WEBVTT 00:05.600 --> 00:15.120 Told that everything will run on schedule, although at 4 o'clock in the tent, we're going to have the Hacker Foundation and Dunka Gardner Analyst. 00:16.700 --> 00:18.080 In the tent. 00:23.320 --> 00:31.780 They're going to have the Hacker Foundation in the tent with Dunka Gardner Analyst, I guess, at 4 o'clock in the tent. 00:32.440 --> 00:36.000 And this is Thomas, and he'll be cracking safes for us. 01:07.640 --> 01:08.780 Three letters? 01:21.120 --> 01:22.800 Welcome! 01:32.450 --> 01:33.730 Can you hear me? 01:33.730 --> 01:34.830 No. 01:35.630 --> 01:37.230 How's that? 01:37.550 --> 01:39.230 No. 01:40.610 --> 01:41.810 How's that? 01:41.810 --> 01:42.990 A little bit better? 01:46.230 --> 01:47.890 Not sure if the other one will reach. 01:47.890 --> 01:48.670 Let's see. 01:49.050 --> 01:50.130 Do we have an audio guy in here? 01:50.130 --> 01:50.890 Is this on? 01:53.590 --> 01:55.070 How about that? 01:55.730 --> 01:56.530 Better? 01:57.050 --> 01:58.450 Okay, just have to get up here. 01:58.450 --> 01:59.070 Alright. 02:00.930 --> 02:06.690 Well, if you guys just missed a really exciting talk about how to equalize wealth in the economy. 02:08.030 --> 02:12.930 Hey, you guys just missed a really exciting talk about how to equalize wealth in the economy. 02:12.930 --> 02:17.150 Of course, one thing they didn't cover was safe cracking. 02:18.770 --> 02:22.210 Fortunately, we're going to pick up here and get that little bit done. 02:31.240 --> 02:33.600 Today we've got a little double feature going on here. 02:33.600 --> 02:35.740 First of all, we're going to talk about a couple of techniques. 02:35.740 --> 02:38.720 One is back dialing, and that's going to be our first topic. 02:39.980 --> 02:42.160 This is the star of our show right here. 02:42.160 --> 02:44.140 That is an analog safe lock. 02:44.220 --> 02:46.880 It's not the push-button digital kind. 02:46.880 --> 02:51.800 It's very important because you can't back dial an electronic push-button lock. 02:53.520 --> 02:55.400 So what is back dialing? 02:55.660 --> 03:02.100 Well, back dialing allows you to determine the combination of a safe, an unlocked safe, just by fiddling with the dial. 03:02.100 --> 03:04.960 You say, man, what's up with that? 03:04.960 --> 03:06.440 It's already unlocked. 03:06.680 --> 03:13.100 Well, yeah, but if you know the combination, it allows you to access it at times that weren't scheduled. 03:13.100 --> 03:18.360 It also allows you to pass along that combination to people who shouldn't know it. 03:18.580 --> 03:26.860 Also, if there's like all the safes are comboed the same, even if your boss comes and opens it, well, you know the combination of all of them now, don't you? 03:27.820 --> 03:30.140 I'm sure that doesn't exist in the real world that way. 03:31.680 --> 03:39.520 Well, a little while back there was this guy named Richard Feynman, and he's a Nobel winning physicist. 03:39.520 --> 03:40.400 Sorry about that. 03:40.400 --> 03:45.040 He was stuck out in Los Alamos developing the bomb in the 1940s. 03:45.240 --> 03:56.120 And bored shitless, as people stuck out in the desert have become, he decided he would play around with the safe locks that were on the filing cabinets around there. 03:56.340 --> 03:59.620 He basically discovered a technique of back dialing. 03:59.620 --> 04:07.520 That, along with a little bit of social engineering, and he pretty much had down all the combos for all the locks at Los Alamos. 04:08.940 --> 04:13.940 Feynman did publish his little adventures here in a book called Surely You're Joking, Mr. 04:13.940 --> 04:14.640 Feynman. 04:14.700 --> 04:15.940 It's a pretty good read. 04:18.460 --> 04:24.100 Before you understand back dialing and how it works, you need to know a little bit about the inside of a safe's lock. 04:24.800 --> 04:28.600 This is kind of the abbreviated version, so I hope you can follow along. 04:29.020 --> 04:30.540 First of all, you get a dial. 04:31.080 --> 04:36.120 Attached to the dial through a shaft is something called a drive cam, and on the drive cam there's a drive pin. 04:38.700 --> 04:48.080 Besides all that stuff, there's also three or sometimes four wheels and a little metal device, kind of a tag team duo, called a lever and a fence. 04:51.970 --> 04:56.070 Just like on the drive cam, each of the wheels has a drive pin. 04:56.070 --> 04:59.170 It moves along with the wheel as it turns. 04:59.370 --> 05:09.290 On the opposite side of the wheel, they have something called a fly, and this is where the drive pin of the other wheel connects into it. 05:09.290 --> 05:17.490 So if you kind of imagine, you rotate one wheel around, when the drive pin of one wheel hits the fly on the other one, then both wheels start turning. 05:17.490 --> 05:19.250 They're locked together at that point. 05:20.870 --> 05:24.190 Notice that the wheels also have this little wacky thing on there called a gate. 05:24.190 --> 05:26.110 It's just a notch cut out of the metal. 05:27.350 --> 05:35.570 Once all of the gates on the wheels get lined up, what you're going to find is that the fence lever falls in and the lock can open. 05:35.650 --> 05:38.190 This is an unlocked safe lock, if you will. 05:38.650 --> 05:41.710 All the gates, all the little notches, are all lined up. 05:41.710 --> 05:43.910 Notice how the fence has fallen into the hole. 05:43.910 --> 05:50.310 There's even a gate on the cam, and notice that little tooth on the lever falls into that. 05:53.850 --> 06:04.670 The Feynman method backdialing is a lot like a lot of backdialing in that, in fact, all backdialing, that you have to decode the information backwards. 06:04.670 --> 06:08.730 That is, you're going to find out the last number of the combination of the safe first. 06:09.990 --> 06:18.410 Feynman relied on the fact that even if you turn the dial, until the wheel is actually moved, the lock can be turned back to its unlocked state. 06:19.530 --> 06:23.030 The vast majority of combination locks work in this way. 06:23.070 --> 06:29.190 However, some changes have been made since Feynman's time, and this is not as universal as it used to be. 06:30.050 --> 06:39.030 By incrementally trying numbers on the dial, that is, you keep turning a little bit more each time, then testing to see if the lock is still unlocked, you can determine what the last number was. 06:39.030 --> 06:43.650 Because as soon as it becomes not unlocked anymore, that's the last number. 06:45.590 --> 06:48.510 Let's go ahead and do a little demonstration here on the Feynman method. 06:51.330 --> 06:51.790 Oh, 06:56.420 --> 06:59.320 hang on a second. 06:59.320 --> 07:00.440 Sorry about that. 07:09.330 --> 07:10.490 Okay, we'll just go with this. 07:10.490 --> 07:11.850 Let me make this full screen. 