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5250	11830	So welcome back to the Career Hacking Village. One thing that's always interesting in our
11830	18510	community is that we tend to think that recruiters are evil and they're not human
18510	26650	and they don't know what they're talking about. So I decided to bring a few of my friends together
26650	33970	for some drinks and we're going to talk about finding jobs in this community and also just sort
33970	42110	of what is the human side of a recruiter. So I'm going to start off. You guys can't see the
42110	47370	gallery screen because I'm just going to keep the speaker view but pass it on over to everyone. I'm
47370	53730	going to have my friend Pete with his Iron Maiden shirt on to tell me about what he recruits for
53730	61190	and what he's drinking. Yeah, thanks. So I'm Pete. I am a senior recruiter at AWS.
61830	68710	Most of what I focus on there is primarily high-level architecture for distributed systems,
68710	73030	software as a service, anything that has to do with the cloud that's not the kind of pure
73030	80410	infrastructure side of the house. And I am drinking, as always, at about this time on Fridays,
80690	87310	a Manhattan with an extra splash of cherry juice, which is sort of my signature exclamation point
87310	93930	on my drink. Sounds great. And I'm going to invite our Southern Belle, Rachel Bozeman,
93930	100150	to share with us what she's doing and what she's drinking. Absolutely. So I get to help manage our
100150	105890	talent acquisition program. So we support at CenturyLink. We're hiring everything from finance
105890	113990	into the nitty-gritty. You name it, we're probably hiring for it. So I am drinking a red wine. One,
113990	118270	because they say it's good for your heart. And two, because I'm normally a redhead,
118270	122450	and I just feel like it's a good vibe. So cheers.
123870	131490	And next we have Matt Duran, who has been my B-Sides buddy for seven, eight years now. He was
131490	138670	the only person I knew at a B-Sides. It took me under his wing and made sure that no one accosted
138670	145690	me at my first B-Sides Las Vegas. We've been the bane of each other's existence and good friends
145690	151730	ever since. So Matt, what do you recruit for and what are you drinking? Well, not only that,
151730	157870	I just wanted to make sure you didn't get kicked out because they thought you were going to arrest
157870	163390	them because you were a cop. You look like an undercover cop. One of these things just doesn't
163390	168190	belong, right? No, I'm kidding. Everything belongs at B-Sides and in this community. So
169270	174390	thanks for having me. My name is Matt Duran. I'm a Senior Manager of Talent Acquisition at
174390	180010	Tenable. And I also handle a lot of our employment branding and recruitment marketing type stuff too.
180310	185870	But things that I recruit on or my team recruits for is everything from our platform software
185870	193090	engineers, so cloud-based stuff, but also on-prem, building on-prem devices. If you've ever heard of
193090	199630	Nessus, we build that security center and things like that. Also our researchers, our zero-day
199630	207110	stuff, our plug-in writers, things of that nature, back office IT, even our technical support team as
207110	216210	well, just to name a few things. And I am drinking out of my Star Wars glass there. It's a little
216210	223790	Death Star. I'm drinking an old Forrester 1910. It's a very good one. Why I chose that one is
224450	233390	it's affordable and it's not an everyday drinker, but it tastes good, neat, and that's how I take
233390	241110	my whiskey. So that's me. And that's one thing that I have yet to do is learn how to drink whiskey,
241110	249370	even though everyone around me drinks whiskey. So when I was at that first B-Sides Las Vegas,
249370	254510	first Hacker Summer Camp about seven, eight years ago, ten years ago, someone said earlier today
254510	261230	that was ten years ago, and I know that wasn't the case. I met this guy with this really cool accent
261910	269290	and I invited him to come and be on a panel along with Matt. So Chris Rides, thank you for being on
269290	273790	the journey with me throughout all of the B-Sides. What are you recruiting for and what are you
273790	281590	drinking? Thanks Kathleen. So I've got a cyber security staff in a professional services company,
281590	288570	Tyro Security. So we staff just cyber security. So I've got a team of people and they focus only in
288570	294170	that area. In terms of what I'm drinking, you guys were talking about whiskey. I was this close
294170	299530	to grabbing, I like Woodford Reserve is my go-to bourbon and I was this close to going for a nice
299530	305390	Woodford. But then it was so sunny out here and I thought I'd do this on my balcony that I went
305390	309890	down to the farmer's market this morning and got this amazing blood orange juice. Goes great with
309890	317730	some vodka. That sounds fancy. Goes with that whole decor in the background there, man. It does,
317730	323590	doesn't it, right? You're in a cabana somewhere in Hawaii, don't lie to us. I wish, I really wish.
323590	329330	You need an umbrella in there to really just set it off. Yeah, and a cherry on top or something.
329330	337070	Yeah, well, he's trying to still sort of do the bachelor thing, even though he's a new dad. So
337070	353570	I'm going to give him grief about trying to do all that. And me, I'm drinking my red wine. I'm
353570	362830	drinking it out of my crystal glasses from a little crystal blower up in Halifax, Nova Scotia.
362830	368130	I have a family run. They went out of business and then a woman came along and said, this needs to
368130	375670	be saved. So I am very proud to drink from her glasses. Anyways, so we're all drinking. We're
375670	379610	all having a good time. We're all human beings. I'm going to throw a question out that no one's
379610	387450	been prepared for. So Matt, how has recruiting changed since the pandemic came around?
388410	397330	Wow. So I think there's a few things. One, I think the pool got a little bit bigger, right?
397330	403410	I mean, the Canada pool and the ability to reach out to somebody and have them respond to that
403410	408870	fairly quickly. But I think a lot of the companies out there that, you know, like a LinkedIn or
408870	416530	something, they've allowed you to put that open to work on your profile. So it's not as hidden
416530	422890	as it once was. It's plain as day right there on the screen and allows folks to know who's really
422890	429230	looking. And a second thing, and hopefully I'm not taking somebody else's answer, is I think the
430450	437870	understanding of why somebody was let go and no longer working, it's kind of hard to argue these
437870	443330	days. In the past, it's always been a bit of a red mark on somebody. You were laid off, so you had
443330	449290	to have been on the lower echelon of the team. I think that's kind of been myth-busting.
