start	end	text
0	4000	So any of you that know, of course, what we do with social engineering, it seems like
4100	10440	a logical progression that we would get together with someone like Apollo, someone who is a
10440	15160	master at getting close to people without them feeling uncomfortable, and then being
15160	19120	able to do all sorts of fun stuff. And we know for the entertainment value, like take
19120	23440	things off of you, but there's so much more value to it psychologically from a social
23440	27420	engineering perspective, from a security perspective. Getting close to people and having them not
27420	34300	feel uncomfortable is something that really can work for us. So Apollo was part of a crew
34300	41820	that made a short film, right? That was never released for the general public. So he's got
41940	46200	a clip of that. As soon as we get this projector running, we're going to open up this session
46200	50500	with a little piece of that video so you get a sense of what we're going to be talking
50500	55440	about here today. And then we're going to do some Q&A and some other things about the
55440	59900	talk. The title of the talk is 60 Minutes in the Mind of a Grifter. And we'll talk about
59900	61620	what that is, how that applies to us.
61620	63120	I think it's 52 minutes.
63200	70220	52 minutes? So it is now 51 and a half minutes in the mind of a grifter. We'll see how that
70220	73180	works. It looks like our projector is now living.
73980	82680	Awesome. A couple of things. That's natural. It looks like that's what the mirroring would
82680	83220	work like.
83840	87860	Everyone get a mirror and turn around and watch this screen. On this side, pull out
87860	89060	your mirrors and watch.
90560	93280	I want to be out here so I can chat with you a little bit closer.
96680	97320	Suckers.
97620	102360	This is kind of a test also because if I speak here later on, I want to see. Half of my body
102360	106140	is cut off so for the guys in the back it might be hard for them to see. Anybody that
106140	109660	can't see me very well, can you raise your hand just so I know who you are and I'll play
109660	113760	to you. So we have a couple, two, three, okay, I don't care about you guys. We can just deal
113760	114580	with these guys.
116840	121980	The nature of a con, most of you are probably familiar with when you hear the term con artist,
121980	128180	con stands for confidence. But the idea of the confidence is how do you get the confidence
128180	133620	of your mark? How do you get them to be convicted about what they're doing? The difference between
133620	137840	belief and knowing something. You can believe something, I think it might be this, but if
137840	142180	you can get somebody to be absolutely sure that they'll doubt their assumptions, they
142740	146660	don't have any doubt, they'll move forward. That's really what a con is. It's how to get
146660	153740	them so concrete about what you're presenting to them that they have no doubt. What's great
153740	157540	about that for the social engineering is there's a lot of overlap. The social engineering is
157540	161180	trying to take that into a science versus something that's been based on intuition in
161180	161920	the past.
163600	169080	I don't even know if I can add anything to that. That might make me cry. That's exactly,
169080	172680	you guys know, how many people here, I always hate when I ask this question, because then
172680	177580	I get one hand and I feel stupid. How many people here listen to the podcast? Oh, good,
177580	181860	more than one. There's like five of you. Okay, so you know what we do on the show, right?
181860	186920	Every month we're trying to analyze psychologically the principles behind how bad guys get to
186920	190820	do the things that they do. And that's why this is such an important talk, because it's
190820	193940	not just intuition, it's not just sleight of hand, it's not a magic trick. It's actually
193940	198840	understanding what happens up here when you do the things that Apollo does and why it
198840	202680	works. If we can understand that, then we can duplicate it and we can also defend against
202680	208280	it since we are supposed to be the good guys. So this is really a valuable lesson for all
208280	212340	of us here, especially those of us that do this for a living and have to defend networks.
212520	217300	If you don't, you still got to defend your family. And the last 18 months, guys, what's
217300	219700	been going on? It's like non‑stop, right? Every day is another...
219700	227000	It's set up for reverse projection right now. I'm going to say three.
228100	233480	So it's just the reverse projecting set up right now. Can I make a suggestion? Do you
233480	235560	mind if I borrow this mic? I do not mind.
236600	241140	This was actually supposed to be a Q&A, so the big part of that is you guys. So is there
241140	244480	anybody here who has any questions for me that might be familiar? And as you notice,
244480	248500	we're kind of skipping past any kind of background on what I do. You've heard that apparently
248500	253520	I steal things or I run cons. But we can ask some questions now and kind of do that while
253520	255220	we give some time for those guys.
256280	261740	Hey, Apollo, I wonder how you break people's psychological space without them getting super
261740	266400	suspicious. Or is it just all a matter of redirecting that suspicion elsewhere once
266820	270280	you're in there? Because you're right, you're touching people, you're right up against people
270280	272300	you don't even know and that don't know you.
272300	278780	That changes based on context. So when I perform and I'm doing a show, I oftentimes, when you've
278780	283020	seen videos of me, I use something like a bit of magic or I might use something else
283020	287960	that allows me to get inside that space. But when you interact with someone, there are
287960	294340	different zones. Edward T. Hall wrote a great book on this called Hidden Dimension. He coined
294340	298400	the term proxemics. Now parapersonal space is often what's referred to. Would you mind
298400	305500	standing for me for a second? Read it this way. I saw the big flinch. Go ahead and turn
305500	307960	straight toward me so we can just see you face to face.
