 --> 15:45.500]  The point I would ask, though, specifically is
[15:46.320 --> 15:51.600]  what concerns me is not the kind of casual hacker for recreation or thrills.
[15:51.600 --> 15:55.420]  I'm really concerned about people who are trying to get into DOD's networks
[15:55.420 --> 16:00.000]  to steal the information or conduct attacks that disrupt what we're doing.
[16:00.000 --> 16:04.900]  We have people out there today from Afghanistan to Iraq to Darfur to whatever
[16:04.900 --> 16:07.400]  whose people's lives are on the line.
[16:07.400 --> 16:09.020]  They depend on these networks.
[16:09.020 --> 16:11.880]  And it's not just a casual thing for them.
[16:11.880 --> 16:16.540]  So what I'd ask is a little less noise in the system.
[16:16.600 --> 16:21.600]  The intrusions, the probing, the whatever,
[16:21.600 --> 16:26.820]  basically moves our resources away from things that really need to be addressed.
[16:26.820 --> 16:29.760]  And there clearly are people out there who are trying to do us harm
[16:29.760 --> 16:33.080]  and harm to the kind of values I think that most of us share
[16:33.080 --> 16:35.200]  about the value of information being shared.
[16:35.200 --> 16:36.640]  So I'd ask for your cooperation
[16:37.240 --> 16:41.220]  and I look forward very much to working with you and getting your ideas.
[16:41.220 --> 16:42.080]  Thank you very much.
[16:42.360 --> 16:43.340]  Thanks.
[16:47.650 --> 16:49.010]  Bob?
[16:50.890 --> 16:53.790]  I promise not to give a speech.
[16:56.170 --> 16:59.970]  I'm sorry. My whole speech is no comment.
[17:01.870 --> 17:06.890]  I will very likely, before the end of this, break that promise.
[17:06.990 --> 17:10.210]  But there's something substantive I want to say.
[17:10.210 --> 17:14.850]  The smartest and brightest of you, we need you guys.
[17:15.650 --> 17:19.610]  Two things. One is, if you're reasonably good,
[17:19.610 --> 17:22.590]  do consider seriously coming to the government,
[17:22.590 --> 17:27.890]  including my organization that also badly needs the brightest and best.
[17:28.090 --> 17:33.970]  There is one side issue, though, that you need to take care of.
[17:33.970 --> 17:37.490]  We would like to hire the best of you,
[17:37.490 --> 17:41.990]  and we will if you can apply and do apply.
[17:42.110 --> 17:46.510]  But there's a line. Don't cross the line.
[17:46.790 --> 17:48.910]  Others will say that to you also.
[17:48.930 --> 17:50.890]  Hey, it's okay to smoke pot.
[17:50.890 --> 17:52.770]  Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have said that.
[17:59.260 --> 18:00.920]  Okay, thank you, Bob.
[18:03.800 --> 18:05.680]  But don't get caught.
[18:07.340 --> 18:09.580]  Otherwise, no comment.
[18:10.500 --> 18:12.300]  And don't inhale.
[18:13.600 --> 18:20.880]  Just a little bit of a bio on myself here.
[18:20.880 --> 18:26.000]  I'm in charge of the network and information operations team in Ottawa.
[18:26.000 --> 18:30.600]  And basically, our team is composed of civilian members and regular members.
[18:30.600 --> 18:35.040]  And we are also looking for some talent to come to the RCMP.
[18:35.100 --> 18:38.660]  And it's an honor being in front of some of the brightest guys and people,
[18:38.660 --> 18:42.100]  young ladies and men in the tent here today.
[18:42.240 --> 18:44.100]  We investigate...
[18:44.100 --> 18:46.180]  He's talking about the panel.
[18:48.410 --> 18:49.640]  You too, Jim.
[18:52.820 --> 18:57.420]  We investigate unauthorized use of computers, mishifted data,
[18:57.420 --> 19:01.500]  anything related to computer crime incidents.
[19:01.500 --> 19:07.680]  And also, the tech crime branch is the contact for any international agency.
[19:07.680 --> 19:14.540]  We're 24-7, and so if anybody has any incident regarding computer-related incidents,
[19:14.540 --> 19:19.460]  they call us and we'll disseminate to the right agency within Canada.
[19:20.600 --> 19:22.100]  Thanks, Greg. Mike?
