WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:16.960 So any of you that know, of course, what we do with social engineering, it seems like a logical progression that we would get together with someone like Apollo, someone who is a master at getting close to people without them feeling uncomfortable, and then being able to do all sorts of fun stuff. 00:17.120 --> 00:25.520 And we know for the entertainment value, like take things off of you, but there's so much more value to it psychologically from a social engineering perspective, from a security perspective. 00:25.620 --> 00:31.300 Getting close to people and having them not feel uncomfortable is something that really can work for us. 00:31.600 --> 00:36.360 So Apollo was part of a crew that made a short film, right? 00:37.020 --> 00:41.280 That was never released for the general public. 00:41.320 --> 00:42.600 So he's got a clip of that. 00:42.600 --> 00:51.720 As soon as we get this projector running, we're going to open up this session with a little piece of that video so you get a sense of what we're going to be talking about here today. 00:51.780 --> 00:55.500 And then we're going to do some Q&A and some other things about the talk. 00:55.500 --> 00:58.880 The title of the talk is 60 Minutes in the Mind of a Grifter. 00:59.260 --> 01:01.620 And we'll talk about what that is, how that applies to us. 01:01.620 --> 01:03.120 I think it's 52 minutes. 01:03.200 --> 01:04.340 52 minutes? 01:04.340 --> 01:08.740 So it is now 51 and a half minutes in the mind of a grifter. 01:09.500 --> 01:10.920 We'll see how that works. 01:11.120 --> 01:13.180 It looks like our projector is now living. 01:13.980 --> 01:14.700 Awesome. 01:15.140 --> 01:16.380 A couple of things. 01:18.360 --> 01:19.540 That's natural. 01:20.660 --> 01:23.220 It looks like that's what the mirroring would work like. 01:23.840 --> 01:26.800 Everyone get a mirror and turn around and watch this screen. 01:26.900 --> 01:29.060 On this side, pull out your mirrors and watch. 01:30.560 --> 01:33.280 I want to be out here so I can chat with you a little bit closer. 01:36.680 --> 01:37.320 Suckers. 01:37.620 --> 01:41.240 This is kind of a test also because if I speak here later on, I want to see. 01:41.580 --> 01:45.260 Half of my body is cut off so for the guys in the back it might be hard for them to see. 01:45.600 --> 01:50.180 Anybody that can't see me very well, can you raise your hand just so I know who you are and I'll play to you. 01:50.600 --> 01:53.260 So we have a couple, two, three, okay, I don't care about you guys. 01:53.260 --> 01:54.580 We can just deal with these guys. 01:56.840 --> 02:04.320 The nature of a con, most of you are probably familiar with when you hear the term con artist, con stands for confidence. 02:04.660 --> 02:09.420 But the idea of the confidence is how do you get the confidence of your mark? 02:09.420 --> 02:12.620 How do you get them to be convicted about what they're doing? 02:12.620 --> 02:15.240 The difference between belief and knowing something. 02:15.240 --> 02:24.980 You can believe something, I think it might be this, but if you can get somebody to be absolutely sure that they'll doubt their assumptions, they don't have any doubt, they'll move forward. 02:24.980 --> 02:26.100 That's really what a con is. 02:26.100 --> 02:33.300 It's how to get them so concrete about what you're presenting to them that they have no doubt. 02:33.300 --> 02:36.640 What's great about that for the social engineering is there's a lot of overlap. 02:36.700 --> 02:41.920 The social engineering is trying to take that into a science versus something that's been based on intuition in the past. 02:43.600 --> 02:45.640 I don't even know if I can add anything to that. 02:45.640 --> 02:46.940 That might make me cry. 02:48.220 --> 02:54.500 That's exactly, you guys know, how many people here, I always hate when I ask this question, because then I get one hand and I feel stupid. 02:54.500 --> 02:56.180 How many people here listen to the podcast? 02:57.020 --> 02:58.360 Oh, good, more than one. 02:58.360 --> 02:59.420 There's like five of you. 02:59.420 --> 03:01.860 Okay, so you know what we do on the show, right? 03:01.860 --> 03:08.220 Every month we're trying to analyze psychologically the principles behind how bad guys get to do the things that they do. 03:08.220 --> 03:13.600 And that's why this is such an important talk, because it's not just intuition, it's not just sleight of hand, it's not a magic trick. 03:13.600 --> 03:19.500 It's actually understanding what happens up here when you do the things that Apollo does and why it works. 03:19.540 --> 03:25.220 If we can understand that, then we can duplicate it and we can also defend against it since we are supposed to be the good guys. 03:25.340 --> 03:32.340 So this is really a valuable lesson for all of us here, especially those of us that do this for a living and have to defend networks. 03:32.520 --> 03:34.640 If you don't, you still got to defend your family. 03:35.040 --> 03:38.220 And the last 18 months, guys, what's been going on? 03:38.240 --> 03:39.220 It's like non‑stop, right? 03:39.220 --> 03:39.700 Every day is another... 03:39.700 --> 03:42.700 It's set up for reverse projection right now. 03:45.660 --> 03:47.000 I'm going to say three. 03:48.100 --> 03:50.680 So it's just the reverse projecting set up right now. 03:52.120 --> 03:53.320 Can I make a suggestion? 03:53.320 --> 03:54.660 Do you mind if I borrow this mic? 03:54.660 --> 03:55.560 I do not mind. 03:56.600 --> 04:00.440 This was actually supposed to be a Q&A, so the big part of that is you guys. 04:00.560 --> 04:03.560 So is there anybody here who has any questions for me that might be familiar? 04:03.640 --> 04:07.340 And as you notice, we're kind of skipping past any kind of background on what I do. 04:07.340 --> 04:10.720 You've heard that apparently I steal things or I run cons. 04:10.840 --> 04:15.220 But we can ask some questions now and kind of do that while we give some time for those guys. 04:16.280 --> 04:22.640 Hey, Apollo, I wonder how you break people's psychological space without them getting super suspicious. 04:22.640 --> 04:27.520 Or is it just all a matter of redirecting that suspicion elsewhere once you're in there? 04:27.520 --> 04:32.300 Because you're right, you're touching people, you're right up against people you don't even know and that don't know you. 04:32.300 --> 04:34.780 That changes based on context. 04:35.240 --> 04:44.780 So when I perform and I'm doing a show, I oftentimes, when you've seen videos of me, I use something like a bit of magic or I might use something else that allows me to get inside that space. 04:44.780 --> 04:49.520 But when you interact with someone, there are different zones. 