07:15.300 --> 07:16.480 There we go. 07:17.020 --> 07:18.680 Let me rotate this guy around. 07:20.460 --> 07:22.200 This is a safe lock. 07:22.540 --> 07:24.440 This is actually a very serious safe lock. 07:24.440 --> 07:29.420 This is actually the very same sort of lock you would find on a lot of vaults in the country. 07:33.480 --> 07:37.860 This little guy, by comparison, is a gun safe lock. 07:37.860 --> 07:39.580 It's basically a piece of crap. 07:40.880 --> 07:42.260 This is not. 07:42.340 --> 07:43.960 You can feel the difference. 07:46.020 --> 07:47.460 Yeah, I don't. 07:47.460 --> 07:48.260 That's the problem. 07:48.260 --> 07:49.600 I'm sorry about that. 07:54.010 --> 07:56.410 Anyone have a flashlight, USB light? 07:57.850 --> 08:01.350 Willing to stand here with a lighter for the next hour and a half? 08:02.410 --> 08:04.210 Oh, there you go. 08:08.250 --> 08:10.330 Let's see if we can position this somewhere. 08:11.170 --> 08:13.250 Oh, just don't breathe very heavy. 08:13.350 --> 08:14.190 We'll be good. 08:14.190 --> 08:15.030 All right. 08:16.190 --> 08:17.630 This is a safe lock. 08:17.630 --> 08:20.470 It's in the unlocked position, or it can be. 08:22.950 --> 08:23.870 Notice we... 08:23.870 --> 08:24.470 Whoops. 08:24.470 --> 08:24.710 Hang on. 08:24.710 --> 08:25.250 Sorry. 08:25.710 --> 08:30.530 With this lock over on this side, notice how that lever moves up and down. 08:30.690 --> 08:38.750 Now you have that big handle on the safe, and you pull it, or sometimes in the old ones you wheel it around, and that pulls back those big metal pins on the door. 08:39.230 --> 08:44.930 Well, the only thing stopping them from moving is basically this little piece of metal right over there. 08:48.090 --> 08:53.850 With the Feynman method, what we're going to do is we're going to start turning this lock. 08:53.870 --> 08:55.610 Okay, turning the wheel of the lock. 08:55.870 --> 08:57.730 And notice I turn it a little bit. 08:59.030 --> 09:00.850 You see the wheels can move, right? 09:01.030 --> 09:02.610 See the wheels move back there? 09:04.670 --> 09:05.870 Let me see if I can... 09:09.050 --> 09:10.990 Can you see that back wheel move? 09:11.350 --> 09:12.090 Okay. 09:14.590 --> 09:16.970 Let me get it back into the locked position again. 09:17.570 --> 09:19.890 And I'll show you how you actually do the Feynman method. 09:19.890 --> 09:24.930 Now, I must say that this is what I perceive the Feynman method to be. 09:25.430 --> 09:30.510 In his book he very roughly described it, and so it's not actually very clear. 09:30.870 --> 09:31.390 Okay? 09:31.550 --> 09:35.290 But let me go ahead, move this forward here. 09:36.490 --> 09:39.130 Now notice I'm actually turning the wheel of this lock. 09:39.850 --> 09:42.270 I can actually move... 09:42.270 --> 09:44.330 I don't know if I can get you a good shot of this or not. 09:46.510 --> 09:48.190 There we go, that's a little bit better. 09:48.790 --> 09:52.270 I'm actually turning this wheel of this lock. 09:52.270 --> 09:59.350 But notice that that last wheel pack back there, the last piece of metal, hasn't moved. 09:59.670 --> 10:00.310 Okay? 10:00.570 --> 10:01.870 Well, gee, that's kind of weird. 10:01.870 --> 10:03.290 Well, yeah, it doesn't really move. 10:03.290 --> 10:04.390 Oh, see, now it moved. 10:04.390 --> 10:09.530 What we want to do is we want to find the right positions that make that move. 10:09.530 --> 10:10.070 Okay? 10:10.730 --> 10:12.210 So I'm going to turn it back. 10:13.070 --> 10:14.550 Turned it a little bit too far. 10:15.430 --> 10:17.930 Notice again I'm turning the wheel which turns the cam. 10:22.360 --> 10:25.360 There, and I can just, see, shuttle that guy back and forth. 10:25.360 --> 10:25.940 Okay? 10:32.950 --> 10:33.750 Okay. 10:33.990 --> 10:35.850 And what I'm going to do is the Feynman method. 10:35.850 --> 10:42.150 He would start off and he would slowly turn the dial which turns that cam back there. 10:42.150 --> 10:45.270 And he would keep doing that in incremental steps. 10:45.510 --> 10:46.030 Okay? 10:46.030 --> 10:49.210 And then he would come back and see if the safe was still unlocked. 10:49.210 --> 10:52.570 And so he'd just keep bouncing it back and back and back. 10:52.570 --> 10:55.350 What's going to happen is I keep turning here, and I'm going to turn very slowly. 10:55.350 --> 10:59.010 Pretty soon you're going to see that that back wheel starts to move. 11:01.790 --> 11:03.590 Oh, there it's moving, right? 11:03.590 --> 11:04.390 Okay. 11:04.390 --> 11:07.470 I can actually tell it moved right on about 40. 11:07.470 --> 11:13.610 And that's actually the number on the dial that's going to, that's the last digits of the safe. 11:13.610 --> 11:15.550 So let me swing back. 11:16.930 --> 11:18.570 And notice it locks back. 11:18.570 --> 11:20.450 You can actually feel that very easily when it locks. 11:20.450 --> 11:22.890 You can actually hear it too probably with this safe. 11:22.890 --> 11:24.590 It's very, very obvious. 11:25.750 --> 11:26.150 So... 11:27.390 --> 11:28.430 We lift it up. 11:28.430 --> 11:29.410 We go over. 11:29.990 --> 11:31.230 We try to drop it back. 11:31.230 --> 11:32.890 Oh, it's not going to drop back anymore. 11:32.890 --> 11:33.410 Okay? 11:33.410 --> 11:35.310 We've turned too far, basically. 11:44.810 --> 11:45.710 That's absolutely true. 11:45.710 --> 11:47.430 In fact, this assumes even worse than that. 11:47.430 --> 11:49.890 This assumes that the safe is actually unlocked. 11:50.070 --> 11:50.710 Okay? 11:51.310 --> 11:55.450 So this is not a general purpose sort of thing. 11:55.450 --> 11:56.110 Okay? 11:56.150 --> 11:57.350 So I can lift that guy up. 11:57.350 --> 11:58.370 I can turn. 12:01.910 --> 12:03.670 It's not going to lock again. 12:03.830 --> 12:08.550 Now, what you have to do is, and now that we've got that part figured out. 12:08.550 --> 12:09.890 Okay, it's around 40. 12:10.190 --> 12:13.310 I can actually start turning back the other direction. 12:14.950 --> 12:16.410 And then test. 12:16.410 --> 12:23.430 And then what I'll have to do is I'll just spin back here and actually re-lock, or re-open the safe again to determine the next number. 12:23.830 --> 12:25.810 It doesn't take long with a lot of practice. 12:25.810 --> 12:30.950 I mean, what you end up doing is you end up bouncing slightly forward, slightly back, and then test the lock. 12:30.950 --> 12:33.610 Forward a little bit more, back, test the lock. 12:34.070 --> 12:37.170 And by doing this, you can find out the first digit very easily. 12:37.170 --> 12:37.510 Okay? 12:37.510 --> 12:42.310 Because all you've got to do is turn until, when you turn back, it won't lock again. 