WEBVTT 00:13.720 --> 00:15.820 Hey AppSecVillage, welcome back. 00:15.820 --> 00:21.620 I hope you're having a great time at DEF CON 2020 and you're enjoying the speakers that we have in the village. 00:21.840 --> 00:28.980 This next topic is one I think is really, really very important and something we don't talk about often enough. 00:28.980 --> 00:33.020 It is entitled, The Elephant in the Room, Burnout. 00:33.200 --> 00:40.620 I've been in IT for over 30 years, and in that time I've seen burnout in colleagues, in friends, and sometimes even in myself. 00:40.620 --> 00:48.520 It's an important topic, and we're going to hear from Chloe Mostagi, who is the VP of Strategy at Point3 Security. 00:48.640 --> 00:55.000 She's an ethical hacker advocate who strongly believes that information security is a humanitarian issue. 00:55.240 --> 01:01.920 Besides her passion to keep people safe and empowered, both online and offline, she is driven to fight for hacker rights. 01:02.100 --> 01:14.320 She is the founder of WeAreHackers, formerly known as WomenHackers, and the president and co-founder of the Women of Security, a podcast for ITSP magazine's The Uncommon Journey, and runs the Hacker Book Club. 01:14.440 --> 01:17.900 Please welcome Chloe to the AppSecVillage stage. 01:18.720 --> 01:27.180 Hi everyone, my name is Chloe Mostagi, and I'm so excited to share a talk with you around burnout for AppSecVillage. 01:27.180 --> 01:39.100 Now, before we begin, I know that this might be kind of emotional for some of you, so if you do, please do this one practice, which is six breaths in one minute. 01:39.100 --> 01:49.140 So, breathe in through your nose, exhale through your mouth, and do that six times within the minute if you're feeling like it's a little too much at times. 01:49.260 --> 01:50.400 So, let's begin. 01:50.400 --> 01:52.320 I'm looking forward to this talk. 01:52.320 --> 01:54.080 Let me just share my screen with you. 01:54.080 --> 01:55.200 One second. 01:59.540 --> 02:07.020 Okay, so we're going to talk about the elephant in the room, burnout. 02:07.020 --> 02:15.080 Which, it really is an elephant in the room, because most of the time, we never really hear about burnout when we're in our office. 02:15.080 --> 02:18.240 We tend to hear it outside of our office. 02:18.280 --> 02:23.160 And when it comes to mental health, it isn't something that most companies practice. 02:23.480 --> 02:28.140 And so, this pandemic, though, has been able to bring it more forward. 02:28.140 --> 02:39.380 So, this talk is going to cover about burnout, what you can do yourself, and if you are an employer, manager, I also will give you some tips as well. 02:39.620 --> 02:41.520 So, let's dive into this. 02:41.520 --> 02:43.980 For those that don't know who I am, my name is Chloe Mastaggi. 02:44.020 --> 02:47.800 I'm the VP of Strategy at Point3 Security. 02:47.800 --> 02:50.560 I'm an ethical hacker advocate as well. 02:50.720 --> 02:53.280 You're wondering, what is that exactly? 02:53.280 --> 03:08.840 Basically, I look around the community and I listen to what people say about how things can be improved for hackers, and making sure that they have rights is one of them, but also making sure that all voices are being represented and seen equally at the table. 03:08.840 --> 03:12.720 Well, let's just pretend an InfoSec table of them all. 03:13.020 --> 03:16.180 I'm also the president and co-founder of WOSEC, which is Women of Security. 03:16.180 --> 03:23.140 We have chapters all over the world for women and also for non-binary as well. 03:23.560 --> 03:27.520 I'm also the founder of WeAreHackers, which is formerly known as Women Hackers. 03:27.520 --> 03:34.360 We are a private virtual community for, basically, underrepresented genders who hack at all levels. 03:34.360 --> 03:39.140 We do workshops, we do events and activities, but it's a good community to be part of. 03:39.140 --> 03:43.920 So then, you know, if you ever need support, you want to know the latest trends and tools, hey, guess what? 03:43.920 --> 03:45.800 We have a cool platform for you to join. 03:46.100 --> 03:49.020 And yes, WeAreHackers from WOSEC is completely free. 03:49.020 --> 03:50.440 You'll never have to pay anything. 03:50.940 --> 03:53.400 I'm also the Hacker Book Club organizer. 03:53.400 --> 03:57.520 So basically, we meet every week on Tuesday at 5 p.m. 03:57.520 --> 03:59.140 Pacific time, that is. 03:59.140 --> 04:06.220 And we read a book, basically, that is about the hacker community or is written by someone from the hacker community. 04:06.220 --> 04:08.380 So every month we start a new book. 04:08.580 --> 04:13.380 And I think the upcoming one is Tribe of Hackers, the Red Team Edition. 04:13.380 --> 04:14.920 So very excited. 04:14.940 --> 04:17.600 And yes, authors do attend our meetings. 04:17.600 --> 04:20.580 And also, those that are mentioned in the book. 04:21.260 --> 04:29.440 I'm also a podcaster for ITSP magazines, The Uncommon Journey with Alyssa Miller and also with Phil Wiley. 04:29.740 --> 04:31.420 And yes, that is my URL. 04:31.420 --> 04:34.200 So if you want to learn more about me, it's right there. 04:34.200 --> 04:37.320 And also, my Twitter and Instagram, my DMs are always open. 04:37.320 --> 04:43.320 So feel free to ask me anything or just if you want to get to know me, that's the best place to start. 04:43.440 --> 04:45.780 So let's dive into the things that actually matter. 04:46.580 --> 04:52.380 So I'm going to give you some scenarios to know whether or not that you're dealing with burnout yourself. 04:52.720 --> 04:58.980 So first things first, I want you to imagine you're driving in your car. 04:59.300 --> 05:04.840 And while you're driving in your car, you need to merge to the other lane. 05:05.460 --> 05:08.220 And by merging to the other lane, let's say the left lane. 05:08.220 --> 05:18.440 Now when you're thinking about merging to the other lane, something comes over you where you're like, well, what if I don't look in my mirror when I make my merge? 05:18.520 --> 05:24.360 Maybe I'll get an accident, which is great because that means I don't have to do this task, this assignment. 05:24.360 --> 05:26.060 I don't have to go to work. 05:26.060 --> 05:28.680 I have a valid excuse for everything. 05:28.680 --> 05:33.620 And then I could get a break finally from all the stuff that I'm drowning in. 05:34.440 --> 05:39.860 This is a sign of burnout when it gets really bad. 05:41.200 --> 05:46.860 Another example of how some people tend to notice that they're dealing with burnout is with their emails. 05:47.100 --> 05:50.560 For example, it used to take you like a couple of minutes to respond to an email. 05:50.560 --> 05:55.760 Now it takes you 10 minutes, maybe an hour, maybe a couple hours, maybe a day or two. 05:56.000 --> 06:04.820 And then next thing you know, your inbox is just flooded and you don't know what to do because it's just so many emails and it's overwhelming you. 06:06.700 --> 06:17.260 Or another example is, for example, declining phone calls from your friends and families and maybe your colleagues or not respond to their text messages in time. 06:17.380 --> 06:19.480 It might not be because you're busy. 06:19.480 --> 06:22.360 It's just because you see them as a task. 06:22.360 --> 06:28.700 You see them as something you have to do another thing on top of everything else that you're doing. 06:28.700 --> 06:39.900 And so you start seeing people that are your friends, your family, your loved ones as kind of like a responsibility and a task. 06:39.900 --> 06:42.960 And it puts a lot of extra weight on you. 06:43.740 --> 06:46.380 That's one of the other signs of burnout. 