WEBVTT 00:03.800 --> 00:05.640 Actually, we are back to DEF CON. 00:13.570 --> 00:16.050 After two years, we are back to DEF CON. 00:16.050 --> 00:19.730 And this year, we wanted to talk about something new. 00:19.730 --> 00:22.450 Actually, also two years ago, we were talking about something new. 00:24.950 --> 00:27.890 We will talk about asymmetric digital warfare. 00:28.710 --> 00:29.890 What is it? 00:29.890 --> 00:32.550 What is the point today? 00:33.430 --> 00:35.030 What will happen in the future? 00:35.030 --> 00:45.430 And we will take a very good example, which is the Department of Defense FCS program, which stands for Future Combat System. 00:46.870 --> 01:02.410 Before starting, I want to tell you that you will not get all the information you need out from this speech directly, because the speech comes together with the release of the second episode of our comics. 01:02.550 --> 01:20.030 If you go on zoneh.org website, we already published, one month ago, the first sample, actually, of Hacker Comics ever, which was quite successful, and I suggest you to go there and download it. 01:20.030 --> 01:21.290 It's for free, of course. 01:22.570 --> 01:28.830 And the second episode, it is complementary to the speech we are going to have today. 01:28.830 --> 01:47.330 If you want to understand everything what we are going to talk, and if you want to get even more deep examples, you definitely have to go, either to download the comic from our website, or we will distribute later, to all of you, a CD, which is actually, 01:47.330 --> 01:49.290 was signed originally also by us. 01:49.290 --> 01:51.970 We are the authors of the comic. 01:51.970 --> 01:57.050 And this is the PDF file containing the comic book. 01:58.370 --> 02:02.930 There will not be any questions and answers section. 02:02.930 --> 02:06.230 We don't have the time, but we will ask you a couple of questions. 02:06.230 --> 02:18.070 To those who are capable to answer, we will give a nice T-shirt, with the cover of our comic book, which is that one. 02:19.210 --> 02:21.570 Anyway, my name is Roberto Preatoni. 02:21.570 --> 02:30.230 I am the founder of zonedge.org, which is the last mirror, the defacement mirror archive. 02:30.230 --> 02:31.490 All of the others, they closed. 02:31.490 --> 02:32.610 It's a hell of a job to do it. 02:32.610 --> 02:44.010 Maybe the next year in DEF CON, I will try to explain to the people what is a mirror archive, the reason of existing of such thing, and the efforts which are behind. 02:44.250 --> 02:45.790 But not today. 02:46.230 --> 02:47.250 First of all, the credits. 02:47.250 --> 02:48.950 I have to give two credits. 02:48.950 --> 02:52.570 The first credit goes to the MIT Technology Magazine. 02:52.570 --> 02:54.890 I was on vacation the last year. 02:54.890 --> 02:58.630 I was reading a very good article on the MIT Technology Magazine. 02:58.670 --> 03:08.950 And this article brought to my attention the problem that the American army had during the Second Gulf War. 03:09.450 --> 03:11.530 We will see what kind of problems. 03:11.770 --> 03:16.850 And the second credit, I want to credit globalsecurity.org. 03:16.850 --> 03:18.670 It is a very nice website. 03:18.670 --> 03:22.790 You can get any kind of possible information about military system. 03:22.950 --> 03:27.690 You can spend years downloading material and watching stuff. 03:27.690 --> 03:30.810 Of course, most of the things are traditionally military weapons. 03:30.810 --> 03:41.810 But due to the fact that the FCS, Future Combat System, it is a known program under development, you can find also references on globalsecurity.org. 03:43.570 --> 03:52.010 Another thing I want to say before starting, it is all the material you will find here, and on the slide which you have on your CD, I guess. 03:52.070 --> 03:53.310 It's public. 03:53.330 --> 03:54.870 We didn't hack anything. 03:54.870 --> 03:56.370 So you can get it by yourself. 03:56.370 --> 04:04.410 If Johnny Lang is around, he can teach you how to use Google in the proper way to download such material and to find it. 04:04.770 --> 04:16.170 First of all, there are several good reasons to download Zone H comic beside the fact that it is necessary to understand our speech. 04:16.850 --> 04:25.350 We have the Dark Tangent, DEFCON's mastermind, himself playing as a guest star in the comic. 04:25.350 --> 04:30.010 And the second reason, you can see my ass, basically. 04:31.750 --> 04:36.450 Which, I don't want to tell you it's even better than the first reason, but up to you. 04:36.450 --> 04:39.350 Actually, I don't have it so flat, it's a little bit more rounded. 04:43.130 --> 04:58.970 My friend here is Fabio Ghioni, and he is one of the best experts in asymmetric warfare, anti-terrorism. 04:58.970 --> 05:01.890 If you read his CV, it's very long. 05:02.530 --> 05:06.170 You can get it actually from the DEFCON website. 05:06.710 --> 05:08.410 Actually, it's your turn. 05:08.410 --> 05:11.070 We will talk a little bit me, a little bit him. 05:11.990 --> 05:13.790 Now it's a little bit me. 05:14.590 --> 05:16.450 So, asymmetric warfare. 05:16.450 --> 05:22.870 I don't want to bore anybody with conventional things, but some things must be said before. 05:23.550 --> 05:27.490 And there are a lot of things which are misunderstood. 05:27.490 --> 05:33.110 For example, the definition of asymmetric warfare and the definition of unconventional. 05:33.650 --> 05:37.110 For unconventional, so you understand the rest of the speech, of course. 05:37.110 --> 05:43.330 For unconventional weapons, or unconventional means, I give you an example. 05:43.330 --> 05:44.490 You have a fork. 05:44.870 --> 05:47.770 A fork you use it to eat, of course, a steak or whatever. 05:47.770 --> 05:51.710 Then an unconventional use of this fork is to stick it in the eye of this guy over here. 05:52.150 --> 05:54.190 So, that's a thing. 05:55.050 --> 06:05.810 Then there is another thing, an image, a very good drawing that I saw in a newspaper a few years back, where there was a big marine soldier and a small, I would say, Iraqi guy. 06:05.810 --> 06:08.290 You know, these drawers on newspapers. 06:08.590 --> 06:17.490 And the small Iraqi guy said, you know, huge marine soldier with full of weapons everywhere and millions of dollars of research. 06:17.490 --> 06:22.830 And the small Iraqi guy with some sand in his hand, threw the sand in the eyes of the big soldier. 06:22.830 --> 06:25.470 And he said, ah, that's not fair, that's unconventional. 06:25.770 --> 06:27.770 So, that's unconventional. 06:27.770 --> 06:28.850 And then asymmetric. 06:28.850 --> 06:31.890 For asymmetric, there is a thing very interesting. 06:31.930 --> 06:37.410 When I was in Cuba about a year ago to see Ramiro Valdez. 06:37.410 --> 06:40.630 Ramiro Valdez is one of the heroes of the revolution in Cuba. 06:41.490 --> 06:42.970 Hero in Cuba. 06:42.970 --> 06:44.990 Not everywhere else, of course. 06:44.990 --> 06:56.510 And I remember that he said among other things, he said, ah, Americans, they invented the term asymmetric because they want to invade us and they say that we are preparing for asymmetric warfare. 