[19:28.710 --> 19:31.630]  I've got to bring my fan club all the time.
[19:33.050 --> 19:37.110]  After three years in the private sector, a couple of observations.
[19:38.030 --> 19:42.350]  My career at NSA, I worked predominantly with the Department of Defense.
[19:43.250 --> 19:49.190]  And now in the private sector, most of my clients are in the civil governmental side of the government.
[19:49.910 --> 19:57.450]  The conditions there are perhaps what the Department of Defense experienced 25 years ago.
[19:57.590 --> 19:59.510]  But they are improving.
[19:59.870 --> 20:02.110]  So too is the product space.
[20:02.110 --> 20:07.530]  Most of the failures that we're seeing today is in the human domain.
[20:08.550 --> 20:10.370]  Stupidity in many cases.
[20:11.330 --> 20:16.550]  Your skills and the activity that you're engaged in help us learn every day.
[20:17.190 --> 20:20.850]  But as Bob said, don't cross the line. We do need you.
[20:20.910 --> 20:24.630]  Both in the government, and we need you in the private sector.
[20:24.970 --> 20:26.670]  There's an awful lot to be done.
[20:26.670 --> 20:33.270]  Our near total dependency on the network today as a nation requires us to do the very best that we can
[20:33.270 --> 20:38.070]  in terms of improving the security and the integrity of those networks.
[20:38.570 --> 20:46.350]  Now last year when I was here, I had the opportunity to auction off to a single purchaser an NSA t-shirt.
[20:46.930 --> 20:53.590]  And that purchaser, BIT, gave me $60 for an NSA t-shirt that I didn't pay anything for.
[20:54.170 --> 20:55.950]  That all went to charity, of course.
[20:55.950 --> 20:59.730]  Now this year I have two NSA t-shirts.
[21:00.310 --> 21:04.190]  Is the guy here who bought it for $60 last year? Because these are different.
[21:08.530 --> 21:17.270]  Now on the other hand, I'm willing to trade both of these t-shirts, one each, for a legitimate resume of someone I can hire.
[21:18.350 --> 21:19.410]  Thank you.
[21:25.930 --> 21:26.970]  David.
[21:27.210 --> 21:29.930]  Thank you. Dave Thomas with the FBI.
[21:30.210 --> 21:32.810]  On behalf of the FBI, I appreciate you coming.
[21:33.050 --> 21:38.270]  Being from the great state of Tennessee, this somewhat reminds me of an old-time tent revival.
[21:39.710 --> 21:48.990]  If any of you feel the power coming over you, I just want you to know that we're authorized to take confession 24 hours a day.
[21:50.210 --> 21:51.650]  Please see me.
[21:55.130 --> 21:59.710]  I'm living proof that the FBI doesn't always hire the best and the brightest.
[22:00.570 --> 22:04.630]  For all of you, the rest of you out there, there is a chance. Stay with it.
[22:08.790 --> 22:09.670]  Keith.
[22:10.370 --> 22:13.670]  Hello, my name is Keith Rhodes. I'm with the GAO.
[22:13.670 --> 22:15.110]  Speak up, we can't hear you.
[22:15.110 --> 22:16.070]  Okay.
[22:17.790 --> 22:25.870]  What I would like to say is that five years ago, when I sat on this panel, I said the following statement.
[22:25.870 --> 22:30.550]  We always get in. Five years hence, we always get in.
[22:30.810 --> 22:32.510]  Is that short enough for you, Jim?
[22:33.050 --> 22:43.110]  If you would like to come to the legislative branch and test the security in the executive branch, give me a resume.
[22:46.810 --> 22:47.690]  O.V.
[22:48.930 --> 22:51.950]  I'm O.V. Carroll with the Postal Inspector General's Office.
[22:51.950 --> 23:03.210]  We respond to the incidents involving the 35,000 postal networks, as well as all the computer crime, computer forensics for criminal investigations,
[23:03.210 --> 23:06.330]  investigated by the Postal Inspector General's Office.
[23:06.330 --> 23:14.170]  We have an announcement out on usajobs.opm.gov for Dallas, Denver, L.A., and Washington, D.C. right now.
[23:14.170 --> 23:15.190]  Don.
[23:21.380 --> 23:23.500]  A little too quick, I wasn't quite ready there.
[23:25.060 --> 23:32.560]  I know a lot of people here have been at a number of these sessions before, but the FTC is new to meet the feds.
