1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,200 Thank y'all. Don't know how many of y'all are subscribing, but those of you that have subscribed, you helped us break 40,000 downloads this past weekend. 2 00:00:08,900 --> 00:00:14,200 That's a lot considering we started recording last September. 3 00:00:15,140 --> 00:00:20,120 And because of that, I hope all of y'all come to the lightning talks at 7 o'clock tonight. 4 00:00:20,260 --> 00:00:29,380 It's also when we're going to be creating new baby cyborgs, so I hope you come out and see them come out of their shell and maybe become a caterpillar or a fly, I don't know. 5 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:30,660 Totally up to them. 6 00:00:30,780 --> 00:00:44,420 But as a special gift for coming, which will come in handy tonight at the lightning talks, there's glow-in-the-dark and black light sensitive bracelets right in front of the schwag for donations in the back. 7 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:51,580 So please feel free to pick one of those up as you donate to Biohack Village and get a badge or a shirt or whatever. 8 00:00:51,780 --> 00:00:55,760 If you don't feel the need to donate, take a bracelet anyway. 9 00:00:56,540 --> 00:00:59,860 And we hope to see y'all tonight because there will be. 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,160 There will definitely be some special libations. 11 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:09,600 But I want to thank y'all for coming here and thank our guests for helping and guest hosts. 12 00:01:10,460 --> 00:01:11,520 I am Cooper. 13 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:21,440 I am the ringleader, the cat herder, the crazy guy that wanted to do this and found people willing to do it with me. 14 00:01:21,880 --> 00:01:24,460 God help them for coming along the way. 15 00:01:25,140 --> 00:01:26,460 We also have Cursor. 16 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:29,340 All the way from London, England. 17 00:01:29,340 --> 00:01:31,520 And we're very thankful to have him with us. 18 00:01:32,260 --> 00:01:39,000 We have Nick Stuff all the way from Minnesota. 19 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:42,160 He brought his pop with him and all that. 20 00:01:42,900 --> 00:01:45,920 And, of course, Static Nerd, a fellow Texan. 21 00:01:46,020 --> 00:01:47,780 Got to have Texans. 22 00:01:48,140 --> 00:01:49,220 Can't have just one. 23 00:01:49,420 --> 00:01:50,680 There's always need to have a bunch. 24 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,060 And, yeah, we also have Saw. 25 00:01:55,380 --> 00:01:58,060 Definitely want to say, as we always have to do, 26 00:01:58,060 --> 00:02:01,680 we've got to thank the people that helped bring us here, especially Biohacking Village. 27 00:02:01,980 --> 00:02:03,900 Y'all are lovely, lovely people. 28 00:02:04,400 --> 00:02:05,640 And we love all of you. 29 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:10,140 But also Danger Sings. 30 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,940 They have helped us since the beginning and have wanted to keep good ties with us. 31 00:02:15,460 --> 00:02:21,320 Axiom VPN for protecting our connection today to make things possible and not owned. 32 00:02:22,380 --> 00:02:26,060 Pro Phase Bio Studios for providing space and access. 33 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:28,040 As well as Specialist. 34 00:02:28,060 --> 00:02:28,820 Special treat for tonight. 35 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:30,360 Yes, I'm saying it again. 36 00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:40,320 Come at 7 for lightning talks and the implantation party as well as special things to happen. 37 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:42,900 You'll have to be here to know what it is. 38 00:02:43,980 --> 00:02:46,140 But anyway, we also have a couple guests. 39 00:02:46,260 --> 00:02:51,160 We have Rich Lee, who is a self-described black hat biohacker and grinder. 40 00:02:52,540 --> 00:02:55,460 I think he's more gray or white hat most of the time, myself. 41 00:02:56,820 --> 00:02:57,660 And what? 42 00:02:58,060 --> 00:03:00,240 It looks like we also have a nice typo. 43 00:03:00,580 --> 00:03:02,540 It's supposed to be Melanie, not Annie. 44 00:03:02,700 --> 00:03:03,120 I'm sorry. 45 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:06,920 Needless to say, I need more caffeine in my blood. 46 00:03:07,020 --> 00:03:08,140 I'm not a very good biohacker. 47 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:08,560 I'm sorry. 48 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,840 But she's a PhD candidate and a grinder as well. 49 00:03:13,420 --> 00:03:18,700 Anyway, we want to thank you to our first live recording of Dangerous Minds where we delve 50 00:03:18,700 --> 00:03:22,060 into the minds of biohackers and grinders, take a closer look 51 00:03:22,060 --> 00:03:24,760 at this tech being implanted and developed by this community. 52 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:27,740 So we have. 53 00:03:28,060 --> 00:03:33,960 We also have a Patreon page at patreon.com forward slash dangerous minds. 54 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:38,940 If you like what we do in the community and like what we do on the podcast. 55 00:03:39,020 --> 00:03:40,860 So please feel free to support us there. 56 00:03:42,580 --> 00:03:47,020 So we want this episode to be slightly different, different to previous episodes. 57 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:51,580 So if you have any questions or you want to contribute to the conversation, do feel like you can. 58 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:52,840 It's like an open thing. 59 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:58,040 If you just put your hand up or come to the mic, we'll see if we can chuck you in as soon as we have the time to do that. 60 00:04:02,060 --> 00:04:04,060 We'll start with everyone introducing themselves. 61 00:04:04,300 --> 00:04:05,400 We'd like to start with Rich Lee. 62 00:04:07,260 --> 00:04:08,680 Hey, my name is Rich Lee. 63 00:04:10,740 --> 00:04:12,980 I started biohacking maybe 2008. 64 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:15,820 Got really big into the grinder scene and maybe 2011. 65 00:04:16,980 --> 00:04:25,560 I did a bunch of projects like headphone implants and more recently been working on something called the Laptron 9000. 66 00:04:28,060 --> 00:04:28,920 Is it IOT connected? 67 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:29,980 Yeah. 68 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:30,400 You know what? 69 00:04:30,540 --> 00:04:31,020 That's. 70 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:32,740 After the last talk. 71 00:04:32,780 --> 00:04:33,100 Yeah. 72 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:33,480 Right. 73 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:34,820 Yeah. 74 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,240 If it isn't, is there a module I can add on? 75 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:38,980 Yeah. 76 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:45,200 Those are discussions we could have like off the podcast because it's a development. 77 00:04:45,260 --> 00:04:45,740 How about that? 78 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:48,440 Cool. 79 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:49,600 I'm Melanie. 80 00:04:49,780 --> 00:04:51,720 I'm doing a PhD in cognitive neuroscience. 81 00:04:51,980 --> 00:04:56,600 I'm a co-founder of a group called Neurotech X, which is an international neurotechnology community. 82 00:04:58,060 --> 00:05:00,620 I make brain stimulators in my spare time. 83 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:02,300 Sometimes I use them. 84 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,060 I'm Cursor from London, if you can't tell. 85 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,600 It's not Australian, I promise you. 86 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,680 Yeah, so I'm just a software engineer, but grinder as well. 87 00:05:17,420 --> 00:05:18,740 And yeah, that's me. 88 00:05:19,740 --> 00:05:20,680 I'm Ryan McEvoy. 89 00:05:20,740 --> 00:05:22,740 I'm half of these two cyborgs in a pod. 90 00:05:23,100 --> 00:05:25,260 Excuse me, two cyborgs in a microphone podcast. 91 00:05:25,820 --> 00:05:27,680 I've been grinding for a few years. 92 00:05:28,060 --> 00:05:31,680 I've got everything from magnets, RFIDs, and the glow in the dark. 93 00:05:32,060 --> 00:05:35,980 And I also run a blog, 24hourengineer.com. 94 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,740 I've got cards, or you can just scan my hand after the show. 95 00:05:40,180 --> 00:05:40,980 And hi there. 96 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:42,200 I'm Sadiq Nerd. 97 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:48,340 I help out with B-Sides Las Vegas with AV, coordinate B-Sides SATX back in San Antonio. 98 00:05:48,580 --> 00:05:53,540 I run the Security Endeavors podcast, which is a passion thing, so they're only like five episodes. 99 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:54,940 I promise the site's not dead. 100 00:05:55,580 --> 00:05:57,900 But also, this wouldn't be right. 101 00:05:58,580 --> 00:06:01,840 Excuse me, I do have to take just half a second for some additional business. 102 00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:06,780 So, to my knowledge, this is the first time all of us have presented at DEF CON, right? 103 00:06:07,140 --> 00:06:10,720 So, what's the custom if it's the first time you're presenting at DEF CON? 104 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:11,100 Anybody? 105 00:06:12,180 --> 00:06:13,220 Can you hold this, please? 106 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,860 I was going to say, I've done it a few times already. 107 00:06:20,780 --> 00:06:21,640 I feel it. 108 00:06:28,060 --> 00:06:30,520 Last year, I didn't know this was a tradition. 109 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:39,440 And this is when we say, this one's for all of you. 110 00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:45,520 Because we wouldn't be up here if it wasn't for everyone sitting here and everyone at home 111 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,100 playing the home game of Dangerous Minds podcast. 112 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:50,480 Rights pending. 113 00:06:53,580 --> 00:06:55,940 Now I feel like, now I feel more ready. 114 00:06:57,520 --> 00:06:58,040 Thank you. 115 00:06:59,660 --> 00:07:02,240 And thank you very much for allowing me that moment. 116 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:08,360 But thank you so much for allowing us to come into your brain stems and, Coop, please. 117 00:07:08,780 --> 00:07:10,320 Or actually, whose turn is it? 118 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:10,700 There you go. 119 00:07:11,300 --> 00:07:14,380 It's Mr. Green in the library with the candlestick. 120 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:15,300 Sorry, guys, going for weight. 121 00:07:15,620 --> 00:07:16,400 Alcohol is important. 122 00:07:17,740 --> 00:07:18,180 Cheers. 123 00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:20,080 Oh, so English. 124 00:07:20,140 --> 00:07:21,200 Can't do anything without liquor. 125 00:07:22,060 --> 00:07:22,500 Cheers. 126 00:07:22,900 --> 00:07:23,340 Cheers. 127 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:25,160 Cheers. 128 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,180 What was that? 129 00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:30,700 That was supposed to be tea. 130 00:07:30,860 --> 00:07:31,620 What are you doing to me? 131 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:32,500 Wait, should I go in here? 132 00:07:32,580 --> 00:07:33,360 No naked flames. 