06:56.510 --> 07:02.250 Actually, they are not because they don't have even lines, phone lines to get connection on the internet. 07:02.250 --> 07:04.890 But that's one thing. 07:04.970 --> 07:06.950 And what does that mean? 07:06.950 --> 07:20.210 That a country, it means that a country that doesn't have the means to combat the war, which is systemic, which is a huge expensive war, uses whatever it has unconventional means. 07:20.210 --> 07:22.310 That is one of the meanings of asymmetric. 07:22.310 --> 07:29.110 The other thing is for example, Islam and a nation, like for example the USA or another nation. 07:29.110 --> 07:32.070 So if you have France against Germany, it's symmetric. 07:32.070 --> 07:36.570 You have territory, you have people, you have whatever, a nation against another nation. 07:36.570 --> 07:39.290 If you have Islam, Islam is scattered everywhere. 07:39.290 --> 07:42.610 You can have people working in your country. 07:42.730 --> 07:45.530 You can have people everywhere. 07:45.530 --> 07:46.910 That's asymmetric. 07:46.910 --> 07:49.810 Religious matters and everything like that. 07:50.830 --> 07:51.430 So... 07:53.570 --> 07:55.950 when it is used, this is... 07:55.950 --> 07:57.830 I just basically explained it. 07:58.570 --> 08:15.770 When you are invading a country or you are combating an enemy which has means which are too big to be compared to, like for example, the United States right now is the only country which can fight a systemic war, which is a war where you have like bombs, 08:15.770 --> 08:16.790 intelligent bombs. 08:16.790 --> 08:23.290 Hit the third window on the left on the 20th floor and kill the man who is taking a pee in that moment. 08:23.290 --> 08:25.670 But don't kill the cat that is in the room. 08:25.790 --> 08:29.130 So that's intelligent bomb. 08:29.130 --> 08:32.930 Then if you kill the cat, it says, shit, it didn't work, so we didn't spend that much money. 08:33.390 --> 08:44.310 And the country where this man is and he is taking a pee and the cat was killed but he didn't have to be killed, etc, etc, they don't have the money to fight this war, so they use whatever they have. 08:44.830 --> 08:47.110 So it's called asymmetric. 08:47.110 --> 08:48.250 It's also called dirty war. 08:48.250 --> 08:49.630 It's called it in many ways. 08:54.760 --> 08:59.040 So, for example, did everybody see the Black Hawk Down movie? 08:59.680 --> 09:10.040 So whoever didn't see it, I mean that's a very famous or very important example of asymmetry in a war. 09:10.540 --> 09:11.000 Okay ? 09:11.000 --> 09:12.720 And the use of unconventional means. 09:12.720 --> 09:23.780 So you have this big Sikorsky helicopter, which is very expensive and it costs a lot of money in research and development. 09:23.880 --> 09:27.480 You have soldiers, you have weapons, you have maintenance. 09:27.820 --> 09:33.860 I mean, you would never believe how much it costs to maintain an helicopter after 100 hours of flight. 09:33.860 --> 09:37.180 It must be maintained for a lot of million dollars again. 09:37.200 --> 09:45.500 So you have all this thing and then you had a little boy with, you know, a watch and a cell phone. 09:45.500 --> 09:47.860 Actually it was a satellite phone. 09:47.880 --> 09:51.980 And he saw the helicopters coming and he called the guys on the base and he said, they are coming. 09:52.280 --> 09:57.100 And the whole thing went, you know, went like that. 09:57.100 --> 10:01.380 The Black Hawk went down and that battle was lost. 10:01.560 --> 10:13.160 So the big expense, the Delta Force and all the millions of dollars spent on satellite recognition and everything, all was spent for nothing because this little guy, which I mean, how much does it cost, this little guy? 10:13.160 --> 10:19.660 You only have to feed him something and a satellite phone, so you have to pay the phone bill and that's it. 10:19.660 --> 10:21.180 And he destroyed everything. 10:23.260 --> 10:27.760 This is, you know, I mean, everybody nowadays does the example of the Twin Towers. 10:27.760 --> 10:32.240 So you have the 19 men, 19 cutters and then you have the 11th September thing. 10:32.240 --> 10:40.260 All the intelligence expenses that have been done in the years before didn't prevent this episode like many other episodes. 10:40.260 --> 10:44.460 Of course, there are a lot of things that have been prevented, but we will never know what they are. 10:46.560 --> 10:49.160 So, why are we saying this? 10:49.160 --> 11:00.900 Because in this years, the electronic warfare, the electronic men is the best way to hit the countries which are technologically developed. 11:00.900 --> 11:04.560 So we have, for example, all the western bloc countries. 11:04.580 --> 11:13.260 These countries depend almost totally on digital systems, on telematic systems, on electronic systems. 11:13.260 --> 11:25.060 So the critical infrastructures, telecommunication infrastructures, food supply, banking systems, military systems, even for example in the United States, missiles, I think they have IP addresses. 11:25.060 --> 11:28.940 So everything depends on electronic and telematic systems. 11:29.280 --> 11:32.620 So, what do you need to do to hit such a country? 11:32.620 --> 11:36.540 You might use electronic means if you know where to hit, of course. 11:36.540 --> 11:39.300 So you need to do some research before, some intelligence. 11:39.440 --> 11:46.240 But both the intelligence and the fighting, you do it using a computer like this one. 11:46.240 --> 11:58.800 You connect to the network and if you are good to search or to find things and you are good also on exploiting them, then you might hit a critical infrastructure and create a blackout. 11:59.860 --> 12:03.660 You know that in the past years there have been several blackouts around the western countries. 12:03.660 --> 12:09.120 For example in Italy, where I come from, there was a huge blackout about two years ago where all the country went black. 12:09.120 --> 12:09.800 Totally. 12:10.820 --> 12:15.700 The government said that it was a tree, some tree that fell over some type of wire. 12:15.700 --> 12:17.860 It was a totally impossible explanation. 12:18.000 --> 12:20.040 So who will ever know what happened? 12:20.400 --> 12:21.060 Nobody. 12:21.140 --> 12:23.620 And the same thing happened also in the United States. 12:24.740 --> 12:26.120 Three years ago, I think. 12:26.120 --> 12:27.640 Or a couple of years ago too. 12:27.760 --> 12:29.200 And in other countries. 12:29.360 --> 12:30.720 So they said it was Switzerland. 12:31.040 --> 12:32.620 In Italy they said it was Switzerland. 12:32.620 --> 12:36.320 The tree fell over some kind of wire and then everything went blackout. 12:36.320 --> 12:38.040 The whole country was incredible. 12:38.040 --> 12:40.020 I was there at night. 12:40.020 --> 12:41.960 I was out tapping at night actually. 12:41.960 --> 12:44.500 I never saw this type of darkness. 12:44.540 --> 12:45.960 It was totally scary. 12:46.280 --> 12:56.540 So you can hit these critical infrastructures and the thing is that you can create more damage doing this than doing a lot of other things. 