[23:32.840 --> 23:36.960]  So I wanted to talk a little bit about what we do and what our involvement is.
[23:36.960 --> 23:38.240]  Closer? Okay.
[23:40.420 --> 23:49.620]  I've known about DEF CON for years, really appreciate the opportunity to come because I've wanted to and now since I'm on the panel I can get the agency to pay for it.
[23:50.980 --> 23:56.440]  We're an independent agency and we're a civil law enforcement agency only.
[23:57.640 --> 24:03.500]  We've been in internet and online activity law enforcement for, I think our first case was 1994.
[24:04.220 --> 24:15.700]  And because of the wording of our mandate, which is one of the broadest in the federal sector, we can dabble in just about anything we think might affect consumers.
[24:16.140 --> 24:23.680]  So in the internet world we have dealt with good old scams, you know, the things that used to be in the back of the magazines but are now on websites.
[24:25.300 --> 24:36.260]  We have dealt with mouse trapping, page jacking, a lot of technical things that really, or techniques new to the internet, couldn't have been done before.
[24:38.860 --> 24:47.900]  One of our biggest areas right now, best known program I think of my division, I'm not mad, the division that my group's in is the Do Not Call List,
[24:47.900 --> 24:57.440]  which is probably, I think it's the thing we're best known for these days, but the other thing that we have going is our spam law enforcement.
[24:57.440 --> 25:03.060]  We were one of the earliest, we have the spam database, spam at uce.gov.
[25:06.660 --> 25:12.320]  Forward your messages to that address, they're indexed within an hour and there for us.
[25:12.320 --> 25:17.360]  And now other law enforcement agencies to use to find raw evidence in spam investigations.
[25:19.320 --> 25:23.480]  We, on the law enforcement side, we come at this from a little bit different angle.
[25:23.480 --> 25:26.980]  We are civil. I can't threaten anybody with jail.
[25:27.460 --> 25:34.640]  But on the other hand, my burden of proof is a lot lower than in the criminal side, and I don't have to prove intent.
[25:35.080 --> 25:39.740]  So very often we can make the cases that the crims can't, and frequently we work with them.
[25:41.300 --> 25:46.060]  If we decide it's crossed the line, we'll hand it over, that's happened in some phishing matters.
[25:46.060 --> 25:49.440]  We brought phishing, but some of them are beyond what we should be doing.
[25:51.240 --> 25:53.940]  The other thing is we do security cases.
[25:54.220 --> 26:00.800]  We have kind of marked ourselves out as big in the whole area of consumer privacy, consumer security.
[26:00.860 --> 26:08.360]  But the difference with us is, when we brought a security case, we have not gone against the people doing the breaches.
[26:08.880 --> 26:12.920]  Our defendants have been the companies who have allowed themselves to be breached.
[26:12.920 --> 26:19.540]  With idiotically, maybe that's a bad word, with weak security systems.
[26:19.540 --> 26:28.380]  On, for example, online ordering systems, or a wireless point of sale system.
[26:28.380 --> 26:30.740]  That case just hit about six weeks ago.
[26:30.940 --> 26:38.520]  So our view is more toward the consumer, and as a result, what the consumer has heard is more by the companies that are breached,
[26:38.520 --> 26:41.040]  rather than the folks who do that work.
[26:43.240 --> 26:47.800]  We've got some ideas for some other things, but at least that's the types of cases we've brought so far.
[26:47.880 --> 26:49.640]  Thanks, Don.
[26:52.420 --> 26:53.300]  Andy.
[26:54.540 --> 26:58.960]  Hi, my name is Andrew Freed. I'm with the Treasury Department. I've been there 17 years.
[26:59.100 --> 27:03.820]  For those of you who were not caught because my software didn't work, you can thank me later.
[27:04.860 --> 27:10.920]  When Jim Christie and I first got involved in computer security, there was no internet publicly available.
[27:10.920 --> 27:18.360]  It's been very interesting seeing how a lot of people have come up through the ranks and put together programs that were just amazing.
[27:18.360 --> 27:19.460]  Can't hear you.
[27:21.940 --> 27:24.120]  I like to mess with the sound guys.
[27:25.060 --> 27:30.080]  Basically, we want to say to all of you that if you're interested in law enforcement and you have a computer background,
[27:30.460 --> 27:33.200]  it's a really good lifestyle. It's a lot of fun.
