[00:05.250 --> 00:11.830] So welcome back to the Career Hacking Village. One thing that's always interesting in our [00:11.830 --> 00:18.510] community is that we tend to think that recruiters are evil and they're not human [00:18.510 --> 00:26.650] and they don't know what they're talking about. So I decided to bring a few of my friends together [00:26.650 --> 00:33.970] for some drinks and we're going to talk about finding jobs in this community and also just sort [00:33.970 --> 00:42.110] of what is the human side of a recruiter. So I'm going to start off. You guys can't see the [00:42.110 --> 00:47.370] gallery screen because I'm just going to keep the speaker view but pass it on over to everyone. I'm [00:47.370 --> 00:53.730] going to have my friend Pete with his Iron Maiden shirt on to tell me about what he recruits for [00:53.730 --> 01:01.190] and what he's drinking. Yeah, thanks. So I'm Pete. I am a senior recruiter at AWS. [01:01.830 --> 01:08.710] Most of what I focus on there is primarily high-level architecture for distributed systems, [01:08.710 --> 01:13.030] software as a service, anything that has to do with the cloud that's not the kind of pure [01:13.030 --> 01:20.410] infrastructure side of the house. And I am drinking, as always, at about this time on Fridays, [01:20.690 --> 01:27.310] a Manhattan with an extra splash of cherry juice, which is sort of my signature exclamation point [01:27.310 --> 01:33.930] on my drink. Sounds great. And I'm going to invite our Southern Belle, Rachel Bozeman, [01:33.930 --> 01:40.150] to share with us what she's doing and what she's drinking. Absolutely. So I get to help manage our [01:40.150 --> 01:45.890] talent acquisition program. So we support at CenturyLink. We're hiring everything from finance [01:45.890 --> 01:53.990] into the nitty-gritty. You name it, we're probably hiring for it. So I am drinking a red wine. One, [01:53.990 --> 01:58.270] because they say it's good for your heart. And two, because I'm normally a redhead, [01:58.270 --> 02:02.450] and I just feel like it's a good vibe. So cheers. [02:03.870 --> 02:11.490] And next we have Matt Duran, who has been my B-Sides buddy for seven, eight years now. He was [02:11.490 --> 02:18.670] the only person I knew at a B-Sides. It took me under his wing and made sure that no one accosted [02:18.670 --> 02:25.690] me at my first B-Sides Las Vegas. We've been the bane of each other's existence and good friends [02:25.690 --> 02:31.730] ever since. So Matt, what do you recruit for and what are you drinking? Well, not only that, [02:31.730 --> 02:37.870] I just wanted to make sure you didn't get kicked out because they thought you were going to arrest [02:37.870 --> 02:43.390] them because you were a cop. You look like an undercover cop. One of these things just doesn't [02:43.390 --> 02:48.190] belong, right? No, I'm kidding. Everything belongs at B-Sides and in this community. So [02:49.270 --> 02:54.390] thanks for having me. My name is Matt Duran. I'm a Senior Manager of Talent Acquisition at [02:54.390 --> 03:00.010] Tenable. And I also handle a lot of our employment branding and recruitment marketing type stuff too. [03:00.310 --> 03:05.870] But things that I recruit on or my team recruits for is everything from our platform software [03:05.870 --> 03:13.090] engineers, so cloud-based stuff, but also on-prem, building on-prem devices. If you've ever heard of [03:13.090 --> 03:19.630] Nessus, we build that security center and things like that. Also our researchers, our zero-day [03:19.630 --> 03:27.110] stuff, our plug-in writers, things of that nature, back office IT, even our technical support team as [03:27.110 --> 03:36.210] well, just to name a few things. And I am drinking out of my Star Wars glass there. It's a little [03:36.210 --> 03:43.790] Death Star. I'm drinking an old Forrester 1910. It's a very good one. Why I chose that one is [03:44.450 --> 03:53.390] it's affordable and it's not an everyday drinker, but it tastes good, neat, and that's how I take [03:53.390 --> 04:01.110] my whiskey. So that's me. And that's one thing that I have yet to do is learn how to drink whiskey, [04:01.110 --> 04:09.370] even though everyone around me drinks whiskey. So when I was at that first B-Sides Las Vegas, [04:09.370 --> 04:14.510] first Hacker Summer Camp about seven, eight years ago, ten years ago, someone said earlier today [04:14.510 --> 04:21.230] that was ten years ago, and I know that wasn't the case. I met this guy with this really cool accent [04:21.910 --> 04:29.290] and I invited him to come and be on a panel along with Matt. So Chris Rides, thank you for being on [04:29.290 --> 04:33.790] the journey with me throughout all of the B-Sides. What are you recruiting for and what are you [04:33.790 --> 04:41.590] drinking? Thanks Kathleen. So I've got a cyber security staff in a professional services company, [04:41.590 --> 04:48.570] Tyro Security. So we staff just cyber security. So I've got a team of people and they focus only in [04:48.570 --> 04:54.170] that area. In terms of what I'm drinking, you guys were talking about whiskey. I was this close [04:54.170 --> 04:59.530] to grabbing, I like Woodford Reserve is my go-to bourbon and I was this close to going for a nice [04:59.530 --> 05:05.390] Woodford. But then it was so sunny out here and I thought I'd do this on my balcony that I went [05:05.390 --> 05:09.890] down to the farmer's market this morning and got this amazing blood orange juice. Goes great with [05:09.890 --> 05:17.730] some vodka. That sounds fancy. Goes with that whole decor in the background there, man. It does, [05:17.730 --> 05:23.590] doesn't it, right? You're in a cabana somewhere in Hawaii, don't lie to us. I wish, I really wish. [05:23.590 --> 05:29.330] You need an umbrella in there to really just set it off. Yeah, and a cherry on top or something. [05:29.330 --> 