start	end	text
13720	18340	Hey AppSecVillage, welcome back. I hope you're having a great time at DEF CON 2020
18340	21620	and you're enjoying the speakers that we have in the village.
21840	26480	This next topic is one I think is really, really very important
26480	28980	and something we don't talk about often enough.
28980	33020	It is entitled, The Elephant in the Room, Burnout.
33200	36980	I've been in IT for over 30 years, and in that time I've seen burnout
36980	40620	in colleagues, in friends, and sometimes even in myself.
40620	45360	It's an important topic, and we're going to hear from Chloe Mostagi,
45360	48520	who is the VP of Strategy at Point3 Security.
48640	52540	She's an ethical hacker advocate who strongly believes that information security
52540	55000	is a humanitarian issue.
55240	59840	Besides her passion to keep people safe and empowered, both online and offline,
59840	61920	she is driven to fight for hacker rights.
62100	65380	She is the founder of WeAreHackers, formerly known as WomenHackers,
65380	68420	and the president and co-founder of the Women of Security,
68580	72120	a podcast for ITSP magazine's The Uncommon Journey,
72120	74320	and runs the Hacker Book Club.
74440	77900	Please welcome Chloe to the AppSecVillage stage.
78720	83780	Hi everyone, my name is Chloe Mostagi, and I'm so excited to share a talk with you
83780	87180	around burnout for AppSecVillage.
87180	91900	Now, before we begin, I know that this might be kind of emotional for some of you,
91900	99100	so if you do, please do this one practice, which is six breaths in one minute.
99100	103020	So, breathe in through your nose, exhale through your mouth,
103020	109140	and do that six times within the minute if you're feeling like it's a little too much at times.
109260	112320	So, let's begin. I'm looking forward to this talk.
112320	115200	Let me just share my screen with you. One second.
119540	127020	Okay, so we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, burnout.
127020	130760	Which, it really is an elephant in the room, because most of the time,
130760	135080	we never really hear about burnout when we're in our office.
135080	138240	We tend to hear it outside of our office.
138280	143160	And when it comes to mental health, it isn't something that most companies practice.
143480	148140	And so, this pandemic, though, has been able to bring it more forward.
148140	153720	So, this talk is going to cover about burnout, what you can do yourself,
153720	159380	and if you are an employer, manager, I also will give you some tips as well.
159620	161520	So, let's dive into this.
161520	163980	For those that don't know who I am, my name is Chloe Mastaggi.
164020	167800	I'm the VP of Strategy at Point3 Security.
167800	170560	I'm an ethical hacker advocate as well.
170720	173280	You're wondering, what is that exactly?
173280	176580	Basically, I look around the community and I listen to what people say
176580	180120	about how things can be improved for hackers,
180120	182820	and making sure that they have rights is one of them,
182820	188840	but also making sure that all voices are being represented and seen equally at the table.
188840	192720	Well, let's just pretend an InfoSec table of them all.
193020	196180	I'm also the president and co-founder of WOSEC, which is Women of Security.
196180	203140	We have chapters all over the world for women and also for non-binary as well.
203560	205000	I'm also the founder of WeAreHackers,
205000	207520	which is formerly known as Women Hackers.
207520	212040	We are a private virtual community for, basically,
212040	214360	underrepresented genders who hack at all levels.
214360	217160	We do workshops, we do events and activities,
217160	219140	but it's a good community to be part of.
219140	223160	So then, you know, if you ever need support, you want to know the latest trends and tools,
223160	225800	hey, guess what? We have a cool platform for you to join.
226100	229020	And yes, WeAreHackers from WOSEC is completely free.
229020	230440	You'll never have to pay anything.
230940	233400	I'm also the Hacker Book Club organizer.
233400	237520	So basically, we meet every week on Tuesday at 5 p.m.
237520	239140	Pacific time, that is.
239140	242740	And we read a book, basically, that is about the hacker community
242740	246220	or is written by someone from the hacker community.
246220	248380	So every month we start a new book.
248580	253380	And I think the upcoming one is Tribe of Hackers, the Red Team Edition.
253380	254920	So very excited.
254940	257600	And yes, authors do attend our meetings.
257600	260580	And also, those that are mentioned in the book.
261260	267380	I'm also a podcaster for ITSP magazines, The Uncommon Journey with Alyssa Miller
267380	269440	and also with Phil Wiley.
269740	271420	And yes, that is my URL.
271420	274200	So if you want to learn more about me, it's right there.
274200	277320	And also, my Twitter and Instagram, my DMs are always open.
277320	281560	So feel free to ask me anything or just if you want to get to know me,
281560	283320	that's the best place to start.
283440	285780	So let's dive into the things that actually matter.
286580	292380	So I'm going to give you some scenarios to know whether or not that you're dealing with burnout yourself.
292720	298980	So first things first, I want you to imagine you're driving in your car.
299300	304840	And while you're driving in your car, you need to merge to the other lane.
305460	308220	And by merging to the other lane, let's say the left lane.
308220	311520	Now when you're thinking about merging to the other lane,
311520	318440	something comes over you where you're like, well, what if I don't look in my mirror when I make my merge?
