All right, cool. We're going to start going now. So my name is Justin. I work for Delphi
Automotive, who is sponsoring the Car Hacking Village. I run the red team testing lab there.
So my team, who you'll see around here, is the ones that are going to be doing demos and
doing a lot of this stuff for us. But we hack our own modules to help our engineers secure
them better. So to get into this a little bit, starting off at the Car Hacking Village, we
do have a CTF there this year. It's really, really cool. They've got lots of different
interfaces, lots of different systems to hack into. The first place prize is this truck
over here. So if you guys want to play around, you can win a truck. Another prize that we're
going to be giving away is this antenna that we're going to be demoing for you guys. So you
can see right here, this is a GPS helical directional antenna. We'll go into the making of
that as well in a little bit. So to, yeah, going back to our day job. So we're a Delphi
cybersecurity testing team. We do pen testing for the company, process and tool development as
well as research and development. This is what our facility looks like. We've got a bunch of
garage bays we can pull cars into and a pretty big facility to do testing on modules. So
now moving into the outline, we're going to talk about different test interfaces on the
wireless side as well as tool kits for it. Just to help you guys out in case you may not have
tested or done this stuff before. So we'll just kind of give you the rundown of what we're
using and what works for us. Then we're going to do a demo on key fob analysis. So we're
going to use GNU radio and a hack RF to do some analysis on key fob to show you how to pull
those out of the air and do a deep dive into those. And then we're going to go into building
directional antenna, which is this guy over here in the front, Brian, who's the mastermind
behind that. And then we're going to get into the demo of actually directionally pointing GPS
over here and showing you how that antenna works. All right, so now this stuff I'll run
through quick because you guys probably know a lot of this. This is just a typical Wi-Fi
standards. So I just wanted to throw this in here so you had it all. Here's some tools that
you guys can use for Wi-Fi. We don't do too much Wi-Fi stuff in cars. I mean pretty much
most of them have WPA2. So unless you can bypass the password, which they're getting a
little bit better. The car companies are slowly getting better at making good passwords on
WPA2. But that's really the only weakness that we're seeing. So yeah, we'll go to the next
one, which is going to be Bluetooth. Bluetooth was a lot more vulnerable in the older
versions. So any older cars that have older versions of Bluetooth in it are extremely
vulnerable to those types of attacks. Here's some more specs on that. It's another RF
spectrum that sits in the 2.4 gigahertz range. The Bluetooth version 5 is really nice
because it's bumping up the speed like crazy. And mainly the, whoops, mainly the distance
which is nice. Just because all these different devices people are making in their houses,
you can go a lot more farther in your house. But then for us, if we want to do drive-bys, we
can also get into their stuff. So here's some tools that we use for Bluetooth testing. The
UberTooth one is really helpful. And then we just use this adapter. It's really easy. We
can transmit on this. We can do whatever we want with this device. Some Bluetooth devices
won't allow you to. So now moving into cellular, there's three different areas that we
focus on in cellular. This is just giving you a rundown of spectrums. So whenever we're
trying to dig into a new technology or understand it more, this is the type of data we
compile to start digging and understanding what tools we want to buy. And then we start
reaching out to vendors or coming to events like this and buying all the hacker tools. So
when you're getting into cellular related stuff or any wireless stuff on cars, it's
recommended to look for this type of content on any of the modules. Mainly something with
the FCC ID or even an IMEI number. It's going to let you know there's a cell network in
here and there's transmitting some kind of RF somewhere. So this is how we quickly can
move on to understanding what's coming out of this module. So now looking into the tools
that we use, we're, um, trying to find what works best for us. So we buy a lot of industry
based tools like this guy up here. This is from Roden Schwartz. It's a cell site
simulator. So this will actually put up a cell tower for you. You put a SIM card in your
phone or whatever you need to and now you can see all the data streams and everything
that's going back and forth from that phone. So it's really helpful for us when we're
trying to test apps in cars that people are building to understand if they're actually
communicating to the server securely and what type of data they're sending back and forth.