05:37.070] Yeah, well, he's trying to still sort of do the bachelor thing, even though he's a new dad. So [05:37.070 --> 05:53.570] I'm going to give him grief about trying to do all that. And me, I'm drinking my red wine. I'm [05:53.570 --> 06:02.830] drinking it out of my crystal glasses from a little crystal blower up in Halifax, Nova Scotia. [06:02.830 --> 06:08.130] I have a family run. They went out of business and then a woman came along and said, this needs to [06:08.130 --> 06:15.670] be saved. So I am very proud to drink from her glasses. Anyways, so we're all drinking. We're [06:15.670 --> 06:19.610] all having a good time. We're all human beings. I'm going to throw a question out that no one's [06:19.610 --> 06:27.450] been prepared for. So Matt, how has recruiting changed since the pandemic came around? [06:28.410 --> 06:37.330] Wow. So I think there's a few things. One, I think the pool got a little bit bigger, right? [06:37.330 --> 06:43.410] I mean, the Canada pool and the ability to reach out to somebody and have them respond to that [06:43.410 --> 06:48.870] fairly quickly. But I think a lot of the companies out there that, you know, like a LinkedIn or [06:48.870 --> 06:56.530] something, they've allowed you to put that open to work on your profile. So it's not as hidden [06:56.530 --> 07:02.890] as it once was. It's plain as day right there on the screen and allows folks to know who's really [07:02.890 --> 07:09.230] looking. And a second thing, and hopefully I'm not taking somebody else's answer, is I think the [07:10.450 --> 07:17.870] understanding of why somebody was let go and no longer working, it's kind of hard to argue these [07:17.870 --> 07:23.330] days. In the past, it's always been a bit of a red mark on somebody. You were laid off, so you had [07:23.330 --> 07:29.290] to have been on the lower echelon of the team. I think that's kind of been myth-busting. [07:30.290 --> 07:36.950] So Rachel, for a big firm like CenturyLink, you know, obviously you were always ramping up for [07:36.950 --> 07:43.290] projects and stuff. What's going on now for you? Are you slowing down or ramping up? [07:43.290 --> 07:48.530] A little bit of both in there. And I would agree with what Matt shared. I mean, the pools have [07:48.530 --> 07:55.310] gotten bigger, but I've definitely had to seek some guidance and some help. My feelings have [07:55.310 --> 08:00.930] been a little hurt as of late. So while the pools are bigger, we're getting ghosted a lot as well. [08:00.930 --> 08:06.650] So we've seen an uptick of folks that are applying with really no intent to follow through. So we've [08:06.650 --> 08:11.290] been trying to make a lot of friends that really don't want to be friends. So it's added that [08:11.290 --> 08:16.650] complexity of just trying to really find the ones that are genuinely looking for work and [08:16.650 --> 08:24.130] not just applying just because it's the Vogue thing to do. So... And Pete, you've got, you know, [08:24.690 --> 08:30.970] a lot of ramping up going on with AWS and Amazon and... Everybody needs the cloud. [08:31.050 --> 08:36.650] Everyone needs the cloud. So, you know, how have you changed your strategies [08:36.650 --> 08:41.550] and what are you seeing different in the field right now? [08:41.550 --> 08:47.670] Yeah. So my search strategy has completely changed. There are no more city parameters [08:47.670 --> 08:54.930] on my searches. It's wherever I can find a good engineer at that level, I'm going to continue to [08:54.930 --> 09:01.250] do that. But I think that the most market thing I've seen is, and I've been banging the drum for [09:01.250 --> 09:07.990] 10 years on this, that it's an engineering gig. Have code, we'll travel. You do not need to sit [09:07.990 --> 09:16.170] next to 10 people in an office to write fantastic code. And it's taken a global pandemic for people [09:16.170 --> 09:20.030] to go, oh my gosh, this code's still good, even though this person wrote it in their basement [09:20.030 --> 09:25.070] wearing their pajamas. We have finally started to come around to the fact this is going to be [09:25.190 --> 09:30.070] a tipping point, I think, of companies saying, you know what? We actually can have remote workers. [09:30.790 --> 09:35.610] Maybe you can be a little more competitive on pay when you're not spending it on [09:36.450 --> 09:38.550] buildings to house all these people. [09:41.150 --> 09:45.630] So Chris, what's going on for you? So you're a little different. You're [09:45.630 --> 09:53.410] helping companies, you're supporting as a service. What's going on in the staffing firms these days? [09:53.530 --> 09:59.330] Yeah, it's been interesting. I think initially there was, specifically within cybersecurity, [09:59.330 --> 10:05.350] an assumption with some companies that the pool was going to get much bigger and that the skills [10:05.350 --> 10:11.310] gap was almost going to be bridged. And I think what they've realized is the areas and the [10:11.310 --> 10:16.790] industries that were really affected, like the airlines, the cruise lines, people that did make [10:16.790 --> 10:22.150] big layoffs and had to lay off their cybersecurity people, they got snapped up really quickly and [10:22.150 --> 10:28.810] they were in huge demand, multiple offers. And so we've actually built a lot more new clients. We've [10:28.810 --> 10:34.850] had a lot of new clients come to us asking us to help them fill their positions. The thing we're [10:34.850 --> 10:41.370] seeing is some companies are really struggling with... it's taking them time to get their interview [10:41.370 --> 10:45.850] process down remotely. It's taking them time worrying about how are we going to... all of a [10:45.850 --> 10:50.170] sudden we're going to have to onboard some of these people and how are we going to onboard them? [10:50.170 --> 10:56.370] And so it's almost like