Welcome another long-time member of the SE Village family, Billy Boatwright.
He began his social engineer career even without knowing it.
He was a bartender on the Las Vegas Strip for a better part of a decade.
He won numerous awards from all over the world as top-ranked flair bartender.
And he's taking his skills he learned behind the bar to the information security world.
Let's give him our attention, Billy Boatwright.
All right, thank you, everybody.
This is the least important slide.
I want to get to this one.
Thank you.
If any of you are wondering why a medical doctor gets Brad Pitt billing in my talk,
find somebody that knows me.
They'll tell you a story you'll never believe.
And then all those other people are very important to me as well.
Okay, on with the show.
My name's Billy.
It's my Twitter.
I work for the Insider Security Agency.
They've given me a chance and taken me off my leash.
And I love it.
Okay, the title of the talk came from part of this poem, If by Rudyard Kipling.
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
or walk with kings or lose the common touch.
Now, I take that to mean that you need to be able to talk to everybody.
And,
as a bartender,
when I found this part of this poem,
it didn't matter who you were.
If you came to my bar,
you were a guest.
Didn't matter how much money you had,
how much you were going to tip me,
I treated you as a guest.
And as a social engineer,
we treat our clients the same sort of way.
You deal with everybody from the janitor up to the C-level.
And you need to be able to,
build rapport with all of them.
And so that's what this talk's going to be about.
About how to build rapport with everybody you meet.
Because there are some topics that are universal.
That you can talk to everybody about.
And I'm going to give you a couple of them tonight that you'll be able to take,
after my talk, and use immediately.
Go out into the hallway, maybe not here, but, but back home.
Easy peasy.
Okay.
There I am.
2001.
Here at Caesars Palace.
Silver chain.
Duck face.
I'm about two months from bleach tips.
Yeah.
Being 22 was awesome.
So,
like I said, I got my start as a flyer bartender.
Here, here at Caesars Palace.
And I worked here, worked on this trip for about a decade.
Traveling the world to flyer bartending competitions.
I have trophies at home.
It was amazing.
But for the first two years of my bartending career,
building rapport was all about getting paid,
and getting, nevermind there's kids here.
I'll let you fill in the blank.
But then in 2003, I got hired.
at a bar across the street at Harrah's called Carnival Court and we took building rapport
behind the bar to just an insane level. One of the things we would do is if you came to
the bar and bought a drink, we would shake your hand at the end of the transaction. Didn't
matter if you paid with a bucket of quarters or a black card, you got a handshake. Didn't
matter if you tipped us or not. But as tricky bartenders, we influenced bigger tips because
soliciting tips is a big no-no. One of the ways we used to do it, hey look, it's me,
it's a $20 billy. If somebody tipped us more than $5, we'd put it on our forehead, blow
our whistles, give them high fives. To the point where people would see us do that.
And just hand us bigger denominations. Just for the extra, hey, I want to be part of that
group. Here's two of my friends, Jamie and Flippy, sporting $100 bills. In fact, a cool
story about Flippy, the bald guy. There was a bar nightclub convention in town. One night
he had over $800 on his head because he's got his head shaved.
We went to nine different countries. It was amazing. And so one of the things we figured
out is being in Las Vegas, a tourist destination, we figured out everybody's from somewhere.
You know, we don't always, not everybody claims where they were born as they're somewhere.
I do, but I have friends that don't. You know, they left where they were born when they were
five or six.
We moved somewhere, went to high school, college, and so it always changes.
Now I need two volunteers. I have stickers.
You. Somebody else. No, you guys know me. Okay.
Come on up.
Excuse me, Hacker. Do I trust you. Right here. Right here. Do I trust you? Yes. Okay, I'm going to give you guys a clue.
And I want one of you to guess where I'm from. And I want the other to tell me something else about it, about myself, from the clue.
That's the name of my first pet. I don't use it as a security answer because it's too damn long to type.
But in first grade, that probably dates me. That was the name of my first pet.
Who wants to guess where I'm from?
Jordan.
Jordan? No, where am I from? Based on that.
Oh, California.
Bingo.
You like basketball.
Bingo.
Yes, I am from LA.
Go ahead.
Thanks, sir.
Thank you.
Anybody else from LA here?
Wow, not bad. Okay.
So I grew up there until I was 19. I've lived in Vegas now for 16 years.
