WEBVTT 00:09.070 --> 00:16.650 So I'm fortunate enough to have met a lot of physicians who are interested in bridging that gap between their world and ours. 00:16.650 --> 00:18.850 And I've had the opportunity to work with them in the past. 00:18.850 --> 00:29.110 We did some research in the past, DEF CON 22, I think, on 9-1-1 security, presented on that, and continue to work through things like I Am the Cavalry to talk about health care and information security. 00:29.210 --> 00:30.170 And that's been awesome. 00:30.170 --> 00:42.470 Ryan and I have a shared background in that we both went to the Air Force Academy, we both did space and missiles and some other stuff, and he came to me with the idea of this application and this concept, and we said, heck, let's run with it. 00:44.250 --> 00:45.590 So we did this part. 00:49.100 --> 00:54.790 Okay, I already covered most of this, I was just trying to feel like I was going to make a microphone . 00:54.890 --> 00:56.070 This is annoying. 00:56.510 --> 01:00.390 If I don't face the camera, is that okay? 01:02.370 --> 01:08.310 Okay, so, just to reiterate, it seems like we're all familiar with this technology, so let's press, let's get right into it . 01:08.310 --> 01:08.970 Slide. 01:10.990 --> 01:14.130 Oh, no, I'll take this. 01:14.170 --> 01:20.870 So over the last, I mean, these are pretty current, 6 months, 7 months, we've just seen hack after hack. 01:21.150 --> 01:31.610 So this is something we were trying to address with this sort of relatively simple system for protecting our health care records, our health care transactions, our health care communication. 01:33.090 --> 01:39.930 This is going to happen again, this is going to continue happening, and one of these days it's going to hit a system that everyone uses, like Epic or Cerner. 01:39.930 --> 01:41.770 Anyone familiar with Epic or Cerner in here? 01:41.770 --> 01:43.330 Okay , good, very good. 01:43.350 --> 01:43.950 Okay. 01:43.970 --> 01:47.570 And when that happens, I mean, it's going to be a shit storm. 01:47.570 --> 01:54.390 I mean, there's really nothing you can do because there's no redundant comm built in, there's no, there's no plan B. 01:55.590 --> 02:02.770 This system, TriGraph, what we're building now is not going to be that plan B yet, but we hope that in the future this or something like it will be. 02:02.990 --> 02:05.670 So this is just the scare tactics to keep you engaged. 02:05.670 --> 02:06.470 Next slide. 02:06.970 --> 02:15.370 Alright, so, yes, this is the obligatory legal language that we have to provide that was developed by trained ninja JD monkeys. 02:15.550 --> 02:24.450 Here, this is just to reflect that this is not necessarily the opinions or the language, verbage, opinions, commentary associated with our employers. 02:25.290 --> 02:34.970 His, whether it be the medicine field, yeah, he's still technically in the Air Force and he's in the medicine field, he's not going to provide any medical advice here, anyhow. 02:34.970 --> 02:38.070 Oh, and patent pending, the work we've done here. 02:38.070 --> 02:39.730 Alright, so this is objective. 02:45.210 --> 02:47.490 We did ask for a second microphone. 02:48.270 --> 02:50.110 Do we have enough cable to do this or what? 02:50.110 --> 02:50.650 Okay. 02:50.790 --> 02:53.550 Alright, so long term we want to improve access to physician care. 02:53.550 --> 02:55.490 I mean, that's, that's the big takeaway here. 02:55.570 --> 02:59.070 And finally, we think that going forward medicine is going to have to become more collaborative. 02:59.210 --> 03:02.190 Raise your hand if you've been on WebMD. 03:03.030 --> 03:04.290 I know, I know you all have. 03:04.290 --> 03:06.230 You've all had some weird sore, yeah. 03:06.230 --> 03:07.430 I know you all have. 03:07.430 --> 03:08.510 Something a little itchy? 03:08.510 --> 03:10.350 You're, you're gross. 03:11.490 --> 03:13.170 Um, yeah. 03:13.830 --> 03:20.710 So, we think that it'll be helpful to be able to speak over a secure anonymous platform and say, hey man, I got this thing going on. 03:20.710 --> 03:30.110 Kind of like what you have on WebMD right now, except with someone that you know is a physician because they've been credentialed through the blockchain, through a token, uh, to, to know that. 03:30.250 --> 03:31.230 Uh, next slide . 