[27:33.360 --> 27:39.120]  Sometimes people don't like you showing up at their doorstep, but for the most part, it's very challenging and rewarding.
[27:39.120 --> 27:45.900]  I would once again invite all of you that are interested in law enforcement to pursue it, try to stay as clean as you can,
[27:45.900 --> 27:47.760]  and see us after the show.
[27:49.100 --> 27:50.160]  Thanks, guys.
[27:55.600 --> 27:58.920]  What I wanted to say before we just... we're going to open it up to questions in a second.
[27:58.920 --> 28:03.480]  I need you to speak up because I've got the fans going. It's hard to hear up here.
[28:04.340 --> 28:06.140]  This is mainly for the media.
[28:06.140 --> 28:13.160]  After every DEF CON Meet the Fed panel, there are headlines that we all have to go back and answer for that says,
[28:13.160 --> 28:17.120]  we're here recruiting hackers, which means to our bosses, criminals.
[28:17.120 --> 28:18.800]  That's not why we're here.
[28:18.820 --> 28:24.300]  Like everybody here on the panel said, we're looking for the folks who haven't crossed that line yet.
[28:24.460 --> 28:29.160]  If you cross the line, we want you to stop because you're adding that noise to our networks
[28:29.160 --> 28:35.340]  where we're trying to prevent and catch the real bad guys, the nation states, etc.
[28:35.340 --> 28:40.060]  But if you've crossed over that line, we're not hiring hackers.
[28:40.060 --> 28:43.420]  This is just for the media because you guys don't get it right very often.
[28:45.660 --> 28:47.700]  That was the press booing.
[28:48.300 --> 28:54.420]  At that point, I also have t-shirts that are for trade.
[28:54.420 --> 28:55.200]  Ready?
[29:02.640 --> 29:07.240]  At the Defense Cyber Crime Center, we do have jobs available.
[29:07.240 --> 29:09.600]  You don't have to be a law enforcement agent.
[29:09.600 --> 29:16.860]  We have forensic examiner positions and programmers and engineers to do development,
[29:16.860 --> 29:20.400]  research and development of digital forensic and investigative tools.
[29:20.400 --> 29:23.520]  So lots of opportunities for those who are interested.
[29:23.520 --> 29:27.000]  Okay, let's open this up to questions and be loud.
[29:27.900 --> 29:38.220]  How many of these agencies here are hung up on the applicant requires to have a bachelor's degree
[29:38.220 --> 29:42.520]  as opposed to just experience, certifications, etc.?
[29:45.260 --> 29:51.460]  I'll start that. At the Defense Cyber Crime Center, you have to compete.
[29:51.460 --> 29:57.100]  But if you have experience, you don't have to have a degree to be a forensic examiner
[29:57.600 --> 30:01.980]  nor an engineer to develop tools.
[30:05.140 --> 30:07.460]  Anybody else on the panel want to take that?
[30:08.600 --> 30:11.620]  I have no hang-ups, nor does the organization.
[30:11.620 --> 30:12.400]  Louder.
[30:12.400 --> 30:15.320]  I have no hang-ups as to whether or not you have a degree.
[30:15.320 --> 30:21.720]  As Jim said, though, within any service, whether it's the government service or a large contractor,
[30:21.720 --> 30:26.720]  your competitive position relative to promotion and other things does depend upon the degree sometimes.
[30:27.020 --> 30:31.840]  But in terms of your ability to perform the work, whether or not you have a degree, that's what I'm looking for.
[30:32.160 --> 30:37.390]  Any reason why you don't have women on your panel?
[30:41.950 --> 30:45.670]  Is there any reason why you don't have women on your panel?
[30:45.670 --> 30:49.770]  No. No. Next question.
[30:55.840 --> 30:59.760]  I'd just like to say that three of my Deputy Assistant Secretaries are women.
[31:02.080 --> 31:07.600]  My boss is a woman, as well as we have one of our females out in the audience right now.
[31:07.600 --> 31:09.780]  She just doesn't want to come up. She's very shy.
[31:14.300 --> 31:22.540]  Gentlemen, this is not an attack against any one of you or your individual departments.
[31:22.540 --> 31:31.940]  However, I would like to know why the federal government, especially some of the law enforcement agencies, are destroying this country.