318520	324360	Maybe I'll get an accident, which is great because that means I don't have to do this task, this assignment.
324360	328680	I don't have to go to work. I have a valid excuse for everything.
328680	333620	And then I could get a break finally from all the stuff that I'm drowning in.
334440	339860	This is a sign of burnout when it gets really bad.
341200	346860	Another example of how some people tend to notice that they're dealing with burnout is with their emails.
347100	350560	For example, it used to take you like a couple of minutes to respond to an email.
350560	355760	Now it takes you 10 minutes, maybe an hour, maybe a couple hours, maybe a day or two.
356000	364820	And then next thing you know, your inbox is just flooded and you don't know what to do because it's just so many emails and it's overwhelming you.
366700	377260	Or another example is, for example, declining phone calls from your friends and families and maybe your colleagues or not respond to their text messages in time.
377380	382360	It might not be because you're busy. It's just because you see them as a task.
382360	388700	You see them as something you have to do another thing on top of everything else that you're doing.
388700	399900	And so you start seeing people that are your friends, your family, your loved ones as kind of like a responsibility and a task.
399900	402960	And it puts a lot of extra weight on you.
403740	406380	That's one of the other signs of burnout.
408180	414500	But for many people, when they're burned out, their emotions can be pretty all over the place.
414500	420720	And what I mean by that is like you can suddenly get really angry and really sad and you really don't know why.
420720	426360	But you just feel like your emotions are kind of up in the air and it's very hard to control them sometimes.
426360	431440	Or you just you start noticing like you're just feeling bothered a lot easier.
432060	436920	And one of the things to know about burnout is the sense of feeling of being trapped.
436920	440180	You feel trapped. You might feel empty.
440180	444920	You just feel like no matter what you do, it's just overwhelming.
447860	449060	Due date.
449320	451880	So let's dive into this.
451880	455080	We all kind of procrastinate. I'll be real with you.
455080	456920	I procrastinate too.
456920	459380	When I'm like, this is not a big thing.
459380	461860	I don't have the energy nor the time to do this yet.
461860	463860	I'm going to wait till the last minute to get it done.
463860	468400	And then you get into this like certain flow and then you're like, okay, I got this.
468400	472300	Well, let me tell you about burnout procrastination.
472300	474240	It's a little bit more different than that.
474240	479240	It means that you basically you're so overwhelmed that you really can't hit your deadlines.
479460	483700	And it's not because you feel like you have too many tasks assigned to you.
483700	489120	Sometimes it's just this feeling of being stuck and overwhelmed that you can't even focus on anything.
489380	494520	And so because you've lost this ability to focus, you keep procrastinating.
494520	498240	And sometimes you'll push out deadlines just because of it.
500160	505700	But as we all know, burnout gives this feeling of fatigue or exhaustion.
505700	509800	No matter how many hours of sleep that you get, it's just never enough.
509800	514300	And this could be like nine or ten hours and it's just never enough.
514420	517460	You just feel so, so tired.
518300	523700	And you get kind of, sometimes people get foggy in a sense in their mind.
523700	526320	So it's very hard for them to focus on other things.
527460	533200	But the one thing to note is that when you're burned out, you just feel like, I just can't do this.
534120	540100	If someone hands you another task, you're like, oh my God, I really can't handle this.
540260	546160	I just can't. I can't do this. I'm not responding to that. I just can't do this.
546160	553460	Which is a normal response when you're overwhelmed, especially with the world how we're in in 2020.
553460	558120	It's like the most surreal year many of us have ever experienced.
558240	564480	And so, yeah, we're going to be disorganized in our head because there's a lot of emotional stuff happening.
564880	567620	And so burnout is not always about work.
567620	575780	It could also be emotional burnout from what's happening in your life and not being able to feel like a sense of able to breathe.
575780	579600	You just feel stuck and you don't know how to handle it.
579780	583280	And it's overwhelming. I mean, we're all working from home.
583280	591620	We're not able to go to bars and meet friends or go out for dinners or, you know, some people even have to cancel their wedding or postpone it.
592280	597540	It's very different right now because we feel like we don't have control of our life.
598160	603640	And I mean, it's a kind of a silly thing because we really don't have control of our life to a certain extent.
603640	608820	I mean, but we have this ability to know that we're able to predict a little bit more.
609100	613460	And now these days, we can only predict what's going to happen probably that day.
613460	626680	It's very hard to be able to figure out, OK, so I could do this tomorrow or that next week because we don't even know what the situation is going to look like in the world in a day or two or a week.
626680	635040	With the pandemic and also the political turmoil that's happening around the world, it's bringing things unease.
635160	643080	And I want you to know that it's OK to not be OK. I don't think any one of us feels OK right now.
643320	653500	And that's the thing we need to know is that, yes, burnout can be from work and everything, but it's also we're going through a lot as human beings right now.
655300	662820	So we're going to talk about that. But the first thing to note is a very broad way of speaking about burnout.
662820	668900	I want you to imagine that you're like some sort of device that hasn't been charged or it's at the very end of a charge.
