1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,240 Welcome. It's great to have you here. It's really great to have Roden here, though, because he's the speaker. 2 00:00:05,420 --> 00:00:13,460 If he wasn't here, this would be really boring. So I didn't bother asking him what kind of intro he wanted because I knew I was going to pick this one by myself. 3 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:25,160 This man is a pillar of the community who has just been making all kinds of fun, well, I mean, I guess phone stuff originally, but, well, I mean, technically it's radio, too. 4 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:32,740 Running your own phone network and then running your own pager network is, I mean, I guess that's kind of loosely related to one of those freak guys. 5 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:39,700 Telefreak, yeah. And then a whole repeater network. I mean, basically he says he's a phone guy, but everything I see up there is a radio. 6 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:48,360 So I got to say, this man has been our brother who we've basically never spoken to for years, and I'm very pleased to finally have him at our event. 7 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:54,640 So I want everyone to thank Andrew for his time, and please enjoy POCSAG Amateur Radio Pager Network. 8 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:55,140 What? 9 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:55,300 Woo-hoo! 10 00:00:57,980 --> 00:01:05,640 Thank you. Thank you. Thank you all for coming. This is kind of a passion that me and my friends and family kind of all share. 11 00:01:07,460 --> 00:01:11,980 And RF Tech's Sidney Vicious was the world's only hacker dog, so I dedicated it to him. 12 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,140 I work for Aspiron Security, Aspiron Security Labs, so shout out to them. 13 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:25,100 As he said, I'm Andrew Strutt. My call sign is Kilo 6 Alpha Delta Sierra for the Amateur Pager Network and the repeater network, or repeater system. 14 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:31,060 I have an event call sign for November 7 Tango, so that'll be good until Tuesday. 15 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,560 So I'm going to go through the POCSAG network first, and I have some screenshots for it. 16 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,700 I didn't bring the POCSAG network. It's actually up in my room, still transmitted and working. 17 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:45,540 So if you page or send a tweet for specific hashtags, it'll come out the pager network and whatnot. 18 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:52,820 And if you're an amateur radio operator and you have a call sign, you can transmit on that frequency with the appropriate cap codes, and you can communicate with it as well. 19 00:01:52,900 --> 00:01:54,300 So, um... 20 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:56,420 So we'll get right into it here. 21 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:00,000 So, talk about how, and also the why. 22 00:02:00,500 --> 00:02:12,600 So, we've been doing this for, gosh, I think five years, and originally the idea was me and Jay Falcon were talking about what we could do radio-wise, and something really old school. 23 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:21,000 And we got inspired by a former or current old school telefreaker who gave a talk at DEFCON 16. 24 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,720 He goes by NYC Mike and Snuffleupagus. 25 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:31,000 So, originally that was his thing, and so we decided to bring it back. 26 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,020 And it's been a success. This is our fifth year doing it. 27 00:02:33,140 --> 00:02:39,320 So, the idea originally was to put together the equipment and to design and test it. 28 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:48,200 At the time, when I was talking with Jay Falcon about it, we rolled around the different ideas over extreme distances and extreme time zone differences. 29 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,060 It was a long process to decide what to do and how to do it. 30 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,640 I had engineered it all kind of in my head on paper. 31 00:02:53,940 --> 00:02:55,040 And he had some ideas. 32 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,100 He had some ideas on the software and the coding of it. 33 00:02:57,660 --> 00:03:03,580 And so, while I was in Afghanistan, I ended up buying all the equipment and did some tests with it, and then I sent it all to Jay Falcon. 34 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:09,760 So, major props to Mr. Jay Falcon, who did significant amount of grunt work to make it all work while I was overseas. 35 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,540 And it's been a success ever since. 36 00:03:12,780 --> 00:03:18,300 So, it pretty much boils down to these five pieces of equipment that make it work. 37 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:19,800 So, I'll show you some of the pictures. 38 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:24,600 But most of it really relies on, obviously, the transmitter for the POGSAC. 39 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,680 Which is a cheap Chinese black box. 40 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:34,040 Not necessarily part 97 FCC compliant, but doing experimentation is something that you can do with amateur radio. 41 00:03:34,420 --> 00:03:35,940 And it works very well. 42 00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:39,140 So, the other piece is the amplifier. 43 00:03:39,460 --> 00:03:40,480 And I'll show you a picture of that. 44 00:03:41,340 --> 00:03:42,840 We're not pushing 100 watts. 45 00:03:43,060 --> 00:03:47,060 The amplifier will take 10 watts in to produce 100 watts out. 46 00:03:47,720 --> 00:03:55,140 Last time I tested it a few years ago when I was a little worried about it and doing the RF exposure math because the antenna was in my hotel room. 47 00:03:55,140 --> 00:03:56,220 The first year. 48 00:03:56,380 --> 00:04:01,040 So, that was pretty funny as we discussed that and doing the measurement of the radiation exposure. 49 00:04:01,300 --> 00:04:01,820 Hey, can you see it? 50 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:09,040 And so, I think we're only pushing maybe two or three watts out of the transmitter into the amplifier. 51 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:12,520 And when I last tested it, it was like 40 watts out of the amplifier. 52 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:18,320 Now, the antenna that I have is a Diamond X50N in connector. 53 00:04:18,540 --> 00:04:22,360 And that's a 5.8 wave high gain antenna used for repeaters. 