12:56.720 --> 13:01.620 So for example, the bombings that were in London last week or two weeks ago. 13:01.620 --> 13:02.400 What did they do? 13:02.400 --> 13:03.280 They killed people. 13:03.280 --> 13:04.900 Fifty people died. 13:05.360 --> 13:11.680 But after these fifty people died the country what did it suffer? 13:11.680 --> 13:13.460 Okay, there was a human life. 13:14.720 --> 13:18.120 Nobody can contest the fact that it is valuable. 13:18.120 --> 13:20.340 But nothing changed. 13:20.400 --> 13:22.820 The structures were totally there. 13:22.820 --> 13:23.980 It was psychological. 13:23.980 --> 13:25.120 It was mediatic. 13:25.120 --> 13:27.280 It was public opinion. 13:27.280 --> 13:28.400 It was all these kind of things. 13:28.400 --> 13:31.560 So that's what terrorists want to hit at that moment. 13:31.560 --> 13:35.940 But if they really wanted to create damage, they didn't have to kill those fifty people. 13:35.940 --> 13:41.540 They could just stop a nuclear power reactor or damage it somehow. 13:41.540 --> 13:45.960 You don't need to do very sophisticated things to exploit critical infrastructures. 13:45.960 --> 13:50.640 You just need to do a little thing that just creates havoc. 13:51.100 --> 13:51.780 Okay? 13:51.800 --> 13:53.260 So this is the thing. 13:53.260 --> 13:57.680 Then I will go on later and I give the microphone back to this guy. 14:01.320 --> 14:09.280 It might sound strange, but the main difference between the first and the second Gulf War was a bandwidth difference. 14:10.740 --> 14:19.700 In the next ten years the US has developed a way to distribute information, to collect information. 14:20.720 --> 14:30.420 And basically, in the second Gulf War, the US troops were enjoying forty-two times more bandwidth than in the first Gulf War. 14:30.420 --> 14:34.220 How this bandwidth was actually used? 14:35.420 --> 14:55.010 Well, the picture on the center is a typical command center, command and control center, which collects a lot of data, which could be data and voice interception or data coming from spies deployed on the territory. 14:55.010 --> 14:58.490 They are going to be fed, actually, into the system. 14:59.290 --> 15:18.770 From stealth planes, which are actually flying over the territory and watching the situation, taking pictures, spy drones, unmanned vehicles, from satellites, and also from the Blue Force Tracker, which is a very important system for the American Army. 15:18.770 --> 15:34.510 It is the system, if you see in the movie, when they are, I don't know, on the enemy territory, and they open the laptop, and the laptop is showing some red triangles on the map, which is, this is the enemy, and some blue triangles, this is us. 15:34.510 --> 15:36.870 Actually, this system is not science fiction. 15:36.870 --> 15:41.070 It is existing, and they are already using it successfully. 15:41.930 --> 15:44.390 Well, I want to tell you one thing. 15:45.050 --> 16:04.010 If you open Google Maps, or if you ever used downloading the trial version, not cracked, of course, of Keyhole, the software which was used by CNN to show you, basically, the toilet in which the guy was pissing, and beside it was the cat from the satellite. 16:04.510 --> 16:14.510 Do you have any idea how many megabytes, gigs, it's actually taking a picture taken from a satellite? 16:14.630 --> 16:16.130 Huge amount. 16:16.130 --> 16:25.830 Now, if you have a satellite which is taking picture on the territory, on the enemy territory, and you have to download to give this picture to the troops, then you need bandwidth. 16:25.910 --> 16:29.290 You can't do the 800 x 600 JPEG picture. 16:29.290 --> 16:35.230 This is good for browsing Britney Spears' website, but not to go at war. 16:35.230 --> 16:36.810 This is the reason why U.S. 16:36.810 --> 16:40.770 Army developed such a large bandwidth network. 16:41.210 --> 16:42.620 Was it working? 16:42.970 --> 16:43.910 No. 16:44.470 --> 16:45.530 When U.S. 16:45.530 --> 16:53.650 troops entered into the territory, they started to experience a lot of troubles. 16:53.970 --> 16:56.290 Now, focus your attention. 16:56.290 --> 17:01.630 Do you remember exactly the day when they started to invade Iraq? 17:01.630 --> 17:07.110 The guy was sitting, the CNN guy, was sitting on the top of a U.S. 17:07.110 --> 17:11.890 tank which was running 120 kilometers per hour. 17:11.890 --> 17:12.810 I don't know it in miles. 17:12.810 --> 17:14.530 You can do calculations by yourself. 17:15.070 --> 17:16.810 And it was 75. 17:17.210 --> 17:19.610 And it was running and running and running. 17:19.610 --> 17:23.830 And the journalist was saying, there is nobody nobody is facing us. 17:23.830 --> 17:25.610 We don't see the enemy. 17:25.610 --> 17:26.950 And that was the problem. 17:26.950 --> 17:30.570 Because they were running too fast. 17:30.630 --> 17:32.410 And they were losing connectivity. 17:32.410 --> 17:39.490 Try to hook yourself into a Wi -Fi network while you are on your car and you are driving fast. 17:39.490 --> 17:40.550 You can't. 17:41.770 --> 17:45.350 And basically the Humvees which were in front of the U.S. 17:45.350 --> 17:52.350 troops, they had to stop even for 12 hours to download the tactical data. 17:52.350 --> 17:57.510 Now, do you know the difference between strategical and tactical data? 17:57.510 --> 18:01.790 Tactical data are the data which are necessary to survive in the next 5 minutes. 18:01.970 --> 18:04.890 Because it's telling you where the enemy is. 18:05.250 --> 18:09.110 From which point you should expect to be attacked. 18:09.110 --> 18:11.250 Where should you go not to be attacked. 18:11.250 --> 18:12.690 What you should do. 18:12.770 --> 18:17.290 Because the command and control center is telling you to do this, this and that. 18:17.950 --> 18:24.770 And if you rely on connectivity for having such service, it's good as long as you have connectivity. 18:24.770 --> 18:27.170 But if you don't have any more connectivity, what is happening? 18:27.170 --> 18:31.490 You don't know where your enemy is while your enemy knows very well where you are. 18:31.490 --> 18:34.250 Because you are stopped in the middle of the desert. 18:36.970 --> 18:43.190 And how was organized the system for the second Gulf War? 18:43.190 --> 18:46.870 Basically we had two command and control centers. 18:46.870 --> 18:48.430 One was located in Qatar. 18:48.430 --> 18:50.390 The second was located in Kuwait. 18:50.390 --> 19:01.610 And all the data gathered by the probes was actually fed into a system which was producing too much of intelligence. 19:02.590 --> 19:17.370 It is like if you enable all of your IDS messaging or if you are using zone alarm and you tell to zone alarm to pop up the window each time you are receiving a strange packet. 19:17.370 --> 19:19.710 It will pop up every five seconds. 19:19.730 --> 19:21.410 And what will be the end? 19:21.410 --> 19:24.230 You will switch off the pop up thing. 19:24.230 --> 19:27.470 Too much of information equals no information. 19:28.230 --> 19:29.810 And this was a problem. 19:30.030 --> 19:34.590 The second problem was that the information was fed into a satellite system. 