WEBVTT 00:09.270 --> 00:11.850 Good afternoon, appreciate everybody showing up. 00:12.190 --> 00:16.710 I remember the last time we were in a tent, it was about 114 degrees, but it was on the roof. 00:17.030 --> 00:19.790 And the air condition didn't work so well, so this is pretty good. 00:21.310 --> 00:24.870 This is, I guess, the sixth Meet the Fed panel. 00:24.870 --> 00:27.390 We actually were fed pretty well anyway. 00:27.450 --> 00:30.570 Meet the Fed panel that I participated in. 00:30.670 --> 00:35.410 And this year we went international, so we have a representative from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police with us. 00:35.410 --> 00:38.230 So, appreciate it. 00:38.230 --> 00:39.410 I'm Jim Christie. 00:39.490 --> 00:43.610 I'm a criminal investigator with the Air Force Office of Special Investigations. 00:43.610 --> 00:46.990 And I'm the director of the Defense Cybercrime Institute. 00:47.190 --> 00:53.970 What we're going to do this morning, this afternoon, is I'm going to do a quick bio on each of our members of the panel. 00:53.970 --> 00:57.390 Then I'm going to let them have a one to two minute opening statement. 00:57.450 --> 01:02.710 And I know Keith Rhodes will have to cut him off because he can't say anything in one to two minutes. 01:02.710 --> 01:07.530 And then at that point, we're just going to open it up to questions from the floor. 01:08.550 --> 01:14.810 So, let me start out with, they're not in any particular order, it might be an alphabetic order. 01:14.810 --> 01:17.410 Don Blumenthal, if you'd raise your hand, Don. 01:17.810 --> 01:23.990 Don is the Internet Lab Coordinator for the Federal Trade Commission, Bureau of Consumer Protection. 01:24.290 --> 01:24.610 Mr. 01:24.610 --> 01:35.550 Blumenthal established the Overseas Labs Managing Consumer Protection Technical Support Group and provides technical expertise to investigations that involve system issues. 01:35.850 --> 01:38.990 His career also includes time with another federal agency. 01:38.990 --> 01:40.270 And I don't know what that means, Don. 01:40.270 --> 01:41.210 What does that mean? 01:43.290 --> 01:44.450 No comment. 01:44.450 --> 01:44.810 Okay. 01:44.810 --> 01:46.270 It's one that nobody's heard of. 01:46.270 --> 01:47.590 It's not that it's sacred. 01:50.630 --> 01:56.910 He's also had time in the private sector and as a legislative director for a member of the House of Representatives. 01:56.910 --> 01:58.290 Who? 01:59.410 --> 02:01.770 Louis Stokes, Northeast Ohio. 02:03.870 --> 02:05.730 In his alternate universe, Mr. 02:05.730 --> 02:12.050 Blumenthal is about to start his 23rd year as a part-time scout for the Oakland Raiders. 02:12.450 --> 02:13.990 So that's an interesting background. 02:17.790 --> 02:18.990 Ovi Carroll. 02:18.990 --> 02:20.390 Raise your hand, Ovi. 02:20.390 --> 02:21.510 Okay. 02:21.870 --> 02:27.050 Ovi Carroll is a special agent in charge of the Computer Crime Unit for the United States Postal Service. 02:27.110 --> 02:29.250 Office of Inspector General. 02:29.250 --> 02:35.690 The Computer Crime Unit is responsible for all computer intrusions, investigations, analysis and support. 02:36.930 --> 02:43.030 Technical computer surveillance equipment and support to other criminal investigative organizations. 02:44.590 --> 02:57.530 Ovi was also, he's a retired Air Force Office of Special Investigations agent, where he had 20 years of law enforcement experience with the Air Force before going into retirement with the Postal Service. 03:00.450 --> 03:01.230 Okay. 03:01.330 --> 03:04.430 Gauri, you're going to have to pronounce your name for us. 03:05.850 --> 03:08.990 Hi, I'm Gauri Dhanuam with the RCMP. 03:10.110 --> 03:14.570 My name is Gauri Dhanuam with the Royal Canadian Mounted Police in Ottawa, Canada. 03:14.570 --> 03:18.430 And I guess I'll let Jim do the rest of the talking on my bio. 03:18.910 --> 03:21.670 He was scared that he was going to bastardize my name. 03:21.750 --> 03:23.770 You glad to be here, eh? 03:28.990 --> 03:29.670 Okay. 03:29.670 --> 03:33.830 Andy Freed, I don't have a bio on because he doesn't answer emails. 03:34.250 --> 03:36.690 He doesn't know how to do internet stuff. 03:36.970 --> 03:40.210 But I've known Andy for, he's with the IRS. 03:40.570 --> 03:43.770 I've known Andy since about 1986. 03:43.770 --> 03:55.070 And I've got to tell you, in 1986 through probably 1992, all the investigative software used by any computer crime investigator worldwide was written by Andy Freed. 03:55.150 --> 03:57.790 In 1992 we found out it didn't work. 04:04.650 --> 04:06.410 Mike Jacobs. 04:11.630 --> 04:14.310 Wow, we've got a lot of NSA-ers here. 04:14.570 --> 04:17.070 Okay, if you're NSA, raise your hand. 04:17.950 --> 04:19.170 You're not. 04:19.170 --> 04:20.690 Yeah, why? 04:21.430 --> 04:27.810 Mike is the Vice President of SRA International, Director of the Cyber and National Security Program. 04:27.810 --> 04:29.590 Prior to SRA, Mr. 04:29.590 --> 04:42.790 Jacobs was the Information Assurance Director at the National Security Agency, responsible for development and provisioning of information security products, services, operations for the federal government. 04:43.190 --> 04:46.430 Also, Mike was the Mayor of College Park, Maryland. 04:46.430 --> 04:54.830 So whenever the University of Maryland won a basketball game or lost a basketball game and they burned down the city, Mike would be on the news. 04:54.830 --> 04:56.650 I'm sure that made NSA happy. 04:59.650 --> 05:01.590 Rich Marshall, Esquire. 05:01.590 --> 05:04.150 Also known Rich for a long time. 05:04.350 --> 05:12.090 Senior Information Assurance Representative, Office of Legislative Affairs, National Security Agency. 05:12.090 --> 05:25.030 NSA's Legislative Affairs Office, the agency point of contact for all NSA matters concerning Congress, is committing to maintaining a relationship with Congress built on trust. 05:31.010 --> 05:34.490 Their operating principles are the five C's. 05:34.490 --> 05:36.950 Oh my God, I can't believe you put this in there. 05:38.250 --> 05:44.130 CANDOR, COMPLETENESS, CORRECTNESS, CONSISTENCY, and CORPORATENESS. 05:48.550 --> 05:51.690 You've got more shit with you than a Christmas turkey. 05:53.250 --> 06:03.170 He was the former Principal Deputy Director of the Critical Infrastructure Assurance Office, the CHAO, Bureau of Industry and Security, Department of Commerce. 