06:48.180 --> 06:54.500 But for many people, when they're burned out, their emotions can be pretty all over the place. 06:54.500 --> 07:00.720 And what I mean by that is like you can suddenly get really angry and really sad and you really don't know why. 07:00.720 --> 07:06.360 But you just feel like your emotions are kind of up in the air and it's very hard to control them sometimes. 07:06.360 --> 07:11.440 Or you just you start noticing like you're just feeling bothered a lot easier. 07:12.060 --> 07:16.920 And one of the things to know about burnout is the sense of feeling of being trapped. 07:16.920 --> 07:18.440 You feel trapped. 07:18.440 --> 07:20.180 You might feel empty. 07:20.180 --> 07:24.920 You just feel like no matter what you do, it's just overwhelming. 07:27.860 --> 07:29.060 Due date. 07:29.320 --> 07:31.880 So let's dive into this. 07:31.880 --> 07:33.800 We all kind of procrastinate. 07:33.800 --> 07:35.080 I'll be real with you. 07:35.080 --> 07:36.920 I procrastinate too. 07:36.920 --> 07:39.380 When I'm like, this is not a big thing. 07:39.380 --> 07:41.860 I don't have the energy nor the time to do this yet. 07:41.860 --> 07:43.860 I'm going to wait till the last minute to get it done. 07:43.860 --> 07:48.400 And then you get into this like certain flow and then you're like, okay, I got this. 07:48.400 --> 07:52.300 Well, let me tell you about burnout procrastination. 07:52.300 --> 07:54.240 It's a little bit more different than that. 07:54.240 --> 07:59.240 It means that you basically you're so overwhelmed that you really can't hit your deadlines. 07:59.460 --> 08:03.700 And it's not because you feel like you have too many tasks assigned to you. 08:03.700 --> 08:09.120 Sometimes it's just this feeling of being stuck and overwhelmed that you can't even focus on anything. 08:09.380 --> 08:14.520 And so because you've lost this ability to focus, you keep procrastinating. 08:14.520 --> 08:18.240 And sometimes you'll push out deadlines just because of it. 08:20.160 --> 08:25.700 But as we all know, burnout gives this feeling of fatigue or exhaustion. 08:25.700 --> 08:29.800 No matter how many hours of sleep that you get, it's just never enough. 08:29.800 --> 08:34.300 And this could be like nine or ten hours and it's just never enough. 08:34.420 --> 08:37.460 You just feel so, so tired. 08:38.300 --> 08:43.700 And you get kind of, sometimes people get foggy in a sense in their mind. 08:43.700 --> 08:46.320 So it's very hard for them to focus on other things. 08:47.460 --> 08:53.200 But the one thing to note is that when you're burned out, you just feel like, I just can't do this. 08:54.120 --> 09:00.100 If someone hands you another task, you're like, oh my God, I really can't handle this. 09:00.260 --> 09:01.280 I just can't. 09:01.280 --> 09:02.540 I can't do this. 09:02.560 --> 09:04.420 I'm not responding to that. 09:04.520 --> 09:06.160 I just can't do this. 09:06.160 --> 09:13.460 Which is a normal response when you're overwhelmed, especially with the world how we're in in 2020. 09:13.460 --> 09:18.120 It's like the most surreal year many of us have ever experienced. 09:18.240 --> 09:24.480 And so, yeah, we're going to be disorganized in our head because there's a lot of emotional stuff happening. 09:24.880 --> 09:27.620 And so burnout is not always about work. 09:27.620 --> 09:35.780 It could also be emotional burnout from what's happening in your life and not being able to feel like a sense of able to breathe. 09:35.780 --> 09:39.600 You just feel stuck and you don't know how to handle it. 09:39.780 --> 09:41.200 And it's overwhelming. 09:41.560 --> 09:43.280 I mean, we're all working from home. 09:43.280 --> 09:51.620 We're not able to go to bars and meet friends or go out for dinners or, you know, some people even have to cancel their wedding or postpone it. 09:52.280 --> 09:57.540 It's very different right now because we feel like we don't have control of our life. 09:58.160 --> 10:03.640 And I mean, it's a kind of a silly thing because we really don't have control of our life to a certain extent. 10:03.640 --> 10:08.820 I mean, but we have this ability to know that we're able to predict a little bit more. 10:09.100 --> 10:13.460 And now these days, we can only predict what's going to happen probably that day. 10:13.460 --> 10:26.680 It's very hard to be able to figure out, OK, so I could do this tomorrow or that next week because we don't even know what the situation is going to look like in the world in a day or two or a week. 10:26.680 --> 10:35.040 With the pandemic and also the political turmoil that's happening around the world, it's bringing things unease. 10:35.160 --> 10:38.960 And I want you to know that it's OK to not be OK. 10:39.200 --> 10:43.080 I don't think any one of us feels OK right now. 10:43.320 --> 10:53.500 And that's the thing we need to know is that, yes, burnout can be from work and everything, but it's also we're going through a lot as human beings right now. 10:55.300 --> 10:57.720 So we're going to talk about that. 10:57.960 --> 11:02.820 But the first thing to note is a very broad way of speaking about burnout. 11:02.820 --> 11:08.900 I want you to imagine that you're like some sort of device that hasn't been charged or it's at the very end of a charge. 11:09.460 --> 11:11.460 That's what burnout is like. 11:11.460 --> 11:17.340 It's like you are a device and your battery is just dying and been on red, I guess, for a while. 11:19.000 --> 11:24.520 But I want to let you guys know I am not a therapist, but I have dealt with burnout. 11:24.520 --> 11:28.360 I've dealt with some pretty bad burnouts in my lifetime. 11:28.460 --> 11:49.940 But the one thing I know for sure is that by working with therapists to try to promote mental health in the workplace for security teams all over, the one thing I actually know about is these are some primal ways how to prevent and how to help yourself if you're dealing with burnout right now. 11:50.380 --> 11:57.200 So I hope you take this as advice as a friend, not as a therapist, once again. 11:58.720 --> 12:02.440 But the first thing I want to let you know is that you should probably see a doctor. 12:02.440 --> 12:09.060 And the reason for that is sometimes burnout can cause from having low certain amounts of vitamins in your body. 12:09.060 --> 12:17.520 For example, if you're low in vitamin D or low in iron or vitamin Bs, you're going to have issues when it comes to focusing. 12:17.620 --> 12:24.040 So it's really important to get checked out by your doctor, making sure your vitals are all OK, because sometimes it's just that. 12:24.040 --> 12:28.680 Maybe you just have very low iron and by taking supplements, you start feeling better. 12:28.720 --> 12:30.540 So just keep that in mind. 12:30.540 --> 12:37.180 It's always good to just get checked out for that before you jump to if it's something also happening mentally. 12:37.180 --> 12:43.060 But you can still do all these steps I'm going to tell you about anyway, regardless. 12:43.060 --> 12:49.440 Actually, you should be practicing them right now because things are just amazing. 12:49.860 --> 12:51.360 OK, let's go. 12:51.480 --> 12:53.820 So what does burnout textbook definition is? 12:53.820 --> 12:59.800 Burnout is a state of emotional, physical, mental exhaustion caused by excessive prolonged stress. 12:59.800 --> 13:05.360 It occurs when you feel overwhelmed, emotionally drained and unable to meet constant demands. 13:05.360 --> 13:10.100 And yes, there is a quiz at the bottom there that you can go and do yourself. 