54 00:04:22,380 --> 00:04:23,520 And it's almost commercial grade. 55 00:04:23,660 --> 00:04:25,120 Very widely used in the amateur radio. 56 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:31,120 The other point I bring up and bring this up is the feed line and the antenna makes a huge difference. 57 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:39,140 Even if you have a crappy Chinese transmitter and a quality amplifier, if you're not using good patch cables and good feed line, you're going to get a lot of loss. 58 00:04:39,380 --> 00:04:46,260 And it will add up throughout all your cabling and through the antenna as it gets to the antenna and you won't get very good signals. 59 00:04:46,380 --> 00:04:53,780 So, this is one of the things that I've pushed and learned over the many years of doing amateur radio and engineering is to use quality equipment, quality connectors. 60 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:55,100 And it really helps. 61 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,160 It really makes a big difference on the actual end point. 62 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,340 So, the cabling is important and obviously the laptop. 63 00:05:01,580 --> 00:05:06,140 But that's kind of the simplest part was, well, maybe not the simplest because I needed help with it. 64 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:07,600 Because I'm not a big coder. 65 00:05:07,740 --> 00:05:16,580 But over the years, I think there's been every year a new generation of people who have sat down at my laptop and like refactor the code. 66 00:05:16,740 --> 00:05:19,660 And in fact, Mr. Chucks here wants to refactor the code. 67 00:05:19,780 --> 00:05:22,040 He's refactoring code extraordinaire. 68 00:05:22,180 --> 00:05:25,100 So, he's been begging me all week, saying, let me get on your laptop and rewrite it. 69 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:25,520 Let me rewrite the code. 70 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:29,320 So, I think Jay Falcon wrote it the first time. 71 00:05:29,460 --> 00:05:32,220 I fussed with it and then Far fussed with it and rewrote it. 72 00:05:32,340 --> 00:05:35,200 And then, I think that might be it. 73 00:05:35,300 --> 00:05:38,240 Maybe Jens from the CCC did a couple of iterations on it. 74 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:39,920 And so, it's kind of a group effort. 75 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,740 And it's a simple Python code that just communicates over serial. 76 00:05:43,900 --> 00:05:45,560 So, we'll get a little more into it. 77 00:05:45,840 --> 00:05:49,380 So, here's the POGSAC and FLEX transmitter. 78 00:05:49,540 --> 00:05:52,220 It will do FLEX, which is the more sophisticated protocol. 79 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:54,840 And we wanted to. 80 00:05:54,840 --> 00:05:58,720 Even though it could do a little bit better protocol and our watches can do the better 81 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:01,260 protocol, we wanted to keep it even more old school. 82 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:07,260 So, we continued with POGSAC, even though we could do FLEX, which does bigger payload, 83 00:06:07,540 --> 00:06:08,100 more data. 84 00:06:08,220 --> 00:06:08,840 You can push through it. 85 00:06:08,860 --> 00:06:12,980 You can do time sync and a bunch of other things, which is cool, but we wanted to keep 86 00:06:12,980 --> 00:06:13,760 it extra old school. 87 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:16,620 So, that's the transmitter is all it is. 88 00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:22,860 I found it on, I want to say, one of those sites like Alibaba or something like that 89 00:06:22,860 --> 00:06:23,420 or Banggood. 90 00:06:23,420 --> 00:06:25,680 There's one of those Chinese sites and we search and search and search. 91 00:06:25,940 --> 00:06:31,360 What they sell them for over there in excess all over the place is for like restaurant 92 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:32,680 pagers and stuff like that. 93 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:38,560 Those aren't really used much here in the US, but paging is still used all over for 94 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:40,340 many different industries. 95 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:42,740 And it's a huge information disclosure issue. 96 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:45,220 And I'm not going to repeat a lot of that. 97 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:47,660 I'm going to mostly talk about the hardware and our implementation of it. 98 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:53,260 If you want to cover all that, definitely see NYC Mike's talk from DEF CON 16. 99 00:06:53,420 --> 00:06:57,040 And he covers all the intimate details of decoding it and so on. 100 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,040 So, a lot of good information there, but I'm not going to dig too deep into that. 101 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:02,720 But also, Vlad Gostomelsky is here who can also help. 102 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:04,220 He works with me at Spirant. 103 00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:09,220 And if you want to get into decoding paging and need a little pointers, Mr. Gostomelsky 104 00:07:09,220 --> 00:07:09,840 can help with that. 105 00:07:09,900 --> 00:07:11,060 He's at Recompiler. 106 00:07:11,180 --> 00:07:12,240 So, he's right there. 107 00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:14,640 So, I appreciate his help too. 108 00:07:14,740 --> 00:07:19,300 So, this is a good piece that makes it all kind of happen. 109 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,700 Not only do you need a good feed line and a good antenna, but you need a good amplifier. 110 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:23,400 Obviously, you need a good amplifier. 111 00:07:23,420 --> 00:07:26,700 Obviously, we could turn up the power on the transmitter, but it's only capable maybe 112 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:29,620 five watts if the Chinese specs are right. 113 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,440 But we turn it down so it's not going to work so hard. 114 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,420 And we let this do all the work. 115 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,980 This is a high-quality amateur radio amplifier. 116 00:07:37,580 --> 00:07:41,580 And you can see it will do anything from 430 megahertz to 450 megahertz. 117 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,120 And as I mentioned before, 10 watts in and 100 watts out. 118 00:07:45,640 --> 00:07:51,860 It uses N connectors for UHF, microwave frequencies, and it has some other features in there that 119 00:07:51,860 --> 00:07:53,400 we don't use for amateur radio. 