1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,220 Welcome back. We're going to continue our speeches here in the Essie Village. 2 00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:06,360 We've got Keith Conway and Cameron Craig. 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:11,060 Today, Keith and Cam are going to give you a crash course in how to hack the monolith. 4 00:00:11,660 --> 00:00:14,420 Cam was the man on the inside with a desire to develop change. 5 00:00:14,980 --> 00:00:18,580 Keith was a consultant on Cam's staff who acted as an advisor 6 00:00:18,580 --> 00:00:21,840 and the link to get the techniques you're about to see into the company. 7 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:24,760 Keith and Cam hope you come away not only entertained, 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:30,180 but educated and empowered to try their framework on your own. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:32,880 Let's give our attention to Keith Conway and Cameron Craig. 10 00:00:33,260 --> 00:00:37,140 Change agents, how to effectively influence intractable corporate cultures. 11 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,060 All right, thanks, Jordan, for coming out. 12 00:00:47,180 --> 00:00:50,500 I really appreciate you guys being here after 7 o'clock on Saturday night 13 00:00:50,500 --> 00:00:52,460 when it's peak party time at DEF CON. 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:54,740 Real quick, I'm Keith. 15 00:00:54,740 --> 00:00:55,600 This is Cam. 16 00:00:56,180 --> 00:00:58,680 We're here to help you guys figure out how to hack intractable corporations. 17 00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:00,500 Just a quick show of hands. 18 00:01:00,860 --> 00:01:01,540 Actually, hold on a second. 19 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,580 Disclaimer, this is our story. 20 00:01:05,660 --> 00:01:06,380 These are our opinions. 21 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:07,600 Your mileage may vary. 22 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:09,220 Don't be evil. 23 00:01:11,020 --> 00:01:14,540 So how many people have worked for or currently work for large corporations? 24 00:01:15,980 --> 00:01:16,860 Okay, awesome. 25 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:21,220 How easy is it or was your experience to try and change or get the culture to move? 26 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:23,440 Exactly. 27 00:01:23,860 --> 00:01:24,300 Exactly. 28 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,280 So everything we talk about tonight is going to go back to this thesis right here. 29 00:01:30,140 --> 00:01:33,300 Corporate culture is hard to fix because of fundamental misalignment of shared vision, 30 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,360 shared value, shared culture, and shared change. 31 00:01:36,980 --> 00:01:39,140 So everything we talk about is going to come back to this. 32 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:45,340 And we want to give you guys tools to take this and have an application tomorrow 33 00:01:45,780 --> 00:01:47,140 and not just have this be all theoretical. 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,620 So I came with a lot of theory. 35 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:51,340 Cam's going to give his perspective from kind of the guy on the inside. 36 00:01:52,380 --> 00:01:54,000 And then let's just jump in. 37 00:01:54,100 --> 00:01:54,540 There's a ton. 38 00:01:54,740 --> 00:01:55,420 There's a ton to go over. 39 00:01:55,620 --> 00:01:58,120 So this happens because of what's called the innovator's dilemma. 40 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:04,880 Essentially what was your competitive advantage in the past becomes what's called like a legacy problem over time. 41 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:05,400 Right? 42 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:07,600 And if you're really interested, look up a guy named Clay Christensen. 43 00:02:07,740 --> 00:02:08,600 He's a professor at Harvard. 44 00:02:08,860 --> 00:02:13,360 If you've heard about disruptive innovation, a lot of people in Silicon Valley use it improperly. 45 00:02:13,380 --> 00:02:15,020 But he's the guy who kind of coined the term. 46 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:18,060 It's also because of exponential growth. 47 00:02:18,460 --> 00:02:18,860 Right? 48 00:02:18,920 --> 00:02:20,420 So the rate of change is accelerating. 49 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,680 Things like in less than 10 years, a phone is going to be expensive. 50 00:02:24,740 --> 00:02:26,040 Fast, your brain is less than $1,000. 51 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:27,600 And that just changes everything. 52 00:02:27,920 --> 00:02:33,300 So what happens is right now, if you don't change, your company is going to go under. 53 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:39,180 But you can't change because of a fundamental misalignment of shared vision, shared culture, shared value, and shared change. 54 00:02:39,620 --> 00:02:47,760 So it's all about how do you craft a narrative to get everybody to carry on and kind of share the vision. 55 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,520 But first we've got to look at large corporations are essentially complex systems. 56 00:02:51,860 --> 00:02:54,620 And complexity theory is really tricky to kind of pin down. 57 00:02:54,740 --> 00:02:55,780 So let's just look at an example real quick. 58 00:02:55,940 --> 00:02:58,500 So there's an idea of complicated versus complex. 59 00:02:58,660 --> 00:03:03,600 If something's complicated, it could be like a plane flying 500 miles an hour through the air. 60 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,480 But you know it's more or less predictable because the probabilities are not going to crash. 61 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:09,340 Like it's tuned very well to be predictable. 62 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:15,020 Versus a complex system, you can have the same input all the time, but the output could be different. 63 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:16,900 So like predicting weather is really, really hard. 64 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,540 So this is a whole other talk in and of itself. 65 00:03:20,700 --> 00:03:21,500 We're not going to get into it. 66 00:03:21,660 --> 00:03:24,720 But suffice to say, there are three properties to kind of focus. 67 00:03:24,740 --> 00:03:27,260 One, non-linearity, emergence, and adaptation. 68 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:33,380 Non-linearity is the idea that the same input can change the output based on context or state. 69 00:03:33,780 --> 00:03:38,880 Emergence is the idea that groups will exhibit behavior that individuals won't display in isolation. 70 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:42,080 Meaning you're going to act differently in a group or a collective versus individually. 71 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:46,540 And adaptation, people in groups are going to change based on responses to the environment. 72 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:48,400 So let's say you use a bookstore. 73 00:03:48,660 --> 00:03:51,000 You want to maintain homeostasis and equilibrium. 74 00:03:51,380 --> 00:03:54,640 And you want people to talk on the phone because if people are talking on the phone, they're going to leave. 75 00:03:54,740 --> 00:04:00,160 So this is kind of like a passive-aggressive signal to the rest of the group that, hey, we don't want you doing that. 76 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:05,220 Now, whenever you're doing OSINT, we're going to come back to this later, 77 00:04:06,620 --> 00:04:10,720 it's really easy to try and just take a ton of information and figure out how to use it. 78 00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:12,900 But this is one of the ways that you can deal with scale. 79 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:17,040 You've got to look at whether the – well, let's look at – 80 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:23,200 homeostasis is actually a collection of how relationships, values, resources, and objectives work in networks. 81 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:24,720 And that's essentially what you're – 82 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:25,420 And that's what corporate culture is. 83 00:04:25,620 --> 00:04:35,020 And that corporate culture will change based on how the market is changing and based on the behaviors and expectations of your employees and your customers. 84 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,300 So, again, this is the OSINT slide. 85 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:46,280 Whenever you're doing OSINT, look at what someone's unmet needs are, what the points of friction are, what the sentiment is, meaning do they like their job, do they hate what they're doing? 86 00:04:46,540 --> 00:04:48,680 And lastly, what do they think success looks like? 87 00:04:48,780 --> 00:04:54,700 Because what they say on their LinkedIn is how they perceive their position versus what the job description says, which is going to be different than what they think. 88 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:56,740 What their boss or the company as a whole thinks they're going to say. 89 00:04:56,900 --> 00:04:59,060 And, again, it's all about a fundamental misalignment. 90 00:05:00,060 --> 00:05:02,960 So, it's a human-centered system, and that's what you've got to design for. 91 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:06,960 And this kind of comes back to our background, if you look us up, which is from, like, design research and design thinking. 92 00:05:07,780 --> 00:05:08,980 But let's get into the next step. 93 00:05:09,220 --> 00:05:11,440 A shared value system, a shared culture carrier wave. 94 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,380 If you want a transformation, you need three things. 95 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,060 You've got to solve your unmet customer needs simply, right? 96 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:21,000 Any great company now does this to a T. 97 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:22,940 You've got to build a great company. 98 00:05:23,060 --> 00:05:23,880 A company has got to be profitable. 99 00:05:24,060 --> 00:05:24,680 It's got to be able to invest. 100 00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:25,300 That can change. 101 00:05:25,540 --> 00:05:31,400 And then, third, you've got to have happy employees that take pride in what they're doing and have a purpose to get out of bed and come to work every day. 102 00:05:32,300 --> 00:05:33,660 Otherwise, they're just coming for benefits. 103 00:05:33,780 --> 00:05:34,420 They're just coming for pay. 104 00:05:34,540 --> 00:05:38,720 There's some other thing that's keeping them there that's making them work hard enough just not to get fired. 105 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:40,260 So, let's unpack this real fast. 106 00:05:41,180 --> 00:05:42,720 Customers, they're your lifeblood of your business. 107 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:44,080 Without them, your company won't exist. 108 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:45,400 You've got to solve the customer needs simply. 109 00:05:46,280 --> 00:05:47,180 Build a great company. 110 00:05:47,380 --> 00:05:48,160 It's got to be profitable. 111 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:49,000 Change is inevitable. 112 00:05:49,280 --> 00:05:50,840 You've got to find a way to invest and keep that going. 113 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:54,680 And then, third, your employees have to really take pride and enjoy what they're doing. 114 00:05:54,700 --> 00:05:57,560 And this is kind of, you need all three things. 115 00:05:57,720 --> 00:06:00,700 So, you heard Jason talk about customers and employees or employees earlier. 116 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:02,600 They're part of the figure. 117 00:06:02,780 --> 00:06:05,080 So, it's customers, employees, and your business all together. 