13:10.100 --> 13:15.760 But I want to let you guys know that if you don't like your job, it's going to be great for you. 13:15.760 --> 13:19.560 If you love your job, it's not going to be as good for you. 13:19.700 --> 13:32.620 So those examples that I used at the very beginning of this talk, those you should use that as your guidelines to see whether or not you're starting to feel like you're in burnout or if you are burned out already. 13:34.420 --> 13:36.980 So we're going to talk first about how to prevent. 13:37.100 --> 13:42.340 Now, on the tips on how to prevent, you could do this anyway if you are already burned out. 13:42.340 --> 13:44.800 So this is really good for you to know. 13:44.860 --> 13:53.760 Now, the thing is, is that usually the recommendation is exercise, eat a balanced diet, practice good sleep habits, ask for help. 13:53.760 --> 13:55.820 But let's be real right now. 13:55.820 --> 14:00.920 Exercise, that's not a possibility maybe because gyms are all closed. 14:01.160 --> 14:04.640 And yeah, let's just start there. 14:05.040 --> 14:06.520 Eat a balanced diet. 14:06.520 --> 14:09.300 Yeah, it would be great if we could eat a balanced diet. 14:09.300 --> 14:20.360 But the one thing for sure I'll tell you about is how many trips to the grocery store can you go to without putting yourself at risk or your loved ones at risk. 14:20.360 --> 14:22.980 So it's a little bit harder to get all those things. 14:22.980 --> 14:28.660 Not just that, things tend to go quickly in the grocery stores these days as well. 14:29.040 --> 14:41.140 So what I mean by this eat a balanced diet, I want you more to be focused on what you are eating and what you're consuming when it comes to beverages. 14:41.920 --> 14:47.500 You know when you're a little bit more burned out is when you're taking in more caffeine than usual. 14:47.500 --> 14:48.880 So keep that in mind. 14:48.880 --> 14:57.660 So if you're reaching for more caffeine than the usual, please note that you probably are dealing with some burnout or you're overwhelmed or you're getting close to it. 14:57.880 --> 15:12.500 If you are reaching for more alcohol these days, please also make note of that because when people are burned out, they're more likely to drink more alcohol than they usually do. 15:12.500 --> 15:25.160 And that means also if you're on any drugs or anything like that, if you're reaching more for it or you never did it before and now you are, I think it's time for you to take a pause and reevaluate what's going on. 15:25.160 --> 15:36.260 Now the other thing about balanced diet is that when we are craving salty, sugary things, that's usually when we're trying to help ourselves emotionally deal with what's happening. 15:36.600 --> 15:39.920 So do keep an eye on your eating habits. 15:39.920 --> 15:53.280 So emotional burnout will do that to you where you'll just kind of like emotionally consume and many of us do it or some of us don't even eat while we're emotionally overwhelmed. 15:53.280 --> 15:55.980 So keep an eye on how you eat and your patterns. 15:55.980 --> 15:57.120 It's going to be really important. 15:57.120 --> 16:03.660 And if that means keeping a little note of things that you're eating, drinking and whatnot, and then comparing it later on, so be it. 16:03.660 --> 16:07.180 Just don't do the calorie thing because that becomes kind of unhealthy. 16:07.180 --> 16:08.720 So stay away from that. 16:08.720 --> 16:15.720 Now when it comes to practice good sleep habits, yes, it wouldn't be fantastic if we could sleep without insomnia. 16:16.700 --> 16:18.300 Good old days. 16:18.300 --> 16:31.900 But the thing is to be realistic with you is that sleep habits that are good is trying your best to kind of like, you know, stay away from your devices about an hour before bed can really help. 16:31.980 --> 16:39.580 But the other thing is, there are some techniques on how to prevent that will also help reduce your chances of having insomnia. 16:39.580 --> 16:45.800 So we'll be able to work through that together because I don't know about you, but the first couple months of the pandemic, I couldn't sleep. 16:45.800 --> 16:53.780 I was constantly worried that I would have it and I would get to my parents and I would lose my parents because of me. 16:53.780 --> 16:59.400 And so that was a really heavy weight and I couldn't really sleep for a good number of weeks. 16:59.400 --> 17:03.940 Because I would just wake up during the night, just all rattled up. 17:03.940 --> 17:06.820 And that's the reality. 17:07.040 --> 17:09.540 We're in a tricky situation, like I said. 17:09.540 --> 17:13.960 And so it's okay if you're not getting good sleep habits going on right now. 17:13.960 --> 17:15.200 It's understandable. 17:15.200 --> 17:17.660 Don't feel guilty about it. 17:17.660 --> 17:26.840 Because you're trying to figure out what's going on in the world in a very interesting time that many of us have never experienced before. 17:26.840 --> 17:34.040 So, you know, take a deep breath, appreciate yourself, because you're trying to do whatever you can to make you feel okay right now. 17:34.040 --> 17:37.660 And, you know, that's a good step forward, in my opinion. 17:37.880 --> 17:38.720 Ask for help. 17:38.720 --> 17:43.180 No matter what, whatever it is, ask for help is always important. 17:43.180 --> 17:46.820 So even in the middle of a pandemic, you can always ask for help. 17:46.900 --> 17:49.100 You just need to know who to go to. 17:49.460 --> 17:55.120 Anyway, let's go into what I think are probably the best steps forward on how to prevent. 17:55.840 --> 17:58.120 First things first, you got to be self-aware. 17:58.420 --> 18:02.720 You will not know if you're burned out unless you know you are burned out. 18:02.720 --> 18:09.900 Some people will come up to you and be like, hey, I noticed you used to have this type of behavior and now you're kind of switching things up. 18:10.840 --> 18:17.560 Try not to get to that point where someone's telling you what's going on and you, you should be able to know what's happening with you. 18:17.560 --> 18:19.660 And I'm going to teach you some of those ways. 18:19.660 --> 18:33.100 So first things first, if you notice in your inbox that it's taking longer to respond, please know you might be dealing with burnout and or you are getting close to being burned out. 18:33.400 --> 18:43.420 One of the best tricks that I can tell you about whether or not you are burned out is when you feel like your personal life and your work life are off balance. 18:43.420 --> 18:55.980 And so because of that, that's going to cause you to have issues when it comes to focusing, feeling like everything's a task around you, feeling overwhelmed, because you're also losing a part of yourself to in the middle of it. 18:55.980 --> 19:04.360 So it's really important to keep your work and personal life balanced in the middle of a pandemic, which is a lot easier to say than, you know, to do. 19:04.580 --> 19:10.260 For some of us, we have kids and that makes it really hard because they're always around and we don't get breaks. 19:10.260 --> 19:17.840 But the thing is just to be aware that you need to find a way how to have that work and personal life balance, even if you're working from home. 19:18.480 --> 19:21.620 So self-awareness is really important on that front. 19:21.620 --> 19:25.680 The other thing is just constantly feeling exhausted is another one. 19:25.680 --> 19:35.060 And seeing if your emotions go from like sudden sadness or anger, and you usually don't have those as much, that's going to be one of those things as well. 19:35.060 --> 19:38.120 So I hope those are some good takeaways. 