slowing down a lot of the parts of the process. So it's been an [10:56.370 --> 11:02.930] interesting change. The demand is still there and candidates are... I think Rachel talks about [11:02.930 --> 11:09.010] ghosting, that the candidates are in this strange situation where they might see a few people leave [11:09.010 --> 11:12.270] and they start getting worried. So they start talking and then they don't want to... they're [11:12.270 --> 11:16.990] worried about moving and being the last person in, you know, and the first person out if something [11:16.990 --> 11:22.630] changes. So it's a bit of an unknown. It's still a strange situation at the moment. [11:24.390 --> 11:31.790] Great. So one of the things that we wanted to share is sort of the back-end irreverence, the [11:31.790 --> 11:38.310] worst case scenarios that, you know, a lot of us have seen when we've been talking to job seekers. [11:38.310 --> 11:45.510] And one of the panelists submitted this question. What is the worst email address you have ever [11:45.510 --> 11:52.230] seen? Chris? Oh boy, I can't believe you came to me first. I was trying to think... I was trying [11:52.230 --> 12:00.070] to think of a specific one. I've seen ones with political references in them and religious [12:00.070 --> 12:04.370] references in them, neither of which I think is particularly good when you're applying to jobs [12:04.370 --> 12:08.270] and using that email address. I don't think I've seen anything... I don't think I've got any funny [12:08.270 --> 12:13.570] email stories. Of all the stories I've got, I don't think I've got any funny email ones, to be honest. [12:13.570 --> 12:18.850] I don't think... I can't think of any in particular. Maybe talk to the others and I'll continue to [12:18.850 --> 12:25.990] think a little bit about that. So the one that I've seen a lot is my spam folder. [12:27.090 --> 12:33.730] I've seen those, yeah. I've seen that one. So Rachel, have you seen any funny... [12:35.130 --> 12:41.870] I do work in the South, so if we do one thing well, it's let's screw up email addresses. [12:42.230 --> 12:48.350] And so this particular one, and I remember it so clearly because I took pictures of it and sent it [12:48.350 --> 12:55.610] to everybody I knew, thinking who in the Hades would send this out, but it was Igetdown69 [12:55.610 --> 13:04.130] at gmail.com. Super classy, and they're free, so please create a free one. You know, Yahoo, [13:04.130 --> 13:11.690] Ymail, Gmail. I mean, go big, but don't... yeah, don't get down on your resume with an email. [13:11.690 --> 13:19.850] It still lives in infamy. I'm gonna borrow your story. Your story's not my story. [13:19.850 --> 13:28.030] Yeah, absolutely. But I get a lot of big mamas, hot mamas, sexy lady, you know, a lot of those [13:28.030 --> 13:34.350] where I'm like, again, they're free. You can just do firstname.lastname at Gmail. It's free, [13:34.350 --> 13:42.870] it's free all day, every day. And in that case, you don't have to be, you know, [13:42.870 --> 13:51.750] whatever that was, 69-1 or 69-2. So if I see it, I know you've attended and we'll talk. [13:52.170 --> 13:55.450] I get down 69.job search. [13:59.270 --> 14:02.690] You said it was okay to share that story, right? [14:02.690 --> 14:08.090] Yeah. That'll probably be the tamest story that conference sees. [14:08.090 --> 14:10.170] I didn't want to break the ice too bad. [14:12.530 --> 14:14.530] So Pete, you got one? [14:14.610 --> 14:20.570] Oh, yeah. I will never forget one of the last agency resumes I got when I was still on the [14:20.570 --> 14:29.310] agency side of the house was captainbrowneyeatyahoo.com. I will never, for as many [14:29.310 --> 14:32.670] days as I'm left on this planet, I will never forget that email address. [14:33.050 --> 14:36.150] I'm a little jealous that I can't steal it for my own personal use, [14:36.150 --> 14:38.130] but it was pretty great to see on a resume. [14:40.870 --> 14:44.950] So Chris, I'm going to say, I don't think you can pass these up. Can you? [14:45.030 --> 14:49.770] No chance. These are my stories. I'm taking these now. I'm sorry. [14:50.950 --> 14:54.230] You're going to become like, I'm going to be on one of these and they're going to say, [14:54.230 --> 14:58.710] have you got an email address? And I'll say, actually somebody I know. And that'll be you guys. [14:59.450 --> 15:00.050] Yep. [15:00.050 --> 15:04.930] Let me write that down. Captainbrowneyeatyahoo.com. [15:05.190 --> 15:10.410] It may have been an excite.com domain, so it's probably available again. [15:11.150 --> 15:12.170] Juno. [15:12.590 --> 15:21.250] Juno. Myspace. Maybe that's still around. I don't know. So another great question that we had was, [15:21.250 --> 15:27.610] what is the weirdest LinkedIn request for connections that you've ever got? So Pete. [15:30.130 --> 15:38.390] That's a good question. I don't know that the message itself was weird, but I was a little [15:38.390 --> 15:46.470] taken aback to get a message where the profile picture was like on a beach in a bikini. It [15:46.470 --> 15:53.130] wasn't a complaint, but it just was a little shocking that that was the LinkedIn. I expect [15:53.130 --> 15:57.850] that on Twitter. I expect it on Instagram. I expect it on Facebook or whatever, but LinkedIn [15:57.850 --> 16:02.110] was a little bit of a unique place to get it. I mean, it turned out to be an extraordinarily [16:02.110 --> 16:07.150] qualified candidate who just really chose poorly for their picture. [16:10.030 --> 16:12.750] Chris, do you have any interesting ones? [16:14.410 --> 16:21.710] This literally happened a month and a half ago. I actually had somebody try to connect with me, [16:21.710 --> 16:25.210] and when I looked at their profile, they were working for my company. [16:25.210 --> 16:32.490] My company is pretty small. So they'd set up a fake profile and were