19:34.590 --> 20:04.750 The satellite system was downloading sending, sorry, through a traditional radio streaming to a vehicle which was located back of the US troops and from the vehicle which was actually supposed to act as a router to distribute the information the data were sent using an eye of sight microwave beam. 20:04.750 --> 20:26.790 I guess for security reason they didn't want to have the high technology enemy which is the Iraqi troops intercepting the data of the US troops but this system is working as long as you can see the vehicle which is on your back. 20:26.790 --> 20:35.110 But if you are running 75 miles per hour because you don't face the enemy, then you are losing this link and you are not capable to get any data. 20:35.110 --> 20:39.870 This was the reason why they had to stop and wait 12 hours to get the data. 20:39.870 --> 20:42.230 And they were killed, actually. 20:42.230 --> 20:43.050 Sorry. 20:44.390 --> 20:48.050 US soldiers lost life also due to this. 20:48.050 --> 20:52.770 Because they didn't have the backup of the intelligence telling them where the enemy is. 20:52.770 --> 20:56.890 They were facing the enemy in the same moment they realized it was existing. 20:56.950 --> 21:02.450 And at the same time the bullets, they were flying over their head. 21:04.870 --> 21:12.490 Now, the blue force tracking system, it's the system who tells you where the enemy is. 21:12.830 --> 21:24.450 Luckily, when they developed it, they assigned a certain amount of bandwidth to the BFT, which is actually working using the satellites. 21:24.450 --> 21:29.190 It doesn't work using direct microwave beams. 21:29.470 --> 21:36.070 It means you can always receive it actually the same system you are using on your car for your GPS system. 21:36.070 --> 21:37.610 Very similar. 21:39.090 --> 21:50.010 Luckily, the amount of bandwidth developed from the very beginning to supply information through the BFT system was more than it was actually needed. 21:50.010 --> 21:57.130 So, the developers having such extra bandwidth, they were thinking, what are we going to do? 21:57.130 --> 21:59.230 Are we going to use this bandwidth or not? 21:59.230 --> 21:59.770 Yes. 21:59.770 --> 22:00.470 What do we do? 22:00.530 --> 22:03.270 Let's build an email system. 22:03.930 --> 22:05.330 You never know. 22:05.330 --> 22:06.610 It might come in handy. 22:06.610 --> 22:16.570 It actually came in handy because the whole Iraqi invasion having the first system not working was actually organized through emails. 22:17.430 --> 22:27.450 USA was at war in the sense that through the email coming from the BFT system, they were capable to finally coordinate their own action. 22:29.570 --> 22:31.570 This was the past. 22:32.090 --> 22:33.310 Now, a question for you. 22:33.310 --> 22:37.210 To the one who is going to answer to me, I'm going to give a T-shirt. 22:37.210 --> 22:38.130 What is this? 22:39.090 --> 22:40.530 Can you tell me what is this? 22:43.650 --> 22:44.490 Excuse me? 22:45.690 --> 22:46.650 What is it? 22:47.890 --> 22:48.510 A trigger. 22:48.510 --> 22:49.250 No, no, no, no, no, no. 22:49.250 --> 22:49.910 Not a landmine. 22:49.910 --> 22:50.770 No, no, no, no, no. 22:53.390 --> 22:53.930 No? 22:55.550 --> 22:56.570 No, diesel pump? 22:56.570 --> 22:57.290 No, no, no, no? 22:57.730 --> 22:59.050 You have it in your kitchen. 22:59.050 --> 23:00.530 You have diesel pumps in your kitchen. 23:00.530 --> 23:01.310 What are you doing? 23:03.970 --> 23:05.030 What, what? 23:06.610 --> 23:07.530 Microwave? 23:09.410 --> 23:10.330 Magnetron. 23:11.670 --> 23:13.690 Please, it's a magnetron. 23:13.690 --> 23:17.530 And you have it in your microwave oven. 23:17.570 --> 23:28.670 And it's a system that can be used actually to disrupt direct microwave beams as it was used in the Iraq invasion. 23:28.670 --> 23:33.090 We will see later some other examples how to use such thing. 23:33.090 --> 23:35.970 Anyway, this was the past. 23:35.970 --> 23:41.150 And US Army actually didn't want to experience anymore such problem. 23:41.150 --> 23:46.110 No bandwidth, no connectivity, no tactical data, equal death. 23:46.170 --> 23:55.370 So they decided to develop a new system which is called FCS, which stands for Future Combat System. 23:55.370 --> 24:01.490 And it is a 21 billion dollar program but it is going to be upgraded already. 24:01.490 --> 24:04.930 It's exactly in the middle of its own development. 24:04.930 --> 24:06.710 It's not science fiction. 24:06.710 --> 24:09.270 Some prototypes have been already developed. 24:09.610 --> 24:19.470 And this is the system which is meant to totally substitute the way the US is doing the war in the future. 24:21.490 --> 24:22.970 In which way? 24:23.610 --> 24:26.570 We will come to the hacking part later, don't worry. 24:28.150 --> 24:33.330 The old war concept was that you should have heavy war equipment. 24:33.330 --> 24:38.270 The big Abram tank with having massive fire powers. 24:38.270 --> 24:41.490 I want to shoot once and I want to kill them all. 24:43.250 --> 24:45.170 Large battlefronts. 24:45.170 --> 24:48.050 Full division deployed on the territory. 24:48.230 --> 24:50.950 Let's occupy, hit, destroy. 24:52.350 --> 24:58.450 Having low tech infantry because high tech infantry cost a lot. 24:58.770 --> 25:05.330 And of course having vehicles which were driven by real people. 25:05.330 --> 25:09.590 Now, under the FCS program things are going to be changed. 25:09.990 --> 25:14.390 Not anymore heavy war equipment, but light war equipment. 25:14.390 --> 25:20.170 Instead of the big Abram tank, they are going to develop small, lighter tank. 25:21.790 --> 25:24.850 Faster than the Abram one. 25:24.890 --> 25:29.330 Having not a massive fire power, but having a minimal fire power. 25:29.550 --> 25:36.390 But they are so fast that they can shoot you and then move and shoot you again and then move and shoot again and again and again. 25:36.390 --> 25:39.990 Like if you are surrounded by a lot of bees. 25:39.990 --> 25:41.230 Basically you don't know. 25:41.670 --> 25:47.630 You are going to get hit from a lot of different directions . 25:48.070 --> 25:58.010 Instead of a large division of soldiers deployed on the territory, they are going to deploy small families, called families of soldiers. 25:58.010 --> 26:04.110 Typically in 12 12 people unit. 26:04.930 --> 26:09.090 So I put 12 people here, 12 people there, 12 people there. 26:09.190 --> 26:12.830 If you know where they are, they are very much vulnerable. 26:13.110 --> 26:14.670 You can kill them very easily. 26:14.670 --> 26:16.050 But there is a trick. 26:16.350 --> 26:18.570 We have a large use of intelligence. 26:18.570 --> 26:20.170 What does it mean? 26:20.170 --> 26:37.150 It means that I must be capable to supply through the FCS system information, immediate information, to the people, to the troops deployed on the battlefield, so that even if they are small families of soldiers, they will be constantly aware about what is going on. 26:37.270 --> 26:49.530 And the trick is that when the enemy thinks that they identified our troops, we are already capable to understand it, we move the troops somewhere else, and we hit the enemy. 