133 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:35,540 There we go. 134 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:37,460 He wants to have a cigarette afterwards. 135 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:38,760 I'm going to be a flamethrower. 136 00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:41,700 So, yeah, let's dive right into this. 137 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:44,060 So we've done a number of podcasts now. 138 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,320 And something we find is that the definition of biohacking is a bit ambiguous. 139 00:07:50,620 --> 00:07:51,200 There we go. 140 00:07:53,420 --> 00:07:54,760 So, so what? 141 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:54,980 What? 142 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,120 So what I've come up with after several episodes of doing it is what I think biohacking is. 143 00:07:59,580 --> 00:08:04,500 And I'll give you that and then we'll pass on to these guys to try and define what this crazy community is. 144 00:08:05,020 --> 00:08:06,440 Plus we want to know what you think. 145 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:07,620 Yeah. 146 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:09,320 So, yeah, do let us know as well. 147 00:08:09,460 --> 00:08:12,420 We're going to run like a small, like, segment on a podcast. 148 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:18,460 So if you guys do have some time, reach out to us and we'll get your small snippets of what you think it is because it's different to everyone. 149 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,120 So this is my definition. 150 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:25,140 So the world is kind of focused on creating machines with, like, a concept. 151 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:25,520 It's a conscious thought. 152 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:34,680 And countless years of development have followed to try and create, like, a true cognitive machine, like a union between biology and consciousness. 153 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,280 But for me, I think it's the fact that the approach is kind of wrong. 154 00:08:39,420 --> 00:08:45,840 So instead of taking something, so you basically, you reverse the roles. 155 00:08:45,980 --> 00:08:50,440 So you take a human cognitive being and you put the impulsive technology in. 156 00:08:50,560 --> 00:08:52,660 And what you get is a product of a new race. 157 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,000 It's a union between humankind. 158 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,080 That propels all of us. 159 00:08:57,320 --> 00:09:10,320 And so it's the difference between, say, you know, the films you see in the Hollywood films of, you know, let's make a machine think like a human and instead reverse that and make the human adapt to the technology. 160 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:17,520 But I'm going to put this out to you guys first to see how you feel about what biohacking is and what it means to you. 161 00:09:20,680 --> 00:09:22,380 I get asked this question a lot. 162 00:09:22,460 --> 00:09:24,200 And each time I give a different answer. 163 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:29,740 And I think that my idea of what biohacking is is basically a really evolving thing. 164 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:35,260 I have found, though, that as time goes on, my definition gets more and more ambiguous. 165 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,860 When I started off, I was like, yeah, biohacking is basically saying, fuck you to life. 166 00:09:41,620 --> 00:09:45,620 I'm going to, you know, modify it as I want and kind of a thing. 167 00:09:45,860 --> 00:09:52,240 But then, you know, it's not necessarily always, like, self-focused, right? 168 00:09:52,380 --> 00:09:54,060 You've got people who are looking, like, outside. 169 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,080 You've got people who are looking outside of the human body and into nature and things like that. 170 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,000 And so it's got to include all those other things as well. 171 00:10:00,180 --> 00:10:12,680 So I found basically, like, the definitions that are used on, like, say, what's the DIY bio, right? 172 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:19,260 Or something like engaging in biology, you know, with the hacker ethic. 173 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:21,440 I really like that, you know. 174 00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:23,240 I mean, it does involve the hacker ethic. 175 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:28,000 It is ambiguous enough to, like, include everybody in it. 176 00:10:28,860 --> 00:10:32,760 But, I mean, you know, it doesn't, like, narrow down to, like, a specific thing. 177 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:39,820 Anyway, it's a big, broad umbrella with many different disciplines under it, right? 178 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:45,820 But I guess at the end of the day, like, since I give a new definition every time I am asked, 179 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:47,220 I'll just give a new definition today. 180 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:49,300 And basically, it's changing the course of life. 181 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:53,520 Yeah. 182 00:10:53,620 --> 00:10:53,700 Yeah. 183 00:10:54,200 --> 00:11:01,300 I do think that biohacking is a very, very catch-all term that kind of gets taken out of context sometimes. 184 00:11:01,460 --> 00:11:05,720 A lot of people have a very edgy association with the term biohacking. 185 00:11:05,860 --> 00:11:11,440 Whereas for me, like, going to your kitchen and making really cool recipes still counts as biohacking. 186 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:18,420 It's just taking stuff and playing around with it in ways that you didn't do it before in the context of biology 187 00:11:18,420 --> 00:11:21,380 is sort of what biohacking is in my mind. 188 00:11:25,380 --> 00:11:31,880 If you have a question, please feel free to move to the microphone or a comment to your own answer to the question. 189 00:11:33,260 --> 00:11:34,300 I have a comment. 190 00:11:34,860 --> 00:11:40,720 I work in pediatrics, and I work with a lot of kids that have congenital heart disease. 191 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,780 So they need pacemakers and things like that. 192 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:50,480 So why would a biohacker want to mess around with a kid's pacemaker and ruin their rhythm? 193 00:11:51,500 --> 00:11:53,040 That's kind of my question. 194 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:53,680 Like, yeah. 195 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,700 It gives the power of being a biohacker and, like, pacing the child's heart. 196 00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:01,600 Like, a pacemaker is there to pace your heart. 197 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,580 And, like, when you literally see a child that was born like this with a congenital heart disease, 198 00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:08,020 why would you want to screw them up? 199 00:12:08,260 --> 00:12:15,480 Well, I can attest as somebody that knows, someone that is researching into medical device security, 200 00:12:16,260 --> 00:12:21,840 especially IoT-connected medical devices, he is not doing it with a malicious intent. 201 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:24,180 Much like most hackers, they're... 202 00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,860 They're there to see what is there and report the faults so people can fix it. 203 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:29,180 Right. 204 00:12:29,220 --> 00:12:33,980 So that people don't die, especially in, you know, stuff like that. 205 00:12:34,340 --> 00:12:41,420 I get that, but I feel like people have a sense of gratification when they can control someone's heart. 206 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:42,400 Well... 207 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:42,880 And that sucks. 208 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:44,840 Especially when a child... 209 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:45,660 That's a different matter. 210 00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:46,660 That's a sick person. 211 00:12:46,980 --> 00:12:47,500 That... 212 00:12:47,500 --> 00:12:49,880 You should not label them simply as a biohacker. 213 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:52,740 I would consider that person to be a criminal. 214 00:12:53,500 --> 00:12:54,020 Exactly. 215 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,340 That is all about consent. 216 00:12:57,100 --> 00:13:03,460 What I'd also say is if you consider before the pacemaker, the pacemaker could be considered a biohacker itself. 217 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:06,220 You're implanting what is not part of biology. 218 00:13:06,420 --> 00:13:07,280 It's a piece of technology. 219 00:13:07,940 --> 00:13:11,680 And you're making that union between the biology and the technology. 220 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:16,680 So that in itself, you could say, is the product of the good biohackers, right? 221 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:23,460 So, of course, in every group, you're going to have a small, you know, amount of people that you're going to have to worry about. 222 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,180 I mean, we're at... 223 00:13:24,180 --> 00:13:27,760 Like a hack and con, I'm sure all of you are not going to be taking people's bank details down the street. 224 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:28,180 Right. 225 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:29,740 But there might be some people that would do that, right? 226 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:34,840 So then we go into discussion of where does the responsibility lie with ethics? 227 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,860 And this is something that we'll come on to a little bit later. 228 00:13:38,540 --> 00:13:41,020 And hopefully we'll be able to answer your question when that comes up. 229 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:41,400 Yeah. 230 00:13:41,500 --> 00:13:48,340 It definitely is not having the technology, but we do have a lot of cardiologists that worry about the moralistic part. 231 00:13:49,500 --> 00:13:49,860 Yeah, I mean... 232 00:13:49,860 --> 00:13:50,540 About someone messing out. 233 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:50,920 With a child's heart. 234 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:54,160 We all have a responsibility for that because we're all contributing to the field. 235 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:54,560 Exactly. 236 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:55,700 It doesn't end with just children. 237 00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:56,980 It doesn't end with children. 238 00:13:57,100 --> 00:13:58,140 It's anybody that has that device. 