03:31.910 --> 03:35.450 Longer term, and this is what I alluded to earlier, um, right now we have a functional POC. 03:35.450 --> 03:36.790 We're going to show you that today. 03:36.890 --> 03:39.890 Um, it's sped up though, so don't think we're cheating. 03:39.890 --> 03:42.050 It takes longer than a minute to do this. 03:42.070 --> 03:45.930 It takes like 6 minutes to do this, which is still pretty good, we thought. 03:46.390 --> 03:51.510 Um, so these are the, the key tenets I want you to keep in mind as we go through this. 03:52.330 --> 03:54.550 Uh, the one I didn't mention was auditability. 03:54.550 --> 04:02.910 So, for anything medical records, you have to be able to know who looked at what, what they saw, you know, if they had a reason for doing this. 04:03.370 --> 04:19.450 Um, a blockchain will keep track of the externals, so you'll know that physician X talked to patient Y, maybe some sort of content, I guess with the contract on Ethereum you'll know that it was something about, uh, I think I maybe broke this bone or something. 04:19.450 --> 04:27.290 Um, but you won't have the internals, so there's still privacy, uh, we, we hope, we think at play, although we're, we are looking to you guys to help pick this apart. 04:27.290 --> 04:28.610 Uh, next slide. 04:29.270 --> 04:30.390 So why Ethereum? 04:30.490 --> 04:35.030 Um, you know, it's kind of a, a, you know, a poor man's crypto. 04:35.030 --> 04:37.090 We can do a lot of stuff with this, with the blockchain. 04:37.090 --> 04:43.950 It'll cost a little bit of money, but even more importantly, what we're up against is, is frankly way too expensive to begin with. 04:43.950 --> 04:47.050 I mean, a PAC system is millions a year and it's proprietary. 04:47.130 --> 04:53.430 Oh, and there's a talk on Sunday, I don't know who's giving it, but, uh, I think they're going to discuss the security , any chance he or she's in here? 04:54.310 --> 04:54.690 No? 04:54.690 --> 04:59.910 Okay, well they're going to hopefully talk about all the, the vulnerabilities in PAC systems that already exist. 05:00.550 --> 05:06.230 Um, additionally, healthcare, the, the costs have become just non-transparent. 05:06.230 --> 05:12.490 I mean, we, we think we're over a hundred dollars to read a, an x-ray, an MRI is probably more, probably a couple hundred dollars. 05:12.770 --> 05:17.650 Um, but frankly that's, that's already too expensive and, uh, we think we can do better. 05:17.650 --> 05:18.770 We know we can do better. 05:19.130 --> 05:23.030 Uh, the, the payment system is already built in, as long as your physician is willing to accept Ethereum. 05:23.030 --> 05:24.790 Who here, who in here takes Ethereum? 05:24.870 --> 05:26.850 I think I took a nose dive the last few weeks. 05:27.170 --> 05:28.310 Who lost thousands? 05:28.890 --> 05:30.390 Yeah, yeah, sorry buddy. 05:31.730 --> 05:39.790 Um, and then, uh, identity management, this is where we really think this could catch on, um, because how do you know who you're talking to? 05:39.790 --> 05:41.170 How do you know this is a physician ? 05:41.210 --> 05:52.590 Um, especially if you can de-identify it enough to know that, well, I don't know the physician's name, but I know that he's credentialed to this level, even if he or she is living in India or even if he or she is living, uh, you know, in Chile or something, 05:52.590 --> 05:56.990 uh, which can also help for 24-7 access to these kinds of, uh, medical services. 05:57.150 --> 05:58.390 And finally, reputation management. 05:58.390 --> 06:06.550 We're not here yet, but we envision something along the lines of an Uber-type rating system, which is difficult because you might not like what you hear from the physician. 06:06.550 --> 06:08.410 Yes, you do have herpes, I'm sorry. 