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20170	24990	Welcome back to Hacking Career Village. It has been so great to listen to so many wonderful
24990	29890	presentations. We have people who are in various different stages of their career,
29890	35870	trying to figure out what to do next, if they want to do anything next. So I'm really excited
35870	43070	that Amelie Curran decided to present to us the idea of being a tech executive and then
43610	48410	coming from an individual contributor and then maybe going back again. So Amelie,
48410	51790	take us on your journey and give us your best insight.
52010	57890	Great. So yes, you guessed it. This is a Lord of the Rings hobbit-themed talk. While I'm not a
57890	61990	Tolkien nerd, I am a firm believer in the hero's journey of story and character development seen
61990	66950	in many forms of pop culture. My first ever keynote had a slide where I sufficiently stole
66950	71270	the story wheel from Dan Harmon and Jester Roiland's Rick and Morty, but I didn't really
71270	76890	tell anybody. For me, I'm 45 and I've had every job title and role I ever thought I wanted to have
76890	82090	and work to do by this point in my life. I count my blessings and consider myself lucky.
82290	87010	Along the way, I've had two marriages, several cats, a few cross-country moves, and even managed
87010	91450	to transition genders. I didn't just get my cake and eat it too, I demolished the entire fucking
91450	95990	bakery, croissants and all. But what does that mean to you, the lucky visitor to this digital
95990	100370	corner of the world and audience member for my talk? Well, I know plenty of you are at various
100370	104190	points along your life and career and I know no matter who you are, you're looking for answers
104190	108390	to burning questions and even though I'm here talking to you, I seek them out myself.
108790	113310	A brief background on me. My day job is essentially now that of a professional storyteller,
113310	118190	but in tech parlance, they call me a technology advocate and I work for Splunk as of December 2019.
118650	121810	Prior to that, I spent a little over a decade in public service for the federal government
121810	127790	as a contractor, member of technical staff of an FRDC, and over nine years as a federal employee
127790	132710	starting at the U.S. Department of the Interior, treasuring finally at HHS with a rotation working
132710	137990	cybersecurity and IT modernization policy at the White House. All before that, I left college with
138090	144210	a degree I was told that was useless in society as it stood, decision science, and started my career
144210	148550	as a user interface designer and most of my classmates went directly into tech consulting.
148550	153990	This was obvious during the dot-com boom and I decided to dot-com things just as it imploded.
154250	159010	Do not count on me for reading economic trends, friends. I moved up during that time to a systems
159010	163950	engineer and managed to get my first job involving security in 2000 and my first official title as
163950	168990	such in 2003 working for a power company as part of a two-person security engineering team for a
168990	175830	fortune 125 company. Ah yes, the good old days of slammer, hurricanes, and blackouts. During those
175830	180370	three formative years, I transitioned from an individual contributor on a team to somebody who
180370	185470	was leading teams of others. While the first team was small, about four people, when I left government
185470	191170	last year, I led about 150 people of both federal employees and contractors. This is not always a
191170	196190	growth curve and responsibility everybody here will desire, but some will. To each your own
196190	201830	on this journey and that's what I'm here to speak about today. Back in the day, I was all idealistic
201830	206430	thinking back to when I first was introduced to BBSs in the late 1980s and wondering that I may
206430	210530	have put my dreams of being an astronaut or veterinarian on hold for chasing down this
210530	215770	computer stuff. I mean, I doubt anybody then was going to expect we go from modems to high-speed
215770	220590	direct-to-the-home fiber optics in less than 20 years and what was the domain of kids in their
220590	224770	basements would end up being the most amazing invention of the 20th century or perhaps all of
224770	230970	mankind. I hit college with an idea that yes, this technology thing is something, but what do I want
230970	236250	to do? So I started as an electrical engineering and computer engineering major who sucked at coding
236250	241330	and wanted to do something more applied. At the time, computer security topics were just covered
241330	246370	undergraduate programs of which my work-study job supported, the Information Networking Institute.
