WEBVTT 00:06.490 --> 00:08.310 Good morning. 00:08.470 --> 00:10.070 Again, my name is Patty Walsh. 00:10.070 --> 00:17.710 I am a journalist and I have been going to DEF CON since DC10. 00:17.810 --> 00:26.210 And the topic for discussion this morning is hackers in the media, misconceptions and critical tools to combat them. 00:28.590 --> 00:30.050 Who am I? 00:30.050 --> 00:41.490 Am I a, your worst enemy, a demonic creature from the underworld, something as evil as a cross between Kim Jong-il and the Department of Homeland Security. 00:41.490 --> 00:42.810 It's quite frightening. 00:42.850 --> 00:49.030 The big, bad, atrocious media, or E, all of the above. 00:49.810 --> 00:52.470 Oh, yeah, okay. 00:52.950 --> 00:54.630 None of the above. 00:54.730 --> 01:00.510 I'm based in Vegas, born and raised here, and you can certainly choose E. 01:00.510 --> 01:07.190 However, there is a difference between the media and journalists, believe it or not, and we are going to examine this further. 01:07.190 --> 01:09.370 But kudos if you chose F. 01:09.970 --> 01:11.750 Background on the media. 01:13.690 --> 01:30.910 According to the dictionary.com site, which is so prestigious, media is a means of mass communication, such as newspapers, magazines, radio, internet or television, and or the group of journalists and others who constitute the communications industry and profession. 01:31.070 --> 01:32.410 Okay, who cares? 01:32.410 --> 01:33.630 What does that mean? 01:34.610 --> 01:43.210 So, in other words, we have a collection of all these different avenues of media, but really, what has it become? 01:43.210 --> 01:47.270 And to many, this is what it is, even those within the profession. 01:51.280 --> 02:02.900 And so, I would like to talk about background on the media, rights and privileges, theirs as well as yours. 02:02.900 --> 02:14.100 So, we're going to examine that with the role of media then versus now, kind of preview, update you on what's going on. 02:15.900 --> 02:21.180 Let's talk about some Supreme Court cases real quick, just to jot down. 02:22.200 --> 02:37.280 We got the New York Times versus Sullivan, which was 1964, and basically what that was is that the New York Times printed a one-page ad in their newspaper discussing how Dr. 02:37.280 --> 02:55.620 Martin Luther King was wrong for, or no, rather that he was right, I'm sorry, I'm nervous right now, that he was right for actually going through the civil rights and whatnot during that time. 02:55.840 --> 03:05.320 And so, they were against Alabama because of Alabama jailing him, and so they ran a one-page ad. 03:05.880 --> 03:08.820 And essentially 03:13.640 --> 03:22.760 what happened then was that Sullivan, who was one of the police guys down there, said, hey, wait a minute, how come you're running this one-page ad on us? 03:22.760 --> 03:33.260 How come you're talking about, how come you are siding with us and you are saying things to us which are libel? 03:33.800 --> 03:38.860 Libel, to brief you, is written defamation of character. 03:44.550 --> 03:48.110 Slander is oral defamation of character. 03:48.110 --> 03:49.350 What does that mean? 03:49.350 --> 03:58.690 In other words, if someone writes something about you and they misquote you, you could sue them for libel, but there are factors to that. 03:59.010 --> 04:22.210 Say, I want to know, say I interview you and we're talking about some networking issue and I misquote you to the point where it makes you look bad, where your name is on there, where people are going to read it, and where it's going to negatively affect you. 04:26.670 --> 04:32.130 What could happen is that that is something called malicious intent. 04:32.950 --> 04:37.010 Now, if I do that, I could be in a lot of trouble. 04:44.290 --> 04:45.670 You know what, guys? 04:46.690 --> 04:53.830 I'm going to stop here and you've heard about what's been going on with Cisco and everything, I'm sure, right? 04:54.810 --> 04:55.610 Vaguely? 04:57.230 --> 04:58.030 Okay. 04:58.650 --> 04:59.950 Tell you what I'm going to do. 05:00.670 --> 05:06.690 I'm going to talk about that because all this stuff can wait because I think that this is much more important. 05:06.690 --> 05:08.570 So I'm not going to waste my time with this. 05:08.650 --> 05:17.490 This is boring me, this is boring you, so let's get on that and then we'll have some candy and some water and then we'll pass out some of those books or whatever. 05:18.350 --> 05:22.370 Okay, let's talk about what happened to Black Cat. 05:22.650 --> 05:24.490 You guys want to be briefed on it, right? 