118 00:06:06,660 --> 00:06:11,740 So, there's going to be a hierarchy of value systems that you're going to have to, like, be aware of. 119 00:06:11,900 --> 00:06:20,000 And that's going to go from what the CEO thinks to what the market says is valuable to what your organizational culture says all the way back through your customers. 120 00:06:20,380 --> 00:06:24,580 And there's going to be so much information that you're going to have to have some strategies to kind of collapse this. 121 00:06:24,700 --> 00:06:25,480 And make sense of all this. 122 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,220 To kind of optimize your signal to noise. 123 00:06:27,340 --> 00:06:29,360 So, the first thing is about mapping the architecture of power. 124 00:06:29,660 --> 00:06:33,180 And the other is about mapping continuums of scale time and expertise. 125 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:36,700 So, the architecture of power is all about, like, your formation story. 126 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,240 So, if you're Facebook, you're primarily a developer culture. 127 00:06:39,460 --> 00:06:41,760 So, if you don't code, you have no say, you have no vote. 128 00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:43,120 Because that's essentially how they communicate. 129 00:06:43,700 --> 00:06:44,700 We came from retail. 130 00:06:44,940 --> 00:06:47,900 And in retail, the marketers and the merchandisers had all the power. 131 00:06:48,060 --> 00:06:53,740 Because back in the day, in the early 1900s, when the catalogs came out, if what you had on the shelf didn't sell, you were out. 132 00:06:53,740 --> 00:06:55,240 So, those guys had the power. 133 00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:56,680 And that doesn't change over time. 134 00:06:56,880 --> 00:06:59,840 So, that will help you see, you know, where the power kind of comes from. 135 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,520 Second, continuums will give you trends of value systems. 136 00:07:03,700 --> 00:07:06,640 And this is how you kind of make sense of dynamic kind of chaotic systems. 137 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:11,060 So, for time, if someone's been there longer, they're less likely to want to change. 138 00:07:11,260 --> 00:07:13,560 If someone's newer, they're going to be hungrier for change. 139 00:07:13,740 --> 00:07:21,100 If someone's more of an expert with 35 years of experience, there's a very little chance that they're going to think differently about what they know. 140 00:07:21,260 --> 00:07:23,720 And getting them to kind of see is going to be a lot more of a challenge. 141 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,580 So, Mike Kazenko wrote a book called Red Teams. 142 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:33,960 One of his main premises is that the C-level essentially won't really know what's going on because no one below is incentivized to tell the truth. 143 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,360 And this is going to be one of the biggest challenges you're going to deal with. 144 00:07:37,860 --> 00:07:39,260 So, how do you become a change agent? 145 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:41,420 First things first. 146 00:07:41,820 --> 00:07:43,240 There's this thing called the prisoner's dilemma. 147 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:51,840 If you're into game theory or game mechanics, it's basically about how do you cooperate when you're rational, but people act irrationally. 148 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:53,720 So, let's say, Cameron and I get tired. 149 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:54,860 We're tired of doing what we're doing. 150 00:07:55,020 --> 00:07:55,960 We rob a bank. 151 00:07:56,900 --> 00:07:57,860 We get arrested. 152 00:07:59,220 --> 00:08:00,380 Police separate us. 153 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:01,240 And they say, alright. 154 00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:04,720 Keith, if you rat Cam out, you go free. 155 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:05,480 He gets 20 years. 156 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,080 Please give him the same deal. 157 00:08:08,620 --> 00:08:14,660 What ends up happening is if we cooperated, we'd both get one year and hit a little bit of a pain. 158 00:08:15,100 --> 00:08:17,060 But what ends up happening is we rat each other out. 159 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,500 And we both get 20 years. 160 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,320 So, we're rational individuals. 161 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:23,380 But because we're motivated by self-interest. 162 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:24,120 This is what happens. 163 00:08:24,580 --> 00:08:29,100 So, in an iterated version of a prisoner's dilemma, meaning a version that remembers history. 164 00:08:29,380 --> 00:08:32,540 So, we remember history because we're interacting with one another every day. 165 00:08:32,660 --> 00:08:34,740 And you remember how someone treated you the day before. 166 00:08:35,700 --> 00:08:39,780 The dominant strategy, the thing that works the most, is called reciprocal altruism. 167 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,680 Which is you do the most altruistic thing first and then respond tit for tat. 168 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,420 Meaning you do a nice thing to try and solve their problems. 169 00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,640 And then if they act maliciously or not nice to you, you cut them off. 170 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:54,540 And don't do the same thing. 171 00:08:55,440 --> 00:09:00,560 So, this idea of solving someone's unmet need, this is the golden rule of influence. 172 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:02,220 And where everything starts for our framework. 173 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:06,080 So, if you take Michelle and Chris' class, they'll say, how do you leave someone better than they found you? 174 00:09:06,620 --> 00:09:08,620 What we say is, how do you solve someone's unmet needs? 175 00:09:08,720 --> 00:09:12,240 Whether it's your customer, or in this case, the employees that you're having to work with. 176 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:17,780 So, again, when you're thinking about how do you solve someone's unmet needs, you've got to keep collecting OSINT. 177 00:09:17,860 --> 00:09:18,560 But what do you collect? 178 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:19,720 What are their unmet needs? 179 00:09:19,940 --> 00:09:21,020 What are their points of friction? 180 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,260 What do you think success looks like to them? 181 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:29,520 And even if you're interviewing, ask the same people the same, or ask the different people the same question. 182 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:31,560 You're going to get a thousand different perspectives. 183 00:09:32,540 --> 00:09:36,360 So, the challenge for most people is that they will not suspend their ego. 184 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:42,460 If you do, and just worry about getting results, this took me a long time to learn when I started out my career. 185 00:09:42,580 --> 00:09:44,820 But once I figured it out, it was just like, I took off. 186 00:09:45,340 --> 00:09:46,880 So, two more quick theories. 187 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:50,240 People work essentially for achievement and recognition for achievement. 188 00:09:50,580 --> 00:09:53,520 There's an industrial psychologist back in the 60s, Frederick Herzberg. 189 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:54,680 You can check him out. 190 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:58,100 But people also work for affiliation, influence, and achievement. 191 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:01,500 And right now, this is an economy of attention. 192 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:06,640 So, think about how does someone want to exert influence in front of a certain kind of group within the company? 193 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,940 Whether it's a marketing team, or developers, or whoever. 194 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:23,700 So, now kind of putting this into some context, using a lot of the building blocks to keep it simple. 195 00:10:23,700 --> 00:10:25,900 I think one of the things that Keith talked about, specifically within an organization, 196 00:10:26,820 --> 00:10:29,540 this concept of hyperbolic discounting comes up. 197 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:34,300 Where largely people are motivated for the short-term gain versus the long-term gain. 198 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:38,820 And as Keith was saying about suspending your ego, one of the things that in doing that, 199 00:10:38,980 --> 00:10:42,460 you're more motivated for the long-term gain versus the short-term gain. 200 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,860 Which is a mindset that you have to have throughout this. 201 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,260 Like this is kind of a basic of this entire thing. 202 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:52,900 But largely people are motivated to kind of do things in the short-term that make them look great. 203 00:10:53,700 --> 00:10:55,360 Grab it out of the hat, make the boss look great. 204 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,800 And ultimately, they're not thinking about that bigger picture, which you are. 205 00:11:00,420 --> 00:11:03,180 Which kind of goes to this idea of the prisoner's dilemma as well. 206 00:11:04,680 --> 00:11:07,980 Where everything that most people are thinking about is in their silo. 207 00:11:07,980 --> 00:11:11,880 What is it that I'm doing today to make myself look good, to ultimately get the bonus, 208 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,120 to get the recognition in my space? 209 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:17,800 And the result of all this is people become incredibly predictable. 210 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,840 Which means you can actually use them, seed them with concepts and ideas, 211 00:11:23,700 --> 00:11:24,760 and give them that short-term gain. 212 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:30,180 While in the background, what's going on for you is you're building towards the long-term gain. 213 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:34,780 So the first thing is this idea of psyching yourself. 214 00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,160 Which is the thing that took Keith and I'll say myself a long time to learn. 215 00:11:40,100 --> 00:11:42,740 It's this concept that you're actually giving things away. 216 00:11:43,060 --> 00:11:45,240 Now you're not giving things away necessarily for free. 217 00:11:45,340 --> 00:11:47,040 There is an ulterior motive. 218 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:53,160 But what you're actually trying to do is you're solving unmet needs for those people that you're giving these ideas to. 219 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:54,880 And you're trying to make them look good in the short-term. 220 00:11:54,940 --> 00:11:55,620 Which builds rapport. 221 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,900 Which ultimately turns into support. 222 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:04,060 And that long-term support for your idea, your larger picture, is what actually develops change. 223 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:10,840 So this isn't to say that you just blindly are walking around the organization dropping ideas off. 224 00:12:11,140 --> 00:12:13,680 One of the first things that you have to do is a threat assessment. 225 00:12:13,900 --> 00:12:16,800 And we're not necessarily saying this from a negative aspect. 226 00:12:17,220 --> 00:12:19,320 But you need to understand who is a gatekeeper. 227 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:20,660 Who's a megaphone. 228 00:12:20,660 --> 00:12:23,680 Who's ultimately there to influence other people. 