120 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:58,260 So, it's a high-quality amp, it doesn't have any spurious emissions and any issues like 121 00:07:58,260 --> 00:07:58,520 that. 122 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:02,040 And that's one of the things I was adamant about is when I was going to build this and 123 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,540 do this is that A, we could stay legal, and B, we weren't going to spam the bands with 124 00:08:06,540 --> 00:08:11,280 a bunch of spurious emissions and piss off local ham operators and whatnot and so on. 125 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:16,380 One thing I do, and I'll get into it a little bit, is I am members of the local ham clubs 126 00:08:16,380 --> 00:08:22,840 here in Las Vegas, and so I do a lot of research on frequency listening and making sure I'm 127 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,660 not going to stomp on other people's projects and other repeaters and so on. 128 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:32,180 So, we were adamant about choosing the right frequency, and fortunately, for the last five 129 00:08:32,180 --> 00:08:33,180 years, no one's complained. 130 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:37,700 Every year we come back, I always check in with my local ham buddies and see if anyone's 131 00:08:37,700 --> 00:08:41,920 complained or wanted to file a complaint or so on, because they could file a complaint 132 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,500 to the FCC if they were pissed, but no one has, thankfully. 133 00:08:45,660 --> 00:08:48,440 And I've been on a good frequency that no one seems to be using. 134 00:08:48,980 --> 00:08:52,400 One of the things that we do, and I'll get into it a little bit more, is that in the 135 00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,840 software, it does send a call sign, but it doesn't show up on the pager, because it doesn't 136 00:08:57,840 --> 00:08:58,780 send it with a cap code. 137 00:08:59,240 --> 00:09:01,960 So every 10 minutes, there is a call sign that's sent out for this time. 138 00:09:02,560 --> 00:09:07,760 It is N17, November 7, Tango, for TeleFreak, and this is one of the creators of TeleFreak, 139 00:09:07,780 --> 00:09:08,360 Champ, right here. 140 00:09:08,900 --> 00:09:10,980 So this year, it's an event call sign. 141 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,920 Previous years, it was other TeleFreaker's call signs, either myself or SleeveStack's 142 00:09:15,920 --> 00:09:18,260 call sign, or who was the other one? 143 00:09:18,860 --> 00:09:19,260 Nerds. 144 00:09:19,260 --> 00:09:19,460 Nerds, yeah. 145 00:09:19,580 --> 00:09:20,140 What was it? 146 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:21,160 N3RDS? 147 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:22,500 Yeah. 148 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:27,740 So we've used different call signs all legally, but this year, I saw that it was very easy 149 00:09:27,740 --> 00:09:33,440 to get a one-by-one event call sign coordinated with the ARRL, and I got that this year. 150 00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:37,340 They approved it within the same day or the next day, and so I was pretty excited about 151 00:09:37,340 --> 00:09:37,960 that, to have that. 152 00:09:38,180 --> 00:09:41,460 So this is the big piece of it, is to have a good amplifier. 153 00:09:42,040 --> 00:09:44,120 Obviously, you don't need to drive it too hard. 154 00:09:44,540 --> 00:09:48,980 When it's paging really hard, when people are hammering it, the amp does get a little 155 00:09:48,980 --> 00:09:49,440 bit warm. 156 00:09:49,620 --> 00:09:51,960 But compared to some of the other amateur radio stuff. 157 00:09:52,540 --> 00:09:57,200 It's more like lukewarm, where some of my other equipment, for example, the UHF 70 158 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:01,040 centimeter repeater, it can essentially get up to like lava hot. 159 00:10:01,300 --> 00:10:04,460 This only gets up to like lukewarm, because we're not working it too hard. 160 00:10:05,100 --> 00:10:08,940 One of the interesting things is that we do link it to Twitter and a couple other things, 161 00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:12,620 but Twitter has 140 characters, POCSAC only allows 90 characters. 162 00:10:12,900 --> 00:10:14,900 So most tweets come out in like three pages. 163 00:10:15,220 --> 00:10:19,060 So it's not really efficient, but we're cramming new technology into old technology, but it 164 00:10:19,060 --> 00:10:19,480 works. 165 00:10:20,700 --> 00:10:24,160 So as I mentioned, the feed line, and I'm not going to get too deep into it, but it's 166 00:10:24,160 --> 00:10:25,740 very important to get good feed line. 167 00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:28,640 LMR 900, don't use RG58. 168 00:10:29,060 --> 00:10:31,600 You need good shielding, good connectors on the end. 169 00:10:31,820 --> 00:10:34,160 And when you get an adapter, you need a good adapter. 170 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:38,380 So I, to get into the Chinese transmitter, it's BNC. 171 00:10:38,540 --> 00:10:43,220 So I adapt N to BNC, and I made sure those are all gold connectors and so on. 172 00:10:43,300 --> 00:10:44,440 So that's an important piece. 173 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:45,600 It makes a huge difference. 174 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,460 You lose approximately half a dB per channel. 175 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:49,740 That's a good connection. 176 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:55,800 So one connection, two connections, and then the other connections on the back of the amp, 177 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:57,500 I mean, you're losing a couple of dB through that. 178 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:02,680 So you want to minimize that loss so you get as much power to the antenna, which does 179 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:06,180 some amplification naturally, and it makes a huge difference. 180 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,320 I've built a lot of amateur radio systems, I've done a lot of engineering with that, 181 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:15,100 and I've gone where I've used the cheap connectors, I've used the cheap coax, and it works. 182 00:11:15,180 --> 00:11:18,760 But then when I update it with new stuff, it works like 40% better. 183 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,760 With the same amount of wattage and so on. 184 00:11:20,860 --> 00:11:24,660 So antenna makes a big difference, and the feed line makes a big difference. 185 00:11:26,140 --> 00:11:30,500 So for the cabling and whatnot, it's just serial into the back of the Chinese transmitter, 186 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,820 but if you notice back in one of the other slides, it does have RJ45, it will talk network, 187 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:37,380 but it only does telnet. 