05:24.770 --> 05:38.790 Okay, basically what occurred is that apparently, and I was not there, I was not in the room when it happened, just to let you know, so this is what I've heard and what I've discussed with several different sources. 05:41.150 --> 05:46.130 I guess there is this man named Michael Lynn. 05:46.310 --> 05:47.710 I'm sure you've heard about him. 05:48.010 --> 05:52.770 He is with the ISS and he was doing research for a group called Cisco. 05:53.290 --> 05:54.290 I'm sorry? 05:59.550 --> 06:00.350 Formally. 06:00.370 --> 06:01.230 Oh, see? 06:01.230 --> 06:02.070 There you go. 06:02.070 --> 06:03.730 You just caught me in the act. 06:03.850 --> 06:12.010 See, you've got to be careful with the media and you've got to clue them in because if you don't clue them in, then someone writes something about it. 06:12.010 --> 06:13.110 So you just caught me. 06:13.110 --> 06:13.710 Good for you. 06:13.710 --> 06:15.030 Always be on your toes. 06:15.170 --> 06:16.210 That was a test. 06:19.350 --> 06:24.950 Alright, so he was formally with Cisco and he was doing research. 06:32.010 --> 06:42.590 Actually, I was just briefed on this this morning, too, because I had to do a lot of work the last couple of nights. 06:43.530 --> 06:51.000 And I'm very intimidated of you guys. 06:52.420 --> 06:53.120 Yeah. 06:56.320 --> 06:58.500 Well, I'm a nerd, too, but not with computers. 07:00.700 --> 07:09.660 So, he was doing work on the routers, the reverse engineering, from what I hear. 07:09.700 --> 07:15.660 And from what I hear, he was doing work on what was sort of like a hardware box. 07:15.920 --> 07:19.680 And there were security flaws and exploits in there. 07:19.780 --> 07:32.120 And apparently, from what I heard, he was working with Cisco for six months on this particular patch that was vulnerable. 07:32.440 --> 07:46.040 From what I've read and from what my sources say is that there is like 80% of all the network traffic in the world goes through Cisco. 07:47.780 --> 08:10.840 And apparently, several different sources have said that three days before Black Hat, Lynn was going to discuss a serious exploit. 08:39.190 --> 08:42.370 What happened was that it was very sensitive information. 08:42.370 --> 08:53.250 And so, because it was sensitive information, Cisco wanted them to reprint the CD and they wanted to rip out certain pages within his speech. 08:55.590 --> 08:58.310 And so, that was a form of censorship. 08:59.930 --> 09:11.750 Apparently, Lynn said that he would comply originally and go along with this. 09:11.750 --> 09:14.770 But Cisco 09:33.230 --> 09:47.590 threatened legal action to stop the conference's organizers from allowing this researcher for a rival tech firm to discuss how he says hackers could seize control of Cisco's internet routers. 09:48.990 --> 10:05.530 Cisco instructed these workers to tear up 20 pages outlining the presentation from this conference that Lynn was going to speak at and ordered the 2,000 CDs containing the presentation to be destroyed. 10:05.730 --> 10:07.670 That's like 2,000 CDs. 10:07.670 --> 10:10.990 So, they wanted to change that and everything else. 10:12.710 --> 10:19.770 Lynn initially went ahead... he actually did go ahead with the presentation. 10:20.130 --> 10:23.230 He talked about flaws, exploits within Cisco. 10:23.290 --> 10:26.130 What that means... 10:40.260 --> 10:42.300 excuse me for a moment. 11:55.800 --> 11:58.120 Okay, I appreciate you guys staying with me. 11:58.220 --> 12:01.800 Obviously, I've just been briefed on all this this morning. 12:01.900 --> 12:04.420 There have been a lot of changes going on. 12:04.700 --> 12:09.500 I was prepared and I just found out about this Cisco thing. 12:10.300 --> 12:12.260 I do know what I'm talking about. 12:14.400 --> 12:16.880 I do know what I'm talking about, but not on this topic. 12:16.940 --> 12:20.380 So, I'm not going to pretend like I know what I'm talking about. 12:20.380 --> 12:26.380 So, what my dear sweetheart has suggested is that we just do Q&A, flat out. 12:26.380 --> 12:30.580 You ask me questions, I answer them, instead of me going through all this. 12:30.580 --> 12:37.960 And if you want to get up and leave, go for it, take some candy, do what you got to do, get some water, and we'll be fine. 12:37.960 --> 12:50.420 So, being in light of all these circumstances and because I just found out about all of this and I haven't done my research on this topic. 12:50.420 --> 12:54.480 Well, some of this I have, but about the Cisco thing, I haven't. 12:54.480 --> 12:57.620 And I'm not even going to, you know, front like I know what I'm doing. 12:57.740 --> 13:02.360 So, eat candy, do what you got to do, start asking me questions. 