669460	677340	That's what burnout is like. It's like you are a device and your battery is just dying and been on red, I guess, for a while.
679000	684520	But I want to let you guys know I am not a therapist, but I have dealt with burnout.
684520	688360	I've dealt with some pretty bad burnouts in my lifetime.
688460	700700	But the one thing I know for sure is that by working with therapists to try to promote mental health in the workplace for security teams all over,
700700	709940	the one thing I actually know about is these are some primal ways how to prevent and how to help yourself if you're dealing with burnout right now.
710380	717200	So I hope you take this as advice as a friend, not as a therapist, once again.
718720	722440	But the first thing I want to let you know is that you should probably see a doctor.
722440	729060	And the reason for that is sometimes burnout can cause from having low certain amounts of vitamins in your body.
729060	737520	For example, if you're low in vitamin D or low in iron or vitamin Bs, you're going to have issues when it comes to focusing.
737620	744040	So it's really important to get checked out by your doctor, making sure your vitals are all OK, because sometimes it's just that.
744040	748680	Maybe you just have very low iron and by taking supplements, you start feeling better.
748720	757180	So just keep that in mind. It's always good to just get checked out for that before you jump to if it's something also happening mentally.
757180	763060	But you can still do all these steps I'm going to tell you about anyway, regardless.
763060	769440	Actually, you should be practicing them right now because things are just amazing.
769860	773820	OK, let's go. So what does burnout textbook definition is?
773820	779800	Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, mental exhaustion caused by excessive prolonged stress.
779800	785360	It occurs when you feel overwhelmed, emotionally drained and unable to meet constant demands.
785360	790100	And yes, there is a quiz at the bottom there that you can go and do yourself.
790100	795760	But I want to let you guys know that if you don't like your job, it's going to be great for you.
795760	799560	If you love your job, it's not going to be as good for you.
799700	812620	So those examples that I used at the very beginning of this talk, those you should use that as your guidelines to see whether or not you're starting to feel like you're in burnout or if you are burned out already.
814420	822340	So we're going to talk first about how to prevent. Now, on the tips on how to prevent, you could do this anyway if you are already burned out.
822340	833760	So this is really good for you to know. Now, the thing is, is that usually the recommendation is exercise, eat a balanced diet, practice good sleep habits, ask for help.
833760	844640	But let's be real right now. Exercise, that's not a possibility maybe because gyms are all closed. And yeah, let's just start there.
845040	849300	Eat a balanced diet. Yeah, it would be great if we could eat a balanced diet.
849300	860360	But the one thing for sure I'll tell you about is how many trips to the grocery store can you go to without putting yourself at risk or your loved ones at risk.
860360	868660	So it's a little bit harder to get all those things. Not just that, things tend to go quickly in the grocery stores these days as well.
869040	881140	So what I mean by this eat a balanced diet, I want you more to be focused on what you are eating and what you're consuming when it comes to beverages.
881920	887500	You know when you're a little bit more burned out is when you're taking in more caffeine than usual.
887500	897660	So keep that in mind. So if you're reaching for more caffeine than the usual, please note that you probably are dealing with some burnout or you're overwhelmed or you're getting close to it.
897880	912500	If you are reaching for more alcohol these days, please also make note of that because when people are burned out, they're more likely to drink more alcohol than they usually do.
912500	925160	And that means also if you're on any drugs or anything like that, if you're reaching more for it or you never did it before and now you are, I think it's time for you to take a pause and reevaluate what's going on.
925160	936260	Now the other thing about balanced diet is that when we are craving salty, sugary things, that's usually when we're trying to help ourselves emotionally deal with what's happening.
936600	953280	So do keep an eye on your eating habits. So emotional burnout will do that to you where you'll just kind of like emotionally consume and many of us do it or some of us don't even eat while we're emotionally overwhelmed.
953280	963660	So keep an eye on how you eat and your patterns. It's going to be really important. And if that means keeping a little note of things that you're eating, drinking and whatnot, and then comparing it later on, so be it.
963660	968720	Just don't do the calorie thing because that becomes kind of unhealthy. So stay away from that.
968720	975720	Now when it comes to practice good sleep habits, yes, it wouldn't be fantastic if we could sleep without insomnia.
976700	991900	Good old days. But the thing is to be realistic with you is that sleep habits that are good is trying your best to kind of like, you know, stay away from your devices about an hour before bed can really help.
991980	999580	But the other thing is, there are some techniques on how to prevent that will also help reduce your chances of having insomnia.
999580	1005800	So we'll be able to work through that together because I don't know about you, but the first couple months of the pandemic, I couldn't sleep.
1005800	1013780	I was constantly worried that I would have it and I would get to my parents and I would lose my parents because of me.
1013780	1019400	And so that was a really heavy weight and I couldn't really sleep for a good number of weeks.
1019400	1029540	Because I would just wake up during the night, just all rattled up. And that's the reality. We're in a tricky situation, like I said.
1029540	1037660	And so it's okay if you're not getting good sleep habits going on right now. It's understandable. Don't feel guilty about it.
1037660	1046840	Because you're trying to figure out what's going on in the world in a very interesting time that many of us have never experienced before.