Um, and then for putting up base stations, um, on a cheaper way, you can use a blade RF
with the HBTS or this USRP device with the HBTS as well. Those are a little bit cheaper
routes to go and you get a lot more custom, uh, customizability with those. Um, next is
moving on to key fob, which we're going to show you the demo on. This is something that was
introduced in 1980 by Ford. Um, there's two main frequencies, which is 3.5 megahertz and
433.92 megahertz. Um, the distance is 5 to 20 meters and the security on this is mainly
rolling codes and challenge response. A couple years ago you guys may have seen a guy named
Sammy Kamkar create a device that was able to bypass or, you know, leverage rolling codes to
be able to get into people's cars. Um, there's also passive key entry systems, which are
running stuff in the, uh, kilohertz range. So when you walk up to your car and you want to
unlock it with just your button, uh, or the handle on the car, that's usually using
something in the kilohertz range. And that's called passive key entry. So here's some
tools that we use for, uh, the key fob stuff. We mainly are using the hacker refs, but the
spectrum analyzer is really helpful to see those packets coming across. Um, and then we
also use the yardstick one because that goes down to the lower kilohertz. So now moving on
to GPS, which we'll show you a demo on that as well. This is something that was created by the
United States in the 70s. Um, there's a few different bands. The ones that are mainly
public are L1 and L2. Uh, if you want to lock down GPS properly, use both radios in your
devices. Most people don't. I know Apple doesn't and we can show you what happens with that
because they don't. Um, we'll pretty much can put anybody's phone wherever we want if you're
only using one band because your phone's only relying on that band so it's not getting
another source to say, hey, you're not actually here, you should be here. Um, so we'll show
you what, how that can be messed with. Um, some different tools we're using for this. You
can use a hacker ref. Uh, they're kind of hard because you got to stack a bunch because you
have to do transmitting and receiving. Um, and then we mainly use a blader ref, um, which we
have set up here connected to this antenna. So we'll show you that in a moment. And then the
next one, the last one, which is a fun one, which you guys may not have heard of yet. This
is something that's coming in cars. It's kind of scary from my perspective because of what
they're trying to do with it. But it is something that's needed. Cars do need to talk. If
we're going to have autonomous cars down the road, they do have to talk to each other in some
manner. So this is currently the automotive solution for that. It's called vehicle to
everything. Um, it runs just above, uh, the 5 gigahertz range and it has a protocol of 80211P
which is very similar to all the WiFi standards. It's really not that much different. The
only difference is it's got this IEEE 1609 application layer on top of it. And then here's
some tools that we use for that. Um, if you're looking into development tools, these are
just the hacker type tools besides this one. But another development tool you can look to is
something called Coda Wireless or MK5. Um, that'll allow you to actually transmit and do
some V2X based stuff. And another one from the auto industry is pretty big. It's Vector
Canoe. They're really expensive so hopefully in the near future some hackers will release
some tools that are a lot cheaper for you guys. All right, now we can move into this, uh,
key fob analysis if you're ready, Dave. Hi everybody, my name is Dave Conant. I work for
Adelphi along with Justin and I'm sort of the radio guy, I guess, uh, over there. Is my
screen popping up here? No? How do I... Oh, there we go. That's interesting. Okay, so
well, if you can't see it, I'm gonna have a hard time demoing it. There we go. All right, so
who's used GNU radio before? Anybody in here? Has anybody, for the people who haven't used
it, have you heard GNU radio? Okay, so if you haven't used GNU radio or you've heard of it,
I'm gonna explain just the basics of what this thing does. It's a, it's a useful tool that we
use in the lab, uh, that we use to isolate different wireless signals. So Justin spoke
about GPS, you know, DSRC, but at the end of the day, in the radio frequency spectrum, you
know, vehicles themselves, they have like 15 different radios on them, your phone probably
has like 6 or 7, you know, you got Bluetooth, Wi-Fi, but then what about the non-standard
wireless? So I, you know, I've got my key fob here for my truck, for example. Now this thing
doesn't speak Wi-Fi, it doesn't speak GPS, so how do we deal with signals when we don't
really have, you know, like a Wi-Fi adapter to like just let us authenticate to it? Uh,
basically, uh, from the blue reverse engineering random wireless signals and looking at the
binary data, uh, inside of them. So I wanna show you 2 tools that we use in the lab, uh, to
isolate these signals and, and how we can decode the actual binary data, uh, off of that so we
can actually send and communicate with, uh, with these basic devices. It's actually
generally speaking easier to talk to these guys than something like using Wi-Fi. It's much