06:08.630 --> 06:22.290 Um, but, uh, you know, we're, we're hoping that someday we can put together something that allows us to know that this physician who is credentialed and operating on this, this particular system is not full of shit. 06:22.750 --> 06:24.790 Um, that's kind of where we, what we want to get to. 06:26.810 --> 06:39.790 So, when you're getting feedback from a physician on an image that you're providing to them, you want to make sure you're getting timely feedback, you're getting cost effective feedback, and that it's detailed enough that you can take it and provide it to maybe your primary care provider, 06:39.790 --> 06:45.770 or you get enough input on it to say, yes, this is a broken, or, yeah, that probably is what you think it is, that's sore. 06:46.610 --> 06:47.170 Slide. 06:47.170 --> 06:47.690 Slide. 06:49.670 --> 06:50.210 All right. 06:50.210 --> 06:51.030 So, this is me. 06:51.290 --> 06:55.490 So, this is the, the architecture, what we designed, um, to get this done. 06:55.490 --> 06:59.370 And on the left-hand side, you've got the patient, and on the right-hand side, you've got a physician. 06:59.370 --> 07:07.690 And originally, when we were talking about this and designing it in our heads, trigraph was the concept of the patient, the blockchain, and the doctor. 07:07.830 --> 07:12.490 And then we got to the point where we said, hey, you know what, we probably don't want to store imagery on the blockchain. 07:12.490 --> 07:14.270 That would be annoying for everybody. 07:14.590 --> 07:15.910 So, we didn't. 07:15.910 --> 07:19.970 We ended up using an external data store. 07:19.970 --> 07:22.190 And the external data store is depicted on the top. 07:22.190 --> 07:25.250 We've implemented that in the proof of concept using Django. 07:25.950 --> 07:30.510 And that's just basically an API that's sending information back and forth. 07:30.510 --> 07:42.570 In the design phase, when we were looking at this, it was very important to us that we implement it such that if the data store were compromised, none of the patient information, specifically imagery, would be recoverable. 07:42.570 --> 07:47.330 So, what is passed up there is public keys and encrypted image data, and that's it. 07:47.570 --> 07:52.490 As far as the patient interaction with the blockchain, that's something where they're sending the payment. 07:52.490 --> 07:54.830 They're paying the physician for that imagery. 07:54.830 --> 07:56.850 They're paying the physician for that opinion. 07:56.870 --> 07:59.910 They're starting the contract, and they're pushing state changes. 07:59.910 --> 08:03.410 The physician is also pushing state changes, which we'll get to here in a moment. 08:03.410 --> 08:09.130 And then the payment at the end goes to that happy physician in the lower right to say, yeah, that doesn't look good. 08:10.290 --> 08:16.950 All right, so when we designed the proof of concept, this is what we actually implemented in our network for testing. 08:17.050 --> 08:26.850 You can see basically it's a summary of it all, and this is truly a mesh network with the geth or the Go-based Ethereum clients talking to each other. 08:26.850 --> 08:31.870 But here what you've got is you've got at the top the dedicated blockchain nodes that are operating the blockchain. 08:31.870 --> 08:37.270 They're the ones that are doing the mining, and the mining is required so that we can keep the transactions moving along. 08:37.270 --> 08:45.950 On the lower hand side, this was our implementation in the proof of concept to say we have an arbitrary patient client, we have an arbitrary doctor client, and we have the data store. 08:45.950 --> 08:49.670 And the data store was the implementation of that Django app that we were talking about. 08:49.670 --> 09:04.530 All of those three are interfacing through Web 3, a Python library, into the Go Ethereum client via RPC to the Go Ethereum client and talks on the blockchain. 09:04.530 --> 09:07.250 So this is how we implemented our proof of concept. 09:07.250 --> 09:10.150 And we'll go over that and actually have some video on that later. 09:10.410 --> 09:11.370 Any questions? 09:12.330 --> 09:12.910 Okay. 09:12.910 --> 09:13.870 I'm going to speed through this. 09:13.870 --> 09:14.150 All right. 09:14.150 --> 09:17.350 So one of the things that was important to us was authentication. 09:17.350 --> 09:19.110 How do we know who's talking, right? 