246630	251250	I changed majors twice to basically survive, but I still wanted to seek applied computing,
251250	256670	basically how folks used what we now have. This is what I call the start of a career. Granted,
256670	260950	nowadays this is what can be had in high school, but then it's usually after an initial stint in
261050	265390	a post-secondary education, whether it be a four-year college or university or trade schools
265390	271350	or community colleges. What most of this progress process really teaches you is how to gather and
271350	275770	organize your knowledge and thoughts to manage output. Yes, learning particular point skills,
275770	279750	especially in security roles, is now available in what is typically makes up these degrees and
279750	283930	certification programs, but as somebody who's hired quite a bit over the years, I value how
283930	289870	people are curious and put their thoughts together. So starting out, unless you're literally starting
289870	293810	your own company, dropping into the family business, or get literally recruited to be
293810	298590	the manager or director out of college, well, commissioned military officers are a whole other
298590	303510	story, you're going to be joining an organization as an individual contributor. What that means is
303510	308450	that you were hired for an initial skill set an organization needed. This also doesn't mean that
308450	313870	this is all you will ever do. They expect you to learn and contribute, but typically in their way
313870	318570	of doing business aligned to their market or mission. This is not to say that this is not
318570	324470	useful or non-transferable. No, just the peculiarity of the business. Oddly, these business processes
324470	329510	and methods are often covered as trade secrets, and they do likely protect them. And many ways
329510	334190	of doing that is keeping employees happy and content. Again, if you see a lawsuit proposed by
334350	339390	a company because some high ranking or major category lead and left for another competitor,
339390	343450	the lawsuit is not just there to be officious, but they're protecting those trade secrets and
343450	349890	that that person may have. You are a valuable asset. Sadly, not all organizations see that worth
349890	355730	and treat you as such. For me, early in my career, I was trying to find that niche, and I'm sure many
355730	361270	of you or are still trying to find it. It may take a few places to figure that out, and fine,
361270	366310	especially in the security arena. You could start in a sock working crazy or shitty hours,
366310	372690	or make, like the variety, this could be your jam. Maybe pivot to IRIH work, then to forensics,
372690	378850	maybe RE. The amazing part, at least this career, is it's got a lot to explore. And as I noted prior,
378850	384850	if you're curious, it will serve you well. For me, as I started to think about leadership roles,
384850	389530	whether it be a line manager or all the way to wondering if I'd ever be a C-level tech exec,
389530	394530	I figured a broad background would serve me well. However, not everybody wants to move up
394530	398530	in management. But unfortunately, the tech sector is still grappling with how to manage highly
398530	403150	skilled and competent technical talent, and not to recognize that some wish to remain individual
403150	409310	specialists and contributors, and not be a team or group lead, or even an exec. Not every high
409310	413670	performer has the skills to lead people on projects. And it's another entirely different
413670	418810	skill set from one from core competencies for some specialists. And this is where we approach
418970	424350	a fork in the road. At the point at which the realization that you may or may not want to move
424350	428810	into leadership or management will usually occur between the times you're considered junior,
428810	432270	and where you can be considered a seasoned professional with a number of projects and
432270	437070	deliverables under your proverbial belt. I know the quandary that many folks in the security
437070	441330	community have when trying to sell the value of an information security program to non-technical
441330	446370	leaders and executives. It's selling the value of zero. I gave a talk on the concepts of zeros in
446370	451550	organizations a few years ago for all day DevOps. Most security work is to work towards zero
451550	456730	occurrence of an event or get close to zero, while many other roles seek to maximize your roles
456730	461990	than to minimize. This is also seen in safety roles. And similarly, public perceived value
461990	466490	is difficult to quantify and qualify because the lack of being in the news is beneficial.
466490	470870	This can strangely be seen by a challenge that healthcare and other public safety officials have
470870	476930	had to deal with during the pandemic. It's also hard to put a review that you've prevented a lot
476930	481270	of stuff from happening. Since documenting it proves challenging and having to quantify
481890	487310	what the impacts could have been in hypotheticals is a tough game to play and can lead folks to a
487310	492870	challenge. Challenging your estimates and hyperbole is really kind of a no-win situation.
493690	499490	So what are you to do to advance your career? Well, first off, don't get dismayed. The folks
499490	503090	who can see the value work rather than just tabulate numbers will be the places where you
503090	507490	want to work. However, those are a bit harder to come by, but things are getting better.