13:02.360 --> 13:02.900 I don't care. 13:02.900 --> 13:04.560 You can talk about whatever you want to talk about. 13:04.560 --> 13:08.420 If you have comments about the media, I will handle them and we will take it from there. 13:08.420 --> 13:11.860 I apologize if this seems unprofessional and whatnot. 13:11.860 --> 13:13.060 I certainly do. 13:13.060 --> 13:15.600 And if you're disgusted, have more candy. 13:15.600 --> 13:16.300 Okay? 13:16.620 --> 13:17.420 Alright. 13:17.700 --> 13:18.420 Yes? 13:36.820 --> 13:37.900 You know what, darling? 13:37.900 --> 13:43.300 Can I trouble you to come up to the mic so that way I can hear it and everyone else and then you can grab some candy, get some water, whatever. 13:43.560 --> 13:44.320 Okay? 13:44.900 --> 13:45.920 Thank you. 13:48.580 --> 13:51.020 So, did he release the flaws? 13:51.140 --> 13:59.740 And you as a person in the media, do you believe that he should release the flaws because if he knows about it, everybody else or the bad people would also know about it. 14:00.140 --> 14:06.780 And do you think if he did release the flaws and come out publicly and say this is out there, should he be prosecuted for doing so? 14:07.180 --> 14:07.880 Lynn? 14:08.040 --> 14:08.840 Yes? 14:09.800 --> 14:12.180 That's an excellent point and thank you for that. 14:16.340 --> 14:24.120 I cannot say whether or not I think he should be prosecuted because, again, I just found out about this, but I'll be honest with you. 14:24.120 --> 14:27.720 There are two sides, even three, four, five to every story. 14:28.080 --> 14:51.660 Now, him talking about this, just clearing it two hours, you know, just putting two hours before from what I heard and then talking about all these exploits where someone, people have told me that there was a patch already in place but that administrators weren't aware of this patch or if they were aware, 14:51.660 --> 14:55.480 they weren't told to start installing it, which is a problem. 14:55.480 --> 14:59.480 Now, what you bring up is a very valid point because that goes towards cyber terrorism. 14:59.580 --> 15:06.080 As we mentioned earlier, over 80% of the world's network trafficking and whatnot is from Cisco. 15:06.100 --> 15:26.560 And for someone to stand up here or, you know, at a Black Hat conference and discuss these exploits and discuss these terrible, like, gaping holes, that can swing both ways. 15:26.560 --> 15:28.580 It's kind of like a pendulum, okay? 15:28.580 --> 15:41.060 On the one side, one could see this guy and say, okay, Lynn is a martyr, he's a White Hat type of guy or whatever, you know, he's really doing his thing, but at the same time, we have to worry about cyber terrorism, right? 15:41.400 --> 15:59.420 Because even though he had been working on this patch for six months with Cisco, at the same time, him just discussing it flat out there and telling people and then making it a public forum, one could say that that even makes more people vulnerable. 15:59.660 --> 16:08.100 Okay, well now we know for a fact that there is this hole, that there is this problem, that there are these vulnerabilities, well, what are we going to do? 16:08.180 --> 16:11.840 Also, you've got to look at it from a legal perspective of breach of contract. 16:12.980 --> 16:31.280 I'm not aware of what contracts he signed, I'm not even going to pretend that I am, but from what I heard, he had agreed, either verbally or written, I'm not sure which one, that he would comply and not necessarily give this speech. 16:31.280 --> 16:34.880 Or if he were to give this speech, he wouldn't go into so much detail. 16:34.900 --> 16:35.960 And then what? 16:35.960 --> 16:44.360 Only moments, hours before he gives a speech, yes, he resigned, but that's also an issue of breach of contract. 16:44.680 --> 16:52.820 And Cisco is claiming that it was premature and that there were, you know, that this patch was undeveloped. 16:52.820 --> 16:59.920 So, you're looking at an issue with now, from what I hear, the FBI may be involved, may or may not be involved. 17:01.180 --> 17:11.280 This is also, like I said, I would argue that this is an issue of cyber-terrorism because of identity theft, what not, you never know what's going on. 17:11.280 --> 17:13.620 However, could he be prosecuted? 17:13.620 --> 17:15.180 That is quite possible. 17:15.520 --> 17:30.880 Because not only on a breach of contract issue, but also for exposing this, even though one could say that he is a martyr, and again, I'm not familiar with all the information, at the same time, it's a very sensitive issue. 17:30.880 --> 17:33.180 So it really depends on how you look at it. 17:33.740 --> 17:35.440 I think it's possible that they could. 