239 00:13:58,180 --> 00:14:03,820 But if you're a child and you were born with a congenital heart disease that you cannot control who you were born with, 240 00:14:03,900 --> 00:14:09,540 as opposed to being a 40-year-old smoker for your whole life, and now you have clogged arteries, 241 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:11,800 and now you have to get a pacemaker that... 242 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,440 That's really broad labels. 243 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:14,660 Yeah, it is. 244 00:14:14,660 --> 00:14:19,980 To say that an adult is any different as far as value of life from a child. 245 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,420 Any life is valued. 246 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:24,780 Any life. 247 00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:26,060 I 100% agree with you. 248 00:14:26,300 --> 00:14:27,720 My life is not better than yours. 249 00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:28,340 Nothing. 250 00:14:29,020 --> 00:14:31,120 I'm just saying anybody's life is valued. 251 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:36,860 I understand your opinion and your question you're giving, but the thing is you're talking about criminals. 252 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:42,880 You're not talking about biohackers, grinders, what have you, or ethical researchers. 253 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:43,900 You're talking about criminals. 254 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:44,820 I'm talking about... 255 00:14:44,820 --> 00:14:46,940 Just the same as anyone that is using... 256 00:14:46,940 --> 00:14:48,160 Can I just step in for a sec after? 257 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:49,460 Yeah, I'm talking about congenitalness. 258 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:50,360 Like, congenital. 259 00:14:50,380 --> 00:14:51,520 They have no control over it. 260 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:52,080 They connect. 261 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:54,140 Yeah, so I think what all of our goals... 262 00:14:54,160 --> 00:15:01,100 One of our goals would be in the biohacking community is that when they grow up, they do have control over their own heart instead of a company having control over their own heart. 263 00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:01,180 Exactly. 264 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:08,980 Yeah, so I think that is the side that the biohackers are approaching this as opposed to criminals, as Cooper said. 265 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:11,540 Yeah, that we don't do that. 266 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,500 Ideally, the people that do would go to jail. 267 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:17,600 We would hope so. 268 00:15:17,860 --> 00:15:20,140 I mean, we would hope so, right? 269 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:22,440 Thanks very much. 270 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:23,020 Appreciate that. 271 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:23,800 Bye. 272 00:15:24,620 --> 00:15:29,140 So that kind of brings me to my definition of what I consider biohacking and what it means to me. 273 00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:30,700 For me, it's making things. 274 00:15:30,860 --> 00:15:39,360 I want to expand my sensory perception through technological devices with things like finger magnets and that sort of thing. 275 00:15:39,500 --> 00:15:41,280 So to me, it's about making, not breaking. 276 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:51,520 And to the point that's already been brought up, there are so many different avenues and parts to consider when dealing with what is biohacking. 277 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:52,340 What is... 278 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:53,960 Where is the line between... 279 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:58,880 The man-machine question, automating things versus making life better. 280 00:15:58,960 --> 00:15:59,940 It's about equality of life. 281 00:16:00,040 --> 00:16:02,900 It's about exploring boundaries and pushing them, right? 282 00:16:03,060 --> 00:16:05,300 And everybody has their own view on it. 283 00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:08,540 And that's part of what makes it so personal, I think. 284 00:16:09,020 --> 00:16:11,540 It's really driven by the individual. 285 00:16:13,660 --> 00:16:14,300 Thank you. 286 00:16:15,300 --> 00:16:22,140 So let's start or continue with what got everyone into the grinding scene and what did you do in it? 287 00:16:26,260 --> 00:16:27,900 Yeah, so I don't know. 288 00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:28,960 My story is really long. 289 00:16:29,060 --> 00:16:44,620 Basically, my grandmother died and I had one of these like life things where I was like, oh, you know, like, you know, I'm kind of like planning on, you know, basically corporations to come along and like produce these life extension therapies for me so I could live to be forever. 290 00:16:45,460 --> 00:16:50,860 You know, someday I want a jet pack and a flying car and I'm just waiting for all this shit to happen, but it never fucking happens, right? 291 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,040 And like at some point, you just get the realization that like... 292 00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,760 I'm sorry, there's like not a lot of companies going into cybernetic implants, right? 293 00:16:58,860 --> 00:17:06,140 Just because like the liability, the limit of the market, you know, there's not a lot of people who are making flying cars right now. 294 00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:13,520 I know there are some people that are trying, but I mean, come on, there's like going to be some like failures there and stuff like that. 295 00:17:13,580 --> 00:17:20,520 Anyway, I just decided that if I wanted any of this shit, I just have to get into it and like just start in it. 296 00:17:20,620 --> 00:17:24,020 And so before that, I was doing like a business shit, you know, like real estate. 297 00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:32,440 Stuff that I like fucking hate now, but this is honestly like the only fulfilling thing to me now, you know, is the biohacking scene. 298 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:38,280 And before, I just had this stupid notion that someday if I just saved up a lot of money, it was just going to happen, right? 299 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:40,360 I'd just be able to go into the mall and get this stuff. 300 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,720 And I just decided after a while, it's bullshit, you know? 301 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,320 So that's basically how I got into it. 302 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:53,220 And I've been doing some, I don't know, implants and doing a lot of... 303 00:17:54,260 --> 00:17:56,840 Trial and error kind of stuff ever since, so. 304 00:17:59,620 --> 00:18:11,080 Yeah, I just got super lucky in terms of things that lined up where in my undergrad, I was taking this neuroethics course and we had a prof that was doing brain computer interfaces and came in and gave a really interesting lecture. 305 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,960 I was like, okay, I'll write my final paper on this. 306 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:23,800 And around the time where that happened, I started going to the hackerspace in Montreal and someone had found one of those brain computer interface toys in the garbage and was like, I don't know, you do brain stuff to hack. 307 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:24,540 This thing. 308 00:18:25,060 --> 00:18:27,160 And so I just kind of got into it from there. 309 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:36,320 And then from brain computer interfaces, I got into brain stimulation and, again, just had a lot of support from my community being like, man, sure, I don't know, here's a battery. 310 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,300 Do some things with resistors and figure out how to zappy zappy. 311 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,460 So, yeah, that's kind of how I got into it. 312 00:18:43,360 --> 00:18:44,720 I love your technical terms. 313 00:18:45,020 --> 00:18:45,920 Zappy zappy, yeah. 314 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,000 I wish I had a good story to tell you. 315 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,620 How many of you guys have been on YouTube for, like, way too long? 316 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:54,020 Like, you said, you've been on YouTube for a long time. 317 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:58,600 You start on a video you want to watch and you end up, like, three hours later watching a video of a cat do something crazy. 318 00:18:59,380 --> 00:19:04,120 It was kind of like that, but I actually ended on the video of an RFID implant and a TED talk by Emil. 319 00:19:05,360 --> 00:19:06,140 And then I'm here. 320 00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:13,340 So, basically, the thing I want to say at this point is we're sitting up here, but we're no different to the people, you know, next to you. 321 00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:17,480 Like, all it is is we decided to take a plunge into the community. 322 00:19:17,820 --> 00:19:19,660 And it's the nicest place you can be. 323 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,540 The people that make this community good. 324 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:24,840 It's the best thing about it. 325 00:19:26,340 --> 00:19:28,020 Too much alcohol on this side. 326 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,100 But the point is, is you don't need a queue for this. 327 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:44,200 If you decide that, you know, you've been here, you've listened to some talks, go home, do some stuff, hit anyone up. 328 00:19:44,580 --> 00:19:46,080 Everyone is happy to speak to you. 329 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:47,660 There's nothing that you need to be like. 330 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:52,060 You don't need to see a light in the distance to realize that you want to be a biohacker. 331 00:19:54,260 --> 00:19:58,400 What got me into it was the idea of expanding my senses that I mentioned before. 332 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:00,940 I'm an electrical engineer for my pain job. 333 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:08,260 And for an example, shortly after I got my finger implant and I was able to sense magnetic fields, I said, hey, Brian, come over. 334 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,100 We need you to troubleshoot this panel. 335 00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:15,960 This is usually about a 30-minute process involving jabbing a meter into a 230-volt panel for a while. 336 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:17,700 I waved my hand over it. 337 00:20:17,740 --> 00:20:21,980 Within 30 seconds, I was able to diagnose it, flip the correct circuit breaker, and I went on my way. 338 00:20:22,540 --> 00:20:30,140 So my involvement in the community, there was, at the time, no good grinder podcast. 339 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:31,380 So I started one. 340 00:20:33,940 --> 00:20:37,160 My story is not anywhere near as exciting as all of theirs. 341 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:47,220 Basically, it was I know Coop from a local San Antonio hacker meetup, and we had a conversation about getting something started. 