06:03.170 --> 06:04.870 Before joining the CHAO, Mr. 06:04.870 --> 06:07.050 Marshall served with distinction. 06:07.050 --> 06:08.450 You wrote this, didn't you? 06:09.750 --> 06:21.190 Served with distinction as the Associate General Counsel for Information Systems Security for the Information Assurance Office of the General Counsel's National Security Agency for over eight years. 06:21.510 --> 06:21.810 Mr. 06:21.810 --> 06:33.310 Marshall also represented the United States before the High Court of Justice in London and has addressed various international, Department of Defense, Army, Navy, and Air Force legal conferences. 06:33.310 --> 06:36.370 And now he has DEFCON on his resume. 06:40.300 --> 06:40.900 Mr. 06:40.900 --> 06:42.060 Keith Rhodes. 06:43.880 --> 06:45.540 No clapping, you notice. 06:47.320 --> 06:55.840 Keith Rhodes is the Chief Technologist and Director of the Center for Technology and Engineering for the USGAO. 06:55.840 --> 06:57.440 Anybody know what GAO stands for? 06:58.840 --> 06:59.700 Wrong. 06:59.700 --> 07:00.320 Wrong. 07:00.320 --> 07:01.660 They changed their name. 07:01.660 --> 07:04.540 It's the Government Accountability Office. 07:04.540 --> 07:05.840 Y'all failed. 07:06.120 --> 07:14.120 For the past ten years, he's led that team and has tested the information security of US government. 07:14.120 --> 07:20.560 As the investigative arm of Congress, everybody else up here on the panel just loves Keith and his folks. 07:21.460 --> 07:31.760 He regularly testifies before the US Congress and has addressed foreign governments, speaks publicly about the results of the tests and on the off chance that something might improve. 07:35.100 --> 07:36.900 David Thomas. 07:37.900 --> 07:40.040 No clapping for you either. 07:40.940 --> 07:44.980 David Thomas was designated Special Agent of the FBI in 1989. 07:44.980 --> 07:50.340 After completing training, he was assigned to the Tampa Division where he worked violent crime matters. 07:50.340 --> 07:52.180 So that's why he's here. 07:52.930 --> 08:01.000 In October 1996, Special Agent Thomas was promoted to the position of Supervisory Special Agent in charge of violent crimes and domestic terrorism. 08:01.120 --> 08:07.500 Upon completing that assignment with the Tampa Division, he was transferred to the FBI headquarters. 08:07.500 --> 08:08.880 Who'd you piss off? 08:11.360 --> 08:13.680 I did two years down there. 08:13.680 --> 08:15.700 In July of 2004, Mr. 08:15.700 --> 08:25.200 Thomas was promoted to the position of Section Chief of the Cyber Counterterrorism, Counterintelligence and Criminal Computer Intrusion Investigations. 08:25.200 --> 08:35.760 Additionally, he's responsible for the development of the FBI's Cyber Intelligence Unit and Cyber Action Teams, which deploy domestically and internationally in response to major cyber events. 08:37.700 --> 08:38.420 Dr. 08:38.420 --> 08:39.400 Linton Wells. 08:39.400 --> 08:41.680 A lot of you heard him speak. 08:42.780 --> 08:45.080 Who's sucking up over there? 08:47.080 --> 08:48.120 Actually, Dr. 08:48.120 --> 08:53.260 Wells was my boss when I was down at the FBI, so I'm a little pissed at you, sir. 08:54.720 --> 08:55.840 Dr. 08:57.000 --> 09:10.760 Wells assumed duties as the Acting Assistant Secretary on 8 March 2004 and became the Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense for Network and Information Integration on August 20, 1998. 09:10.760 --> 09:18.560 Prior to assignment, he was served in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Policy since July of 1991. 09:18.680 --> 09:25.580 Most recently as the Deputy Undersecretary of Defense Policy Support since 1998. 09:26.000 --> 09:28.100 In 26 years of naval service, Dr. 09:28.100 --> 09:34.340 Wells served in a variety of surface ships, including command of a destroyer squadron and a guided missile destroyer. 09:34.340 --> 09:48.800 In addition, he acquired a wide range of experience in operations analysis, Pacific Indian Ocean, Middle East Affairs Network and Information Integration and Special Access Program Oversight. 09:51.240 --> 09:52.180 Wow, Dr. 09:52.180 --> 09:54.560 Wells was born in Angola. 09:54.760 --> 09:56.260 We won't tell him the year. 09:56.260 --> 09:59.320 He was graduated from the U.S. 09:59.320 --> 10:04.900 Naval Academy in 1967 and holds a Bachelor of Science degree in Physics and Oceanography. 10:04.900 --> 10:13.220 He attended graduate school at Johns Hopkins University and received a Master of Science of Engineering degree in Mathematical Sciences and a Ph.D. 10:13.220 --> 10:14.880 in International Relations. 10:14.880 --> 10:23.320 He is also a 1983 graduate of the Japanese National Institute for Defense Studies in Tokyo, the first naval officer to attend there. 10:23.320 --> 10:23.740 Dr. 10:23.740 --> 10:32.460 Wells has written widely on security studies in English and Japanese journals. 10:32.460 --> 10:37.580 He has co-authored Japanese Cruisers of the Pacific War, which was published in 1997. 10:37.800 --> 10:44.260 His hobbies include history, the relationship between policy, technology, scuba diving and flying. 10:44.340 --> 10:46.560 So I read his whole bio because he is my boss. 10:48.240 --> 10:51.620 We have one other person on the far end. 10:52.060 --> 10:53.620 You can't see him. 10:53.620 --> 10:54.960 Raise your hand, Andy. 10:54.960 --> 10:59.540 The seat on your left, on your right, that's the CIA. 11:05.440 --> 11:08.760 The individual is actually sitting among you. 11:09.520 --> 11:15.140 Oh, I forgot Robert. 11:15.140 --> 11:18.060 We just added Robert Mars, Sr. 11:19.820 --> 11:23.680 I met Robert last year officially. 11:32.460 --> 11:38.700 Chief Scientist for NSA and the way I met him was through his son. 11:43.480 --> 11:47.020 So, pretty good panel. 11:47.020 --> 11:49.520 I'm hoping the questions are going to be pretty good. 11:49.520 --> 11:54.280 Before we start the questions, the panel asked me for a favor. 11:54.300 --> 11:56.400 They wanted to do a survey. 11:58.860 --> 12:01.600 Could everybody please stand up for a second? 12:06.230 --> 12:09.790 Okay, if you are with NSA, please sit down. 12:11.770 --> 12:14.370 A couple of wobbles there. 12:14.370 --> 12:19.830 Okay, if you've never broken the law by breaking into somebody else's system, please sit down. 12:36.500 --> 12:38.500 A couple of the cameras weren't working. 