26:49.530 --> 26:52.690 And then we are going to move them and again and again and again. 26:53.570 --> 26:57.210 And finally, having a large use of automatic vehicles. 26:59.030 --> 27:00.730 We have some examples here. 27:00.730 --> 27:03.390 Public data from globalsecurity.org. 27:03.390 --> 27:11.690 Some of them, especially the one in the box, you already saw the drones, the spy drones, they are already in force. 27:11.770 --> 27:13.810 Some other are prototypes. 27:13.810 --> 27:18.290 You can see also the size of the vehicle compared to the human being. 27:18.290 --> 27:22.170 They are much smaller than what we were used to see a long time ago. 27:23.290 --> 27:26.910 And these are the working prototypes of combat drones. 27:27.190 --> 27:41.910 In our comic, our heroes, they have to actually get rid of one of these combat drones which gets hijacked by an enemy's hacker, and it's used against its own troops. 27:43.830 --> 28:00.930 Now, always from public data, we can see that this is the timing, the Gantt diagram, basically, on how the FCS is meant to be deployed in the following years, when they developed this in 2001. 28:01.010 --> 28:11.570 And one thing you can note, it is that it's saying that the problem, actual problem, is that there is a lack of artificial intelligence. 28:11.570 --> 28:17.150 So they are drones, but they have limited capability of understanding the surroundings. 28:17.150 --> 28:29.970 Which means they can drive around by themselves, but in combat situations, if you have the risk to kill one of your own soldiers, better not to take such risk. 28:29.970 --> 28:33.230 Such vehicles will be taken over by a U.S. 28:33.230 --> 28:44.110 Army soldier, and they will be remotely controlled by him, which will actually tell to the drone where to shoot and how to shoot. 28:45.150 --> 28:58.390 Now, the question is, from the hacker point of view, to receive the signal, the control signal, it must be hooked to a network, and there is a network, we will see later. 28:58.750 --> 29:05.030 If there is a network, it means such thing is permanently connected and authenticated to the network. 29:05.490 --> 29:06.150 Good. 29:07.070 --> 29:17.850 But it can get, for example, it can get stuck into a hole or the wheels can blow up and the thing, the whole thing will be stopped in the middle of somewhere. 29:17.910 --> 29:21.290 So what if the enemy is going to put its own hands over it? 29:21.290 --> 29:25.130 It is dangerous to have a thing which is permanently connected to your network. 29:25.130 --> 29:28.030 Because the enemy can put the hands over the network. 29:28.070 --> 29:39.770 So I guess, I didn't find any reference, but I expect there are some, there might be some system to protect in such situation, like self-destroying system. 29:39.770 --> 29:43.090 Self-destroying, it doesn't mean it is going to be blown up. 29:43.110 --> 29:44.430 Because it might be dangerous. 29:44.430 --> 29:47.170 Because it might be close to your own soldiers. 29:47.290 --> 29:53.630 Self-destroying means that you will destroy the digital contents of the drones, leaving just basically a piece of art. 29:53.630 --> 30:00.130 You remember this, the American spy plane, which was landing on the Chinese island a few years ago? 30:01.170 --> 30:05.630 The American soldiers, before landing on the Chinese island, it was a spy plane. 30:05.630 --> 30:07.950 Basically, it was connected to the US Army network. 30:07.950 --> 30:12.670 They destroyed, not physically, but logically, all the content in the airplane. 30:13.030 --> 30:18.710 The Chinese authorities, they were capable to put their hands over a piece of hardware without the software. 30:18.710 --> 30:25.210 And you know better than me that if you have the hardware without the software, it's basically a little bit more than nothing. 30:26.990 --> 30:44.090 Now, then, if it has really such auto-destruction system, the smart hacker employed by the enemy might think ways to trigger the system of the self-destruction. 30:44.090 --> 30:50.010 Not doing it today, but doing it the day you need it and this thing is deployed on the battlefield. 30:50.090 --> 31:00.390 You are relying on its usage, but the hacker will actually destroy the content, triggering the self-destruction mechanism. 31:00.390 --> 31:03.810 Now , how this thing works? 31:03.810 --> 31:16.230 The FCS system, it is managed by a huge network, the largest network after Internet, actually, if I think, which is called Mosaic. 31:16.290 --> 31:24.550 Mosaic network, it is meant to manage the whole war infrastructure of US Army. 31:26.750 --> 31:36.070 Ships, submarines, airplanes, infantry, drones, everything will be connected somehow to this network. 31:36.170 --> 31:49.790 The network, the Mosaic network, it is meant to have a kind of quality of service feature based on the importance of the packet. 31:49.790 --> 32:00.970 If the packet is coming from the command and control center, this packet has priority in the mesh network because it is a mesh network. 32:01.310 --> 32:18.970 It means even if the network is congested, blocked somehow, overloaded, the packets coming from the high priority centers will be routed correctly to the end, having the other packets waiting for that. 32:18.970 --> 32:25.670 And in our comic, we can't say it here, but we can say it on the comic because the comic is science fiction. 32:25.670 --> 32:38.450 We actually imagine the way to exploit such a system just flooding it by high priority packets, by replicating them and saturating the network. 32:39.350 --> 32:40.130 Now, 32:43.370 --> 32:47.630 the FCS system, it is a system, a daring system. 32:47.630 --> 33:06.350 They already tried some of the pieces, some of the equipment and the network, it is TCP IP based and it's basically using traditional network equipment and several of the drones are actually Linux based. 33:06.350 --> 33:16.690 A miniaturized version of Linux of course, with harder stacks, maybe less holes, you never know. 33:17.630 --> 33:24.010 But it's still something which is public and based on public networking system. 33:24.970 --> 33:27.370 And now comes the problem. 33:27.710 --> 33:31.910 What I call the Apollo 13 effect. 33:31.910 --> 33:39.670 Do you actually know what was the real reason why the Apollo 13 had the problem? 33:39.670 --> 33:42.670 You remember that the oxygen tank exploded. 33:43.070 --> 33:46.070 If you know the reason, you can get a second T-shirt. 33:46.070 --> 33:51.370 Which was the real reason why the oxygen tank of the Apollo 13 exploded. 33:52.510 --> 33:54.890 Not communication problems. 33:55.390 --> 33:56.470 Wiring? 33:56.470 --> 33:57.210 Almost. 34:01.810 --> 34:02.770 Excuse me? 34:03.670 --> 34:06.790 A short in the oxygen center, but why? 34:10.360 --> 34:11.220 Electrical? 34:11.220 --> 34:12.340 Yes, almost. 34:12.340 --> 34:13.480 We are close. 34:20.380 --> 34:22.020 No, no, no, no. 34:22.020 --> 34:23.460 Well, if nobody is... 34:23.820 --> 34:24.820 You? 34:27.790 --> 34:29.150 No? 34:29.150 --> 34:31.070 No? 34:31.070 --> 34:32.390 Voltage. 