450290	456950	So Rachel, for a big firm like CenturyLink, you know, obviously you were always ramping up for
456950	463290	projects and stuff. What's going on now for you? Are you slowing down or ramping up?
463290	468530	A little bit of both in there. And I would agree with what Matt shared. I mean, the pools have
468530	475310	gotten bigger, but I've definitely had to seek some guidance and some help. My feelings have
475310	480930	been a little hurt as of late. So while the pools are bigger, we're getting ghosted a lot as well.
480930	486650	So we've seen an uptick of folks that are applying with really no intent to follow through. So we've
486650	491290	been trying to make a lot of friends that really don't want to be friends. So it's added that
491290	496650	complexity of just trying to really find the ones that are genuinely looking for work and
496650	504130	not just applying just because it's the Vogue thing to do. So... And Pete, you've got, you know,
504690	510970	a lot of ramping up going on with AWS and Amazon and... Everybody needs the cloud.
511050	516650	Everyone needs the cloud. So, you know, how have you changed your strategies
516650	521550	and what are you seeing different in the field right now?
521550	527670	Yeah. So my search strategy has completely changed. There are no more city parameters
527670	534930	on my searches. It's wherever I can find a good engineer at that level, I'm going to continue to
534930	541250	do that. But I think that the most market thing I've seen is, and I've been banging the drum for
541250	547990	10 years on this, that it's an engineering gig. Have code, we'll travel. You do not need to sit
547990	556170	next to 10 people in an office to write fantastic code. And it's taken a global pandemic for people
556170	560030	to go, oh my gosh, this code's still good, even though this person wrote it in their basement
560030	565070	wearing their pajamas. We have finally started to come around to the fact this is going to be
565190	570070	a tipping point, I think, of companies saying, you know what? We actually can have remote workers.
570790	575610	Maybe you can be a little more competitive on pay when you're not spending it on
576450	578550	buildings to house all these people.
581150	585630	So Chris, what's going on for you? So you're a little different. You're
585630	593410	helping companies, you're supporting as a service. What's going on in the staffing firms these days?
593530	599330	Yeah, it's been interesting. I think initially there was, specifically within cybersecurity,
599330	605350	an assumption with some companies that the pool was going to get much bigger and that the skills
605350	611310	gap was almost going to be bridged. And I think what they've realized is the areas and the
611310	616790	industries that were really affected, like the airlines, the cruise lines, people that did make
616790	622150	big layoffs and had to lay off their cybersecurity people, they got snapped up really quickly and
622150	628810	they were in huge demand, multiple offers. And so we've actually built a lot more new clients. We've
628810	634850	had a lot of new clients come to us asking us to help them fill their positions. The thing we're
634850	641370	seeing is some companies are really struggling with... it's taking them time to get their interview
641370	645850	process down remotely. It's taking them time worrying about how are we going to... all of a
645850	650170	sudden we're going to have to onboard some of these people and how are we going to onboard them?
650170	656370	And so it's almost like slowing down a lot of the parts of the process. So it's been an
656370	662930	interesting change. The demand is still there and candidates are... I think Rachel talks about
662930	669010	ghosting, that the candidates are in this strange situation where they might see a few people leave
669010	672270	and they start getting worried. So they start talking and then they don't want to... they're
672270	676990	worried about moving and being the last person in, you know, and the first person out if something
676990	682630	changes. So it's a bit of an unknown. It's still a strange situation at the moment.
684390	691790	Great. So one of the things that we wanted to share is sort of the back-end irreverence, the
691790	698310	worst case scenarios that, you know, a lot of us have seen when we've been talking to job seekers.
698310	705510	And one of the panelists submitted this question. What is the worst email address you have ever
705510	712230	seen? Chris? Oh boy, I can't believe you came to me first. I was trying to think... I was trying
712230	720070	to think of a specific one. I've seen ones with political references in them and religious
720070	724370	references in them, neither of which I think is particularly good when you're applying to jobs
724370	728270	and using that email address. I don't think I've seen anything... I don't think I've got any funny
728270	733570	email stories. Of all the stories I've got, I don't think I've got any funny email ones, to be honest.
733570	738850	I don't think... I can't think of any in particular. Maybe talk to the others and I'll continue to
738850	745990	think a little bit about that. So the one that I've seen a lot is my spam folder.
747090	753730	I've seen those, yeah. I've seen that one. So Rachel, have you seen any funny...
755130	761870	I do work in the South, so if we do one thing well, it's let's screw up email addresses.
762230	768350	And so this particular one, and I remember it so clearly because I took pictures of it and sent it
768350	775610	to everybody I knew, thinking who in the Hades would send this out, but it was Igetdown69
775610	784130	at gmail.com. Super classy, and they're free, so please create a free one. You know, Yahoo,
784130	791690	Ymail, Gmail. I mean, go big, but don't... yeah, don't get down on your resume with an email.
791690	799850	It still lives in infamy. I'm gonna borrow your story. Your story's not my story.
799850	808030	Yeah, absolutely. But I get a lot of big mamas, hot mamas, sexy lady, you know, a lot of those
808030	814350	where I'm like, again, they're free. You can just do firstname.lastname at Gmail. It's free,
814350	822870	it's free all day, every day. And in that case, you don't have to be, you know,
822870	831750	whatever that was, 69-1 or 69-2. So if I see it, I know you've attended and we'll talk.
832170	835450	I get down 69.job search.
839270	842690	You said it was okay to share that story, right?
842690	848090	Yeah. That'll probably be the tamest story that conference sees.
848090	850170	I didn't want to break the ice too bad.
852530	854530	So Pete, you got one?
854610	860570	Oh, yeah. I will never forget one of the last agency resumes I got when I was still on the
860570	869310	agency side of the house was captainbrowneyeatyahoo.com. I will never, for as many
869310	872670	days as I'm left on this planet, I will never forget that email address.
873050	876150	I'm a little jealous that I can't steal it for my own personal use,
876150	878130	but it was pretty great to see on a resume.