308100	312820	So as I walk closer to him, you have your social space that's in a larger area. You
312820	316900	have your personal space, which is a little bit... then you have an intimate space. And
316900	321640	the difference between the intimate and the personal is you can almost see, I mean, here
321640	325120	he was actually kind of exaggerating it with straightening right up and then going back
325120	329300	to shifting his center of body weight. But if I want to get into those, if you think
329300	333720	of it like paying a toll, like you're on a bridge, I'm paying a toll to bypass this one,
333720	338840	to bypass this one, to get inside that space. And the way I pay that toll is making a logical
338840	344020	excuse that's natural to the environment. So a lot of times when I'm performing, I have
344020	347840	that through my performing persona to get in and speak to him. But on the street they
347840	351780	have to come in with other reasons. So it may be assisting you with asking a map or
351780	355620	it might be something as simple as asking you for the time. But you notice here by turning
355620	362380	I'm relaxing him a lot more. Now, the space that he has is shaped like an egg. It's larger,
362380	368960	not just yours personally, everybody's is. It wasn't a personal thing, man. So it comes
368960	374500	out like an oval here in the space. It's smaller on the sides and then in the back. And to
374500	377760	get into that, that means I can get inside. It's much more comfortable for him, which
377760	381320	is you can see kind of where we're defaulting to. But go ahead and face straight up to me
381320	387240	again. Now, watch, as I walk towards the space, I'm at it. Now, I can make him much more comfortable
387240	392880	simply by breaking eye contact and stepping inside of his space. On to the side. But if
392880	397820	I keep eye contact as I walk into his space, it's a lot more tense for him. I wish you
397820	402980	guys could see what I see. It's a little bit more bright. All right. But same thing, if
402980	406440	I don't want him to focus on something I'm doing here, I can bring my face up and I'll
406440	411800	pull his attention up like I just did there. Just because I'm in that zone. Now, imagine
412400	417160	one of the current problems you would have is if you wanted to try some new RFID reader
417160	421140	because you're inside of a space and you wanted to have a rational way to how do I get close
421140	425860	to his badge? In this case, what would be an excuse for why you can come inside and
425860	435460	get close to his badge with an RFID reader? Well, to have a closer look, see what it says,
435460	441100	squid? I definitely remember you, though, if you have a closer look. And on the street
441100	446140	they call that kissing the dog. So kissing the dog means I spent a lot of time with him
446140	450020	and he remembers my face. Oh, you mean the guy that was looking at my badge just came
450020	454660	up to me in the coffee shop. So context means a lot. So here it would make sense that you
454660	459400	could look at the badge. So you might say that's interesting. But if I wanted to be
459400	464180	under the radar and have him not remember that, I might use something else. If I'm serving
464180	469180	hors d'oeuvres, if I'm holding something nearby, or I might ask somebody else a question,
469180	474360	have my backpack behind me. And now this makes it a lot lower. Or if I'm holding something
474360	478700	else that's a tray, I ask him if he wants something, have it underneath the tray or
478700	483240	have it underneath a stack of books. Sorry, could you hold this for me? Giving him something
483240	486920	to hold on to, he's holding it right in front of his badge while I'm doing something over
486920	490860	here and I just say thank you very much. But I don't ask his permission, you notice this.
490860	495500	I might just say hold on to this for me. Or just here and do this. And then afterwards
495500	499560	I apologize for why I was doing it. So those are some different ways to bypass to get inside
499560	506580	of space. Obviously depends on a kind of a recipe of context mixed with plausibility.
508360	513680	We're still ‑‑ that one shot the dust on the projector. Did we do a call of death
513680	520440	tone on the projector? So one other question? No, we can do questions or we can also play
520440	524180	on the side. But I'm feeling like for ‑‑ thank you, man. By the way, just a round of
524180	526520	applause. Thank you, man. You're a good sport. I appreciate that.
529580	534020	Out of the folks that we have here, quite a few of you can't see this screen at all,
534020	539660	can we? You can't see this screen? You can't see it?
540380	544600	Just for the first few rows that can't, there's a bunch of seats over here if you want to
544600	548480	move over. And then for the rows that can see it, you can stay. But there's a bunch
548480	552440	of seats and we can actually start. If you want to come over to the front row. Come on,
552440	558460	Christina, Michael, come on. It's okay. I would love for you guys to ‑‑ I have
558460	562960	visuals to show you on this. But obviously speaking about it, I'm worried that some of
562960	568240	you guys can't see for the context of what we're saying. Other questions? Anybody with
568320	571120	a hand right here? That's right.
578410	582710	So assuming we'd like to learn more about the techniques and what you're doing, nothing
582710	588950	malicious, of course. What resources do you have or can we find online?
589350	595130	What resources do I have? The only thing that's coming up right now, I did a TED talk about
595250	599310	a month and a half ago at TED Global. It's coming up in a week and a half, two weeks.
600390	603750	Some of what I was going to show there, I was going to show here as well on visuals.