34:32.750 --> 34:34.270 Voltage. 34:35.270 --> 34:39.310 The Apollo 13 project was a huge project. 34:40.010 --> 34:45.390 A lot of suppliers Rockwell, Boeing, and so on. 34:45.390 --> 34:48.430 They were helping NASA to develop the systems. 34:49.070 --> 35:03.350 From Apollo 12 to Apollo 13, the difference is that they decided to increase the voltage which was used to run the systems in the Apollo 13. 35:04.070 --> 35:10.890 So all the developers, all the subcontractors, they were informed, of course, except one. 35:11.190 --> 35:12.230 Rockwell. 35:13.270 --> 35:19.290 And, which is by the way, one of the subcontractors of the SCS system, but anyway. 35:19.570 --> 35:26.770 Not being informed about such increase in the voltage, they were supplying the oxygen tank and it blown up. 35:26.770 --> 35:29.530 Because it was overloaded by voltage. 35:30.230 --> 35:32.030 You can get the T-shirt anyway. 35:33.470 --> 35:35.590 Now, why it happened? 35:35.590 --> 35:36.630 It's actually normal. 35:36.630 --> 35:43.110 In my experience, when I work besides Zone H, I do penetration tests with my own company. 35:43.130 --> 35:55.750 And one of the things I noticed is when you have complex systems made up, for example, by different subcontractors, the implementation of such systems it is introducing more vulnerabilities. 35:55.750 --> 36:01.430 Rockwell was one of a new vulnerability for the Apollo 13 program. 36:02.030 --> 36:15.110 Now, I expect given the fact that we have FCS being a consortium much bigger than the Apollo 13 one of company, mostly American company. 36:15.230 --> 36:17.550 The leader of the consortium is Boeing. 36:17.550 --> 36:27.290 You can see actually advertising on CNN in these days, not specifically related to the FCS system, but the images they are showing are belonging to the FCS system. 36:27.770 --> 36:32.730 So the general public start to be aware about such system. 36:33.830 --> 36:47.510 The Apollo 13 sorry, the FCS system, it is led by Boeing, having also a large consortium of company to be actually managed as a project manager. 36:47.830 --> 36:55.490 We can say actually Boeing is the FCS project manager on behalf of the Department of Defense. 36:57.350 --> 37:01.750 Now, how does it work? 37:01.750 --> 37:02.310 The U.S. 37:02.310 --> 37:03.810 Congress tell to U.S. 37:03.810 --> 37:05.910 Army, yes, you have to develop a new system. 37:05.910 --> 37:10.810 They assign a budget and then they name a project leader, Boeing. 37:11.310 --> 37:16.030 Then the system are divided in subsystems and in consortium. 37:16.030 --> 37:22.270 There is the consortium of companies which are developing robotics, artificial intelligence. 37:22.270 --> 37:27.130 Then there is a consortium of companies which is developing unmanned vehicles. 37:27.130 --> 37:31.790 Another consortium of companies which is developing weaponry, and so on. 37:31.790 --> 37:36.050 Each company has to report to Boeing how things are going on. 37:36.710 --> 37:41.470 And of course, each consortium itself has a consortium leader. 37:41.470 --> 37:49.530 The consortium leader has to act as a sub project manager to the rest of the companies belonging to the same consortium. 37:50.530 --> 38:07.810 Each consortium and each company in the consortium has its own project manager, internal company project manager, who has to lead the activity of the programmers, for example, which are developing within the company a particular piece of the SES system. 38:08.010 --> 38:22.370 Now, you can imagine, if you add all the programmers, each programmer developing the system, by the way, FCS system, it is 31 millions of code, the software, 31 millions of lines of code. 38:22.370 --> 38:31.790 You can imagine how many conceptual and practical vulnerabilities there might be introduced by people who never developed, for example, such software, because nobody did it before. 38:31.790 --> 38:34.330 It is a totally new thing. 38:34.330 --> 38:49.630 And when a lot of programmers belonging to a company, which is put together with a lot of other different companies which are belonging to a consortium, which are put together with several other consortiums, are going, finally, to integrate what they produced, 38:49.630 --> 38:54.810 the software, you can imagine the huge amount of shit that can come out. 38:58.190 --> 39:14.250 Now, as a personal experience, and also analyzing the data coming from Zone H, we have one million of cyber crimes web defacement, let's call it web defacement, filed in our archives. 39:14.250 --> 39:19.790 For each, we know how it happened and the reason of the attacks. 39:20.930 --> 39:29.950 We can say, today, most of the hacks which we see every day, two and a half thousand servers hacked per day. 39:29.950 --> 39:33.130 This is the amount of data we are receiving at zoneh.org. 39:33.690 --> 39:38.910 80% of the time, the system is hacked through the application layer. 39:38.910 --> 39:41.730 And FCS system is mostly application. 39:42.230 --> 39:46.110 Now, I want to say they are better than the average. 39:46.110 --> 40:08.430 It will be vulnerable, maybe 40% on the application level, but still there are possible vulnerabilities to be introduced by the system integration, for example, the protocol might be bugged, the transmission protocol might be bugged, the hardware integration might introduce vulnerabilities and also, 40:08.430 --> 40:11.450 of course, information leakage. 40:11.730 --> 40:17.770 Hackers are actively looking to get information about the FCS. 40:17.770 --> 40:28.710 I met, personally, a guy in Rome which was representing US Navi and he was investigating on leaks. 40:28.710 --> 40:32.290 He didn't name to me the FCS system itself. 40:32.290 --> 40:47.010 He told me we are looking for information about hackers coming from the East Europe, stealing a piece of information about military software or military programs under development. 40:47.390 --> 40:52.110 Well, the only military program under development so far, big, is the FCS system. 40:52.110 --> 40:54.810 And no need to name it, actually. 40:54.810 --> 40:58.170 It was clear to me that they are having such problem already. 40:58.170 --> 41:06.770 There are spies who are actually using hacker means to get information about this new system. 41:15.140 --> 41:16.300 Now, 41:19.590 --> 41:31.830 if there are software problems, that might be software problems, again, read the comic and you will get a very good hint on how to hack the mosaic network. 41:33.130 --> 41:34.810 There are also other problems. 41:34.810 --> 41:43.310 First of all, the FCS system is organized following the lobbying standard procedure in the American way. 41:43.310 --> 41:49.390 So, the president got a lot of money for his campaign from Boeing. 41:49.390 --> 41:55.470 Therefore, Boeing, for example, doing some science fiction. 41:55.490 --> 42:04.430 Boeing is named as a project leader, but then also other people, they were sustaining the campaign, then they also have to have a little piece. 