But I claim LA, even though I've been here almost as long and the majority of my adult life.
But the other thing that we talked about that was guessed was I like basketball.
I like sports.
And that's another thing that we're going to talk about in this talk that when I hear people, especially at DEF CON, say the term sports ball, it's like nails on a chalkboard to me.
Okay.
But don't worry.
This talk isn't actually about sports.
We're not going to be talking about the Tampa 2 defense or sabermetrics in baseball or the triangle offense in basketball.
We're going to be talking about how to use sports as a tool to build rapport with everybody.
Do you guys believe me?
Yes.
Okay.
So now we have an exercise for everybody.
Everybody, please stand up.
Okay.
Back in February, one of the greatest championship games was played.
So if you can answer yes to any of the following questions, please sit down.
Did you watch Super Bowl 51?
Yeah.
Are you from the New England or Atlanta area?
Oh, that wasn't a good one.
Can you name at least three Lady Gaga songs?
Oh, yeah.
Have you ever had the type of food served at a Super Bowl party?
Chips, nachos, chicken wings, beer?
No.
Okay.
Oh, yeah.
Are you from the Houston area?
Okay.
I'm going to try and get you the last six or seven.
Have you ever seen a commercial?
Okay.
Around that one big event, there's the game.
There's the teams that are involved in the game.
There's the halftime show.
There's the parties.
There's where the game was played.
And then there's the commercials.
You guys are all qualified to build rapport with other people around that game.
Did you realize that?
Even though you didn't actually watch the game, but you could participate in any conversation about it.
Okay.
Okay.
Now, this is going to be some boring big numbers, but it might make you think about just how popular sports really are.
Super Bowl 51, more than 111 people watched it.
Nearly as many people that voted in the last election.
Okay.
Now, this one's a little bit of cherry picking.
Because this year's finals just weren't as compelling.
But if you notice how games five, six, and seven, as the series got more compelling, it drew more and more casual eyeballs.
Same thing with last year's World Series.
Five, six, and seven, as it got closer to the end of the series, more and more people tuned in to watch.
And it's crazy.
More than 40 million people tuned in to watch the Chicago Cubs win a championship for the first time in 108 years.
Cubs.
I wasn't happy about that because they beat my Dodgers in the NFCS.
But my wife loved it.
Okay.
Today.
Yes, I really mean today.
More than 450,000 people.
Are attending a Major League Baseball game.
Tomorrow.
More than three times as many people are here at DEFCON.
Are going to watch cars turn left.
At the Pocono 400.
And the Big Daddy.
In six weeks, the NFL is back.
And more than 1.1 million people will attend games on opening weekend.
Here's a couple of college football ones.
Do we have any Wolverines or Buckeyes?
So Michigan Stadium might be the largest.
I'm not quite sure.
But nearly 110,000 people are going to sit outside at the end of November in Michigan to watch them play football.
Okay.
And then last year, the NCAA wanted to see just how many people they could draw.
So they had a game at Bristol Motor Speedway.
Between Virginia Tech and Tennessee.
And nearly 157,000 people showed up.
To set the new record.
So another way people consume sports is through fantasy sports.
According to the Fantasy Sports Trade Association.
More than 57 million people.
Participated in fantasy sports last year.
I was one of them.
Anybody else?
There we go.
One thing that they didn't count in those numbers.
Were the number of people that fill out NCAA brackets.
During March.
Even though I play on my phone.
I always carry one in my pocket.
Just in case.
Okay.
So now what?
So how as social engineers can we use this information to our advantage?
Well, sports requires opposition.
Okay.
You need people to hate your team.
Or else being a fan is boring.
If we were all Dodgers fans, we'd all be best friends.
But we really have not much to talk about.
But sports is one of the few topics.
When it comes to building rapport.
We can actually take the opposite side.
And still be safe.
Because there are some topics.
You should avoid at all cost.
Anybody want to give me a few?
Politics.
Religion.
Talk crew.
Talk crew.
.
. . . . . . . .
Okay.
Let's see what the survey says.
Religion.
Politics.
Sex.
And money.
Okay.
The first two.
Pretty obvious.
Because they sort of require recruitment to your side of thinking.
And the last two.
If you haven't.
Nobody else really wants to hear about it.
Okay.
I've always called this bartending 101.