229 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:28,060 And of course you're going to come across the people that are ultimately a threat. 230 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:33,940 And through this you're kind of making a list of the people that you're using for these various activities. 231 00:12:34,100 --> 00:12:37,140 And you're also eliminating people that you don't need to message to. 232 00:12:37,280 --> 00:12:41,300 Or that you need to keep at a bare minimum just sort of tertiary involved. 233 00:12:43,300 --> 00:12:46,140 So remember their ego is actually your friend. 234 00:12:47,220 --> 00:12:49,460 You're actually enabling their success. 235 00:12:49,540 --> 00:12:50,640 And they need to feel that you're there. 236 00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:51,640 You're enabling their success. 237 00:12:51,900 --> 00:12:54,960 And they also need to feel that somehow they are key to your success. 238 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,060 It's a mutual arrangement. 239 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:00,480 So you prioritize their ego above your own. 240 00:13:00,820 --> 00:13:05,920 And ultimately you seed them with the ideas that you want to come across in the larger picture. 241 00:13:06,140 --> 00:13:09,480 And we'll talk about this more as we get into some of the techniques. 242 00:13:11,700 --> 00:13:16,100 There's another thing about this that we've discovered is this idea of OSINT being very fluid. 243 00:13:16,180 --> 00:13:19,940 So we get attached to our information, our ideas, the things that we know. 244 00:13:20,660 --> 00:13:22,240 The things that we hold dear to some degree. 245 00:13:22,340 --> 00:13:23,580 The things that we've discovered first. 246 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:28,780 And it's important to remember that this information is extremely porous. 247 00:13:29,140 --> 00:13:30,480 It's also time sensitive. 248 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:32,360 And it's always changing. 249 00:13:32,460 --> 00:13:33,880 And it's always going out of date. 250 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:36,660 And on a bad day it is potentially misleading. 251 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,040 So the thing is to never get too attached to that. 252 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:41,780 Because the system is always changing. 253 00:13:41,940 --> 00:13:44,940 And thus your information and ultimately your OSINT is changing. 254 00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:50,320 Some techniques for cultivating OSINT within the organization. 255 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,260 So we've been talking about using social capital to gain influence. 256 00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:55,540 That's the first thing. 257 00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:57,260 We talked about threat assessment. 258 00:13:57,380 --> 00:14:01,580 So there's that idea of constantly looking at the threat or the opportunity. 259 00:14:02,140 --> 00:14:07,600 And in these large sort of matrixed environments, the further you go and the more that your message travels, 260 00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,340 what you end up finding is there's more and more people that you actually have to assess. 261 00:14:11,900 --> 00:14:17,180 And each of them has some way of sort of catapulting you up to the next level or potentially taking you down. 262 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:24,040 And as these organizations change, mold into one another or collapse, 263 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:28,480 you've got to kind of continue to take not only the information but the people into account. 264 00:14:30,460 --> 00:14:32,920 So the cycle of OSINT in a nutshell. 265 00:14:34,180 --> 00:14:35,100 Suspend your ego. 266 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:36,760 It's the biggest one. 267 00:14:36,900 --> 00:14:38,520 It's the hardest one as well. 268 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:42,600 That continuous collection of OSINT and knowing that it's porous. 269 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:46,600 The continual reevaluation of the people that are working with you. 270 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:48,660 And then ultimately expanding your influence. 271 00:14:48,780 --> 00:14:53,120 So you're actually trying to target the folks that you know can take your message the furthest. 272 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:57,180 And a personal note out of this. 273 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,220 One of the things that we're really big on is this idea of personal resilience. 274 00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:05,100 This process is not a short-term process. 275 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:06,560 This is a long-term process. 276 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:14,280 I think everybody laughing about how corporations don't change understand the fact that it takes a really long time to make change happen. 277 00:15:14,580 --> 00:15:16,040 So it's kind of not for the faint of heart. 278 00:15:17,180 --> 00:15:20,420 It's one of those things that your primary objective is this forward movement 279 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,100 with both the knowledge that you've gained and the sort of influence that you're building. 280 00:15:25,620 --> 00:15:26,440 That is it. 281 00:15:26,580 --> 00:15:30,420 It isn't really to some degree about the smaller things that you're dropping off. 282 00:15:32,060 --> 00:15:37,500 Because the other end of that is you can immediately get sucked down into mindless detail. 283 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:38,560 Tons of meetings. 284 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:39,580 No decisions. 285 00:15:40,140 --> 00:15:44,580 And the biggest thing in all of this is it erodes your ability to think. 286 00:15:44,980 --> 00:15:46,800 And that is one of the things that 287 00:15:47,180 --> 00:15:52,980 when people come in fresh they've got a perspective, they've got new knowledge, they've got new ideas. 288 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:57,140 And over time that erodes to the point where they become like everybody else. 289 00:15:57,180 --> 00:15:58,040 Stuck in a silo. 290 00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:03,440 Super important to remember there's more of them than you. 291 00:16:03,820 --> 00:16:05,880 You are walking amongst the sheep. 292 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:12,280 And with that numerical superiority comes the potential for being sucked down to the point of death. 293 00:16:12,740 --> 00:16:14,840 Not literally, but you get the meaning. 294 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,460 So the next bit is around the content and the narrative, right? 295 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,440 So it's this idea of you're coming into a situation and you need to learn the narrative 296 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:25,060 so that you can change the narrative. 297 00:16:27,180 --> 00:16:31,840 So as Keith asked in the beginning, everybody's experienced these issues. 298 00:16:31,980 --> 00:16:34,720 We all have a common framework for this working in these large corporations. 299 00:16:34,940 --> 00:16:37,140 But for some reason we don't act. 300 00:16:37,260 --> 00:16:38,280 Things don't change. 301 00:16:38,860 --> 00:16:39,880 So we asked why. 302 00:16:40,460 --> 00:16:43,880 And a lot of what we found as we've gone through this process is 303 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:44,820 the first thing is obvious. 304 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,500 Obviously ego, which we've been talking about. 305 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:47,840 And people feel a threat to that. 306 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,100 The second is this idea of the elephant in the room. 307 00:16:51,180 --> 00:16:57,060 It's like, ooh, this concept that I know is out there, but it's too big and I don't want to talk about it. 308 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:03,480 Or I feel uncomfortable because I've got challenges with my boss or the people that I work with, etc. 309 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,700 The last one, which seems the least nefarious, but is actually the killer of large companies 310 00:17:10,700 --> 00:17:12,700 more than probably the other two, 311 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:14,820 is people actually don't know what they're doing. 312 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:15,300 They don't know where to start. 313 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:18,260 The problem is so big and they work on one little piece 314 00:17:18,260 --> 00:17:20,680 of whatever it is that they do in the company 315 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:22,860 and ultimately they don't see the bigger picture. 316 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:23,500 They've forgotten 317 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,440 that customer service really matters 318 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,180 to a retail organization, as an example. 319 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,700 So how do you rewrite that narrative? 320 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:34,960 So a lot of this is 321 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:36,900 the sort of social engineering tricks 322 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:37,920 that we've been using 323 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,980 which is to focus a story 324 00:17:40,980 --> 00:17:42,600 on something simple that people can get 325 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:43,320 and understand. 326 00:17:44,840 --> 00:17:45,960 There's some theater behind it. 327 00:17:46,140 --> 00:17:48,920 So even the way we present our style 328 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,440 tends to be very visual. 329 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:51,980 These kind of quick hits. 330 00:17:52,300 --> 00:17:53,540 Not a lot of bullet points. 331 00:17:54,380 --> 00:17:55,840 The other thing is to have a plan 332 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:56,960 and to be succinct 333 00:17:56,960 --> 00:17:59,860 and have that plan hit at every level. 334 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,940 So it needs to solve the unmet need 335 00:18:02,940 --> 00:18:04,640 for the person who you're trying to influence 336 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:05,400 at the lower level. 337 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,540 And at the top level it needs to be the macro plan. 338 00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:10,020 And then the last thing is 339 00:18:10,020 --> 00:18:11,060 don't be afraid to get kinetic. 340 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,480 We'll talk a little bit about what that means. 341 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:16,580 So we thought we'd show a little bit of an example 342 00:18:16,580 --> 00:18:18,140 around the work that we've been doing. 343 00:18:19,940 --> 00:18:21,360 So this is the concept 344 00:18:21,360 --> 00:18:22,460 that we kind of came up with 345 00:18:22,460 --> 00:18:24,840 which was this ever-changing thing 346 00:18:24,840 --> 00:18:25,540 within Macy's. 347 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:28,040 So the story is the world is changing 348 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:29,600 away from this, as we all know, 349 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:31,060 to this. 350 00:18:32,060 --> 00:18:34,220 We also threw some financial things in there 351 00:18:34,220 --> 00:18:35,160 to kind of shake things up. 352 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:38,020 The customer is also changing. 