604250	609150	But as far as materials, I can point you to things if you'd like to. That book I mentioned,
609150	613310	Hidden Dimension, is a great resource. If you're interested in a lot of the work that
613310	618750	I do is taking advantage of false assumptions, fallacies, cognitive biases and heuristics
618750	624110	in general, mental shortcuts. If you are interested in reading about some of that, besides any
624110	629770	book on critical thinking that jumps into fallacies, there's a great book by Daniel
629770	635370	Kahneman called Thinking, Fast and Slow. And it talks about the idea of two systems, how
635370	639570	our minds work. And most of us, especially in this group, a lot of us would probably
639570	644210	pride ourselves on being critical thinkers, wouldn't you say? That we don't get affected,
644210	649430	we try to keep our head inside of logic versus stepping out and being ruled by emotion. His
649430	653890	book talks a lot about how we automate certain tasks because otherwise we would go insane.
653890	659690	If we try and we react faster through instincts, how we can quickly respond to something because
659690	665210	we've automated that skill set. And the fault with that is when you've automated that skill
665210	670770	set, you're subject to biases and responses and shortcuts that you might not have been
670770	676490	aware of. Which is great for what we're trying to do here. Because if I can identify what
676490	680950	you've automated, I know that somewhere along those lines you've made assumptions. And those
680950	686510	assumptions are my building block for designing a deception. Any other questions?
686510	697310	I'm going to run. Keep your hand up. Where were you? There you are.
698170	705450	Hello. Does humor can somehow help you getting closer to people while keeping them comfortable?
705850	712310	Yeah. Humor is amazing because it's so hard to fake. I used to use that for drawing crowds
712310	718570	in a trade show environment. Applause you can kind of get. But humor, people wonder
718570	724230	would I laugh at that? And so it's something that you think is an authentic response. So
724230	729590	if you can artificially laugh and it seems very genuine inside of a situation, it's very
729590	733570	engaging as far as that context. I'll give you an example. A friend of mine used to run
733710	742530	a con called The Drawer. And he would use this for selling either guns or a drug paraphernalia.
743050	748330	And it would be set up in an old motel. He'd be working with a partner. Sorry, is my mic
748330	754390	too quiet for you guys? Can you see okay? And in this context, his partner would be
754390	759070	dressed in a robe, was a very gregarious guy, and his main ability was making people laugh.
759250	764130	They seemed very likable, like some of my friends here. And when they would come to
764130	768890	do a purchase at the motel, they would arrive apparently early. They'd knock on the door,
768890	774130	he answers, he's in his robe, all of his bath materials are laid out on the bed. And he'd
774130	778310	say, I'm sorry, my partners aren't here right now. You guys are a little bit early. But
778310	782650	he lets the guys who are purchasing the guns or the drugs to come in the door. When they
782650	786830	come in the door, he has a conversation with them, says, do you have the cash, everything?
786830	790070	I don't want to count, we'll count it later, just stick it in the drawer. They stick it
790070	794650	in the drawer of the dresser, he chats with them for a bit, says, listen, I like you guys,
794650	799350	how about I'll just go and get the stuff and I'll bring it in, are we cool? They say yes.
799510	803330	He steps out of the room, leaves them in there with their money, with all this stuff, his
803750	808350	luggage, everything. Goes to get the stuff from another room, from his partner's room.
808630	813970	And he never comes back. At some point, they wonder why he's coming back, so finally they
813970	817890	decide, you know, let's just take our stuff and go. They open the drawer, it's empty.
819650	823970	What my friend had done was he was in the room next door, they had opened up, cut a
823970	827430	hole in the wall, cut a hole in the back of the dresser and pulled everything from inside
827430	832530	the drawer and taken it out. They said the ability of that guy with his humor was his
832530	837470	main thing that made them feel at ease. He's in his robe, his luggage is here, but when
837470	841210	they open the luggage, it's empty. When they look at the stuff, it's just throw away dollar
841210	845150	stuff they could have bought and under his robe were his clothes when he left. That was
845150	847810	one of the cons they used to run. Any other questions?
855630	859130	This might be an oddball question, but what do you think about shows like The Mentalist
859490	861550	and the character Patrick Jane?
862830	871530	The Mentalist is a very cool area of study. For myself, my wife is a mentalist. If any
871530	877890	of you have seen this movie recently, Now You See Me, they have the archetypes there
877890	883830	in magic, illusionist, sleight of hand artist, mentalist. It is a different category. It's
883830	889010	psychological manipulations. And there's this interesting thing, a mentalist and a psychic.
889890	892890	Awesome. You guys are great. Thank you so much for doing that.
894650	900430	Mentalist and psychic are a flip of a switch. It's basically psychic is someone who says
900430	903930	that they can tell you, or especially a medium, someone who talks to the dead, is someone
903930	908730	who says they have these abilities, but that they came from some supernatural way. A mentalist
908730	913410	is someone who ethically says I can do these things, but it's a skill that I've learned.
913730	917350	And they are using some kind of trickery to create the perception that they're doing that.
917350	922990	In that character on the mentalist there, he has the ability of cold reading, hot reading,
922990	926710	profiling and those tools that he's using to help the police. And those things are very
926710	930130	real and that's very personal to my life with some of the things I work on.
931050	931910	Are we ready to begin?
931910	936890	We are ready to begin. We can hold some questions after maybe. Let's get started with the real
936890	937510	show.
938250	942830	So just a little setup on this. This is a short film I worked on for a company in Montreal.
942830	949090	It's about ten minutes long, but it lets you see a little con and a little bit of stealing
949090	954370	all happen. I worked with them to try to make it a con that would happen in ten minutes.