342 00:20:47,480 --> 00:20:52,240 And we've worked together for a while now, and so he invited me and kindly allowed me to guest. 343 00:20:52,540 --> 00:20:57,120 I host on the podcast a couple of times, so thanks very much for allowing me that, Coop. 344 00:20:58,220 --> 00:20:59,960 And hopefully you'll keep continuing. 345 00:21:00,380 --> 00:21:03,480 And people are wondering how in the world did I get involved in this. 346 00:21:03,860 --> 00:21:11,320 I went to the first Body Hacks Con in Austin, Texas, because the founder of it was a buddy of mine from Austin Hackers Association. 347 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,480 And I was like, okay, what is biohacking? 348 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:15,940 Where's the shell? 349 00:21:16,620 --> 00:21:18,360 Is there some sort of exploit? 350 00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:20,160 Do I do a SQL injection? 351 00:21:20,940 --> 00:21:22,160 How do I get there? 352 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:22,880 How do I get chromosomes? 353 00:21:23,620 --> 00:21:25,200 What in the world is this? 354 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:31,080 So I went with the expectation of checking it out, because, well, I'm naturally curious. 355 00:21:31,360 --> 00:21:34,480 And then I met Emil, and he was like, hey, do you want to get chipped? 356 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,560 And I was like, well, do you have potato? 357 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:37,540 What do you got? 358 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:38,520 Corn? 359 00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:42,020 I'm not really a chip kind of guy. 360 00:21:42,180 --> 00:21:44,420 And then he showed me the needle, and I was like, heck no. 361 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:45,980 Are you kidding? 362 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,220 Tattoos and piercings are a lot less gigantic and shiny. 363 00:21:52,540 --> 00:21:52,600 How big is that? 364 00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:53,460 Can you get away? 365 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:54,240 Shiny. 366 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:56,240 And then, yes, shiny. 367 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,700 The next day, or later that day, I was like, okay, tell me more about it. 368 00:21:59,740 --> 00:22:00,600 I Googled a little bit. 369 00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:05,160 I have questions, because I used to be a firefighter. 370 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,440 I'm into martial arts. 371 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,080 Am I going to have shrapnel in my hand? 372 00:22:10,420 --> 00:22:18,900 And we talked about it, and he talked about the chicken butter incident, where they injected a chip into a chicken and put it in a hydraulic press. 373 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:20,340 The chip survived. 374 00:22:20,580 --> 00:22:21,400 The chicken didn't. 375 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,700 And we're still mourning the chicken, except it's spreadable. 376 00:22:24,740 --> 00:22:27,980 Needless to say, it made me think, okay, well, that's good. 377 00:22:28,080 --> 00:22:33,220 If my hand doesn't survive, then I can always put the chip in another part of my body, I guess. 378 00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:35,860 Or just put it back in the stump and still have the functionality. 379 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:38,340 Does that count as juicing? 380 00:22:41,700 --> 00:22:42,500 Hopefully not. 381 00:22:45,140 --> 00:22:47,060 I'm not going to be drinking people juice. 382 00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:49,600 But anyway, I went back, and I got two chips. 383 00:22:50,060 --> 00:22:51,380 And then, yeah. 384 00:22:51,380 --> 00:22:53,000 I started playing with them from then on. 385 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:56,580 And no, they weren't potato olés. 386 00:22:57,220 --> 00:23:05,940 So to keep it moving, really briefly, can you tell us about the biohacking arenas that you work in, and any implants or research you've conducted? 387 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:18,100 Okay, so I've done like a million experiments and different projects, and I'd say 99% of them have been failures. 388 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:21,360 So I've done a lot of different things. 389 00:23:21,360 --> 00:23:24,920 Things like controlling body temperature, that was a failure. 390 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,240 I almost died, electrocuted myself in the bathtub on that one. 391 00:23:28,340 --> 00:23:29,180 That was a close call. 392 00:23:29,460 --> 00:23:33,980 Yeah, it's a long story, but I had a bathtub full of ice, and yeah. 393 00:23:34,820 --> 00:23:38,260 That would have been just a weird thing for a paramedic to walk into, you know? 394 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:40,460 Let's see. 395 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:44,420 So I had the shin implant thing that went south on me. 396 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:50,580 It was basically this non-Newtonian foam, like in a rod, like foot-long rod that I had. 397 00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:52,520 I put it into my shins. 398 00:23:52,580 --> 00:23:53,740 It was kind of like a shin armor. 399 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,680 So basically it was flexible until you struck it, and then it became like rock hard. 400 00:23:57,000 --> 00:23:58,340 And I thought, that's awesome. 401 00:23:58,420 --> 00:24:00,660 I will never smack my shins on my coffee table again. 402 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,520 And anyway, but I ended up having to pull those. 403 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:12,900 So there's been a lot of failures, and I feel like at every failure I get like this, well, obviously new knowledge, 404 00:24:12,940 --> 00:24:17,500 or just come back at it at a different angle, things like that. 405 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,680 I've done experiments. 406 00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:25,700 I've done experiments into echolocation, and that's another one that I need to revisit as soon as I finish the Lovetron 9000, 407 00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,620 which is a vibrating pelvic implant for men. 408 00:24:29,620 --> 00:24:33,060 It basically turns them into human vibrators for their partners. 409 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:37,220 Is it available for females as well? 410 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:49,720 I've been asked that a lot, and Jezebel actually ran kind of a prank article based on a design that I had proposed, right? 411 00:24:49,860 --> 00:24:50,920 Like on the spot. 412 00:24:51,360 --> 00:24:54,140 It was, you know, like, okay, I guess if I was going to do that, I would do this. 413 00:24:54,540 --> 00:25:00,940 And I thought, you know, I'm going to get crucified for this because, like, it's a dude talking about a vagina, you know, 414 00:25:00,980 --> 00:25:06,300 and, like, how to make a device for that, and just off the top of his head. 415 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:14,020 And anyway, so they pitched it, like, as coming from a German company for, like, an April Fool's thing, right? 416 00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:16,740 And the responses in the comments were, like, great. 417 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:18,120 They were, like, sign me up. 418 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,540 Like, women were saying, hell yeah. 419 00:25:20,660 --> 00:25:20,880 Like. 420 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:22,380 I'll get this, like, tomorrow. 421 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:23,120 Yeah. 422 00:25:24,460 --> 00:25:24,780 Sweet. 423 00:25:25,460 --> 00:25:25,780 Okay. 424 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:28,700 But so anyway, I don't know. 425 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,020 I haven't got into that part of it yet. 426 00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:33,680 I'm still trying to, like, just accomplish, like, one thing and then move on. 427 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:40,220 I have a tendency just to get distracted, you know, by, you know, like, hit a wall and be like, okay, I don't know how to solve this problem. 428 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,660 Maybe I'll solve it later and then just go on to a new project. 429 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:50,500 So anyway, I kind of try to lately, like, make myself just finish one project at a time. 430 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,820 So it's not as exciting. 431 00:25:53,180 --> 00:25:58,080 It's still, like, waiting for people to do their part and things like that is kind of frustrating. 432 00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:00,060 But anyway, so I'm trying to stay focused. 433 00:26:05,120 --> 00:26:07,420 You are so much more badass than I am. 434 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:07,920 God. 435 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,880 I'm actually a huge wuss when it comes to actually biohacking my own body. 436 00:26:13,820 --> 00:26:17,320 Even for brain stimulation stuff, I do research on neuroscience. 437 00:26:17,580 --> 00:26:20,840 I know that the consequences of doing it are pretty much limited. 438 00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:26,200 It's like, eh, you might burn yourself a little or give yourself a headache if you really, really screw it up. 439 00:26:26,380 --> 00:26:27,780 And even then, I'll try it. 440 00:26:27,820 --> 00:26:32,400 And for the next half hour, I'll just be, like, looking in the mirror, checking to make sure my pupils are equally dilated. 441 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:44,500 I really am much more involved at the level of talking to people and opening discussions and teaching them how to do cool stuff if they have less paranoia than I do. 442 00:26:46,060 --> 00:26:50,760 Yeah, that's ‑‑ I've forgotten a little bit what the question is, but I think I'm just going to hand you the mic. 443 00:26:55,860 --> 00:27:02,700 So the next question we have on our rundown is, what would you tell someone that is thinking about getting started in biohacking? 444 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:04,260 Just do it. 445 00:27:04,380 --> 00:27:05,280 That's my comment. 446 00:27:06,140 --> 00:27:07,400 But research first. 447 00:27:09,260 --> 00:27:10,600 Talk to people. 448 00:27:10,840 --> 00:27:12,480 There's a great community. 449 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:16,460 I have not seen such an inclusive community since longboarding. 450 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:19,220 Skateboarding has the opposite effect. 451 00:27:19,360 --> 00:27:20,100 You get into skateboarding. 452 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:24,600 And if you don't know the names of all the tricks, which are weird names, you're not cool. 453 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:28,060 But in longboarding, people just want to get together and hang out and cruise. 