42:04.430 --> 42:10.170 So, it is not always distributed as it should be, the work. 42:10.850 --> 42:16.710 Lobbyism has a big part in the decision to which company assign a project or not. 42:16.970 --> 42:20.850 Then, the military software is not open sourced, of course. 42:20.850 --> 42:24.290 You know, Linux is the most audited code ever. 42:24.290 --> 42:26.890 Still, we are finding vulnerabilities. 42:26.910 --> 42:27.930 Still. 42:28.230 --> 42:29.470 Firefox. 42:30.550 --> 42:34.550 Everybody using Firefox because it was open sourced two years ago. 42:36.130 --> 42:42.670 I don't know anybody who was actually reading the source, but they were saying, oh, it's open sourced, so I can use it. 42:42.670 --> 42:43.770 It's safe. 42:43.770 --> 42:46.810 But still, are coming out new vulnerabilities. 42:47.110 --> 42:48.670 Because it's open sourced. 42:48.670 --> 42:53.690 A closed source platform, basically it is a never audited platform. 42:53.710 --> 42:56.530 Because who is going to audit the FCS system? 42:56.530 --> 42:58.430 The same people who are developing it. 42:58.430 --> 43:02.570 And you know better than me that you can't audit your own job. 43:03.170 --> 43:09.430 The job should be outsourced by somebody else, but because it's military, you can't do it. 43:09.430 --> 43:17.450 Therefore, I expect, by my experience, to find a lot of vulnerability in the application level and within the lines. 43:19.170 --> 43:33.230 Then, if the FCS system is leading your troops on the battlefield, losing somehow connectivity, or being hacked, leads to a lot of trouble. 43:33.230 --> 43:37.270 Because you don't have anymore a large battlefront which is capable to defend itself. 43:37.270 --> 43:41.370 Now you have small families of soldiers, 12 soldiers, dispersed in the territory. 43:41.370 --> 43:44.190 They don't get shit from the satellite or information. 43:44.190 --> 43:45.110 They don't know where they are. 43:45.110 --> 43:46.490 They don't know where the enemy is. 43:46.490 --> 43:50.350 They don't get the command from the command and control center. 43:50.350 --> 43:51.550 They don't know what to do. 43:51.550 --> 43:52.690 They are blind, basically. 43:52.690 --> 43:56.770 They are slow, because they are without heavy equipment. 43:56.770 --> 44:00.470 And they are a very vulnerable target. 44:01.070 --> 44:16.730 Now, if I am an enemy of the United States today, definitely I would start a program for collecting as much information as I can about such FCS system. 44:16.730 --> 44:25.730 Because nobody can fight against the United States using the same system, because you need a lot of money. 44:25.730 --> 44:30.890 There is no symmetric power as an enemy for the United States. 44:30.890 --> 44:39.190 The only way you can fight the United States, if the United States is adopting such a system, is to use asymmetric ways. 44:39.190 --> 44:49.790 And one of the ways is to hack the servers of the companies which today are going to develop such a system, and to try to steal information. 44:49.790 --> 45:11.370 And one of the things which we did, we were imagining to be I don't know, hackers coming from North Korea, or hackers coming from Iran, and to see how much of information we could find on the Internet to hack the system. 45:14.300 --> 45:15.820 It's not done. 45:19.280 --> 45:20.000 So... 45:20.820 --> 45:26.940 This is a question I put there, just a little forward to the question. 45:26.960 --> 45:32.680 The most vulnerable system, as everybody knows, is our brain, right? 45:32.680 --> 45:33.960 So it's the human being. 45:33.960 --> 45:39.780 The human being with all its vulnerabilities and its ways to be bought or exploited. 45:39.900 --> 45:43.220 So, that's why I put this question there. 45:43.220 --> 45:48.840 Who are the best security-aware managers or people in the world's history? 45:49.700 --> 45:50.920 The Pharaohs. 45:51.220 --> 45:56.800 They got a lot of people to build the pyramids and then at the end they killed them all. 45:56.800 --> 46:01.960 I didn't find any slide with the people being killed afterwards, so I didn't put it, but that's the thing. 46:02.520 --> 46:05.120 So, we cannot do it now. 46:05.360 --> 46:11.400 The right way would be we build a future combat system and then we kill everybody that build it. 46:11.400 --> 46:14.560 Then we wouldn't have anybody to maintain it, but that's not a problem. 46:14.860 --> 46:17.180 It's illegal, but what the hell. 46:18.880 --> 46:25.120 So, this is just to explode what I was saying before. 46:25.460 --> 46:31.500 This slide, I borrowed it from a Swedish study from a university there. 46:31.500 --> 46:32.840 That's actually pretty... 46:32.840 --> 46:37.100 I liked it very much because it explains all the phases of the conflict. 46:37.180 --> 46:46.380 You have the mechanical war at the center, which is big armies facing each other with the guns and going forward and shooting and everybody falls down. 46:46.380 --> 46:49.420 At the end, only one soldier remains and that army won. 46:50.060 --> 46:52.600 There was the old way to fight. 46:52.600 --> 46:56.360 Then you have the dirty war, which is terrorism or resistance war. 46:56.360 --> 46:57.860 Depends from the viewpoint. 46:58.000 --> 46:59.360 If you win, it's resistance. 46:59.360 --> 47:01.200 If you lose, it's terrorism. 47:01.940 --> 47:11.280 Then you have peace war, which is the war that was fought between the Eastern Bloc and the Western Bloc when there was the Soviet Union. 47:11.580 --> 47:17.280 And the systemic war, which is the war that can be fought only by the United States right now, which has the money. 47:17.280 --> 47:24.540 It's the big difference between all the other types of war and systemic war is money and the other wars are people. 47:24.540 --> 47:25.800 More people, more money. 47:27.160 --> 47:30.940 And, you know, little windows that you can hit with the intelligent bombs. 47:31.040 --> 47:32.440 And then you have the ICT war. 47:32.440 --> 47:50.060 ICT war is a type of dirty war which can be fought only by subjects which have the capability or which are linked, which have a high technological situation in their countries and can be fought only against another country which has the same situation. 47:50.060 --> 47:54.720 For example, you cannot fight an ICT war against Iran because they have only two servers, I think. 47:54.860 --> 48:02.460 Last time I checked, it was a couple of mail servers in the mines and whatever ministry, etc. 48:02.460 --> 48:07.080 They don't have anything on the nuclear side, so that's unfortunate for the intelligent people here. 48:07.960 --> 48:15.240 And but you can fight an ICT war between, I don't know, I'm just doing fiction, Japan and whatever, Korea. 48:15.240 --> 48:19.020 They are not at war, but if they would, that would be the thing. 48:19.480 --> 48:26.320 So if you want to, this is taken from a book which is called Unrestricted Warfare. 48:26.320 --> 48:31.820 I think everybody that has some interest in this has read it. 48:31.820 --> 48:38.860 It was first translated by the CIA and then it was retranslated again because there were some points which were not totally clear. 