12:42.330 --> 12:45.210 Now, Feynman did this in increments of five digits. 12:45.210 --> 12:45.850 Okay? 12:45.970 --> 12:52.870 That's because back then, the gate, how wide it was, that is the tolerance of the gate, was a lot wider than nowadays. 12:52.870 --> 12:57.310 Now you're down to probably about one on each side. 12:57.310 --> 12:59.450 So you probably have to do increments of three. 13:00.110 --> 13:03.130 So, the Feynman method is okay. 13:03.130 --> 13:06.790 But the problem with it is, is even he usually gave up after the second number. 13:06.790 --> 13:07.050 Okay? 13:07.050 --> 13:09.070 Even though it was only a three-digit combination. 13:09.070 --> 13:12.570 What he did after that was he brute-forced the final digit. 13:12.570 --> 13:13.010 Okay? 13:13.010 --> 13:15.270 Especially in his day, there's five digits, right? 13:15.270 --> 13:17.190 There's only really 20 possibilities. 13:17.190 --> 13:23.630 Even though you hear that a safe lock, a typical three-wheel safe lock, has a million combinations. 13:23.770 --> 13:25.610 It's a bunch of BS. 13:25.610 --> 13:26.090 Alright? 13:26.230 --> 13:31.250 Back in Feynman's day, there was gaps of five, and so each wheel is only 20 possibilities. 13:31.250 --> 13:31.870 Right? 13:31.870 --> 13:35.730 You multiply that times three, and that's what you're going to get, or a factor times three. 13:35.930 --> 13:38.990 So, this lock here, by the way, is a four-wheel lock. 13:39.210 --> 13:45.330 It's actually, theoretically, has 100 million combination possibilities. 13:45.650 --> 13:46.710 Which is a lot. 13:47.190 --> 13:52.150 But in reality, again, it really only has about a third of that. 13:52.190 --> 13:53.270 Or maybe two-thirds of that. 13:53.270 --> 13:54.430 Somewhere in that range. 13:55.690 --> 13:57.150 That's the Feynman method. 13:57.210 --> 14:01.850 It's not the greatest system in the world, because it takes a lot of time. 14:02.290 --> 14:07.030 But the good news is, is you can just kind of bounce back and forth on this dial and actually determine quite a bit. 14:07.190 --> 14:10.170 The way you do it is you feel when the gate falls back down. 14:10.170 --> 14:12.710 And you can actually feel that very easily, a lot of times. 14:13.410 --> 14:19.110 In fact, if you turn it, you're going to start pulling back that bolt once it's unlocked. 14:19.130 --> 14:23.470 And you can immediately feel all the super-resistance in there, you know, when you're trying to pull back that bolt. 14:23.530 --> 14:28.170 So, you can just kind of sit over here and actually determine quite a bit. 14:28.210 --> 14:33.110 When you go out to a certain distance, you just have to make sure you know, okay, I'm stopping on 30. 14:33.250 --> 14:34.650 I'm pulling back. 14:34.710 --> 14:35.590 Test it. 14:35.770 --> 14:36.570 Is it still open? 14:36.570 --> 14:37.850 Okay, we'll go to 35. 14:38.610 --> 14:41.070 Again, in this lock, you probably have to do increments of three. 14:41.070 --> 14:41.830 Okay? 14:42.170 --> 14:44.650 So, it works okay. 14:45.270 --> 14:48.970 But let's take a look at another method here. 15:02.660 --> 15:04.460 Alright, that's the Feynman method. 15:04.480 --> 15:06.460 Somehow I've lost my presentation here. 15:07.480 --> 15:09.480 So, what's a movie without a car chase? 15:09.480 --> 15:11.060 This is the NASCAR method. 15:11.060 --> 15:13.620 And for the NASCAR method, I'm going to switch into a different lock. 15:13.620 --> 15:21.800 The problem with the Feynman method, besides being kind of a pain, really, to dial back and forth so many times and get all the digits, it really takes quite a while to get that third digit. 15:21.800 --> 15:27.320 Because, you know, you have to figure out the first one, then you figure out the second one by bouncing through the digits. 15:27.320 --> 15:37.600 And then once you have those, what you have to do is you have to turn to the first one and turn to the second one for every increment you test on the third digit. 15:37.600 --> 15:38.120 Okay? 15:38.120 --> 15:40.240 Because you basically have to unlock the safe again. 15:40.240 --> 15:42.720 You're just kind of doing incrementally in reverse. 15:52.650 --> 15:56.490 What we're going to talk about now is what I call the NASCAR method. 15:56.490 --> 16:02.850 And the NASCAR method is basically named that because it's this one big long left-hand turn. 16:05.270 --> 16:10.250 Now, I hope that doesn't offend anybody, any NASCAR fan out there. 16:10.690 --> 16:18.970 You know, if it does, I would kind of concentrate on more important things that are probably, you know, like whether your still is still working and, you know, maybe dental hygiene. 16:18.970 --> 16:20.810 You know, some stuff like that. 16:21.030 --> 16:23.870 Anyway, NASCAR is a great sport, by the way. 16:23.870 --> 16:24.770 I love it. 16:26.030 --> 16:30.790 Anyway, the NASCAR method, this is the one long left-hand turn. 16:30.950 --> 16:31.390 Okay? 16:31.610 --> 16:34.150 There's not all this back and forth dialing, whatever. 16:34.270 --> 16:39.650 It's, in a lot of ways, it's a lot more stealthy because you can just literally put your hand on the dial, pull it across. 16:40.410 --> 16:42.410 But, in a way, it's a lot harder. 16:42.410 --> 16:48.090 The Feynman method was kind of like hitting you over the head with a brick as far as the feedback the lock gave you. 16:48.090 --> 16:48.710 Okay? 16:48.710 --> 16:50.350 You would pull it back. 16:50.410 --> 16:56.470 If the lock went to the unlocked state, if you turned any farther, it would try to pull the bolt back. 16:56.470 --> 16:58.690 And, I mean, it's like hitting a Mack truck. 16:58.790 --> 16:59.070 Okay? 16:59.070 --> 16:59.910 With your hand. 16:59.990 --> 17:02.750 So, you know, you have to put a lot of effort to actually get that bolt pulled back. 17:03.310 --> 17:06.490 With this method, you have to have a really fine sense of touch. 17:06.490 --> 17:08.330 And it takes a while to develop that. 17:08.330 --> 17:09.670 That's the bad news. 17:10.250 --> 17:21.730 The good news is, is that you can, a lot of times, easily determine the first and second wheel with just a few revolutions. 17:22.390 --> 17:23.790 Or, first and second digits, rather. 17:23.790 --> 17:27.570 With just a few, just one revolution or a couple revolutions, actually, of the wheel. 17:27.570 --> 17:28.470 Of the dial. 17:29.570 --> 17:41.950 This whole method is possible because when the drive pin of a wheel hits another wheel, it adds the weight of that wheel to the whole mechanism that you're turning. 17:42.050 --> 17:42.370 Okay ? 17:42.370 --> 17:48.310 So, basically, all you're trying to do is feel for the extra weight that occurs. 17:50.350 --> 17:54.190 Now, there's one little problem with all this good stuff. 