17:36.780 --> 17:38.500 Does that answer your question? 17:39.760 --> 17:42.720 Okay, do you want me to elaborate on anything else? 18:23.480 --> 18:33.320 And you know what, you make a very valid point because you go to the issue of freedom of the press and what not, 14th Amendment, we can get into that all day, but no, you're absolutely right. 18:33.320 --> 18:36.020 What is the media's job in this kind of a situation? 18:36.040 --> 18:53.520 Now, I have read the front story on the Wall Street Journal and, you know, it seemed to be fair, but I don't know, but at the same time, you know, you have all this information coming out and yes, he did release this information, but it's critical information. 18:54.180 --> 18:55.880 You know, and people need to know about it. 18:55.880 --> 18:58.020 So what's the media's responsibility here? 18:58.020 --> 19:11.860 Is the media supposed to just sit on their hands and say, oh, well, okay, you have another hacker screwing around, whatever, or you have, you know, someone who is legitimately concerned for the national interest and the national security of this country, 19:11.860 --> 19:17.080 especially in this time, in this type of climate, you know, so what are we going to do about it? 19:17.160 --> 19:20.540 How far can the media go to get this information out? 19:20.740 --> 19:30.300 From what I read, I guess apparently there were 347 articles that just came out yesterday on this topic of Michael Lynn. 19:30.300 --> 19:32.860 And it goes to a stronger point. 19:34.060 --> 19:36.600 You know, what is the media's role in this? 19:37.200 --> 19:38.780 To give the facts, right? 19:38.780 --> 19:40.160 Well, what are the facts? 19:40.900 --> 19:42.700 You want to go deeper than that, don't you? 19:42.700 --> 19:44.620 You want to get to the core of the issue. 19:44.700 --> 19:51.780 Now, I could spout out a bunch of statistics to you, but what's the underlying issue at hand? 19:51.780 --> 20:03.680 The fact that we have someone that was willing to go up and talk about this despite the repercussions and, you know, here is the press's chance. 20:03.960 --> 20:14.900 AP Wire, a bunch of the wires picked it up and everything, here is their chance to report about this and say, you know what, here is a guy that stood his ground and talked about it and was not afraid to do it. 20:14.900 --> 20:27.900 Instead of just the usual, well, let me write about the hacker scene, let me write about how bad hackers are, how evil they are, let me write about how, you know, they take your credit cards and this and that and the other, that's not what it's about. 20:28.380 --> 20:38.780 And so hopefully the media will take this, what happened, this event, and they will report it accurately, which probably will never happen. 20:38.780 --> 20:44.540 But at the very least, you may get different perspectives on it, and that is the good thing. 20:44.540 --> 20:45.420 But you're right. 20:45.420 --> 20:51.400 Whether or not he does get prosecuted, which he could, is it a matter of legality or is it something deeper? 20:51.580 --> 20:53.760 And that is to be determined by the readers. 20:53.760 --> 21:00.420 But it is the media's responsibility to write about it and at least show the different side. 21:02.320 --> 21:03.860 Thank you, thank you dear. 21:03.860 --> 21:05.600 I'm sorry, sweetheart, what's your name? 21:05.780 --> 21:25.220 Yes, my name is Sasha, and my question is, you know, politicians and the public at large have a very negative view of hackers and the hacker community, and that, you know, resulting in laws such as USA Patriot, which, you know, sort of equates hacking with terrorism, 21:25.220 --> 21:26.600 cyberterrorism and whatnot. 21:26.600 --> 21:38.440 And I'm curious if you think that, you know, that negative opinion is the result more of the media and the desire for headlines and publicity, or is that more because of the hacker community itself? 21:38.440 --> 21:39.300 Thank you. 21:39.300 --> 21:40.580 Thank you. 21:41.500 --> 21:43.440 Excellent question. 21:46.900 --> 21:48.260 Here we go. 21:49.060 --> 21:53.260 The question is, does the media mold society or does it mirror it? 21:53.260 --> 21:54.840 And what does that mean to you guys? 21:54.840 --> 22:01.840 You're right, politicians are always spinning everything, media is always spinning everything, who pays whose bills, it's one big giant pain in the rear end, right? 22:01.840 --> 22:13.380 However, when the media reports on something, are they sensationalizing it because they want people to listen, or are they reporting it accurately? 