04:49.520 --> 04:50.140 Edward T. 04:50.140 --> 04:52.720 Hall wrote a great book on this called Hidden Dimension. 04:53.080 --> 04:55.480 He coined the term proxemics. 04:55.480 --> 04:58.040 Now parapersonal space is often what's referred to. 04:58.040 --> 04:59.700 Would you mind standing for me for a second? 05:01.300 --> 05:02.500 Read it this way. 05:03.060 --> 05:04.180 I saw the big flinch. 05:04.880 --> 05:07.960 Go ahead and turn straight toward me so we can just see you face to face. 05:08.100 --> 05:12.740 So as I walk closer to him, you have your social space that's in a larger area. 05:12.740 --> 05:16.300 You have your personal space, which is a little bit... then you have an intimate space. 05:16.740 --> 05:27.140 And the difference between the intimate and the personal is you can almost see, I mean, here he was actually kind of exaggerating it with straightening right up and then going back to shifting his center of body weight. 05:27.480 --> 05:36.580 But if I want to get into those, if you think of it like paying a toll, like you're on a bridge, I'm paying a toll to bypass this one, to bypass this one, to get inside that space. 05:36.580 --> 05:41.100 And the way I pay that toll is making a logical excuse that's natural to the environment. 05:41.400 --> 05:46.880 So a lot of times when I'm performing, I have that through my performing persona to get in and speak to him. 05:46.880 --> 05:49.320 But on the street they have to come in with other reasons. 05:49.380 --> 05:54.380 So it may be assisting you with asking a map or it might be something as simple as asking you for the time. 05:54.400 --> 05:57.260 But you notice here by turning I'm relaxing him a lot more. 05:57.340 --> 06:01.240 Now, the space that he has is shaped like an egg. 06:01.560 --> 06:04.400 It's larger, not just yours personally, everybody's is. 06:05.000 --> 06:07.180 It wasn't a personal thing, man. 06:07.700 --> 06:10.760 So it comes out like an oval here in the space. 06:10.760 --> 06:13.540 It's smaller on the sides and then in the back. 06:14.100 --> 06:16.480 And to get into that, that means I can get inside. 06:16.480 --> 06:19.840 It's much more comfortable for him, which is you can see kind of where we're defaulting to. 06:19.980 --> 06:21.760 But go ahead and face straight up to me again. 06:22.020 --> 06:25.160 Now, watch, as I walk towards the space, I'm at it. 06:25.460 --> 06:30.940 Now, I can make him much more comfortable simply by breaking eye contact and stepping inside of his space. 06:31.500 --> 06:32.660 On to the side. 06:32.660 --> 06:37.220 But if I keep eye contact as I walk into his space, it's a lot more tense for him. 06:37.480 --> 06:38.900 I wish you guys could see what I see. 06:38.900 --> 06:40.460 It's a little bit more bright. 06:40.520 --> 06:40.940 All right. 06:40.940 --> 06:48.720 But same thing, if I don't want him to focus on something I'm doing here, I can bring my face up and I'll pull his attention up like I just did there. 06:49.000 --> 06:50.440 Just because I'm in that zone. 06:50.640 --> 07:02.180 Now, imagine one of the current problems you would have is if you wanted to try some new RFID reader because you're inside of a space and you wanted to have a rational way to how do I get close to his badge? 07:02.260 --> 07:07.760 In this case, what would be an excuse for why you can come inside and get close to his badge with an RFID reader? 07:12.600 --> 07:16.080 Well, to have a closer look, see what it says, squid? 07:16.880 --> 07:19.740 I definitely remember you, though, if you have a closer look. 07:20.220 --> 07:22.880 And on the street they call that kissing the dog. 07:23.080 --> 07:27.260 So kissing the dog means I spent a lot of time with him and he remembers my face. 07:27.260 --> 07:31.340 Oh, you mean the guy that was looking at my badge just came up to me in the coffee shop. 07:31.340 --> 07:32.860 So context means a lot. 07:32.860 --> 07:35.800 So here it would make sense that you could look at the badge. 07:36.240 --> 07:38.040 So you might say that's interesting. 07:38.040 --> 07:43.660 But if I wanted to be under the radar and have him not remember that, I might use something else. 07:43.660 --> 07:50.880 If I'm serving hors d'oeuvres, if I'm holding something nearby, or I might ask somebody else a question, have my backpack behind me. 07:51.000 --> 07:53.240 And now this makes it a lot lower. 07:53.240 --> 08:00.380 Or if I'm holding something else that's a tray, I ask him if he wants something, have it underneath the tray or have it underneath a stack of books. 08:01.120 --> 08:02.720 Sorry, could you hold this for me? 08:02.720 --> 08:09.020 Giving him something to hold on to, he's holding it right in front of his badge while I'm doing something over here and I just say thank you very much. 08:09.240 --> 08:10.860 But I don't ask his permission, you notice this. 08:10.860 --> 08:12.800 I might just say hold on to this for me. 08:12.800 --> 08:14.900 Or just here and do this. 08:14.940 --> 08:17.220 And then afterwards I apologize for why I was doing it. 08:17.220 --> 08:20.340 So those are some different ways to bypass to get inside of space. 08:20.620 --> 08:26.580 Obviously depends on a kind of a recipe of context mixed with plausibility. 08:28.360 --> 08:31.560 We're still ‑‑ that one shot the dust on the projector. 08:32.260 --> 08:34.720 Did we do a call of death tone on the projector? 08:36.160 --> 08:38.460 So one other question? 08:38.580 --> 08:41.060 No, we can do questions or we can also play on the side. 08:41.060 --> 08:43.180 But I'm feeling like for ‑‑ thank you, man. 08:43.180 --> 08:44.460 By the way, just a round of applause. 08:44.460 --> 08:44.980 Thank you, man. 08:44.980 --> 08:45.720 You're a good sport. 08:45.720 --> 08:46.520 I appreciate that. 08:49.580 --> 08:54.620 Out of the folks that we have here, quite a few of you can't see this screen at all, can we? 08:55.920 --> 08:57.040 You can't see this screen? 08:58.680 --> 08:59.660 You can't see it? 09:00.380 --> 09:05.360 Just for the first few rows that can't, there's a bunch of seats over here if you want to move over. 09:05.420 --> 09:07.700 And then for the rows that can see it, you can stay. 09:07.940 --> 09:09.940 But there's a bunch of seats and we can actually start. 09:09.940 --> 09:12.020 If you want to come over to the front row. 09:12.020 --> 09:14.340 Come on, Christina, Michael, come on. 09:14.480 --> 09:15.340 It's okay. 09:16.380 --> 09:20.220 I would love for you guys to ‑‑ I have visuals to show you on this. 09:20.520 --> 09:25.680 But obviously speaking about it, I'm worried that some of you guys can't see for the context of what we're saying. 09:26.180 --> 09:27.320 Other questions? 