09:19.110 --> 09:21.030 How do we know who's conversing? 09:21.030 --> 09:26.850 So for authentication on the blockchain, we're relying on the Ethereum authentication, right? 09:26.850 --> 09:28.170 You're unlocking your wallet. 09:28.170 --> 09:35.250 You're using those secrets that are within that wallet, that private key, to send data, to send money, to send Ethereum. 09:35.250 --> 09:38.730 If you can unlock that, then you have authenticated yourself to the blockchain. 09:38.730 --> 09:42.650 And for our purposes, we said that's going to be good enough, right? 09:42.650 --> 09:45.710 Because you're already doing that to send money back and forth. 09:45.770 --> 09:48.890 But for the data store, we had to come up with something, right? 09:48.890 --> 09:51.770 How do we know who is talking to the data store? 09:51.770 --> 09:55.170 So what we came up with was this is our prescription pad, right? 09:55.170 --> 09:58.750 You have a prescription pad, you hand it to the physician and they sign it. 09:58.750 --> 10:00.310 That's what we're doing, right? 10:00.310 --> 10:08.350 So the data store, when it is working with any one of the clients to it, whether it be a patient or a physician, they're sending them challenges. 10:08.350 --> 10:15.570 It's a challenge response authentication mechanism that's essentially saying, hey, here's something that's unique, a unique token from the data store. 10:15.570 --> 10:18.890 We want you to sign it with your Ethereum private key. 10:19.330 --> 10:32.930 And when it gets back, the data store looks at it and tries to verify that signature and if it can, and that contract ‑‑ I'm sorry, that address verifies up against the contract that it's looking for to say, yes, this is the patient, yes, this is the physician, 10:32.930 --> 10:33.630 you're good to go. 10:33.630 --> 10:34.830 And it progresses forward. 10:34.850 --> 10:37.370 So that was used for authentication against the data store. 10:37.490 --> 10:39.870 The other thing that was important to us was authorization. 10:39.870 --> 10:42.230 And authorization was handled at two levels. 10:42.510 --> 10:48.370 Authorization in the contract on the blockchain was baked into the contract using solidity. 10:48.370 --> 10:54.030 So you can see here we've got some modifiers that say only the patient can do certain things, only the doctor can do certain things. 10:54.030 --> 10:56.270 And then we've got the in‑state aspects. 10:56.550 --> 10:59.190 And you've got some examples on the right‑hand side. 10:59.290 --> 11:13.230 In‑state just depicts the fact that we've got this kind of positioned out in different states where the contract is initiated by the patient and then it waits for it to be ready for the doctor and then the doctor picks it up and reviews it and then it gives it back to the patient and the patient gets it and says, 11:13.230 --> 11:15.650 yes, you reviewed my image, here's your money. 11:16.070 --> 11:18.670 So that's basically how we're doing that authorization. 11:18.670 --> 11:24.250 As far as authorization within the data store, that was based on your authentication. 11:24.350 --> 11:27.170 So it's, again, based on patient or physician. 11:27.170 --> 11:37.370 If you have identified yourself using the authentication mechanism we referenced in the last slide as the patient and you're trying to do something a patient should be able to do with that contract, you're authorized to do it. 11:38.630 --> 11:39.330 All right. 11:39.330 --> 11:43.550 So how did we keep those images secure on the data store? 11:43.550 --> 11:46.130 This is basically a summary of what we did. 11:46.130 --> 11:52.350 This is a specific implementation of elliptic curve integrated encryption scheme or ECIES. 11:52.710 --> 12:08.190 What we're doing is we're taking that Ethereum private key data on the left-hand side for the patient and the doctor and we're creating elliptic curve keys, basically saying let's create pubs from the private key data that you have and we're going to share the public keys via the data store. 12:08.190 --> 12:11.430 Again, that's authenticated back to say, are you the patient? 