880870	884950	So Chris, I'm going to say, I don't think you can pass these up. Can you?
885030	889770	No chance. These are my stories. I'm taking these now. I'm sorry.
890950	894230	You're going to become like, I'm going to be on one of these and they're going to say,
894230	898710	have you got an email address? And I'll say, actually somebody I know. And that'll be you guys.
899450	900050	Yep.
900050	904930	Let me write that down. Captainbrowneyeatyahoo.com.
905190	910410	It may have been an excite.com domain, so it's probably available again.
911150	912170	Juno.
912590	921250	Juno. Myspace. Maybe that's still around. I don't know. So another great question that we had was,
921250	927610	what is the weirdest LinkedIn request for connections that you've ever got? So Pete.
930130	938390	That's a good question. I don't know that the message itself was weird, but I was a little
938390	946470	taken aback to get a message where the profile picture was like on a beach in a bikini. It
946470	953130	wasn't a complaint, but it just was a little shocking that that was the LinkedIn. I expect
953130	957850	that on Twitter. I expect it on Instagram. I expect it on Facebook or whatever, but LinkedIn
957850	962110	was a little bit of a unique place to get it. I mean, it turned out to be an extraordinarily
962110	967150	qualified candidate who just really chose poorly for their picture.
970030	972750	Chris, do you have any interesting ones?
974410	981710	This literally happened a month and a half ago. I actually had somebody try to connect with me,
981710	985210	and when I looked at their profile, they were working for my company.
985210	992490	My company is pretty small. So they'd set up a fake profile and were working for
992490	997930	Tyro Security. And so I sent them a message saying, congratulations on getting a job.
998190	1002270	I hadn't even realized that normally I'm involved in that process.
1002550	1009310	And the person actually replied back. They replied back saying like laughing and basically
1009310	1014530	just telling me that worth a try or something like that. And then I bet you can't guess who I am.
1014530	1019390	So then now I'm thinking it's one of my friends or somebody sort of having a joke,
1019390	1025590	but that was probably the weirdest one. They changed their profile. I tried to report them
1025590	1030290	and I reported them and they just changed their profile to say that they were working for Amazon
1030290	1039270	after that. I guess it's easier to hide at least, right? When you've got that many employees.
1040190	1049530	Yeah. The fake employees is great. We have three janitors in India. So that's always interesting.
1049530	1057470	And I think we've got a window washer in the Ukraine and we've filed the complaints for a
1057470	1061370	long time, but hey. Wow. You have the cleanest offices ever.
1061370	1066570	Yeah. Especially since we've been remote for 20 years. That's very interesting. They obviously
1066570	1072870	haven't done their OSINT enough. With that kind of staff though, you could be cleanjobs.net.
1073130	1076050	Oh, I see what you did there.
1078490	1082070	7.30 is different from the 9.30. Try the veal tippy waitress.
1084150	1088550	So Matt, what is the weirdest one you've gotten?
1089330	1092470	Can I change the question a little bit? And the weirdest one I've sent?
1093050	1094450	Oh, sure.
1094990	1097050	I sent one to myself one time.
1098570	1103010	I'm not sure if I feel sad for you or if I want to know about the story.
1103010	1113910	I found my picture on a profile. And so I sent through. It wasn't my name. It was just my picture,
1113910	1115090	which I thought was weird.
1115910	1118210	It's an impressive beard though. I mean, let's be honest.
1118210	1125090	It was before that. This was like six months ago. No, I'm kidding.
1125550	1133190	No, this was a long time ago. And I wasn't even working at Tenenbaum at the time.
1133190	1140590	And I found my own picture on a profile and I just sent a connection request to it.
1140710	1143350	I said, you're a good looking guy.
1146330	1147150	Brilliant.
1147150	1150530	I don't think they ever responded, but I just thought it was funny.
1150570	1155510	It'd be great if you could send that request now with your beard to you without your beard.
1155710	1156670	Yes.
1157070	1159810	There's like a weird Back to the Future reference there somewhere.
1162730	1168130	Well, considering that, that I've known you since your beard was this long.
1169250	1174670	That was back when you worked with the, what was it? That little crocodile thing?
1174670	1175910	It was the gecko.
1175910	1180490	That was when my hair was this long. It didn't happen here. It was this long here.
1180490	1182650	And I hadn't had the beard yet.
1182650	1186670	Yep. Yep. Yep. You had that. Anyway.
1186750	1191590	So Rachel, this was your question. What was the weirdest LinkedIn request you got?
1191590	1196590	So it started out, we'll take you through the journey. It started out genuine request about a
1196590	1204890	job turned into, can I meet you at the bar at 7pm? And it just, it got creepy real quick, real fast.
1205450	1208470	Needless to say, didn't get a job. Didn't get a date.
1208790	1210530	That never happens to me.
1211170	1212030	No?
1212110	1214730	Nope. I know it's shocking.
1215490	1219370	Use Matt's profile picture. I think it's working out for everybody.
1219450	1219890	Clearly.
1220750	1226250	I thought I'd got lucky when I got a, I got a request from, it looked like it was Baby Spice.
1226250	1229850	I was like, no way. She looked just like she did when she was there.
1229950	1233590	And it turned out it was, and this, Pete, you're going to find this amusing.
1233590	1238670	I put a post on LinkedIn about it because it was Baby Spice's picture.
1239010	1245970	It was a male name and they were working at Amazon. Sorry, no, they were working at Microsoft on AWS.
1248110	1248730	Amazing.
1248730	1252930	Which is really, I mean, it's a good gig if you can get it.
1253030	1253770	Yep.
1258090	1263330	That's probably a little harder to explain than like developing in Java and .NET at the same time.
1263590	1267530	I imagine mixing clouds is, I don't know.
1267790	1270270	Yeah. I can't imagine. I mean, I'm sure that they're probably
1270270	1274870	messing around with AWS as much as they can, but I don't think officially they've got a department,
1274870	1276370	but you know, maybe they do.