working for [16:32.490 --> 16:37.930] Tyro Security. And so I sent them a message saying, congratulations on getting a job. [16:38.190 --> 16:42.270] I hadn't even realized that normally I'm involved in that process. [16:42.550 --> 16:49.310] And the person actually replied back. They replied back saying like laughing and basically [16:49.310 --> 16:54.530] just telling me that worth a try or something like that. And then I bet you can't guess who I am. [16:54.530 --> 16:59.390] So then now I'm thinking it's one of my friends or somebody sort of having a joke, [16:59.390 --> 17:05.590] but that was probably the weirdest one. They changed their profile. I tried to report them [17:05.590 --> 17:10.290] and I reported them and they just changed their profile to say that they were working for Amazon [17:10.290 --> 17:19.270] after that. I guess it's easier to hide at least, right? When you've got that many employees. [17:20.190 --> 17:29.530] Yeah. The fake employees is great. We have three janitors in India. So that's always interesting. [17:29.530 --> 17:37.470] And I think we've got a window washer in the Ukraine and we've filed the complaints for a [17:37.470 --> 17:41.370] long time, but hey. Wow. You have the cleanest offices ever. [17:41.370 --> 17:46.570] Yeah. Especially since we've been remote for 20 years. That's very interesting. They obviously [17:46.570 --> 17:52.870] haven't done their OSINT enough. With that kind of staff though, you could be cleanjobs.net. [17:53.130 --> 17:56.050] Oh, I see what you did there. [17:58.490 --> 18:02.070] 7.30 is different from the 9.30. Try the veal tippy waitress. [18:04.150 --> 18:08.550] So Matt, what is the weirdest one you've gotten? [18:09.330 --> 18:12.470] Can I change the question a little bit? And the weirdest one I've sent? [18:13.050 --> 18:14.450] Oh, sure. [18:14.990 --> 18:17.050] I sent one to myself one time. [18:18.570 --> 18:23.010] I'm not sure if I feel sad for you or if I want to know about the story. [18:23.010 --> 18:33.910] I found my picture on a profile. And so I sent through. It wasn't my name. It was just my picture, [18:33.910 --> 18:35.090] which I thought was weird. [18:35.910 --> 18:38.210] It's an impressive beard though. I mean, let's be honest. [18:38.210 --> 18:45.090] It was before that. This was like six months ago. No, I'm kidding. [18:45.550 --> 18:53.190] No, this was a long time ago. And I wasn't even working at Tenenbaum at the time. [18:53.190 --> 19:00.590] And I found my own picture on a profile and I just sent a connection request to it. [19:00.710 --> 19:03.350] I said, you're a good looking guy. [19:06.330 --> 19:07.150] Brilliant. [19:07.150 --> 19:10.530] I don't think they ever responded, but I just thought it was funny. [19:10.570 --> 19:15.510] It'd be great if you could send that request now with your beard to you without your beard. [19:15.710 --> 19:16.670] Yes. [19:17.070 --> 19:19.810] There's like a weird Back to the Future reference there somewhere. [19:22.730 --> 19:28.130] Well, considering that, that I've known you since your beard was this long. [19:29.250 --> 19:34.670] That was back when you worked with the, what was it? That little crocodile thing? [19:34.670 --> 19:35.910] It was the gecko. [19:35.910 --> 19:40.490] That was when my hair was this long. It didn't happen here. It was this long here. [19:40.490 --> 19:42.650] And I hadn't had the beard yet. [19:42.650 --> 19:46.670] Yep. Yep. Yep. You had that. Anyway. [19:46.750 --> 19:51.590] So Rachel, this was your question. What was the weirdest LinkedIn request you got? [19:51.590 --> 19:56.590] So it started out, we'll take you through the journey. It started out genuine request about a [19:56.590 --> 20:04.890] job turned into, can I meet you at the bar at 7pm? And it just, it got creepy real quick, real fast. [20:05.450 --> 20:08.470] Needless to say, didn't get a job. Didn't get a date. [20:08.790 --> 20:10.530] That never happens to me. [20:11.170 --> 20:12.030] No? [20:12.110 --> 20:14.730] Nope. I know it's shocking. [20:15.490 --> 20:19.370] Use Matt's profile picture. I think it's working out for everybody. [20:19.450 --> 20:19.890] Clearly. [20:20.750 --> 20:26.250] I thought I'd got lucky when I got a, I got a request from, it looked like it was Baby Spice. [20:26.250 --> 20:29.850] I was like, no way. She looked just like she did when she was there. [20:29.950 --> 20:33.590] And it turned out it was, and this, Pete, you're going to find this amusing. [20:33.590 --> 20:38.670] I put a post on LinkedIn about it because it was Baby Spice's picture. [20:39.010 --> 20:45.970] It was a male name and they were working at Amazon. Sorry, no, they were working at Microsoft on AWS. [20:48.110 --> 20:48.730] Amazing. [20:48.730 --> 20:52.930] Which is really, I mean, it's a good gig if you can get it. [20:53.030 --> 20:53.770] Yep. [20:58.090 --> 21:03.330] That's probably a little harder to explain than like developing in Java and .NET at the same time. [21:03.590 --> 21:07.530] I imagine mixing clouds is, I don't know. [21:07.790 --> 21:10.270] Yeah. I can't imagine. I mean, I'm sure that they're probably [21:10.270 --> 21:14.870] messing around with AWS as much as they can, but I don't think officially they've got a department, [21:14.870 --> 21:16.370] but you know, maybe they do. [21:18.330 --> 21:23.590] Well, the weirdest, the weirdest requests I get, and it's just, it's just really sad, [21:23.590 --> 21:28.950] but people drop their entire resume in a LinkedIn request to me. [21:28.950 --> 21:33.330] And I'm seeing some head noddings, you know, like here, here's my resume. [21:34.090 --> 21:37.650] I'm like, sorry, not the best approach. [21:37.650 --> 21:42.550] You definitely need to look at someone's profile and find out what they are. [21:42.550 --> 21:47.850] 99.9% of the community thinks that I'm a recruiter. [21:47.970 --> 21:49.370] I'm