18:00.550 --> 18:01.290 And that is... 18:02.670 --> 18:05.710 Let me get this guy positioned so you can see it. 18:20.970 --> 18:23.070 Yeah, this one might be a little bit hard to get... 18:23.070 --> 18:24.190 Ah, there we go. 18:24.190 --> 18:25.390 Now we've got a good angle. 18:25.590 --> 18:26.890 Let's focus pretty good on that. 18:28.110 --> 18:28.910 Okay. 18:31.290 --> 18:33.650 This lock is actually... 18:34.170 --> 18:35.830 It's in the unlocked state. 18:36.070 --> 18:36.790 Okay. 18:38.850 --> 18:42.250 What I'm going to do is, I'm going to go ahead and lock it. 18:42.430 --> 18:43.190 See, I'm going to... 18:45.670 --> 18:47.590 Notice that my fence lifts up. 18:48.230 --> 18:54.550 Now, with this lock, and with a lot of locks, if I try to go back to the unlocked state... 18:54.550 --> 18:55.490 Let's see, I wiggle the dial. 18:55.490 --> 19:01.470 Even though I don't move any of the wheel packs, if I try to go to the unlocked state again, it's not going to happen. 19:01.630 --> 19:02.090 Okay? 19:02.090 --> 19:08.010 Because they built a little mechanism in, because people like Feynman, and they said, Ah, you know, we don't want people backdialing these things. 19:08.010 --> 19:09.810 But you can still backdial this lock. 19:09.810 --> 19:11.790 This lock, by the way, is a very nice lock. 19:11.790 --> 19:13.170 It used to be state-of-the-art. 19:13.990 --> 19:17.310 Notice that the wheel packs on this one are made out of plastic. 19:17.610 --> 19:19.230 They actually have a fancy name for that. 19:19.230 --> 19:22.970 But basically, it's a plastic designed for its X-ray resistance. 19:23.150 --> 19:27.230 This lock is what they call a Group 1 lock, Group 1R. 19:27.330 --> 19:30.210 It has a manipulation resistance. 19:30.810 --> 19:33.230 For instance, to actually get it to... 19:38.300 --> 19:39.400 Sorry, here. 19:39.400 --> 19:41.540 Shouldn't watch the screen, because everything's backwards. 19:42.400 --> 19:51.640 With this lock, what you do is you actually have to turn it over to zero, and push in to try... 19:52.540 --> 19:58.560 That little click that just happened was trying to force down the lever. 19:58.740 --> 20:04.640 In a lot of safe locks, the lever is actually resting on the wheel packs. 20:04.940 --> 20:06.980 And that allows you to manipulate them. 20:06.980 --> 20:10.060 In this lock, the lever is actually above the wheel pack. 20:10.060 --> 20:17.440 Only when you go to zero and press in does it try to pop down and try to actually enter the actual gates. 20:17.440 --> 20:21.380 And so, this pretty much prevents manipulation from happening. 20:21.380 --> 20:22.860 Not totally, but almost. 20:23.140 --> 20:24.760 So this lock's a pretty good lock. 20:26.880 --> 20:32.260 The way you actually do the dance car method with this, is you just very simply start turning. 20:34.960 --> 20:37.420 And as you do, in this case actually, I've already turned it. 20:37.420 --> 20:39.100 Here, so let me kind of back up. 20:39.200 --> 20:40.180 There we go. 20:40.780 --> 20:43.700 With this lock, you're going to feel a couple of things when you first start turning. 20:43.700 --> 20:48.140 First of all, I don't know if you can see that little cam I'm wiggling down there, this little metal roller. 20:48.620 --> 20:50.560 Vaguely somewhere in this vicinity. 20:51.400 --> 20:54.920 That actually lifts the lever out. 20:55.600 --> 20:58.480 You can feel that as you turn this knob. 20:59.440 --> 21:02.180 So you have to be careful not to get fooled. 21:02.180 --> 21:08.260 What you want to do is when you feel that lever lift out, you want to kind of look down at the dial and see where that area is at. 21:08.260 --> 21:10.400 That's basically called the forbidden zone. 21:10.400 --> 21:14.540 And the last digit of the combination of safe can never be in the forbidden zone. 21:15.780 --> 21:17.820 Because otherwise it won't work properly. 21:17.820 --> 21:22.680 Because that's actually the part where basically the mechanics have to lift the lever around and do some stuff. 21:22.680 --> 21:25.900 And so you can't also have that to be the spot where it falls in at the last. 21:26.600 --> 21:29.100 So what I'm going to do is I'm going to start turning this. 21:29.100 --> 21:31.220 And again, one long left-hand turn. 21:32.920 --> 21:38.900 And as soon as it hits, and you can actually feel it, I can get extra resistance. 21:38.900 --> 21:41.800 Usually the very first wheel is very easy to detect. 21:42.120 --> 21:44.400 I just turn it until I feel the first wheel. 21:44.400 --> 21:46.220 And you just note the number. 21:46.440 --> 21:47.680 Then I'm going to keep on turning. 21:48.420 --> 21:53.900 And what is going to happen here is I'm going to drag that wheel around until it touches the next wheel. 21:53.900 --> 21:55.880 And the resistance increases. 21:56.080 --> 21:57.440 It's sitting on 50 right now. 21:57.440 --> 22:01.720 So I can tell you right now the second wheel is on 50. 22:01.720 --> 22:03.720 And let's see if we can get the third one here. 22:09.980 --> 22:11.020 Right there. 22:11.660 --> 22:12.900 Oh, 50 again. 22:12.900 --> 22:15.740 It's probably set to all 50s because I'm a lazy bastard. 22:15.740 --> 22:16.840 Anyway. 22:18.700 --> 22:19.900 No, actually, I'm sorry. 22:19.900 --> 22:21.580 That was a... 22:21.580 --> 22:23.180 That was the gap there. 22:23.180 --> 22:24.140 I shouldn't have done that. 22:24.140 --> 22:24.820 Anyway. 22:25.240 --> 22:28.260 The third wheel is particularly hard to detect. 22:28.260 --> 22:31.800 Normally you only end up with the first couple of digits. 22:31.920 --> 22:36.440 It also really depends on how well the lock is maintained. 22:36.440 --> 22:40.400 If some guy has just come out and oiled the sucker, man, you're going to be in a world of hurt. 22:40.400 --> 22:42.700 Because it's going to turn really smoothly. 22:43.060 --> 22:45.000 And that causes a lot of problems. 22:45.960 --> 22:47.820 Also with a lock... 22:47.820 --> 22:48.980 Let me switch back. 22:53.850 --> 22:55.230 Like this guy. 22:57.370 --> 22:58.290 Man, it's rough. 22:58.290 --> 22:59.250 Everything's backwards. 22:59.390 --> 23:02.270 Notice this guy, the wheel, is like way over here. 23:02.270 --> 23:04.570 And like all the lock goodies are way over there. 23:04.570 --> 23:06.510 So like, what's up with that, you know? 23:06.630 --> 23:14.090 What's up with that is one of the favorite safe cracking techniques is to actually knock off this dial. 23:14.090 --> 23:16.010 Usually with, you know, just like a big hammer. 23:16.010 --> 23:18.610 The, you know, the big fucking hammer technique. 23:18.650 --> 23:21.830 And then you take a punch. 23:21.870 --> 23:27.690 And you punch out, you know, the little drive shaft in there, basically. 