09:27.640 --> 09:29.180 Anybody with a hand right here? 09:30.220 --> 09:31.120 That's right. 09:38.410 --> 09:43.890 So assuming we'd like to learn more about the techniques and what you're doing, nothing malicious, of course. 09:45.310 --> 09:48.950 What resources do you have or can we find online? 09:49.350 --> 09:50.910 What resources do I have? 09:51.490 --> 09:56.890 The only thing that's coming up right now, I did a TED talk about a month and a half ago at TED Global. 09:56.950 --> 09:59.310 It's coming up in a week and a half, two weeks. 10:00.390 --> 10:03.750 Some of what I was going to show there, I was going to show here as well on visuals. 10:04.250 --> 10:08.110 But as far as materials, I can point you to things if you'd like to. 10:08.190 --> 10:11.250 That book I mentioned, Hidden Dimension, is a great resource. 10:11.250 --> 10:20.710 If you're interested in a lot of the work that I do is taking advantage of false assumptions, fallacies, cognitive biases and heuristics in general, mental shortcuts. 10:21.390 --> 10:32.850 If you are interested in reading about some of that, besides any book on critical thinking that jumps into fallacies, there's a great book by Daniel Kahneman called Thinking, Fast and Slow. 10:33.170 --> 10:36.670 And it talks about the idea of two systems, how our minds work. 10:36.670 --> 10:41.890 And most of us, especially in this group, a lot of us would probably pride ourselves on being critical thinkers, wouldn't you say? 10:42.650 --> 10:48.890 That we don't get affected, we try to keep our head inside of logic versus stepping out and being ruled by emotion. 10:49.150 --> 10:53.890 His book talks a lot about how we automate certain tasks because otherwise we would go insane. 10:53.890 --> 11:01.670 If we try and we react faster through instincts, how we can quickly respond to something because we've automated that skill set. 11:01.850 --> 11:11.530 And the fault with that is when you've automated that skill set, you're subject to biases and responses and shortcuts that you might not have been aware of. 11:11.530 --> 11:14.850 Which is great for what we're trying to do here. 11:14.850 --> 11:20.630 Because if I can identify what you've automated, I know that somewhere along those lines you've made assumptions. 11:20.630 --> 11:23.910 And those assumptions are my building block for designing a deception. 11:25.050 --> 11:26.510 Any other questions? 11:26.510 --> 11:26.510 I'm 11:30.570 --> 11:32.970 going to run. 11:34.490 --> 11:35.450 Keep your hand up. 11:35.450 --> 11:36.250 Where were you? 11:36.270 --> 11:37.310 There you are. 11:38.170 --> 11:39.090 Hello. 11:39.110 --> 11:45.450 Does humor can somehow help you getting closer to people while keeping them comfortable? 11:45.850 --> 11:46.190 Yeah. 11:46.190 --> 11:48.750 Humor is amazing because it's so hard to fake. 11:50.330 --> 11:53.950 I used to use that for drawing crowds in a trade show environment. 11:55.350 --> 11:57.570 Applause you can kind of get. 11:57.570 --> 11:59.910 But humor, people wonder would I laugh at that? 12:00.190 --> 12:04.190 And so it's something that you think is an authentic response. 12:04.190 --> 12:11.810 So if you can artificially laugh and it seems very genuine inside of a situation, it's very engaging as far as that context. 12:11.810 --> 12:12.590 I'll give you an example. 12:12.590 --> 12:15.190 A friend of mine used to run a con called The Drawer. 12:15.510 --> 12:22.530 And he would use this for selling either guns or a drug paraphernalia. 12:23.050 --> 12:25.750 And it would be set up in an old motel. 12:25.770 --> 12:27.150 He'd be working with a partner. 12:27.490 --> 12:29.210 Sorry, is my mic too quiet for you guys? 12:29.210 --> 12:30.090 Can you see okay? 12:31.790 --> 12:39.070 And in this context, his partner would be dressed in a robe, was a very gregarious guy, and his main ability was making people laugh. 12:39.250 --> 12:41.610 They seemed very likable, like some of my friends here. 12:42.030 --> 12:48.050 And when they would come to do a purchase at the motel, they would arrive apparently early. 12:48.050 --> 12:53.730 They'd knock on the door, he answers, he's in his robe, all of his bath materials are laid out on the bed. 12:53.850 --> 12:56.350 And he'd say, I'm sorry, my partners aren't here right now. 12:56.350 --> 12:57.630 You guys are a little bit early. 12:58.170 --> 13:02.070 But he lets the guys who are purchasing the guns or the drugs to come in the door. 13:02.370 --> 13:06.830 When they come in the door, he has a conversation with them, says, do you have the cash, everything? 13:06.830 --> 13:09.450 I don't want to count, we'll count it later, just stick it in the drawer. 13:09.650 --> 13:18.030 They stick it in the drawer of the dresser, he chats with them for a bit, says, listen, I like you guys, how about I'll just go and get the stuff and I'll bring it in, are we cool? 13:18.370 --> 13:19.350 They say yes. 13:19.510 --> 13:25.030 He steps out of the room, leaves them in there with their money, with all this stuff, his luggage, everything. 13:25.630 --> 13:28.350 Goes to get the stuff from another room, from his partner's room. 13:28.630 --> 13:30.030 And he never comes back. 13:30.870 --> 13:36.530 At some point, they wonder why he's coming back, so finally they decide, you know, let's just take our stuff and go. 13:36.530 --> 13:37.890 They open the drawer, it's empty. 13:39.650 --> 13:48.690 What my friend had done was he was in the room next door, they had opened up, cut a hole in the wall, cut a hole in the back of the dresser and pulled everything from inside the drawer and taken it out. 13:49.350 --> 13:54.610 They said the ability of that guy with his humor was his main thing that made them feel at ease. 13:55.210 --> 13:58.810 He's in his robe, his luggage is here, but when they open the luggage, it's empty. 13:59.010 --> 14:04.350 When they look at the stuff, it's just throw away dollar stuff they could have bought and under his robe were his clothes when he left. 14:04.410 --> 14:06.510 That was one of the cons they used to run. 14:06.830 --> 14:07.810 Any other questions? 14:15.630 --> 14:21.550 This might be an oddball question, but what do you think about shows like The Mentalist and the character Patrick Jane? 14:22.830 --> 14:25.950 The Mentalist is a very cool area of study. 14:25.990 --> 14:30.270 For myself, my wife is a mentalist. 14:30.950 --> 14:41.950 If any of you have seen this movie recently, Now You See Me, they have the archetypes there in magic, illusionist, sleight of hand artist, mentalist. 14:41.950 --> 14:43.610 It is a different category. 14:43.630 --> 14:45.770 It's psychological manipulations. 14:46.030 --> 14:49.010 And there's this interesting thing, a mentalist and a psychic. 