188 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:42,880 The web interface, it was so atrocious, I saw it once and I never looked at it again. 189 00:11:43,060 --> 00:11:43,740 Never tried. 190 00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:48,740 Jay Falcon looked at a couple of the other interfaces that the transmitter uses. 191 00:11:48,740 --> 00:11:51,460 The Chinese transmitter had, but we decided just to maintain old school and just keep 192 00:11:51,460 --> 00:11:54,040 it serial, super simple, and it works really well. 193 00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:59,600 When I get into the other talk, I'll talk a little bit more about the importance of 194 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:00,500 the serial interface. 195 00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:06,820 So this is just a normal USB to serial interface, but it's one with a more sophisticated driver 196 00:12:06,820 --> 00:12:12,180 so that you can tweak the latency, the buffers, the speed at which it'll communicate serial. 197 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,820 The Chinese transmitter doesn't like anything over 9600 baud. 198 00:12:16,980 --> 00:12:18,720 And not even 9600 baud. 199 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:19,080 Fast. 200 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,440 Like if you try to go exactly 9, it'll skip characters, it'll drop out. 201 00:12:23,540 --> 00:12:27,640 So I slow it down a little bit just to keep it happy, and mostly for this kind of stuff. 202 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,000 So that's an important piece. 203 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,680 Fortunately I've had this thing forever, and I only have one, and I've been trying 204 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:35,260 to find another one that has that special driver, and I haven't had any luck. 205 00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:37,180 But it's an important piece there. 206 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:42,860 So I run it off a virtual machine, and as you guys know, I am the rodent, so you'll 207 00:12:42,860 --> 00:12:43,880 see some of this stuff in there. 208 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:48,240 So it just runs off a virtual machine off of Ubuntu. 209 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,940 I think it's five years old. 210 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:52,840 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. 211 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,020 And it never touches the internet, really. 212 00:12:55,260 --> 00:12:58,080 So well, one way with the reverse tunnel. 213 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:04,120 So it just runs on a virtual machine with a virtual serial adapter, and that's how it 214 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,160 communicates to the transmitter. 215 00:13:05,420 --> 00:13:08,920 And also shout out to 2600 and to the Telefreak badge crew. 216 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:11,400 As you can see, this is our badge this year. 217 00:13:12,620 --> 00:13:16,440 So that's an important piece because if there's no data to push into the transmitter, it's 218 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:17,240 obviously not going to work. 219 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:18,460 But it's very simple. 220 00:13:18,540 --> 00:13:19,920 We tried to keep it as simple as possible. 221 00:13:20,020 --> 00:13:24,540 It just runs with a simple set of Python scripts that just dump the data to serial, and the 222 00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:27,180 transmitter just accepts anything you throw at it over serial. 223 00:13:27,380 --> 00:13:33,040 So like I said, it does send a call sign every 10 minutes, and then it does send cap 224 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:35,680 codes for different types of messages and so on. 225 00:13:36,140 --> 00:13:39,700 Vlad had asked me to do some special cap codes, but unfortunately I didn't have time 226 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:40,180 to do it. 227 00:13:40,260 --> 00:13:41,880 But we might be able to do that a little bit later. 228 00:13:42,300 --> 00:13:45,540 But the cap codes are important for the POCSAC decoding. 229 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:47,220 And you can get more info on that. 230 00:13:48,540 --> 00:13:51,660 So this is what it looks like when it's all put together. 231 00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:54,760 It's not super fancy, but you need a good power supply. 232 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:57,720 And obviously there's the amp in operation and there's the transmitter. 233 00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,380 And then it's just serial to the laptop. 234 00:14:00,060 --> 00:14:02,540 So this is a good switching power supply. 235 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:06,220 So there's no spurious noise off of that, no AC hum, stuff like that. 236 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:12,240 That can affect not only the RF transmission, even though it's digital, but it can affect 237 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,380 noise getting into other things. 238 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:16,720 The serial and all that is important. 239 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,840 So for overall reliability of your system, you want to make sure that all these different 240 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:22,340 components are of higher quality. 241 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:26,840 If you can, go commercial grade, but amateur radio grade is effective enough. 242 00:14:27,060 --> 00:14:30,500 So that's an important piece, is to have a good power supply to make it all work. 243 00:14:30,940 --> 00:14:35,880 And I like to have things mobile, transportable, and be able to use multiple power interfaces 244 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:36,440 or types. 245 00:14:36,820 --> 00:14:41,200 So I try to run everything all 12-volt, because it's easy to get 12-volt off of batteries 246 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,500 and to convert that and so on. 247 00:14:42,580 --> 00:14:45,080 So that's what it looks like when it's all working. 248 00:14:45,820 --> 00:14:46,700 I took that out. 249 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,480 I took this picture this morning. 250 00:14:47,740 --> 00:14:49,240 I rebuilt it all last night. 