1046840	1054040	So, you know, take a deep breath, appreciate yourself, because you're trying to do whatever you can to make you feel okay right now.
1054040	1057660	And, you know, that's a good step forward, in my opinion.
1057880	1063180	Ask for help. No matter what, whatever it is, ask for help is always important.
1063180	1069100	So even in the middle of a pandemic, you can always ask for help. You just need to know who to go to.
1069460	1075120	Anyway, let's go into what I think are probably the best steps forward on how to prevent.
1075840	1082720	First things first, you got to be self-aware. You will not know if you're burned out unless you know you are burned out.
1082720	1089900	Some people will come up to you and be like, hey, I noticed you used to have this type of behavior and now you're kind of switching things up.
1090840	1097560	Try not to get to that point where someone's telling you what's going on and you, you should be able to know what's happening with you.
1097560	1099660	And I'm going to teach you some of those ways.
1099660	1113100	So first things first, if you notice in your inbox that it's taking longer to respond, please know you might be dealing with burnout and or you are getting close to being burned out.
1113400	1123420	One of the best tricks that I can tell you about whether or not you are burned out is when you feel like your personal life and your work life are off balance.
1123420	1135980	And so because of that, that's going to cause you to have issues when it comes to focusing, feeling like everything's a task around you, feeling overwhelmed, because you're also losing a part of yourself to in the middle of it.
1135980	1144360	So it's really important to keep your work and personal life balanced in the middle of a pandemic, which is a lot easier to say than, you know, to do.
1144580	1150260	For some of us, we have kids and that makes it really hard because they're always around and we don't get breaks.
1150260	1157840	But the thing is just to be aware that you need to find a way how to have that work and personal life balance, even if you're working from home.
1158480	1165680	So self-awareness is really important on that front. The other thing is just constantly feeling exhausted is another one.
1165680	1175060	And seeing if your emotions go from like sudden sadness or anger, and you usually don't have those as much, that's going to be one of those things as well.
1175060	1184180	So I hope those are some good takeaways. So if you just feel like something isn't right, it might be a good time to start doing these preventative techniques.
1184320	1189980	Honestly, I feel like we should all be doing these techniques regardless, just to be on the safe side.
1190740	1200840	But the first things first is having a self-awareness, it's hard, but there's ways how to learn out. I mean, and by learn out, I mean to learn about it.
1200840	1210660	So what I do is I journal. Yes, my lovely Little Prince journal. If any of you guys are Little Prince fans, high five virtually.
1212320	1221040	It's really important for you to journal. So one of the things that I realized is like by writing weekly or every day is as much as you can.
1221040	1227320	Okay, don't put it like every day, I'm going to journal everything because the thing is, you might fail at that.
1227320	1236240	And you don't want to feel like a failure right now either. So the thing is, be open about it. Be like, you know what, I feel like journaling today.
1236260	1243240	If you do, then journal. If you don't, then don't. But the thing is, by journaling, you have a better idea of what's going on deep down inside.
1243240	1262060	For example, once you write something, read it, see what you're talking about. And then what you should also do is look at your previous kind of journaling as well in your journal to see if there's any patterns that you're seeing.
1262060	1275460	It's really important to see patterns because you'll start seeing what's going on deep down inside, this feeling of trappedness. If that's showing up in your writing, then that should let you know that you're feeling overwhelmed and pressure wise.
1275460	1290000	The other thing that's really important about writing it versus typing it, it's because it's like a free flow. So you're able to actually really like just take everything out of your head onto a piece of paper.
1290000	1297320	It's something that's very personalized too. So I really do recommend doing it by paper and pen if you can.
1297480	1306360	If not, typing is totally okay. But I do recommend journaling as much as possible, but only do it when you're feeling comfortable doing so.
1306600	1312580	And that's how you kind of get a better idea of what's going on deep down inside that you may not have known.
1315240	1327460	As some of you guys know, I do take breaks from my devices and there's reasons for that. I do a device detox. I know it sounds very goop. I understand that and everything.
1327460	1335260	But the thing is, it really does help. By taking a break from Twitter, it's amazing. I cannot tell you enough.
1335260	1347800	Sometimes when you go on Twitter, you're just like, and everything is burning. Fantastic. So just know that for a fact that like taking time off from your devices is going to be really important.
1347800	1358280	And I'm not suggesting you throwing any devices out the door or on the ground. I mean, believe me, there are times where I see tweets and I'm like, are you kidding me?
1358280	1371760	And there is points where I feel like I want to throw something, but don't do it. So overall, take a break is really important. So you want to make sure that you take one day a week, a break from InfoSec.
1371760	1380660	And you're like, wait, what? Yes, you need to. You need to take a day off every week. That's to do nothing that's InfoSec related.
1380660	1395340	This is going to help rebalance yourself. Because the thing is, in InfoSec itself, we work 24-7. Security never sleeps. Come on. So the thing is, is that it's one type of industry that it's constantly working around the clock.
1395340	1403760	Even if you're not supposedly working, you're still thinking about it. So the thing is, it's really important to take a break. So take one day a week of a break.