12:38.500 --> 12:40.020 Could you guys please stand up again? 12:43.080 --> 12:48.760 Okay, those of you, we did this five years ago and I can't believe you guys fell for it again. 12:48.760 --> 12:55.100 I hope you have clean underwear and a toothbrush because we've got the paddy wagons lined up out back. 12:55.580 --> 13:04.140 So, with that, what we're going to do is we're going to start with Rich and go right down the line and let everybody make a one to two minute opening statement and then we'll just open it up to you guys. 13:04.140 --> 13:04.900 So, Rich. 13:05.060 --> 13:06.560 Okay, I'm going to be real quick. 13:06.560 --> 13:07.300 A couple of things. 13:07.300 --> 13:09.260 This is a legitimate deadhead shirt. 13:09.260 --> 13:11.060 I am first generation dead. 13:11.140 --> 13:12.700 Spent a lot of time partying. 13:16.350 --> 13:20.070 Spent a lot of time partying with Jerry when he was alive and loved it. 13:20.070 --> 13:23.990 Never did or never have been caught doing the drugs. 13:27.290 --> 13:30.470 Tested 17 times at NSA. 13:31.050 --> 13:33.950 They recognized me when I walked in. 13:35.150 --> 13:37.430 I can't remember what year. 13:39.010 --> 13:42.130 A couple of other things you should know about. 13:42.450 --> 13:44.110 Jim mentioned that I'm a lawyer. 13:44.110 --> 13:47.570 I was the legal architect for Eligible Receiver 97. 13:47.570 --> 13:49.630 That was an important event. 13:49.630 --> 13:56.370 In the United States history because that demonstrated to senior leadership that information warfare was not a theory. 13:56.370 --> 13:57.930 It was a reality. 13:58.210 --> 14:02.210 And that was the time that Dick Clark decided he wanted to be a cyber security expert. 14:02.390 --> 14:07.850 And the two of the people that really were instrumental in helping make that program work are on the panel with us today. 14:07.850 --> 14:08.230 Dr. 14:08.230 --> 14:10.810 Lynn Wells, we worked very closely putting that together. 14:10.810 --> 14:13.770 And my former boss and great friend, Mike Jacobs. 14:13.770 --> 14:15.670 Just absolutely awesome guys. 14:19.990 --> 14:23.210 And my association with Bob Morris we can't talk about. 14:23.210 --> 14:25.470 But it was through him, not his son. 14:25.470 --> 14:27.450 He's an absolutely awesome guy. 14:27.810 --> 14:29.650 Tremendous respect for him. 14:29.790 --> 14:35.410 Last thing I want to talk about is we would love to have your resumes if you're clean. 14:35.630 --> 14:36.690 I'm not talking drug. 14:36.690 --> 14:37.810 Well, yeah, we are. 14:39.310 --> 14:40.650 40th slip. 14:41.670 --> 14:48.390 But particularly in today's environment, it's very critical that we have the best and brightest working on solutions. 14:48.630 --> 14:51.390 And work with us on those solutions. 14:51.450 --> 14:52.550 Come and join the team. 14:52.550 --> 14:53.690 Send me your resume. 14:53.690 --> 14:55.910 We'll make sure it gets the appropriate consideration. 14:55.910 --> 14:56.830 Fair enough? 14:57.010 --> 14:57.830 Thanks. 15:02.480 --> 15:03.040 Dr. 15:03.040 --> 15:03.840 Wells. 15:05.620 --> 15:07.000 You want to hear me in the back? 15:08.440 --> 15:21.620 As I mentioned earlier, for those of you who had a chance to hear it, DOD is moving toward this concept of network-centric operations which really puts a greatly increased premium on the importance of the network and thus protecting the network. 15:21.620 --> 15:32.860 We've got a very sort of worldwide heterogeneous complex set of missions which don't necessarily map to the private sector security concerns. 15:32.860 --> 15:35.500 And so we certainly don't have all the answers. 15:35.500 --> 15:37.660 And I second the point here. 15:37.660 --> 15:39.800 We need to work with you. 15:39.800 --> 15:42.620 We need to address your resumes. 15:42.620 --> 15:51.600 The point I would ask, though, specifically is what concerns me is not the kind of casual hacker for recreation or thrills. 15:51.600 --> 16:00.000 I'm really concerned about people who are trying to get into DOD's networks to steal the information or conduct attacks that disrupt what we're doing. 16:00.000 --> 16:07.400 We have people out there today from Afghanistan to Iraq to Darfur to whatever whose people's lives are on the line. 16:07.400 --> 16:09.020 They depend on these networks. 16:09.020 --> 16:11.880 And it's not just a casual thing for them. 16:11.880 --> 16:16.540 So what I'd ask is a little less noise in the system. 16:16.600 --> 16:26.820 The intrusions, the probing, the whatever, basically moves our resources away from things that really need to be addressed. 16:26.820 --> 16:35.200 And there clearly are people out there who are trying to do us harm and harm to the kind of values I think that most of us share about the value of information being shared. 16:35.200 --> 16:41.220 So I'd ask for your cooperation and I look forward very much to working with you and getting your ideas. 16:41.220 --> 16:42.080 Thank you very much. 16:42.360 --> 16:43.340 Thanks. 16:47.650 --> 16:49.010 Bob? 16:50.890 --> 16:53.790 I promise not to give a speech. 16:56.170 --> 16:57.510 I'm sorry. 16:57.510 --> 16:59.970 My whole speech is no comment. 17:01.870 --> 17:06.890 I will very likely, before the end of this, break that promise. 17:06.990 --> 17:10.210 But there's something substantive I want to say. 17:10.210 --> 17:14.850 The smartest and brightest of you, we need you guys. 17:15.650 --> 17:16.710 Two things. 17:16.710 --> 17:27.890 One is, if you're reasonably good, do consider seriously coming to the government, including my organization that also badly needs the brightest and best. 17:28.090 --> 17:33.970 There is one side issue, though, that you need to take care of. 17:33.970 --> 17:41.990 We would like to hire the best of you, and we will if you can apply and do apply. 17:42.110 --> 17:44.390 But there's a line. 17:44.510 --> 17:46.510 Don't cross the line. 17:46.790 --> 17:48.910 Others will say that to you also. 17:48.930 --> 17:50.890 Hey, it's okay to smoke pot. 17:50.890 --> 17:51.510 Oh, I'm sorry. 17:51.510 --> 17:52.770 I shouldn't have said that. 17:59.260 --> 18:00.920 Okay, thank you, Bob. 18:03.800 --> 18:05.680 But don't get caught. 18:07.340 --> 18:09.580 Otherwise, no comment. 18:10.500 --> 18:12.300 And don't inhale. 