251 00:14:49,340 --> 00:14:52,440 There was a little bit of interference or jamming or something like that, but that seemed to 252 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:56,680 go away, and I wanted to deconstruct it and rebuild it all back again, the repeater and 253 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:00,380 the transmitter for the POG sac, and it's all working good now. 254 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:05,840 So the legalities around amateur radio is not that difficult. 255 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,660 To get into amateur radio, you can learn a lot. 256 00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:13,980 To get a simple technician's license, it's only 36 questions, multiple choice, and you 257 00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:15,580 only need to answer 27 of them correct. 258 00:15:15,580 --> 00:15:22,900 So the entry level to get into it is very easy, and it's $13 for 10 years, and it gives 259 00:15:22,900 --> 00:15:28,380 you federally licensed ability to experiment and to do all these cool things on the amateur 260 00:15:28,380 --> 00:15:28,620 band. 261 00:15:28,740 --> 00:15:33,340 So I encourage people, if you want to transmit POG sac, get a ham license and don't stomp 262 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:33,860 on those bands. 263 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:34,620 I request that. 264 00:15:34,660 --> 00:15:35,660 The FCC requests that. 265 00:15:35,780 --> 00:15:38,940 But it's also just gentleman's agreement or just being polite with your neighbors and 266 00:15:38,940 --> 00:15:40,560 stuff like that, and that matters. 267 00:15:40,860 --> 00:15:45,080 We all have to cohabitate in the RF spectrums, whether it's cell phones or Bluetooth or whatever, 268 00:15:45,580 --> 00:15:48,740 but in particular with amateur radio, there's an important piece to that. 269 00:15:49,060 --> 00:15:53,740 Now talking with other old school ham radio operators, I've had them argue that it's illegal, 270 00:15:53,980 --> 00:15:54,800 that you can't do it. 271 00:15:55,000 --> 00:16:00,460 And so the two bullets in part 97 FCC that I pull out is beaconing, which is used all 272 00:16:00,460 --> 00:16:05,420 over the place for propagation testing and stuff like that, and then also broadcasting 273 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:06,360 transmissions. 274 00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:13,100 It used to be that you could only broadcast to everyone if it was like the space shuttle 275 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,340 or QST from the ARRL. 276 00:16:15,420 --> 00:16:15,560 But now it's all broadcast. 277 00:16:15,580 --> 00:16:16,520 It's all stuff like that. 278 00:16:16,660 --> 00:16:20,040 So they've since modified the wording a little bit since we don't fly the shuttle, unfortunately. 279 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,740 But you can't broadcast with intended reception by the general public, indirect or relayed. 280 00:16:25,820 --> 00:16:31,200 So there's other bullets that do fall under this type of transmission, but these are the 281 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:33,920 ones that I think follow what we're doing best. 282 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:35,240 And so it is legal. 283 00:16:35,740 --> 00:16:40,220 It's very easy to be legal, and I ask you to do that. 284 00:16:40,380 --> 00:16:44,140 So one of the pieces that works, and I mentioned it before, is coordination. 285 00:16:44,140 --> 00:16:48,300 To know your local ham operators that you're going to be sharing those frequencies with 286 00:16:48,300 --> 00:16:52,060 potentially, to know your local ham clubs and whatnot, get friendly with them. 287 00:16:52,740 --> 00:16:57,900 The last ham club I joined in Washington, D.C. was $25 for five years. 288 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,660 So I mean, it's not really hard to get in with those guys. 289 00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,180 I went to their amateur field day. 290 00:17:04,260 --> 00:17:08,820 I brought my repeater out, and you can learn a lot from these guys and share information, 291 00:17:09,060 --> 00:17:10,400 and they'll kind of look out for you as well. 292 00:17:10,540 --> 00:17:13,720 So if you're using a frequency or doing something wrong, they'll give you some help. 293 00:17:13,780 --> 00:17:14,120 They'll give you some help. 294 00:17:14,120 --> 00:17:14,580 They'll give you some advice. 295 00:17:15,500 --> 00:17:19,900 Just yesterday, Drew brought another friend of ours, and he's an amateur extra, the highest 296 00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:22,600 class you can get, and he's helped me diagnose some of that stuff. 297 00:17:22,860 --> 00:17:25,840 And we're all on the same page, but it's nice to be able to bounce stuff off other 298 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:30,620 hams and other tech-savvy people to either validate what you're thinking or to invalidate 299 00:17:30,620 --> 00:17:32,700 it and say, no, you don't know what you're thinking, it's something else. 300 00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:35,760 So it was nice to be able to talk with other hams, and it really works well. 301 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:42,060 Research, one of the things I did is just to Google my face off to find what other people 302 00:17:42,060 --> 00:17:44,100 are using on frequencies and these types of transmissions. 303 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:46,220 And that's a big effort of it. 304 00:17:46,340 --> 00:17:48,380 And then also just listening and observation. 305 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,340 Before I get on a frequency and start stomping on it and using it, I'll listen for days or 306 00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:56,960 weeks at a time to see if anyone else pops up on that frequency and uses it. 307 00:17:57,100 --> 00:17:58,840 So you want to share it and be polite about it. 308 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:03,380 POGSAC, the transmissions are very intermittent, so it comes and goes, so you're not necessarily 309 00:18:03,380 --> 00:18:04,640 transmitting all the time. 310 00:18:06,260 --> 00:18:09,700 So it's kind of hard to determine if you're messing with someone or not. 311 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,080 So one of the things I did before we started transmitting here in Vegas was ask questions. 312 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,820 Ask local hams, ask the local clubs I was a part of, and then I just listened to the 313 00:18:17,820 --> 00:18:23,640 frequency that we used, 433 megahertz, 500 kilohertz, 433.500, and I listened to that 314 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:27,840 for weeks remotely over the internet and then while I was here on site before we started 315 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,360 transmitting. 