353 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:41,020 We, however, are not. 354 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:42,440 So this is a little bit of theater 355 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:44,760 and this is actual, real photos 356 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:46,220 of the environment that we work in. 357 00:18:47,860 --> 00:18:48,260 Lastly, 358 00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:49,220 scare them with their competition 359 00:18:49,220 --> 00:18:51,940 as those people are beginning to fail in the industry. 360 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,560 So this is actually a photo of the Sears 361 00:18:55,260 --> 00:18:56,020 corporate campus 362 00:18:56,020 --> 00:18:57,020 looking at the Sears Tower, 363 00:18:57,220 --> 00:18:58,460 both of which have been sold. 364 00:18:58,660 --> 00:19:00,920 And as you know, most things Sears are being liquidated 365 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,620 or sort of unbranded. 366 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,400 And the next step is you have to have a plan. 367 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,200 So our idea was that Macy's 368 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:11,460 is this magical connection point 369 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:12,520 between brands. 370 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,400 Within the organization, 371 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:15,940 brands are referred to as vendors. 372 00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:18,080 So they're sort of seen as a subordinate. 373 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:19,480 And the idea here was 374 00:19:20,620 --> 00:19:22,100 through the use of data mainly 375 00:19:22,100 --> 00:19:24,480 that we would be this amazing conduit 376 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:25,720 between these two groups of people 377 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,220 and that we would actually bring them together. 378 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,700 So this idea that the future is not cheap products, 379 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:31,840 it's bespoke products. 380 00:19:32,980 --> 00:19:34,920 Customers actually want tailored products. 381 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:36,780 Oh, and hey, look. 382 00:19:37,620 --> 00:19:38,900 We happen to have both 383 00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:41,280 a very large virtual presence 384 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:42,780 and a very broader presence 385 00:19:42,780 --> 00:19:44,200 that we could use to enable this stuff. 386 00:19:46,380 --> 00:19:47,440 Manufacturing is getting cheaper 387 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,160 and wouldn't it be great to make things in America again? 388 00:19:49,300 --> 00:19:51,380 Maybe in all that real estate that's sitting around? 389 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:53,320 And lastly, 390 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,280 our pitch was that essentially 391 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,080 we would use the data that we already have 392 00:19:58,080 --> 00:19:59,100 to fund this effort. 393 00:19:59,260 --> 00:20:02,140 So it is a zero-sum gain in terms of 394 00:20:02,140 --> 00:20:04,360 or a zero-sum spend in terms of 395 00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:05,520 what they need to make this happen 396 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:06,660 or at least get us on the books. 397 00:20:08,900 --> 00:20:09,680 So out of this, 398 00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:11,100 one of the things that we also learned is 399 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:13,620 this is something that people can take with them. 400 00:20:13,980 --> 00:20:15,420 And our two things were 401 00:20:15,420 --> 00:20:16,820 it should be eight words or less 402 00:20:16,820 --> 00:20:19,980 and the message should be so simple 403 00:20:19,980 --> 00:20:21,260 and so easy to get 404 00:20:21,260 --> 00:20:23,040 that 80% of it kind of drops away 405 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:25,080 and the person that you're influencing, 406 00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:26,820 their narrative takes over 407 00:20:26,820 --> 00:20:29,300 and they're the thing that is actually filling the gap 408 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:30,500 and kind of selling it forward. 409 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,240 So again, back to our example. 410 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,440 The best customer experience wins. 411 00:20:36,140 --> 00:20:37,340 Five simple words. 412 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,580 We also kind of threw some payload behind it. 413 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:43,200 It actually enabled that. 414 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,140 This idea of simplicity, convenience, and trust. 415 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,780 Kind of the baseline of everything that needs to be done. 416 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,600 And lastly, as Keith had said, 417 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:52,140 we made the pitch that this is actually 418 00:20:52,140 --> 00:20:53,020 the brand. 419 00:20:53,580 --> 00:20:56,400 In a company that hangs most of its importance 420 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:58,200 around what the brand actually means, 421 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:00,380 saying that 422 00:21:00,380 --> 00:21:01,960 the customer experience is the brand 423 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,180 really kind of 424 00:21:04,180 --> 00:21:06,040 drove that home for both merchants and marketing 425 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:07,540 who are the power structure. 426 00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:10,400 So what about 427 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:10,980 getting kinetic? 428 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:14,100 So we had learned 429 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:15,700 along the way that 430 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:18,320 there was going to be a meeting 431 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:20,220 of basically everybody who was a decision maker 432 00:21:20,220 --> 00:21:21,940 to go or no-go this. 433 00:21:23,260 --> 00:21:24,420 We staged ourselves 434 00:21:24,420 --> 00:21:26,380 outside, waited for everybody to show up. 435 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,620 They were about 20 minutes 436 00:21:28,620 --> 00:21:29,740 in talking about this 437 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,160 plan, their version of the plan. 438 00:21:32,320 --> 00:21:34,600 And we literally slid this under the door 439 00:21:35,380 --> 00:21:36,420 and got the 440 00:21:36,420 --> 00:21:38,020 attention of one of the people who was in the meeting 441 00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:39,080 who picked it up and was like 442 00:21:39,780 --> 00:21:41,620 oh my god, they've solved our problem. 443 00:21:44,360 --> 00:21:46,320 The next thing that we did 444 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:47,740 kind of to prove some of the points 445 00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:49,520 around why this was important 446 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,780 early on in my career there 447 00:21:52,780 --> 00:21:54,000 we had this 448 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:55,160 pope bookmark 449 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:56,660 two popes ago 450 00:21:57,440 --> 00:21:58,000 and 451 00:21:58,860 --> 00:22:00,560 it was largely thought 452 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:01,540 that for some reason 453 00:22:01,540 --> 00:22:03,000 this thing didn't actually exist 454 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:03,720 in our inventory. 455 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,640 It was a flaw in the data. 456 00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:08,480 The funny thing was 457 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:10,740 you actually see on the website that it's available 458 00:22:12,980 --> 00:22:13,460 for delivery. 459 00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:15,680 I'm actually having this conversation with our COO 460 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,880 who doesn't believe that this is reality 461 00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:19,800 and then I hear Furious typing 462 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,580 on the keyboard in his office 463 00:22:21,580 --> 00:22:24,480 and sure enough he finds a whole stack 464 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,320 of them available for delivery 465 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:27,000 in the DC. 466 00:22:29,120 --> 00:22:29,600 Interesting. 467 00:22:31,380 --> 00:22:32,540 So this kind of became 468 00:22:32,540 --> 00:22:34,320 a bit of a badge as well. 469 00:22:34,540 --> 00:22:36,540 So I bought as many of them 470 00:22:36,540 --> 00:22:38,220 as I could buy and I left one in 471 00:22:38,220 --> 00:22:40,020 inventory so it would continue to show up 472 00:22:40,020 --> 00:22:41,620 in search results so that we could keep this 473 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:42,540 thing going. 474 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:44,700 Every single time I met with an exec 475 00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:46,200 to give them any sort of book 476 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,560 like red teaming or change by design 477 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:50,140 they'd get a bookmark. 478 00:22:50,740 --> 00:22:52,220 So they started collecting them. 479 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:53,500 So originally it was like 480 00:22:53,500 --> 00:22:55,460 oh geez he's handing us another bookmark 481 00:22:55,460 --> 00:22:58,200 and then largely it kind of became a symbol 482 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,220 of I'm in the club 483 00:23:00,220 --> 00:23:01,300 I'm in the know. 484 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,460 Like yes there's a little bit of shame involved 485 00:23:03,460 --> 00:23:04,580 but on the other end 486 00:23:06,260 --> 00:23:07,860 I'm thought of highly enough 487 00:23:07,860 --> 00:23:10,200 that I would actually get these bookmarks. 488 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:13,280 within the organization. 489 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:18,340 Alright so one of the other things we did 490 00:23:18,340 --> 00:23:19,760 was called a journey map. 491 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:21,300 And basically all a journey map does 492 00:23:21,300 --> 00:23:23,620 is you map left to right 493 00:23:23,620 --> 00:23:24,680 an actual process. 494 00:23:24,860 --> 00:23:26,960 So all the kind of greenish yellow 495 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:27,780 posts on the top 496 00:23:27,780 --> 00:23:29,740 this is like what checkout looks like. 497 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:30,920 It's like 30 plus steps 498 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,240 which is way too long just to check yourself out. 499 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:34,640 And if you go top to bottom 500 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:35,980 the little pink guys are basically 501 00:23:35,980 --> 00:23:37,660 everything that's busted or like a breakdown. 502 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,660 So we literally have them map out 503 00:23:43,660 --> 00:23:45,800 what it is like for a customer to go 504 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:46,980 and shop and check out. 505 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,060 And we did two of these to have two different stores 506 00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:50,600 and this helps you kind of figure out 507 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:52,380 what the process is and how to deconstruct it. 508 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,140 But the problem is no one really understands 509 00:23:55,140 --> 00:23:57,340 these kind of flows unless you're highly technical 510 00:23:57,340 --> 00:24:00,080 because there's a ton of stuff to just cram in your head. 511 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,320 So Cam's old boss said 512 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,080 someone should just get a couple GoPros 513 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,320 and then record this thing 514 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:06,660 and then show them how long it takes. 