14:49.890 --> 14:50.490 Awesome. 14:50.490 --> 14:51.390 You guys are great. 14:51.390 --> 14:52.890 Thank you so much for doing that. 14:54.650 --> 14:56.910 Mentalist and psychic are a flip of a switch. 14:56.910 --> 15:08.230 It's basically psychic is someone who says that they can tell you, or especially a medium, someone who talks to the dead, is someone who says they have these abilities, but that they came from some supernatural way. 15:08.230 --> 15:13.410 A mentalist is someone who ethically says I can do these things, but it's a skill that I've learned. 15:13.730 --> 15:17.350 And they are using some kind of trickery to create the perception that they're doing that. 15:17.350 --> 15:25.810 In that character on the mentalist there, he has the ability of cold reading, hot reading, profiling and those tools that he's using to help the police. 15:25.810 --> 15:30.130 And those things are very real and that's very personal to my life with some of the things I work on. 15:31.050 --> 15:31.910 Are we ready to begin? 15:31.910 --> 15:33.130 We are ready to begin. 15:33.290 --> 15:35.350 We can hold some questions after maybe. 15:35.390 --> 15:37.510 Let's get started with the real show. 15:38.250 --> 15:39.830 So just a little setup on this. 15:39.830 --> 15:42.830 This is a short film I worked on for a company in Montreal. 15:42.830 --> 15:50.070 It's about ten minutes long, but it lets you see a little con and a little bit of stealing all happen. 15:50.470 --> 15:54.370 I worked with them to try to make it a con that would happen in ten minutes. 15:54.530 --> 15:59.110 So make your assumptions about where it's going to go and let's see how well it works. 16:03.920 --> 16:07.220 Let's make sure that this plays up on both screens for you as well. 16:21.030 --> 16:23.290 It's waiting for the DVD to load. 16:23.690 --> 16:24.430 And that's all on me. 16:24.430 --> 16:25.390 That's not you guys. 16:34.640 --> 16:38.500 It's one of those things that happens when you really look for something and... 16:40.200 --> 16:40.680 Okay. 16:40.680 --> 16:43.060 And we need to pull that over to the other screen for you. 16:47.960 --> 16:49.060 There you go. 16:51.340 --> 16:52.760 That's a fun game. 16:54.040 --> 16:55.000 And play. 17:03.760 --> 17:04.720 No, no, no. 17:04.720 --> 17:05.740 That's the one I want. 17:05.740 --> 17:08.880 The automatic zoom item. 17:08.880 --> 17:11.420 Unfortunately, they're all gone. 17:11.420 --> 17:12.920 What do you mean all gone? 17:12.920 --> 17:13.720 Gone. 17:13.720 --> 17:14.420 Gone. 17:14.420 --> 17:14.980 Bye-bye. 17:14.980 --> 17:15.980 No more. 17:15.980 --> 17:17.180 It's the magazine. 17:17.180 --> 17:19.060 Everything must go. 17:23.160 --> 17:25.520 What does it say here? 17:27.440 --> 17:30.720 Saturday, February 19. 17:30.720 --> 17:31.520 Exactly. 17:31.520 --> 17:32.760 That's today. 17:32.760 --> 17:34.120 Yeah, today. 17:35.000 --> 17:37.080 It's 9.02 a.m. 17:37.080 --> 17:39.880 The sale started two minutes ago and the DVX is already gone? 17:39.880 --> 17:40.580 Yes. 17:40.580 --> 17:42.840 But did you notice what's written here? 17:43.680 --> 17:44.720 Where? 17:45.420 --> 17:46.780 There. 17:50.500 --> 17:53.120 Why even start? 17:53.120 --> 17:56.940 At only 4,089, I'll tell you, people didn't wait for the sale. 17:57.420 --> 18:00.860 However, I will tell you a secret. 18:06.740 --> 18:11.180 You, sir, deserve much better than the DVX. 18:14.230 --> 18:17.530 The SCX. 18:18.990 --> 18:21.730 This baby does it all. 18:21.870 --> 18:26.010 And to top it off, it has the same zoom as the DVX. 18:26.030 --> 18:27.910 And that's what you want. 18:28.970 --> 18:31.370 Come on, feel how heavy it is. 18:43.010 --> 18:45.830 Oh, man, I hate you. 18:45.830 --> 18:46.890 I know. 18:47.810 --> 18:49.610 Who does this to me? 18:50.870 --> 18:52.870 I've done it for you. 18:52.910 --> 18:54.670 Who do you think deserves this? 18:54.670 --> 18:55.790 Can I help you? 18:55.790 --> 18:56.710 Yes. 18:56.890 --> 18:59.090 My son is a thief. 18:59.090 --> 19:04.850 He stole my friend's credit card and then he came here and bought a $5,000 camera. 19:04.910 --> 19:07.290 The SCX. 19:07.290 --> 19:08.970 The SCX? 19:10.750 --> 19:16.210 How could you sell a 12-year-old kid a $5,000 camera with a credit card? 19:16.210 --> 19:18.430 No, no, no, that's impossible. 19:18.430 --> 19:18.930 It's a... 19:18.930 --> 19:21.090 Then what is this? 19:26.720 --> 19:28.800 So what do you want me to... 19:28.800 --> 19:30.860 I'd like you to give me back my money. 19:30.860 --> 19:33.280 Yeah, unfortunately, all sales here are final. 19:33.380 --> 19:34.820 What do you mean, final? 19:38.620 --> 19:40.680 What you've done is illegal. 19:40.680 --> 19:41.080 Lady... 19:41.080 --> 19:42.020 Illegal! 19:42.180 --> 19:44.760 Well, if you're so unhappy, I can always call the police. 19:44.760 --> 19:47.240 I'm sure they'll make it legal for you. 19:48.180 --> 19:52.280 Do you see the mess you have gotten me into? 20:01.500 --> 20:04.100 I'm so sorry. 20:04.100 --> 20:05.420 Here, here, come on. 20:05.420 --> 20:07.680 You good? 20:07.680 --> 20:08.640 Yeah. 20:09.340 --> 20:11.280 Are you okay? 20:11.280 --> 20:13.280 I'm okay, I'm okay. 20:13.600 --> 20:15.600 Do you see what's happened? 20:15.600 --> 20:17.440 God, what have I done to deserve this? 20:17.440 --> 20:18.500 That's enough, lady. 20:18.700 --> 20:20.660 Enough with the screaming and hitting. 20:20.660 --> 20:22.100 What do you care, Loomis? 20:22.100 --> 20:23.560 I can't live without my phone. 20:23.560 --> 20:25.360 You have no right to hit your child like that. 20:25.440 --> 20:27.460 No wonder he's dealing with a mother like you. 20:27.460 --> 20:28.080 Hello? 20:28.080 --> 20:28.880 Do you want to fight? 20:28.880 --> 20:29.800 Is that it? 20:29.820 --> 20:30.240 Huh? 20:30.240 --> 20:31.520 Do you want to fight? 20:32.340 --> 20:33.140 Honey? 20:33.540 --> 20:34.700 All right, lady. 20:34.860 --> 20:35.800 Go ahead. 20:35.900 --> 20:36.960 Slap me. 20:37.620 --> 20:38.620 Wait, please! 20:39.580 --> 20:44.760 But seeing someone abuse a child like this makes me want to kill them! 20:44.920 --> 20:49.520 Listen, there is no way I can give you back your money. 20:49.520 --> 20:53.240 The best I can do is exchange it for something that you do want. 20:53.240 --> 20:57.720 But come hell or high water, you're going to have to give that man back his $5,000. 20:58.340 --> 20:59.380 Great. 21:01.420 --> 21:03.260 Good choice, sir. 21:03.260 --> 21:06.120 $5,099.99. 21:06.120 --> 21:09.780 At that price, it's a real steal. 21:10.840 --> 21:12.760 Thank you. 21:13.340 --> 21:14.980 David Brown. 21:14.980 --> 21:16.520 Same name as my boss. 21:16.520 --> 21:17.100 Really? 