954530	959110	So make your assumptions about where it's going to go and let's see how well it works.
963920	967220	Let's make sure that this plays up on both screens for you as well.
981030	985390	It's waiting for the DVD to load. And that's all on me. That's not you guys.
994640	998500	It's one of those things that happens when you really look for something and...
1000200	1009060	Okay. And we need to pull that over to the other screen for you. There you go.
1011340	1015000	That's a fun game. And play.
1023760	1031420	No, no, no. That's the one I want. The automatic zoom item. Unfortunately, they're all gone.
1031420	1039060	What do you mean all gone? Gone. Gone. Bye-bye. No more. It's the magazine. Everything must go.
1043160	1045520	What does it say here?
1047440	1054120	Saturday, February 19. Exactly. That's today. Yeah, today.
1055000	1062840	It's 9.02 a.m. The sale started two minutes ago and the DVX is already gone? Yes. But did you notice what's written here?
1063680	1066780	Where? There.
1070500	1080860	Why even start? At only 4,089, I'll tell you, people didn't wait for the sale. However, I will tell you a secret.
1086740	1097530	You, sir, deserve much better than the DVX. The SCX.
1098990	1107910	This baby does it all. And to top it off, it has the same zoom as the DVX. And that's what you want.
1108970	1111370	Come on, feel how heavy it is.
1123010	1126890	Oh, man, I hate you. I know.
1127810	1134670	Who does this to me? I've done it for you. Who do you think deserves this?
1134670	1139090	Can I help you? Yes. My son is a thief.
1139090	1147290	He stole my friend's credit card and then he came here and bought a $5,000 camera. The SCX.
1147290	1148970	The SCX?
1150750	1156210	How could you sell a 12-year-old kid a $5,000 camera with a credit card?
1156210	1158930	No, no, no, that's impossible. It's a...
1158930	1161090	Then what is this?
1166720	1168800	So what do you want me to...
1168800	1170860	I'd like you to give me back my money.
1170860	1173280	Yeah, unfortunately, all sales here are final.
1173380	1174820	What do you mean, final?
1178620	1180680	What you've done is illegal.
1180680	1181080	Lady...
1181080	1182020	Illegal!
1182180	1187240	Well, if you're so unhappy, I can always call the police. I'm sure they'll make it legal for you.
1188180	1192280	Do you see the mess you have gotten me into?
1201500	1204100	I'm so sorry.
1204100	1205420	Here, here, come on.
1205420	1208640	You good? Yeah.
1209340	1211280	Are you okay?
1211280	1213280	I'm okay, I'm okay.
1213600	1215600	Do you see what's happened?
1215600	1217440	God, what have I done to deserve this?
1217440	1220660	That's enough, lady. Enough with the screaming and hitting.
1220660	1223560	What do you care, Loomis? I can't live without my phone.
1223560	1225360	You have no right to hit your child like that.
1225440	1227460	No wonder he's dealing with a mother like you.
1227460	1228080	Hello?
1228080	1231520	Do you want to fight? Is that it? Huh? Do you want to fight?
1232340	1233140	Honey?
1233540	1236960	All right, lady. Go ahead. Slap me.
1237620	1238620	Wait, please!
1239580	1244760	But seeing someone abuse a child like this makes me want to kill them!
1244920	1249520	Listen, there is no way I can give you back your money.
1249520	1253240	The best I can do is exchange it for something that you do want.
1253240	1257720	But come hell or high water, you're going to have to give that man back his $5,000.
1258340	1259380	Great.
1261420	1266120	Good choice, sir. $5,099.99.
1266120	1269780	At that price, it's a real steal.
1270840	1272760	Thank you.
1273340	1276520	David Brown. Same name as my boss.
1276520	1277100	Really?
1277100	1278900	I want that one.
1278900	1282700	The AG Beta? Nah, that's way more expensive.
1284060	1285800	I will get you a new one.
1286240	1287780	I'll get you a bag.
1294860	1298060	Here's your new camera. Now just give me yours and it's all settled.
1298060	1300780	Look, it's completely new. It hasn't even been unwrapped.
1300780	1301920	Yeah, yeah, great.
1302220	1304240	Oh, just one more thing. Come here.
1305000	1306740	Please, come again.
1309760	1313120	Now I want you to apologize to the man for causing him all that trouble.
1313120	1313780	Look, that really...
1313780	1316220	I want to teach him a lesson. Say sorry.
1316220	1317680	Sorry for the confusion.
1317680	1318980	Oh, no, it's okay.
1318980	1319940	I'll buzz you out.
1319940	1320420	Sorry.
1321520	1323180	Apologize? For real?
1323520	1324860	I'm sorry.
1324860	1327040	This is the last time I'm going to ask you.
1327040	1327920	I'm sorry.
1328200	1329500	I'm sorry.
1333120	1334340	I'm sorry.
1334340	1336840	Yeah, yeah, that's fine. Just give me the bag.
1336880	1337700	I'm sorry.
1337700	1338340	Okay.
1338340	1339020	I'm sorry.
1339020	1341820	Okay, that's enough. Here we go again.
1342180	1344680	Okay, lady, if that's the way you want it...
1344680	1346860	Stay out of this. I'll handle it.
1346860	1348780	Don't worry, kid, I'll get you out of this.
1348780	1350380	I'm calling the police.