less complicated. So for example, with your key fob, it's just a series of bits and if the
car hears that, the right series of bits, there's no handshake, it just says, oh, I like
those bits, I'm gonna open up the, the car. It's that simple. So as long as you know that
code or how to generate that code, uh, then you can talk to it. So actually being able to
read the code off of the air if you don't know what the wireless signal looks like is a
very useful skill to have in general. Um, Defcon, we've seen talks that guys talk to
satellites using these techniques, you can talk to cars, uh, anything that transmits a
wireless signal that you can talk to. So I'm using a hack RF, I think the range on this
thing in frequency terms is, uh, it goes up to 6 gigahertz and down to 10 megahertz? 1
megahertz? 1 megahertz. That's a huge range. Uh, this is actually a monumental invention,
software defined radio in general. Uh, having this kind of power to be able to transmit and
receive on that wide a frequency range is something that 10 years ago even would have cost
millions of dollars in equipment and would have been military classified type technology. So
please get one and learn how to use them. They're very awesome. Alright, so I'm opening up
basically a utility called GQRX. GQRX, if you install GNU radio along with this, uh, you're
gonna be covered. So I'm gonna move this guy over here. GQRX, this, this guy right here is a
spectrum analyzer. Everybody knows what that is? It's our eyes and ears on the frequency, uh,
the frequency realm. This lets us see our wireless signals. This guy and most spectrum
analyzers cost between, mm, at least $10,000 up to $500,000 to a million dollars. Just to
give you an idea of what it's like just to see, uh, a spectrum range that we're talking about
here. HackRF costs I think $200 or $300 and it can see almost the same range as this guy. This,
this guy's still better, it's more accurate but the HackRF's good enough for us hackers. And
GQRX, I wanna show you, basically does the same thing that our $200,000 spectrum analyzer over
here does. And you can actually see they look very similar and I'm going to use GQRX to move
down and find my key fob signal to show you guys what that looks like. I happen to know that
it's 315 megahertz and everything, all your devices, they come with an FCC ID if they're
being sold commercially so they will tell you what the frequency is on the FCC's website. Super
useful website to look up all kinds of parameters that we're gonna use in GNU radio to decode
this signal. So you can see here when I press my little button for my HackRF there's a little
bumpity bump coming, it's a frequency shift key coming from my key fob. I do wanna show you as
well, so we're looking at, I think uh, what is this? 20 megahertz in bandwidth or 16 megahertz
I can't remember. I do wanna show you an important and difficult part in dealing with GNU radio
is setting up the filtering. And I wanna show you just what filtering looks like in GQRX. When
you click around you can see that little band there, it's actually filtering all the signals
out around it and if I had my audio on it would actually play the sound for the uh, the signal
that you're receiving. So you're narrowing in and zeroing in on that signal that you're
looking for despite capturing 20 megahertz worth of bandwidth. So, I uh, I think my computer
locked up. Yeah, okay. Well that's okay I was gonna close GQRX anyway and switch to GNU radio.
The important thing to understand is when we're gonna decode this signal in GNU radio and get
the binary bits out of there, um, there's basically 4 steps and essentially we have to capture
the signal from a source, that's obvious. And then we need to filter all the junk around it
out from the signal. And that, there's an entire series, you should watch Michael Osmond's uh,
SDR series if you haven't already. It's uh, HackR, it's, he's the guy who created the HackRF
and he's got an entire educational video series and he's got an entire one dedicated, an
entire hour dedicated to filtering. It's uh, it's a science and an art. There's a lot that
goes into it. Uh, there's many different kinds of filters, high pass, low pass, band pass,
exflating, fur filters, blah, blah, blah. Uh, learn them all, what they do, um, they're not
that tough but they're a little intimidating to get to at first. It's very important to zero
in on your signal uh, with those filters though. Okay, so once you've zeroed in on your
filter and uh, on your signal with your filter, the next step that you have to do is demodulate
it. Uh, demodulating is gonna come in a couple different flavors. There's frequency
demodulation and amplitude demodulation. So when you're playing around in GQRX, it will
behoove you to figure out and identify with your eye or your ear whether you're dealing with a
frequency shift key signal or an amplitude shift key signal. Amplitude sounds like Morse code
or it's changing in volume. A frequency shift key is gonna have differing tones that you'll
hear and it'll sound more like uh, like music or dubstep or something like that. So, and
once you identify that, you can pick your frequency shift keying or, or your amplitude shift
keying. So I've prepared new radio blocks here. Let's see if this works. Is it? No, it doesn't.