515 00:24:07,020 --> 00:24:08,440 So we did that. 516 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:10,320 This guy here is a buddy of mine 517 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:11,620 and that's another friend of mine on the top left. 518 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:14,420 We did a three person crew, super fast and light. 519 00:24:14,780 --> 00:24:16,640 We didn't tell anyone we were doing this 520 00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:18,020 because if we did 521 00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:20,020 then all of a sudden other groups would want to come in 522 00:24:20,020 --> 00:24:21,640 and we'd have to use our editors and do this 523 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:22,840 and it would have taken way too long. 524 00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:25,860 So this is a bunch of tactical packs 525 00:24:25,860 --> 00:24:27,440 and just gear I had because I got a film background. 526 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:29,800 And we just went light and fast. 527 00:24:30,040 --> 00:24:32,100 A couple grip arms, four GoPros, 4K, 528 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:34,400 jam synced, what's called 529 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,040 double system sound so we actually had 530 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,080 shotguns hidden wirelessly back 531 00:24:39,220 --> 00:24:40,680 and we set it up 532 00:24:40,680 --> 00:24:42,000 and filmed it like a little TV series 533 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:43,560 so we have the left side, the right side, 534 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,520 the POS, meaning the little register guy 535 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,420 so you can actually see the details 536 00:24:48,420 --> 00:24:49,920 of what's going on during the transaction 537 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,120 and then we had a little handheld guy in a gimbal 538 00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:53,800 and we edited it all together 539 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,240 and we got really lucked out. 540 00:24:55,380 --> 00:24:59,100 We had one person as a main character 541 00:24:59,100 --> 00:25:00,120 and then three others 542 00:25:00,120 --> 00:25:01,220 that kind of came around. 543 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,980 15 minutes to check out 544 00:25:03,980 --> 00:25:06,500 and we actually had the whole C-level sit 545 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,140 and see that as a pre-read 546 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,420 before we had this meeting 547 00:25:10,420 --> 00:25:11,160 kind of last minute. 548 00:25:11,620 --> 00:25:12,100 Now, 549 00:25:14,020 --> 00:25:16,640 you're not done until the output is right. 550 00:25:17,060 --> 00:25:17,540 So, 551 00:25:18,220 --> 00:25:19,980 this is the boardroom at Macy's 552 00:25:19,980 --> 00:25:21,660 and it's super old school 553 00:25:21,660 --> 00:25:23,720 and I don't know if you guys follow astrology 554 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,520 but this day Mercury went retrograde 555 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:26,860 so all the tech was getting whacked out 556 00:25:26,860 --> 00:25:29,720 and we literally had to go and troubleshoot the scaler 557 00:25:30,220 --> 00:25:31,800 and I had to go with the tech 558 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,160 with the satellite team to make it work 559 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,000 to make sure it presented properly 560 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,340 because Cam was in San Francisco, we were in New York 561 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,120 you can't send high definition video 562 00:25:40,120 --> 00:25:42,000 through the network because it's just going to clip and play 563 00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,680 and they think it's just like 564 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:45,860 okay, whatever, it's no big deal 565 00:25:45,860 --> 00:25:49,000 but it takes a lot to get the IT to go 566 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,480 so you guys are all 567 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:52,000 in security so you know 568 00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:54,340 the sysadmins are your friends, they help you make it work 569 00:25:54,340 --> 00:25:56,160 but again, you're not done until 570 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:57,460 the output is done and tested. 571 00:25:59,260 --> 00:26:00,520 So I think one thing 572 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:01,280 about this 573 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:03,340 at a higher level too was 574 00:26:03,860 --> 00:26:06,420 we did this, as Keith said, to illustrate the point 575 00:26:06,420 --> 00:26:08,420 and it was done in a matter of 576 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:09,780 a couple of weeks 577 00:26:09,780 --> 00:26:11,980 and it became an undeniable 578 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:14,840 fact of how things actually worked 579 00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:16,200 where a lot of times people were saying 580 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,700 oh no, there's a reason why 581 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:20,300 you couldn't actually deny 582 00:26:20,300 --> 00:26:22,140 the fact that things didn't work 583 00:26:22,140 --> 00:26:23,120 when you saw the video 584 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,580 and it was a huge moment of change 585 00:26:25,580 --> 00:26:28,300 you saw that sweep across that board room 586 00:26:28,300 --> 00:26:29,460 from the chairman on down 587 00:26:29,460 --> 00:26:31,060 we have to fix this 588 00:26:31,060 --> 00:26:34,020 and I don't think that would have been done 589 00:26:34,020 --> 00:26:36,140 had we not been able to capture that 590 00:26:36,140 --> 00:26:38,420 and actually show customers struggling through that process 591 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:41,680 so how do you know 592 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,560 when you're getting it right 593 00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:45,680 the first thing is 594 00:26:46,340 --> 00:26:47,680 the narrative is shared 595 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,960 it's a shared vision, people start adopting it 596 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:50,760 people start saying 597 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,960 oh I understand that and yes 598 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,280 I'm all about simplicity 599 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,220 the vision is something that everybody 600 00:26:57,220 --> 00:26:58,220 kind of buys into 601 00:26:58,740 --> 00:27:01,540 and it enables them at the level that they're working at 602 00:27:01,540 --> 00:27:03,620 but they're also seeing it in the larger picture 603 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:05,660 and it also ends up being something 604 00:27:05,660 --> 00:27:06,920 that they can see themselves in 605 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:08,720 which makes it pretty simpler 606 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,480 and ultimately, as we've been saying throughout this 607 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,940 it needs to solve an unmet need 608 00:27:13,940 --> 00:27:16,440 both for them and for the company at large 609 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,820 people do want to actually show up 610 00:27:18,820 --> 00:27:19,540 and do a good job 611 00:27:19,540 --> 00:27:21,000 we definitely saw that 612 00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,300 even in something as large and monolithic 613 00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:24,780 as the environment that we were in 614 00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,040 but they need to have something 615 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:28,260 that they can attach to 616 00:27:28,260 --> 00:27:30,040 and actually feel tangibly involved with 617 00:27:31,460 --> 00:27:32,700 you also know it's working 618 00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:34,520 when they start using your ideas and words 619 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,840 so all of a sudden these hack shirts showed up 620 00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:38,720 okay 621 00:27:39,260 --> 00:27:40,740 they want to hack the company 622 00:27:40,740 --> 00:27:44,100 which is concepts that we had been kind of throwing around 623 00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:45,660 through both the idea of red teaming 624 00:27:45,660 --> 00:27:48,020 and sort of our larger 625 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:50,140 experience in terms of 626 00:27:50,140 --> 00:27:51,660 things that we had built on the fly 627 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:55,320 so 628 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,920 in the end, the process from there 629 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:59,940 is this idea of adapt and iterate 630 00:27:59,940 --> 00:28:01,600 until you get up as far as you can go 631 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,940 and for us, our feeling is 632 00:28:03,940 --> 00:28:05,740 that without buy off from the CEO 633 00:28:05,740 --> 00:28:07,460 and without a mandate from the CEO 634 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:09,660 we're probably going to be pretty slow 635 00:28:11,380 --> 00:28:12,040 so again 636 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:13,440 back to our main concept 637 00:28:14,260 --> 00:28:15,700 everyone wants to be a hero 638 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:18,460 so they want to be able to be 639 00:28:18,460 --> 00:28:19,520 a hero to their boss 640 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,800 but they also want to make sure that they're achieving 641 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:23,120 the things that they set out to do 642 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,140 which are normally called KPIs 643 00:28:26,260 --> 00:28:27,900 one of the things that we 644 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,980 realized as we kept doing this 645 00:28:29,980 --> 00:28:32,200 we kept getting invited to larger and larger meetings 646 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,160 with bigger and bigger divisions around the company 647 00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:36,140 and everybody had their own version 648 00:28:36,140 --> 00:28:37,480 of what they thought success was 649 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:39,840 and we ended up having to kind of map back 650 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:40,640 to the larger thing 651 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:43,700 so we have to kind of tailor the message 652 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:44,620 as we're doing that 653 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:48,600 so again, back to the personal side of it 654 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,860 remember, slow and steady 655 00:28:49,860 --> 00:28:51,860 it takes a long time to get there 656 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:54,600 but the message ends up being the currency 657 00:28:55,540 --> 