18:13.600 --> 18:14.160 Just 18:18.740 --> 18:20.880 a little bit of a bio on myself here. 18:20.880 --> 18:26.000 I'm in charge of the network and information operations team in Ottawa. 18:26.000 --> 18:30.600 And basically, our team is composed of civilian members and regular members. 18:30.600 --> 18:35.040 And we are also looking for some talent to come to the RCMP. 18:35.100 --> 18:42.100 And it's an honor being in front of some of the brightest guys and people, young ladies and men in the tent here today. 18:42.240 --> 18:44.100 We investigate... 18:44.100 --> 18:46.180 He's talking about the panel. 18:48.410 --> 18:49.640 You too, Jim. 18:52.820 --> 19:01.500 We investigate unauthorized use of computers, mishifted data, anything related to computer crime incidents. 19:01.500 --> 19:07.680 And also, the tech crime branch is the contact for any international agency. 19:07.680 --> 19:19.460 We're 24-7, and so if anybody has any incident regarding computer-related incidents, they call us and we'll disseminate to the right agency within Canada. 19:20.600 --> 19:21.280 Thanks, Greg. 19:21.280 --> 19:22.100 Mike? 19:28.710 --> 19:31.630 I've got to bring my fan club all the time. 19:33.050 --> 19:37.110 After three years in the private sector, a couple of observations. 19:38.030 --> 19:42.350 My career at NSA, I worked predominantly with the Department of Defense. 19:43.250 --> 19:49.190 And now in the private sector, most of my clients are in the civil governmental side of the government. 19:49.910 --> 19:57.450 The conditions there are perhaps what the Department of Defense experienced 25 years ago. 19:57.590 --> 19:59.510 But they are improving. 19:59.870 --> 20:02.110 So too is the product space. 20:02.110 --> 20:07.530 Most of the failures that we're seeing today is in the human domain. 20:08.550 --> 20:10.370 Stupidity in many cases. 20:11.330 --> 20:16.550 Your skills and the activity that you're engaged in help us learn every day. 20:17.190 --> 20:19.670 But as Bob said, don't cross the line. 20:19.670 --> 20:20.850 We do need you. 20:20.910 --> 20:24.630 Both in the government, and we need you in the private sector. 20:24.970 --> 20:26.670 There's an awful lot to be done. 20:26.670 --> 20:38.070 Our near total dependency on the network today as a nation requires us to do the very best that we can in terms of improving the security and the integrity of those networks. 20:38.570 --> 20:46.350 Now last year when I was here, I had the opportunity to auction off to a single purchaser an NSA t-shirt. 20:46.930 --> 20:53.590 And that purchaser, BIT, gave me $60 for an NSA t-shirt that I didn't pay anything for. 20:54.170 --> 20:55.950 That all went to charity, of course. 20:55.950 --> 20:59.730 Now this year I have two NSA t-shirts. 21:00.310 --> 21:02.930 Is the guy here who bought it for $60 last year? 21:02.930 --> 21:04.190 Because these are different. 21:08.530 --> 21:17.270 Now on the other hand, I'm willing to trade both of these t-shirts, one each, for a legitimate resume of someone I can hire. 21:18.350 --> 21:19.410 Thank you. 21:25.930 --> 21:26.970 David. 21:27.210 --> 21:28.090 Thank you. 21:28.090 --> 21:29.930 Dave Thomas with the FBI. 21:30.210 --> 21:32.810 On behalf of the FBI, I appreciate you coming. 21:33.050 --> 21:38.270 Being from the great state of Tennessee, this somewhat reminds me of an old-time tent revival. 21:39.710 --> 21:48.990 If any of you feel the power coming over you, I just want you to know that we're authorized to take confession 24 hours a day. 21:50.210 --> 21:51.650 Please see me. 21:55.130 --> 21:59.710 I'm living proof that the FBI doesn't always hire the best and the brightest. 22:00.570 --> 22:03.850 For all of you, the rest of you out there, there is a chance. 22:03.850 --> 22:04.630 Stay with it. 22:08.790 --> 22:09.670 Keith. 22:10.370 --> 22:12.270 Hello, my name is Keith Rhodes. 22:12.270 --> 22:13.670 I'm with the GAO. 22:13.670 --> 22:15.110 Speak up, we can't hear you. 22:15.110 --> 22:16.070 Okay. 22:17.790 --> 22:25.870 What I would like to say is that five years ago, when I sat on this panel, I said the following statement. 22:25.870 --> 22:27.410 We always get in. 22:27.610 --> 22:30.550 Five years hence, we always get in. 22:30.810 --> 22:32.510 Is that short enough for you, Jim? 22:33.050 --> 22:43.110 If you would like to come to the legislative branch and test the security in the executive branch, give me a resume. 22:46.810 --> 22:47.690 O.V. 22:48.930 --> 22:49.830 I'm O.V. 22:49.830 --> 22:51.950 Carroll with the Postal Inspector General's Office. 22:51.950 --> 23:06.330 We respond to the incidents involving the 35,000 postal networks, as well as all the computer crime, computer forensics for criminal investigations, investigated by the Postal Inspector General's Office. 23:06.330 --> 23:13.170 We have an announcement out on usajobs.opm.gov for Dallas, Denver, L.A., and Washington, D.C. 23:13.170 --> 23:14.170 right now. 23:14.170 --> 23:15.190 Don. 23:21.380 --> 23:23.500 A little too quick, I wasn't quite ready there. 23:25.060 --> 23:32.560 I know a lot of people here have been at a number of these sessions before, but the FTC is new to meet the feds. 23:32.840 --> 23:36.960 So I wanted to talk a little bit about what we do and what our involvement is. 23:36.960 --> 23:37.600 Closer? 23:37.620 --> 23:38.240 Okay. 23:40.420 --> 23:49.620 I've known about DEF CON for years, really appreciate the opportunity to come because I've wanted to and now since I'm on the panel I can get the agency to pay for it. 23:50.980 --> 23:56.440 We're an independent agency and we're a civil law enforcement agency only. 23:57.640 --> 24:03.500 We've been in internet and online activity law enforcement for, I think our first case was 1994. 24:04.220 --> 24:15.700 And because of the wording of our mandate, which is one of the broadest in the federal sector, we can dabble in just about anything we think might affect consumers. 24:16.140 --> 24:23.680 So in the internet world we have dealt with good old scams, you know, the things that used to be in the back of the magazines but are now on websites. 24:25.300 --> 24:36.260 We have dealt with mouse trapping, page jacking, a lot of technical things that really, or techniques new to the internet, couldn't have been done before. 