What's that? Oh, there we go. Now wait for it for a second. Okay, I have to be fast here. So my
program that I've written here, GNU radio, oh, whoa. It uses flowcharts to define your actual
software. In the background of each one of these flowcharts, there's actually a Python script
that gets executed. And you can see here, this is what I was talking about. I'm using the
Osmocom source which is my hack RF. I set the frequency to 315 megahertz because I know that
that's where my signal is and I set my sample rate to be about 4 megahertz. That means I'm
capturing 4 megahertz of bandwidth around the signal. That's a lot of bandwidth. The actual
bandwidth of this signal is like 200 kilohertz. It's not that wide. That's why I pass it into
a filter. I'm not gonna explain all of these different uh, parameters but basically I'm
zeroing in on the signal with this so uh, it's kind of offset from 315 megahertz. It's not
quite exactly. It's like 314.9. You can figure that out from the FCC website. So I'm offsetting
it to zero in on the signal and then I am shrinking down that 4 megahertz of bandwidth just
to capture this signal alone and none of the junk that's uh, flying around it especially here
at DEF CON. I'm then piping the signal into a frequency sync which is exactly the same thing
as the spectrum analyzer that we see here. So we can actually see the signal that we're
capturing and confirm that uh, that we're getting it. Demodulating the signal. And now this
is the, the secret sauce to get the binary data out of it. So at this point, this is nice, you'll
actually be zeroed in on a signal. You can hear it, you can record it, you can save it and you
can import it into other analysis tools like Baudline and Spectrum or even Audacity, your
favorite music editing program is able to read uh, this data coming out of here. So you can
just put that into a file sync right there. But if you just wanna pull the bits out, you put
it into a clock recovery block. The only thing you need to know to use this block is your
baud rate of the signal. And you can look at that visually or you can look it up on the FCC.
My key is I think 115 uh, 115,000 symbols per second. And once I know that, then I put it into
a binary slicer that slices it into bits and I save it to a file on the temp FS. I'm gonna show
you what that looks like when it runs right now. And I know there's a lot of information, I
have a ton of resources for you folks that you can like walk through chapter by chapter.
There's a lot of authors out there that have done this exact same thing and uh, they explain
everything in far more detail than I can here today. Alright, so I'm gonna run the program,
hopefully it'll work. I'm gonna click okay, that's fine. Alright, there's my signal. And now I'm
just gonna exit cause I've captured what I need. So I save that to temp test. I'm gonna go
ahead and just dump that with a hexadecimal viewer. And bingo, so you can see the pattern
there in the bits. Zero one, zero one, zero one is basically all ones. It's a bunch of, it's a
preamble for the signal saying hey, you're about to receive some interesting data. And right
after that you can see that there's uh, there's the code right here. Now something I didn't
show you in my block that if you actually wanna use this in the field, is there's something
called uh, there's a way that you can set an access code. So hey, look for the ones in a row
and only capture the bits that come after that. It's useful so you don't get this uh, file
that I showed you that has all of the uh, the repeating signal here. It'll just grab the, the
signal that you're interested in but just for the purposes of this demo I wanted to show you
the preamble and the code, the preamble and the code, the preamble and the code. And that is
literally the key fob signal for my truck. So if somebody wanted to take a picture of those
ones and zeros and can find my truck in the parking lot, you could re-digitize the signal
over the air and break into my truck. And that would be that. Anybody else wanna try pressing
their unlock key and let me record it and uh, tell me where to make and model and where it's
parked? No? It's really cool stuff. That's all I have for you today for my demo but that's how
you decode a binary signal arbitrarily broadcasted over the air. You reverse the entire
process to broadcast it out and uh, please learn how to use GNU Radio GQRX and buy yourself a
hack RF uh, to get into this stuff. And uh, thank you very much. I'll pass it back to Justin.
Thanks Dave. Uh, we gotta flip laptops. I gotta, I gotta flip the laptop again. Open, yeah,
pull the HDMI. Sorry, one second while we uh, switch the demo stuff up. Alright, now we're
gonna get into uh, the making of the antenna over there. Whenever the screen wants to load.
Yeah, one moment. Um, HDMI. Sorry guys. Alright, here we go. Nope, no source found. Sorry,
I, it's, I have it set up to duplicate. It looks like it's not really going in. It looks like it
is. Sorry guys. Yeah. Um, no, it's HDMI. Actually, sure, we can try it. Oh, alright, never mind.