21:17.100 --> 21:18.900 I want that one. 21:18.900 --> 21:20.120 The AG Beta? 21:20.120 --> 21:22.700 Nah, that's way more expensive. 21:24.060 --> 21:25.800 I will get you a new one. 21:26.240 --> 21:27.780 I'll get you a bag. 21:34.860 --> 21:36.200 Here's your new camera. 21:36.200 --> 21:38.060 Now just give me yours and it's all settled. 21:38.060 --> 21:39.520 Look, it's completely new. 21:39.520 --> 21:40.780 It hasn't even been unwrapped. 21:40.780 --> 21:41.920 Yeah, yeah, great. 21:42.220 --> 21:43.580 Oh, just one more thing. 21:43.580 --> 21:44.240 Come here. 21:45.000 --> 21:46.740 Please, come again. 21:49.760 --> 21:53.120 Now I want you to apologize to the man for causing him all that trouble. 21:53.120 --> 21:53.780 Look, that really... 21:53.780 --> 21:55.000 I want to teach him a lesson. 21:55.220 --> 21:56.220 Say sorry. 21:56.220 --> 21:57.680 Sorry for the confusion. 21:57.680 --> 21:58.980 Oh, no, it's okay. 21:58.980 --> 21:59.940 I'll buzz you out. 21:59.940 --> 22:00.420 Sorry . 22:01.520 --> 22:02.120 Apologize? 22:02.120 --> 22:03.180 For real? 22:03.520 --> 22:04.860 I'm sorry. 22:04.860 --> 22:07.040 This is the last time I'm going to ask you. 22:07.040 --> 22:07.920 I'm sorry. 22:08.200 --> 22:09.500 I'm sorry. 22:13.120 --> 22:14.340 I'm sorry. 22:14.340 --> 22:15.200 Yeah, yeah, that's fine. 22:15.200 --> 22:16.840 Just give me the bag. 22:16.880 --> 22:17.700 I'm sorry. 22:17.700 --> 22:18.340 Okay. 22:18.340 --> 22:19.020 I'm sorry. 22:19.020 --> 22:20.080 Okay, that's enough. 22:20.080 --> 22:21.820 Here we go again. 22:22.180 --> 22:24.680 Okay, lady, if that's the way you want it... 22:24.680 --> 22:25.980 Stay out of this. 22:25.980 --> 22:26.860 I'll handle it. 22:26.860 --> 22:28.780 Don't worry, kid, I'll get you out of this. 22:28.780 --> 22:30.380 I'm calling the police. 22:31.740 --> 22:33.140 My phone! 22:33.140 --> 22:33.760 What? 22:33.760 --> 22:34.860 The door. 22:35.780 --> 22:36.980 Stop! 22:37.980 --> 22:39.520 It's him. 22:39.540 --> 22:41.940 The little crook stole my phone. 22:43.140 --> 22:44.900 Hold on a minute. 22:45.400 --> 22:47.100 What's your phone number? 22:47.620 --> 22:48.220 555... 22:48.220 --> 22:49.140 555... 22:49.140 --> 22:49.880 66... 22:49.880 --> 22:50.660 66... 22:50.660 --> 22:51.520 65... 22:52.560 --> 22:53.160 65... 22:57.460 --> 22:58.900 It's my phone. 22:58.900 --> 22:59.560 You see? 22:59.560 --> 23:00.940 It wasn't him. 23:00.980 --> 23:02.420 What the hell's going on? 23:02.420 --> 23:03.380 I don't know. 23:03.380 --> 23:04.820 Things keep disappearing. 23:04.920 --> 23:06.860 That's my credit card. 23:06.860 --> 23:07.840 My wallet. 23:07.840 --> 23:09.320 My wallet, too. 23:09.320 --> 23:11.260 Oh, it's the boy! 23:38.740 --> 23:42.220 Saturday, February 19th. 23:42.220 --> 23:44.220 Exactly, that's today. 23:44.220 --> 23:44.960 Yeah. 23:44.960 --> 23:47.080 It's 9.02 a.m. 23:47.080 --> 23:50.260 The sale started two minutes ago and the DVX is already gone. 23:54.580 --> 23:57.160 Did you notice what's written here? 23:57.280 --> 23:58.500 You see? 23:58.500 --> 23:59.100 Give it back! 23:59.100 --> 24:00.980 Give it back to me, you jerk! 24:15.490 --> 24:17.730 You're so smart! 24:36.170 --> 24:37.010 Give it to me! 24:37.010 --> 24:37.710 Give it to me! 24:37.710 --> 24:41.350 Go ahead. 24:43.090 --> 24:44.610 Allow me. 24:48.930 --> 24:50.970 It's a real steal. 24:51.670 --> 24:51.990 It's a real steal. 24:51.990 --> 24:53.170 David Brown. 24:53.250 --> 24:54.710 It's him, it's my phone. 24:55.430 --> 24:57.510 Let me get you back. 25:02.430 --> 25:04.060 Say sorry. 25:04.730 --> 25:06.670 Sorry for the confusion. 25:10.030 --> 25:11.590 Sir? 25:14.630 --> 25:16.870 Let's get out of here. 25:46.690 --> 25:47.910 Yes, hello? 25:48.750 --> 25:49.710 My son! 25:59.480 --> 26:01.080 I know that took a little bit of our time. 26:01.080 --> 26:03.260 We only have a little bit of time left together. 26:03.900 --> 26:09.400 But I wanted to give you kind of a concentrated element so you can see all these dinner-related cons all kind of used together. 26:10.300 --> 26:12.360 I thought I'd give you an opportunity for you to take a lead on this. 26:12.360 --> 26:14.940 If you have some questions for me and we can fill that back. 26:25.840 --> 26:28.020 These two are, if you want to come over this way. 26:29.120 --> 26:30.000 There you go. 26:30.040 --> 26:33.340 So maybe what you could do first is explain, what is a grifter? 26:34.940 --> 26:37.200 Generally a grifter is a non-violent criminal. 26:37.200 --> 26:39.760 So that expands beyond just con artists. 26:39.760 --> 26:49.160 It expands into thieves, cat burglars, anything that they're using an element of wit or technique, generally, is the world of grift in general. 26:49.320 --> 26:53.420 So we had an interview once with a guy named Dr. 26:53.420 --> 26:54.020 Paul Zack. 26:54.020 --> 26:56.860 He studies oxytocin and releases it in the brain. 26:56.940 --> 26:59.040 And he said that he was conned once. 26:59.060 --> 27:05.840 And after he started doing this research, he realized that con men work because they make you feel that they trust you. 27:05.840 --> 27:07.520 Not that you trust them. 27:07.520 --> 27:09.300 How was that done psychologically? 27:09.300 --> 27:16.180 How was it that you make other people feel that you trust them in such a way that they're now not looking for the deception? 27:16.180 --> 27:17.760 Like we saw in that video. 27:18.660 --> 27:24.240 I think there's a big misnomer about liking associated with trust. 27:25.240 --> 27:27.840 I think liking is a cherry on top. 27:27.840 --> 27:29.280 If you like me, that's great. 27:29.280 --> 27:31.600 But I don't really care in a con. 27:31.600 --> 27:34.140 What I want you to do is understand me. 27:34.140 --> 27:37.540 I want me to be transparent to you. 27:37.720 --> 27:49.560 So the more that you think you understand my objectives, what I want, what I don't want, and you can size me up, the more likely you are to feel that I can trust you, both in the sense of what you're doing. 27:49.560 --> 27:58.520 But what that does, if you think about an example of a friend that you have, you might not trust them to do something that's really important just because they're your friend. 27:58.520 --> 28:00.780 Because you also know their mistakes and what they're capable of. 28:00.780 --> 28:05.220 And if they're not capable, even if they're a friend and you like them a lot, you won't trust them to do the job. 28:05.260 --> 28:10.640 On the other hand, this guy that you don't like, but you know he's very capable, if they can get the job done, you're going to give it to him. 28:10.820 --> 28:13.220 So, same thing with a con in a lot of ways. 28:13.260 --> 28:21.160 It's the ability for me to give an artificial level of transparency that I'm the authority, I'm the one who can get this job done. 28:21.320 --> 28:27.920 And then, as part of that transparency, one of those levels is for me to put you as the lead. 28:27.920 --> 28:29.800 And that's where I think you're referring to. 28:30.440 --> 28:38.260 And the combatives that I've worked with, I've done some work with special forces, and they have a phrase that they use, feeder-receiver. 