508750	514030	Another tactic is finding a raft of good peers. This is your fellowship. This doesn't mean that
514030	517950	you have to bounce onto a new role when they do, but this is some informal parallel between
517950	523950	mentorship and support. I've kept in touch with a lot of former co-workers and such both let them
523950	529770	hear to vent and like to hear from them and share my problems in kind. Share the challenges and
529770	535590	successes I've had as well as share in those in kind as well. Sometimes when you need a hand
535590	540530	sideways or a hand up they may be able to help you as well. This is more of an informal form
540530	545530	of networking but just as useful as more formalized online sites and professional networking groups.
546110	550910	So back to skills development for a moment. Say you're at three to five years in your
550910	556050	professional career and you're finally deciding that what you may want to specialize in. First
556050	562230	off I'm sure you'll like wait three to five years in? Yeah. Your first one to two years will
562230	566550	probably be figuring out how to work in an organization, feeling out what like the culture
566550	571430	is like, learning how to work within the processes and structure. I mean I had non-pro jobs while in
571430	575590	high school working at a convenience store and a pizza delivery which had their own rules and
575590	579350	culture but I wasn't anywhere to the point of calling them a career any more than they were
579350	584150	pickup jobs during my pre-adulthood. But the two to five years is where you start to build up that
584150	590150	launching pad of skills. The core knowledge you will expand upon. This doesn't need to be formalized
590150	594670	either. In fact my work as a hobby got me the practical skills that formed the basis for my
594670	599770	security career. All unpaid, all essentially unsponsored, but that extracurricular skills
599770	605830	development is useful. About the third year in your company if you are on that first or fifth
605830	611010	will have programs hopefully for training and other skills building. Take them up on those offers.
611010	615110	Those are usually the first to go when the budget belt tightening occurs unless it is literally
615110	620390	built into an audible benefit that they offer. When it's not formalized and I can tell you as
620510	624730	a manager for many years a good boss will fight to carve out training expenses for their teams
624730	630070	and see the value of professional development. I've gone to the carpet many many times to ensure
630070	634750	my team has had at least one to two training experiences even if some may be non-technical.
634790	640290	They can still network with peers. Fostering continuous education will be the greatest asset
640290	645230	to your career regardless of which path you choose to take. Realizing that skills are not
645230	649370	evergreen and require refreshing is another. Knowing that you will need to adapt to the
649370	653910	changing face of business and environments you will operate will ensure that you will continue
653910	658690	to be able to call a career as you inevitably age. But this isn't saying that you can't carve
658690	663110	out a corner and specialize but you have to ensure that you're also innovating in the right way and
663110	668270	being useful as a resource. As much as some cockles that get raised when somebody raises
668270	673790	the spectra of a rock star or a luminary, either they will be a momentary flash in the pan or they'll
673790	678410	be required to constantly reinvent themselves. Continuous learning ensures that you can always
678410	684450	build on what you have and not be that one-hit wonder or rock star. So let's broach the rock star
684450	689930	discussion for a moment. Like most rock stars it seems, and I've met a few, the actual musician
689930	694910	rock stars, they may lack a little bit in the soft skills department because they've often hyper
694910	698850	focused on the skills development of their core work but haven't worked on the soft skills that
698850	704870	make them interact with people as a human. There's plenty examples of those infosec rock stars being,
704870	710510	to put it lightly, assholes. Particularly to the new people in the career space. There are exceptions
710510	714530	and those are the good ones. They often forget that they were not all born with what they have
714530	719170	and remembering that helps you get a career progression. Ego is not something that people
719170	724510	will suffer well and it's easy to break. As I've said in other talks, when hiring people
724510	729310	I much prefer the reliable and skilled roadies and sidemen than the star or front men of a band
729310	734670	because they show up every day, do their job, and because their employment is based on how well they
734670	739910	do their job, usually have a vested interest in the outcomes. It's hard to think that some jobs
739910	745510	are so at will as such but the best combatant against that is being an exceptional contributor.
745730	750410	It's also a case of balancing and not getting abused by a boss or a peer and that's the next
750410	756330	piece in the career to plan for. Again, I've been in the show for over 20 years and I've had
756330	761410	the opportunity to walk away and to be honest, the idea has crossed my mind more than a few times.