19:38.120 --> 19:44.180 So if you just feel like something isn't right, it might be a good time to start doing these preventative techniques. 19:44.320 --> 19:49.980 Honestly, I feel like we should all be doing these techniques regardless, just to be on the safe side. 19:50.740 --> 19:57.620 But the first things first is having a self-awareness, it's hard, but there's ways how to learn out. 19:57.680 --> 20:00.840 I mean, and by learn out, I mean to learn about it. 20:00.840 --> 20:02.860 So what I do is I journal. 20:02.940 --> 20:05.560 Yes, my lovely Little Prince journal. 20:05.560 --> 20:10.660 If any of you guys are Little Prince fans, high five virtually. 20:12.320 --> 20:14.120 It's really important for you to journal. 20:14.120 --> 20:21.040 So one of the things that I realized is like by writing weekly or every day is as much as you can. 20:21.040 --> 20:27.320 Okay, don't put it like every day, I'm going to journal everything because the thing is, you might fail at that. 20:27.320 --> 20:30.060 And you don't want to feel like a failure right now either. 20:30.060 --> 20:33.120 So the thing is, be open about it. 20:33.120 --> 20:36.240 Be like, you know what, I feel like journaling today. 20:36.260 --> 20:37.620 If you do, then journal. 20:37.620 --> 20:39.200 If you don't, then don't. 20:39.200 --> 20:43.240 But the thing is, by journaling, you have a better idea of what's going on deep down inside. 20:43.240 --> 20:49.580 For example, once you write something, read it, see what you're talking about. 20:50.180 --> 21:02.060 And then what you should also do is look at your previous kind of journaling as well in your journal to see if there's any patterns that you're seeing. 21:02.060 --> 21:09.000 It's really important to see patterns because you'll start seeing what's going on deep down inside, this feeling of trappedness. 21:09.000 --> 21:15.460 If that's showing up in your writing, then that should let you know that you're feeling overwhelmed and pressure wise. 21:15.460 --> 21:24.100 The other thing that's really important about writing it versus typing it, it's because it's like a free flow. 21:24.100 --> 21:30.000 So you're able to actually really like just take everything out of your head onto a piece of paper. 21:30.000 --> 21:33.280 It's something that's very personalized too. 21:33.280 --> 21:37.320 So I really do recommend doing it by paper and pen if you can. 21:37.480 --> 21:39.900 If not, typing is totally okay. 21:39.900 --> 21:46.360 But I do recommend journaling as much as possible, but only do it when you're feeling comfortable doing so. 21:46.600 --> 21:52.580 And that's how you kind of get a better idea of what's going on deep down inside that you may not have known. 21:55.240 --> 22:01.520 As some of you guys know, I do take breaks from my devices and there's reasons for that. 22:01.520 --> 22:03.460 I do a device detox. 22:03.460 --> 22:05.120 I know it sounds very goop. 22:05.120 --> 22:07.460 I understand that and everything. 22:07.460 --> 22:09.700 But the thing is, it really does help. 22:09.740 --> 22:13.060 By taking a break from Twitter, it's amazing. 22:13.060 --> 22:15.260 I cannot tell you enough. 22:15.260 --> 22:20.080 Sometimes when you go on Twitter, you're just like, and everything is burning. 22:20.400 --> 22:21.440 Fantastic. 22:21.560 --> 22:27.800 So just know that for a fact that like taking time off from your devices is going to be really important. 22:27.800 --> 22:32.780 And I'm not suggesting you throwing any devices out the door or on the ground. 22:33.240 --> 22:38.280 I mean, believe me, there are times where I see tweets and I'm like, are you kidding me? 22:38.280 --> 22:43.080 And there is points where I feel like I want to throw something, but don't do it. 22:43.700 --> 22:47.240 So overall, take a break is really important. 22:47.240 --> 22:51.760 So you want to make sure that you take one day a week, a break from InfoSec. 22:51.760 --> 22:53.940 And you're like, wait, what? 22:53.960 --> 22:54.920 Yes, you need to. 22:54.920 --> 22:57.860 You need to take a day off every week. 22:57.860 --> 23:00.660 That's to do nothing that's InfoSec related. 23:00.660 --> 23:03.000 This is going to help rebalance yourself. 23:03.000 --> 23:08.060 Because the thing is, in InfoSec itself, we work 24-7. 23:08.280 --> 23:09.720 Security never sleeps. 23:09.720 --> 23:10.540 Come on. 23:10.560 --> 23:15.340 So the thing is, is that it's one type of industry that it's constantly working around the clock. 23:15.340 --> 23:18.900 Even if you're not supposedly working, you're still thinking about it. 23:18.900 --> 23:21.420 So the thing is, it's really important to take a break. 23:21.420 --> 23:23.760 So take one day a week of a break. 23:23.760 --> 23:28.580 And what I mean by that also is turn off your devices and get off social media for one day per week. 23:28.580 --> 23:33.620 And this could be anywhere from four hours to eight hours or beyond that. 23:33.620 --> 23:45.660 Now, when you do set up your break time every week, which I recommend the weekend, by the way, make sure to message your loved ones to let them know that you're going to be taking some time off from devices. 23:45.660 --> 23:48.760 And if they need to reach you, this is the way to do it. 23:48.920 --> 23:56.440 Just to know for them to know that you're okay, but also just in case of emergencies as well. 23:56.460 --> 23:58.600 So make sure you do that. 23:59.760 --> 24:05.020 The other thing, like I said, about journaling, you know, writing, it helps a lot. 24:05.160 --> 24:08.740 But having a to-do list is really important too. 24:08.740 --> 24:12.160 So what I do with my to-do list, I take it everywhere I go. 24:12.280 --> 24:16.280 And of course, I mean, taking it everywhere in my home because I can't go outside. 24:16.600 --> 24:20.940 So the thing is, is to keep your to-do list with you at all times. 24:21.880 --> 24:29.200 And when I mean that, I mean, like, have it by your bed when you're going to sleep, when you wake up, you know, bring it to the coffee table. 24:29.200 --> 24:31.800 I don't know, just bring it with you all the time. 24:31.800 --> 24:36.740 And the reason for that is because you need to find more space in your mind. 24:36.740 --> 24:42.520 And so the best way how to get more space in your mind and think about other things is to write it down. 24:42.600 --> 24:49.420 So for example, anything, task or assignment that you need to get done, writing it down will help you prioritize. 24:49.760 --> 24:53.960 But not just that, but it also allows you to feel like you can breathe a little bit more. 24:53.960 --> 24:57.980 This is a really good technique, especially if you're dealing with insomnia. 24:57.980 --> 25:05.060 And the reason for that is usually what happens is right when you're going to sleep, you know, you're kind of getting all cozy in bed. 25:05.060 --> 25:09.580 The next thing you know, your eyes are closing and you think you're about to go into your dreamland. 25:09.580 --> 25:13.940 But nope, what happens is, oh my God, I forgot to send that email. 25:14.220 --> 25:16.700 Or I forgot to do that task or that assignment. 25:16.700 --> 25:19.700 And oh my God, what should I write in that email? 25:19.700 --> 25:21.340 I have to write something in there. 25:21.340 --> 25:22.920 How would I word that? 25:22.920 --> 25:24.240 I need a word that. 25:24.520 --> 25:29.040 Or in the middle of the night, you wake up like, that is a fantastic idea. 25:29.060 --> 25:30.540 I need to do this idea. 25:30.540 --> 25:32.620 How am I going to do this idea? 25:32.620 --> 25:36.620 I wonder if this person would be good to help me on that idea. 25:37.160 --> 25:41.380 So the thing is, through my examples, I hope you've learned. 