28:38.360 --> 28:42.620 So, in any kind of fight or interaction, you have the feeder of the fight, you have the receiver of the fight. 28:42.620 --> 28:47.740 The strongest position that you could be in is to appear to be the receiver when you're actually the feeder. 28:48.240 --> 28:51.240 So, that's what you're referring to, which is a more advanced technique. 28:51.320 --> 29:03.440 That if I can be steering this situation, while you believe that you're the one that's in the lead, that I trust, I need your help, that's even better, because it keeps the suspicion level way below radar. 29:03.840 --> 29:05.000 Yeah, that's valuable. 29:05.000 --> 29:11.000 So, I think, for us, because we're all practitioners here, we like to do this either as a hobby or because we work. 29:11.240 --> 29:20.680 So, in our classes, we teach very similar, different names, but very similar concepts, especially when you were down here talking about body language, making people feel comfortable. 29:20.680 --> 29:22.500 That's really valuable stuff. 29:22.500 --> 29:29.820 But now I get close, what's the next skill I need in order to be able to take something from you without you feeling it? 29:29.820 --> 29:31.900 Because it's more than just trust at that point. 29:31.900 --> 29:32.700 It is. 29:32.700 --> 29:34.440 It's the reason that you're touching them. 29:34.580 --> 29:36.740 I'm going to show you a couple of visuals on here. 29:36.760 --> 29:39.740 This is the complex way that I think of the mind. 29:41.740 --> 29:43.340 Let's bring this up. 29:43.340 --> 29:45.220 Let me know if this comes up for you guys. 29:48.840 --> 29:50.420 And that should go through. 29:50.420 --> 29:53.360 So, you have all your senses coming into one input. 29:55.140 --> 30:02.220 But in my mind, rather than that being a specific part of the brain, that is a little security guard sitting inside the head. 30:02.220 --> 30:03.520 I like to call him Frank. 30:04.380 --> 30:06.160 Frank has really cool equipment. 30:06.160 --> 30:10.060 He has the eyes, the ears, and those are a lot like cameras and audio equipment. 30:10.060 --> 30:15.560 But he's taking all of these inputs from your perceptions and he's processing what to do with them. 30:15.560 --> 30:25.960 What's important to know when you're going to steal something or take something from somebody or just get inside their space, that most people misunderstand, is that perception is not the first step. 30:25.960 --> 30:27.780 Attention is the first step. 30:27.780 --> 30:31.040 Attention is the security fence around that person. 30:31.040 --> 30:35.000 It's the thing that decides what perceptions are going to be dedicated to it. 30:35.260 --> 30:39.000 So, if they're not attending to something, they can't perceive it. 30:39.480 --> 30:44.560 But even if the cameras are pointing the right way, if you're looking at me, it doesn't mean you're going to see what I do. 30:44.560 --> 30:46.340 You can look at it and not see. 30:46.340 --> 30:48.460 So in this case, the security guard is looking straight at it. 30:48.460 --> 30:54.580 But if I ask him the correct question, or something that's more important to him as priorities, he'll turn around and look at the file. 30:54.580 --> 30:55.940 He'll rewind the tape. 30:56.260 --> 30:59.300 And there's an illusion that most people have that they can multitask. 30:59.300 --> 31:00.300 They can't. 31:00.360 --> 31:08.480 And while they're rewinding the tape, even though they're looking at something and they're interacting with you, if they're thinking and have an interior dialogue, they can't process what's happening right now. 31:08.480 --> 31:14.380 So that allows me, in an extreme sense, not just to take a wallet or watch, but sometimes to take their glasses and change their vision. 31:14.440 --> 31:16.160 And they don't realize that that's happened. 31:18.320 --> 31:18.720 So... 31:20.040 --> 31:21.060 Say again? 31:21.380 --> 31:22.240 Real life example. 31:22.240 --> 31:23.760 Real life example of stealing? 31:23.940 --> 31:25.120 Would you guys like to see that real quick? 31:25.120 --> 31:25.680 Yes. 31:27.700 --> 31:32.860 I actually found myself checking my glasses and my cell phone as he was saying that. 31:32.860 --> 31:34.880 And I want to say I'm missing my underwear. 31:35.160 --> 31:36.140 No, just kidding. 31:36.260 --> 31:37.820 Have you seen me work before? 31:37.860 --> 31:39.280 Do you have anything in your pockets? 31:39.340 --> 31:39.960 Yes. 31:39.960 --> 31:40.180 Good. 31:40.180 --> 31:41.300 Can you stand up for me real quick? 31:42.080 --> 31:43.740 And you have seen me work before or not? 31:44.220 --> 31:44.720 Okay. 31:44.720 --> 31:45.180 Cool. 31:48.640 --> 31:50.980 Now, the disadvantage is we don't have any real estate on stage. 31:50.980 --> 31:52.040 But if you could stand over this way for me. 31:52.040 --> 31:52.600 What's your name? 31:53.100 --> 31:53.580 Greg. 31:53.580 --> 31:53.860 Greg . 31:54.360 --> 31:55.400 Can I check a couple things? 31:55.400 --> 31:57.020 So you have a watch, but this is a buckle watch. 31:57.020 --> 31:57.880 So it doesn't come off very easy. 31:57.880 --> 31:58.980 Close your hand kind of tight. 31:59.060 --> 32:00.540 So that wouldn't let it come off this way. 32:00.580 --> 32:04.080 Yet when you walked past me, did you check to see where your wallet was? 32:05.120 --> 32:06.180 Your front pocket. 32:06.240 --> 32:07.000 This side right here. 32:07.000 --> 32:07.660 What was in there? 32:07.660 --> 32:08.640 The watch is gone. 32:08.640 --> 32:10.260 Do you have anything inside your front pocket? 32:11.440 --> 32:11.880 Yeah? 32:11.960 --> 32:12.880 Is it still there? 32:14.880 --> 32:15.980 Can I show you? 32:15.980 --> 32:16.660 Now, this is odd. 32:16.660 --> 32:17.360 A lot of you don't know. 32:17.360 --> 32:18.400 Does this look familiar to you? 32:18.400 --> 32:19.540 What's inside the piece? 32:19.540 --> 32:20.320 Is that yours? 32:20.320 --> 32:20.820 No. 32:20.860 --> 32:21.140 No. 32:21.140 --> 32:21.600 Okay. 32:21.700 --> 32:23.020 Step over this way for me for a second. 32:23.020 --> 32:24.680 You're realizing your cell phone is gone now, yes? 32:25.340 --> 32:26.960 So those are two items. 