22:13.380 --> 22:15.980 And most of the time they're sensationalizing it. 22:15.980 --> 22:16.640 Why? 22:16.640 --> 22:20.440 Is that the fault of the media, or is that the fault of the people? 22:21.640 --> 22:23.080 You would say both? 22:24.700 --> 22:41.840 Okay, let me ask you guys a question, this is probably the wrong type of audience to point this out, but would you be more interested in hearing about Paris Hilton and who she's marrying and what her dress is for today and how much she spent on this bag, 22:41.840 --> 22:53.060 or would you rather know about international issues, would you rather know about where your taxpayer dollars are going, or would you rather know about political implications? 22:53.060 --> 22:55.220 And that's where it comes to the forefront. 22:55.540 --> 23:12.580 Well, let me just say that you never hear in the media as far as all the good things that hackers are doing as far as raising security awareness, working with corporations, going into the middle of Africa and setting up wireless networks, going to South America, 23:12.580 --> 23:17.080 helping a human rights group, fighting dictators and what not, you never hear about that. 23:17.720 --> 23:23.860 Now you have the HOPE conference in New York, which happens once every two years I believe, but that is a big problem. 23:24.000 --> 23:32.920 And is that because the media can't sell the story if they write about the good things that the hackers are doing, or is that because hackers and other people aren't approaching them on it? 23:33.480 --> 23:38.060 So it swings both ways again, but you make a valid point. 23:38.060 --> 23:59.040 There's a lot of things going on with the Global South, third world countries, what not, and hackers have done an amazing job in China I believe, they have tried to help take down, annihilate firewalls that the Chinese government has put up to block certain information from coming back and forth, 23:59.040 --> 24:14.700 you know, they have done work in the Middle East, they have done work in Africa, and they really, and that goes back to the white hat, black hat thing that maybe you guys refer to, but I don't like, you know, it just depends upon what one's agenda is. 24:14.700 --> 24:29.980 And how are we going to educate the media and tell them, you know, hey, why are you trying to get a story just about our negative perspective and how we're these bad, dark creatures lurking in the shadows, you know, and we're exploiting everybody. 24:29.980 --> 24:31.720 That's mostly not the case. 24:31.880 --> 24:33.900 And what do you do then? 24:33.900 --> 24:36.860 It's all about, you know, how you approach them. 24:36.860 --> 24:40.780 But you've got to be careful because, like I said, they have their own agenda too. 24:41.280 --> 24:48.700 Do most of the population in the United States, are they more interested in hearing about the good things that hackers do? 24:48.700 --> 24:51.060 Or are they more interested in the bad things? 24:51.720 --> 24:53.560 Or what is good and bad? 24:54.760 --> 24:55.920 That really is. 24:55.920 --> 24:57.120 What sells? 24:57.120 --> 24:59.560 Public opinion polls, okay? 25:00.600 --> 25:02.260 How are they going to make their money? 25:02.260 --> 25:06.520 How are they going to continue to go for the economy and whatnot? 25:06.520 --> 25:08.640 You know, that is the main issue. 25:08.640 --> 25:15.040 And if there is, that's what disgusts me. 25:15.040 --> 25:18.220 That's why I'm a journalist, because I don't trust what I read. 25:18.360 --> 25:21.120 I don't trust what others report on. 25:21.440 --> 25:27.600 But, you know, it's not just the media's job to educate the masses. 25:27.600 --> 25:28.700 How are they going to do it? 25:28.740 --> 25:30.060 Somebody's got to help them. 25:30.060 --> 25:32.640 Somebody's got to sit there and say to them, hey, you know what? 25:32.720 --> 25:33.780 What the hell are you doing? 25:33.780 --> 25:35.000 This is messed up. 25:35.000 --> 25:36.660 This is what's going on. 25:37.060 --> 25:47.040 But then again, if that journalist is not willing to do the research and to talk to you about it, you probably want to stay away from them. 25:50.010 --> 25:53.170 So, that didn't answer your question, but yes? 25:53.790 --> 25:56.330 Well, a comment on what you previously said. 25:56.430 --> 26:04.850 I think one of the main problems we have is that for every one person we have that will step forward that has valid information, we have ten seen horrors that will step forward and say otherwise. 