316 00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:32,440 And even when I came back five years later this time, before I started transmitting, 317 00:18:32,580 --> 00:18:36,080 I turned on all my radios and I listened to that frequency for hours to make sure that 318 00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:37,820 no one is using it while I was gone. 319 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,280 So it is coordinated in that sense, but it's not necessarily official, like a permanent 320 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:48,080 repeater pair that gets coordinated with local clubs and with the ARRL and so on. 321 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,840 So observation is a big deal. 322 00:18:50,220 --> 00:18:53,880 If you've done your research and your observation and you still can't feel comfortable with 323 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,800 it, always fall back on your band plans. 324 00:18:56,000 --> 00:19:01,040 ARRL does publish all the plans for different frequency spectrums, and they do also have 325 00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:03,440 slices in some of these spectrums for experimentation. 326 00:19:03,980 --> 00:19:09,260 So if you're doing something that's polite and neighborly, but you isn't necessarily 327 00:19:09,260 --> 00:19:13,040 part 97 compliant, you're doing experimentation, you are allowed to do that. 328 00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:17,180 And that's one of the cool things that I got in the amateur radios because like years 329 00:19:17,180 --> 00:19:21,860 ago before we even had the TSA, I would carry my ham radios on planes and stuff, and they 330 00:19:21,860 --> 00:19:22,800 would harass me. 331 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:23,920 I would show them my FCC license. 332 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,000 No, I'm federally licensed. 333 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,520 Like I can carry this. 334 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:27,680 I can use this. 335 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:29,080 And they don't know what to say. 336 00:19:30,780 --> 00:19:32,280 Don't transmit when you're on a plane. 337 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:34,200 Trust me. 338 00:19:34,260 --> 00:19:34,760 You don't want to do that. 339 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:39,200 Legally, if you have the permission of the captain of the flight, you can transmit. 340 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:40,720 I've gotten that permission before. 341 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:42,960 And I was able to talk on a repeat. 342 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,340 I had a computer network from like 250 miles away from Sacramento. 343 00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:48,900 That was the best I ever did on VHF. 344 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,280 But I had the permission of the captain. 345 00:19:52,060 --> 00:19:54,880 Since then, many years ago, I think they've kind of tweaked the rules. 346 00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:57,980 But I think the captain has the ultimate say on that. 347 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:03,140 So definitely utilize your clubs and peers that you're sharing the spectrums with. 348 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:04,280 That's an important piece. 349 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:06,720 So let me see what else I got here. 350 00:20:08,020 --> 00:20:09,020 That's towards the end of it. 351 00:20:09,140 --> 00:20:11,880 But you can always find us on rc.2600net. 352 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,840 All the TeleFreakers and us hams and hackers are in poundtelefreak. 353 00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:16,680 You can chat with us. 354 00:20:16,780 --> 00:20:19,260 And you can follow my Twitter, Andrew underscore strut. 355 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:22,860 And this is basically what I look like when I'm working. 356 00:20:26,700 --> 00:20:29,260 I think that's 25 minutes is what I had. 357 00:20:29,420 --> 00:20:32,540 So if anyone has any questions, I'm happy to answer any. 358 00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:35,180 And we'll start with Miss Lindsey here. 359 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:40,300 The question is, when am I going to get an extra license? 360 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:41,860 And actually, I've been studying. 361 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,200 For the general, I'm big on baby steps. 362 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,280 So I'm pretty confident with the general. 363 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:48,880 I've had a tech plus for like ever. 364 00:20:49,220 --> 00:20:54,740 So I do want to upgrade to general because that gives you more bands that you can use. 365 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,820 I think higher power transmission and certain bands and so on. 366 00:20:58,220 --> 00:21:01,720 And a little more credibility with my fellow peers who are ham operators as well. 367 00:21:01,860 --> 00:21:03,320 So good question. 368 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:04,320 I'm working on it. 369 00:21:04,340 --> 00:21:05,040 But baby steps. 370 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,220 I'm not going to jump up to extra. 371 00:21:06,740 --> 00:21:08,000 I'll get the general first. 372 00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,400 So thank you. 373 00:21:09,500 --> 00:21:09,840 Thank you. 374 00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:11,280 B, what's your question? 375 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:12,440 What's the range? 376 00:21:12,700 --> 00:21:15,000 And tell me about the source code methodology. 377 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:16,640 Okay. 378 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,960 So the question is range and source code methodology or naming convention. 379 00:21:22,380 --> 00:21:22,540 Yeah. 380 00:21:22,540 --> 00:21:22,800 Okay. 381 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:29,660 So the best range that we ever reported was Sleestack drove, was like driving home or 382 00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:29,860 somewhere. 383 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,640 And he was all the way out by state line past Gene, got to the California state border. 384 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,920 And before he got over the hill, he was still getting pages. 385 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:38,680 So that was well over 50 miles. 386 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,560 Fortunately that year, I had a nice suite. 