761590	767190	Just light a match, burn it all down. The flip side of worrying about what's next is also
767190	772210	something that hangs over as a cloud. Often those thinking of making a radical change or a leap to
772210	776430	something different burn a candle at both ends. A day gig and then the build-up of the next thing,
776430	782770	be your own boss or a new venture. It's trying, it's stressful and it's not for everybody.
782770	787510	But this is another route to use your experience to be a leader. Even if the goal is to flesh out
787510	791950	and build out an idea with a goal of being later acquired, the opportunity exists to stretch your
791950	797190	legs and see if you can cut it. At best, you can go back to being an individual contributor,
797190	801990	go further into management or cash out and live other dreams. You're writing your own story.
802370	806050	So that's all well and good for those who are less risk averse. You mentioned that you were
806050	810370	all over the map. Yeah, I was. And it seemed like working for a lot of well-established
810370	815670	organizations, especially the government. What about that? Well, I'm glad you asked.
815690	819410	And to say that this wasn't a route I valued for my own needs would be disingenuous.
819430	823930	I had and still have a lot going on in my life where I value the rough sense of some bankable
823930	828750	security. Technically, public service is one of the few places that rarely sees layoffs. And if
828750	833070	they do a reduction in force, known in the private and public sector as a riff, there's a lot more
833070	838710	justification for seeing the door than on a whim, especially if you're a high performer. Safety,
838710	844150	or the perception of it, is a good thing if you're trying to do a lot. The fact that there's
844150	849330	something tangible and reliable there is good. This is why folks may call it the daily grind,
849330	853170	but it's what others will base an entire career doing, and it often affords them a lot of
853170	858170	intangibles. This is not to say a smaller company, startup, or even deciding to pull up roots and
858170	864110	become an expat or go on a sabbatical isn't going to offer benefits either. They will, but it's up
864110	871390	to you to evaluate what your needs are. Well, how do I evaluate my needs? This is essentially where
871390	876650	the rubber hits the road. This is where you need to do a little planning. This isn't locked in,
876650	881810	carved in stone, but an idea, given your experiences and desires and dreams, about where you want to be
881810	886970	or see yourself being in a few years. It can have a timeline or can just be an endpoint with no
886970	891230	planned speed. For me, I had hoped to possibly become a C-level techie and at some point in my
891230	895930	career I just wasn't expecting that opportunity, even if it was for a smaller org, by the time I
895930	900750	turned 45. Your timeline or desires may be different, possibly even fueled by your experience with
900750	906570	working for and with individuals you may have a role that you desire. This is where we get to the
906570	911930	one ring part of the story. Sometimes this overall exposure to what some can term the brass ring
911930	916890	can be toxic, much like Smeagol and Gollum, and the exposure to the dog-eat-dog boiling
916890	921510	crab pot of the corporate and even public sector world of ladder climbing can cause significant
921510	927270	change in who you may be. The desire for more, greater and perceived better, can change a person
927270	931910	if they drive themselves too hard thinking that the next rung is going to make them happy along
931910	938750	with perceived success. They will step and crush on whoever seems an impediment to that path,
938750	942550	break relationships and go through the world with a single-minded purpose at the expense of
942550	946690	nearly everything that doesn't generate forward movement. All I have to say is,
946690	952750	you can't take it with you. For a lot of us, and as I noted earlier, is that our curiosity fuels
952750	958150	our passions for this job or career that we chose to have. Nobody forced us into it. Well,
958150	962390	maybe a parent wondering if this is better than being a doctor. So we're here by our own free
962390	966570	will, so why not enjoy the journey? I mean, typically if you're working from the age of 18
966570	972210	to 20 to 65 to 67 years old, perhaps longer, that's 45 or so years of hopefully gainful
972210	976670	employment in doing something that you love to do. It's really not a dash and more hopefully
976870	981010	a leisurely stroll or hike, a marathon if you're really trying to torture the metaphor for the
981010	987070	runners. Smell the flowers, enjoy the scenery. Granted, there's some externalities here which I
987070	992230	may gloss over, which is the bias, even though illegal in many forms, towards race, gender,
992230	996470	sexuality, disability and other characteristics which really shouldn't have any bearing on how
996470	1001070	good you are for a given role or opportunity. This particularly comes in play for minorities
1001070	1007150	within a given field, whether it be gender, race, socioeconomic background, or LGBTQ status. And
1007150	1013030	when you stack them, it becomes even a bit more complex. And while I won't go into the discussion
1013030	1018150	about how much about diversity here, I want to make a point of the fact that this seriously
1018150	1022530	changes the calculus for many in their careers. And this is something serious to consider both as
1022530	1027250	one in the career and those who are in charge of hiring and leading those teams and efforts.