26:05.030 --> 26:07.910 There's just one little bit of a limelight that will get bad information out. 26:07.910 --> 26:09.970 There's just nothing but the purpose seen. 26:10.950 --> 26:15.070 My question is, you know, it seems like there's a really big double standard. 26:15.130 --> 26:23.550 Not only in the media, but the general consensus now of people that, you know, we can have freedom of information, you know, free speech, things like the Anarchist Cookbook. 26:24.230 --> 26:33.030 You know, these are things how to make explosives to hurt people in general, but yet if someone releases an exploit that does something just simply with software, we're viewed as complete criminals. 26:33.030 --> 26:39.190 It's still information, but we're being prosecuted for it, whereas you can go into some libraries and pick up an Anarchist Cookbook. 26:39.370 --> 26:40.970 And, you know, what's your view on that? 26:40.970 --> 26:42.510 Do you think it's going to go away anytime soon? 26:42.510 --> 26:45.710 Thank you. 26:50.260 --> 26:59.000 He brings up a good point, and that is the scene whores, and the newbies, and the script kiddies, and all that. 26:59.240 --> 27:04.700 Are they really the people in charge, or are they just basically coming in for the party? 27:06.660 --> 27:07.300 And 27:10.780 --> 27:26.900 I think that's what the problem is, because usually, I would assume, those that are so willing to talk to the media are not necessarily what they say they are. 27:27.440 --> 27:29.340 Maybe they just want the attention. 27:29.760 --> 27:40.800 And if they were really interested in talking about the important issues, why would they put their name on the front and everything like that? 27:40.820 --> 27:49.620 But he makes a very valid point, because you have this huge contradiction going on. 27:50.240 --> 27:53.820 And the question is, how are you going to deal with it? 27:54.900 --> 28:05.900 Well, number one, before you start spouting your mouth off and saying a bunch of things that you're going to regret, think before you talk, obviously. 28:06.080 --> 28:09.800 Number two, know your rights. 28:09.800 --> 28:10.920 Well, what are your rights? 28:10.920 --> 28:12.480 Do you have any at all? 28:12.500 --> 28:20.380 Anytime that someone from the media says to you, you know, well, can I interview you? 28:20.380 --> 28:21.360 Fine. 28:21.800 --> 28:29.700 If they take out a tape recorder, and they start interviewing you, and they haven't asked your permission first, beware of what you say. 28:30.320 --> 28:40.080 If you say something that is off the record, if you say something but you don't want them to know about it, say that it is off the record. 28:40.460 --> 28:42.860 Because otherwise, it may be printed. 28:43.540 --> 28:50.240 And for you to protect yourself, you've got to make sure you know what you're doing. 28:50.600 --> 28:57.120 Number three, try to do background on the person that wants to interview you. 28:57.120 --> 28:58.260 Why do they want to interview you ? 28:58.260 --> 28:59.200 What's their agenda? 28:59.200 --> 29:00.040 What's your agenda? 29:00.040 --> 29:02.460 Try to find a way to negotiate it. 29:08.340 --> 29:10.260 Uh... yeah. 29:10.400 --> 29:11.540 Hi. 29:11.860 --> 29:13.200 Thank you. 29:14.380 --> 29:24.980 Are you aware of whether Lynn's presentation at Black Hat was scheduled well in advance, or whether this was brought last minute? 29:27.830 --> 29:29.550 Actually, thank you for that question. 29:29.550 --> 29:36.550 Um, I have heard both from various different sources on all different sides. 29:36.550 --> 29:48.430 No, I've heard that it was scheduled three weeks in advance for him to do the speech, and then moments in advance that he said, no, not going to do the speech. 29:48.430 --> 29:49.730 Is that what you're talking about? 29:49.730 --> 30:21.810 Well, what it would appear to me is that if he was working on a, if he was working on a evidently fairly comprehensive patch for this, and he had scheduled, but he had scheduled a talk on dropping a, that was basically for the sole purpose of dropping a bunch of exploits well in advance, 30:21.810 --> 30:28.290 it sort of to me signifies that he never really intended to implement the patch. 30:28.290 --> 30:51.370 Whereas on the other hand, if, if this was dropped absolute last minute, it would to me mean that he tried to, but for some reason couldn't or wasn't allowed to implement the patch and felt this was his own, that this was his only recourse. 30:52.690 --> 30:53.590 Okay. 30:53.590 --> 31:09.230 I would actually be, if you come up with any more, more concrete information on this, this would be a very valuable piece of information to me and I think to a lot of other people. 