24:38.860 --> 24:57.440 One of our biggest areas right now, best known program I think of my division, I'm not mad, the division that my group's in is the Do Not Call List, which is probably, I think it's the thing we're best known for these days, but the other thing that we have going is our spam law enforcement. 24:57.440 --> 25:03.060 We were one of the earliest, we have the spam database, spam at uce.gov. 25:06.660 --> 25:12.320 Forward your messages to that address, they're indexed within an hour and there for us. 25:12.320 --> 25:17.360 And now other law enforcement agencies to use to find raw evidence in spam investigations. 25:19.320 --> 25:23.480 We, on the law enforcement side, we come at this from a little bit different angle. 25:23.480 --> 25:24.360 We are civil. 25:24.500 --> 25:26.980 I can't threaten anybody with jail. 25:27.460 --> 25:34.640 But on the other hand, my burden of proof is a lot lower than in the criminal side, and I don't have to prove intent. 25:35.080 --> 25:39.740 So very often we can make the cases that the crims can't, and frequently we work with them. 25:41.300 --> 25:46.060 If we decide it's crossed the line, we'll hand it over, that's happened in some phishing matters. 25:46.060 --> 25:49.440 We brought phishing, but some of them are beyond what we should be doing. 25:51.240 --> 25:53.940 The other thing is we do security cases. 25:54.220 --> 26:00.800 We have kind of marked ourselves out as big in the whole area of consumer privacy, consumer security. 26:00.860 --> 26:08.360 But the difference with us is, when we brought a security case, we have not gone against the people doing the breaches. 26:08.880 --> 26:12.920 Our defendants have been the companies who have allowed themselves to be breached. 26:12.920 --> 26:19.540 With idiotically, maybe that's a bad word, with weak security systems. 26:19.540 --> 26:28.380 On, for example, online ordering systems, or a wireless point of sale system. 26:28.380 --> 26:30.740 That case just hit about six weeks ago. 26:30.940 --> 26:41.040 So our view is more toward the consumer, and as a result, what the consumer has heard is more by the companies that are breached, rather than the folks who do that work. 26:43.240 --> 26:47.800 We've got some ideas for some other things, but at least that's the types of cases we've brought so far. 26:47.880 --> 26:49.640 Thanks, Don. 26:52.420 --> 26:53.300 Andy. 26:54.540 --> 26:56.240 Hi, my name is Andrew Freed. 26:56.240 --> 26:57.520 I'm with the Treasury Department. 26:57.520 --> 26:58.960 I've been there 17 years. 26:59.100 --> 27:03.820 For those of you who were not caught because my software didn't work, you can thank me later. 27:04.860 --> 27:10.920 When Jim Christie and I first got involved in computer security, there was no internet publicly available. 27:10.920 --> 27:18.360 It's been very interesting seeing how a lot of people have come up through the ranks and put together programs that were just amazing. 27:18.360 --> 27:19.460 Can't hear you. 27:21.940 --> 27:24.120 I like to mess with the sound guys. 27:25.060 --> 27:32.060 Basically, we want to say to all of you that if you're interested in law enforcement and you have a computer background, it's a really good lifestyle. 27:32.060 --> 27:33.200 It's a lot of fun. 27:33.360 --> 27:39.120 Sometimes people don't like you showing up at their doorstep, but for the most part, it's very challenging and rewarding. 27:39.120 --> 27:47.760 I would once again invite all of you that are interested in law enforcement to pursue it, try to stay as clean as you can, and see us after the show. 27:49.100 --> 27:50.160 Thanks, guys. 27:55.600 --> 27:58.920 What I wanted to say before we just... we're going to open it up to questions in a second. 27:58.920 --> 28:01.620 I need you to speak up because I've got the fans going. 28:01.980 --> 28:03.480 It's hard to hear up here. 28:04.340 --> 28:06.140 This is mainly for the media. 28:06.140 --> 28:17.120 After every DEF CON Meet the Fed panel, there are headlines that we all have to go back and answer for that says, we're here recruiting hackers, which means to our bosses, criminals. 28:17.120 --> 28:18.800 That's not why we're here. 28:18.820 --> 28:24.300 Like everybody here on the panel said, we're looking for the folks who haven't crossed that line yet. 28:24.460 --> 28:35.340 If you cross the line, we want you to stop because you're adding that noise to our networks where we're trying to prevent and catch the real bad guys, the nation states, etc. 28:35.340 --> 28:40.060 But if you've crossed over that line, we're not hiring hackers. 28:40.060 --> 28:43.420 This is just for the media because you guys don't get it right very often. 28:45.660 --> 28:47.700 That was the press booing. 28:48.300 --> 28:54.420 At that point, I also have t-shirts that are for trade. 28:54.420 --> 28:55.200 Ready? 29:02.640 --> 29:07.240 At the Defense Cyber Crime Center, we do have jobs available. 29:07.240 --> 29:09.600 You don't have to be a law enforcement agent. 29:09.600 --> 29:20.400 We have forensic examiner positions and programmers and engineers to do development, research and development of digital forensic and investigative tools. 29:20.400 --> 29:23.520 So lots of opportunities for those who are interested. 29:23.520 --> 29:27.000 Okay, let's open this up to questions and be loud. 29:27.900 --> 29:42.520 How many of these agencies here are hung up on the applicant requires to have a bachelor's degree as opposed to just experience, certifications, etc.? 29:45.260 --> 29:46.380 I'll start that. 29:46.380 --> 29:51.460 At the Defense Cyber Crime Center, you have to compete. 29:51.460 --> 30:01.980 But if you have experience, you don't have to have a degree to be a forensic examiner nor an engineer to develop tools. 30:05.140 --> 30:07.460 Anybody else on the panel want to take that? 30:08.600 --> 30:11.620 I have no hang-ups, nor does the organization. 30:11.620 --> 30:12.400 Louder. 30:12.400 --> 30:15.320 I have no hang-ups as to whether or not you have a degree. 30:15.320 --> 30:26.720 As Jim said, though, within any service, whether it's the government service or a large contractor, your competitive position relative to promotion and other things does depend upon the degree sometimes. 30:27.020 --> 30:31.840 But in terms of your ability to perform the work, whether or not you have a degree, that's what I'm looking for. 30:32.160 --> 30:37.390 Any reason why you don't have women on your panel? 