1027330	1031010	There are plenty of other better talks on this than I can give at this moment,
1031010	1034810	so I wanted to at least bring this up to your attention and note that this is still very much
1034930	1041110	a going concern. Once you've walked the path for a while here, looking at your preferred end role or
1041110	1047670	state, you're considered a senior level material. And this is what can be construed with a few more
1047670	1053970	lines and occasional less than natural colored hair of gray. Then you may get plucked to be asked
1053970	1059690	the question, would you like to be a manager? And this may give some folks pause. One, they didn't
1059690	1065870	ask to see the manager unless you're the person asking was a Chad or Karen, so double check. But
1065870	1070310	what they asked is, you have the possibility demonstrated enough leadership qualities in
1070310	1074830	order to be considered a good candidate, not just to be an individual contributor to a team or
1074830	1079610	project, but to actually lead it. Granted, you could be asked this sooner if you displayed an
1079610	1083890	early aptitude for it. But usually after you found your way with what you want to do, got the ropes
1083890	1088610	of an organization or two, and I've had some history to point on for some successes and yes,
1088610	1095770	failures. For some, this comes with an exclamation of cool, or awesome, or even maybe a dance in your
1095770	1101830	cube. Others, it may be an oh shit moment. Because this potentially ends the comfort of isolation
1101830	1106090	or just being part of a team, or better yet, not being responsible for anything other than your own
1106090	1110990	work. However, for those that are in the crux of this decision point, there's hope if you play it
1110990	1116050	right. Some come to this point worrying if they will be able to maintain their technical focus
1116050	1121270	and chops if they decide to become a leader or manager. The short answer is yes, but it comes
1121270	1126370	with some caveats. The further you move up the leadership chain, the more divorced by design you
1126370	1131610	will become from the day-to-day minutia. If you think you can go back and pull every oar and steer
1131610	1136870	every rudder of your fleet of ships, disabuse yourself of that idea entirely. The same aspects
1136870	1142810	of managers you hated who may have been dictatorial or micromanaging in their roles, you just adopt it.
1142810	1147670	Just don't. Your job is to find and raise up trusted lieutenants, and by that I don't mean
1147670	1152110	sycophants, but find the right talent to raise up and effectively fill the gap you and others may
1152110	1156610	leave when they progress to the professional development life cycle.
1157810	1162010	Essentially, you also inherit the role of talent scout, and when I mentioned before about taking
1162010	1166390	advantage of training opportunities you had early on to keep you sharp, you are now directing that
1166390	1171070	role, so I hope you learned something then. This doesn't sound like maintaining my technical job,
1171070	1176250	she's saying, but you're just leveling up. I know folks like to code, work hands-on with hardware,
1176250	1181570	and so forth. I get it, I miss the chase of IRIH work and building up a network of network defense
1181570	1186130	systems. However, I feel that the benefit from being a senior level individual is the experience
1186130	1191070	and lessons learned that you can impart to others. My own jump from engineer to architect
1191070	1195750	worked that way as it gave me a broader view of the mission and business we were doing. I got to
1195750	1199930	work with a lot of other people with other skills and help bridge the gaps in understanding and
1199930	1205190	communication across various teams and business units. The key point is not to be cynical about
1205190	1210550	the fact that you're possibly now in charge and that as much as all the crap that may roll up to
1210550	1214970	you, the accolades may also be the first to hit you. How you balance it is where you start to
1214970	1219630	succeed as a leader. This is about the time where I started to broaden out my own background.