454 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,180 And biohacking was the same way. 455 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:39,940 You show up at a place like this, and I'm scheduled to volunteer certain hours today, and I find myself here anyway, talking to people, just talking to people in the line. 456 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:40,620 And I love it. 457 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,800 And I love telling people my own experiences and telling them what they can hope to achieve. 458 00:27:47,180 --> 00:27:50,080 I was just surprised that, you know, I was wondering if there were really ‑‑ 459 00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,420 You can do long needles in longboarding, too. 460 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:53,740 Never mind. 461 00:27:53,820 --> 00:27:54,340 Don't answer that. 462 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:54,820 Never mind. 463 00:27:55,140 --> 00:27:55,940 Moving on. 464 00:27:56,060 --> 00:27:56,460 Moving on. 465 00:27:57,020 --> 00:27:58,260 Down to the end of the line. 466 00:27:58,620 --> 00:27:58,800 Wow. 467 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,000 Yeah. 468 00:28:01,100 --> 00:28:01,480 Sorry. 469 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:02,080 Do you have a question? 470 00:28:02,220 --> 00:28:02,520 Yeah. 471 00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:09,220 So I'm concerned that in the future commercially available bioimplants may have security and privacy concerns. 472 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:16,020 What can the biohacking community do to help ensure that in the future it's safe for humans? 473 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:17,480 Yeah. 474 00:28:17,500 --> 00:28:18,720 Well, we have this in our rundown, actually. 475 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:19,240 The legislation. 476 00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:20,140 Cool. 477 00:28:20,260 --> 00:28:20,700 Of biohacking. 478 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,080 Bear with me for two seconds. 479 00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:23,700 And if we don't answer it, jump back up. 480 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:25,140 I'll definitely do that for you. 481 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:26,640 Please hold us accountable. 482 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,180 Can I just ask people in the room who considers themselves a biohacker now? 483 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:33,120 Show of hands. 484 00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:35,020 Okay. 485 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:39,240 So those people that didn't put their hand up, you should consider why. 486 00:28:40,180 --> 00:28:45,280 Because every day you're doing things like if you have a Fitbit, et cetera, et cetera, you could be considered in the spectrum of biohacking. 487 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,400 So what I'd say is for the people to get into biohacking, you're already there. 488 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,200 You just don't know it. 489 00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:50,560 Right? 490 00:28:50,620 --> 00:28:56,700 So it's how far down the rabbit hole you'd like to go in comparison to, oh, well, what do I need to do? 491 00:28:56,760 --> 00:28:58,260 You don't need to have an implant to be a biohacker. 492 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:10,040 We've got several people in the room that wouldn't have an implant and that contribute much more than what I do or what other people do to the whole sphere of knowledge. 493 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:17,200 So for those people that didn't put their hand up, hopefully by the time you finish today or by the time of DEF CON, you consider yourself as part of the group. 494 00:29:20,940 --> 00:29:22,580 I forgot what the question is again. 495 00:29:22,660 --> 00:29:23,060 I'm so sorry. 496 00:29:23,460 --> 00:29:24,420 We should help you with this. 497 00:29:25,060 --> 00:29:26,660 Oh, starting biohacking. 498 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,220 What advice do you have for BIMB biohackers? 499 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:39,760 I would say to be enthusiastic, but don't get disappointed when you realize that science is really complicated. 500 00:29:41,820 --> 00:29:49,380 Stick with it because as you go adjusting your expectations for it, you get really excited about science. 501 00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:52,220 It's really simple things, and that's super great. 502 00:29:52,620 --> 00:30:00,420 Maybe you're going into it with more information than I was when I started, but I started out being like, oh, man, I'm going to read sentences directly from the brain. 503 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,540 That didn't happen. 504 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,500 That's potentially never going to happen in that form. 505 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,840 But now I'm like, oh, man, I can tell when I blink. 506 00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:10,760 Awesome. 507 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:17,660 Yeah, it's just don't forget how cool what you're doing is, even if it's just a little thing. 508 00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:19,360 One question. 509 00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:32,380 I interviewed a neuroscience researcher, and he found that transcranial direct current stimulation was useful for depression most of the time, but he found some cases where it didn't work. 510 00:30:32,460 --> 00:30:33,340 It was just the opposite. 511 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:42,280 And ultimately, and he was smart enough to look through the data, it was the people who were left-handed, and the fix was as simple as reversing the electrodes. 512 00:30:42,560 --> 00:30:49,380 So my question for you guys is how variable are people in terms of responses to technologies like this? 513 00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:49,540 Like that. 514 00:30:50,660 --> 00:30:52,000 Everybody's a unique snowflake. 515 00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:55,960 I tried TDCS, and it didn't do anything for me as a stroke survivor. 516 00:30:57,460 --> 00:30:57,860 Right. 517 00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:01,880 Actually, I used TDCS to help me kind of fall asleep. 518 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:05,460 Like at night, my thoughts would just be racing, you know. 519 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:11,220 And so in the past, I have used it to like, it could be placebo. 520 00:31:11,220 --> 00:31:11,880 I don't know. 521 00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:15,700 But there's a lot of data there that, you know, shows it's completely legit. 522 00:31:15,860 --> 00:31:17,760 So I didn't spend too much time on it. 523 00:31:17,820 --> 00:31:19,300 But, you know, as far as. 524 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,380 You know, how individualized, like, the whole thing is. 525 00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:26,940 I mean, biology is way individualized, right? 526 00:31:27,060 --> 00:31:31,580 I mean, there's some people that can have some kinds of metal in their body and it doesn't reject. 527 00:31:31,780 --> 00:31:34,800 There's some people that, you know, that's going to mess them up. 528 00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:37,160 Some people are allergic to different things. 529 00:31:37,340 --> 00:31:42,700 So, yeah, basically, if you want a cyborg future, you've got to go at it. 530 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:45,540 Or just like a mutant future, right? 531 00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,400 With, like, genetic alterations. 532 00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,320 You need to basically go. 533 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:52,060 Go at it from, like, an individualized perspective. 534 00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:55,240 And, you know, find what's going to be good for you. 535 00:31:55,420 --> 00:32:04,500 I think that one of the reasons that this isn't just going to happen, like, as, like, a one-size-fits-all, here's a product, you know, buy it and go use it thing, is because of that. 536 00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:06,020 Like, you know, what you're saying. 537 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,820 It's because it is individualized. 538 00:32:07,940 --> 00:32:12,740 So, which is going to mean, if that's something you want, you've got to get involved. 539 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,520 Yeah, for TDCS specifically. 540 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,760 Everybody's brain is a little bit different. 541 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:25,080 Things like your handedness can change things in unexpected ways. 542 00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:27,080 Everybody's skull thickness is different. 543 00:32:27,660 --> 00:32:29,980 The distribution of skull thickness is different. 544 00:32:30,060 --> 00:32:32,280 And all of those affect the current flow through the brain. 545 00:32:32,660 --> 00:32:42,460 Things like how much exercise you were doing before TDCS, how much caffeine you've had, how much caffeine you routinely have compared to the day where you tried it, all affect the outcome. 546 00:32:42,980 --> 00:32:48,980 So, that's one of the nice things about biohacking is that if you do want to see a particular effect, you can play around with it on your own body. 547 00:32:49,400 --> 00:33:01,800 And, of course, it's not going to be the kind of thing you can really publish in a medical journal because there's placebo wrapped into there, there's your own personal biases wrapped into there, but if you find something that works for you, then, I mean, that's great, right? 548 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:04,920 Yeah, if you have a question. 549 00:33:05,340 --> 00:33:11,680 Kind of on that same topic, you only have one, I mean, you can only experiment on yourself. 550 00:33:11,780 --> 00:33:12,900 You don't exactly have a control group. 551 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:18,380 So, what can you do to apply some more scientific rigor to what you're doing with your biohacking experiments? 552 00:33:19,740 --> 00:33:37,200 So, back in, some years ago at the university in San Antonio, I worked for a professor who was actually researching the way that current flows through the brain using doped rat slices and then also reptilian brain slices as well. 553 00:33:37,340 --> 00:33:43,380 And so, it was basically using that technology to try to trace and provide that information. 554 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:49,300 So, there is work being done that allows for scientific rigor among other ways. 555 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:54,640 So, it's not necessarily exactly the same, but it provides clues, to say the least. 556 00:33:56,540 --> 00:33:56,980 Cool. 557 00:33:57,260 --> 00:34:02,500 I'm conscious of time, and there's two things that I really want to get out to you guys before we finish. 558 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,780 One is legislation, and one is biohacking in the mainstream. 559 00:34:06,140 --> 00:34:09,560 So, hopefully, it's okay if we can just go for those, Coops. 560 00:34:10,180 --> 00:34:10,620 Cool. 561 00:34:10,740 --> 00:34:11,180 Cool. 562 00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:19,380 So, in terms of legislation, the gentleman raised it earlier, I kind of find it ironic that we live in a modern day of technology. 