1278330	1283590	Well, the weirdest, the weirdest requests I get, and it's just, it's just really sad,
1283590	1288950	but people drop their entire resume in a LinkedIn request to me.
1288950	1293330	And I'm seeing some head noddings, you know, like here, here's my resume.
1294090	1297650	I'm like, sorry, not the best approach.
1297650	1302550	You definitely need to look at someone's profile and find out what they are.
1302550	1307850	99.9% of the community thinks that I'm a recruiter.
1307970	1309370	I'm not.
1309570	1317050	I will tell you how bad your resume is, but please don't drop your resume in, you know, in there.
1317050	1323250	So I really like this question that, again, Rachel put together,
1323250	1327550	because I didn't think people gave gifts after an interview.
1327550	1331070	So it must be something in the South.
1331210	1333710	So Rachel, tell us about your weird gifts.
1333710	1336770	Southern hospitality. Come on, friends.
1337110	1339930	So this, again, maybe it's just me.
1339930	1345030	I don't know what I'm doing wrong in life, but the one that I remember so clearly,
1345030	1348530	I had everyone, you know, I had just left my office and come back in.
1348530	1350370	And everyone's like, have you seen it yet?
1350370	1351410	Have you seen it yet?
1351450	1354250	And I couldn't imagine what I hadn't seen yet.
1354510	1361910	Only to find out I had a whip put on my desk with a note that said, hope you call me daddy.
1364670	1365550	Wow.
1365630	1366290	Yeah.
1366290	1367390	Yep.
1368390	1376630	And it was an internal employee who then I had to fire for this afterwards,
1376630	1379090	who had interviewed for a job.
1379350	1384310	So it's still... and I kept the whip for years in my office.
1384350	1388430	And then it became kind of a weird thing in HR, like with a whip.
1388630	1393990	But it was just always a reminder of things not to do and things not to give.
1393990	1396270	So thank you notes, super great.
1396270	1398470	Whips, not so cool.
1398850	1403550	So just, you know, not a great thing to leave a recruiter.
1403550	1407790	It's just, it didn't work out for anybody.
1407790	1409550	New rule on this panel.
1409610	1410350	Rachel goes last.
1410350	1411730	Don't invite Rachel.
1412310	1413190	No, no, no, no, no.
1413190	1414710	She goes last every time.
1414710	1416610	Yeah, she has to clean up for us.
1416610	1418050	The rest of us sound like shit after that.
1421430	1422530	Oh, too funny.
1422630	1423590	I'm sorry.
1423590	1429090	I'm finishing that question right now, because no one is going to be able to beat that one.
1429090	1430610	No one, no one.
1430870	1432330	I am disappointed.
1432330	1434050	I thought somebody else was going to have it.
1434050	1437010	Maybe I'm doing something completely wrong.
1437470	1438770	All very right.
1438770	1441430	Sounds like you're doing something very right to me.
1444070	1446510	Okay, so new question.
1448030	1451610	Yeah, well, at least they didn't give you a poll or something, you know.
1451610	1454710	Well, you didn't, you haven't got to that question yet.
1455490	1456710	Just kidding.
1456710	1457510	Move on.
1457510	1459030	We're only halfway through.
1460830	1465210	Hey, I know Meg is going to miss the fact that she was not part of this.
1465210	1469090	So one of our panelists have put in a question.
1469090	1474070	What is the worst recruiter pickup line you've seen a recruiter use?
1474070	1476170	I'm going to you, Chris.
1476410	1477890	Oh my goodness.
1477890	1479450	Let's come to me first.
1479450	1480470	Yeah.
1481170	1482270	Well, I feel like...
1483690	1486810	And when you say recruiter pickup line, what do you mean, Pete?
1486810	1488250	Sorry for clarification.
1488310	1493810	Yeah, like, I guess the, like, what's their initial outreach email
1494330	1497650	and potentially subject line, yeah, their hook line.
1499030	1502970	Well, I guess being an external agency, like, I mean,
1502970	1505810	we're normally going out to them most of the time, right?
1505810	1507690	We do get them to come in to us.
1507690	1510830	I don't think we really get, we don't get really that many, you know,
1510830	1513050	because we're the agency, right?
1513050	1516610	They're always wanting to, for us, we're going out to them.
1516610	1517930	So they're usually just replying.
1517930	1519910	So I haven't got, oh my goodness, a lot of terrible questions.
1519910	1522270	I'm going to say to you, Catherine, you have to stop coming to me first.
1522270	1525370	Maybe I take inspiration from everybody else's amazing stories.
1525370	1529610	Well, at least we're starting to flesh out the order of who should answer the questions, right?
1529610	1530970	Rachel's going to go last.
1530970	1532050	Rachel last.
1532050	1533010	Yeah, absolutely.
1533010	1533670	Yeah.
1534550	1535950	I need more vodka.
1535950	1540990	Chris, you know, so many other agencies.
1541170	1546190	Come on, you've got to have seen a really bad subject line out there.
1547790	1550550	Um, I'll tell you, okay.
1550550	1553170	I'll tell you a subject line, an outgoing one.
1553170	1555390	So I'm going to slightly change the story.
1555930	1558130	And it's a completely true story.
1558130	1560210	It's the company I worked for before this.
1560210	1562590	And it was somebody in their London office.
1562590	1566890	And they used to get a good candidate in and mail them out.
1567210	1569390	And they had a candidate.
1570210	1574030	And again, diversity wise, you know, it was a tech IT.
1574110	1577510	We don't get many women in IT.
1577750	1581190	And we used to have like really, really high ratios.
1581190	1584390	If you had a good female candidate, you knew you were going to place them.
1584410	1588150	And so everybody was really pushed to get their resume and get them out the door.
1589090	1591810	Now, you'd hope people would do that respectfully.
1592510	1595330	One of the consultants sent out an email.
1595330	1598150	And it was, the lady's name was Debbie.
1598190	1601090	And she was a desktop support candidate.
1601090	1605510	And the entitled the email outgoing, Debbie does desktop.
1611110	1611850	Yeah.
1612570	1614490	Final written warning for that one.