23:27.710 --> 23:31.150 Now, if that drive shaft was sitting over here in this lock mechanism... 23:31.150 --> 23:32.930 I'm sorry, you can't see me where I'm tapping. 23:32.930 --> 23:34.170 And I can't see where... 23:34.170 --> 23:40.850 If the drive shaft was sitting over here, you might actually punch those wheels and just blow the hell out of the whole insides. 23:41.350 --> 23:43.870 So that may allow you to open the safe, for instance. 23:43.870 --> 23:45.450 That was actually a very popular technique. 23:45.450 --> 23:49.530 So they got a little bit smart and they said, hey, let's put the wheel over here. 23:49.950 --> 23:50.330 Okay. 23:51.570 --> 23:54.450 Actually, in this lock... 23:59.390 --> 24:01.230 You say, well, gee, you know, that's like a... 24:01.230 --> 24:03.650 You said it's like a government high security lock, you know. 24:03.650 --> 24:06.190 Why would the feds be using something so crappy as this? 24:06.390 --> 24:08.550 Well, actually they got a little bit smarter. 24:08.550 --> 24:11.990 What they found out was, okay, well, we'll let you knock the dial off. 24:11.990 --> 24:13.110 We'll let you punch it. 24:13.370 --> 24:16.830 What's going to happen is, is this is a special kind of breakaway back. 24:16.830 --> 24:21.130 And part of it is designed to actually crack and fly off. 24:21.130 --> 24:26.550 But when that happens, there's like a little internal locking mechanism that goes into effect. 24:26.550 --> 24:27.970 It's called a re-locker. 24:27.990 --> 24:31.750 And that re-locker will prevent the bolt from actually opening. 24:31.750 --> 24:40.350 In fact, you're like really royally screwed if you go into a situation where you're trying to open up somebody's safe and it's been punched and the re-locker's fired. 24:40.350 --> 24:44.770 In fact, ask any safe technician, their big fear is that the re-locker's fired. 24:45.210 --> 24:47.550 Because a lock you can work on. 24:47.550 --> 24:52.150 You can drill a hole, you can get in there with a borescope, you can see the wheel peg, you can open it up. 24:52.210 --> 24:54.110 That assumes you got a working lock, doesn't it? 24:54.210 --> 24:56.010 Okay, not if the re-locker's are fired. 24:56.010 --> 24:58.510 It's not if the lock's all shot to hell from being punched. 24:58.890 --> 25:03.450 So, they actually do have a protection against that. 25:03.630 --> 25:10.150 But, you know, banks wearing the old belts and suspenders, they like to have their dials offset. 25:10.150 --> 25:11.370 It makes it even safer. 25:11.370 --> 25:16.470 Let me stop down and take some questions. 25:16.570 --> 25:21.150 I know this is kind of hard to visualize, but yes. 25:24.610 --> 25:26.670 No, the safe has to be unlocked. 25:27.250 --> 25:28.870 It has to be unlocked as well. 25:28.970 --> 25:34.370 Again, it's kind of a limited technique, but it's basically a privileged escalation attack. 25:34.370 --> 25:38.990 It allows you to get access whenever you're not supposed to have access. 25:38.990 --> 25:44.070 Also, a very common method is something called day locking. 25:44.090 --> 25:45.890 I don't know if everyone's ever heard of that. 25:46.070 --> 25:55.170 But since the manager of the Best Buy figures that nobody knows what the hell is going on in the safe, what they do is they unlock the safe. 25:55.170 --> 26:03.810 But just like Feynman found out, they figure out, hey, you can turn the dial back a little bit, and the safe appears to be locked at that point, but it's not really. 26:03.810 --> 26:08.550 All you've got to do is just turn it back to the last digit, and it'll reopen. 26:08.550 --> 26:10.950 That's how Feynman determines the last digit. 26:11.050 --> 26:14.430 He just turns it until it won't open anymore. 26:14.630 --> 26:17.030 So in other words, let's say the last digit was 30. 26:17.030 --> 26:20.930 What you would do to day lock it is you would turn this a little bit past 30, like 35. 26:21.770 --> 26:25.010 Now, to open the safe back up, all you've got to do is dial the last digit back again. 26:25.010 --> 26:30.010 You just wheel it around and past zero to 30, and it'll pull the wheel back up, and hey, it's unlocked. 26:30.210 --> 26:31.350 It's just quick, right? 26:31.350 --> 26:32.770 So it saves you some time. 26:32.930 --> 26:35.990 But if you know it's day locked, well, it's unlocked. 26:36.430 --> 26:39.350 And if it's unlocked, you can determine the combination. 26:39.990 --> 26:44.630 So it's not a super huge exploit, but occasionally it can be very powerful. 27:02.780 --> 27:04.620 I'm sorry, I don't understand the question. 27:13.810 --> 27:14.490 That's true. 27:14.490 --> 27:17.890 As far as I know, there hasn't been a whole lot of defense. 27:17.890 --> 27:19.690 Well, there have been a defense against the back dialing. 27:19.690 --> 27:22.350 There's been a lot of defense against the Feynman method. 27:24.950 --> 27:25.750 Let me... 27:33.190 --> 27:40.470 Well, when you first start turning, what you're going to be dragging is only the cam that's directly attached to the dial. 27:40.690 --> 27:46.670 And eventually, it's going to come around, and the drive pin on there is going to hit the fly on the first wheel. 27:46.790 --> 27:48.890 Then you're going to pick up the first wheel. 27:48.890 --> 27:51.370 You should be able to detect the change and drag. 27:57.860 --> 27:58.860 I'm sorry? 27:59.860 --> 28:01.400 Okay, I'm sorry. 28:01.400 --> 28:02.860 I can't get it. 28:04.520 --> 28:11.600 The... In Feynman's... To protect against Feynman's method, what they did, by the way, was over... 28:11.600 --> 28:13.540 Let's go back to video here. 28:17.610 --> 28:24.450 This little guy right here is the actual metal shaft, or the actual metal bolt that sticks out to actually lock the safe. 28:24.530 --> 28:30.470 And you can't see it, but behind here, they actually put a small ball bearing and a spring. 28:30.470 --> 28:33.510 And there's a little dimple in the back of this guy. 28:33.570 --> 28:38.150 So what happens is, when you unlock most modern safes... 28:38.150 --> 28:54.850 I'm sorry, when you re-lock them, what happens is that the dimple pulls this shaft and the lever arm here back. 28:54.850 --> 28:56.810 It kind of pops it back a little bit. 28:56.810 --> 29:01.850 And that prevents it from falling right back into the gates if you realign the gates again. 29:02.050 --> 29:05.510 So that's what prevents the Feynman method from occurring. 29:05.510 --> 29:13.190 As far as I know, in a mechanical safe lock, there's really no defense right now against a NASCAR sort of attack. 29:13.290 --> 29:17.150 The trick is, again, it depends on how well it's been maintained. 