25:41.840 --> 25:53.760 Having a to-do list means when you have that come through your mind that you need to send that email or that idea comes to your mind in the middle of the night and now you can't sleep because you're thinking about it, write it down. 25:53.760 --> 25:55.900 And I don't mean your phone. 25:55.900 --> 25:58.260 Do not do it on your phone. 25:58.360 --> 26:07.560 And the reason for that is because what happens is every time we get on our phone to make a list or do anything on it, we start going on doing other things on our phone. 26:07.700 --> 26:11.220 And that's not going to help us when we need to go back to sleep. 26:11.220 --> 26:15.560 So the most important thing is have your to-do list with you all the time. 26:15.560 --> 26:20.900 Write down anything and then cross out anything that is not that you've completed. 26:21.040 --> 26:26.040 Now, yes, you can separate your work and your personal life on that to-do list. 26:26.040 --> 26:28.380 You can have two separate little books if you want. 26:28.380 --> 26:30.000 Whatever works best for you. 26:30.000 --> 26:33.980 Personally, for myself, I just keep them all on one sheet. 26:33.980 --> 26:40.140 And then I use a different color or I'll highlight for things that are personal versus work things. 26:40.140 --> 26:44.040 And this really helps me know all the projects that I've taken on. 26:44.080 --> 26:49.460 Now, the first time I started doing this assignment, it was about five pages long. 26:49.620 --> 26:57.500 So please know it's okay if you're feeling a little bit stressed out about writing this down because a part of you is like, Chloe, I can't do that. 26:57.500 --> 26:58.400 You have no idea. 26:58.400 --> 27:08.120 My anxiety is going to go through the roof because I'm doing so much and seeing all that is going to scare me and I'm not going to be able to sleep. 27:08.680 --> 27:10.880 So I'm someone who deals with anxiety. 27:10.880 --> 27:12.500 I'll be very honest with you. 27:12.720 --> 27:15.780 And yes, at first it was a little bit overwhelming. 27:15.820 --> 27:22.540 But then it also felt really relieving because suddenly I realized that I had more time to think about other things. 27:22.540 --> 27:29.420 Other things are more important than a task or an assignment and reminding myself over and over that I need to do those things. 27:29.420 --> 27:34.640 I had a time to actually think and have more self awareness of what was happening in my life. 27:34.800 --> 27:36.880 So I really do recommend writing it down. 27:36.880 --> 27:38.440 And yes, it could be overwhelming. 27:38.440 --> 27:43.620 But remember that thing I taught you at the very beginning, six breaths for a minute. 27:43.620 --> 27:45.040 That should help you too. 27:45.040 --> 27:47.980 If you're feeling a little overwhelmed, you know, do that. 27:47.980 --> 27:48.980 Close your eyes. 27:48.980 --> 28:01.000 Or one of the other things you can do is simply put it down, walk away, go for a walk in your home, listen to music, close the door, dance in your own room, do whatever. 28:01.000 --> 28:05.080 But the thing is, take a moment to pause and be like, okay. 28:05.420 --> 28:11.800 Now it's okay if it's overwhelming too, because it's also letting you know that you've taken on too much. 28:11.980 --> 28:17.940 And that was the one way that I knew that I knew I was doing a lot, but I didn't know I was doing a lot. 28:17.940 --> 28:28.320 And so that list really helped me readjust and start being able to see the trends that I'm doing that's putting myself at a burnout rate. 28:28.560 --> 28:31.300 So I really do recommend doing a to do list. 28:31.300 --> 28:33.100 It really does help you a lot. 28:33.100 --> 28:35.000 All right. 28:35.000 --> 28:38.560 Now, for managers, this is for you. 28:38.560 --> 28:41.700 If you're an employer or manager, we need to talk. 28:41.960 --> 28:53.880 I know that maybe some of you guys just don't like the idea of us working from home, even though it hasn't really been terrible in a sense. 28:53.880 --> 28:57.240 Like, didn't your employees do the work anyway? 28:57.240 --> 28:59.260 Yeah, they probably did. 28:59.440 --> 29:08.160 Because one of the things to note is trust is bilateral, meaning you need to trust your employees so your trust goes back and forth. 29:08.160 --> 29:13.560 And it's really important is to start building those relationships with your employees if you haven't. 29:13.560 --> 29:19.080 Because by having trust, you're going to be able to help each other out. 29:19.080 --> 29:22.320 Because let's be honest with each other. 29:22.640 --> 29:24.980 There's a lot going on in your life, too. 29:24.980 --> 29:27.540 And your employee is going through a lot, too. 29:27.540 --> 29:34.100 So it's really important is to set up these like one-on-ones weekly with each of your employees if you can. 29:34.620 --> 29:37.340 And you can make them 15 minutes or 30 minutes. 29:37.340 --> 29:46.540 But this is a good way to check in with each other and to dive into all the tasks and to work together to prioritize things in whatever order is more important. 29:46.540 --> 29:53.600 That really helps someone be able to be more organized and also know that there's some sort of collaboration. 29:53.600 --> 29:57.100 And collaboration is definitely key for good teamwork as well. 29:57.100 --> 30:00.340 So this helps with communication issues if necessary. 30:00.340 --> 30:02.140 So I do recommend doing that. 30:02.140 --> 30:12.220 Now, the other thing I'd also recommend is if you're an employer, I suggest you're doing a mental health day once a month and do it right around the weekend. 30:12.220 --> 30:14.380 And I know you're like, wait, but what does that mean? 30:14.380 --> 30:18.980 That means having everyone take a personal day. 30:18.980 --> 30:20.800 This could be a personal day of learning. 30:20.800 --> 30:23.120 This could be a personal day of catching up. 30:23.120 --> 30:24.260 It could be anything. 30:24.260 --> 30:29.360 But I do recommend doing something like this once a month because we're all going through a lot right now. 30:29.360 --> 30:36.620 And it might be really nice to show some appreciation by giving a day off on a Friday or a Monday. 30:36.720 --> 30:41.560 But the thing is, it's important to do that because people need breaks sometimes. 30:41.560 --> 30:44.480 And unfortunately, we don't get that many holidays. 30:44.520 --> 30:46.720 So it'd be nice for you to do that. 30:46.720 --> 31:04.900 Now, the other thing to note is if you're noticing people are not performing as their usual, meaning they're a little bit behind or they keep postponing things or they're not responding emails fast enough or their emotions are a little bit different than usually in the past, 31:04.900 --> 31:08.000 this is a good time to have those one-on-ones too. 31:08.000 --> 31:10.780 Don't let them go and be like they're being lazy. 31:10.780 --> 31:12.020 That's not what's going on. 31:12.020 --> 31:15.220 Chances are there's something going on in their personal life. 31:15.220 --> 31:17.940 So be a good boss and be there for them. 31:18.520 --> 31:23.600 And if possible, be open and transparent as well. 31:23.720 --> 31:33.320 If you're dealing with something horrible right now, you know, you don't have to talk about the specifics of it, but I do recommend being open with your team what's going on. 31:33.320 --> 31:36.960 It really does bring more respect. 31:37.280 --> 31:38.880 And respect goes both ways, right? 31:38.880 --> 31:49.320 So I just want you guys to know this is because the chances are you might be micromanaging or you're not understanding what is happening. 