48:39.160 --> 48:52.340 And they were the first that unrestricted because they hypothesized that any kind of means to fight a war, there are no rules in fighting a war, which means that you can do just about anything. 48:52.340 --> 48:54.920 The important thing is the result, to win. 48:55.920 --> 49:07.200 And they were the first to say that one of the best means to fight a war would be through electronic means, exploiting the electronics and the telematics. 49:08.680 --> 49:11.180 So, future combat system. 49:11.180 --> 49:20.150 This is all the material you will see from here on up to the last slide, which is done by some, I think, Accenture. 49:20.480 --> 49:23.820 They are all being taken from open source. 49:23.960 --> 49:25.400 Nothing has been hacked. 49:26.200 --> 49:27.000 Right? 49:27.880 --> 49:29.040 Okay. 49:30.320 --> 49:36.660 So, this is the distribution of the consortiums that work on the future combat system. 49:36.660 --> 49:42.460 So, if you want to do research from an intelligence point of view, you start from here. 49:42.460 --> 49:45.760 You see who is working for whom and on what. 49:46.080 --> 49:48.020 And then, you get... 49:49.480 --> 49:50.480 Wow! 49:50.480 --> 49:55.580 You get all the companies that work on what project and where they are located. 49:57.380 --> 50:00.300 One, two, three, four pages. 50:00.300 --> 50:01.140 Wow! 50:01.840 --> 50:02.880 Wow! 50:02.880 --> 50:03.940 What's that? 50:04.360 --> 50:06.740 You get all the... 50:06.740 --> 50:08.180 What is this? 50:10.020 --> 50:23.160 So, this is the specific project that has been assigned, the description of the project, the company and other little information about that. 50:23.200 --> 50:26.760 And then, you have one, two and here you go. 50:27.060 --> 50:35.500 So, this is all you need, actually, to do what you need to do if you want to start fighting this future combat system. 50:35.600 --> 50:47.500 You have the companies, you have the projects, you have the project managers, the people, the ICs, their email address, their email service and their phone number. 50:47.720 --> 50:49.460 So, what else do you want? 50:49.460 --> 50:54.080 We have two pages of that as an example because we didn't want to make the presentation too long. 50:55.120 --> 51:07.360 So, you know, of course, that if you have already an email address of a person, you can do a lot of things from remote because you can use modern Trojan horses technologies or things like that. 51:07.360 --> 51:17.320 And I assure you that in the industrial espionage business, which is a business right now, this type of methods and exploiting is being used constantly. 51:17.580 --> 51:19.620 And it is very well paid. 51:19.900 --> 51:21.220 Very well paid. 51:22.100 --> 51:30.780 In the other hand, if you don't have the technical capability, you can just send a person with a bag full of money and you just find out how much one of these people costs. 51:30.780 --> 51:31.820 Maybe he's not happy. 51:32.220 --> 51:35.040 How people are bought in companies. 51:35.040 --> 51:36.580 Maybe you didn't get your promotion. 51:36.580 --> 51:38.680 Maybe your boss was too harsh on you. 51:38.680 --> 51:42.380 Maybe, I don't know, your wife left you and then you are not happy. 51:42.380 --> 51:48.680 And then this person comes near to you at the bar and says, you are better than that. 51:48.680 --> 51:52.220 I think you should do something for a better cause. 51:52.220 --> 51:54.100 Here is $10,000. 51:54.120 --> 51:55.520 $10,000 is not too much. 51:55.520 --> 51:56.800 Here is $20,000. 51:57.000 --> 51:59.840 At the end, somebody says, okay, let's do it. 52:00.920 --> 52:06.580 So, another thing, which you can see here, is a system like the future combat system. 52:06.620 --> 52:07.640 What can exploit it? 52:07.640 --> 52:09.720 We said before, I mean, you just need to jam it. 52:09.720 --> 52:11.200 You don't need to hack it, actually. 52:11.200 --> 52:13.560 Because hackers are perfect. 52:13.560 --> 52:15.540 They want to do things. 52:16.120 --> 52:18.360 It's the act of hacking, which must be. 52:18.360 --> 52:20.500 It's not always the result. 52:20.500 --> 52:24.960 You want to do that thing and then you say, okay, it's easy to do it. 52:24.960 --> 52:32.160 The easy thing is for no good shit, you say in America. 52:32.180 --> 52:34.740 I want to do it in a very artistic way. 52:34.740 --> 52:39.520 Maybe you take six months and you never get the result because it's too old by the time you get the result. 52:39.860 --> 52:42.700 So you just sometimes need to jam something. 52:42.700 --> 52:44.280 The communication, for example. 52:44.280 --> 52:50.760 In this case, you have an EMP shock generator, which is an electromagnetic pulse shock generator. 52:50.760 --> 52:52.380 It's a bomb, basically. 52:52.440 --> 52:59.380 You can rent it for research and discovery or research and development purposes, if you can prove you are a researcher. 52:59.600 --> 53:03.440 And a lot of people can prove it for $1,500 a month. 53:03.440 --> 53:07.840 And then you can have the option to buy it for $11,000 afterwards. 53:09.760 --> 53:11.160 So this is public. 53:11.160 --> 53:13.740 I mean, if you want to buy it, I thought about it, actually. 53:15.580 --> 53:20.900 You put it in the middle of a square somewhere and then you activate it. 53:20.900 --> 53:24.900 You run very fast because you need to get about three miles far. 53:24.900 --> 53:30.060 And then everything in three miles just burns out. 53:30.060 --> 53:36.220 Every circuit and all the people that are around the bomb also get suntanned a little bit. 53:37.500 --> 53:49.060 So this I put because in the company where I work for, there are a lot of consultants which are being paid a lot of money to do things like that. 53:49.200 --> 53:51.900 This is a security management learning model. 53:52.000 --> 53:56.720 And it's supposed to tell you how to do security in a company or whatever. 53:57.220 --> 54:10.620 And from my experience, all the things that we just said and all the things that we saw in the past, I can tell you that this is just if you work for a company, just don't pay people to do things like that. 54:10.620 --> 54:13.440 They are very good if you want to make a big picture. 54:13.440 --> 54:18.960 We say in Italy, if you want to wrap fish, you go and buy fish and you need paper to wrap it. 54:19.060 --> 54:20.820 That's the thing. 54:20.820 --> 54:23.140 So sorry if there is any big consultant in here. 54:23.140 --> 54:25.940 And if you have any questions, we don't have enough time. 54:25.940 --> 54:27.560 So just write us an email. 54:28.260 --> 54:28.920 Okay? 54:32.620 --> 54:34.560 You can come here. 54:34.660 --> 54:36.440 We have the CD with the comic. 54:36.440 --> 54:37.140 You can get it. 54:37.140 --> 54:47.900 And by the way, it was supposed to be signed by the Dark Tangent but you know the little Cisco problem he had in the Black Hat was keeping him busy. 54:47.900 --> 54:53.900 So basically he will sign it just if you show up yourself with a CD he will sign it. 54:53.900 --> 54:54.640 We'll be happy to sign it. 54:54.640 --> 54:55.820 CDs are there. 54:56.080 --> 54:58.620 And we have a few keystraps here.