31:09.230 --> 31:09.710 Okay. 31:09.710 --> 31:11.430 And I thank you for that. 31:11.430 --> 31:14.130 To be honest with you, I don't know. 31:14.950 --> 31:25.530 People have told me that he knew about this in advance and people have told me that he changed his mind at the last moment. 31:25.730 --> 31:31.910 Unfortunately, Lynn is not here right now to talk about it, but you're right. 31:31.990 --> 31:36.390 And where does the media stand on this? 31:36.790 --> 31:37.530 Okay. 31:37.930 --> 31:46.090 Say they find out about it, when it was supposed to come out, and you're right, that is a very, that is very significant. 31:47.150 --> 31:49.590 Is it their job to report about it? 31:49.590 --> 31:52.030 Or would they get in trouble if they wrote about it? 31:52.030 --> 31:53.050 You know what I'm saying? 31:53.050 --> 32:02.350 Like, okay, say someone were to do some investigative work and find out, alright, did this cat know about what was going to be happening or did he change his mind at the last moment? 32:02.350 --> 32:04.570 Say someone found out about that. 32:04.570 --> 32:08.830 Now, if they were to run with that and say it, that's information, right? 32:08.830 --> 32:09.430 Okay. 32:09.430 --> 32:12.090 And people need to know about that because that is critical. 32:12.090 --> 32:24.710 But at the same time, if they're running, you know, if they say something and it puts Lynn in jeopardy, then you've got a problem. 32:25.590 --> 32:31.730 So, I mean, it's kind of like you're dancing around, if you will. 32:31.810 --> 32:40.990 You know, you can't really say, okay, well we found out about this so we're going to run the story on it because there may be consequences to that. 32:41.570 --> 32:45.090 So, yes. 32:48.670 --> 33:10.750 Well, in my mind, I think that for someone to run either way with this, you know, it would be of the utmost importance that they be able to back up whatever statement they made, have sources to back up whatever statement they made on the subject. 33:12.470 --> 33:23.790 Because, you know, especially at this stage, the last, at least from my mind, the last thing we need is unfounded speculation. 33:24.010 --> 33:31.430 But if somebody has sources that can back them up on this, then, you know, 33:34.750 --> 33:37.010 that's central to the whole thing. 33:41.080 --> 33:52.480 Because if the rumors keep going around and around and around and nobody knows what's going on, then that creates kind of like this upheaval and then it just gets nasty, is what you're saying. 33:52.640 --> 33:53.260 Yeah. 33:53.260 --> 33:56.200 Now, I don't know whether or not they know for sure or not. 33:56.200 --> 33:59.560 But, you know, yeah, they should come out and say it. 33:59.600 --> 34:04.980 But if that puts him in danger, then that's a different story. 34:06.320 --> 34:07.720 Thank you for that. 34:08.160 --> 34:09.040 Yes. 34:10.040 --> 34:15.000 How would you suggest combating the media's misconceptions once an article... 34:27.700 --> 34:33.240 terrorist training camps, when there's a terrorist training camp in our own backyard at Hope. 34:33.560 --> 34:49.120 Now, right after that article, about three to four months after their article, the author reprinted a response because thousands of people were emailing him just angry at what he printed. 34:49.120 --> 34:58.040 And that was a good example of the hacker community going back and saying, what you printed is wrong and you should correct this. 34:58.040 --> 34:59.560 And he actually corrected it. 34:59.560 --> 35:01.820 But then there's other things that are in 35:06.640 --> 35:10.420 most of the general public read while... 35:30.990 --> 35:32.250 Thank you. 35:33.430 --> 35:38.510 Yeah, if something is messed up when it's printed, you know, say something about it. 35:38.510 --> 35:44.480 But at the same time, is it worth it? 35:45.140 --> 35:47.360 Yeah, is it worth it? 35:47.420 --> 35:52.460 Well, there's only so much that you can do, right? 35:54.000 --> 36:01.880 But the fact that you even make an attempt to say, you know, like the example that you just gave... 36:03.940 --> 36:07.800 You know, it is... I would say it is worth it. 36:07.800 --> 36:11.840 Because if you feel that you gain nothing out of it, at least you made that attempt. 36:11.840 --> 36:13.940 At least you stood your ground and said, hey, you know what? 36:13.940 --> 36:15.020 You're wrong. 36:15.240 --> 36:21.560 Because if you don't make that attempt, then how is anyone else going to know? 36:21.940 --> 36:23.460 It's just going to be out there. 36:23.460 --> 36:27.860 It's going to be information that's false and floating around and nobody will know. 36:27.860 --> 36:30.660 So that's why you should take that stand. 