1351740	1353140	My phone!
1353140	1353760	What?
1353760	1354860	The door.
1355780	1356980	Stop!
1357980	1359520	It's him.
1359540	1361940	The little crook stole my phone.
1363140	1364900	Hold on a minute.
1365400	1367100	What's your phone number?
1367620	1368220	555...
1368220	1369140	555...
1369140	1369880	66...
1369880	1370660	66...
1370660	1371520	65...
1372560	1373160	65...
1377460	1378900	It's my phone.
1378900	1380940	You see? It wasn't him.
1380980	1382420	What the hell's going on?
1382420	1384820	I don't know. Things keep disappearing.
1384920	1386860	That's my credit card.
1386860	1387840	My wallet.
1387840	1389320	My wallet, too.
1389320	1391260	Oh, it's the boy!
1418740	1422220	Saturday, February 19th.
1422220	1424220	Exactly, that's today.
1424220	1424960	Yeah.
1424960	1427080	It's 9.02 a.m.
1427080	1430260	The sale started two minutes ago and the DVX is already gone.
1434580	1437160	Did you notice what's written here?
1437280	1438500	You see?
1438500	1440980	Give it back! Give it back to me, you jerk!
1455490	1457730	You're so smart!
1476170	1477010	Give it to me!
1477010	1477710	Give it to me!
1477710	1481350	Go ahead.
1483090	1484610	Allow me.
1488930	1490970	It's a real steal.
1491670	1491990	It's a real steal.
1491990	1493170	David Brown.
1493250	1494710	It's him, it's my phone.
1495430	1497510	Let me get you back.
1502430	1504060	Say sorry.
1504730	1506670	Sorry for the confusion.
1510030	1511590	Sir?
1514630	1516870	Let's get out of here.
1546690	1547910	Yes, hello?
1548750	1549710	My son!
1559480	1561080	I know that took a little bit of our time.
1561080	1563260	We only have a little bit of time left together.
1563900	1567720	But I wanted to give you kind of a concentrated element so you can see all these dinner-related
1567720	1569400	cons all kind of used together.
1570300	1572360	I thought I'd give you an opportunity for you to take a lead on this.
1572360	1574940	If you have some questions for me and we can fill that back.
1585840	1588020	These two are, if you want to come over this way.
1589120	1590000	There you go.
1590040	1593340	So maybe what you could do first is explain, what is a grifter?
1594940	1597200	Generally a grifter is a non-violent criminal.
1597200	1599760	So that expands beyond just con artists.
1599760	1606160	It expands into thieves, cat burglars, anything that they're using an element of wit or technique,
1606160	1609160	generally, is the world of grift in general.
1609320	1614020	So we had an interview once with a guy named Dr. Paul Zack.
1614020	1616860	He studies oxytocin and releases it in the brain.
1616940	1619040	And he said that he was conned once.
1619060	1625840	And after he started doing this research, he realized that con men work because they make you feel that they trust you.
1625840	1627520	Not that you trust them.
1627520	1629300	How was that done psychologically?
1629300	1636180	How was it that you make other people feel that you trust them in such a way that they're now not looking for the deception?
1636180	1637760	Like we saw in that video.
1638660	1644240	I think there's a big misnomer about liking associated with trust.
1645240	1647840	I think liking is a cherry on top.
1647840	1649280	If you like me, that's great.
1649280	1651600	But I don't really care in a con.
1651600	1654140	What I want you to do is understand me.
1654140	1657540	I want me to be transparent to you.
1657720	1664060	So the more that you think you understand my objectives, what I want, what I don't want, and you can size me up,
1664060	1669560	the more likely you are to feel that I can trust you, both in the sense of what you're doing.
1669560	1674420	But what that does, if you think about an example of a friend that you have,
1674420	1678520	you might not trust them to do something that's really important just because they're your friend.
1678520	1680780	Because you also know their mistakes and what they're capable of.
1680780	1685220	And if they're not capable, even if they're a friend and you like them a lot, you won't trust them to do the job.
1685260	1688500	On the other hand, this guy that you don't like, but you know he's very capable,
1688500	1690640	if they can get the job done, you're going to give it to him.
1690820	1693220	So, same thing with a con in a lot of ways.
1693260	1698920	It's the ability for me to give an artificial level of transparency that I'm the authority,
1698920	1701160	I'm the one who can get this job done.
1701320	1707920	And then, as part of that transparency, one of those levels is for me to put you as the lead.
1707920	1709800	And that's where I think you're referring to.
1710440	1714620	And the combatives that I've worked with, I've done some work with special forces,
1714620	1718260	and they have a phrase that they use, feeder-receiver.
1718360	1722620	So, in any kind of fight or interaction, you have the feeder of the fight, you have the receiver of the fight.
1722620	1727740	The strongest position that you could be in is to appear to be the receiver when you're actually the feeder.
1728240	1731240	So, that's what you're referring to, which is a more advanced technique.
1731320	1737380	That if I can be steering this situation, while you believe that you're the one that's in the lead,
1737380	1743440	that I trust, I need your help, that's even better, because it keeps the suspicion level way below radar.
1743840	1751000	Yeah, that's valuable. So, I think, for us, because we're all practitioners here, we like to do this either as a hobby or because we work.