30:41.950 --> 30:45.670 Is there any reason why you don't have women on your panel? 30:45.670 --> 30:46.390 No. 30:46.890 --> 30:47.770 No. 30:48.490 --> 30:49.770 Next question. 30:55.840 --> 30:59.760 I'd just like to say that three of my Deputy Assistant Secretaries are women. 31:02.080 --> 31:07.600 My boss is a woman, as well as we have one of our females out in the audience right now. 31:07.600 --> 31:08.620 She just doesn't want to come up. 31:08.620 --> 31:09.780 She's very shy. 31:14.300 --> 31:22.540 Gentlemen, this is not an attack against any one of you or your individual departments. 31:22.540 --> 31:31.940 However, I would like to know why the federal government, especially some of the law enforcement agencies, are destroying this country. 31:31.940 --> 31:39.860 And to clarify this position, I would like to read two paragraphs from the July 23rd edition... 31:39.860 --> 31:41.220 Can I see your badge? 31:41.220 --> 31:42.480 Can I see your badge? 31:42.480 --> 31:44.080 Why is it in your pocket? 31:44.100 --> 31:44.940 You hiding? 31:44.940 --> 31:45.440 No, sir. 31:45.440 --> 31:45.920 Oh. 31:45.980 --> 31:46.780 Okay. 31:46.780 --> 31:48.360 Is that a press pass? 31:48.360 --> 31:48.900 No, sir. 31:48.900 --> 31:49.680 Okay. 31:51.100 --> 31:58.920 The FBI is now under the full control of the Executive Office so that our President now has his own Gestapo. 31:58.920 --> 32:01.000 Then we have the National Security Service... 32:01.000 --> 32:02.120 They forgot to tell me that. 32:02.120 --> 32:03.080 I'm sorry. 32:03.540 --> 32:09.660 ...formed without congressional approval as part of the new anti-terrorism legislation. 32:09.660 --> 32:13.240 This new group has already been dubbed the SS. 32:13.240 --> 32:14.480 It operates under the... 32:14.480 --> 32:15.080 Okay. 32:15.080 --> 32:16.480 Can we cut him off? 32:20.600 --> 32:21.720 Okay. 32:31.790 --> 32:33.510 Anybody want to take that? 32:33.510 --> 32:36.030 Let's go back to that best and brightest scenario. 32:37.170 --> 32:40.490 I think if we had those capabilities, we'd brag about it. 32:40.590 --> 32:41.730 But we don't. 32:41.730 --> 32:43.270 We don't use microwaves. 32:43.270 --> 32:45.330 We're pretty on the up and up. 32:47.250 --> 32:50.200 I'd just like to know briefly from each of the members of the panel... 32:50.690 --> 32:53.890 I'm sure you're aware of the big Cisco thing that happened this week. 32:53.890 --> 32:57.390 I'd like to hear what the various agencies have to think about that. 33:03.570 --> 33:04.410 Keith. 33:09.170 --> 33:24.130 I think that if you have a fundamental flaw starting in the operating system, that's what we are fighting against. 33:24.130 --> 33:25.770 I mean, that's why I can get in. 33:25.770 --> 33:27.410 That's why you can get in. 33:27.410 --> 33:32.870 There's a trade being made all the time. 33:32.890 --> 33:39.890 And that trade is between operational whatever and security. 33:39.950 --> 33:44.730 And I don't know anyone. 33:44.730 --> 33:50.910 And part of me revels in this idea because that means I'm going to be employed forever. 33:51.510 --> 34:01.350 But I don't know anyone who's getting any corporate organization that's building software right now to do it right. 34:02.790 --> 34:09.370 Richard Powers in the audience, and he and I spoke at a software development conference, I guess it was in 2000. 34:09.810 --> 34:17.110 And I talked about how it was the fault of the people in that room that I could do what I can do. 34:17.110 --> 34:28.290 Because if I can utilize a buffer overflow because everybody's writing to the same address space in memory, then that software is crap. 34:28.910 --> 34:30.650 And it should be fixed. 34:30.650 --> 34:40.850 But I don't know that anything has happened enough to get anybody's attention except a bunch of people sitting in a tent in Las Vegas. 34:40.850 --> 34:46.490 I mean, you know, how many years ago did you lose 80,000 credit cards? 34:46.490 --> 34:48.310 Now you got 42 million. 34:49.010 --> 34:50.470 Anybody go to jail? 34:51.130 --> 34:53.670 Anybody get shot dead in the street over that? 34:53.710 --> 34:56.110 Anybody get hung from a tree? 34:56.350 --> 34:57.050 No. 34:57.790 --> 35:01.550 So I guess I have to turn it back to you. 35:01.550 --> 35:06.310 If you're expecting, you know, I'm not a law enforcement person. 35:06.310 --> 35:12.290 I'm just a tester like you all, except the ones who are working for the folks up here on the panel. 35:12.370 --> 35:16.030 But I mean, the other folks on this panel have credentials, right? 35:16.570 --> 35:19.670 But they can't execute laws that don't exist. 35:19.670 --> 35:24.010 They can't enforce something that's not there. 35:24.170 --> 35:31.430 So if the infrastructure is broken, or as Peter Neumann says so clearly, the infrastructure stinks. 35:31.430 --> 35:36.110 And it just stinks more and more and more and more because it becomes more complicated. 35:36.230 --> 35:41.130 Then, yeah, you can say, okay, Cisco this and Microsoft that and blah, blah, blah. 35:41.130 --> 35:42.270 And you can say, well, it's fine. 35:42.270 --> 35:43.950 I run WAPEX, you know. 35:43.950 --> 35:44.490 Well, great. 35:44.490 --> 35:45.770 It's got problems too. 35:45.930 --> 35:47.530 Everything has problems. 35:47.530 --> 35:53.990 So where's the result that's coming from you folks? 35:53.990 --> 36:04.150 I mean, yeah, you're out doing your thing and, you know, you're breaking in, which is kind of trivial because if you can't break a Wi-Fi connection with two tin cans and a string, you better go home. 36:04.530 --> 36:10.190 But the point is that you're doing what you're doing, but where's the result? 36:10.790 --> 36:12.630 When does it get to the boardroom? 36:13.050 --> 36:16.250 That's my question to you and to all of you. 36:16.310 --> 36:18.670 Because we can only do what we can do. 36:20.330 --> 36:21.310 That's it. 36:25.490 --> 36:25.990 Dr. 36:25.990 --> 36:27.710 Wells, did you want to respond on that? 36:27.710 --> 36:30.170 I'd just say from defense's perspective, the U.S. 36:30.170 --> 36:34.790 Surge has issued a vulnerability alert and we're taking action in response to the vulnerability alert. 36:36.190 --> 36:37.390 Next question. 