36:30.660 --> 36:45.020 And if nothing happens, and if they print something that's false, and there's no admission of error run, that is a form of libel, which again is written defamation of character, which means that they could be sued. 36:45.900 --> 36:47.540 So, you're right. 36:47.540 --> 36:52.380 Yeah, you could stand your ground, you could write a letter to the editor, whatever, whatever, whatever. 37:19.770 --> 37:20.550 Thank you. 37:20.550 --> 37:24.310 If the whole community is at stake, that's something that you've got to clear up, yeah. 37:24.310 --> 37:30.370 And I mean, we always hear about individual cases, but what is the overall impact? 37:30.370 --> 37:33.590 And if that's bad on the community, then you've got to do something about that. 37:33.590 --> 37:34.670 And is it worth it? 37:34.670 --> 37:35.850 Is it worth it or not? 37:35.910 --> 37:36.850 I don't know. 37:36.850 --> 37:40.090 You know, that depends on your point of view. 37:40.090 --> 37:42.290 But I would say it's really worth it, yeah. 37:42.290 --> 37:50.710 Because if they're writing something that's false and it has an impact on the entire community, then something needs to be done. 37:50.710 --> 37:52.330 It's no longer an individual case. 37:52.330 --> 37:56.570 It's no longer someone going against the media and saying, OK, well, you know what, what you wrote about me is false. 37:56.570 --> 38:03.770 They are actually committing libel on a mass level. 38:03.770 --> 38:04.490 You know what I'm saying? 38:04.490 --> 38:05.630 What do you do with that? 38:05.630 --> 38:08.030 You get together with your friends and you clear it up. 38:08.030 --> 38:09.790 And if something happens, it happens. 38:09.790 --> 38:10.610 Excuse me. 38:26.290 --> 38:27.630 One more question. 38:29.850 --> 38:30.650 Hi. 38:30.910 --> 38:37.950 I think you're doing a really great thing actually being here, you know, actually trying to get the story, trying to get the truth, what's going on. 38:37.970 --> 38:39.870 My question is a very simple one. 38:39.870 --> 38:44.270 And I assume as a journalist you always want to get the truth in every story and you would report the truth. 38:44.270 --> 38:50.290 But my question is, am I correct in assuming that you would always want to report the truth if you can? 38:50.730 --> 38:52.810 Then the question is, what is the truth? 38:53.190 --> 38:53.750 OK , well... 38:53.750 --> 38:54.650 No, but you're right. 38:54.650 --> 39:01.550 No, we try to... some people do try to say, you know, what's going on, what they see, and everything like that, and go to different sources. 39:01.550 --> 39:04.110 You're right, because you should be objective. 39:04.110 --> 39:07.990 But there's no such thing as objectivity because everybody has their own bias. 39:08.190 --> 39:19.850 And if you were asked to keep a story quiet for public safety, you know, not create hysteria, would you keep that story under wraps or would you actually report the story because the people would want to know about it? 39:19.850 --> 39:28.410 Like, hypothetically, in the last week there's been a bus bombing in Vegas, would you report that story if local and state authorities told you not to? 39:28.490 --> 39:30.330 Or would you not report it? 39:32.350 --> 39:35.970 It's a tough decision, but I'm curious what you would do, as a member of the media. 39:38.830 --> 39:40.210 Thank you for that. 39:43.610 --> 39:45.170 I would report it. 39:45.170 --> 39:51.830 If it's something that the community needs to know about, and if that's a risk that I have to take, I would do it. 39:51.970 --> 39:57.490 Would I disclose my source if they said, I want to be anonymous? 39:57.490 --> 39:58.110 No. 39:58.110 --> 40:03.310 And that's the same thing you have going on with Karl Rove and the New York Times and everything. 40:03.310 --> 40:04.550 I would report it. 40:04.550 --> 40:07.530 Now, as a journalist, though, I have to go to an editor. 40:07.970 --> 40:09.450 And that's up to the editor. 40:09.450 --> 40:11.190 That's what a lot of people don't realize. 40:11.190 --> 40:15.630 Yeah, the media is bad, this, that, and the other, but we have people that we've got to answer to also. 40:16.650 --> 40:18.910 That doesn't answer your question, I'm sorry. 40:19.110 --> 40:19.990 Thank you. 40:19.990 --> 40:21.550 Thank you, I'm sorry about all this. 40:21.550 --> 40:24.130 And if you want candy, just take the whole bag out of there. 40:35.500 --> 40:44.700 Alright, so next we have a presentation on using bioinformatic methods for network and information analysis. 40:44.700 --> 40:46.360 Meet the Fed has been...