[31:31.940 --> 31:39.860]  And to clarify this position, I would like to read two paragraphs from the July 23rd edition...
[31:39.860 --> 31:42.480]  Can I see your badge? Can I see your badge?
[31:42.480 --> 31:44.940]  Why is it in your pocket? You hiding?
[31:44.940 --> 31:45.440]  No, sir.
[31:45.440 --> 31:48.360]  Oh. Okay. Is that a press pass?
[31:48.360 --> 31:48.900]  No, sir.
[31:48.900 --> 31:58.920]  Okay. The FBI is now under the full control of the Executive Office so that our President now has his own Gestapo.
[31:58.920 --> 32:01.000]  Then we have the National Security Service...
[32:01.000 --> 32:03.080]  They forgot to tell me that. I'm sorry.
[32:03.540 --> 32:09.660]  ...formed without congressional approval as part of the new anti-terrorism legislation.
[32:09.660 --> 32:14.480]  This new group has already been dubbed the SS. It operates under the...
[32:14.480 --> 32:16.480]  Okay. Can we cut him off?
[32:20.600 --> 32:21.720]  Okay.
[32:31.790 --> 32:33.510]  Anybody want to take that?
[32:33.510 --> 32:36.030]  Let's go back to that best and brightest scenario.
[32:37.170 --> 32:45.330]  I think if we had those capabilities, we'd brag about it. But we don't. We don't use microwaves. We're pretty on the up and up.
[32:47.250 --> 32:50.200]  I'd just like to know briefly from each of the members of the panel...
[32:50.690 --> 32:57.390]  I'm sure you're aware of the big Cisco thing that happened this week. I'd like to hear what the various agencies have to think about that.
[33:03.570 --> 33:04.410]  Keith.
[33:09.170 --> 33:24.130]  I think that if you have a fundamental flaw starting in the operating system, that's what we are fighting against.
[33:24.130 --> 33:27.410]  I mean, that's why I can get in. That's why you can get in.
[33:27.410 --> 33:39.890]  There's a trade being made all the time. And that trade is between operational whatever and security.
[33:39.950 --> 33:50.910]  And I don't know anyone. And part of me revels in this idea because that means I'm going to be employed forever.
[33:51.510 --> 34:01.350]  But I don't know anyone who's getting any corporate organization that's building software right now to do it right.
[34:02.790 --> 34:09.370]  Richard Powers in the audience, and he and I spoke at a software development conference, I guess it was in 2000.
[34:09.810 --> 34:17.110]  And I talked about how it was the fault of the people in that room that I could do what I can do.
[34:17.110 --> 34:28.290]  Because if I can utilize a buffer overflow because everybody's writing to the same address space in memory, then that software is crap.
[34:28.910 --> 34:40.850]  And it should be fixed. But I don't know that anything has happened enough to get anybody's attention except a bunch of people sitting in a tent in Las Vegas.
[34:40.850 --> 34:48.310]  I mean, you know, how many years ago did you lose 80,000 credit cards? Now you got 42 million.
[34:49.010 --> 34:57.050]  Anybody go to jail? Anybody get shot dead in the street over that? Anybody get hung from a tree? No.
[34:57.790 --> 35:06.310]  So I guess I have to turn it back to you. If you're expecting, you know, I'm not a law enforcement person.
[35:06.310 --> 35:12.290]  I'm just a tester like you all, except the ones who are working for the folks up here on the panel.
[35:12.370 --> 35:19.670]  But I mean, the other folks on this panel have credentials, right? But they can't execute laws that don't exist.
[35:19.670 --> 35:31.430]  They can't enforce something that's not there. So if the infrastructure is broken, or as Peter Neumann says so clearly, the infrastructure stinks.
[35:31.430 --> 35:36.110]  And it just stinks more and more and more and more because it becomes more complicated.
[35:36.230 --> 35:43.950]  Then, yeah, you can say, okay, Cisco this and Microsoft that and blah, blah, blah. And you can say, well, it's fine. I run WAPEX, you know.
[35:43.950 --> 35:53.990]  Well, great. It's got problems too. Everything has problems. So where's the result that's coming from you folks?
[35:53.990 --> 36:04.150]  I mean, yeah, you're out doing your thing and, you know, you're breaking in, which is kind of trivial because if you can't break a Wi-Fi connection with two tin cans and a string, you better go home.