If you try to build rapport using these, it's going to be a bad day for you.
Okay.
So the power of opposites and building rapport using sports is it gives you a buffer.
So I believe Dodger Blue.
If you come up to me and say you're a Dodger fan, I'm probably going to find out real quick that you're lying to me.
If you're not.
But if you say you're a Giants fan.
.
. . . . . . . . .
We're going to have that.
We're still going to have decades of shared experiences.
But there's a buffer.
You know?
And it allowed you to be a little bit of a troll.
.
I don't recommend trolling in a stadium parking lot.
.
That's a good way to end up in a coma.
So now I'm going to give you some examples of how I've used opposites with sports for
building rapport.
Anybody from Alabama?
No?
Okay, I can talk all the trash I want then.
You have to talk slower to get them to understand you.
Okay.
Alabama, it's either Roll Tide or War Eagle.
Okay?
It's either the University of Alabama or the University of Auburn.
Auburn University.
It's really not.
I'm not a fan of SEC, so.
So I know a guy, Gillis Jones, he does security, super cool guy.
Has an unholy love for the Alabama Crimson Tide.
So I went up to him at B-Sides last year and I said, War Eagle.
He said, B-Sides.
Really?
I hate you.
I said, look, not really an Auburn fan, but Nick Saban is on a list of three people in
this world that I hate because of what he did to my Dolphins.
Here's another one.
Just for that, Go Blue.
Anybody know what the hashtag Go Blue refers to?
Michigan.
Michigan.
Michigan.
Michigan.
Because that guy's a Buckeye.
Okay?
Anybody from Arizona?
Arizona.
Arizona.
Okay.
From one for Arizona, I have a buddy that went to the University of Arizona.
I'll tell you, my buddy's a wildcat.
I've had people go, oh, I'm the Sun Devil.
The Sun Devil!
Eh!
Anybody from Oregon.
Oregon. Are you a duck or a beaver? Okay. Now, this one's a little dated. It's hard
to use this one still because I'm a long way removed from high school, but I played against
a kid who went to the University of Oregon State. He was a beaver. So, he's a duck. Yeah,
he always beat us. He went to Oregon State. No, can't root for them. But I could flip it
and go, yeah, I got to root for the small town kid who went to a D1 school. And it's
all true because I really did play against him and he really went to Oregon State. So,
what do these last four examples have in common? They're all based on college rivalries.
And these are huge because everybody loves where they went to school. And even if you
didn't go to, you know, one of the major schools in a state, you know somebody that did or
you know somebody that's a fan of that one. And so, here's an example of the breakup
of, you know, how they break up across the country. Okay. So, now I'm going to give
you guys a way to find more.
So, you're going to have to go back and get that information. Because we're really only
from one. And I use Robin's advice from the SEO podcast. Pretext should be based on reality.
Never lie. Exaggeration is okay. If you're caught in a lie, that relationship is dead.
Now, when you're building rapport versus if it's just a one off, lie your butt off,
it doesn't matter.
Okay. So, I wanted to give you guys a way to find more.
But if you're actually trying to build rapport with people, there needs to be some truth to it.
So what I use the best for collecting somewheres is fantasy sports.
Every year, I play fantasy football with my buddies.
I fill out March Madness brackets, and it allows me to collect anchors to different cities across the country.
Okay?
March Madness is a great one.
A couple years ago, I met a guy who went to VCU, Virginia Commonwealth.
The guy's made more money than I'll make in 50 lifetimes.
And our friendship started because I said, man, VCU crushed my bracket the year they made it to the Final Four.
Simple as that.
Just because I filled out a piece of paper every year.
And.
For me, with March Madness, pick a mascot.
Go with that.
It doesn't have to be scientific.
You know, pick a color.
You know, and if you're talking March Madness with people, and you say something goofy like that, it's even funnier.
Because a lot of times, those people get closer than I do.
I follow college basketball.
Okay, here's my fantasy football team from last year.
Yes, I made the playoffs.
And then lost in the first round.
Okay, but look.
I have anchors to eight different cities in the country.
I don't know anything about how the San Diego Chargers, now LA Chargers, finished.
But I know that Melvin Gordon killed it until he got hurt.
So I can talk to every Chargers fan that I run into about that.
One guy.
Because of fantasy football.
Because of just a silly game.
Okay, so how can you actually use this kind of stuff on an engagement?