563 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:24,100 And we celebrate freedom of expression and diversity. 564 00:34:24,900 --> 00:34:32,900 And in the same breath, it seems like we create legislation that isolates a lot and alienates groups like biohacking, especially. 565 00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,140 And this is a new section of the world, right? 566 00:34:37,180 --> 00:34:39,460 So, we've got questions that are not answered yet. 567 00:34:39,540 --> 00:34:48,700 And I think now would be the first time to sort of think about it individually and as a group, especially with the panel that we have, to see what challenges we face as a community. 568 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:53,000 What we can do to protect our own interests and the interests of human beings. 569 00:34:53,400 --> 00:34:57,280 And also to ask the question of, does the right to augment exist? 570 00:35:05,420 --> 00:35:12,580 Okay, so the question is like, okay, so the right, I feel that the right to augment is like an absolute human right. 571 00:35:12,980 --> 00:35:13,460 Okay? 572 00:35:13,820 --> 00:35:17,200 You're born with whatever meat you are born with. 573 00:35:17,620 --> 00:35:19,380 And to say that you can't modify yourself. 574 00:35:19,380 --> 00:35:24,100 You can't buy your own meat or ingest whatever chemicals or whatever, right? 575 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:29,020 Or, you know, not bear a child or whatever. 576 00:35:29,220 --> 00:35:29,400 Okay? 577 00:35:29,540 --> 00:35:31,560 I think it's your body. 578 00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:33,340 You should be able to do whatever you want with it. 579 00:35:35,260 --> 00:35:40,020 Like as far as like the regulatory side, was that the first part of the question? 580 00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:41,180 This shot is hitting me hard. 581 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:44,040 So, after last night, I know. 582 00:35:44,780 --> 00:35:45,180 Anyway. 583 00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:47,900 Yeah, so as far as the legislation goes. 584 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:49,080 It's basically legislation. 585 00:35:49,380 --> 00:35:52,780 The reason for biohacking, in my, this is my personal opinion, is ultimately it's bullshit. 586 00:35:52,980 --> 00:36:00,380 Because if you have like a black hat biohacker, right, and earlier I was described as a black hat biohacker. 587 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:00,780 I'm not. 588 00:36:01,420 --> 00:36:05,020 I've sometimes described myself as a black hat transhumanist, which is a little bit different. 589 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:16,440 Anyway, but a black hat biohacker, right, who is making bioweapons or is a bioterrorist, right, are they going to be stopped by any kind of like oversight or like a legislation or anything like that? 590 00:36:16,500 --> 00:36:17,580 Absolutely not, right? 591 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,640 So. 592 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,920 Basically, I think that like it's a futile kind of thing. 593 00:36:24,140 --> 00:36:29,080 I think that if anything, we've seen that the FDA has like slowed us the fuck down. 594 00:36:29,380 --> 00:36:34,060 We're coming into an age of exponentially advancing technology, right? 595 00:36:34,140 --> 00:36:38,020 The rate that things are advancing is just like out of control. 596 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:45,700 By the time you get done with like FDA regulatory bullshit, right, to get a device approved, I mean, your technology is going to be obsolete. 597 00:36:45,860 --> 00:36:47,700 And people have already got other stuff in the pipeline. 598 00:36:49,880 --> 00:37:06,340 And I have a jump on that, because as a dad, I understand very fully your own battles with right to augmentation, and I know you're under some bit of a gag order still left. 599 00:37:06,620 --> 00:37:10,500 Is there any way you can share a little bit with us on that? 600 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:18,440 Because, you know, I'm lucky in the current situation I'm in as a biohacker not to have to face as much. 601 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:19,200 But I feel. 602 00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:41,100 A lot and empathize a lot with what you're going through and continuing and just want, if you haven't already heard the special episode, we haven't come back and share more with us on it, but so basically, I have two kids and I had shared custody with my ex with them, like a week on week off kind of a thing. 603 00:37:41,860 --> 00:37:45,460 Anyhow, I did one procedure that was a little bit gritty. 604 00:37:45,580 --> 00:37:48,280 It was on YouTube for like, I don't know, a couple seconds. 605 00:37:49,200 --> 00:38:00,120 Until it got flagged for copyright infringement because like I had some music playing in the distant background and they're like, oh, my God, this is anyway, the bots flagged it like 38 views. 606 00:38:00,980 --> 00:38:04,740 Basically, it was the shin implant procedure that I was getting done. 607 00:38:04,860 --> 00:38:06,040 I had footage of it. 608 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:12,160 And basically, this was used as justification to remove kids from my custody. 609 00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:18,300 And I've been involved in basically a like a gritty legal battle for about a year now over this. 610 00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:31,040 I mean, you've got people online that are my kids didn't see this procedure, by the way, or the video, but you've got people online that are doing like some really nasty, like cyst, like popping things. 611 00:38:31,220 --> 00:38:31,440 Right. 612 00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:34,180 And like filming them and they people love them. 613 00:38:34,260 --> 00:38:34,380 Right. 614 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:38,140 It's like, I don't know, there's something satisfying about them. 615 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:42,560 But I mean, whatever, there's all kinds of stuff like on YouTube or whatever. 616 00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:48,720 I mean, this is just something that was like, not I wouldn't even rate it as like being that extreme either. 617 00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:48,980 But. 618 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:58,440 Basically, I was in the situation where it's like, you know, you're an unfit parent because you're involved in some form of masochism or self-mutilation or something like that. 619 00:38:58,580 --> 00:39:01,980 And basically, I think in a major city, this would be no problem. 620 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:12,920 But I live in some backwoods place and I face people that just like they think it's strange, abnormal behavior, and therefore I'm an unfit parent. 621 00:39:13,060 --> 00:39:17,480 But anyway, so that's the situation that. 622 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:19,100 And where can we go to? 623 00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:19,640 Support you? 624 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,040 What's the website address again? 625 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:38,060 So I did start a GoFundMe campaign, but I actually and I am and I had a great response from the biohacking community to strangers. 626 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:49,080 I've never met who looked at this, the transgender community, a lot of people that like I just didn't expect to like sympathize with my plight, I guess, contribute to a GoFundMe campaign. 627 00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:55,280 And I think the GoFundMe campaign was like a forward slash cyborg dad or something like that. 628 00:39:57,900 --> 00:40:04,220 Basically, I do kind of have a gag order on the case itself, but I will be hearing a decision on September 1st. 629 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,420 I don't know how it's going to turn out. 630 00:40:07,180 --> 00:40:15,000 It's been, you know, nearly a year of like legal battles, thousands and thousands of dollars spent and just lots of bullshit. 631 00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:19,060 But hopefully people in the future don't think that I'm a gay. 632 00:40:19,060 --> 00:40:23,920 I don't face as much of this, you know, as this kind of thing like starts to mainstream. 633 00:40:25,260 --> 00:40:26,840 That's what I'm hoping for everyone else. 634 00:40:26,980 --> 00:40:33,660 But if anyone in the audience like ever, if this ever happens to anyone, just, I don't know, contact me. 635 00:40:33,780 --> 00:40:35,760 It's a rough, rough process. 636 00:40:35,980 --> 00:40:38,120 But anyway, yeah. 637 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:43,980 Question for Brian. 638 00:40:44,340 --> 00:40:48,380 As an electrical engineer with finger magnets. 639 00:40:49,060 --> 00:40:55,220 Do you have much of a risk that when a circuit powers on, your finger could be pulled into a live coil or something? 640 00:40:55,780 --> 00:40:57,020 In my field, no. 641 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:58,480 I've never had to worry about that. 642 00:40:58,740 --> 00:41:01,380 I've never actually had any problems with it. 643 00:41:01,460 --> 00:41:04,720 I did have one finger magnet that had to be removed because the coating was corrupted. 644 00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,780 But professionally, I've had zero problems with it. 645 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:11,960 I also have RFID and NFC tags. 646 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:13,260 Again, no problems. 647 00:41:13,340 --> 00:41:14,920 No problems with MRIs. 648 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:15,600 I've never had an MRI. 649 00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,360 No problems with airport security. 650 00:41:17,700 --> 00:41:18,640 Anything like that. 651 00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:29,800 So, now the next question is one that we go to a lot. 652 00:41:30,660 --> 00:41:33,360 Just like dealing with being a parent. 653 00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:36,860 Just dealing with muggles, as you might say. 654 00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:44,200 Everybody else that doesn't know anything about the scene hasn't been educated in that realm. 655 00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:48,460 How do we get biohacking more mainstream, more accepted? 656 00:41:48,460 --> 00:41:51,140 So that we don't have to fight for our kids. 657 00:41:51,260 --> 00:41:52,840 So we don't have to fight for our augmentation. 658 00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:56,940 Because should it be as simple as ear piercing? 659 00:41:58,700 --> 00:42:00,640 We maybe shouldn't call them muggles. 660 00:42:03,420 --> 00:42:03,860 Sorry. 661 00:42:04,060 --> 00:42:05,640 It's just the easiest term. 662 00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:06,320 I know. 663 00:42:06,380 --> 00:42:07,040 I'm just teasing. 664 00:42:08,300 --> 00:42:12,560 I very genuinely think that information is the way to go. 665 00:42:12,620 --> 00:42:18,440 Making it really easy for people to access the information they need to understand what's going on in the biohack. 