1403760	1413620	And what I mean by that also is turn off your devices and get off social media for one day per week. And this could be anywhere from four hours to eight hours or beyond that.
1413620	1425660	Now, when you do set up your break time every week, which I recommend the weekend, by the way, make sure to message your loved ones to let them know that you're going to be taking some time off from devices.
1425660	1438600	And if they need to reach you, this is the way to do it. Just to know for them to know that you're okay, but also just in case of emergencies as well. So make sure you do that.
1439760	1448740	The other thing, like I said, about journaling, you know, writing, it helps a lot. But having a to-do list is really important too.
1448740	1460940	So what I do with my to-do list, I take it everywhere I go. And of course, I mean, taking it everywhere in my home because I can't go outside. So the thing is, is to keep your to-do list with you at all times.
1461880	1471800	And when I mean that, I mean, like, have it by your bed when you're going to sleep, when you wake up, you know, bring it to the coffee table. I don't know, just bring it with you all the time.
1471800	1482520	And the reason for that is because you need to find more space in your mind. And so the best way how to get more space in your mind and think about other things is to write it down.
1482600	1493960	So for example, anything, task or assignment that you need to get done, writing it down will help you prioritize. But not just that, but it also allows you to feel like you can breathe a little bit more.
1493960	1505060	This is a really good technique, especially if you're dealing with insomnia. And the reason for that is usually what happens is right when you're going to sleep, you know, you're kind of getting all cozy in bed.
1505060	1521340	The next thing you know, your eyes are closing and you think you're about to go into your dreamland. But nope, what happens is, oh my God, I forgot to send that email. Or I forgot to do that task or that assignment. And oh my God, what should I write in that email? I have to write something in there.
1521340	1532620	How would I word that? I need a word that. Or in the middle of the night, you wake up like, that is a fantastic idea. I need to do this idea. How am I going to do this idea?
1532620	1553760	I wonder if this person would be good to help me on that idea. So the thing is, through my examples, I hope you've learned. Having a to-do list means when you have that come through your mind that you need to send that email or that idea comes to your mind in the middle of the night and now you can't sleep because you're thinking about it, write it down.
1553760	1571220	And I don't mean your phone. Do not do it on your phone. And the reason for that is because what happens is every time we get on our phone to make a list or do anything on it, we start going on doing other things on our phone. And that's not going to help us when we need to go back to sleep.
1571220	1593980	So the most important thing is have your to-do list with you all the time. Write down anything and then cross out anything that is not that you've completed. Now, yes, you can separate your work and your personal life on that to-do list. You can have two separate little books if you want. Whatever works best for you. Personally, for myself, I just keep them all on one sheet.
1593980	1609460	And then I use a different color or I'll highlight for things that are personal versus work things. And this really helps me know all the projects that I've taken on. Now, the first time I started doing this assignment, it was about five pages long.
1609620	1621360	So please know it's okay if you're feeling a little bit stressed out about writing this down because a part of you is like, Chloe, I can't do that. You have no idea. My anxiety is going to go through the roof because
1622140	1628120	I'm doing so much and seeing all that is going to scare me and I'm not going to be able to sleep.
1628680	1649420	So I'm someone who deals with anxiety. I'll be very honest with you. And yes, at first it was a little bit overwhelming. But then it also felt really relieving because suddenly I realized that I had more time to think about other things. Other things are more important than a task or an assignment and reminding myself over and over that I need to do those things.
1649420	1654640	I had a time to actually think and have more self awareness of what was happening in my life.
1654800	1663620	So I really do recommend writing it down. And yes, it could be overwhelming. But remember that thing I taught you at the very beginning, six breaths for a minute.
1663620	1671560	That should help you too. If you're feeling a little overwhelmed, you know, do that. Close your eyes. Or one of the other things you can do is simply
1672140	1685080	put it down, walk away, go for a walk in your home, listen to music, close the door, dance in your own room, do whatever. But the thing is, take a moment to pause and be like, okay.
1685420	1697940	Now it's okay if it's overwhelming too, because it's also letting you know that you've taken on too much. And that was the one way that I knew that I knew I was doing a lot, but I didn't know I was doing a lot.
1697940	1713100	And so that list really helped me readjust and start being able to see the trends that I'm doing that's putting myself at a burnout rate. So I really do recommend doing a to do list. It really does help you a lot.
1713100	1737240	All right. Now, for managers, this is for you. If you're an employer or manager, we need to talk. I know that maybe some of you guys just don't like the idea of us working from home, even though it hasn't really been terrible in a sense. Like, didn't your employees do the work anyway?
1737240	1759080	Yeah, they probably did. Because one of the things to note is trust is bilateral, meaning you need to trust your employees so your trust goes back and forth. And it's really important is to start building those relationships with your employees if you haven't. Because by having trust, you're going to be able to help each other out.
1759080	1786540	Because let's be honest with each other. There's a lot going on in your life, too. And your employee is going through a lot, too. So it's really important is to set up these like one-on-ones weekly with each of your employees if you can. And you can make them 15 minutes or 30 minutes. But this is a good way to check in with each other and to dive into all the tasks and to work together to prioritize things in whatever order is more important.