32:27.320 --> 32:32.380 But you can see this is much more adversarial than you ever have in a context where somebody doesn't know who you are. 32:32.820 --> 32:36.400 So here he knows, and he's seen videos of me working, so he knows the nature of them. 32:36.400 --> 32:40.740 So I'm going to hold the things up when I hold them over to the side, and I can steal a watch like this. 32:41.340 --> 32:42.120 Here you go. 32:44.980 --> 32:45.800 Thank you. 32:54.090 --> 32:58.410 Thanks for asking for that, because I think it shows how the questions are important. 32:58.410 --> 33:00.150 It's not about the technique that I use. 33:00.150 --> 33:01.850 I mean, that's a portion of it, maybe 20%. 33:01.850 --> 33:04.750 But 80% is the questions I asked him. 33:04.750 --> 33:14.490 So I said, as you walk by that wallet that you had in your pocket, that's his security guard saying, oh, jeez, am I already behind the game? 33:14.710 --> 33:18.250 And when he switches in that interior dialogue, that's when I remove the watch. 33:18.250 --> 33:26.270 I've already got the moves, but if I didn't say those things, if I didn't ask that question, he would just film me unbuckling his watch, just like you would. 33:26.270 --> 33:31.470 So it's not about a Jedi technique that I can do that I have light fingers. 33:31.470 --> 33:34.730 It's that I'm able to get inside of his head and suppress his perceptions. 33:35.130 --> 33:37.790 So you use psychological misdirection? 33:37.790 --> 33:39.170 Very much so, yes. 33:39.730 --> 33:41.630 So, Paulo, I have a quick question. 33:41.630 --> 33:47.410 I think within the community we pride ourselves in being very vigilant and being very aware of these kinds of things. 33:47.410 --> 33:55.250 And I guess my question is, one, do you have any experience with security professionals and whether or not we are, in fact, better at detecting deception? 33:55.250 --> 33:58.950 And two, if you have any advice for us, anything that we can learn. 33:58.950 --> 34:00.630 Be careful with your answer. 34:02.110 --> 34:08.070 A while back, I performed at Caesar's Palace here in Las Vegas for about five years. 34:08.070 --> 34:11.190 And a detail of Secret Service agents came through. 34:11.490 --> 34:16.250 And I realize some of this audience knows me very well and they've heard these stories multiple times, so sorry for being redundant. 34:16.550 --> 34:20.830 But the Secret Service are highly trained in different ways for the protocol. 34:20.830 --> 34:24.630 Wheels up, wheels down is often one of the phrases they'll use. 34:25.550 --> 34:34.350 And because of the protocol and the way that they're trained, one of the trainings that they go through is called Kim's Game, which means keep in mind, but it's a memory system perception there. 34:34.350 --> 34:44.390 But you still have to dedicate your cognitive resources to the task that you're doing, which means if I'm going to spend my attention dollars on one thing, I'm going to have an atrophy in another area. 34:44.390 --> 34:49.170 So I just have to know where they're spending it, and I understand that there's going to be a deficit somewhere else. 34:49.250 --> 34:50.630 So I have to identify that. 34:50.630 --> 34:57.070 In their case, when I would go into their space, they would square up to me, and they would keep occupied space and wouldn't let me get close. 34:57.590 --> 35:00.590 So I had to pretend that I wasn't interested in this room. 35:00.710 --> 35:02.850 It would be very difficult, but I could do something to you. 35:03.430 --> 35:09.030 And now this person just let me inside their space because I'm doing it to him, supposedly. 35:09.030 --> 35:14.210 So I changed the game to be about him, and this agent let me inside their space to steal their things. 35:15.290 --> 35:19.190 So if you can understand what their protocols are, you can violate past those. 35:21.010 --> 35:22.390 It was a treasure chest. 35:22.390 --> 35:23.590 What was that? 35:24.690 --> 35:26.430 I mean, he didn't steal your... 35:26.430 --> 35:29.490 I might give you a couple things very quick as far as a visual. 35:29.490 --> 35:33.830 If you look at this, could all of you hold your right hand in the air? 35:34.530 --> 35:36.890 Now, this is a perception test, but it's one you might not see. 35:36.890 --> 35:38.230 It's one that we use for the military. 35:39.090 --> 35:43.370 And I'm going to show you two photos, and there's going to be a change between those two photos. 35:43.470 --> 35:47.110 When you see the change, just put your right hand down, and we'll know how fast it takes effect. 35:47.110 --> 35:51.990 So we have a mixture of security professionals here, and if you haven't seen the video, you'll get to see the realtime results of this. 35:54.390 --> 35:56.890 So this image is going to toggle back and forth between the two. 35:56.890 --> 36:01.330 Don't say anything to your neighbor, but when you see the difference between the two photos, put your hand down. 36:05.720 --> 36:07.600 That's kind of an answer to your question. 36:09.320 --> 36:21.940 Now if I start giving you hints, and I tell you people have a tendency to get tunnel vision, they start looking at the windows, they start counting the shoes, then that gives you a hint that maybe it's something less obvious than that, or more obvious. 36:21.940 --> 36:24.880 In this case, they won't be going anywhere without this. 36:26.120 --> 36:28.440 And once you see it, you can't help but not see it. 36:31.620 --> 36:38.480 For the rest of you, look under the wing of the plane, and you'll see that the engine is appearing and disappearing. 36:39.580 --> 36:42.240 And now, put your right hand up if you feel stupid. 36:43.680 --> 36:46.300 Well you shouldn't feel stupid, what you should feel is human. 36:46.540 --> 36:50.060 Because I myself am susceptible to the same things that I do. 36:50.060 --> 36:52.860 But the difference is that I know that I'm susceptible to it. 36:53.060 --> 36:55.540 When you know something, that's when you should be scared. 36:55.540 --> 37:02.320 When you feel like you know your techniques, your protocol, and your absolute, that's when you should be scared, because that means you have no room for doubt. 37:02.340 --> 37:03.940 And doubt is what makes us secure. 37:05.800 --> 37:09.520 There's another example if you don't mind, I'd like to show just a little model of how I use deception. 37:11.040 --> 37:12.820 This is how I think about deception. 37:15.780 --> 37:17.880 Let me grab this here, it'll be easier. 37:18.060 --> 37:25.020 If you think of everything that's happening right now, this is a micro, what we're doing right here, with me on stage, with you guys. 37:25.020 --> 37:27.860 But, it's also how you perceive the world. 37:29.820 --> 37:35.940 Tennessee Williams, the playwright, said that most playwrights when they write a play, they forget one character. 