[36:04.530 --> 36:12.630]  But the point is that you're doing what you're doing, but where's the result? When does it get to the boardroom?
[36:13.050 --> 36:18.670]  That's my question to you and to all of you. Because we can only do what we can do.
[36:20.330 --> 36:21.310]  That's it.
[36:25.490 --> 36:27.710]  Dr. Wells, did you want to respond on that?
[36:27.710 --> 36:34.790]  I'd just say from defense's perspective, the U.S. Surge has issued a vulnerability alert and we're taking action in response to the vulnerability alert.
[36:36.190 --> 36:38.050]  Next question. Yes, sir.
[36:38.050 --> 36:42.850]  This is a question repeated from five years ago, I think, just following up.
[36:44.270 --> 36:58.930]  Hey, to each of the agencies, as a parent and a teacher, what do your agencies now offer as far as internships, scholarships, and things like that to bring people to the good side, to have them work in your professions, to train them to be in your fields?
[36:59.030 --> 37:05.370]  I'll take first shot at that. We have four interns at the Defense Cybercrime Institute today.
[37:05.370 --> 37:21.530]  I was at Black Cat talking to several institutions, working with Jack Holleran. Jack Holleran hooked us up with a local university in Baltimore where we're going to kind of mentor the students that are doing digital forensics and offer internships.
[37:21.530 --> 37:33.890]  And absolutely, but the problem is we had a series of their Cyber Corps, which is a scholarship for service call.
[37:34.250 --> 37:36.310]  Hey, how you doing? How you doing?
[37:36.310 --> 37:45.770]  And what we were doing is all these institutions came to meet with us and they wanted to know what they should be teaching students so we would hire them.
[37:45.770 --> 37:58.450]  And mine was real simple. You've got to teach them not to do drugs and break into other people's systems. If you teach that, you know, the technology, there's plenty of technologists out there.
[37:58.450 --> 38:05.810]  So you've got to give us folks with the right morals and the right value set. Absolutely. Anybody else?
[38:06.490 --> 38:13.470]  Let's follow up a bit on the Cyber Corps. The Cyber Corps... okay, now?
[38:13.470 --> 38:26.050]  Alright, following up a bit on the Cyber Corps, there are 52 universities in the United States today that are capable of distributing scholarships and fellowships through the Cyber Corps program.
[38:26.050 --> 38:34.810]  Now those 52 universities are universities that have been designated as NSA Centers of Excellence in Information Security Education.
[38:34.810 --> 38:43.570]  What comes with a Cyber Corps scholarship or fellowship is essentially an internship and a job within a federal agency.
[38:43.570 --> 38:54.610]  It's an obligation of the student when they take the Cyber Corps scholarship or fellowship. It's essentially a service-for-fee situation.
[38:54.610 --> 39:04.330]  There are some 450 Cyber Corps students in the system today. And there are several hundred that have already joined federal agencies.
[39:04.510 --> 39:07.410]  Now that program has been quite a success.
[39:09.470 --> 39:18.550]  On the Canadian side of it, we also have co-op students who come within the agency and we see how they perform.
[39:18.550 --> 39:22.490]  They're there for either up to four months or eight months or it could be a year.
[39:22.570 --> 39:33.930]  And we monitor their progress and eventually, later on, if they do want to come back to the government agency and if their positions are available, they may get hired.
[39:34.190 --> 39:38.870]  So we do have a co-op program in place within the RCMP.
[39:39.650 --> 39:40.470]  Dave?
[39:40.470 --> 39:48.130]  Yes, the FBI has an extensive program of scholarships, tuition reimbursements. Detailed information is available on the FBI website.
[39:49.010 --> 39:55.910]  We have tuition reimbursement and we've also brought in Cyber Corps students and we have summer intern programs.
[39:57.370 --> 40:00.030]  We also have summer intern programs.
[40:00.570 --> 40:11.970]  We've got summer intern programs, tuition reimbursement, and I appreciate the question because it reminded me to ask some folks around here about us taking advantage of the Cyber Corps program.
[40:12.190 --> 40:15.590]  I'm not sure I would remember to do that without it.
[40:17.130 --> 40:20.430]  The IRS does have summer intern programs as well.
[40:21.210 --> 40:23.110]  So we've come some way in five years, huh?
[40:27.870 --> 40:33.090]  Line up over here.