1786540	1802140	That really helps someone be able to be more organized and also know that there's some sort of collaboration. And collaboration is definitely key for good teamwork as well. So this helps with communication issues if necessary. So I do recommend doing that.
1802140	1824260	Now, the other thing I'd also recommend is if you're an employer, I suggest you're doing a mental health day once a month and do it right around the weekend. And I know you're like, wait, but what does that mean? That means having everyone take a personal day. This could be a personal day of learning. This could be a personal day of catching up. It could be anything.
1824260	1846720	But I do recommend doing something like this once a month because we're all going through a lot right now. And it might be really nice to show some appreciation by giving a day off on a Friday or a Monday. But the thing is, it's important to do that because people need breaks sometimes. And unfortunately, we don't get that many holidays. So it'd be nice for you to do that.
1846720	1875220	Now, the other thing to note is if you're noticing people are not performing as their usual, meaning they're a little bit behind or they keep postponing things or they're not responding emails fast enough or their emotions are a little bit different than usually in the past, this is a good time to have those one-on-ones too. Don't let them go and be like they're being lazy. That's not what's going on. Chances are there's something going on in their personal life.
1875220	1893320	So be a good boss and be there for them. And if possible, be open and transparent as well. If you're dealing with something horrible right now, you know, you don't have to talk about the specifics of it, but I do recommend being open with your team what's going on.
1893320	1921220	It really does bring more respect. And respect goes both ways, right? So I just want you guys to know this is because the chances are you might be micromanaging or you're not understanding what is happening. And because of that, you might put your security team at risk or you might put your people at a moment where they're feeling burned out and getting even worse.
1921220	1944940	And it's your job as a manager to want to see your employees or the people who report to you, whatever way you want to frame it. It's your job to want to have them go beyond you because that's when you know you're an amazing boss. So be a good manager and take the necessary steps to help your team.
1944940	1972160	Now, the other thing to note about is I do recommend also putting one day per week for your team to have a no meetings day, meaning heads down kind of day where you do any catch up that you need to. And usually a Monday or Friday is usually the best for that. So I do recommend doing a weekly no meetings day. That really does help everyone on the team be able to play catch up. Okay, that's it on the manager side. Let's dive into more stuff.
1972160	1999420	So how to bounce back. Let's go into this now. Now, one thing I want to point out is for some of you might be asking, what is the difference between burnout and stress? So stress is more like if I take a bubble bath or if I go to a spa for the day or I drink a glass of champagne or a couple glasses of wine, I'm going to feel pretty good. I'm going to feel pretty relaxed. And you know, I'll let the steam off and whatnot.
2000820	2018580	Burnout is different. Burnout is I could do all of those things and it didn't do anything for me. That is the difference between burnout and stress. Stress is something that is, you know, a little bit more healthier in a sense that like if you do something here or there, it's going to make you feel a lot lighter.
2018580	2040720	But burnout is no matter what you do, it doesn't seem like to be enough. So that's one thing to keep in perspective. Now, all those other things of preventative techniques, those are all work if you're already in burnout. But I'm going to talk about if you're already a burnout stage, what you need to do as soon as possible.
2040720	2060520	Are you guys ready for this? Let's do this. Take time off. I know this like really short thing. But if you do one thing for yourself, if you're already burned out, take time off. And I don't mean, oh, a three day weekend. A three day weekend is not going to do anything for you. If you're burned out, you need at least three work days off.
2060520	2082520	I recommend taking a whole week off. So, you know, from like weekend to weekend. And the reason for that is that's how you recharge your batteries is taking time off. And I know it's really scary to take time off. I am one of those people that didn't take time off for two and a half years and I had to do it in July because I needed to take some time off.
2082520	2108000	But the thing that made me stress out the most was me taking time off means two things. One, I have to worry about my colleagues, making sure that they're able to stay afloat while I'm away. The second thing is what am I going to return to besides all the dumpster fires and emails and so on. So I'm going to give you some tips on this.
2108000	2129340	First thing first, I hate to break it to you, but if you're burned out, you're probably not doing really good at doing your job right now as much as you wish that you were. When you're recharged, you're able to do way more type of work, you're more productive, you're more able to catch mistakes earlier on. So I really do recommend don't have that thought come through.
2129340	2151000	You need to take time off. The second thing to note is taking time off. The other stress is returning to a huge flood of emails and being very far behind at work. So here are two suggestions I have for you. One is what your out of office message should probably be two days after you get back.
2151000	2170760	So for example, like if I'm coming back on the first, I'm going to set it for letting people know I'm back on the third. So that gives me two days of secretly doing work without anyone knowing and not having to feel like I owe someone something right when I get back. That's one recommendation.
2170760	2197280	Second recommendation I have for you is a block on your calendar, at least one or two days for when you return for no meetings at all. And when you get back on your first day, email your team members and ask what is a huge priority for you to do right away and let them let you know. So then you know what to prioritize and it's not just through emails.