1614490	1616310	That may be a dated reference.
1616310	1617270	I don't know.
1618170	1622770	I don't know how many people under the age of, I don't know, maybe 30 or...
1623890	1625370	Yeah, watch it, Matt.
1625370	1626290	Watch it.
1628250	1629010	Yeah.
1631010	1634990	Matt, I'm going to go to you.
1634990	1639790	Any, any good sort of pickup lines, subject headers?
1641090	1642770	I'm going to disappoint you on this one.
1642770	1644350	I don't, I don't have one.
1644350	1646010	I haven't, I haven't heard of one.
1646010	1647610	I know there's, there's a bunch out there.
1647610	1650090	And I couldn't think of anything before we got on here.
1650090	1656410	But I would, I would say anything in all caps is probably the worst thing ever.
1656490	1660470	If we're going to get real about advice, if that's what we're here for,
1660470	1664030	all caps, something is, is, is just bad.
1664050	1666970	I've gotten a couple of those and it's, I don't know.
1667270	1668270	It's odd.
1668270	1669330	I don't like it.
1669910	1673090	So I wish I had a better story for you, but I don't.
1673090	1674350	Going to go to Pete.
1674350	1675990	Get me a job now.
1676190	1678390	Yeah, I, I get a lot of those.
1678390	1679930	I am job.
1680210	1681970	So that's the worst.
1681970	1687590	So Pete, and then we're going to have Rachel wrap it up with what is the best pickup line.
1687590	1688570	So Pete.
1688710	1695630	So the best one that I can think of is one that I got from an agency when I was working,
1695630	1698370	one of my old companies when I had first gone to the corporate side of things.
1698370	1702370	It was from an agency and it was, I want to be inside you,
1702370	1705010	was the subject line, dot, dot, dot.
1705010	1711390	And then I opened the email because of course it couldn't open the email and it said,
1711390	1712330	dot, dot, dot.
1712330	1717910	It had an R, headquarters, walking my employee in for their first day.
1717910	1722170	So what the message really was, I want to be in your headquarters, walking in my employee
1722170	1723350	for their first day.
1723510	1727970	And I was like, oh, but the subject line was just, I want to be inside you.
1728450	1730890	I was a little disappointed when I opened it up.
1730890	1733510	I was really hoping for something a little bit better.
1733510	1738450	But again, I clearly, I don't get all these really good ones that some of you guys get.
1739470	1740850	Okay, Rachel.
1741150	1742210	Well, first I'm judging.
1742210	1745730	So let me get off my judgment seat that Pete opened that email.
1745930	1746970	And second...
1749170	1752050	You obviously don't know Pete that well.
1752130	1756030	I was behind the safety and solitude of a VPN at the time.
1756030	1756770	There you go.
1756770	1757730	Okay, you were safe.
1757730	1760870	Well, then my judgment is, I will postpone my judgment for later.
1760890	1763710	No, I don't really have, I'm kind of with Matt.
1763710	1766310	I don't have anything fantastic.
1766310	1767790	You know, do you come here often?
1767790	1771150	I mean, I don't really hear too many of that.
1771150	1774870	I mean, I haven't seen any just other ones that just convince you,
1774870	1776730	oh, I'm so sorry about your loss.
1776770	1780410	You open it up and it's how can we help you fill it, you know, or things like that.
1780410	1782790	But nothing just fantastic.
1782790	1783910	So I'm sorry.
1783910	1787610	I am probably going to be demoted to like third in line now.
1787610	1791330	No, that whip story is going to carry you all the way through.
1792850	1794950	I wish I still had it.
1794950	1797110	Well, that's another story.
1798770	1800150	Okay, next question.
1800150	1804910	What is the worst excuse you've heard for missing an interview?
1804910	1806450	Who wants to go first?
1808850	1810410	I mean, that was my question.
1810410	1811750	So it'd be really easy for me.
1811750	1814430	It's one of the few ones I can go first on.
1814950	1816030	I've got an answer.
1816030	1816910	I've got an answer.
1818070	1819490	I should have really.
1821650	1822990	Probably two of them.
1822990	1826590	One person we rang and rang.
1826910	1829110	They just didn't turn up for their interview.
1829630	1832690	Rung them to confirm before, like in the morning.
1832770	1834510	Didn't answer us.
1835170	1836410	Rung them again.
1836590	1838750	Warned the client we haven't managed to get hold of them.
1838750	1839590	They might not be able to.
1839590	1842030	They might not be turning up, but we spoke to them yesterday.
1842030	1842790	Fine.
1842850	1847290	Got a phone call in from the candidate's brother saying,
1847610	1849710	unfortunately, he'd passed away.
1850810	1858730	Then a week and a half later, that candidate's resume was applying for another job.
1858730	1863570	And somebody spoke to them and it was the same candidate.
1863570	1865390	He'd resurrected.
1865390	1869430	His name wasn't Jesus, but he's resurrected himself in a week and a half
1869430	1873630	and was denying all knowledge of having an interview.
1874090	1876470	It was such a weird conversation.
1876470	1882210	We had the resurrected candidate and then also did have a candidate who didn't miss the interview.
1883090	1887250	And I will say these date back quite a bit.
1887250	1890690	So I feel like I'm dealing with more professional people nowadays.
1892050	1894430	He celebrated his last day as a company.
1894430	1896130	He had an interview the next day.
1896130	1897990	Couldn't get hold of him in the morning.
1898250	1901370	And then he rang us back an hour before his interview and said,
1901370	1903270	Oh, I'm really sorry.
1904010	1906370	I had too much to drink last night.
1906370	1909090	I'm running a bit late, but I am going to make it.
1909310	1910670	And I will make it on time.
1910670	1916670	Is there any way you could tell the client I'm a bit disheveled because I'm in last night's suit?
1917370	1918430	So he said it was my last day.
1918430	1920230	And I was like, no, honestly, we can delay it.
1920230	1921630	We can delay it.
1921630	1923230	We can do something about it.
1923230	1924530	No, no, I don't want to miss out now.
1924530	1925590	I really want to go.