We'll try this. If not, then I'll try this little dongle. There we go. Sweetness. Sorry about the
delay guys. Alright, so now we're gonna get into uh, building a helical antenna. So this is
gonna be presented by Brian Gillespie. This guy's a badass physics guy. He knows a lot of
stuff in physics and now he's becoming a hacker. So, here you go, here's Brian. Alright, thank
you Justin. Um, are you gonna index the slides since you uh, since you took? Okay, so um, I'm
gonna just review some of the fundamentals of the, of radio physics ways as most of you probably
know, but we need to understand that with more building things like this and uh, doing things
that Dave's doing and other people. So, so the quick review. So here's our whole uh, RF
spectrum of uh, that we have. You know, increasing uh, wavelength uh, we get, have the lower
frequency and then we have uh, higher frequency, smaller, smaller wavelengths. And if you see
where I've got that arrow pointed, radio frequencies are typically frequencies above 1
gigahertz or 10 to the 9 hertz. Um, and they travel at the speed of light and so we go to the
next slide here. Uh, so they travel in a straight line and they reflect. So when you're above
that uh, frequency range, they'll bounce off uh, things like the walls. When you have the lower
frequencies, you can have um, environmental effects on them. But for what we're doing, you know,
the travel's at the speed of light and it's important to remember our wave equation here where
we have uh, you know, the frequency, the frequency times the wavelength gives us the speed. So
that's gonna be helpful when I build the antenna. And forward. So, helical antenna. This is,
this is the main part of the talk here. So, uh, oh, backwards. So, you got your center, your
center support here, which is uh, which is this uh, B here. And you can see that in the antenna
over there. Uh, the coaxial feed line and then you have the insulating supports because we don't
want any uh, connectivity anywhere else. You got the reflector ground plane and then um, you
got your um, coaxial that feeds your signal in. Or if you want to receive, then it goes the other
way. So there's two modes that these helical antennas can operate in. And that's the normal
mode, uh, where the helix pitch and diameter are small compared to the wavelength and are
omnidirectional. And then the axial mode type, N-FIRE, which is what that antenna over here is,
is um, the diameter and the pitch are comparable to the wavelength. And you'll see that when I'm
gonna show up here next, or coming up. So this is just kind of a visual of what it looks like from
some simulations between an omnidirectional type antenna, which just kind of radiates out and
spreads out, where the N-FIRE directional, which is the helical, which means we can point it at
things, is this one here. Here's a little more animation here for us, just to show uh, what
happens when we have a helical antenna. And that is, depending on which way the helix is oriented,
we, uh, the waves will spin one way, or the vectors here will show the polarization. We'll be right-handed or
left-handed, and so that's based on how this, which way that's turned. Now I don't know, uh, you took the
animation out, it looks like. That's okay. But you can see down here, as it comes out, these waves are
spinning around. That's the representation up here, and that's the N-FIRE for that. Okay. So this gets to
the heart of the manner here of how to make the antenna. So I found this nice website up here that did
most of the calculations for us. So plug in the frequency, how many turns you want, and then it pops out
all this information that we need to build the antenna. So this is the general schematics that I, we had to
take and interpret to, uh, you know, build that antenna that's sitting over there, so that we can use it for
our work and, um, looking at what happens when we, uh, GPS is pointed at something that has it, and what
impact it's gonna have for us. All right. Whoops. Okay. So real quick, take some tools to build that, and
some design work from, from the previous slide to make all these parts here. So this is a bridge report
mill that I was using. I was in the process of putting in the holes. All these holes are spaced, based on
fractions of the, of wavelength on that, from that slide I, uh, showed you before. So that tells me what the
spacing needs to be here. And then, um, from there, you need to use the lathe to make some of the other
round parts, basically items you need. And one thing that I'm, remember that an antenna is just a wire. So
all that is, is just a wire configured a certain way to get the frequency we need, uh, for this application,
and some plastic, some aluminum, and other tools. All right. So there's the, oops, backwards. There's the
antenna. And I think we're ready for the demo. So this is some things we're doing in the lab here. So you can
see we're getting the signal. We've got a blade RF. Nick over there has got us all set up. Some of you, he's
been broadcasting that for the whole time. So depending on your device, it could show you that it might be a
thousand feet above Moscow. So if he points it over here, let me get out of the way, you should see the
signal get, get stronger as he points it over here. That's the purpose of it. Now if you put your hand in
front of it, now see it's bouncing off the wall. Put your hand in front of it when you turn it over there,
because I checked it earlier. See, it's now, it's now, because it's reflecting off the wall, like I was
mentioning, because it's behaving like light. So just bounce off the wall. So, and that's, uh, that's
everything.
We're like, this thing's not working. We're like, this thing's not working. But then we're like, oh, yeah,
reflection, light. It's just light. So that's why if you do, I don't know if this is going to go the whole
way, but if you do that and put your hand in front of it, it's going to put it away because now it
can't reflect off the walls anymore. But if you do this, now it's starting to reflect off the
wall, the walls in the room and the ceiling just like light does. Um, another thing too, we don't
have the amp plugged in on this, so we're not giving it enough power. We could pump this thing
or, here, I'll let Nick talk about that.