not. [21:49.570 --> 21:57.050] I will tell you how bad your resume is, but please don't drop your resume in, you know, in there. [21:57.050 --> 22:03.250] So I really like this question that, again, Rachel put together, [22:03.250 --> 22:07.550] because I didn't think people gave gifts after an interview. [22:07.550 --> 22:11.070] So it must be something in the South. [22:11.210 --> 22:13.710] So Rachel, tell us about your weird gifts. [22:13.710 --> 22:16.770] Southern hospitality. Come on, friends. [22:17.110 --> 22:19.930] So this, again, maybe it's just me. [22:19.930 --> 22:25.030] I don't know what I'm doing wrong in life, but the one that I remember so clearly, [22:25.030 --> 22:28.530] I had everyone, you know, I had just left my office and come back in. [22:28.530 --> 22:30.370] And everyone's like, have you seen it yet? [22:30.370 --> 22:31.410] Have you seen it yet? [22:31.450 --> 22:34.250] And I couldn't imagine what I hadn't seen yet. [22:34.510 --> 22:41.910] Only to find out I had a whip put on my desk with a note that said, hope you call me daddy. [22:44.670 --> 22:45.550] Wow. [22:45.630 --> 22:46.290] Yeah. [22:46.290 --> 22:47.390] Yep. [22:48.390 --> 22:56.630] And it was an internal employee who then I had to fire for this afterwards, [22:56.630 --> 22:59.090] who had interviewed for a job. [22:59.350 --> 23:04.310] So it's still... and I kept the whip for years in my office. [23:04.350 --> 23:08.430] And then it became kind of a weird thing in HR, like with a whip. [23:08.630 --> 23:13.990] But it was just always a reminder of things not to do and things not to give. [23:13.990 --> 23:16.270] So thank you notes, super great. [23:16.270 --> 23:18.470] Whips, not so cool. [23:18.850 --> 23:23.550] So just, you know, not a great thing to leave a recruiter. [23:23.550 --> 23:27.790] It's just, it didn't work out for anybody. [23:27.790 --> 23:29.550] New rule on this panel. [23:29.610 --> 23:30.350] Rachel goes last. [23:30.350 --> 23:31.730] Don't invite Rachel. [23:32.310 --> 23:33.190] No, no, no, no, no. [23:33.190 --> 23:34.710] She goes last every time. [23:34.710 --> 23:36.610] Yeah, she has to clean up for us. [23:36.610 --> 23:38.050] The rest of us sound like shit after that. [23:41.430 --> 23:42.530] Oh, too funny. [23:42.630 --> 23:43.590] I'm sorry. [23:43.590 --> 23:49.090] I'm finishing that question right now, because no one is going to be able to beat that one. [23:49.090 --> 23:50.610] No one, no one. [23:50.870 --> 23:52.330] I am disappointed. [23:52.330 --> 23:54.050] I thought somebody else was going to have it. [23:54.050 --> 23:57.010] Maybe I'm doing something completely wrong. [23:57.470 --> 23:58.770] All very right. [23:58.770 --> 24:01.430] Sounds like you're doing something very right to me. [24:04.070 --> 24:06.510] Okay, so new question. [24:08.030 --> 24:11.610] Yeah, well, at least they didn't give you a poll or something, you know. [24:11.610 --> 24:14.710] Well, you didn't, you haven't got to that question yet. [24:15.490 --> 24:16.710] Just kidding. [24:16.710 --> 24:17.510] Move on. [24:17.510 --> 24:19.030] We're only halfway through. [24:20.830 --> 24:25.210] Hey, I know Meg is going to miss the fact that she was not part of this. [24:25.210 --> 24:29.090] So one of our panelists have put in a question. [24:29.090 --> 24:34.070] What is the worst recruiter pickup line you've seen a recruiter use? [24:34.070 --> 24:36.170] I'm going to you, Chris. [24:36.410 --> 24:37.890] Oh my goodness. [24:37.890 --> 24:39.450] Let's come to me first. [24:39.450 --> 24:40.470] Yeah. [24:41.170 --> 24:42.270] Well, I feel like... [24:43.690 --> 24:46.810] And when you say recruiter pickup line, what do you mean, Pete? [24:46.810 --> 24:48.250] Sorry for clarification. [24:48.310 --> 24:53.810] Yeah, like, I guess the, like, what's their initial outreach email [24:54.330 --> 24:57.650] and potentially subject line, yeah, their hook line. [24:59.030 --> 25:02.970] Well, I guess being an external agency, like, I mean, [25:02.970 --> 25:05.810] we're normally going out to them most of the time, right? [25:05.810 --> 25:07.690] We do get them to come in to us. [25:07.690 --> 25:10.830] I don't think we really get, we don't get really that many, you know, [25:10.830 --> 25:13.050] because we're the agency, right? [25:13.050 --> 25:16.610] They're always wanting to, for us, we're going out to them. [25:16.610 --> 25:17.930] So they're usually just replying. [25:17.930 --> 25:19.910] So I haven't got, oh my goodness, a lot of terrible questions. [25:19.910 --> 25:22.270] I'm going to say to you, Catherine, you have to stop coming to me first. [25:22.270 --> 25:25.370] Maybe I take inspiration from everybody else's amazing stories. [25:25.370 --> 25:29.610] Well, at least we're starting to flesh out the order of who should answer the questions, right? [25:29.610 --> 25:30.970] Rachel's going to go last. [25:30.970 --> 25:32.050] Rachel last. [25:32.050 --> 25:33.010] Yeah, absolutely. [25:33.010 --> 25:33.670] Yeah. [25:34.550 --> 25:35.950] I need more vodka. [25:35.950 --> 25:40.990] Chris, you know, so many other agencies. [25:41.170 --> 25:46.190] Come on, you've got to have seen a really bad subject line out there. [25:47.790 --> 25:50.550] Um, I'll tell you, okay. [25:50.550 --> 25:53.170] I'll tell you a subject line, an outgoing one. [25:53.170 --> 25:55.390] So I'm going to slightly change the story. [25:55.930 --> 25:58.130] And it's a completely true story. [25:58.130 --> 26:00.210] It's the company I worked for before this. [26:00.210 --> 26:02.590] And it was somebody in their London office. [26:02.590 --> 26:06.890] And they used to get a good candidate in and mail them out. [26:07.210 --> 26:09.390] And they had a candidate. [26:10.210 --> 26:14.030] And again, diversity wise, you know, it was a tech IT. [26:14.110 --> 26:17.510] We don't get many women in IT. [26:17.750 --> 26:21.190] And we used to have like really, really high ratios. [26:21.190 --> 26:24.390] If you had a good female candidate, you knew you were going to place them. [26:24.410 --> 26:28.150] And so everybody was really pushed to get their resume and get them out the door. [26:29.090 --> 26:31.810] Now, you'd hope people would do that respectfully. [26:32.510 --> 26:35.330] One of the consultants sent out an email. [26:35.330 --> 26:38.150] And it was, the lady's name was Debbie. [26:38.190 --> 26:41.090] And she was a desktop support candidate. [26:41.090 --> 26:45.510] And the entitled the email outgoing, Debbie does desktop. [26:51.110 --> 26:51.850] Yeah. [26:52.570 --> 26:54.490] Final written warning for that one. [26:54.490 --> 26:56.310] That may be a dated reference. [26:56.310 --> 26:57.270] I don't know. [26:58.170 --> 27:02.770] I don't know how many people under the age of, I don't know, maybe 30 or... [27:03.890 --> 27:05.370] Yeah, watch it, Matt. [27:05.370 --> 27:06.290] Watch it. [27:08.250 --> 27:09.010] Yeah. [27:11.010 --> 27:14.990] Matt, I'm going to go to you. [27:14.990 --> 27:19.790] Any, any good sort of pickup lines, subject headers? [27:21.090 --> 27:22.770] I'm going to disappoint you on this one. [27:22.770 --> 27:24.350] I don't, I don't have one. [27:24.350 --> 27:26.010] I haven't, I haven't heard of one. [27:26.010 --> 27:27.610] I know there's, there's a bunch out there. [27:27.610 --> 27:30.090] And I couldn't think of anything before we got on here. [27:30.090 --> 27:36.410] But I would, I would say anything in all caps is probably the worst thing ever. [27:36.490 --> 27:40.470] If we're going to get real about advice, if that's what we're here for, [27:40.470 --> 27:44.030] all caps, something is, is, is just bad. [27:44.050 --> 27:46.970] I've gotten a couple of those and it's, I don't know. [27:47.270 --> 27:48.270] It's odd. [27:48.270 --> 27:49.330] I don't like it. [27:49.910 --> 27:53.090] So I wish I had a better story for you, but I don't. [27:53.090 --> 27:54.350] Going to go to Pete. [27:54.350 --> 27:55.990] Get me a job now. [27:56.190 --> 27:58.390] Yeah, I, I get a lot of those. [27:58.390 --> 27:59.930] I am job. [28:00.210 --> 28:01.970] So that's the worst. [28:01.970 --> 28:07.590] So Pete, and then we're going to have Rachel wrap it up with what is the best pickup line. [28:07.590 --> 28:08.570] So Pete. [28:08.710 --> 28:15.630] So the best one that I can think of is one that I got from an agency when I was working, [28:15.630 --> 28:18.370] one of my old companies when I had first gone to the corporate side of things. [28:18.370 --> 28:22.370] It was from an agency and it was, I want to be inside you, [28:22.370 --> 28:25.010] was the subject line, dot, dot, dot. [28:25.010 --> 28:31.390] And then I opened the email because of course it couldn't open the email and it said, [28:31.390 --> 28:32.330] dot, dot, dot. [28:32.330 --> 28:37.910] It had an R, headquarters, walking my employee in for their first day. [28:37.910 --> 28:42.170] So what the message really was, I want to be in your headquarters, walking in my employee [28:42.170 --> 28:43.350] for their first day. [28:43.510 --> 28:47.970] And I was like, oh, but the subject line was just, I want to be inside you. [28:48.450 --> 28:50.890] I was a little disappointed when I opened it up. [28:50.890 --> 28:53.510] I was really hoping for something a little bit better. [28:53.510 --> 28:58.450] But again, I clearly, I don't get all these really good ones that some of you guys get. [28:59.470 --> 29:00.850] Okay, Rachel. [29:01.150 --> 29:02.210] Well, first I'm judging. [29:02.210 --> 29:05.730] So let me get off my judgment seat that Pete opened that email. [29:05.930 --> 29:06.970] And second... [29:09.170 --> 29:12.050] You obviously don't know Pete that well. [29:12.130 --> 29:16.030] I was behind the safety and solitude of a VPN at the time. [29:16.030 --> 29:16.770] There you go. [29:16.770 --> 29:17.730] Okay, you were safe. [29:17.730 --> 29:20.870] Well, then my judgment is, I will postpone my judgment for later. [29:20.890 --> 29:23.710] No, I don't really have, I'm kind of with Matt. [29:23.710 --> 29:26.310] I don't have anything fantastic. [29:26.310 --> 29:27.790] You know, do you come here often? [29:27.790 --> 29:31.150] I mean, I don't really hear too many of that. [29:31.150 --> 29:34.870] I mean, I haven't seen any just other ones that just convince you, [29:34.870 --> 29:36.730] oh, I'm so sorry about your loss. [29:36.770 --> 29:40.410] You open it up and it's how can we help you fill it, you know, or things like that. [29:40.410 --> 29:42.790] But nothing just fantastic. [29:42.790 --> 29:43.910] So I'm sorry. [29:43.910 --> 29:47.610] I am probably going to be demoted to like third in line now. [29:47.610 --> 29:51.330] No, that whip story is going to carry you all the way through. [29:52.850 --> 29:54.950] I wish I still had it. [29:54.950 --> 29:57.110] Well, that's another story. [29:58.770 --> 30:00.150] Okay, next question. [30:00.150 --> 30:04.910] What is the worst excuse you've heard for missing an interview? [30:04.910 --> 30:06.450] Who wants to go first? [30:08.850 --> 30:10.410] I mean, that was my question. [30:10.410 --> 30:11.750] So it'd be really easy for me. [30:11.750 --> 30:14.430] It's one of the few ones I can go first on. [30:14.950 --> 30:16.030] I've got an answer. [30:16.030 --> 30:16.910] I've got an answer. [30:18.070 --> 30:19.490] I should have really. [30:21.650 --> 30:22.990] Probably two of them. [30:22.990 --> 30:26.590] One person we rang and rang. [30:26.910 --> 30:29.110] They just didn't turn up for their interview. [30:29.630 --> 30:32.690] Rung them to confirm before, like in the morning. [30:32.770 --> 30:34.510] Didn't answer us. [30:35.170 --> 30:36.410] Rung them again. [30:36.590 --> 30:38.750] Warned the client we haven't managed to get hold