1219630	1224050	As I noted, I did the system engineering and started into architecture, but I also started
1224050	1227790	into compliance policy work. I figured if the compliance people were going to grade me on my
1227790	1232190	engineering and architecture skills, it may be about time for me to walk a mile or so in their
1232190	1236590	shoes. It gets you to re-examine your approaches and how and why you do your work. And because it's
1236690	1239910	a different layer and working with different types of people, it delivers some skills you
1239910	1244950	wouldn't normally get if you hyper-specialized. As much as folks will push the red, blue, and purple
1244950	1249210	team and any other color that's in vogue right now as a way to run multiple angles of learning
1249210	1254310	about offensive and defensive sides of operational security, the policy arena is also a way to take
1254310	1259030	the tabletop or live fire aspects to another level. I know many will think that policy is
1259030	1263810	merely just coming up with ways to be more efficient. However, a good policy people will
1263810	1267670	examine things from every angle they can, thinking about scenarios the same way a defensive or
1267670	1273690	offensive team would, to ensure it's the best way to apply and govern a policy. In other cases, you,
1273690	1278470	if you end up doing policy work, may be on the front lines of a new technology proposal or action
1278470	1283270	or other event and need to quickly react and develop a working framework for how to handle
1283270	1288210	everything. It requires a nimble mind with a deep background and experience in the topics of policy
1288210	1293910	is to cover, and then some. You'd be surprised, but some of those policy wonks are pretty awesome
1293910	1299230	people and really interesting way to expand their applied skills when you may feel a little bit of
1299230	1303810	techie burnout. Given all of this, you'd think you'd be nearing an end, and yeah, it's kind of
1303810	1308610	near there. By this point, you probably have touched about every little aspect of this career
1308610	1313010	space and even getting to speak at conferences like this and others, potential volunteering and
1313010	1318830	giving a little back, but you're now about to decide, do I stay or do I go? And by that, I mean
1318830	1324450	being a leader is a lot of work, a lot of paperwork, emotional labor, and a lot of time. You need to
1324450	1328810	essentially still find those balance points in order to not burn or flame out. Say you've been
1328890	1333430	a senior leader for a time, it's okay to go back to an individual contributor role like from when
1333430	1339310	you started. The answer is a resounding yes. In fact, it should almost be standard practice. For me, I'd
1339310	1344170	been a manager again for about five years before I realized I needed a break from the stress and
1344170	1349630	the politics. That stuff I mentioned before, especially the emotional labor, will wreck you if
1349630	1355270	you give a hoot about your staff and your work. I know a lot of folks will say to try to separate
1355270	1359990	work from the people, but when you're doing things that has a good mission and a potential,
1360430	1365690	it's a very hard thing to do, even when you think you can easily do it. As a leader, the relationships
1365690	1370530	you developed are useful in order to get things done, but as part of building trust, people will
1370530	1376910	open up to you and get invested. In a way, you can say that this is the I care too much issue, but it
1376910	1382270	happens. Then again, besides all that, you may want to take a break, try something new, that continuous
1382270	1386710	learning stuff, and build a skill set that you don't have or feel you may need to advance even
1386710	1392170	further if you are a senior leader or executive. For me, when I started as a deputy CIO for a federal
1392170	1396810	agency component, I was thrown into areas I had no formal training in, including budgeting, human
1396810	1401830	resources, and more formalized project management. I had people who had PMP certifications working for
1401830	1406150	me. I ended up hiring a budget officer to help with our budget management and procurements and
1406150	1411430	contracts. Well, this may sound like a cop-out as to why don't you do it yourself? Well, the answer
1411430	1415950	is I try. I worked with these folks, but I also knew that they knew way more than me and did a
1415950	1420150	better job of it. This is the sign of a good leader, which is to know where your expertise
1420150	1426270	and quality ends and somebody else's begins. It's not ego. In fact, it's humbling.
1426270	1431850	Know when to ask for help. Know when to delegate. Know when to hold them. Know when to fold them.