31:49.420 --> 32:01.220 And because of that, you might put your security team at risk or you might put your people at a moment where they're feeling burned out and getting even worse. 32:01.220 --> 32:11.420 And it's your job as a manager to want to see your employees or the people who report to you, whatever way you want to frame it. 32:11.540 --> 32:19.140 It's your job to want to have them go beyond you because that's when you know you're an amazing boss. 32:19.420 --> 32:24.940 So be a good manager and take the necessary steps to help your team. 32:24.940 --> 32:37.640 Now, the other thing to note about is I do recommend also putting one day per week for your team to have a no meetings day, meaning heads down kind of day where you do any catch up that you need to. 32:37.640 --> 32:40.340 And usually a Monday or Friday is usually the best for that. 32:40.340 --> 32:43.320 So I do recommend doing a weekly no meetings day. 32:43.440 --> 32:47.660 That really does help everyone on the team be able to play catch up. 32:47.780 --> 32:49.980 Okay, that's it on the manager side. 32:50.160 --> 32:52.160 Let's dive into more stuff. 32:52.160 --> 32:54.680 So how to bounce back. 32:54.680 --> 32:56.500 Let's go into this now. 32:56.580 --> 33:04.080 Now, one thing I want to point out is for some of you might be asking, what is the difference between burnout and stress? 33:04.080 --> 33:15.160 So stress is more like if I take a bubble bath or if I go to a spa for the day or I drink a glass of champagne or a couple glasses of wine, I'm going to feel pretty good. 33:15.160 --> 33:16.840 I'm going to feel pretty relaxed. 33:16.840 --> 33:19.420 And you know, I'll let the steam off and whatnot. 33:20.820 --> 33:22.160 Burnout is different. 33:22.160 --> 33:28.680 Burnout is I could do all of those things and it didn't do anything for me. 33:28.780 --> 33:30.760 That is the difference between burnout and stress. 33:30.760 --> 33:38.580 Stress is something that is, you know, a little bit more healthier in a sense that like if you do something here or there, it's going to make you feel a lot lighter. 33:38.580 --> 33:44.620 But burnout is no matter what you do, it doesn't seem like to be enough. 33:44.880 --> 33:47.980 So that's one thing to keep in perspective. 33:47.980 --> 33:54.480 Now, all those other things of preventative techniques, those are all work if you're already in burnout. 33:54.540 --> 34:00.720 But I'm going to talk about if you're already a burnout stage, what you need to do as soon as possible. 34:00.720 --> 34:02.540 Are you guys ready for this? 34:02.540 --> 34:03.900 Let's do this. 34:04.460 --> 34:05.640 Take time off. 34:05.700 --> 34:07.860 I know this like really short thing. 34:07.860 --> 34:12.600 But if you do one thing for yourself, if you're already burned out, take time off. 34:12.600 --> 34:15.040 And I don't mean, oh, a three day weekend. 34:15.040 --> 34:17.560 A three day weekend is not going to do anything for you. 34:17.560 --> 34:20.520 If you're burned out, you need at least three work days off. 34:20.520 --> 34:23.300 I recommend taking a whole week off. 34:23.300 --> 34:26.560 So, you know, from like weekend to weekend. 34:26.740 --> 34:31.360 And the reason for that is that's how you recharge your batteries is taking time off. 34:31.360 --> 34:34.020 And I know it's really scary to take time off. 34:34.020 --> 34:42.520 I am one of those people that didn't take time off for two and a half years and I had to do it in July because I needed to take some time off. 34:42.520 --> 34:49.040 But the thing that made me stress out the most was me taking time off means two things. 34:49.040 --> 34:57.000 One, I have to worry about my colleagues, making sure that they're able to stay afloat while I'm away. 34:57.260 --> 35:06.000 The second thing is what am I going to return to besides all the dumpster fires and emails and so on. 35:06.000 --> 35:08.000 So I'm going to give you some tips on this. 35:08.000 --> 35:17.380 First thing first, I hate to break it to you, but if you're burned out, you're probably not doing really good at doing your job right now as much as you wish that you were. 35:17.380 --> 35:25.880 When you're recharged, you're able to do way more type of work, you're more productive, you're more able to catch mistakes earlier on. 35:25.880 --> 35:29.340 So I really do recommend don't have that thought come through. 35:29.340 --> 35:31.440 You need to take time off. 35:31.520 --> 35:34.580 The second thing to note is taking time off. 35:34.580 --> 35:39.880 The other stress is returning to a huge flood of emails and being very far behind at work. 35:40.020 --> 35:42.340 So here are two suggestions I have for you. 35:42.340 --> 35:51.000 One is what your out of office message should probably be two days after you get back. 35:51.000 --> 35:58.720 So for example, like if I'm coming back on the first, I'm going to set it for letting people know I'm back on the third. 35:58.720 --> 36:09.580 So that gives me two days of secretly doing work without anyone knowing and not having to feel like I owe someone something right when I get back. 36:09.580 --> 36:10.760 That's one recommendation. 36:10.760 --> 36:21.380 Second recommendation I have for you is a block on your calendar, at least one or two days for when you return for no meetings at all. 36:21.460 --> 36:33.140 And when you get back on your first day, email your team members and ask what is a huge priority for you to do right away and let them let you know. 36:33.140 --> 36:37.280 So then you know what to prioritize and it's not just through emails. 36:37.280 --> 36:44.480 The other thing is to make sure that any messaging that happens while you're away, have it on one channel. 36:44.480 --> 36:45.080 That's right. 36:45.080 --> 36:51.620 You have Slack, you have other things and email, you have Signal, you have all these other great stuff. 36:51.620 --> 36:54.380 But in reality, you should just focus on one. 36:54.380 --> 37:02.460 So ask your teammates to on anything, any type of project, please just send it via email and to CCUNF. 37:02.460 --> 37:08.960 Don't rely on having to go through Slack and see all your messages because that's an additional stress. 37:08.960 --> 37:11.340 So I recommend just telling everyone to do email. 37:11.800 --> 37:19.320 Now the guilt about the team members, once again, you're not going to be a great team member if you're already burned out. 37:19.320 --> 37:21.000 I hate to tell you that. 37:21.000 --> 37:22.320 But it's the reality. 37:22.320 --> 37:26.080 When you're burned out, chances are you're going to postpone things. 37:26.080 --> 37:29.140 You're going to be not responding to emails anyway. 37:29.140 --> 37:31.440 So it's better to just take some time off. 37:31.440 --> 37:38.160 Now, if you're wondering, how do I even approach my manager about taking time off for my mental health? 37:38.520 --> 37:40.480 I recommend the following things. 37:40.580 --> 37:47.340 Hopefully you have a good relationship with your manager and you can be very transparent, set up a little one on one with him or her. 37:47.340 --> 37:56.500 But the thing you should also know is that if they don't do one on ones with you, set up a little 10 minute call with them. 37:56.500 --> 37:58.140 And you can do FaceTime. 37:58.140 --> 37:59.100 I recommend that. 37:59.100 --> 38:02.280 So then it's a person to person, face to face kind of thing. 38:02.400 --> 38:11.400 And let them know like, I'm feeling pretty overwhelmed with personal life and work life and I need to take some time off. 38:11.400 --> 38:14.040 These are the dates that I'm looking at. 38:14.040 --> 38:16.320 What do you seem to work best for you? 38:16.320 --> 38:18.660 Because I need to do this for myself. 