Yeah, go ahead.
With proper amplification, you can cover this entire casino in whatever signal you want. This
will render all navigation GPS completely useless. You'll be wherever I tell you you are.
Yeah, so pretty scary stuff, especially with autonomous cars coming down the road. Um,
obviously we care about safety a lot, which is why we designed stuff like this. So we're not just
putting everybody in the whole entire place in Moscow. Um, we're just putting everything that's
directional over there. Um, it's a safer way of doing tests like this. Um, you know, you don't
really want to get FCC calls. Um, so doing stuff like this and having the proper facility to do
this stuff in is, is also really helpful. The lab we do all this testing in is pretty much a
Faraday cage. We don't have cell inside the building. We can't get anything in or out. So we
know the tests that we're doing inside are not affecting systems externally from our lab. So
yeah, that's about it. Um, if you guys want to get into cars, we'll be here the whole entire
time during DEF CON. We do, we're a part of the CTF, so we have some stuff over there you guys
can hack into, try to find some flags and maybe win that Jeep or that truck or, uh, this
antenna. So yeah, thank you guys for coming out and, uh, enjoy the CON. We've got a
question for you. We're doing questions now. I realize we do have some extra time. Uh, he
said... so if you're using both L1 and L2, that would stop an attack like this, uh, from a
SCID if they were doing one radio. You can sync two radios, broadcast L1 and L2 for the
correct position, but it requires manual math or a very well written program. Um, what you
would see with both receivers is you would see that L2 is getting where you would expect,
where L1 is not. And L2, if they broadcast, there's no open source GitHub project for that
yet, um, but I'm gonna post it. Um, you would be able to tell also by the difference in
timing. So we need less than five parts per million accuracy to be, or precision, to be able
to get this to be received by your phones or any other consumer grade device. It is very
unlikely for someone to be able to do the wiring correctly to get that kind of accuracy to be
consistent through two radios at the exact same time. So that's a good stop for this type of,
uh, attack. Great question. Any other questions? Yeah, we'll go with you in the red first.
So with this attack, the question was, uh, could we impact timing? The answer is yes. Uh,
whatever time I broadcast, um, it, it, you kind of need to know more about the, the packet
that gets broadcast from the satellite. But basically it's, it's, it's latitude, longitude, and
it's time of broadcast. And then your radio takes in all those signals it picks up and says,
ah, I see the time of flight was so and so, therefore I'm here. So if I were to broadcast
consistently a different time, yes, you would receive it and trust it. It's a very, uh, weird
phenomenon, but people do it. They use their GPS as timers. Uh, with your RSA certificates, uh,
time is usually a factor in that. And you can completely set the seed value for a lot of
these embedded controllers because they'll generate the same certificate given the same
time. So if you know what it was once, you can just tell it it's the same time over and over
again. And all of a sudden you're able to get the same certificate all the time. Which means
now you can man the middle, even if they rotate their certs. Funky little CS problems become
very big security holes. Any other questions? Cool. So that's a good question. Um, we don't
directly focus on the full vehicle yet. Uh, we're mainly focused on modules. So if you guys
don't know what Delphi does, they create a lot of the safety, uh, systems in your cars as
well as infotainment systems in your vehicles. Um, so right now our focus is strictly on
protecting our parts. Um, down the road we do want to have, uh, offerings to like our
customers, OEMs, where we could do full vehicle assessments for them. But right now it's
strictly on the, um, module side. I did a talk, um, a few months ago at SANS that kind of laid
out a lot of this stuff. I can get you that link and there's a presentation in there that'll
show you more details of what we did for that. Yep. Uh, we do, yes. And we also focus, uh,
sorry, the question was, um, are we only focusing on like our ECUs or the interfaces that
are coming in from other stuff? Uh, and the answer is absolutely the stuff that's coming
from other systems. And that's why even the wireless stuff, you know, when stuff's coming
over wireless, we're testing that. We don't only look inside our systems, we look on the
interfaces and anything that's connecting to the systems. Um, a lot of that's hard to test
when you only have the module because you don't know how everything's going to be talking to
it. So that's why we're trying to build our systems up to eventually do full vehicle
assessments. So, good question. Yeah, yeah. Oh, cool. We'll talk later. Any other questions?
Alright, if you guys have any, just ask or if not, just stop by our booth. Uh, thanks again.