1926190	1928910	And I said, is there anything else we need to tell them?
1928990	1930290	And he said, yeah.
1930970	1934870	So I've got a little bit of claret, as we call it.
1934870	1936110	It isn't wine in England.
1936570	1940130	I've got some claret down my suit, is what he said.
1940210	1944670	He would actually spend the night in the jail for drunken disorderly.
1944670	1947670	And he'd cut himself and he had blood all over his suit.
1947670	1950250	And he was trying to convince us he still wanted to go to the interview.
1950250	1952890	We needlessly didn't go ahead.
1952890	1955410	We pulled that one back and changed it.
1956430	1958750	We gotta admire his determination, though.
1958750	1959230	Yeah.
1959230	1959930	Yeah.
1959930	1961610	I mean, he wasn't going to drop out.
1961610	1963730	I mean, he really wanted the job.
1963730	1964770	Yeah.
1966510	1969010	So Pete, worst excuse?
1969450	1972530	So I want to curveball a little here.
1972530	1975050	Like, this person didn't miss the interview.
1975050	1976550	They made it to the interview.
1976550	1978830	It was during college recruiting season.
1978990	1984450	And they had come in late the night before and had gotten there.
1984450	1987790	And so they didn't get a chance to eat and came in in the morning.
1987790	1995730	And they sat down for the interview and was clearly having some discomfort partway through
1995730	2003550	the interview and visibly squirming in the seat, not really able to maintain their composure.
2003550	2009390	Started to sweat a bit and realized that, like, there was going to be an incident relatively
2009390	2011090	soon if we didn't do something.
2012450	2020450	So that poor person, it turns out, picked up some Taco Bell for breakfast on the way in that day.
2020610	2027610	And on the way making it to the Fortress of Solitude, if you will, where they would have
2027610	2033590	been safe to do their business, unfortunately didn't quite make it to the room where you do
2033590	2040550	that first and had a little bit of an accident all the way down the hallway leading up to the
2042230	2042750	bathroom.
2042750	2042990	Wow.
2043070	2050310	Was so disheveled in there and the clothes were so ruined that they couldn't leave the bathroom.
2051850	2057350	And what ended up happening is that he had to call out for help so that somebody could hear
2057350	2063010	him in the bathroom, which ended up, long story short, because this could go on for hours. You
2063010	2070170	could actually find it on Reddit. You called out, wound up, long story short, our CTO
2070170	2077510	had to go and go to the Gap and buy him new pants so that he could come out of the bathroom.
2077610	2083370	He came out of the bathroom and out of sheer nicety, they said,
2083370	2088070	do you want to finish the interview? And he's like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm not getting this job.
2088830	2091470	Or would ever take it if you got it.
2091730	2094870	Even if you get offered, are you going to take it?
2095670	2102250	Yeah, but you can find it on Reddit. It was an amazing story.
2103110	2107390	Okay. Does anyone want to top that or at least equal that?
2108370	2113930	No, but there's one I want to share. I want to share one that we had and it's in the same guys.
2114090	2116910	It was not because they missed the interview.
2118430	2124510	They didn't even get... where I used to work, we used to do a recruiter, just a pre-interview
2125050	2129250	discussion, you know, 20 minutes just to get them prepped, get them ready for who they're going to
2129250	2136830	meet. And this didn't happen to me, it happened to a coworker. Again, college recruiting. So
2137510	2144690	young folks, please, please know what you're doing and how to accept bad news.
2144690	2154410	Um, she showed up with, yeah, this was kind of early 2000s, but it looked like she came right
2154410	2162270	out of like a grunge band concert, right? Just the red flannel shirt tied up around, you know, and
2163090	2169670	it's like, all right, that's, we'll talk to you a little bit. But we did, she ended up,
2169670	2174670	we ended up not letting her go any further, right? We were like, look, you're not ready for this.
2174690	2180450	I think you've, you need to learn a little bit about interviewing and being ready for interviews.
2180450	2187190	This is not the job at, you know, Walmart or whatever. She said, okay, well, I appreciate that.
2187370	2192830	Can I drop off some flyers for my band? We're playing up the street in a couple of weeks. I'm
2192830	2202350	like, and she left the whole stack of flyers with us for her band. Like, it's the weirdest thing we
2202350	2208730	ever saw. It's not, it's not poop down the hall. Sorry, Pete, but... I don't have crap either,
2208730	2217330	but I do have blood. I mean, I had, I have blood. Does that count? Okay, good. You gotta share that, Rachel.
2217470	2224190	She beat her ex-husband with a golf club because found him with another woman, ended up in jail
2224990	2230170	and called from jail her one phone call to let me know she was going to be late,
2230170	2237810	but she would be bailed out. Wow. So the moral of the stories here is that if you go to jail,
2237810	2242730	you clearly want the job. Absolutely. And you make sure you have your recruiter's number
2242730	2250210	as your only phone call. Just saying. Yeah. That is the number one, like, moral of that story.
2250210	2258650	And she didn't, she didn't get the job. Oh, come on! Wasted phone call. You know, in my head, I'm like,
2258650	2265010	oh, please, Lord, don't make her get out of jail. She forgot. She only had one phone call. She was
2265010	2271010	supposed to be calling to get her bail. Thank you. And then she was stuck. Thank you. It was,
2271010	2274830	it was a precious moment. Needless to say, this is another candidate that I followed
2274830	2283630	in the news and continued to beat her husband. So great story. Welcome to Louisiana.
2286410	2288270	Got to have a passport.
2291500	2300840	I knew Rachel would be a great addition to this team. Yes. So, okay, I'm going to move on to our
2300840	2308860	next question, which is what is the worst interview faux pas you have ever seen? Rachel, I'm going to
2308860	2314360	kick it off with you so that you set the standard for everyone else. Well, I am afraid I am going to
2314360	2320740	set this bar low, but I'm going to try real hard. Probably the one that sticks out so much in my
2320740	2327820	mind was an interview that I was participating in, and the gentleman was angry at life. He was angry
2327820	2332640	that he woke up in the morning. He was angry that he drove his car to the interview. He was angry
2332640	2340300	about everything to the point where he was coming across the table at us with anger about everything.