387 00:21:41,560 --> 00:21:45,220 And it had windows like three quarters of around my room. 388 00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:49,720 And so I had the antenna like with half the view down the strip and half the view down 389 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,040 to the southwest to California. 390 00:21:51,380 --> 00:21:52,580 And so it really depends. 391 00:21:52,740 --> 00:21:57,620 The propagation really is affected by antenna placement and which hotel suite I get. 392 00:21:57,820 --> 00:22:03,420 So that's been the best recorded range that was verifiable was from Sleestack over state 393 00:22:03,420 --> 00:22:04,400 line over 50 miles. 394 00:22:04,980 --> 00:22:10,200 But it definitely saturates the casino or the immediate quarter mile. 395 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,980 Yeah, the range is quite good. 396 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:20,180 Now the follow up question that he had was about our highly complex source code naming 397 00:22:20,180 --> 00:22:20,560 convention. 398 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,160 And like I said, we've been doing this for five years. 399 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:25,960 There's been several iterations of the software. 400 00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:30,020 And so the naming convention I think we're on now is test four. 401 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,300 And once it works, it works. 402 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,240 So I haven't like pushed it to GitHub or anything like that. 403 00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:38,020 But I might do that. 404 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:39,080 But it's very simple stuff. 405 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,480 You're just dumping the raw data to the serial port. 406 00:22:42,500 --> 00:22:45,980 Tux could tell you there's like a half a million different ways you can do that with Python. 407 00:22:46,220 --> 00:22:48,420 And he'll probably do it a quarter of a million different ways. 408 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:51,040 But we do keep it simple. 409 00:22:51,340 --> 00:22:57,460 And once it's working, we're not going to beat ourselves up over it and make a name 410 00:22:57,460 --> 00:22:59,080 for it, copyright it, trademark it. 411 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:00,220 We tested and tested. 412 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:02,320 And like the third or fourth time, it worked. 413 00:23:03,740 --> 00:23:05,200 And remember what it's called. 414 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,980 Because sometimes I just suspend the VM until next year. 415 00:23:08,980 --> 00:23:10,620 And I open it up. 416 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:11,840 And I'm looking at the scripts. 417 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,640 And I'm like, God, when was the last one we used? 418 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:14,440 Look at the history. 419 00:23:14,840 --> 00:23:16,700 We used this one, this one, this one, this one, this one. 420 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:19,380 But we had to go by date this time. 421 00:23:19,500 --> 00:23:20,420 So I looked at the date. 422 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,120 It's 2016, August. 423 00:23:22,180 --> 00:23:24,780 And we were able to find which script we used last time. 424 00:23:26,620 --> 00:23:29,000 So that's the majority of it. 425 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,200 It's the implementation of what makes it all happen and whatnot. 426 00:23:31,460 --> 00:23:34,240 And we can get more into decoding Pogsack and whatnot. 427 00:23:34,380 --> 00:23:35,540 Because we're certainly spamming that ban. 428 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,840 There's a lot of information, a lot of RF going out there. 429 00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:38,960 And we're certainly spamming that ban. 430 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,060 And you can decode it. 431 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:40,820 It's cool stuff. 432 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:42,640 Tuck, do you have a question? 433 00:23:42,940 --> 00:23:46,080 What does the TSA have to say about you dragging all of your equipment on the plane? 434 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,400 What does the TSA say about me dragging my equipment on the planes? 435 00:23:50,460 --> 00:23:53,220 Well, nothing very pleasant. 436 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:55,680 They have a lot of questions. 437 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:58,820 I use my FCC license pretty heavily. 438 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,780 I use my government ID pretty heavily to, obviously, I'm not just some schmuck with 439 00:24:03,780 --> 00:24:07,160 a bunch of gears going to try to take apart the plane while I'm flying with tools and 440 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:07,460 so on. 441 00:24:07,460 --> 00:24:14,000 But this year, I actually paid the oversize fee and packed it all in one big, giant box. 442 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:15,780 So I carry my handhelds. 443 00:24:15,780 --> 00:24:17,120 I carry some tools with me and so on. 444 00:24:17,300 --> 00:24:21,740 But this repeater and the other stuff, I didn't have it on my carry-on. 445 00:24:21,820 --> 00:24:23,120 So TSA didn't say too much. 446 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:28,500 But I did have them pre-inspect it before they accepted it to go down. 447 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:33,080 And so I stood there as he opened up the box and went, holy Christ, what is this? 448 00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:33,900 FCC license. 449 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:34,880 You know? 450 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:35,440 So. 451 00:24:37,460 --> 00:24:38,360 And he's like, OK. 452 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,960 And he, what is this? 453 00:24:40,140 --> 00:24:41,140 FCC license. 454 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:41,620 You know? 455 00:24:41,900 --> 00:24:43,320 So it's effective. 456 00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,620 And I just told them I'm an amateur radio operator. 457 00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:47,080 And this is my equipment. 458 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:48,100 And they don't know. 459 00:24:48,580 --> 00:24:49,400 And it's not illegal. 460 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:50,600 It's just they have questions. 461 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:52,580 And they'll have to swipe it down and all that stuff. 