29:17.150 --> 29:23.790 If you get an older lock that really hasn't seen a locksmith, or probably a safe technician in a long time, you're probably going to be in good shape on that. 29:23.790 --> 29:26.990 Because there's going to be quite a bit of drag, especially on the first and second digits. 29:27.070 --> 29:28.570 Pulling off that third one is hard. 29:28.570 --> 29:32.690 You've got to remember that a lot of times you've got four inches of steel between you and that wheel pack. 29:32.690 --> 29:34.530 It makes it hard. 29:34.850 --> 29:36.910 Practice helps a ton on this guy. 29:40.700 --> 29:41.660 Yeah. 29:42.280 --> 30:02.800 But we're going to switch from this guy, the manual method, to electronic safes here in just a second. 30:12.870 --> 30:16.590 Let me just give a quick overview on some of the good and bad things about this. 30:16.590 --> 30:19.130 Backdialing is quick and easy with a little bit of practice. 30:19.130 --> 30:20.790 It's really not that hard. 30:20.930 --> 30:23.610 Backdialing can be the size of just fiddling with the lock. 30:23.610 --> 30:27.790 So you can just walk up to it and do a NASCAR turn on a safe. 30:27.790 --> 30:36.810 All you've got to do is glance down whenever you feel extra drag and see if that's either the forbidden zone kicking in there or an actual wheel picking up. 30:37.790 --> 30:46.050 Backdialing works on most mechanical safe locks, including 2M, 1, 1R, especially the NASCAR method. 30:46.050 --> 30:49.610 The Feynman method will pretty much only work on older safe locks. 30:50.290 --> 30:53.170 The information gained can be used for manipulation. 30:53.230 --> 30:58.330 If you already know a couple of the digits, or one of them even, that helps a lot in manipulation. 30:58.330 --> 31:00.930 It also obviously just helps a lot in brute forcing it. 31:03.230 --> 31:04.950 Backdialing only works with safe open. 31:04.950 --> 31:09.750 Obviously that's a huge bummer, and you're saying, oh man, you know, but it actually can be powerful. 31:09.750 --> 31:15.290 Because actually knowing the combination is a lot different from merely just having access to it during the day. 31:15.290 --> 31:17.490 Feynman just had access to it during the day. 31:17.490 --> 31:24.870 He wasn't even supposed to open up all of these atomic bomb secret, you know, filing cabinets that they had around there. 31:24.870 --> 31:28.810 Instead he just walked up and he just played with the lock while he was talking with somebody. 31:28.810 --> 31:29.710 No one ever noticed. 31:29.710 --> 31:31.450 No one actually found out the Feynman method. 31:31.450 --> 31:33.290 They thought he was some mechanical guru. 31:35.530 --> 31:42.950 Sometimes also, especially with the NASCAR method, you'll end up with the safe being locked because you won't be able to determine the third wheel. 31:42.950 --> 31:48.670 In reality, that's usually not such a big deal because safes get accidentally locked all the time. 31:48.990 --> 31:51.370 You know, people bump them and stuff like that. 31:51.370 --> 31:57.430 So most of the time it's not really considered a security threat that the safe, oh gee, was unlocked and now it's locked. 31:57.430 --> 31:59.990 Well, you know, who fucked with the safe? 32:00.070 --> 32:01.230 That's about it. 32:01.290 --> 32:03.510 That's the only security threat raised. 32:04.530 --> 32:06.930 The Feynman method usually takes too long. 32:06.990 --> 32:11.370 It's a lot of jiggling back and forth to try and bounce around and find all the numbers. 32:11.370 --> 32:13.970 And you really only get one time with an open safe. 32:13.970 --> 32:18.970 Obviously, if you screw up on either method, you're going to end up with a locked safe and you can't do back dialing. 32:20.910 --> 32:23.210 How do you protect your safe from back dialing? 32:23.210 --> 32:28.870 First of all, don't leave the safe unlocked or day locked, which is just as bad. 32:29.330 --> 32:34.270 Some electromechanical locks can also automatically relock themselves after a short period of time. 32:34.270 --> 32:35.190 That's cool. 32:35.250 --> 32:38.110 Mechanical locks can also be supplemented with things like alarms. 32:38.110 --> 32:47.930 Use of time locks, that is, you can only open the safe during business hours, well, that pretty much screws the whole point of trying to figure out how to open it up later on. 32:48.410 --> 32:56.530 Additional security measures such as video surveillance, guards, perimeter alarms, all that good general security stuff is a great idea to help protect your safe. 32:58.630 --> 33:01.990 Let's talk a little bit about my friend Spike the WonderSafe. 33:02.990 --> 33:08.290 If you ever wondered why I called it that, it's because I kind of wondered why Spike has even called a safe. 33:11.290 --> 33:16.150 Spike's full name is the Sentry A5835 Fire Safe. 33:16.790 --> 33:20.290 It's one model out of a dozen that are all very similar. 33:20.930 --> 33:22.010 They're very popular. 33:22.010 --> 33:24.570 Obviously, you go around and you see tons of Sentry safes. 33:24.810 --> 33:32.130 Sentry doesn't really claim that this provides significant burglar resistance, but people just generally assume that it does. 33:32.130 --> 33:39.530 Kind of like when they wander down by that hardened shackled master padlock and think it's really a significant barrier to entry. 33:40.270 --> 33:43.210 However, you know, like I say, Spike is terribly misunderstood. 33:43.270 --> 33:44.690 He's great in a fire. 33:45.250 --> 33:52.890 I've actually had read accounts of many locksmiths that said, man, they pulled a Sentry out of a fire, you know, they opened it up, all the contents was great. 33:52.890 --> 33:54.710 I mean, they really are good in a fire. 33:55.550 --> 33:59.250 However, to keep burglars out, or just whoever, they're pretty sucky. 34:00.850 --> 34:03.050 Now, Spike doesn't look totally wimpy. 34:03.050 --> 34:05.770 He has something kind of like two-factor authentication. 34:05.930 --> 34:11.230 First of all, he's got a tubular lock, and also electronic keypad is five-digit combination. 34:11.230 --> 34:13.410 Well, that's pretty stout, you know. 34:13.410 --> 34:15.410 God, I hate to guess five digits. 34:15.590 --> 34:17.970 You know, but unfortunately, it looks kind of deceiving. 34:18.910 --> 34:27.990 Spike's security problems all began back in 2000 when this guy named Freddy, you know, there's Freddy the Wire, started spilling safe-cracking secrets on the Alt Locksmith news group. 34:27.990 --> 34:29.910 I don't know if you guys ever frequent Alt Locksmith. 34:29.910 --> 34:32.470 It's pretty much useless. 34:32.770 --> 34:42.790 That's because a lot of locksmiths hang around it, and they like to basically dump on anything that's... any information that really comes through there. 34:42.790 --> 34:44.110 They spread a lot of misinformation. 