People that play fantasy sports generally use some app to do it.
And if you're talking with them.
And you say, man, I hate that the default on ESPN fantasy.
is whole numbers well now you know what they use you know they'll go oh we use
this one and let the fishing begin it's that easy plus another thing is whole
companies sometimes play together I have a friend he's a lawyer 30 he's in a
30-16 league at his law firm that's just his law firm so it's just crazy how
you can just get in there and get everybody that way because they all do
it together okay and second thank you to all of you this is my first DEF CON talk
and I had to thank a doctor first because
I probably shouldn't be here to do this but thank you all for coming for Jason
Street's lock after mine
and to show you how sports worked
this was at the end of my CFP and Michelle is a Seahawks fan so it works
anybody have any questions for you know me do you know somebody that does no okay
one thing the fantasy football angle my wife doesn't know anything about football
but she knows I complain about it all the time so if she's hearing other people
talk oh every year my husband says he hates it but he keeps going back and
playing it you know it's it's one of those things if you just dismiss it it's
gonna be tough plus if you don't like sports you don't really know sports
there's there's other ways around it and that's why if you take the opposite
side you give yourself a buffer you know if you're like yeah I'm a Raiders fan
and they're like oh what about this and this you're like oh crap you know
yeah I mean if it's one of those things if you hate it you don't know it like and you can't tie it
to anything in your life yeah I mean that's it's gonna be tough but that's just how it is sometimes
you know I could try and you know build rapport with Chris over food what do you want to eat
let's go to sushi I hate sushi you're like oh crap never mind
you know so sometimes you're just gonna swing and miss and that's life but I
think sports is so easy to use
My obnoxious comment is that your North Carolina rivalry is all wrong.
Thank you. Go to.
Follow up.
Have you ever had a moment where
you couldn't pivot a sports conversation to something that was in your wheelhouse?
That I couldn't pivot a sports conversation?
Like if you're in a conversation have you ever been shocked or do you like it so much that you can play anything sports
and you're so into it for so long that you feel confident to have a conversation with anyone?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
And plus as a bartender you're gonna be able to talk about other things.
Uh
Another thing that is easy for me to talk about is tattoos.
Everybody that has one has a story.
And they will gladly tell it to you.
And whether or not you think it's stupid they will still talk your ear off about them.
Ask me about mine and I'll do the same thing.
Anybody else?
Yeah.
So on the on the question earlier like you don't watch sports.
I don't follow sports.
I've won my fantasy bracket in my office for three years in a row.
Yes.
Nate Silver is my journey blog.
He's a typical model.
There's no emotion in it.
You can play this game and talk with those people and just be like yeah I don't honestly care about any of these things.
But I want to win your money.
Let's talk about how I'm gonna do that.
It's a different way.
And it works.
And you still have that connection.
Another person is Jen Mueller out of Seattle.
She wrote a book called Talk Sporty to Me.
And hers is more the how to deal with it in business and networking.
But she'll post on Twitter like weekly sports review like talking points that you can take to the water cooler.
Jen Mueller.
Yes.
Aside from sports, what are some other topics you think are going to create rapport?
Well, it's based on you.
Because like I said, if you're going to try and actually build rapport, there's got to be some truth to it.
So I can't talk about raising kids because I don't have any.
It's you know, there's just something you can't fake.
And so for me, it's going to be sports.
It's going to be places I've lived, places I've traveled to, tattoos.
You know, I'm a picky eater, so it's probably not going to be food unless we're in Texas and we're going for steaks.
Although I hate the Longhorns.
Because I'd say why I hate the Longhorns.
But my family is going to watch this later.
And I'm not allowed to like the Trojans.
Yeah.
Any other questions?
No.
Okay.
When you talk about sports, does it have like a general goal or a base?
Like nobody was into football, but they're into mixed martial arts.
Because I don't know a lot about mixed martial arts, which is an example.
Mixed martial arts, I'm not a big fight fan.
So I would use that opportunity to let them educate me about it.
Same thing with hockey.
I grew up in LA.
I live in Vegas.
Not exactly the hockey weather in those places.
Okay.
So I'd let them teach me about it.
I'm not a big fan of soccer.
But if I had to build rapport with somebody that was a soccer fan, I would let them teach me about it.
Anybody else?
All right.
Thank you.