00:28:57,000 that is being traded 658 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:57,540 and ultimately 659 00:28:57,540 --> 00:28:59,220 they're bringing the message forward 660 00:28:59,220 --> 00:29:00,620 and they're bringing you along with it 661 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,980 so a couple things back to this 662 00:29:03,980 --> 00:29:05,800 and talking about tailoring 663 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:07,200 so 664 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,280 one of the largest groups that we needed to influence 665 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:11,160 was merchandising 666 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,060 and two of the things that they care about most 667 00:29:13,060 --> 00:29:14,740 are this idea of relevancy 668 00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:15,820 product relevancy 669 00:29:15,820 --> 00:29:18,220 how do you actually get a customer to the right product 670 00:29:18,220 --> 00:29:20,040 and partnerships 671 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,480 so we wrote a vignette where we talked about 672 00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,740 one of the partners that we were working with, Fitbit 673 00:29:25,340 --> 00:29:27,180 using their data to enrich 674 00:29:27,780 --> 00:29:28,640 our data 675 00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:30,740 and ultimately use that to drive 676 00:29:30,740 --> 00:29:33,260 what the customer sees on the website 677 00:29:33,740 --> 00:29:35,260 and we pitched this idea 678 00:29:35,260 --> 00:29:38,180 of a dynamic page that would not only 679 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,360 present products but also would present 680 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:41,820 ideas for 681 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:43,480 runners as an example 682 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,160 because we know that you're running 683 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:46,640 and how much you're running from Fitbit 684 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,980 we can also recommend products to go along with your Fitbit 685 00:29:49,980 --> 00:29:51,340 we also could say 686 00:29:51,340 --> 00:29:53,580 hey, after a while Nike shoes wear out 687 00:29:54,140 --> 00:29:55,980 you do 10 miles a week 688 00:29:55,980 --> 00:29:57,740 you should probably be switching shoes out 689 00:29:57,740 --> 00:29:59,220 every 45 days 690 00:29:59,220 --> 00:30:01,660 and again this idea that the data 691 00:30:01,660 --> 00:30:02,960 is really the currency 692 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,680 and that mesh between data stores 693 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:07,980 is ultimately the thing that's going to drive a better experience 694 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:10,520 so how did it work? 695 00:30:12,100 --> 00:30:13,380 it worked pretty well 696 00:30:13,380 --> 00:30:15,480 so this is an actual message 697 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:16,980 the names have been blanked out 698 00:30:16,980 --> 00:30:18,500 but you can see it's 699 00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:19,580 hey Cam, I just got off the phone 700 00:30:19,580 --> 00:30:21,340 with the head of merchandising 701 00:30:21,340 --> 00:30:22,940 and apparently you guys were a hit 702 00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:25,300 they apparently couldn't stop talking about the presentation 703 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:26,480 and how important it was 704 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:28,300 they think you guys are super smart 705 00:30:28,300 --> 00:30:29,820 and they want people to see it 706 00:30:29,820 --> 00:30:30,760 awesome job 707 00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:34,960 which actually did get us to the place 708 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,360 where we were developing content for the C level 709 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,420 so these are two folks that are on the board 710 00:30:41,180 --> 00:30:42,780 and the thing that you can't see 711 00:30:42,780 --> 00:30:43,380 is this slide 712 00:30:43,380 --> 00:30:46,060 so they actually just pulled the slide straight out of our deck 713 00:30:46,060 --> 00:30:46,880 and stuck it in there 714 00:30:47,260 --> 00:30:48,340 which was pretty amazing 715 00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:51,600 and that's what you want to actually have happen 716 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,020 that's how this whole thing works 717 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:55,820 the secret sauce is basically 718 00:30:56,380 --> 00:30:58,460 getting them to take parts of your vision 719 00:30:59,180 --> 00:31:00,240 and they're going to use that 720 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,540 to make themselves look good 721 00:31:01,540 --> 00:31:02,640 in front of their own bosses 722 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,460 and then at some point 723 00:31:04,460 --> 00:31:06,180 they're not going to be able to explain the whole thing 724 00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:09,780 they're going to have to bring you along too 725 00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:11,760 and if you take some time 726 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,960 to polish your presentation 727 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:14,820 how you move 728 00:31:14,820 --> 00:31:16,500 then it'll help 729 00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:17,920 and this is essentially the secret sauce 730 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,680 as you're solving unmet needs for people 731 00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,900 you want to do that in a coordinated manner 732 00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:24,360 because if you just do one 733 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,540 then one group like the tech or design team 734 00:31:27,540 --> 00:31:28,620 they're getting their needs met 735 00:31:28,620 --> 00:31:30,660 but if you can do three or four in parallel 736 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:32,440 everyone's going to be going here 737 00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:34,340 but you're going to be pushing the value up here 738 00:31:34,340 --> 00:31:37,340 and so as everybody's acting in their own self interest 739 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,020 we're going to actually help you get to where you want to go 740 00:31:40,020 --> 00:31:40,820 which is changing the vision 741 00:31:40,820 --> 00:31:43,820 and that's a subtle way that you change corporate culture 742 00:31:43,820 --> 00:31:45,220 without disturbing the equilibrium 743 00:31:45,220 --> 00:31:47,620 within the bigger beast 744 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:51,760 so again as Keith was saying too 745 00:31:51,760 --> 00:31:53,520 it's all about the efficient amplification 746 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:55,780 and again in large companies 747 00:31:55,780 --> 00:31:57,200 what it usually comes down to 748 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,180 not to be totally crass, is the finances 749 00:31:59,820 --> 00:32:01,420 it's people's personal finances 750 00:32:01,420 --> 00:32:03,460 it's the thing that are the objectives 751 00:32:03,460 --> 00:32:05,900 that generate their salary, their bonuses, etc 752 00:32:06,380 --> 00:32:07,880 so at a low level you're using that 753 00:32:08,460 --> 00:32:09,680 at a higher level 754 00:32:10,340 --> 00:32:12,200 the performance of the company 755 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:13,800 the ultimate performance of the company 756 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,220 is what the C-level is judged on 757 00:32:16,220 --> 00:32:17,800 and that has a trickle down effect 758 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,540 most people that we encountered 759 00:32:20,540 --> 00:32:22,160 never really thought about that 760 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:23,720 they thought about their own KPIs 761 00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:24,760 and the things that would generate 762 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:27,060 the highest possibility of a bonus for them 763 00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:29,260 they never thought about the fact that 764 00:32:29,260 --> 00:32:30,240 some things that they were doing 765 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,420 were contrary to the larger picture 766 00:32:32,420 --> 00:32:34,000 or even to other groups 767 00:32:34,860 --> 00:32:36,700 the prisoner's dilemma to some degree 768 00:32:38,440 --> 00:32:40,220 of that was a huge 769 00:32:40,220 --> 00:32:41,380 step forward 770 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,340 as you're kind of climbing up 771 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:45,820 this rung 772 00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:47,500 the important thing is again 773 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:49,800 to get out of the micro and stay macro 774 00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:52,360 so people are ultimately going to be 775 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,100 thinking about the things within their silo 776 00:32:54,100 --> 00:32:55,940 but the thing that we're ultimately trying to do 777 00:32:55,940 --> 00:32:57,900 is make sure that that macro level is represented 778 00:32:58,420 --> 00:33:00,420 now at every level the thing that we're also trying to do 779 00:33:00,420 --> 00:33:02,500 is in addition to the OSINT that we're throwing out 780 00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:04,060 we're also throwing out tangible ideas 781 00:33:04,060 --> 00:33:05,400 to help them get to their goals 782 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,780 which largely should, if they're coordinated 783 00:33:08,640 --> 00:33:10,960 get the company to its larger goal 784 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,800 so this idea of a shiny object 785 00:33:13,420 --> 00:33:14,500 at every point 786 00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:16,420 so we're helping kind of seed ideas 787 00:33:16,420 --> 00:33:17,720 that make the larger vision work 788 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:21,120 and the objectives at the divisional level 789 00:33:22,340 --> 00:33:23,260 and then ultimately 790 00:33:23,260 --> 00:33:24,320 the thing that you're trying to do 791 00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:25,060 as we've been saying 792 00:33:25,060 --> 00:33:26,620 is you're trying to get that buy off 793 00:33:26,620 --> 00:33:27,840 from the CEO 794 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:28,960 and for us specifically 795 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:31,160 we were trying to get red teaming 796 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,660 as an actual signed on activity 797 00:33:34,660 --> 00:33:36,580 within the company that was sanctioned 798 00:33:39,380 --> 00:33:41,000 so in the end it comes down to 799 00:33:41,000 --> 00:33:42,400 are you in or are you out 800 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:44,420 both you the individual 801 00:33:44,420 --> 00:33:45,120 and the company 802 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,900 so we want to acknowledge that it's taxing 803 00:33:49,540 --> 00:33:50,420 it definitely 804 00:33:50,420 --> 00:33:52,440 was something that we had to keep 805 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:53,680 pushing towards 806 00:33:54,220 --> 00:33:56,540 the other thing is you can lose and win 807 00:33:57,140 --> 00:33:58,200 or win and lose 808 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:00,520 depending on how you look at it 809 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:02,000 and again that's all kind of mindset 810 00:34:03,220 --> 00:34:04,880 or you can get to the CEO 811 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:06,380 and he says I'm