12:11.430 --> 12:13.350 Okay, then you get the doctor's public key. 12:13.350 --> 12:14.190 Are you the doctor? 12:14.190 --> 12:16.210 Okay, then you get the patient's public key. 12:16.210 --> 12:18.290 Specifically for that contract. 12:18.790 --> 12:25.530 The public keys are exchanged via the data store and then those are used for ECDH or elliptic curve Diffie-Hellman key exchange, right? 12:25.530 --> 12:32.490 So we're going to take that and we're going to generate a shared secret that now the patient and the doctor have. 12:32.490 --> 12:47.530 That shared secret is used as output from the ECDH or elliptic curve Diffie-Hellman blocks to throw into an AES key derivation function and the salt that we're using to make it unique for each exchange is the contract address from Ethereum. 12:48.050 --> 12:52.010 That then will result in equal AES keys on each side. 12:52.010 --> 12:58.390 So the doctor has an AES key, the patient has an AES key, they're the same but they never exchange it in the first place. 12:59.470 --> 13:02.430 So these are the stages that the contract will go through. 13:02.510 --> 13:15.430 The patient will initiate it, the patient will stage everything, put the data out there, say it's ready for the doctor, the doctor can then accept the contract and get everything ready to be able to, you know, exchange those public keys. 13:15.430 --> 13:32.750 Once the public keys are exchanged, then the patient can upload the file and in the encrypted format and then it can be downloaded by the doctor, reviewed, put back up there and then the patient can say, yes, this is completed, I got back the advice from the doctor. 13:32.750 --> 13:35.090 There's also a stage for abortion. 13:35.090 --> 13:48.490 If we get to a point where the patient has put a contract out there and it has not been accepted, for example, if I put something out there and I didn't mean to or I put it out there and the value is too high or I want to decrease it, you can just nix the contract altogether. 13:48.490 --> 13:52.750 But it has to be a non-accepted state and it has to be done by the patient. 13:52.910 --> 13:58.330 We've got some details in this for everything I just said that I'm just going to skip past because I said it already. 13:58.710 --> 13:59.270 All right. 13:59.350 --> 14:00.070 Challenges? 14:03.370 --> 14:06.590 Okay, so it's changing quickly. 14:07.030 --> 14:10.970 That could wreck all the code that Peter has already written. 14:10.970 --> 14:11.650 Sorry. 14:12.350 --> 14:14.610 There are privacy concerns. 14:14.930 --> 14:20.710 Just like any system, the end users can still take a picture of something and put it on the Internet. 14:20.870 --> 14:23.910 We don't know how to fix that, so we can't really solve that problem. 14:24.330 --> 14:29.810 Additionally, de-identifying some of this data may prove impossible. 14:30.190 --> 14:31.890 Moral and ethical as well. 14:31.890 --> 14:37.330 This is something that Peter and I discussed at length for about 10 minutes over a few beers. 14:39.690 --> 14:49.730 This same construct could be used to share some really bad stuff and it would be completely anonymous and it would be completely secure. 14:49.810 --> 14:52.610 So you could do murders for hire. 14:52.710 --> 14:55.630 I'll let you speculate on everything else you could do over that. 14:56.910 --> 14:58.410 Finally, how do I know you're a real doctor? 14:58.410 --> 15:05.730 If you lose your token once it's been issued or if it's stolen from you, well, we don't know that you're talking to a real doctor anymore. 15:07.190 --> 15:09.570 And then finally, two more things. 15:09.570 --> 15:12.750 So you do, we're not sure what's going to happen with this. 15:12.750 --> 15:15.390 The gas when we priced it a few days ago was just a few cents. 15:15.390 --> 15:19.410 The physician would pay a few cents to get into the network, which is no big deal. 15:19.650 --> 15:21.870 But we don't know what the future is going to hold with that. 15:21.870 --> 15:24.490 So if Vitalik Buterin is around, does anyone know if he's around? 15:24.870 --> 15:25.830 I'd like to talk to him. 15:25.830 --> 15:26.470 I'm totally serious. 