36:37.410 --> 36:38.050 Yes, sir. 36:38.050 --> 36:42.850 This is a question repeated from five years ago, I think, just following up. 36:44.270 --> 36:58.930 Hey, to each of the agencies, as a parent and a teacher, what do your agencies now offer as far as internships, scholarships, and things like that to bring people to the good side, to have them work in your professions, to train them to be in your fields? 36:59.030 --> 37:00.990 I'll take first shot at that. 37:00.990 --> 37:05.370 We have four interns at the Defense Cybercrime Institute today. 37:05.370 --> 37:10.990 I was at Black Cat talking to several institutions, working with Jack Holleran. 37:10.990 --> 37:21.530 Jack Holleran hooked us up with a local university in Baltimore where we're going to kind of mentor the students that are doing digital forensics and offer internships. 37:21.530 --> 37:33.890 And absolutely, but the problem is we had a series of their Cyber Corps, which is a scholarship for service call. 37:34.250 --> 37:35.450 Hey, how you doing? 37:35.450 --> 37:36.310 How you doing? 37:36.310 --> 37:45.770 And what we were doing is all these institutions came to meet with us and they wanted to know what they should be teaching students so we would hire them. 37:45.770 --> 37:50.390 And mine was real simple. 37:50.390 --> 37:54.070 You've got to teach them not to do drugs and break into other people's systems. 37:54.070 --> 37:58.450 If you teach that, you know, the technology, there's plenty of technologists out there. 37:58.450 --> 38:02.890 So you've got to give us folks with the right morals and the right value set. 38:03.890 --> 38:04.770 Absolutely. 38:04.910 --> 38:05.810 Anybody else? 38:06.490 --> 38:09.750 Let's follow up a bit on the Cyber Corps. 38:10.170 --> 38:13.470 The Cyber Corps... okay, now? 38:13.470 --> 38:26.050 Alright, following up a bit on the Cyber Corps, there are 52 universities in the United States today that are capable of distributing scholarships and fellowships through the Cyber Corps program. 38:26.050 --> 38:34.810 Now those 52 universities are universities that have been designated as NSA Centers of Excellence in Information Security Education. 38:34.810 --> 38:43.570 What comes with a Cyber Corps scholarship or fellowship is essentially an internship and a job within a federal agency. 38:43.570 --> 38:49.670 It's an obligation of the student when they take the Cyber Corps scholarship or fellowship. 38:49.670 --> 38:54.610 It's essentially a service-for-fee situation. 38:54.610 --> 39:00.310 There are some 450 Cyber Corps students in the system today. 39:00.530 --> 39:04.330 And there are several hundred that have already joined federal agencies. 39:04.510 --> 39:07.410 Now that program has been quite a success. 39:09.470 --> 39:18.550 On the Canadian side of it, we also have co-op students who come within the agency and we see how they perform. 39:18.550 --> 39:22.490 They're there for either up to four months or eight months or it could be a year. 39:22.570 --> 39:33.930 And we monitor their progress and eventually, later on, if they do want to come back to the government agency and if their positions are available, they may get hired. 39:34.190 --> 39:38.870 So we do have a co-op program in place within the RCMP. 39:39.650 --> 39:40.470 Dave? 39:40.470 --> 39:44.570 Yes, the FBI has an extensive program of scholarships, tuition reimbursements. 39:45.210 --> 39:48.130 Detailed information is available on the FBI website. 39:49.010 --> 39:55.910 We have tuition reimbursement and we've also brought in Cyber Corps students and we have summer intern programs. 39:57.370 --> 40:00.030 We also have summer intern programs. 40:00.570 --> 40:11.970 We've got summer intern programs, tuition reimbursement, and I appreciate the question because it reminded me to ask some folks around here about us taking advantage of the Cyber Corps program. 40:12.190 --> 40:15.590 I'm not sure I would remember to do that without it. 40:17.130 --> 40:20.430 The IRS does have summer intern programs as well. 40:21.210 --> 40:23.110 So we've come some way in five years, huh? 40:27.870 --> 40:33.090 Line up over here. 40:33.090 --> 40:46.970 Actually, this is addressing the gentleman from the GAO, about your response to the question earlier. 40:48.790 --> 41:01.570 With what Michael did and Cisco and his own company trying to sue him for what he was doing to be a responsible action, trying to let the community know that this problem was there. 41:01.570 --> 41:05.390 Even though Cisco didn't want the information released. 41:07.350 --> 41:29.690 I'd like to know what the organizations that you all represent are doing to change the laws in this country to quit holding accountable the individuals that are releasing this information trying to improve things rather than make the vendors responsible for taking appropriate actions and releasing the information. 41:35.380 --> 41:37.360 One real quick thing, ladies and gentlemen. 41:38.460 --> 41:40.140 You can't spot these guys. 41:42.200 --> 41:42.920 Sorry. 41:43.200 --> 41:47.900 Please do not approach me after the panel and go, I spotted a Fed, and then drag one of these poor gentlemen up. 41:47.900 --> 41:48.940 That's just not fair. 41:49.800 --> 41:51.660 It's kind of like sleeping with your sister, you know? 41:53.040 --> 41:54.560 You slept with his sister? 41:55.120 --> 41:56.120 Your sister? 41:58.440 --> 42:00.280 Actually, yeah, your sister was pretty good. 42:01.720 --> 42:03.100 Better that than my mother, though. 42:04.600 --> 42:06.720 And by the way, Roy, would you stand up? 42:07.580 --> 42:11.060 Contrary to popular belief to remember, this man is not a Fed. 42:13.040 --> 42:14.120 Mystery solved. 42:14.680 --> 42:15.520 Thanks, guys. 42:29.940 --> 42:31.440 I forgot I stepped on you. 42:31.440 --> 42:32.060 Thank you. 42:32.740 --> 42:34.900 Yes, I'm with the mic now, sir. 42:36.400 --> 42:38.080 We are doing the Men of DEF CON calendar. 42:38.080 --> 42:43.840 We ask the women, and the women only, please, if there is a man you would like to see on the website in terms of the Men of DEF CON. 42:43.840 --> 42:49.380 Since we've exploited you guys, women, that is, for the last, God, how many years now? 42:49.660 --> 42:54.760 A lot of the women from the Women in Hacking talk have asked if they could exploit you guys. 42:55.200 --> 42:56.300 So the answer is yes, women. 42:56.300 --> 42:58.620 You are now able to objectify the men. 42:59.660 --> 43:10.120 If you find a man that you find would be a good addition, be he a geek and fatass like I am, or incredibly in shape like the gentleman behind me, that you would... 