1751240	1756780	So, in our classes, we teach very similar, different names, but very similar concepts,
1756780	1760680	especially when you were down here talking about body language, making people feel comfortable.
1760680	1762500	That's really valuable stuff.
1762500	1769820	But now I get close, what's the next skill I need in order to be able to take something from you without you feeling it?
1769820	1771900	Because it's more than just trust at that point.
1771900	1774440	It is. It's the reason that you're touching them.
1774580	1776740	I'm going to show you a couple of visuals on here.
1776760	1779740	This is the complex way that I think of the mind.
1781740	1785220	Let's bring this up. Let me know if this comes up for you guys.
1788840	1790420	And that should go through.
1790420	1793360	So, you have all your senses coming into one input.
1795140	1802220	But in my mind, rather than that being a specific part of the brain, that is a little security guard sitting inside the head.
1802220	1803520	I like to call him Frank.
1804380	1806160	Frank has really cool equipment.
1806160	1810060	He has the eyes, the ears, and those are a lot like cameras and audio equipment.
1810060	1815560	But he's taking all of these inputs from your perceptions and he's processing what to do with them.
1815560	1820980	What's important to know when you're going to steal something or take something from somebody or just get inside their space,
1820980	1825960	that most people misunderstand, is that perception is not the first step.
1825960	1827780	Attention is the first step.
1827780	1831040	Attention is the security fence around that person.
1831040	1835000	It's the thing that decides what perceptions are going to be dedicated to it.
1835260	1839000	So, if they're not attending to something, they can't perceive it.
1839480	1844560	But even if the cameras are pointing the right way, if you're looking at me, it doesn't mean you're going to see what I do.
1844560	1846340	You can look at it and not see.
1846340	1848460	So in this case, the security guard is looking straight at it.
1848460	1853040	But if I ask him the correct question, or something that's more important to him as priorities,
1853040	1854580	he'll turn around and look at the file.
1854580	1855940	He'll rewind the tape.
1856260	1859300	And there's an illusion that most people have that they can multitask.
1859300	1860300	They can't.
1860360	1864240	And while they're rewinding the tape, even though they're looking at something and they're interacting with you,
1864240	1868480	if they're thinking and have an interior dialogue, they can't process what's happening right now.
1868480	1871520	So that allows me, in an extreme sense, not just to take a wallet or watch,
1871520	1874380	but sometimes to take their glasses and change their vision.
1874440	1876160	And they don't realize that that's happened.
1878320	1878720	So...
1880040	1881060	Say again?
1881380	1882240	Real life example.
1882240	1883760	Real life example of stealing?
1883940	1885120	Would you guys like to see that real quick?
1885120	1885680	Yes.
1887700	1892860	I actually found myself checking my glasses and my cell phone as he was saying that.
1892860	1894880	And I want to say I'm missing my underwear.
1895160	1896140	No, just kidding.
1896260	1897820	Have you seen me work before?
1897860	1899280	Do you have anything in your pockets?
1899340	1899960	Yes.
1899960	1900180	Good.
1900180	1901300	Can you stand up for me real quick?
1902080	1903740	And you have seen me work before or not?
1904220	1904720	Okay.
1904720	1905180	Cool.
1908640	1910980	Now, the disadvantage is we don't have any real estate on stage.
1910980	1912040	But if you could stand over this way for me.
1912040	1912600	What's your name?
1913100	1913580	Greg.
1913580	1913860	Greg.
1914360	1915400	Can I check a couple things?
1915400	1917020	So you have a watch, but this is a buckle watch.
1917020	1917880	So it doesn't come off very easy.
1917880	1918980	Close your hand kind of tight.
1919060	1920540	So that wouldn't let it come off this way.
1920580	1924080	Yet when you walked past me, did you check to see where your wallet was?
1925120	1926180	Your front pocket.
1926240	1927000	This side right here.
1927000	1927660	What was in there?
1927660	1928640	The watch is gone.
1928640	1930260	Do you have anything inside your front pocket?
1931440	1931880	Yeah?
1931960	1932880	Is it still there?
1934880	1935980	Can I show you?
1935980	1936660	Now, this is odd.
1936660	1937360	A lot of you don't know.
1937360	1938400	Does this look familiar to you?
1938400	1939540	What's inside the piece?
1939540	1940320	Is that yours?
1940320	1940820	No.
1940860	1941140	No.
1941140	1941600	Okay.
1941700	1943020	Step over this way for me for a second.
1943020	1944680	You're realizing your cell phone is gone now, yes?
1945340	1946960	So those are two items.
1947320	1951000	But you can see this is much more adversarial than you ever have in a context where somebody
1951000	1952380	doesn't know who you are.
1952820	1956400	So here he knows, and he's seen videos of me working, so he knows the nature of them.
1956400	1959460	So I'm going to hold the things up when I hold them over to the side, and I can steal
1959620	1960740	a watch like this.
1961340	1962120	Here you go.
1964980	1965800	Thank you.
1974090	1978410	Thanks for asking for that, because I think it shows how the questions are important.
1978410	1980150	It's not about the technique that I use.
1980150	1981850	I mean, that's a portion of it, maybe 20%.
1981850	1984750	But 80% is the questions I asked him.
1984750	1989930	So I said, as you walk by that wallet that you had in your pocket, that's his security
1989930	1994490	guard saying, oh, jeez, am I already behind the game?