666 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,340 The biohacking community, try it out if they want to. 667 00:42:20,380 --> 00:42:21,800 Not try it out if they don't want to. 668 00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:31,100 But at the very least, not be scared of it as like this edgy, dark thing that people are doing in alleyways with self-mutilation. 669 00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:37,780 I think the more information we get out there about it not being that and for people seeing how accessible it is, 670 00:42:37,940 --> 00:42:43,540 the less of a barrier there's going to be between the biohacking and non-biohacking community. 671 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:46,460 Does anyone else want to add to that? 672 00:42:53,060 --> 00:42:55,500 So there's two things I have to say about biohacking. 673 00:42:55,680 --> 00:43:00,640 One is it's a community where people are willing to communicate and they want to talk to people. 674 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,940 And the opposite side of that is there is so much fear mongering. 675 00:43:05,100 --> 00:43:12,020 Every time I open my mouth about having an RFID, I run the risk and it happens often that people go, 676 00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:13,180 oh my gosh, number of the beast. 677 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,100 Oh, you're the devil. 678 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:17,660 This is revelations and you're bringing about the end times. 679 00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:18,000 I'm not. 680 00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,900 I would like to lay claim that I'm the world's only squeamish Catholic grinder. 681 00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:29,600 I've been to church with implants in my hand. 682 00:43:29,660 --> 00:43:31,400 They've put Eucharist directly in my palm. 683 00:43:31,620 --> 00:43:33,040 Nothing burst into flames. 684 00:43:33,460 --> 00:43:34,920 The building didn't collapse. 685 00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:36,000 Everyone was safe. 686 00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,560 So you weren't losing lipo at the time? 687 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:46,540 So were you thinking of constant fully transforming into the body and host? 688 00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:48,800 Transplantation. 689 00:43:49,060 --> 00:43:49,820 This is not fair. 690 00:43:50,380 --> 00:43:51,900 Sorry, I went to seminary. 691 00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:52,880 Wrong speech. 692 00:43:54,540 --> 00:43:56,100 Yeah, nor not the devil. 693 00:43:56,700 --> 00:43:57,720 If you didn't notice. 694 00:43:58,760 --> 00:43:59,900 Sorry about the horns. 695 00:44:00,220 --> 00:44:04,640 So my answer for biohacking in the mainstream is not one that's going to win me any fans here. 696 00:44:05,260 --> 00:44:07,080 Likely I'll probably be kicked out after the talk. 697 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:11,960 But I actually went on a rant on one of our episodes about biohacking in the mainstream. 698 00:44:12,160 --> 00:44:16,320 And I said that the problem was with the people in biohacking. 699 00:44:16,320 --> 00:44:19,840 So we work in a very close-knit community. 700 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,780 I hope I don't say anything by the way that we only say over in the UK. 701 00:44:22,900 --> 00:44:23,980 Because that's happened to me a few times. 702 00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:24,780 People are like, what the hell? 703 00:44:25,180 --> 00:44:26,200 Speak American. 704 00:44:26,700 --> 00:44:27,620 Yeah, I'm trying. 705 00:44:27,820 --> 00:44:29,480 I keep saying I'm so knackered. 706 00:44:29,620 --> 00:44:31,240 And people are like, I have no idea what you're saying. 707 00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,340 That's exhausting. 708 00:44:33,540 --> 00:44:35,200 We need some subtitles or something. 709 00:44:35,340 --> 00:44:35,980 Subtitles for this Englishman. 710 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:40,800 But basically what I was saying is because we work in such a small environment. 711 00:44:41,140 --> 00:44:42,560 And it's a very, very close environment. 712 00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:43,620 Everyone sort of knows everyone. 713 00:44:43,660 --> 00:44:45,020 Everyone knows what they're contributing to. 714 00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:45,640 Which is great. 715 00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:47,100 This is a major advantage. 716 00:44:47,340 --> 00:44:51,780 But at the same time, it's almost like it can almost be seen as a cult. 717 00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:52,360 It's not a cult. 718 00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:54,180 Don't misquote me. 719 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,320 But almost like for people that are out in the rest of the world. 720 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,180 It's seen as like, oh, these guys meet up and do this thing at DEF CON. 721 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,240 There's a thing they do in a room. 722 00:45:04,420 --> 00:45:06,020 And they're doing all these implants and things like this. 723 00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:08,500 It's because we're not that open. 724 00:45:08,820 --> 00:45:10,260 And we do try to be. 725 00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:11,000 We've got forums. 726 00:45:11,180 --> 00:45:14,160 But you won't go to the forums if you're from the general audience. 727 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:15,380 And to be honest. 728 00:45:15,380 --> 00:45:18,120 I wish that we were a bit more. 729 00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:19,000 We need to take responsibility. 730 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,740 Everyone in the room and everyone out of the room. 731 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,180 To sort of drive it home to the mainstream. 732 00:45:24,340 --> 00:45:26,080 They're not going to come to us at all. 733 00:45:26,260 --> 00:45:28,200 So we have to go to them, unfortunately. 734 00:45:31,580 --> 00:45:33,920 Just going back to the mainstream concept again. 735 00:45:34,240 --> 00:45:35,300 It was mentioned earlier. 736 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,480 I'm not quite certain who made the statement. 737 00:45:37,860 --> 00:45:43,440 But it has to do with the fact that there are already people who have biomedical devices implanted. 738 00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:44,860 And it's through. 739 00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:46,640 A more established channel. 740 00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,000 But is it really that different? 741 00:45:49,180 --> 00:45:51,760 What it boils down to from this person's perspective. 742 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:53,980 Is that people are people. 743 00:45:54,260 --> 00:45:57,900 And people are very much concerned about the things they're not familiar with. 744 00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:58,580 Or that are different. 745 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:03,520 And it's not unreasonable to assume that folks are going to be extra cautious. 746 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:08,040 And it's one thing to go to a medical professional facility. 747 00:46:08,340 --> 00:46:10,660 Or a facility hosting medical professionals. 748 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:12,280 Who are approved in all sorts of ways. 749 00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,220 Versus someone with the equivalent. 750 00:46:14,220 --> 00:46:16,280 Of a Raspberry Pi like device. 751 00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,140 That they're doing on the weekends. 752 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:18,740 You know. 753 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,120 Just for funsies to see what they do. 754 00:46:21,060 --> 00:46:23,080 Folks are going to do what they're going to do. 755 00:46:23,460 --> 00:46:27,580 The challenge comes in being human to one another. 756 00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:30,020 More so perhaps. 757 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,940 But the feeling of oppression may be the same on both sides. 758 00:46:34,600 --> 00:46:35,400 Just a thought. 759 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:43,600 So I think there are some things working in our favor for mainstream acceptance. 760 00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:44,460 One of them like. 761 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:46,720 Are most people in the audience Americans? 762 00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:49,800 Probably. 763 00:46:49,940 --> 00:46:50,100 Okay. 764 00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:50,440 All right. 765 00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:51,640 We have a shit health system. 766 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:52,960 I think it's fair to say. 767 00:46:53,240 --> 00:46:55,360 Where basically if you have a condition. 768 00:46:55,860 --> 00:46:58,640 You can just plan on medical bankruptcy at some point. 769 00:46:58,800 --> 00:46:59,120 Right? 770 00:46:59,260 --> 00:46:59,880 I mean it's just. 771 00:47:00,180 --> 00:47:01,040 If you want help. 772 00:47:01,220 --> 00:47:02,680 It's going to cost you a lot of money. 773 00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:04,560 Like a surgery that cost $4,000. 774 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:05,740 Like back in 2005. 775 00:47:06,140 --> 00:47:08,520 Is now like $45,000 at least. 776 00:47:08,780 --> 00:47:09,060 Right? 777 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,420 It's just the prices have gone crazy. 778 00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:13,040 So we have people. 779 00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:14,680 That basically are looking to. 780 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:16,080 I don't want to say save money. 781 00:47:16,220 --> 00:47:16,660 But I mean. 782 00:47:16,660 --> 00:47:17,440 They're desperate. 783 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:17,740 Right? 784 00:47:17,820 --> 00:47:18,620 They don't want to like. 785 00:47:18,940 --> 00:47:19,680 Sacrifice everything. 786 00:47:19,900 --> 00:47:21,180 They have a strange condition. 787 00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:23,900 They're getting involved in their own health care. 788 00:47:24,100 --> 00:47:24,540 And like. 789 00:47:25,140 --> 00:47:25,660 Researching stuff. 790 00:47:26,060 --> 00:47:26,540 And like. 791 00:47:26,900 --> 00:47:27,680 Actually proposing. 792 00:47:27,820 --> 00:47:29,260 Maybe their own interventions. 793 00:47:29,740 --> 00:47:30,140 Which. 794 00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:32,360 They're not doctors. 795 00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:33,040 But I mean. 796 00:47:33,240 --> 00:47:33,640 Shit. 797 00:47:33,660 --> 00:47:34,100 They're involved. 798 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:34,780 Okay. 799 00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:36,180 So I get emails all the time. 800 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:36,760 From people. 801 00:47:36,940 --> 00:47:37,580 Like after I. 802 00:47:38,140 --> 00:47:38,980 After I made these. 803 00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:40,080 Headphone implants. 