38:19.000 --> 38:23.520 And it's also a way to, you know, be there for my team. 38:23.780 --> 38:30.780 Your manager will probably be not happy per se, but will be like, okay, you got it. 38:30.780 --> 38:46.200 Now, the thing to note is right after your meeting with them, make sure you send an email saying, thanks, whatever your boss's name, thanks for talking with me today and about my taking time off on the following dates. 38:46.780 --> 38:52.600 I appreciate you helping me in this moment. 38:52.600 --> 38:53.600 That's all. 38:53.600 --> 38:56.960 And the reason for that is you want to keep a paper trail, no matter what. 38:56.960 --> 39:03.380 So if the person ever did decide to put it in your face and be like, you took time off. 39:03.380 --> 39:06.280 No one takes time off here or anything like that. 39:06.280 --> 39:08.220 Or they just want to be a jerk. 39:08.220 --> 39:11.560 Just have your paper trail because it'll protect you. 39:11.900 --> 39:14.900 And yeah, and you always have that record. 39:14.900 --> 39:18.980 Also send that email for it to your personal email too. 39:18.980 --> 39:23.140 Keep two paper trails, personal email, work email. 39:23.900 --> 39:25.840 So that's one thing I have to tell you. 39:25.840 --> 39:33.240 And if you're a manager, please don't make them feel guilty because chances are they really do need to take that time off. 39:33.240 --> 39:37.180 It's already probably hard for them to even ask for taking time off. 39:37.180 --> 39:38.260 We do get guilty. 39:38.260 --> 39:40.600 We do feel guilty when we take time off. 39:40.600 --> 39:43.420 So please keep that in mind. 39:43.420 --> 39:45.400 Now remember three days, okay? 39:45.400 --> 39:47.340 You cannot do a three-day weekend. 39:47.340 --> 39:48.800 Three business days. 39:50.060 --> 39:51.360 Learn to say no. 39:51.360 --> 39:53.760 Remember that handy-dandy to-do list? 39:53.800 --> 40:00.460 Now this is probably when you first start it, you're like, oh my god, I've taken on way too much. 40:00.460 --> 40:02.220 It's time for you to start saying no. 40:02.220 --> 40:09.140 Because if you are a top performer, chances are they're going to ask you to do more work because you're so good at what you do. 40:09.140 --> 40:11.860 And they're like, oh, well, you can handle more of this. 40:11.860 --> 40:24.820 The other thing is you might find that not only if you're a top performer, but maybe if you're someone who's underrepresented, they see you wearing other hats on top of your job and will hand you over assignments. 40:24.900 --> 40:30.200 And I'm sorry to say you're probably going to get burned out way faster than you ever imagined. 40:30.200 --> 40:37.660 And the reality is, is that I had the hardest time ever to tell someone no, I cannot do that. 40:38.080 --> 40:48.500 And sometimes it was really hard because the whole thing is like, well, I don't want to, I don't want to hold back my team, but this isn't part of my job, but I will be there. 40:48.500 --> 40:50.860 I'll help catch, you know, everything. 40:50.860 --> 40:53.040 And I'm all about supporting team. 40:53.040 --> 40:58.160 But when it comes to your mental health, if you're not doing well, you should not be doing those things. 40:58.160 --> 40:59.980 You have to draw a line. 40:59.980 --> 41:04.020 And yes, your boss might get angry about it. 41:04.020 --> 41:11.080 But, you know, like I said, you also need to remind your boss what your job is and do it in email. 41:11.080 --> 41:15.520 Once again, keep a paper trail because you never know sometimes. 41:15.520 --> 41:18.360 That is the one thing I have learned in my career. 41:18.360 --> 41:19.620 Keep a paper trail. 41:19.620 --> 41:21.660 So make sure to say no. 41:21.660 --> 41:27.120 When you don't want to do it, or it's not part of your job, or you really can't handle it, say no. 41:27.120 --> 41:29.000 And it's okay to say no. 41:29.180 --> 41:30.380 That's the one thing. 41:30.380 --> 41:31.660 You're never going to be perfect. 41:31.660 --> 41:33.700 You're never going to be able to please anyone. 41:33.820 --> 41:42.740 If anything, you'll realize more and more in life that you really can't please every single person in your life, and not everyone's going to like you. 41:42.740 --> 41:44.040 And that's okay. 41:45.280 --> 41:46.580 That's okay. 41:49.620 --> 41:56.980 Another thing to know about burnout that you should know is that burnout happens when you're not investing in yourself. 41:57.020 --> 42:02.600 By not being able to say no, you're allowing someone to take advantage of you at times. 42:02.600 --> 42:10.120 And so it's really important to know where you're, basically, where your lines are being crossed. 42:10.220 --> 42:13.340 If it's not part of your job, you shouldn't have to do those things. 42:13.340 --> 42:18.700 But yes, being there for your team members is important, but there's also moments where you can't do that. 42:19.620 --> 42:21.140 So number one, to invest in yourself. 42:21.140 --> 42:28.180 Also, the whole takeaway of the preventative techniques was also for you to know that you need to have a life outside of InfoSec, too. 42:28.180 --> 42:32.860 And I know that's really, really hard being in the hacker world and everything like that. 42:32.860 --> 42:37.940 And trust me, I can only get one day off a week, maybe, if I'm lucky. 42:37.940 --> 42:40.640 But it's really important to invest in yourself. 42:40.640 --> 42:44.420 Spend some time on making you feel happy. 42:44.960 --> 42:47.960 Because life is about being happy. 42:47.960 --> 42:54.680 It's about doing the things that you want to do, but also to try to be there for others is important, too, as a human being. 42:54.680 --> 42:59.840 But you can't be there for another human being when you can't even be there for yourself. 42:59.840 --> 43:03.400 So it's really important for you to take the time to invest in yourself. 43:03.400 --> 43:06.700 Journal, paint, write, read a book. 43:06.700 --> 43:08.740 Hey, did you know there's a hacker book club? 43:08.740 --> 43:11.440 I know it's InfoSec related, but if you want, you can come and join us. 43:11.440 --> 43:14.180 But the thing is, is like invest in yourself. 43:14.460 --> 43:19.400 Find the things that make you happy, make you like passionate. 43:19.540 --> 43:23.880 And if you're not getting that at work, then maybe it's time to look elsewhere. 43:23.880 --> 43:32.200 And I know it's scary to look for a job in the middle of a pandemic, but the good news is that InfoSec, there's loads of jobs there for you. 43:32.200 --> 43:34.540 You just have to look and know where to look. 43:34.540 --> 43:43.380 And then also there are people in the network and the community that are more than willing to help you try to find something or hopefully open a door for you. 43:43.380 --> 43:52.780 So it's really important is take the time to invest in yourself, make things better for you by taking time off and spending time with you and yourself. 43:53.180 --> 44:00.760 Now, I do want to say that when you take time off for burnout, remember that whole thing, taking a break from devices and social media? 44:01.120 --> 44:13.360 I highly suggest you doing that too, because when you're taking time off, that means taking a break from your emails, from everything that's related to InfoSec and to be able to refocus on things that make you happy. 