[40:33.090 --> 40:46.970]  Actually, this is addressing the gentleman from the GAO, about your response to the question earlier.
[40:48.790 --> 41:01.570]  With what Michael did and Cisco and his own company trying to sue him for what he was doing to be a responsible action, trying to let the community know that this problem was there.
[41:01.570 --> 41:05.390]  Even though Cisco didn't want the information released.
[41:07.350 --> 41:29.690]  I'd like to know what the organizations that you all represent are doing to change the laws in this country to quit holding accountable the individuals that are releasing this information trying to improve things rather than make the vendors responsible for taking appropriate actions and releasing the information.
[41:35.380 --> 41:37.360]  One real quick thing, ladies and gentlemen.
[41:38.460 --> 41:40.140]  You can't spot these guys.
[41:42.200 --> 41:48.940]  Sorry. Please do not approach me after the panel and go, I spotted a Fed, and then drag one of these poor gentlemen up. That's just not fair.
[41:49.800 --> 41:51.660]  It's kind of like sleeping with your sister, you know?
[41:53.040 --> 41:54.560]  You slept with his sister?
[41:55.120 --> 41:56.120]  Your sister?
[41:58.440 --> 42:00.280]  Actually, yeah, your sister was pretty good.
[42:01.720 --> 42:03.100]  Better that than my mother, though.
[42:04.600 --> 42:06.720]  And by the way, Roy, would you stand up?
[42:07.580 --> 42:11.060]  Contrary to popular belief to remember, this man is not a Fed.
[42:13.040 --> 42:15.520]  Mystery solved. Thanks, guys.
[42:29.940 --> 42:32.060]  I forgot I stepped on you. Thank you.
[42:32.740 --> 42:34.900]  Yes, I'm with the mic now, sir.
[42:36.400 --> 42:43.840]  We are doing the Men of DEF CON calendar. We ask the women, and the women only, please, if there is a man you would like to see on the website in terms of the Men of DEF CON.
[42:43.840 --> 42:49.380]  Since we've exploited you guys, women, that is, for the last, God, how many years now?
[42:49.660 --> 42:54.760]  A lot of the women from the Women in Hacking talk have asked if they could exploit you guys.
[42:55.200 --> 42:58.620]  So the answer is yes, women. You are now able to objectify the men.
[42:59.660 --> 43:10.120]  If you find a man that you find would be a good addition, be he a geek and fatass like I am, or incredibly in shape like the gentleman behind me, that you would...
[43:10.120 --> 43:12.140]  You like big butts, sir? Congratulations.
[43:13.840 --> 43:15.740]  I think there's a song about that for you, sir.
[43:17.580 --> 43:22.540]  Please have them see Q. You can find Q through the information booth.
[43:22.600 --> 43:27.580]  Please make sure your subject is willing. Okay? We don't want you kidding them over the head and raping them.
[43:27.940 --> 43:29.480]  Oh, I'm sorry. Wait a minute. I didn't see that one. Sorry.
[43:32.120 --> 43:34.260]  Yes, sir, just bear with me here, okay?
[43:34.260 --> 43:36.720]  I realize you're not getting any, but some guys are.
[43:38.620 --> 43:41.360]  And it's not naked. It's shirt optional.
[43:41.360 --> 43:44.640]  And it's nothing nasty. It's just a picture of you on the webpage. Nothing identifying.
[43:44.960 --> 43:48.900]  It's just for the girls to vote on who's the sexiest guy at Def Con. So, thank you.
[43:55.240 --> 43:59.720]  Well, since I think the question was directed to me, I'll respond to it.
[44:01.480 --> 44:05.480]  We report what we find to the Congress.
[44:05.740 --> 44:12.520]  And we report what we find to the Congress in a way of saying, this is open and this is closed.
[44:13.260 --> 44:18.280]  So, what's closed information, we're telling them that the general public doesn't have it.
[44:18.280 --> 44:22.120]  And what's open information, we're saying this is what the public does have.
[44:22.120 --> 44:28.760]  So we make the distinction. It's up to the lawmakers to make the law.
[44:29.100 --> 44:31.240]  All we can do is tell them.
[44:31.700 --> 44:37.680]  Just like all the law enforcement people up on this panel can do is enforce the laws that exist.
[44:41.370 --> 44:42.850]  Next question.
[44:42.850 --> 44:47.710]  I'm really glad that the HR department prepped everyone.