15:26.470 --> 15:29.530 I'd love to sit down and, you know, is he 21 yet? 15:31.110 --> 15:32.890 And finally, speed kills. 15:32.890 --> 15:37.610 If the network isn't fast enough, your average radiologist is going to move through a scan in about two minutes. 15:38.330 --> 15:43.130 If they can't do that in that sort of time with this network, it's pointless. 15:43.130 --> 15:44.790 They'll just go back to a pack system. 15:45.410 --> 15:46.130 Slide. 15:46.750 --> 15:47.370 Next step. 15:47.370 --> 15:51.990 So what we want to do, um, we, we need to automate more of this. 15:51.990 --> 15:57.570 It needs to be, um, I'm not sure what you meant by checks and balances. 15:58.070 --> 16:03.570 So right now, so right now we don't have some of the checks that I'd like to do. 16:03.570 --> 16:11.390 I'd like to do some of those things to say, okay, um, you know, where is the state of the contract with respect to what you're doing at the data store? 16:11.390 --> 16:11.810 Right? 16:11.810 --> 16:20.590 So if you're trying to download an image and it isn't actually at that state on the, the data or on the blockchain, it'll all error out, but I'd like to tighten that up. 16:20.590 --> 16:20.910 Yeah. 16:22.270 --> 16:23.170 Thanks Pedro. 16:23.570 --> 16:25.650 Um, so we need to also credential physicians. 16:25.650 --> 16:26.550 How much time do we have? 16:26.550 --> 16:27.090 A minute or two? 16:27.090 --> 16:27.750 Okay, cool. 16:28.110 --> 16:29.870 Um, so this is the hard part. 16:29.870 --> 16:32.270 If anyone knows any companies that can do this for us, we'd love to know. 16:32.430 --> 16:34.730 Um, because once they're credentialed, I mean, that's it. 16:34.730 --> 16:36.890 We don't have any way to sort of police them. 16:36.890 --> 16:41.950 We need to know that they are who they say they are, that they have gone to this residency or have had this medical training. 16:42.290 --> 16:44.170 Uh, user friendly interface right now. 16:44.750 --> 16:48.650 Um, there's maybe three people in this room who would know how to do this, uh, in this system. 16:49.050 --> 16:54.710 Um, so we're going to need to make this interface with a browser of some sort or an app. 16:55.050 --> 16:57.310 Uh, if anyone can do that, let us know afterwards. 16:57.870 --> 16:59.030 Uh, monetization. 16:59.210 --> 17:01.370 Uh, we do, we would like to monetize it. 17:01.370 --> 17:09.390 I mean, I don't, I don't think we're looking to make crazy profits on this, but there's a few different ways we could do it, but we want to do it in a way that we're not a third party. 17:09.390 --> 17:18.910 It would have to be the sort of thing where the contract is already fulfilled and everyone's happy and then somehow in some sort of, you know, subcontract or something, we're paid afterwards. 17:18.910 --> 17:20.850 We're not exactly sure how we're going to do that yet. 17:21.050 --> 17:22.770 Um, the rating system, already discussed. 17:22.770 --> 17:23.390 Go live on Ethereum. 17:23.390 --> 17:24.530 We haven't done this yet. 17:24.530 --> 17:30.530 Uh, so we still technically don't know if this will work and end because it hasn't been done, uh, on the live network. 17:31.030 --> 17:33.890 Okay, uh, I hope we left time for questions. 17:34.070 --> 17:35.470 Let's get the demo going. 17:35.870 --> 17:36.190 Uh 17:49.750 --> 17:52.850 , and wow, this is really terrible, terrible graphics. 17:52.850 --> 17:54.730 I'm so, so sorry about this. 17:54.830 --> 17:56.130 Let's see if we can zoom in. 17:58.190 --> 17:59.950 How do you max zoom in? 18:01.170 --> 18:02.430 Max zoom in. 18:17.610 --> 18:18.190 Yeah. 18:18.190 --> 18:20.090 And we can make this available afterwards. 18:20.090 --> 18:21.010 This is just a video. 18:21.010 --> 18:22.370 It's unfortunately grainy. 18:22.510 --> 18:24.730 Um, what this is and was, we sped this up. 18:24.730 --> 18:27.990 This is a video of the interaction on the top of an end to end script. 18:27.990 --> 18:34.950 The problem with, uh, actually doing this, you know, in person is it's something where I would do something as a patient, doctor would do something. 18:34.950 --> 18:37.030 I would do something as a patient, doctor would do something. 