1431850	1437130	It's an important skill that many CTOs, CIOs, and CISOs I know definitely do not do, but could also
1437130	1440870	ease their lives if they admitted that they can't do it all. This is a bit of the Type A
1440870	1445070	control freak personality type that draws some people to leadership, but they will also fizzle
1445070	1450570	out over time or move on and create a potential other disaster. As I moved on, I realized I needed
1450570	1454330	to learn better communication skills. The last few positions I had for the federal government had
1454330	1459870	yearly reviews that constantly harped on this. I was also always eager to go and speak, work on
1459870	1464970	those skills in a more public forum. You obviously hear me here and see me now, so part of this is
1464970	1470270	working out. However, one of these experiences I didn't have in my career, and especially in a
1470270	1474470	particular sector, was working for a vendor. And as such, in a role that is now strangely
1474470	1479330	considered part of marketing, is that of an advocate. Now, many will look at such roles
1479330	1483910	and think, well, that's just a pitch man or pitch woman, and it's no better than sales,
1483910	1488250	but it's really not. In fact, many of the senior folks here, goons, speakers, and such,
1488250	1492170	actually have roles similar to mine. It's an educational role as much as a customer-facing
1492170	1496310	and interaction role that not only requires being able to speak intelligently about a topic,
1496310	1501670	but also listening. Listening is a very underutilized skill among techies at times.
1501970	1506310	Obviously, you're here and listening to me, but actively listening in order to synthesize a useful
1506310	1510890	interaction with a customer or teammate or executive is a very useful skill to develop.
1511070	1515730	Much like critical thinking is as much an innate skill for people and important in navigating
1515910	1519030	a career development, the refinement of communication and listening skills are the
1519030	1523910	ones that will mature over time as well. As an advocate, I get to touch many parts of our
1523910	1528490	organization. I get to develop strategies for all sorts of things for a very broad viewpoint,
1528490	1533350	but also get to dig into some passion areas. It's outward and inward facing. If it wasn't
1533350	1536330	for the pandemic, I'd have been on the road for a significant part of the time,
1536330	1540410	which is something new and interesting for me. I can freely admit that some of it was
1540410	1543890	possibly to build up some frequent flyer and hotel points for eventual time off,
1543890	1548590	but those are some things, the fringe items you consider when making changes like that.
1548590	1552150	I'm about eight months into slipping back into individual contributor role. It's drastically
1552150	1556370	different from my prior C-level role, but also somewhat similar because I'm looking at interactions
1556370	1560590	with people at my former level from a different perspective. Conversely, I'm getting time to
1560590	1565230	explore a few things I wasn't allowed to do or have the time or resources to pursue. There's a
1565230	1569490	lot of these considerations for changes. My boss says, be comfortable being uncomfortable, which
1569490	1573770	is actually a really good bit of guidance. We are typically kind of risk adverse in our roles
1573770	1577590	and lives, and we value the basic needs of housing, food, and sleep, maybe a good hot
1577590	1582230	shower on occasion. So we tend to sit there until we have to move. This is a skill while
1582230	1586870	you have your day-to-day is encouraging to walk the knife edge and explore new things and new
1586870	1592090	ways of looking at it. To be honest, it's one of the best moves I've made. However, my desire is
1592090	1596530	still to go back into leadership. I figure that the skills I develop here will support what it
1596530	1601090	needed to be to be a more effective executive when I hopefully return to those ranks, or with
1601090	1604770	the time and experience afforded to me to do something different from my day-to-day, possibly
1604770	1609470	strike out on my own and start something new. I already did my own hobby-like startup for a
1609470	1614130	decade and a half, and it ended up in the black, barely, and was sold when I lost the time to
1614130	1618490	actively participate in a way that I wanted. If I start my own thing, it will be from skills acquired
1618490	1623290	through doing everything. I think it's the best kind of skill sets to do this. It will help me
1623290	1628290	with those I plan to hire, as well as learn what I need to take to make it in the marketplace.
1628290	1632050	I'd have the budget, purchasing, management, sales and marketing, development, engineering,
1632050	1635930	policy, and even some legal background in order to make a good go at it. The path is
1635930	1641670	mine and yours to choose. This is the journey. This is your quest. Good luck and best wishes.
1641670	1646390	Again, thanks to DEF CON, the new Career Hacking Village, and the staff and volunteers who helped
1646390	1652330	with all of this. Such an amazing story. Really great inspiration. Thank you so much, Amelie,
1652330	1659430	for sharing your story and your tips on how people can get from individual contributor to leader to
1659430	1665830	individual career contributor, but also making sure that they're getting a fulfilled life and a
1665830	1668210	life that they can give back. Thank you so much.