44:14.880 --> 44:29.720 And if that means rebuilding relationships with friends and family, that means doing so because probably at some point you started seeing them as tasks that you just couldn't handle the more of the weight and responsibilities that you already have in your life. 44:29.900 --> 44:32.680 So it's important to never feel trapped in your life. 44:32.680 --> 44:34.340 You shouldn't feel that way. 44:34.340 --> 44:37.760 If you do, it's time to reinvest in yourself. 44:37.760 --> 44:51.960 And if you're wondering what are things that make you happy, what are things that you do outside of InfoSec, make a T-chart and write InfoSec in one column and non-InfoSec in another column and circle the things that you love and that you miss that you haven't done for a while. 44:51.960 --> 44:53.860 That's a good way how to get started. 44:55.240 --> 45:00.280 But the main takeaways overwhelmingly are these following things. 45:00.280 --> 45:03.200 So when you feel overwhelmed, do a device detox. 45:03.200 --> 45:03.700 That's right. 45:03.700 --> 45:09.160 Take a day off from your devices and social media once a week. 45:09.160 --> 45:12.380 If that means you can only do four hours, then it's just four hours. 45:12.380 --> 45:16.960 But the thing is, take as many hours as you can for that one day per week. 45:16.960 --> 45:20.780 And I recommend everyone doing this right now, to be honest. 45:20.780 --> 45:23.440 When you feel overwhelmed, invest in yourself. 45:23.440 --> 45:27.180 Like I said, you have to invest in yourself to know what's going on. 45:27.180 --> 45:33.660 You need to have that self-awareness to take care of you because you can't rely on other people to take care of you sometimes. 45:33.660 --> 45:36.900 So it's important for you to find the ways to invest in yourself. 45:36.900 --> 45:39.300 When you feel overwhelmed, ask for help. 45:39.460 --> 45:43.500 Talk to your manager, ask your friends, your family, your colleagues. 45:43.500 --> 45:45.000 Ask for help. 45:45.000 --> 45:47.920 You should never feel shy to ask for help. 45:47.920 --> 45:52.340 This is the time where you need someone to be there for you. 45:52.360 --> 45:58.560 And there are plenty of organizations out there and people in the community that are willing to be there for you. 45:58.560 --> 46:00.320 You just have to ask. 46:00.320 --> 46:02.560 When you feel overwhelmed, write it down. 46:02.560 --> 46:03.660 That's right. 46:03.660 --> 46:05.200 Journal, to-do list. 46:05.200 --> 46:19.020 It's going to help free out your mind and so you're better to understand what you've signed up for, when enough is enough for you, what's the trends that are happening in your mind, and so on. 46:19.020 --> 46:21.320 It's very important for you to know those things. 46:21.320 --> 46:23.260 When you feel overwhelmed, take a break. 46:23.260 --> 46:23.840 That's right. 46:23.840 --> 46:27.600 Take one day per week to escape from InfoSec. 46:27.600 --> 46:33.760 And I recommend doing it on the same day as your device detox, to be honest, because then you get two things done in one day. 46:34.460 --> 46:41.700 But the thing is, if you're already burned out, make sure that you do more than three business days, remember. 46:41.720 --> 46:44.240 So weekend, three business days. 46:44.240 --> 46:46.660 So it gives you five days to recharge your batteries. 46:46.660 --> 46:53.080 And to be able to charge batteries, I want to reiterate, that means taking time away from devices and social media. 46:53.080 --> 46:56.200 When you feel overwhelmed, put yourself first. 46:56.200 --> 46:57.860 It is very important. 46:57.940 --> 47:01.760 You have to take care of yourself before you can take care of another person. 47:02.020 --> 47:04.940 It's, it's just, just do it. 47:04.940 --> 47:15.240 That is the one lesson that I've learned in life is that if you want to do a lot in the world, you need to also make sure that you're mentally okay to be able to do so. 47:15.240 --> 47:26.440 Because you'll be able to put in more energy, more of an effect in whatever you want to do to help others by being balanced yourself. 47:26.440 --> 47:27.940 It's very, very important. 47:27.940 --> 47:31.620 Burnout is all about the art of balance. 47:31.720 --> 47:33.960 When you feel overwhelmed, know you're not alone. 47:33.960 --> 47:36.540 Please know you are never alone in InfoSec. 47:36.540 --> 47:39.920 If you feel like that, there are so many organizations. 47:39.920 --> 47:41.940 DM me, I will refer you to people. 47:41.940 --> 47:43.920 But the thing is, never feel alone. 47:43.920 --> 47:45.420 No one should feel alone right now. 47:45.420 --> 47:48.060 And I know it's a crazy world and everything. 47:48.300 --> 47:52.400 But I send you virtual hugs or high fives, whatever you prefer. 47:52.600 --> 47:54.980 But please know you're never alone here. 47:54.980 --> 47:56.920 The community has you. 47:57.080 --> 48:00.980 I mean, if it wasn't for the community, I wouldn't be where I am today. 48:00.980 --> 48:07.380 And I've definitely had moments before I entered the InfoSec community where I felt isolated and alone. 48:07.380 --> 48:09.900 And I just want to let you know that you're not. 48:10.000 --> 48:21.780 And, you know, there's always people out there that are dealing with the same things as you are, or have gone through it and are able to be there for you and give advice and suggestions to help you out. 48:21.780 --> 48:25.720 So, like I said, that goes in hand with ask for help. 48:26.980 --> 48:35.000 But most importantly, the main takeaway to know whether or not you are burned out, always ask the question, am I balancing my work and personal life? 48:35.000 --> 48:39.120 If not, now you know the steps to fix it. 48:41.240 --> 48:43.040 And you got this. 48:43.040 --> 48:44.100 I believe in you. 48:44.100 --> 48:45.400 I kid you not. 48:45.400 --> 48:50.780 I had a burnout and I felt way better after taking time off. 48:50.980 --> 48:53.960 And I got to recharge my batteries and able to do everything. 48:53.960 --> 49:01.540 But it also made me realize what are the things I need to prioritize more in my life and to have a better sense of what makes me happy too. 49:01.540 --> 49:17.640 And having that balance of infosec life and personal life, it's hard to do in the hacker community, but it's so important for you to do that because that's the only way that we're going to grow as individuals and to be there and present for the world that we're in. 49:18.640 --> 49:24.480 And I just want to say thank you again to AppSec Village for having me and thank you all for existing. 49:24.480 --> 49:26.720 And I really hope that you all are staying safe. 49:26.720 --> 49:31.720 If you have any questions or anything like that, feel free to message me. 49:31.720 --> 49:33.300 Also, my DMs are open. 49:33.300 --> 49:40.340 So if you do feel like you want to have more of a private one-on-one without anyone knowing, feel free to message as well. 49:40.340 --> 49:44.560 I'm here for you and I hope to provide as much guidance as possible. 49:44.560 --> 49:49.980 But in the meantime, I just want to say thank you again and please stay safe. 49:49.980 --> 49:53.480 And I hope you enjoy the rest of your DEF CON experience this year. 49:53.480 --> 49:57.300 And I really hope that I get to see everyone next year in person. 49:57.380 --> 49:59.940 So let's just all hope for that as well. 49:59.940 --> 50:02.000 In the meantime, thank you guys for existing. 50:02.100 --> 50:08.300 And like I said, never hesitate to ask a question or to seek for help. 50:08.300 --> 50:10.980 There's always people there that want to help you. 50:10.980 --> 50:12.960 All right, and that is all. 50:12.960 --> 50:14.200 Thank you guys. 50:14.500 --> 50:15.720 I'll see you later.