of them. [30:38.750 --> 30:39.590] They might not be able to. [30:39.590 --> 30:42.030] They might not be turning up, but we spoke to them yesterday. [30:42.030 --> 30:42.790] Fine. [30:42.850 --> 30:47.290] Got a phone call in from the candidate's brother saying, [30:47.610 --> 30:49.710] unfortunately, he'd passed away. [30:50.810 --> 30:58.730] Then a week and a half later, that candidate's resume was applying for another job. [30:58.730 --> 31:03.570] And somebody spoke to them and it was the same candidate. [31:03.570 --> 31:05.390] He'd resurrected. [31:05.390 --> 31:09.430] His name wasn't Jesus, but he's resurrected himself in a week and a half [31:09.430 --> 31:13.630] and was denying all knowledge of having an interview. [31:14.090 --> 31:16.470] It was such a weird conversation. [31:16.470 --> 31:22.210] We had the resurrected candidate and then also did have a candidate who didn't miss the interview. [31:23.090 --> 31:27.250] And I will say these date back quite a bit. [31:27.250 --> 31:30.690] So I feel like I'm dealing with more professional people nowadays. [31:32.050 --> 31:34.430] He celebrated his last day as a company. [31:34.430 --> 31:36.130] He had an interview the next day. [31:36.130 --> 31:37.990] Couldn't get hold of him in the morning. [31:38.250 --> 31:41.370] And then he rang us back an hour before his interview and said, [31:41.370 --> 31:43.270] Oh, I'm really sorry. [31:44.010 --> 31:46.370] I had too much to drink last night. [31:46.370 --> 31:49.090] I'm running a bit late, but I am going to make it. [31:49.310 --> 31:50.670] And I will make it on time. [31:50.670 --> 31:56.670] Is there any way you could tell the client I'm a bit disheveled because I'm in last night's suit? [31:57.370 --> 31:58.430] So he said it was my last day. [31:58.430 --> 32:00.230] And I was like, no, honestly, we can delay it. [32:00.230 --> 32:01.630] We can delay it. [32:01.630 --> 32:03.230] We can do something about it. [32:03.230 --> 32:04.530] No, no, I don't want to miss out now. [32:04.530 --> 32:05.590] I really want to go. [32:06.190 --> 32:08.910] And I said, is there anything else we need to tell them? [32:08.990 --> 32:10.290] And he said, yeah. [32:10.970 --> 32:14.870] So I've got a little bit of claret, as we call it. [32:14.870 --> 32:16.110] It isn't wine in England. [32:16.570 --> 32:20.130] I've got some claret down my suit, is what he said. [32:20.210 --> 32:24.670] He would actually spend the night in the jail for drunken disorderly. [32:24.670 --> 32:27.670] And he'd cut himself and he had blood all over his suit. [32:27.670 --> 32:30.250] And he was trying to convince us he still wanted to go to the interview. [32:30.250 --> 32:32.890] We needlessly didn't go ahead. [32:32.890 --> 32:35.410] We pulled that one back and changed it. [32:36.430 --> 32:38.750] We gotta admire his determination, though. [32:38.750 --> 32:39.230] Yeah. [32:39.230 --> 32:39.930] Yeah. [32:39.930 --> 32:41.610] I mean, he wasn't going to drop out. [32:41.610 --> 32:43.730] I mean, he really wanted the job. [32:43.730 --> 32:44.770] Yeah. [32:46.510 --> 32:49.010] So Pete, worst excuse? [32:49.450 --> 32:52.530] So I want to curveball a little here. [32:52.530 --> 32:55.050] Like, this person didn't miss the interview. [32:55.050 --> 32:56.550] They made it to the interview. [32:56.550 --> 32:58.830] It was during college recruiting season. [32:58.990 --> 33:04.450] And they had come in late the night before and had gotten there. [33:04.450 --> 33:07.790] And so they didn't get a chance to eat and came in in the morning. [33:07.790 --> 33:15.730] And they sat down for the interview and was clearly having some discomfort partway through [33:15.730 --> 33:23.550] the interview and visibly squirming in the seat, not really able to maintain their composure. [33:23.550 --> 33:29.390] Started to sweat a bit and realized that, like, there was going to be an incident relatively [33:29.390 --> 33:31.090] soon if we didn't do something. [33:32.450 --> 33:40.450] So that poor person, it turns out, picked up some Taco Bell for breakfast on the way in that day. [33:40.610 --> 33:47.610] And on the way making it to the Fortress of Solitude, if you will, where they would have [33:47.610 --> 33:53.590] been safe to do their business, unfortunately didn't quite make it to the room where you do [33:53.590 --> 34:00.550] that first and had a little bit of an accident all the way down the hallway leading up to the [34:02.230 --> 34:02.750] bathroom. [34:02.750 --> 34:02.990] Wow. [34:03.070 --> 34:10.310] Was so disheveled in there and the clothes were so ruined that they couldn't leave the bathroom. [34:11.850 --> 34:17.350] And what ended up happening is that he had to call out for help so that somebody could hear [34:17.350 --> 34:23.010] him in the bathroom, which ended up, long story short, because this could go on for hours. You [34:23.010 --> 34:30.170] could actually find it on Reddit. You called out, wound up, long story short, our CTO [34:30.170 --> 34:37.510] had to go and go to the Gap and buy him new pants so that he could come out of the bathroom. [34:37.610 --> 34:43.370] He came out of the bathroom and out of sheer nicety, they said, [34:43.370 --> 34:48.070] do you want to finish the interview? And he's like, no, I'm pretty sure I'm not getting this job. [34:48.830 --> 34:51.470] Or would ever take it if you got it. [34:51.730 --> 34:54.870] Even if you get offered, are you going to take it? [34:55.670 --> 35:02.250] Yeah, but you can find it on Reddit. It was an amazing story. [35:03.110 --> 35:07.390] Okay. Does anyone want to top that or at least equal that? [35:08.370 --> 35:13.930] No, but there's one I want to share. I want to share one that we had and it's in the same guys. [35:14.090 --> 35:16.910] It was not because they missed the interview. [35:18.430 --> 35:24.510] They didn't even get... where I used to