in 812 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:08,340 and it's great if 813 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:10,520 he says I'm in and doesn't suffer from the 814 00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:11,880 but where do we attack this problem 815 00:34:12,540 --> 00:34:14,320 and you get a clear direction 816 00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,120 but in some cases you get 817 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:17,940 I'm in and then nothing materially changes 818 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,580 and these are all kind of the risks that you take 819 00:34:20,580 --> 00:34:22,300 when you're trying to make change happen 820 00:34:22,300 --> 00:34:22,980 at this level 821 00:34:22,980 --> 00:34:25,460 but it really is about that resilience 822 00:34:25,460 --> 00:34:27,500 and I think that's one of the things that we've learned 823 00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:29,680 is we actually did win 824 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:30,800 the company won 825 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,820 we might not have gotten to all of the goals that we wanted 826 00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:35,060 but at the end of the day 827 00:34:35,580 --> 00:34:38,420 the learnings that we took forward and the things that we gained 828 00:34:38,440 --> 00:34:39,560 from this were a huge win 829 00:34:40,380 --> 00:34:41,940 so outside of the company 830 00:34:42,860 --> 00:34:44,360 there are other people 831 00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:44,940 that did win 832 00:34:44,940 --> 00:34:48,080 so this idea that we were talking about actually got patented 833 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,840 in the time that 834 00:34:50,420 --> 00:34:51,560 we were throwing it out 835 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,880 so this idea of making manufacturing happen 836 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,420 at a very localized, personalized level 837 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,320 our friends at Amazon 838 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,000 have patented that 839 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:02,480 at the same time 840 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,240 they also decided that they were going to 841 00:35:04,240 --> 00:35:06,180 up their game in terms of customer service 842 00:35:06,180 --> 00:35:08,240 through a small company called Whole Foods 843 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:11,520 back to us internally 844 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,360 and again to the KPIs 845 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:14,700 you can see here 846 00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:16,880 this is actually the real stock chart 847 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:17,820 for the last year 848 00:35:18,720 --> 00:35:20,980 we've put arrows where we actually made the presentation 849 00:35:20,980 --> 00:35:21,800 to the CEO 850 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:22,820 where a lot of it was 851 00:35:23,500 --> 00:35:25,800 let's change how we're messaging to the street 852 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,400 and let's also change the core objectives 853 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,640 of what we're trying to get through 854 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:31,480 as a company 855 00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:32,880 and make that extremely clear 856 00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:35,900 and the company value actually went up by 10% 857 00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:37,220 in that timeline 858 00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:38,960 so that's the peak there 859 00:35:42,980 --> 00:35:44,540 lastly for those who are 860 00:35:45,220 --> 00:35:46,620 trying to be change agents 861 00:35:46,620 --> 00:35:47,840 the thing that we've realized 862 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,200 and we've seen it while here at DEF CON 863 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:50,940 the last three days 864 00:35:50,940 --> 00:35:52,640 is this pattern is everywhere 865 00:35:53,340 --> 00:35:55,120 we've just talked to people in the halls 866 00:35:55,120 --> 00:35:57,920 and it's like they're regaling you with their stories 867 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:59,080 like oh I worked at this company 868 00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,180 and it's the exact same problem 869 00:36:01,180 --> 00:36:04,340 it is not confined to a single sector 870 00:36:04,340 --> 00:36:05,260 or a single industry 871 00:36:05,260 --> 00:36:06,340 it's everywhere 872 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,560 it's a ripe opportunity for change 873 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:12,460 and people that know how to change 874 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,520 our thing is we think that we're kind of 875 00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:17,780 just at the genesis of this 876 00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:19,780 and it's really beginning to take hold 877 00:36:19,780 --> 00:36:21,600 in terms of something that people are looking for 878 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:23,020 in terms of help 879 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:26,780 so in the end 880 00:36:28,060 --> 00:36:29,820 you're trying to build shared vision 881 00:36:29,820 --> 00:36:30,560 shared values 882 00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:31,920 shared culture 883 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:33,460 and sharing in the change 884 00:36:33,460 --> 00:36:37,180 amongst the employees, the business, and the customers 885 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:38,880 and at the very end 886 00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,720 if you remember nothing else 887 00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:42,620 take a picture of this or look at this 888 00:36:42,620 --> 00:36:46,180 solving unmet needs for your co-workers 889 00:36:46,180 --> 00:36:47,680 is how you kind of start building rapport 890 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:49,660 you've got to suspend your ego 891 00:36:49,660 --> 00:36:52,460 so you understand how to leverage your social capital 892 00:36:52,460 --> 00:36:53,280 because that's your currency 893 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,840 learn the current narrative 894 00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,980 then change it, keep your message simple 895 00:36:56,980 --> 00:36:58,020 less than eight words 896 00:36:58,020 --> 00:37:00,560 and then strategically coordinate the vectors 897 00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:01,480 like we talked about earlier 898 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,220 and then just rinse and repeat, adapt and iterate 899 00:37:04,220 --> 00:37:05,020 until you hit the CEO 900 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:08,840 thank you 901 00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:18,160 so does anyone have any questions 902 00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:18,640 or 903 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,320 no 904 00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:22,300 sure 905 00:37:47,260 --> 00:37:48,140 It's a challenge 906 00:37:48,140 --> 00:37:52,400 if you're just going to have a simple idea 907 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:54,680 and then everyone is going to be pulling it 908 00:37:54,680 --> 00:37:55,980 and you can't stop that 909 00:37:55,980 --> 00:37:57,780 then you may not want to be working there 910 00:37:57,780 --> 00:38:00,640 because the culture there is one of 911 00:38:01,780 --> 00:38:02,400 it's not 912 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:03,460 I'm not going to say theft 913 00:38:03,460 --> 00:38:05,880 but it's not egalitarian in a way 914 00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,280 it is a challenge you know 915 00:38:10,620 --> 00:38:12,840 I think the thing that we've had to do 916 00:38:12,840 --> 00:38:14,040 is it's constant innovation 917 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,580 so we're always trying to be at least 918 00:38:16,580 --> 00:38:18,620 nine to eighteen months ahead 919 00:38:18,620 --> 00:38:20,380 so the things that we're trying to get done 920 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,880 now that people would potentially 921 00:38:23,440 --> 00:38:23,960 steal 922 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:24,800 I'll borrow that word 923 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,500 is the stuff that we had conceived 924 00:38:28,500 --> 00:38:29,920 eighteen months ago 925 00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:32,140 so we were already on the way to 926 00:38:32,140 --> 00:38:34,720 a new concept that we were trying to actually pitch 927 00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:36,380 and that 928 00:38:36,380 --> 00:38:38,120 is the thing that keeps you employed 929 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:39,640 is you have to be in that space 930 00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:40,840 where you're sort of forward looking 931 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,680 beyond what's just happening today 932 00:39:00,180 --> 00:39:01,240 It's a great question 933 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:03,900 so I've seen this culture 934 00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:05,640 in pretty much every 935 00:39:06,270 --> 00:39:07,640 company that I've either consulted for 936 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:08,660 or been working for 937 00:39:08,660 --> 00:39:12,040 you can get an audience with the CEO sometimes 938 00:39:12,040 --> 00:39:13,700 if you have that level of influence 939 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:15,880 for me where I was 940 00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:18,120 in the stack of hierarchy 941 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,080 there were two layers above me 942 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:21,440 between me and the CEO 943 00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,820 so I could actually pick up the phone and call him 944 00:39:23,820 --> 00:39:24,900 the problem is 945 00:39:24,900 --> 00:39:27,260 you can have an awesome conversation with him 946 00:39:27,260 --> 00:39:28,580 and the minute he leaves the room 947 00:39:28,580 --> 00:39:30,920 you're going to get pawned off to somebody who 948 00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:33,640 ultimately is either at my level or a lower level 949 00:39:34,460 --> 00:39:36,620 and that is where good ideas go to die 950 00:39:36,620 --> 00:39:37,900 so our 951 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,020 thing was instead of having 952 00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:42,060 a feel good meeting where largely 953 00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:43,620 it's like yeah that's a great idea Cam 954 00:39:43,620 --> 00:39:44,700 let's go do that 955 00:39:44,700 --> 00:39:47,760 and then it's like I'm going to bring in all the people from 956 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,320 the 27 departments that need to 957 00:39:50,320 --> 00:39:50,800 get this done 958 00:39:51,620 --> 00:39:54,300 our idea was could you get the idea 959 00:39:54,300 --> 00:39:55,700 to them and seed it 960 00:39:55,700 --> 00:39:58,280 first and then go to the 961 00:39:58,280 --> 00:40:00,320 CEO with this sort of grander 962 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,220 vision and have that buy in already 963 00:40:02,220 --> 00:40:03,740 done to some degree 964 00:40:04,780 --> 00:40:05,260 yeah 965 00:40:06,940 --> 00:40:07,820 that one I'm 966 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,180 hoping doesn't exist in every 967 00:40:10,740 --> 00:40:11,820 corporate culture but 968 00:40:11,820 --> 00:40:14,520 I've yet to see one that doesn't exist 969 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:15,540 because again people 970 00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:18,480 they're working in their silo and they probably want to 971 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:20,320 do what they need to do to make their 972 00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:22,040 objectives they're not really interested in your 973 00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,240 objectives without some buy in 974 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:29,040 yeah 975 00:40:34,620 --> 00:40:36,100 yeah I mean I think 976 00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,320 unfortunately it is the CEO he can 977 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:40,500 either make or break what you're doing and in the time 978 00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:42,440 that we were doing this we actually 979 00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:44,320 had the fortune or misfortune however 980 00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,060 you want to look at it of having two CEOs 981 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:48,320 the departing 982 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:49,840 CEO and the incoming CEO 983 00:40:50,240 --> 00:40:52,340 and our choice was let's go after 984 00:40:52,340 --> 00:40:53,840 the incoming CEO because one 985 00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:56,260 he's closer aligned to how we think but he's 986 00:40:56,260 --> 00:40:58,240 also going to be the guy who's going to be the CEO 987 00:40:59,060 --> 00:41:00,240 the previous CEO 988 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:01,880 was definitely not a fan 989 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:04,360 of any of this so it was 990 00:41:05,340 --> 00:41:06,340 again bide your 991 00:41:06,340 --> 00:41:08,260 time and wait for the new guy to come in 992 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:12,020 so it's a good question 993 00:41:12,020 --> 00:41:14,440 I don't think there is 994 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:16,300 one most important 995 00:41:16,300 --> 00:41:18,440 person in the threat matrix there are people 996 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,140 in that matrix who are going to try and be like 997 00:41:20,140 --> 00:41:22,340 you know no you're not doing this because it's 998 00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:24,100 going to threaten me and people are going to be like yes 999 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:26,480 I want to do that so part of the matrix 1000 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,320 is understanding who's going to help you who's going to 1001 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,160 hurt you the ones that are going to hurt you just 1002 00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:32,420 do whatever you can to get out of the way the ones that 1003 00:41:32,420 --> 00:41:34,020 are going to help you figure out how to incentivize them 1004 00:41:34,020 --> 00:41:36,460 keep going and you know 1005 00:41:36,460 --> 00:41:38,340 like I said there's so much we could talk about 1006 00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,680 today that we didn't and trying to develop 1007 00:41:40,180 --> 00:41:42,260 this down to a simple succinct talk was a lot of 1008 00:41:42,260 --> 00:41:44,380 work but in your case 1009 00:41:45,060 --> 00:41:46,280 you know if you're a large 1010 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:47,900 company people want to just 1011 00:41:48,380 --> 00:41:50,380 take advantage of certain things so one of the 1012 00:41:50,380 --> 00:41:52,060 tricks we would use is okay hey 1013 00:41:52,580 --> 00:41:54,100 if we know someone wants to 1014 00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:56,400 sync us we get some other 1015 00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:57,940 project managers to kind of help out and 1016 00:41:57,940 --> 00:42:00,440 slow them down and then give them something to do 1017 00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,240 because you know they want to have control 1018 00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:04,340 and they want to have solidarity in what they're 1019 00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:06,320 doing and that's fine but 1020 00:42:06,320 --> 00:42:08,140 it's you know you got to understand it's a complex 1021 00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:10,380 system so it's not just linear where 1022 00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:12,420 this is number one high priority this is 1023 00:42:12,420 --> 00:42:14,360 number two it's like ebbs and 1024 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:14,660 flows 1025 00:42:24,660 --> 00:42:26,300 so I was an actual 1026 00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:28,320 employee so I hired 1027 00:42:29,180 --> 00:42:30,280 well Keith 1028 00:42:30,280 --> 00:42:32,220 was actually working there as well 1029 00:42:32,220 --> 00:42:34,440 as a consultant but I 1030 00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,400 pulled him from other 1031 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,220 projects and essentially saw 1032 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,340 potential for doing this so we went 1033 00:42:40,340 --> 00:42:40,900 after this 1034 00:43:05,220 --> 00:43:07,980 that's more my style I think it's easier 1035 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:10,060 I come from a film background 1036 00:43:10,060 --> 00:43:12,360 special effects and film sound so this 1037 00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:13,960 to me is like a storyboard for 1038 00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,120 a film but you know 1039 00:43:16,120 --> 00:43:18,140 disguising a business plan and a corporate 1040 00:43:18,140 --> 00:43:19,860 vision to get everybody to kind of latch onto 1041 00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:22,280 yeah exactly so 1042 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,080 for me it's easier 1043 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,300 to kind of see an image and it jogs what I want to say 1044 00:43:26,300 --> 00:43:28,400 because I didn't have like a billion things in 1045 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,140 my mind always going on in parallel 1046 00:43:30,140 --> 00:43:32,040 so instead of sitting and reading 1047 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,960 and that's the thing too like you 1048 00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,260 sit in any kind of large corporation it's 1049 00:43:36,260 --> 00:43:38,420 just like 200 slides 1050 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,260 by dense powerpoint decks 1051 00:43:40,260 --> 00:43:42,280 that no one reads it doesn't matter 1052 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,120 what level they are and they see this 1053 00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:46,240 I mean you can read this 1054 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:48,540 over lunch or over a cup of coffee on your phone 1055 00:43:48,540 --> 00:43:50,340 or at your desk and just 1056 00:43:50,340 --> 00:43:52,220 follow along like a story it doesn't have any 1057 00:43:52,220 --> 00:43:54,340 crazy big words it's all really simple 1058 00:43:54,340 --> 00:43:56,400 that's the idea so it's 1059 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:58,160 just how do you keep them engaged 1060 00:43:58,160 --> 00:44:00,320 as long as possible in as a simple 1061 00:44:00,860 --> 00:44:02,380 way as possible so it's a good 1062 00:44:02,380 --> 00:44:02,680 question 1063 00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:06,160 I think one thing 1064 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:08,360 to kind of see in this is 1065 00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:09,960 we have a 1066 00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,340 a trick that we use where we put the 1067 00:44:12,340 --> 00:44:14,080 most important point at the bottom so 1068 00:44:15,740 --> 00:44:16,360 let's see if 1069 00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:18,260 I can find one that's good that has that 1070 00:44:18,260 --> 00:44:20,240 this is a good one so strategy 1071 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,340 coordination and hyperbolic discounting bias will 1072 00:44:22,340 --> 00:44:23,860 help you build a vision and these 1073 00:44:23,860 --> 00:44:25,680 other elements that we've used 1074 00:44:26,240 --> 00:44:28,360 the iconography around are really 1075 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:30,280 the bullet points but it takes it out of that 1076 00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,280 bullet that nobody's 1077 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:34,300 going to read and again you're probably going to pay more 1078 00:44:34,300 --> 00:44:36,440 attention to the visuals and then whatever is being said 1079 00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:38,360 but if we were to hand the deck off 1080 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,020 and not be here to present it 1081 00:44:40,580 --> 00:44:42,120 it's kind of follow the bouncing ball 1082 00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:44,360 where you read the thing in the black and that's kind of 1083 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,240 the main concept and then you're like oh I 1084 00:44:46,240 --> 00:44:47,400 got it you know 1085 00:44:48,380 --> 00:44:50,340 so that's kind of one of the IA 1086 00:44:50,340 --> 00:44:52,120 tricks that we are using across 1087 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:52,480 this 1088 00:44:57,820 --> 00:45:04,280 yeah simplicity is the key 1089 00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:05,740 to brilliance Bruce Lee 1090 00:45:06,560 --> 00:45:08,000 again too these little icons 1091 00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:09,860 this is like a bulleted list in a way just with icons 1092 00:45:09,860 --> 00:45:11,940 but if you guys go to the nounproject.com 1093 00:45:11,940 --> 00:45:13,920 ten bucks a month they have tons of icons 1094 00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:15,620 this is really simple 1095 00:45:15,620 --> 00:45:18,180 I mean it's royalty free unless you're printing t-shirts 1096 00:45:18,180 --> 00:45:20,140 and stuff but this is just 1097 00:45:20,140 --> 00:45:22,260 and again it's really 1098 00:45:22,260 --> 00:45:24,320 easy but people will try and attack this 1099 00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:25,740 so they'll say oh you're just 1100 00:45:25,740 --> 00:45:28,260 one of the designy kind of decks this is a pretty deck 1101 00:45:28,260 --> 00:45:29,980 instead of it's one of our 1102 00:45:29,980 --> 00:45:32,160 you know monolithic powerpoint 1103 00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,280 you know tomes of information that nobody 1104 00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,340 reads so it's going to happen and don't worry about it 1105 00:45:36,340 --> 00:45:38,380 just keep doing what you do keep it simple 1106 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:39,860 and keep pushing the message forward 1107 00:45:43,740 --> 00:45:44,860 the nounproject 1108 00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:47,160 the nounproject.com 1109 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:49,920 it's got amazing search engines 1110 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,840 so you can put any concept in and 1111 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,460 you'll largely get iconography 1112 00:45:54,460 --> 00:45:55,840 that makes sense and if not 1113 00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,440 you can quickly kind of come up with something else 1114 00:45:58,440 --> 00:45:59,280 that will get you stuff 1115 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,280 thank you really thanks so much 1116 00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:09,240 applause