2197280	2222460	The other thing is to make sure that any messaging that happens while you're away, have it on one channel. That's right. You have Slack, you have other things and email, you have Signal, you have all these other great stuff. But in reality, you should just focus on one. So ask your teammates to on anything, any type of project, please just send it via email and to CCUNF.
2222460	2231340	Don't rely on having to go through Slack and see all your messages because that's an additional stress. So I recommend just telling everyone to do email.
2231800	2251440	Now the guilt about the team members, once again, you're not going to be a great team member if you're already burned out. I hate to tell you that. But it's the reality. When you're burned out, chances are you're going to postpone things. You're going to be not responding to emails anyway. So it's better to just take some time off.
2251440	2269520	Now, if you're wondering, how do I even approach my manager about taking time off for my mental health? I recommend the following things. Hopefully you have a good relationship with your manager and you can be very transparent, set up a little one on one with him or her. But the thing you should also know is that
2270520	2291400	if they don't do one on ones with you, set up a little 10 minute call with them. And you can do FaceTime. I recommend that. So then it's a person to person, face to face kind of thing. And let them know like, I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed with personal life and work life and I need to take some time off.
2291400	2310780	These are the dates that I'm looking at. What do you seem to work best for you? Because I need to do this for myself. And it's also a way to, you know, be there for my team. Your manager will probably be not happy per se, but will be like, okay, you got it.
2310780	2333600	Now, the thing to note is right after your meeting with them, make sure you send an email saying, thanks, whatever your boss's name, thanks for talking with me today and about my taking time off on the following dates. I appreciate you helping me in this moment. That's all.
2333600	2358980	And the reason for that is you want to keep a paper trail, no matter what. So if the person ever did decide to put it in your face and be like, you took time off. No one takes time off here or anything like that. Or they just want to be a jerk. Just have your paper trail because it'll protect you. And yeah, and you always have that record. Also send that email for it to your personal email too.
2358980	2383420	Keep two paper trails, personal email, work email. So that's one thing I have to tell you. And if you're a manager, please don't make them feel guilty because chances are they really do need to take that time off. It's already probably hard for them to even ask for taking time off. We do get guilty. We do feel guilty when we take time off. So please keep that in mind.
2383420	2388800	Now remember three days, okay? You cannot do a three-day weekend. Three business days.
2390060	2411860	Learn to say no. Remember that handy-dandy to-do list? Now this is probably when you first start it, you're like, oh my god, I've taken on way too much. It's time for you to start saying no. Because if you are a top performer, chances are they're going to ask you to do more work because you're so good at what you do. And they're like, oh, well, you can handle more of this.
2411860	2430200	The other thing is you might find that not only if you're a top performer, but maybe if you're someone who's underrepresented, they see you wearing other hats on top of your job and will hand you over assignments. And I'm sorry to say you're probably going to get burned out way faster than you ever imagined.
2430200	2458160	And the reality is, is that I had the hardest time ever to tell someone no, I cannot do that. And sometimes it was really hard because the whole thing is like, well, I don't want to, I don't want to hold back my team, but this isn't part of my job, but I will be there. I'll help catch, you know, everything. And I'm all about supporting team. But when it comes to your mental health, if you're not doing well, you should not be doing those things.
2458160	2479620	You have to draw a line. And yes, your boss might get angry about it. But, you know, like I said, you also need to remind your boss what your job is and do it in email. Once again, keep a paper trail because you never know sometimes. That is the one thing I have learned in my career. Keep a paper trail.
2479620	2506580	So make sure to say no. When you don't want to do it, or it's not part of your job, or you really can't handle it, say no. And it's okay to say no. That's the one thing. You're never going to be perfect. You're never going to be able to please anyone. If anything, you'll realize more and more in life that you really can't please every single person in your life, and not everyone's going to like you. And that's okay. That's okay.
2509620	2530120	Another thing to know about burnout that you should know is that burnout happens when you're not investing in yourself. By not being able to say no, you're allowing someone to take advantage of you at times. And so it's really important to know where you're, basically, where your lines are being crossed.
2530220	2538700	If it's not part of your job, you shouldn't have to do those things. But yes, being there for your team members is important, but there's also moments where you can't do that.
2539620	2557940	So number one, to invest in yourself. Also, the whole takeaway of the preventative techniques was also for you to know that you need to have a life outside of InfoSec, too. And I know that's really, really hard being in the hacker world and everything like that. And trust me, I can only get one day off a week, maybe, if I'm lucky.
2557940	2579840	But it's really important to invest in yourself. Spend some time on making you feel happy. Because life is about being happy. It's about doing the things that you want to do, but also to try to be there for others is important, too, as a human being. But you can't be there for another human being when you can't even be there for yourself.
2579840	2603880	So it's really important for you to take the time to invest in yourself. Journal, paint, write, read a book. Hey, did you know there's a hacker book club? I know it's InfoSec related, but if you want, you can come and join us. But the thing is, is like invest in yourself. Find the things that make you happy, make you like passionate. And if you're not getting that at work, then maybe it's time to look elsewhere.
2603880	2623380	And I know it's scary to look for a job in the middle of a pandemic, but the good news is that InfoSec, there's loads of jobs there for you. You just have to look and know where to look. And then also there are people in the network and the community that are more than willing to help you try to find something or hopefully open a door for you.