34:44.350 --> 34:47.050 There's really not a hotbed of good information. 34:47.070 --> 34:51.490 If you want a hotbed of good information, go to Lockpicking101 or groups like that. 34:52.090 --> 34:56.030 One of the secrets that Freddy tipped was something called spiking. 34:56.790 --> 35:04.370 Spiking involves passing electric current inside the safe to actually open it. 35:05.350 --> 35:13.910 An electronic safe, basically, when you type the numbers on the keypad, all it does is compare that with a little digital chip inside and say, hmm, yeah, that's the right number. 35:13.910 --> 35:19.110 And it pops electric current inside the safe, which activates a solenoid. 35:19.110 --> 35:21.550 A solenoid is basically just an electromagnet. 35:21.590 --> 35:25.610 And it pulls back the bolt, which allows you to turn the handle, which allows you to open the safe. 35:26.850 --> 35:37.270 In 2002, there was a news group, actually a website, and a guy on there, they were having a discussion about whether you should buy electronic locks for your gun safes or whatever, because they're a lot more convenient. 35:37.390 --> 35:38.610 They're a lot quicker. 35:39.310 --> 35:44.490 Dialing a regular conventional mechanical safe lock is kind of a pain in the ass sometimes, especially if you're in a hurry. 35:45.470 --> 35:50.590 But one guy on there said, you know, he works as the chaplain in a penitentiary. 35:50.870 --> 35:53.610 And the prisoners there said, oh man, don't do that. 35:53.610 --> 35:55.730 You can open up those things with a nine-volt battery. 35:56.810 --> 35:57.830 Well, you know what? 35:57.950 --> 35:59.150 They were right. 36:01.090 --> 36:10.870 So, obviously, they've known for quite a while the people who shouldn't, so it's probably a good idea for everyone else to kind of learn what to avoid in electronic safe locks. 36:11.690 --> 36:14.790 You know, again, Spike has this two-factor authentication now, right? 36:14.890 --> 36:20.130 So, you know, even if you found out the five-digit code, you still have to work on the tubular key. 36:20.130 --> 36:24.070 You know, again, unfortunately for Spike, he's kind of having this run of bad luck. 36:24.810 --> 36:28.130 Remember the kryptonite bicycle lock in the Big Pen? 36:28.270 --> 36:32.050 You know, they had that Texas grudge match and the Big Pen won. 36:32.150 --> 36:32.910 Yeah. 36:33.150 --> 36:36.150 Unfortunately, Spike's pretty much got the same thing going on. 36:50.100 --> 36:52.880 Ah, there's our instruments of destruction. 36:52.940 --> 36:55.820 That is a Flexmate Grip Pen. 36:56.140 --> 36:57.980 Flex Grip Elite, actually. 36:58.160 --> 37:00.700 Oh, and that's our little Sentry Safe Spike. 37:01.400 --> 37:07.000 Here's the most complicated part of this process, removing the ends of the cap of the pen. 37:07.180 --> 37:10.020 This took the longest, actually, of the whole thing. 37:15.020 --> 37:16.220 Oh, there we go. 37:16.780 --> 37:19.120 Notice you, this is a very difficult technique. 37:19.120 --> 37:22.860 It involves inserting the pen into the tubular lock. 37:22.860 --> 37:24.820 You have to press kind of hard. 37:25.260 --> 37:26.400 Yeah, that's, okay. 37:26.400 --> 37:27.880 Oh, there we go. 37:33.630 --> 37:40.670 I was going to do this demo live, but lugging around 30 pounds worth of safe locks was enough, and I figured the 100-pound safe could sit in the office, you know? 37:42.470 --> 37:45.650 I'm going to take it out just to prove that that wasn't a fluke. 37:45.650 --> 37:49.430 Although I am cheating here, because actually, this pen has basically been an impression. 37:49.430 --> 37:53.690 It's basically a key at this point, so, you know, it's even easier the second time around. 37:54.410 --> 37:54.910 Yeah. 37:55.070 --> 37:57.170 Notice I locked it back again, too. 37:57.170 --> 38:02.270 This, you know, works both ways, because you don't really want people to know that you've been playing around with their sentry safe. 38:04.650 --> 38:07.830 Okay, now we've got to tackle the other part of our two-factor authentication. 38:08.310 --> 38:10.950 Well, first thing we do, we've got to get rid of that keypad. 38:11.570 --> 38:15.010 Fortunately, it's made out of good industrial-grade plastic. 38:16.610 --> 38:25.270 Get rid of all those bits we don't really need, and I'm going to get to flip this around, and I do a slightly different camera shot here to kind of show you a little bit better what's going on. 38:25.690 --> 38:28.590 It's hard to see, but notice there's two plugs there. 38:28.590 --> 38:35.750 One's got a black-and-white wire on the bottom, and the other one's got a black, I'm sorry, black-and-red wire on the bottom, and the top one's got a black-and-white wire. 38:36.030 --> 38:44.250 If you look at the battery pack, it's got red and black coming out of it, and if you look very carefully, you'll notice that the black-and-white wire runs inside the safe. 38:44.550 --> 38:46.110 Oh, gee, I wonder what that's for. 38:46.110 --> 38:47.170 That's a 9-volt battery. 38:47.170 --> 38:50.730 I put tape around the end to keep the wire separated for me very conveniently. 38:53.250 --> 38:53.650 And... 38:53.650 --> 38:54.330 Bop! 39:06.520 --> 39:10.620 It took my dog Ginger three weeks to learn that trick, though, so it's not that easy. 39:10.620 --> 39:11.720 It's really not. 39:12.340 --> 39:17.840 Actually, this is the other hard part, is getting that goddamn plastic thing back on. 39:18.240 --> 39:21.380 But, you know, you don't want to leave a messy safe, you know. 39:21.380 --> 39:23.040 That's what I always say, you know. 39:23.540 --> 39:25.540 Oh, look, so we're all locked back up again. 39:25.540 --> 39:26.680 Tubular lock's in. 39:26.680 --> 39:28.000 Pop that thing out. 39:28.320 --> 39:29.660 And that's it. 39:30.180 --> 39:32.640 You know, obviously, I went in a big hurry there. 39:32.640 --> 39:34.920 That whole video is three minutes long. 39:34.920 --> 39:38.440 The actual opening of the safe part is, like, two minutes long. 39:38.620 --> 39:41.600 Obviously, if I was rushing it, you'd probably do it in about a minute. 39:41.780 --> 39:43.560 And that's to open and close it. 39:44.320 --> 39:48.800 So that's about it for Spike the Sentry WonderSafe here. 39:49.700 --> 39:51.460 Here's some tips, folks. 39:51.660 --> 39:57.240 Never assume a fire-resistant safe has any burglar resistance, okay, unless it's actually rated for them. 39:57.240 --> 40:00.340 And there are safes that are both burglar and fire-resistant. 40:01.440 --> 40:05.800 Specifically ask, when you buy an electronic safe, if it's spike-resistant. 