[44:47.710 --> 44:49.310]  Sorry, I did have a question.
[44:49.490 --> 44:56.090]  And that was that when the Department of Homeland Security talks about very big concepts
[44:56.090 --> 45:00.610]  that can be boiled down to three words like critical infrastructure protection,
[45:00.610 --> 45:11.170]  how do you conceptually protect the nation's critical infrastructure from a grassroots effort, i.e. InfraGard?
[45:13.110 --> 45:15.310]  By doing something like this, I mean, it's very difficult.
[45:15.310 --> 45:19.190]  You can protect the planes, you can make it look good on the news,
[45:19.190 --> 45:21.990]  but in terms of affecting terror and things like that,
[45:21.990 --> 45:25.490]  there are many, many easier ways to do this that we know that we just cannot protect against.
[45:25.490 --> 45:33.430]  But what kind of grassroots efforts are you cultivating to try to at least reduce the risk exposure?
[45:40.160 --> 45:44.100]  I'm not sure I understand exactly the question, but there are, and you did mention InfraGard,
[45:44.100 --> 45:50.200]  and I'll answer because it is an FBI program, but InfraGard is a cooperation between the FBI and industry.
[45:50.200 --> 45:54.360]  There's over 14,000 members, and we expect those members to come forward.
[45:54.360 --> 45:58.740]  We share information with them on vulnerabilities and assessments and things that you don't get in the public
[45:58.740 --> 46:04.660]  because they're a part of that. And I know the Secret Service, they're not here, but I'll speak for them.
[46:04.660 --> 46:09.960]  There are New York electronic crimes task forces, which are similar to InfraGard,
[46:09.960 --> 46:13.840]  so there are a lot of efforts out there between us and private industry
[46:14.100 --> 46:15.680]  to share information.
[46:16.640 --> 46:19.760]  Okay, do we have time for one last question?
[46:19.940 --> 46:28.120]  I'm part of the Maryland InfraGard. The big thing we've discussed is how to build better education awareness to everybody.
[46:28.260 --> 46:32.380]  First they have to understand the problem before we can give them solutions.
[46:33.600 --> 46:36.040]  I've got time for one more question here.
[46:36.420 --> 46:40.960]  By the way, I teach security awareness courses for dummies with Wynn Shortoff.
[46:40.960 --> 46:47.600]  My question is back to the Centers for Excellence that you were talking about, Mr. Jacobs.
[46:47.700 --> 46:52.420]  And three or four years ago I was at Syracuse University as a reporter for Computer World,
[46:52.420 --> 47:00.120]  and I was covering the master's program as they were undergoing the criteria exchange to become a Center for Excellence.
[47:00.240 --> 47:05.300]  In the master's program, and I wrote about this, there were 32 students.
[47:05.300 --> 47:10.460]  One of them was American. The rest of them were from the Pacific Rim and the Middle East.
[47:10.960 --> 47:17.300]  And I was wondering what we can do to protect our educational outreach so that it goes to the right people.
[47:29.810 --> 47:40.750]  To be a member of the Cyber Corps, you are looking for Americans that are clearable, for the most part, at the end of the day.
[47:41.390 --> 47:48.890]  To suggest that our educational system, however, should restrict its offerings only to Americans generally...
[47:48.890 --> 47:54.990]  Are there any academics in the room? I think you'd have a real serious problem with that.
[47:57.390 --> 48:00.770]  Your observation at Syracuse is no different than mine.
[48:00.770 --> 48:12.490]  When I used to visit NSA Centers of Excellence at some of the earlier schools, I was struck by the composition of the classes that I was addressing.
[48:13.230 --> 48:17.120]  Perhaps better than 60% of them were not Americans.
[48:17.880 --> 48:23.440]  That's just the price you pay for having a premier educational system.
[48:24.060 --> 48:28.920]  And the education we dispense is helping people globally.
[48:33.990 --> 48:36.830]  Anybody else want to take a shot at that?
[48:37.730 --> 48:39.090]  May I?
[48:39.090 --> 48:40.650]  Absolutely, Bob.
[48:44.910 --> 48:47.270]  Hey, too soon.
[48:49.330 --> 48:54.630]  We would like to hire you. Please don't cross the line.
[48:59.740 --> 49:03.800]  That concludes the Meet the Fed panel. Thank you, guys. Got t-shirts.