37:36.080 --> 37:38.140 And that's the role of the audience. 37:38.160 --> 37:43.420 Because when the audience views the play, the movie, whatever it may be, they forget that the audience is the detective. 37:43.580 --> 37:47.580 Whether it's a drama, whether it's a mystery, or whether it's a comedy, they're trying to solve that. 37:47.580 --> 37:50.120 And we're doing that every day, we're looking for patterns. 37:50.240 --> 37:53.800 We're trying to identify what is the situation, what's happening to me right now. 37:53.800 --> 37:58.220 So as you watch me walk from the stage and walk close to you, all of that's being processed. 37:58.220 --> 37:59.560 It's just like a play. 37:59.700 --> 38:02.660 So, I'm on stage, in front of you. 38:02.800 --> 38:05.820 Right now, this is a very good example of a spotlight. 38:05.820 --> 38:11.120 But your spotlight here, in a very real sense, is controlling most of your focus. 38:11.200 --> 38:16.000 So the dimmer areas, you wouldn't know if I had a team working on you right now, stealing from the back of the room. 38:16.000 --> 38:17.880 Or setting up things I might do later. 38:18.640 --> 38:23.280 In the same way, you have a certain budget of where you're going to spend your attention in everyday life. 38:23.280 --> 38:28.480 When it comes to deception, there's a separate reality that's happening simultaneously. 38:28.480 --> 38:30.060 That's running on a separate channel. 38:30.060 --> 38:32.140 In this sense, it's backstage. 38:32.360 --> 38:37.740 It's kind of like in the Matrix, when you saw the spoon bending and you realize that there's something that's a bigger reality. 38:39.080 --> 38:41.240 They got a peek behind the curtain. 38:41.680 --> 38:46.060 Now, when you get a peek behind the curtain and you have some kind of suspicion, this doesn't make sense. 38:46.080 --> 38:50.320 When that moment happens, you start going on the chase for deception. 38:51.300 --> 38:57.440 If I'm on the other side, and I'm the one designing this deception, what I would teach you to do is to build a secondary... 38:57.440 --> 38:59.140 Well, first, sorry, there's a director. 38:59.260 --> 39:02.640 So, obviously, if you know there's a deception, you know somebody's trying to deceive you. 39:02.640 --> 39:06.320 And that's a big thing to identify who is the wolf that's doing that. 39:06.980 --> 39:08.260 This is what I would teach. 39:08.260 --> 39:09.760 To have a secondary curtain. 39:09.820 --> 39:10.660 A ploy. 39:10.800 --> 39:15.540 So that if you see behind the curtain, it's the second thing that gives a plausible reason why that happened. 39:15.560 --> 39:18.360 A great example of that is Victor Lustig. 39:18.360 --> 39:19.680 Does anybody know who that is? 39:20.440 --> 39:23.020 He's the man who sold the Eiffel Tower twice. 39:23.460 --> 39:24.980 He sold the Brooklyn Bridge. 39:24.980 --> 39:26.660 He cheated Al Capone. 39:26.680 --> 39:30.500 He talked the Secret Service into letting him go after they had arrested him. 39:31.360 --> 39:35.000 He was very arrogant when they first arrested him and they were going to take him to prison. 39:35.660 --> 39:40.160 The press was interviewing him saying, how do you feel about going to this maximum security prison in San Francisco? 39:40.300 --> 39:42.080 He said, I'm not going to get a chance to see it. 39:42.160 --> 39:43.280 He said, but you're leaving tomorrow. 39:43.280 --> 39:44.640 He says, I won't be here tomorrow. 39:45.580 --> 39:48.000 And then when they go to his prison cell, he had vanished overnight. 39:48.840 --> 39:50.200 How did he do it? 39:50.200 --> 39:55.380 He had picked up a squeegee that nobody thought or was suspicious about. 39:55.600 --> 40:02.440 And he made a cliche rope out of his bed sheets, climbed out of the window, and pretended to be cleaning windows as he was going down. 40:02.440 --> 40:05.260 So whenever the security guards saw him, they thought, oh, that's just the window cleaner. 40:05.340 --> 40:06.240 And he got away. 40:08.120 --> 40:10.640 He was a master student of human nature. 40:10.700 --> 40:13.600 He understood how to hide things by the radar. 40:13.600 --> 40:15.160 And that's really the same thing. 40:15.160 --> 40:21.700 When our mind, when that little security guard, Frank, sees things in reality, he's seeing, he's categorizing and saying, is this relevant? 40:21.700 --> 40:22.440 Is it important? 40:22.440 --> 40:24.440 If it's not, if it is, then I'll encode it. 40:24.440 --> 40:27.000 If it's not, it's going to go under the radar and I'll forget about it. 40:27.000 --> 40:33.180 And for you guys, if you can decipher what makes things relevant to the person, you can make things invisible to them. 40:33.180 --> 40:35.060 You can make them not perceive them. 40:35.620 --> 40:38.000 Great example of Victor Lustig using the ploy. 40:38.000 --> 40:44.800 When he was selling the Eiffel Tower, he was selling it as junk metal during a time when the Eiffel Tower didn't have the esteem that it did before. 40:44.800 --> 40:46.300 It was after the World's Fair. 40:46.720 --> 40:48.580 The husband, how are we doing on time? 40:48.800 --> 40:50.140 Finish the story and... 40:50.140 --> 40:50.960 I'll wrap that up. 40:50.960 --> 40:51.420 All right. 40:51.420 --> 41:01.980 When he was selling the Eiffel Tower, the wife of the bidder was suspicious that Victor Lustig might not be who he said he was or might not be legit. 41:01.980 --> 41:05.200 He had a variety of scrap metal workers bid on the job. 41:06.120 --> 41:07.440 But this wife smelled a rat. 41:07.440 --> 41:09.100 She smelled something behind the curtain. 41:09.440 --> 41:17.160 The way he dealt with that was he told her and her husband when he had dinner, he says, listen, if you want this deal to happen, you're going to need to give me a kickback. 41:17.400 --> 41:19.080 Now, they think he's a city official. 41:19.140 --> 41:21.260 So she thinks that's the rat she smells. 41:21.400 --> 41:22.320 That was his ploy. 41:22.320 --> 41:23.560 That was his second curtain. 41:24.760 --> 41:26.700 They hate him, but they say, all right. 41:26.700 --> 41:30.160 They give him the kickback and they go to buy the contract. 41:30.740 --> 41:38.940 And in that exchange, he was able to keep the contract and make more money than he had planned before because he was able to identify what she needed. 41:39.020 --> 41:42.060 So that's a little example in the construction of the deception. 41:42.760 --> 41:43.800 Any questions? 41:44.920 --> 41:47.460 Guys, we want to thank Apollo for coming in, right? 41:47.460 --> 41:48.040 Come on. 41:48.040 --> 41:49.020 Thank you, guys. 41:52.660 --> 41:53.380 Thank you. 41:53.380 --> 41:54.060 Thank you.