804 00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:40,560 I get. 805 00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,940 I get emails from people. 806 00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:42,360 That say. 807 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:44,500 I hear voices in my head. 808 00:47:44,780 --> 00:47:45,580 And I think that. 809 00:47:45,740 --> 00:47:46,960 Whatever implant you made. 810 00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:48,220 Has been like. 811 00:47:48,540 --> 00:47:49,520 Put in my head. 812 00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:50,300 And I hear these voices. 813 00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:50,660 And this. 814 00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:50,800 That. 815 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:51,000 Right? 816 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:51,520 And. 817 00:47:52,420 --> 00:47:52,780 Normally. 818 00:47:53,220 --> 00:47:53,580 Normally. 819 00:47:53,720 --> 00:47:55,020 My response is like. 820 00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:55,320 Okay. 821 00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:55,760 Oh. 822 00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:56,960 Here's some quacks. 823 00:47:57,100 --> 00:47:57,360 Right? 824 00:47:57,400 --> 00:47:57,660 Like. 825 00:47:58,060 --> 00:47:58,580 You know. 826 00:47:58,620 --> 00:47:58,800 Whatever. 827 00:47:58,900 --> 00:47:59,060 Like. 828 00:47:59,340 --> 00:47:59,960 Sorry bro. 829 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:02,240 Hope that goes away. 830 00:48:02,420 --> 00:48:03,520 And then I thought about it more. 831 00:48:03,700 --> 00:48:03,920 And I. 832 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:04,300 And. 833 00:48:04,300 --> 00:48:06,280 And I started replying to them. 834 00:48:06,500 --> 00:48:06,860 I said. 835 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,040 Okay. 836 00:48:07,100 --> 00:48:07,220 Well. 837 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:07,560 That's. 838 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:09,660 I got this idea. 839 00:48:09,860 --> 00:48:10,220 Right? 840 00:48:10,700 --> 00:48:11,060 Basically. 841 00:48:11,140 --> 00:48:12,320 If you're hearing voices in your head. 842 00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:12,760 And you're thinking. 843 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,080 They're being broadcast from. 844 00:48:14,220 --> 00:48:14,960 Some station. 845 00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:16,300 You know. 846 00:48:16,300 --> 00:48:17,700 Some military base somewhere. 847 00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:18,040 Right? 848 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:19,820 That means that. 849 00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:20,800 Something is being broadcast. 850 00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,480 A wave is. 851 00:48:21,980 --> 00:48:22,940 Coming from somewhere. 852 00:48:23,620 --> 00:48:23,980 Right? 853 00:48:24,860 --> 00:48:25,480 So basically. 854 00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:26,300 I put them in a situation. 855 00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:26,780 Where I said. 856 00:48:26,820 --> 00:48:27,940 Let's identify these bands. 857 00:48:28,300 --> 00:48:28,660 Of. 858 00:48:29,240 --> 00:48:29,600 Frequency. 859 00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:30,840 And see if we can like. 860 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:32,100 Block them. 861 00:48:32,100 --> 00:48:32,280 Right? 862 00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:33,820 So go to an underground parking garage. 863 00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:35,240 That'll take out. 864 00:48:35,260 --> 00:48:35,780 These bands. 865 00:48:36,060 --> 00:48:36,340 Right? 866 00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:37,540 So we've eliminated that. 867 00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,980 And I put them in a position. 868 00:48:39,180 --> 00:48:39,260 Where. 869 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:40,060 They start. 870 00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:41,260 All these different tests. 871 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,400 I got like a series of emails. 872 00:48:42,500 --> 00:48:42,820 Where it's like. 873 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:44,140 You know. 874 00:48:44,200 --> 00:48:45,200 Here's all the different things. 875 00:48:45,260 --> 00:48:45,900 That we're going to go through. 876 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:48,420 Now they're biohacking. 877 00:48:48,620 --> 00:48:49,580 Now they have a problem. 878 00:48:51,640 --> 00:48:52,380 At the end. 879 00:48:52,580 --> 00:48:53,940 They're just going to have to go to a doctor. 880 00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:54,900 But they've ruled out. 881 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:55,820 A lot of different things. 882 00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,080 And they're going to come to the conclusion. 883 00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:57,640 Themselves. 884 00:48:58,100 --> 00:48:58,420 Technically. 885 00:48:59,140 --> 00:48:59,680 I am. 886 00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:01,040 Practicing medicine. 887 00:49:01,260 --> 00:49:01,920 Without a license. 888 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:02,080 But. 889 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:02,520 Fuck it. 890 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,320 So I think. 891 00:49:04,420 --> 00:49:05,140 There's a lot of people. 892 00:49:05,220 --> 00:49:05,820 Who want to get involved. 893 00:49:05,940 --> 00:49:06,440 In their conditions. 894 00:49:06,660 --> 00:49:07,340 And things like that. 895 00:49:07,500 --> 00:49:07,680 And. 896 00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:09,880 We'll become biohackers. 897 00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:10,660 That way. 898 00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:12,360 Cool. 899 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:12,780 We're. 900 00:49:12,940 --> 00:49:13,300 We're. 901 00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:14,300 We're out of time. 902 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:15,360 So I just want to. 903 00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:16,260 Wrap up with a. 904 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:16,800 With a plea. 905 00:49:17,020 --> 00:49:17,680 Kind of thing. 906 00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:19,080 The chance to speak here. 907 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:20,320 Is an awesome chance for me. 908 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:20,600 So. 909 00:49:20,860 --> 00:49:21,760 I just want to say. 910 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:22,940 To everyone here. 911 00:49:23,060 --> 00:49:23,660 And everyone outside. 912 00:49:23,860 --> 00:49:24,360 As I was saying. 913 00:49:26,020 --> 00:49:26,980 I kind of. 914 00:49:27,020 --> 00:49:27,480 Have like. 915 00:49:27,580 --> 00:49:28,020 Three things. 916 00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:29,040 Like. 917 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,080 My plea is. 918 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:32,500 The target of. 919 00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,200 Media rhetoric. 920 00:49:33,720 --> 00:49:34,080 Don't. 921 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:35,120 Outcast us. 922 00:49:35,220 --> 00:49:36,060 And don't legislate. 923 00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:36,520 Against us. 924 00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:38,240 Alright. 925 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:38,680 We're. 926 00:49:38,740 --> 00:49:39,520 We're out of time. 927 00:49:39,660 --> 00:49:40,100 I'm sorry. 928 00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:41,460 That's it. 929 00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:42,480 This is it. 930 00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:42,800 We. 931 00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:43,880 Want to thank you. 932 00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:44,280 For coming. 933 00:49:44,460 --> 00:49:44,640 We. 934 00:49:50,820 --> 00:49:52,000 We have a standard closing. 935 00:49:52,280 --> 00:49:53,080 But we're not doing that. 936 00:49:53,120 --> 00:49:53,720 We're out of time. 937 00:49:53,860 --> 00:49:54,080 We. 938 00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:54,760 Definitely. 939 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,260 Want to say. 940 00:49:55,380 --> 00:49:55,580 That. 941 00:49:55,620 --> 00:49:55,840 You know. 942 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:56,100 Society. 943 00:49:56,380 --> 00:49:56,740 Considers. 944 00:49:56,740 --> 00:49:57,420 Everyone here. 945 00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:58,020 At DEFCON. 946 00:49:58,400 --> 00:49:58,760 Dangerous. 947 00:49:58,760 --> 00:49:59,020 Here. 948 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:02,500 We're invested. 949 00:50:02,620 --> 00:50:03,060 In the future. 950 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:04,140 We're seeking. 951 00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:04,660 To find it. 952 00:50:04,700 --> 00:50:05,260 With every implant. 953 00:50:05,540 --> 00:50:05,900 Procedure. 954 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:06,360 Project. 955 00:50:06,600 --> 00:50:06,960 Experiment. 956 00:50:07,100 --> 00:50:07,620 Or software. 957 00:50:07,900 --> 00:50:08,260 Program. 958 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:08,860 That we make. 959 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:09,840 And we need. 960 00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:10,580 Y'all. 961 00:50:10,820 --> 00:50:11,760 And everyone else. 962 00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:12,200 Here. 963 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:13,320 To help with that. 964 00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:14,120 Because. 965 00:50:14,580 --> 00:50:15,340 None of us. 966 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:15,960 Are really. 967 00:50:16,020 --> 00:50:16,300 That. 968 00:50:16,860 --> 00:50:17,220 Different. 969 00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:17,700 From y'all. 970 00:50:17,780 --> 00:50:18,420 We're just curious. 971 00:50:18,540 --> 00:50:18,940 That's why. 972 00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:19,380 We took that. 973 00:50:19,420 --> 00:50:19,880 Extra step. 974 00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:21,340 If you want to. 975 00:50:21,420 --> 00:50:22,040 Want to help. 976 00:50:22,180 --> 00:50:22,900 Want to get involved. 977 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:24,880 Come find us. 978 00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:25,800 Here in person. 979 00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:26,380 If you're not. 980 00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:27,440 Comfortable with it. 981 00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:28,420 Find us online. 982 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:29,760 We're out there. 983 00:50:30,100 --> 00:50:31,000 It's not that hard. 984 00:50:31,060 --> 00:50:31,340 To Google. 985 00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:32,740 Can you compute. 986 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:33,640 Thank you for coming.