40:06.220 --> 40:10.120 If you're buying for somebody who doesn't know what that means, you probably need to go someplace else. 40:10.640 --> 40:21.500 If, you know, the locksmith guy's jaws drop open and, you know, you realize you actually know what you're talking about, then he may actually sell you a decent safe. 40:22.440 --> 40:26.940 A lot of these safes nowadays are really crappy. 40:27.060 --> 40:30.780 And you've got to be really careful, especially on the cheap gun safes. 40:30.780 --> 40:33.680 I showed you that gun safe lock earlier and told you it was a piece of crap. 40:33.680 --> 40:34.160 It is. 40:34.160 --> 40:35.100 It's mechanical. 40:35.160 --> 40:38.720 The electronic ones are also generally pretty crappy. 40:39.060 --> 40:42.820 There is a danger, by the way, of opening a safe via spiking. 40:42.820 --> 40:44.640 I used a 9-volt battery. 40:45.020 --> 40:49.160 Quite frankly, the battery pack in that machine is, I think, only produces 6 volts. 40:49.160 --> 40:56.100 And you can actually damage the electronics on this circuit board by spiking. 40:56.100 --> 41:00.280 Sometimes they're actually made to damage the circuit board by spiking. 41:00.280 --> 41:01.920 That's their spike resistance, if you will. 41:01.920 --> 41:04.160 It also allows them to sell another safe. 41:04.740 --> 41:07.080 So that's a really great idea, I guess. 41:07.100 --> 41:09.600 Anyway, very important. 41:09.600 --> 41:11.880 Limit your access to fire-resistant safes. 41:11.880 --> 41:15.880 They're generally just not that great as far as actually protecting your valuables. 41:15.880 --> 41:20.780 Also, too, if you come up against a conventional safe cracker, he's going to break out something called a drill. 41:20.880 --> 41:25.700 And he's going to drill through this white, fluffy cotton stuff that they have inside fireproof safes. 41:25.700 --> 41:28.800 And let me tell you, it doesn't slow you down nearly as much as hard plate. 41:28.940 --> 41:33.180 So it's just generally a good idea to keep an eye on your fireproof safes. 41:33.480 --> 41:35.640 Alarms, video guards, surveillance. 41:36.500 --> 41:44.240 If you don't get anything else out of this whole conference, you should realize that good security always relies on overlapping layers of security. 41:44.240 --> 41:49.340 Never depend on a single firewall or that single safe to be safe. 41:49.520 --> 41:56.360 Make sure you wrap it around with other IDSs and security guards, alarm systems, and things like that. 41:56.360 --> 41:59.320 It's the only way you can stay safe. 41:59.360 --> 42:00.560 Questions? 42:01.500 --> 42:02.500 Yes. 42:06.830 --> 42:10.550 Yeah, you can, although a lot of times they get a little bit sharper here. 42:10.550 --> 42:18.230 And if you don't get the polarity right, or sometimes you could probably even check and have some sort of pre-circuitry. 42:18.230 --> 42:20.170 And say, okay, well, I haven't typed in the digits. 42:20.170 --> 42:24.710 So I'm basically in, if any electricity comes down this pike, I'm blowing myself up mode. 42:25.130 --> 42:27.590 So there are spike-resistant safes. 42:27.590 --> 42:28.410 It's not impossible. 42:28.410 --> 42:30.730 It's just when you deal on a cheaper level, you don't normally get it. 42:30.730 --> 42:31.350 Yeah. 42:33.790 --> 42:37.090 For fire resistance, I love Sentry, actually. 42:37.290 --> 42:40.950 But, you know, they're just not burglar-resistant. 42:40.950 --> 42:44.290 And, unfortunately, to pay to get both is pretty expensive. 42:45.150 --> 42:45.770 Yeah. 42:48.530 --> 42:49.490 eBay. 42:49.490 --> 43:01.310 Everything I got here is on eBay, except the Moss Hamilton X8, which is the world's most secure lock, except for the X9, which came out in... 43:01.310 --> 43:02.010 Anyway. 43:02.250 --> 43:03.630 But the... 43:03.630 --> 43:04.370 No, it's... 43:04.370 --> 43:07.590 You'll only find this lock on high... 43:07.590 --> 43:09.190 Yeah, let me switch back here. 43:09.190 --> 43:10.390 Sorry, it takes so long. 43:12.610 --> 43:17.630 I suppose they had this all set up to automatically switch, and, of course, that failed spectacularly. 43:21.550 --> 43:23.730 This is probably going to take a while here, sorry. 43:24.910 --> 43:26.330 And I'm running out of time. 43:32.550 --> 43:33.690 Oh, there we go. 43:34.130 --> 43:34.750 OK. 43:34.870 --> 43:36.430 This is the Moss Hamilton. 43:36.510 --> 43:38.990 It looks like a mechanical safe lock. 43:38.990 --> 43:40.030 It is not. 43:40.030 --> 43:47.330 It is actually very much like one of those radios you... survival radios you get that's got the crank on the side, where you have to, like, crank it up. 43:47.370 --> 43:51.310 Basically, with the Moss Hamilton, you have to turn it until you power it up. 43:51.310 --> 43:53.190 It's actually fully electronic. 43:53.190 --> 43:57.510 With the Moss Hamilton, all of the electronics are inside the safe. 43:57.510 --> 43:59.650 They're behind that four inches of hard plate. 43:59.690 --> 44:00.070 OK. 44:00.150 --> 44:02.270 So, you can spike this devil. 44:02.270 --> 44:03.590 It's actually been done. 44:03.990 --> 44:06.030 But it's not easy. 44:06.030 --> 44:08.810 And you have to knock the dial off to get in. 44:08.930 --> 44:13.490 And the government specifications for this was, A, it needs to be secured. 44:13.490 --> 44:13.870 That's great. 44:13.870 --> 44:14.590 That's wonderful. 44:14.590 --> 44:18.230 But they wanted to make sure that no one could get in in a stealthy way. 44:18.230 --> 44:18.470 OK. 44:18.470 --> 44:23.510 You know, a lot of the stuff we talked about with back dialing and stuff and spiking, they're very stealthy. 44:23.510 --> 44:25.390 You don't know that something's happened. 44:25.490 --> 44:28.190 So, if you knock the dial off this sucker, sure, you can get into it. 44:28.190 --> 44:32.250 I mean, you know, you can, you know, take explosives to the safe and get into it. 44:32.290 --> 44:34.130 But people will know you've been there. 44:34.130 --> 44:34.390 OK. 44:34.390 --> 44:35.670 And that's all they're worried about. 44:35.670 --> 44:36.630 It's going to take time. 44:36.630 --> 44:39.190 It's going to take... and leave a big trail. 44:39.810 --> 44:43.030 So, this is one of the most secure locks in the world. 44:43.030 --> 44:44.630 They do have the new nine model. 44:44.630 --> 44:49.030 That's the only reason why I own this one is because, of course, they closed this out and I got it, you know, reasonably cheap. 44:50.190 --> 44:51.450 It is a great lock. 44:51.450 --> 44:55.330 And, boy, this would definitely, you know, work great on your front door. 44:57.730 --> 44:58.690 Anything else? 44:58.690 --> 45:01.370 Oh, I'm afraid I've got to head on out here. 45:01.370 --> 45:04.470 If anyone else has any questions, I'll be out that way. 45:04.890 --> 45:06.770 And you can look at some of this stuff. 45:06.770 --> 45:08.210 Thank you.