2340300	2345480	At the end of the interview, he wanted to talk a lot about how much the job was going to pay
2346240	2351980	and everything else. We were like, we were fearing for our lives at this moment because there was a
2351980	2356860	threat against us if we didn't hire him, a threat against the company if we didn't hire him, and
2357300	2361180	everything else. But then he wanted to make sure that we were very clear on what his salary
2362800	2367680	expectations were and when could he start. So, that was probably the one that sticks out the
2367680	2373520	most was just the sheer anger talking about the things he wanted to do to his former employer and
2373520	2378260	how he was going to execute these things. I mean, very vivid conversations about
2379180	2384260	how that should have ended. So, we did have to call the police afterwards because there were
2384260	2389960	very visible threats against his previous employer, and I didn't want to walk out to my car by myself
2389960	2396460	that night. So, it was not a great time, and again, moral of the story, he didn't get the job.
2398320	2402440	So, Chris, any good ones to tell?
2404020	2409740	A couple of times we've had managers actually
2409740	2416980	interview people for the completely wrong job. So, we get this feedback and it doesn't
2416980	2421260	make any sense, and then we speak to them, and it has happened more than once, and then the
2421260	2427660	managers are like, oh, I interviewed them for this job, I got them mixed up with this other candidate,
2427680	2433340	so, I mean, dealing with that, the fallout of that, is absolutely no fun. I mean, it must be
2433340	2437460	the worst. Can you imagine, you're getting asked all these questions, and it's not even for your
2437460	2441300	job, you can't answer any of them, you're an expert in your field, and you're like, why are they even
2441300	2447020	asking me this? So, that's probably the biggest faux pas, and it hasn't happened just
2447020	2453280	once, unfortunately. Yeah, that's probably the most awkward one to deal with.
2454740	2462280	Pete? I think the weirdest thing I've seen happen in an interview that I sort of
2462280	2467460	shook my head at is, I was interviewing somebody, this is an experienced person, I mean,
2467600	2474720	a good solid 15, 20 years of experience, and he, I mean, I had noticed that he didn't have
2474720	2481340	any socks on with his suit, which is fine, man, like, Don Johnson did it, you do your thing, but
2481340	2487480	it, he took his shoes off in the middle of the interview, and like, put his, you know, leg up,
2487480	2494120	you know, crossed his legs, and I mean, I might have been okay with it if you'd had like a mani
2494120	2500860	pedi that day, but that was not the case, and it was not pleasant, and I actually had to stop
2500860	2508020	things, I'm all for your comfort, and your, you know, how you want to live, but you got to put
2508020	2514360	shoes back on, because we were in a, you know, nine by nine room, and it was, it was getting a
2514360	2520940	little raunchy in there. I'm just going to say, I was in the same boat, but the person was picking
2520940	2527540	their toenails. Yes, I had one of those. That was going to be one of my stories, I was going to ask,
2527540	2532720	I was going to ask if they picked their toenails while they did it. Yeah, go for it, Matt. No,
2532720	2539020	I won't go there, because he told the story, just changed the, crossed their legs to, to pick their
2539020	2546580	toenails the whole time, but so I'll, I'll, I'll do another one, and this is on a hiring manager side.
2548420	2554900	You know, I love it when hiring managers are real quick on, on getting that feedback back to us,
2556200	2560440	and, and, and when you got a hiring manager who knows how to use the applicant tracking system,
2560440	2566280	and, and knows what the buttons are, and what they do. I, I love that, all right, just, just for
2566280	2569620	all you hiring managers out there. I really appreciate when you, when you know how to use
2569620	2575360	the system. I just wish that you would wait more than 15 minutes after the interview,
2576160	2584720	and maybe even after the person's driven away from the building to reject them, and to know
2584720	2591440	that you can actually send the rejection yourself, because we had that happen, and the person
2592000	2598540	got the rejection letter. It was just a stupid, templated rejection letter, right? I'm like,
2598540	2605000	why would you do that? The person came back, because he hadn't even left the parking lot yet,
2606420	2611720	hadn't left the parking lot yet, and came back upstairs and asked to talk to me. I'm like,
2611720	2619300	um, yeah, it's like, uh, I just got this email from, from, you know, your system, and it says
2619300	2624620	I was rejected, but it was just, I had to sit there, and I hadn't even had a chance to debrief
2624620	2629620	with the person yet. I didn't even know what, I thought the guy came back, because he was,
2629620	2635120	you know, he forgot something, or, or, you know, whatever it was, and yeah, he wanted to know right
2635120	2640160	then and there why he was rejected, and I had to actually go find the manager, and find out
2640160	2644420	what the reasons were, and they weren't really good reasons either, so I had to kind of
2644420	2650780	figure out what it was that I could say to this person, and it really put me in a bad spot that
2650780	2659200	day. Nothing like tap dancing for somebody else's mistake. Yep. So we, we've talked a lot about
2659200	2666860	what candidates have done wrong. We've talked a little bit about sort of our, you know, processes
2666860	2673100	that might not go well. Just wanted to go around the room and sort of talk about, you know, the
2673100	2679320	other, as Matt was kicking off there, that the hiring managers, who are the people that sort of
2679320	2685140	do the final interviewing, what are some of the mistakes that you have seen them make?
2685800	2692660	Matt had a really good one. Rachel, Chris, Pete, who wants to kick off next?
2697460	2700160	You guys, you internal guys must have some good ones.
2700160	2703160	I mean, there's really good stuff to choose from.
2703160	2708180	Yeah, mine interviewing, yeah, I think just interviewing the people for the wrong jobs is
2708180	2713640	always like, that's always the worst, and the worst one I've had to deal with. Yeah, you got,
2713640	2715860	you internal guys must have some good ones, surely.
2716100	2723140	I definitely had a, yeah, I worked for, well, I work for a company, if I give too much details,
2723140	2728760	but it's not my current company, but I worked for a company where I had a candidate,
2729460	2736300	fairly senior level candidate, call me after the interview, like two hours after it was over,
2736300	2740160	and I said, okay, well, I don't have the feedback. And he's like, I don't care about the feedback.