1994710	1998250	And when he switches in that interior dialogue, that's when I remove the watch.
1998250	2003510	I've already got the moves, but if I didn't say those things, if I didn't ask that question,
2003510	2006270	he would just film me unbuckling his watch, just like you would.
2006270	2011470	So it's not about a Jedi technique that I can do that I have light fingers.
2011470	2014730	It's that I'm able to get inside of his head and suppress his perceptions.
2015130	2017790	So you use psychological misdirection?
2017790	2019170	Very much so, yes.
2019730	2021630	So, Paulo, I have a quick question.
2021630	2026210	I think within the community we pride ourselves in being very vigilant and being very aware
2026210	2027410	of these kinds of things.
2027410	2031890	And I guess my question is, one, do you have any experience with security professionals
2031890	2035250	and whether or not we are, in fact, better at detecting deception?
2035250	2038950	And two, if you have any advice for us, anything that we can learn.
2038950	2040630	Be careful with your answer.
2042110	2048070	A while back, I performed at Caesar's Palace here in Las Vegas for about five years.
2048070	2051190	And a detail of Secret Service agents came through.
2051490	2054130	And I realize some of this audience knows me very well and they've heard these stories
2054130	2056250	multiple times, so sorry for being redundant.
2056550	2060830	But the Secret Service are highly trained in different ways for the protocol.
2060830	2064630	Wheels up, wheels down is often one of the phrases they'll use.
2065550	2068290	And because of the protocol and the way that they're trained,
2068290	2070770	one of the trainings that they go through is called Kim's Game,
2070770	2074350	which means keep in mind, but it's a memory system perception there.
2074350	2079110	But you still have to dedicate your cognitive resources to the task that you're doing,
2079110	2082350	which means if I'm going to spend my attention dollars on one thing,
2082350	2084390	I'm going to have an atrophy in another area.
2084390	2086410	So I just have to know where they're spending it,
2086410	2089170	and I understand that there's going to be a deficit somewhere else.
2089250	2090630	So I have to identify that.
2090630	2094090	In their case, when I would go into their space, they would square up to me,
2094090	2097070	and they would keep occupied space and wouldn't let me get close.
2097590	2100590	So I had to pretend that I wasn't interested in this room.
2100710	2102850	It would be very difficult, but I could do something to you.
2103430	2109030	And now this person just let me inside their space because I'm doing it to him, supposedly.
2109030	2114210	So I changed the game to be about him, and this agent let me inside their space to steal their things.
2115290	2119190	So if you can understand what their protocols are, you can violate past those.
2121010	2122390	It was a treasure chest.
2122390	2123590	What was that?
2124690	2126430	I mean, he didn't steal your...
2126430	2129490	I might give you a couple things very quick as far as a visual.
2129490	2133830	If you look at this, could all of you hold your right hand in the air?
2134530	2136890	Now, this is a perception test, but it's one you might not see.
2136890	2138230	It's one that we use for the military.
2139090	2143370	And I'm going to show you two photos, and there's going to be a change between those two photos.
2143470	2147110	When you see the change, just put your right hand down, and we'll know how fast it takes effect.
2147110	2151990	So we have a mixture of security professionals here, and if you haven't seen the video, you'll get to see the realtime results of this.
2154390	2156890	So this image is going to toggle back and forth between the two.
2156890	2161330	Don't say anything to your neighbor, but when you see the difference between the two photos, put your hand down.
2165720	2167600	That's kind of an answer to your question.
2169320	2178120	Now if I start giving you hints, and I tell you people have a tendency to get tunnel vision, they start looking at the windows, they start counting the shoes,
2178120	2181940	then that gives you a hint that maybe it's something less obvious than that, or more obvious.
2181940	2184880	In this case, they won't be going anywhere without this.
2186120	2188440	And once you see it, you can't help but not see it.
2191620	2198480	For the rest of you, look under the wing of the plane, and you'll see that the engine is appearing and disappearing.
2199580	2202240	And now, put your right hand up if you feel stupid.
2203680	2206300	Well you shouldn't feel stupid, what you should feel is human.
2206540	2210060	Because I myself am susceptible to the same things that I do.
2210060	2212860	But the difference is that I know that I'm susceptible to it.
2213060	2215540	When you know something, that's when you should be scared.
2215540	2222320	When you feel like you know your techniques, your protocol, and your absolute, that's when you should be scared, because that means you have no room for doubt.
2222340	2223940	And doubt is what makes us secure.
2225800	2229520	There's another example if you don't mind, I'd like to show just a little model of how I use deception.
2231040	2232820	This is how I think about deception.
2235780	2237880	Let me grab this here, it'll be easier.
2238060	2245020	If you think of everything that's happening right now, this is a micro, what we're doing right here, with me on stage, with you guys.
2245020	2247860	But, it's also how you perceive the world.
2249820	2255940	Tennessee Williams, the playwright, said that most playwrights when they write a play, they forget one character.
2256080	2258140	And that's the role of the audience.
2258160	2263420	Because when the audience views the play, the movie, whatever it may be, they forget that the audience is the detective.
2263580	2267580	Whether it's a drama, whether it's a mystery, or whether it's a comedy, they're trying to solve that.
2267580	2270120	And we're doing that every day, we're looking for patterns.