43:10.120 --> 43:11.360 You like big butts, sir? 43:11.360 --> 43:12.140 Congratulations. 43:13.840 --> 43:15.740 I think there's a song about that for you, sir. 43:17.580 --> 43:19.420 Please have them see Q. 43:20.120 --> 43:22.540 You can find Q through the information booth. 43:22.600 --> 43:24.540 Please make sure your subject is willing. 43:24.860 --> 43:25.200 Okay? 43:25.200 --> 43:27.580 We don't want you kidding them over the head and raping them. 43:27.940 --> 43:28.400 Oh, I'm sorry. 43:28.400 --> 43:28.620 Wait a minute. 43:28.620 --> 43:29.060 I didn't see that one. 43:29.060 --> 43:29.480 Sorry. 43:32.120 --> 43:34.260 Yes, sir, just bear with me here, okay? 43:34.260 --> 43:36.720 I realize you're not getting any, but some guys are. 43:38.620 --> 43:40.040 And it's not naked. 43:40.040 --> 43:41.360 It's shirt optional. 43:41.360 --> 43:42.400 And it's nothing nasty. 43:42.400 --> 43:43.640 It's just a picture of you on the webpage. 43:43.640 --> 43:44.640 Nothing identifying. 43:44.960 --> 43:47.480 It's just for the girls to vote on who's the sexiest guy at Def Con. 43:47.480 --> 43:48.900 So, thank you. 43:55.240 --> 43:59.720 Well, since I think the question was directed to me, I'll respond to it. 44:01.480 --> 44:05.480 We report what we find to the Congress. 44:05.740 --> 44:12.520 And we report what we find to the Congress in a way of saying, this is open and this is closed. 44:13.260 --> 44:18.280 So, what's closed information, we're telling them that the general public doesn't have it. 44:18.280 --> 44:22.120 And what's open information, we're saying this is what the public does have. 44:22.120 --> 44:23.880 So we make the distinction. 44:24.000 --> 44:28.760 It's up to the lawmakers to make the law. 44:29.100 --> 44:31.240 All we can do is tell them. 44:31.700 --> 44:37.680 Just like all the law enforcement people up on this panel can do is enforce the laws that exist. 44:41.370 --> 44:42.850 Next question. 44:42.850 --> 44:47.710 I'm really glad that the HR department prepped everyone. 44:47.710 --> 44:49.310 Sorry, I did have a question. 44:49.490 --> 45:09.050 And that was that when the Department of Homeland Security talks about very big concepts that can be boiled down to three words like critical infrastructure protection, how do you conceptually protect the nation's critical infrastructure from a grassroots effort, 45:09.050 --> 45:09.510 i.e. 45:10.050 --> 45:11.170 InfraGard? 45:13.110 --> 45:15.310 By doing something like this, I mean, it's very difficult. 45:15.310 --> 45:25.490 You can protect the planes, you can make it look good on the news, but in terms of affecting terror and things like that, there are many, many easier ways to do this that we know that we just cannot protect against. 45:25.490 --> 45:33.430 But what kind of grassroots efforts are you cultivating to try to at least reduce the risk exposure? 45:40.160 --> 45:50.200 I'm not sure I understand exactly the question, but there are, and you did mention InfraGard, and I'll answer because it is an FBI program, but InfraGard is a cooperation between the FBI and industry. 45:50.200 --> 45:54.360 There's over 14,000 members, and we expect those members to come forward. 45:54.360 --> 46:01.000 We share information with them on vulnerabilities and assessments and things that you don't get in the public because they're a part of that. 46:01.000 --> 46:04.660 And I know the Secret Service, they're not here, but I'll speak for them. 46:04.660 --> 46:15.680 There are New York electronic crimes task forces, which are similar to InfraGard, so there are a lot of efforts out there between us and private industry to share information. 46:16.640 --> 46:19.760 Okay, do we have time for one last question? 46:19.940 --> 46:22.300 I'm part of the Maryland InfraGard. 46:22.300 --> 46:28.120 The big thing we've discussed is how to build better education awareness to everybody. 46:28.260 --> 46:32.380 First they have to understand the problem before we can give them solutions. 46:33.600 --> 46:36.040 I've got time for one more question here. 46:36.420 --> 46:40.960 By the way, I teach security awareness courses for dummies with Wynn Shortoff. 46:40.960 --> 46:46.760 My question is back to the Centers for Excellence that you were talking about, Mr. 46:46.760 --> 46:47.600 Jacobs. 46:47.700 --> 47:00.120 And three or four years ago I was at Syracuse University as a reporter for Computer World, and I was covering the master's program as they were undergoing the criteria exchange to become a Center for Excellence. 47:00.240 --> 47:05.300 In the master's program, and I wrote about this, there were 32 students. 47:05.300 --> 47:07.100 One of them was American. 47:07.380 --> 47:10.460 The rest of them were from the Pacific Rim and the Middle East. 47:10.960 --> 47:17.300 And I was wondering what we can do to protect our educational outreach so that it goes to the right people. 47:29.810 --> 47:40.750 To be a member of the Cyber Corps, you are looking for Americans that are clearable, for the most part, at the end of the day. 47:41.390 --> 47:48.890 To suggest that our educational system, however, should restrict its offerings only to Americans generally... 47:48.890 --> 47:52.290 Are there any academics in the room? 47:52.290 --> 47:54.990 I think you'd have a real serious problem with that. 47:57.390 --> 48:00.770 Your observation at Syracuse is no different than mine. 48:00.770 --> 48:12.490 When I used to visit NSA Centers of Excellence at some of the earlier schools, I was struck by the composition of the classes that I was addressing. 48:13.230 --> 48:17.120 Perhaps better than 60% of them were not Americans. 48:17.880 --> 48:23.440 That's just the price you pay for having a premier educational system. 48:24.060 --> 48:28.920 And the education we dispense is helping people globally. 48:33.990 --> 48:36.830 Anybody else want to take a shot at that? 48:37.730 --> 48:39.090 May I? 48:39.090 --> 48:40.650 Absolutely, Bob. 48:44.910 --> 48:47.270 Hey, too soon. 48:49.330 --> 48:51.690 We would like to hire you. 48:52.090 --> 48:54.630 Please don't cross the line. 48:59.740 --> 49:02.180 That concludes the Meet the Fed panel. 49:02.180 --> 49:03.000 Thank you, guys. 49:03.000 --> 49:03.800 Got t-shirts.