2623380	2653360	So it's really important is take the time to invest in yourself, make things better for you by taking time off and spending time with you and yourself. Now, I do want to say that when you take time off for burnout, remember that whole thing, taking a break from devices and social media? I highly suggest you doing that too, because when you're taking time off, that means taking a break from your emails, from everything that's related to InfoSec and to be able to refocus on things that make you happy.
2654880	2677760	And if that means rebuilding relationships with friends and family, that means doing so because probably at some point you started seeing them as tasks that you just couldn't handle the more of the weight and responsibilities that you already have in your life. So it's important to never feel trapped in your life. You shouldn't feel that way. If you do, it's time to reinvest in yourself.
2677760	2693860	And if you're wondering what are things that make you happy, what are things that you do outside of InfoSec, make a T-chart and write InfoSec in one column and non-InfoSec in another column and circle the things that you love and that you miss that you haven't done for a while. That's a good way how to get started.
2695240	2720780	But the main takeaways overwhelmingly are these following things. So when you feel overwhelmed, do a device detox. That's right. Take a day off from your devices and social media once a week. If that means you can only do four hours, then it's just four hours. But the thing is, take as many hours as you can for that one day per week. And I recommend everyone doing this right now, to be honest.
2720780	2736900	When you feel overwhelmed, invest in yourself. Like I said, you have to invest in yourself to know what's going on. You need to have that self-awareness to take care of you because you can't rely on other people to take care of you sometimes. So it's important for you to find the ways to invest in yourself.
2736900	2760320	When you feel overwhelmed, ask for help. Talk to your manager, ask your friends, your family, your colleagues. Ask for help. You should never feel shy to ask for help. This is the time where you need someone to be there for you. And there are plenty of organizations out there and people in the community that are willing to be there for you. You just have to ask.
2760320	2781320	When you feel overwhelmed, write it down. That's right. Journal, to-do list. It's going to help free out your mind and so you're better to understand what you've signed up for, when enough is enough for you, what's the trends that are happening in your mind, and so on. It's very important for you to know those things.
2781320	2793760	When you feel overwhelmed, take a break. That's right. Take one day per week to escape from InfoSec. And I recommend doing it on the same day as your device detox, to be honest, because then you get two things done in one day.
2794460	2813080	But the thing is, if you're already burned out, make sure that you do more than three business days, remember. So weekend, three business days. So it gives you five days to recharge your batteries. And to be able to charge batteries, I want to reiterate, that means taking time away from devices and social media.
2813080	2824940	When you feel overwhelmed, put yourself first. It is very important. You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of another person. It's, it's just, just do it.
2824940	2835240	That is the one lesson that I've learned in life is that if you want to do a lot in the world, you need to also make sure that you're mentally okay to be able to do so.
2835240	2851620	Because you'll be able to put in more energy, more of an effect in whatever you want to do to help others by being balanced yourself. It's very, very important. Burnout is all about the art of balance.
2851720	2861940	When you feel overwhelmed, know you're not alone. Please know you are never alone in InfoSec. If you feel like that, there are so many organizations. DM me, I will refer you to people.
2861940	2872400	But the thing is, never feel alone. No one should feel alone right now. And I know it's a crazy world and everything. But I send you virtual hugs or high fives, whatever you prefer.
2872600	2887380	But please know you're never alone here. The community has you. I mean, if it wasn't for the community, I wouldn't be where I am today. And I've definitely had moments before I entered the InfoSec community where I felt isolated and alone.
2887380	2901780	And I just want to let you know that you're not. And, you know, there's always people out there that are dealing with the same things as you are, or have gone through it and are able to be there for you and give advice and suggestions to help you out.
2901780	2919120	So, like I said, that goes in hand with ask for help. But most importantly, the main takeaway to know whether or not you are burned out, always ask the question, am I balancing my work and personal life? If not, now you know the steps to fix it.
2921240	2941540	And you got this. I believe in you. I kid you not. I had a burnout and I felt way better after taking time off. And I got to recharge my batteries and able to do everything. But it also made me realize what are the things I need to prioritize more in my life and to have a better sense of what makes me happy too.
2941540	2957640	And having that balance of infosec life and personal life, it's hard to do in the hacker community, but it's so important for you to do that because that's the only way that we're going to grow as individuals and to be there and present for the world that we're in.
2958640	2984560	And I just want to say thank you again to AppSec Village for having me and thank you all for existing. And I really hope that you all are staying safe. If you have any questions or anything like that, feel free to message me. Also, my DMs are open. So if you do feel like you want to have more of a private one-on-one without anyone knowing, feel free to message as well. I'm here for you and I hope to provide as much guidance as possible.
2984560	3010980	But in the meantime, I just want to say thank you again and please stay safe. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your DEF CON experience this year. And I really hope that I get to see everyone next year in person. So let's just all hope for that as well. In the meantime, thank you guys for existing. And like I said, never hesitate to ask a question or to seek for help. There's always people there that want to help you.
3010980	3015720	All right, and that is all. Thank you guys. I'll see you later.