18:37.030 --> 18:38.870 And that's actually going to take hours and hours. 18:38.870 --> 18:42.710 Plus the blockchain has to mine everything to verify all the transactions. 18:42.790 --> 18:55.890 So, so my question is, have you felt of running, uh, instead of using public blockchain, you can use a private blockchain, let's say based off on a proof of authority consensus or similar to oracles.org project that they're trying to do. 18:56.650 --> 18:59.190 Um, have you thought of this approach? 18:59.190 --> 19:03.230 Because it's a green mining, nobody has to, it's like a simplified proof of stake. 19:03.430 --> 19:04.190 Yeah. 19:07.070 --> 19:10.750 So what he said was right now we're using a private blockchain and it's working. 19:10.750 --> 19:16.030 Um, we do want to push it out to a public blockchain just to make it so that it's readily available. 19:16.030 --> 19:17.810 It's monetized right there. 19:17.810 --> 19:18.890 It's money, right? 19:18.890 --> 19:20.650 People pay, right. 19:20.650 --> 19:21.670 People pay in the money. 19:22.830 --> 19:23.250 Yeah. 19:23.250 --> 19:24.990 We can do very bad things with this blockchain. 19:24.990 --> 19:27.910 So we want to make sure that it's verified by other people. 19:27.910 --> 19:32.370 We want to make sure that it's money that people can get, that they, you know, radiologists can do this thing. 19:32.370 --> 19:35.630 They get their Ethereum and they get it out of Coinbase or whatever they need to do. 19:35.890 --> 19:36.650 All right. 19:38.790 --> 19:39.590 Last question. 19:39.590 --> 19:40.110 Okay. 19:40.110 --> 19:47.190 Um, so I see you guys aren't really storing, um, patient information, but you are storing encrypted image data. 19:47.190 --> 19:47.450 Yes. 19:47.450 --> 19:53.670 Maybe certain what patient information, um, would HIPAA apply here? 19:53.670 --> 19:59.110 Are you taking that into consideration that you'd be legally required to do certain things according to HIPAA? 19:59.110 --> 20:00.890 Yeah, why don't you take this one? 20:03.730 --> 20:04.530 No. 20:05.190 --> 20:05.850 Okay. 20:05.850 --> 20:06.130 Enjoy. 20:06.130 --> 20:12.450 No, because, because this is, this, in this case, in all the scenarios we, we are putting up here, it's the patient uploading this. 20:12.510 --> 20:14.470 With your medical records, you can do whatever you want. 20:14.950 --> 20:20.410 Um, now going forward, we would need to get some sort of HIPAA certification for this. 20:20.410 --> 20:28.570 I don't know that it would be a huge problem because once this stuff is encrypted, it, it's there in the data store and it's just there. 20:28.570 --> 20:33.690 HIPAA has very strict regulations of how you store it and how you audit the server and how you do everything. 20:33.690 --> 20:34.910 I violated it a few times. 20:34.910 --> 20:35.930 I'm familiar with it. 20:36.370 --> 20:38.330 Um, yeah, enjoy the fines. 20:38.670 --> 20:40.530 Um, yes, there are, there are heavy fines. 20:40.530 --> 20:44.510 Um, so no, we, we see this starting off as a poor man's second opinion to begin with. 20:44.590 --> 20:47.410 Um, that would be outside the bounds of HIPAA. 20:47.410 --> 20:50.090 But you're right, going forward, that, that would be a problem and a concern. 20:50.550 --> 20:55.830 And not one we're really that worried about because when you start talking about auditability, this is the public ledger, right? 20:55.830 --> 20:56.950 This is the blockchain. 20:56.950 --> 20:58.790 So now we kind of know where everything's transiting. 20:58.790 --> 20:59.530 It's your data store. 20:59.530 --> 21:03.470 So the data store also supports all kinds of logging that we can do with that. 21:03.470 --> 21:05.010 It's something that we could achieve. 21:05.010 --> 21:06.170 I'm not that concerned about it. 21:06.170 --> 21:14.630 But to get to the point where we were proof of concept and it was actually moving data back and forth in an encrypted fashion, we did not achieve HIPAA compliance today. 21:15.050 --> 21:17.730 All right, cool. 21:17.730 --> 21:18.350 Thanks guys. 21:18.350 --> 21:19.350 Oh! 21:19.410 --> 21:21.790 >>[applause from audience, no audio for the rest of the presentation.