462 00:24:54,260 --> 00:24:58,040 But they do always ask about my handhelds and why I have that on the plane and so on. 463 00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:02,480 And one of the things that Vlad and I do is ARIES, Amateur Radio Emergency Service. 464 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,920 And, you know, all of our other comms aren't always going to be there. 465 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:07,440 And so you have to fall back on that. 466 00:25:12,380 --> 00:25:24,440 So you have to go to ARIES and see what they tell you. 467 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:25,560 And then I'm going to send you a form for you to look through it and tell you about 468 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:25,600 And you know, I don't know. 469 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:25,960 But if you're going to work with them and that's a really good service, you can do 470 00:25:26,100 --> 00:25:28,740 You just made it small. 471 00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:32,460 Like, the video, you just make it big. 472 00:25:33,780 --> 00:25:34,800 We're excited. 473 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:37,440 We'll do a video about your program. 474 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,840 Yes, you can. 475 00:25:44,020 --> 00:25:47,700 The question is, can you do things like APRS messaging 476 00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:48,660 through POGSAC? 477 00:25:48,860 --> 00:25:52,740 For example, Flex has more features within that protocol, 478 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,020 not necessarily location stuff, but I'll get into, 479 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,180 I have another piece that does do APRS 480 00:25:58,180 --> 00:26:01,240 and location-based stuff, but the protocol was, 481 00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:03,220 this was like 30, 40 years ago. 482 00:26:03,780 --> 00:26:05,840 Now, the other piece I'll remind you 483 00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:06,860 is the information disclosure. 484 00:26:06,860 --> 00:26:09,080 If you start decoding the stuff out there, 485 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:10,860 you'll find stuff from telecommunications, 486 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,260 aviation, medical, and all kinds of stuff 487 00:26:15,260 --> 00:26:16,560 that's out there to decode. 488 00:26:16,980 --> 00:26:18,920 Decode it legally, do it ethically, 489 00:26:19,180 --> 00:26:21,960 don't propagate that information unintentionally. 490 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,500 But my favorite one was watching pages 491 00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:26,660 to central office technicians, 492 00:26:26,940 --> 00:26:29,100 where they get the address of the central office, 493 00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,980 the door code, and what they're supposed to do 494 00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:33,780 at the central office. 495 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,560 So with that page, you know, 496 00:26:36,860 --> 00:26:37,000 yeah. 497 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,440 So there's another question. 498 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:50,740 So the question is regarding formalities or proper etiquette 499 00:26:50,740 --> 00:26:52,340 if you're going to transmit on POGSAC 500 00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:53,800 or use the hashtags and whatnot. 501 00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,980 Obviously, some rules apply because it does go 502 00:26:56,980 --> 00:26:59,180 from Twitter to amateur radio. 503 00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,220 I think the only major stipulation that is an issue 504 00:27:02,220 --> 00:27:04,820 for me is cursing, unfortunately. 505 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:05,900 It's not censorship. 506 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:06,840 It's just, you know, 507 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:08,380 you don't have to be a dick all the time. 508 00:27:08,460 --> 00:27:09,360 So you don't have to curse. 509 00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:12,700 But that's, I think, the only thing 510 00:27:12,700 --> 00:27:16,740 that is really an issue is just that sort of thing. 511 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,360 So that's the question. 512 00:27:22,780 --> 00:27:24,520 I've actually been looking at it this time. 513 00:27:25,060 --> 00:27:27,600 Four previous years, we never had a problem with it. 514 00:27:27,660 --> 00:27:29,940 This year, there's something different. 515 00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:30,840 So. 516 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,800 Sorry. The question was, are we doing any, 517 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,000 anything to filter the content that we don't like? 518 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,040 So we try not to. 519 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,340 It's usually not an issue. 520 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:46,880 I think I only noticed it a couple times 521 00:27:46,880 --> 00:27:48,120 in the previous years. 522 00:27:48,380 --> 00:27:50,420 But for some reason this year, I guess people curse more. 523 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,040 They're talking to me more and I curse a lot. 524 00:27:52,260 --> 00:27:55,780 So, not on ham, but, so yeah, great question though. 525 00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:57,640 And we'll look at that more as we advance the code 526 00:27:57,640 --> 00:27:58,240 over the years. 527 00:27:58,460 --> 00:28:00,940 Every year, there's a new reiteration, a new refactoring. 528 00:28:02,580 --> 00:28:05,080 There'll be a test five Python script for next year. 529 00:28:05,080 --> 00:28:08,940 And so on, so, but that's a good question. 530 00:28:09,020 --> 00:28:09,800 And we'll look into that. 531 00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:12,100 Especially, I want to stay as compliant as possible. 532 00:28:12,660 --> 00:28:13,600 It's certainly an issue. 533 00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:16,080 And I was thinking about it that long 534 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:17,100 and hard the last couple of days. 535 00:28:17,260 --> 00:28:19,080 Because right out the gate, I started noticing it. 536 00:28:19,120 --> 00:28:19,640 And I was like, ah. 537 00:28:20,780 --> 00:28:22,020 So, any other questions? 538 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,280 Great. Thank you very much. 539 00:28:26,300 --> 00:28:26,900 Great questions. 540 00:28:26,980 --> 00:28:27,740 Thank you for listening. 541 00:28:27,980 --> 00:28:28,940 Really appreciate it.