2740160	2745180	He's like, I just have to ask you a question. So, okay, he's like, is it possible that,
2745180	2751240	insert hiring manager's name here, was drunk during my interview? I said, I'm not sure how
2751240	2757580	you mean, like, I, my mentality went, I'm not sure how you mean, it was 10 o'clock AM interview,
2757580	2762660	like, what do you mean? He's like, no, no, no, I come from a long line of alcoholics,
2762660	2766160	and I'm pretty sure I know what somebody who's been drinking looks like. And I'm like,
2766580	2775260	I said, well, yeah, me too, but like, it's 10 AM. And he said, no, about four weeks later,
2775260	2782660	we did let that hiring manager go, because apparently for weeks on end was showing up to
2782660	2789660	work drunk, and just masquerading through the day on that. So note to self, like, don't interview
2789660	2796440	people when you're drunk. We did not. Like, we won't be interviewing anybody right now,
2796440	2800300	is what you're saying? Yeah, hopefully not. No interviewing.
2801740	2806940	Got it. So Rachel, any good hiring manager?
2807520	2812260	You know, I love the ones that really want to pull back the layers and better understand the
2812260	2818100	candidate by asking questions about, so when are you due? And the person's not pregnant,
2818100	2824440	that was a super fun one. Or, you know, tell me more about why you can't work because of your
2824440	2831860	children, or all of the things that were like, you said what? You know, those are the ones that
2831860	2837220	stick out the most in my mind. And even sitting in with hiring managers on interviews, I'm always
2837220	2844300	taken back at the liberties, sometimes of just, well, I just, you know, I have it in my gut. And
2844300	2849480	I'm like, no, it's actually written down, you just need to read it. That's what we need your gut to
2849480	2854800	be. And so I think that's the piece that's always the most interesting for me is the gut
2855360	2861400	questions that come out. That completely puts you in a litigious spot in the spot where you're like,
2861400	2866580	we're just not making good decisions right now, friends. And so I think those are the ones that
2866580	2873460	stick out the most. But the one that was clearly not pregnant, and asked when she was due,
2873460	2880340	I had to deescalate that one. And that was not fun. So don't ever ask, even if you think don't,
2880340	2887620	don't ask. It's sound advice to make sure hiring managers know, like, don't type anything out that
2887620	2893000	you don't want to repeat in court. Thank you. But it does not stop at the hiring manager.
2893000	2899320	That's your entire interview team, because some of those people are staff level, you know,
2899320	2905140	software engineer, whatever level you are, because we... I say we, but this is before
2905860	2913280	tenable. Somebody was was diagnosing somebody, like mentally in their feedback evaluation form.
2914160	2918760	And it was in the record. In writing. Yeah.
2919700	2923460	What were you doing during that session?
2923460	2925120	Help me understand. That's the question that always comes up.
2925120	2929300	Help me understand what you were thinking when you wrote this down.
2929300	2931680	But can they code?
2933720	2934460	Right?
2935500	2938600	It's like crazy all day. Just gotta code.
2939500	2940060	So guys...
2940060	2941340	Bless their hearts.
2941400	2947580	Bless their souls. Bless their heart. I actually have the Garden and Gun,
2947580	2953140	Bless Your Heart trivia. So Rachel, we might have to play that.
2953140	2956260	Yeah, we're both drinking red wine. We're good kindred spirits here.
2956460	2959120	We're good there. So...
2959300	2965720	Guys, ladies, lady, we're done. You know, we've gotten to the end.
2965740	2972460	So I'm going to say I'm going to go around Robin. I'm going to have the lady go last.
2972580	2979000	But I want each one of you to give a top tip to the job seekers in the community
2979000	2983680	on what they need to do in their job search. So Chris, you're first.
2984640	2986020	Be honest.
2986580	2988740	Stand by the line. That's it.
2989180	2989840	Matt?
2989840	2990860	Just be honest.
2992700	2996620	Know what you're applying to. You know, there's a lot of CR applicants out there
2996620	3000140	that apply to every single job that a particular company wants.
3000140	3002860	I understand you want a job and you need a job.
3003040	3007420	Or you're trying to find something so you're not the last person in a sinking ship.
3009020	3013660	But apply to something that you know you can do most of the job with.
3014200	3016460	You have most of the skills to do the job.
3018080	3020800	And just be interested in it.
3022040	3023000	Pete?
3024260	3028460	Just have somebody... get a second set of eyeballs on your resume.
3029360	3032720	None of us are published writers to my knowledge.
3032960	3037800	So get a second, you know, set of eyes on your resume just to get it looked at
3037800	3040020	to make sure everything looks the way that it should.
3040020	3043660	It's hard to write a document like that and stare at it after a while
3043660	3045220	it all starts to look the same.
3045380	3048620	So, yeah, just, you know, once over I think is helpful.
3049680	3051000	And Rachel?
3051700	3055600	It's simple. We're going to spend a little bit of time looking at each resume.
3055600	3060560	When you put your pictures and there's colors and there's too many cutesy-tootsies on there,
3060560	3061680	we get lost.
3061680	3066240	So just keep it simple. Tell us what you can do and what we're applying for
3066240	3070500	and or what you're applying for and everyone's life is much simpler.
3071400	3078940	Well, I want to thank all of my friends, Pete, Rachel, Matt, and Chris for coming together on a
3078940	3084580	Friday night to have a few drinks and share that recruiters are humans too.
3084580	3087840	They want to be your best friends, want to be your advocates.
3088580	3093540	So take the time, reach out to a recruiter, make sure you have recruiters in your network
3093540	3098180	because they are the people that are going to advocate for you to find the next best job.
3098180	3101660	And remember that we have recruiters in resume review,
3101660	3106140	and we have people who are in career coaching that can help you.
3106140	3110660	So thank you everyone for coming to Career Hacking Village and have a great evening.
3111100	3112020	Cheers.
3112080	3113120	Thank you.