2270240	2273800	We're trying to identify what is the situation, what's happening to me right now.
2273800	2278220	So as you watch me walk from the stage and walk close to you, all of that's being processed.
2278220	2279560	It's just like a play.
2279700	2282660	So, I'm on stage, in front of you.
2282800	2285820	Right now, this is a very good example of a spotlight.
2285820	2291120	But your spotlight here, in a very real sense, is controlling most of your focus.
2291200	2296000	So the dimmer areas, you wouldn't know if I had a team working on you right now, stealing from the back of the room.
2296000	2297880	Or setting up things I might do later.
2298640	2303280	In the same way, you have a certain budget of where you're going to spend your attention in everyday life.
2303280	2308480	When it comes to deception, there's a separate reality that's happening simultaneously.
2308480	2310060	That's running on a separate channel.
2310060	2312140	In this sense, it's backstage.
2312360	2317740	It's kind of like in the Matrix, when you saw the spoon bending and you realize that there's something that's a bigger reality.
2319080	2321240	They got a peek behind the curtain.
2321680	2326060	Now, when you get a peek behind the curtain and you have some kind of suspicion, this doesn't make sense.
2326080	2330320	When that moment happens, you start going on the chase for deception.
2331300	2337440	If I'm on the other side, and I'm the one designing this deception, what I would teach you to do is to build a secondary...
2337440	2339140	Well, first, sorry, there's a director.
2339260	2342640	So, obviously, if you know there's a deception, you know somebody's trying to deceive you.
2342640	2346320	And that's a big thing to identify who is the wolf that's doing that.
2346980	2348260	This is what I would teach.
2348260	2349760	To have a secondary curtain.
2349820	2350660	A ploy.
2350800	2355540	So that if you see behind the curtain, it's the second thing that gives a plausible reason why that happened.
2355560	2358360	A great example of that is Victor Lustig.
2358360	2359680	Does anybody know who that is?
2360440	2363020	He's the man who sold the Eiffel Tower twice.
2363460	2364980	He sold the Brooklyn Bridge.
2364980	2366660	He cheated Al Capone.
2366680	2370500	He talked the Secret Service into letting him go after they had arrested him.
2371360	2375000	He was very arrogant when they first arrested him and they were going to take him to prison.
2375660	2380160	The press was interviewing him saying, how do you feel about going to this maximum security prison in San Francisco?
2380300	2382080	He said, I'm not going to get a chance to see it.
2382160	2383280	He said, but you're leaving tomorrow.
2383280	2384640	He says, I won't be here tomorrow.
2385580	2388000	And then when they go to his prison cell, he had vanished overnight.
2388840	2390200	How did he do it?
2390200	2395380	He had picked up a squeegee that nobody thought or was suspicious about.
2395600	2402440	And he made a cliche rope out of his bed sheets, climbed out of the window, and pretended to be cleaning windows as he was going down.
2402440	2405260	So whenever the security guards saw him, they thought, oh, that's just the window cleaner.
2405340	2406240	And he got away.
2408120	2410640	He was a master student of human nature.
2410700	2413600	He understood how to hide things by the radar.
2413600	2415160	And that's really the same thing.
2415160	2421700	When our mind, when that little security guard, Frank, sees things in reality, he's seeing, he's categorizing and saying, is this relevant?
2421700	2422440	Is it important?
2422440	2424440	If it's not, if it is, then I'll encode it.
2424440	2427000	If it's not, it's going to go under the radar and I'll forget about it.
2427000	2433180	And for you guys, if you can decipher what makes things relevant to the person, you can make things invisible to them.
2433180	2435060	You can make them not perceive them.
2435620	2438000	Great example of Victor Lustig using the ploy.
2438000	2444800	When he was selling the Eiffel Tower, he was selling it as junk metal during a time when the Eiffel Tower didn't have the esteem that it did before.
2444800	2446300	It was after the World's Fair.
2446720	2448580	The husband, how are we doing on time?
2448800	2450140	Finish the story and...
2450140	2450960	I'll wrap that up.
2450960	2451420	All right.
2451420	2461980	When he was selling the Eiffel Tower, the wife of the bidder was suspicious that Victor Lustig might not be who he said he was or might not be legit.
2461980	2465200	He had a variety of scrap metal workers bid on the job.
2466120	2467440	But this wife smelled a rat.
2467440	2469100	She smelled something behind the curtain.
2469440	2477160	The way he dealt with that was he told her and her husband when he had dinner, he says, listen, if you want this deal to happen, you're going to need to give me a kickback.
2477400	2479080	Now, they think he's a city official.
2479140	2481260	So she thinks that's the rat she smells.
2481400	2482320	That was his ploy.
2482320	2483560	That was his second curtain.
2484760	2486700	They hate him, but they say, all right.
2486700	2490160	They give him the kickback and they go to buy the contract.
2490740	2498940	And in that exchange, he was able to keep the contract and make more money than he had planned before because he was able to identify what she needed.
2499020	2502060	So that's a little example in the construction of the deception.
2502760	2503800	Any questions?
2504920	2507460	Guys, we want to thank Apollo for coming in, right?
2507460	2508040	Come on.
2508040	2509020	Thank you, guys.
2512660	2513380	Thank you.
2513380	2514060	Thank you.