work, we used to do a recruiter, just a pre-interview [35:25.050 --> 35:29.250] discussion, you know, 20 minutes just to get them prepped, get them ready for who they're going to [35:29.250 --> 35:36.830] meet. And this didn't happen to me, it happened to a coworker. Again, college recruiting. So [35:37.510 --> 35:44.690] young folks, please, please know what you're doing and how to accept bad news. [35:44.690 --> 35:54.410] Um, she showed up with, yeah, this was kind of early 2000s, but it looked like she came right [35:54.410 --> 36:02.270] out of like a grunge band concert, right? Just the red flannel shirt tied up around, you know, and [36:03.090 --> 36:09.670] it's like, all right, that's, we'll talk to you a little bit. But we did, she ended up, [36:09.670 --> 36:14.670] we ended up not letting her go any further, right? We were like, look, you're not ready for this. [36:14.690 --> 36:20.450] I think you've, you need to learn a little bit about interviewing and being ready for interviews. [36:20.450 --> 36:27.190] This is not the job at, you know, Walmart or whatever. She said, okay, well, I appreciate that. [36:27.370 --> 36:32.830] Can I drop off some flyers for my band? We're playing up the street in a couple of weeks. I'm [36:32.830 --> 36:42.350] like, and she left the whole stack of flyers with us for her band. Like, it's the weirdest thing we [36:42.350 --> 36:48.730] ever saw. It's not, it's not poop down the hall. Sorry, Pete, but... I don't have crap either, [36:48.730 --> 36:57.330] but I do have blood. I mean, I had, I have blood. Does that count? Okay, good. You gotta share that, Rachel. [36:57.470 --> 37:04.190] She beat her ex-husband with a golf club because found him with another woman, ended up in jail [37:04.990 --> 37:10.170] and called from jail her one phone call to let me know she was going to be late, [37:10.170 --> 37:17.810] but she would be bailed out. Wow. So the moral of the stories here is that if you go to jail, [37:17.810 --> 37:22.730] you clearly want the job. Absolutely. And you make sure you have your recruiter's number [37:22.730 --> 37:30.210] as your only phone call. Just saying. Yeah. That is the number one, like, moral of that story. [37:30.210 --> 37:38.650] And she didn't, she didn't get the job. Oh, come on! Wasted phone call. You know, in my head, I'm like, [37:38.650 --> 37:45.010] oh, please, Lord, don't make her get out of jail. She forgot. She only had one phone call. She was [37:45.010 --> 37:51.010] supposed to be calling to get her bail. Thank you. And then she was stuck. Thank you. It was, [37:51.010 --> 37:54.830] it was a precious moment. Needless to say, this is another candidate that I followed [37:54.830 --> 38:03.630] in the news and continued to beat her husband. So great story. Welcome to Louisiana. [38:06.410 --> 38:08.270] Got to have a passport. [38:11.500 --> 38:20.840] I knew Rachel would be a great addition to this team. Yes. So, okay, I'm going to move on to our [38:20.840 --> 38:28.860] next question, which is what is the worst interview faux pas you have ever seen? Rachel, I'm going to [38:28.860 --> 38:34.360] kick it off with you so that you set the standard for everyone else. Well, I am afraid I am going to [38:34.360 --> 38:40.740] set this bar low, but I'm going to try real hard. Probably the one that sticks out so much in my [38:40.740 --> 38:47.820] mind was an interview that I was participating in, and the gentleman was angry at life. He was angry [38:47.820 --> 38:52.640] that he woke up in the morning. He was angry that he drove his car to the interview. He was angry [38:52.640 --> 39:00.300] about everything to the point where he was coming across the table at us with anger about everything. [39:00.300 --> 39:05.480] At the end of the interview, he wanted to talk a lot about how much the job was going to pay [39:06.240 --> 39:11.980] and everything else. We were like, we were fearing for our lives at this moment because there was a [39:11.980 --> 39:16.860] threat against us if we didn't hire him, a threat against the company if we didn't hire him, and [39:17.300 --> 39:21.180] everything else. But then he wanted to make sure that we were very clear on what his salary [39:22.800 --> 39:27.680] expectations were and when could he start. So, that was probably the one that sticks out the [39:27.680 --> 39:33.520] most was just the sheer anger talking about the things he wanted to do to his former employer and [39:33.520 --> 39:38.260] how he was going to execute these things. I mean, very vivid conversations about [39:39.180 --> 39:44.260] how that should have ended. So, we did have to call the police afterwards because there were [39:44.260 --> 39:49.960] very visible threats against his previous employer, and I didn't want to walk out to my car by myself [39:49.960 --> 39:56.460] that night. So, it was not a great time, and again, moral of the story, he didn't get the job. [39:58.320 --> 40:02.440] So, Chris, any good ones to tell? [40:04.020 --> 40:09.740] A couple of times we've had managers actually [40:09.740 --> 40:16.980] interview people for the completely wrong job. So, we get this feedback and it doesn't [40:16.980 --> 40:21.260] make any sense, and then we speak to them, and it has happened more than once, and then the [40:21.260 --> 40:27.660] managers are like, oh, I interviewed them for this job, I got them mixed up with this other candidate, [40:27.680 --> 40:33.340] so, I mean, dealing with that, the fallout of that, is absolutely no fun. I mean, it must be [40:33.340 --> 40:37.460] the worst. Can you imagine, you're getting asked all these questions, and it's not even for your [40:37.460 --> 40:41.300] job, you can't answer any of them, you're an expert in your field, and you're like, why are they even [40:41.300 --> 40:47.020] asking me this? So, that's probably the biggest faux pas, and it hasn't happened just [40:47.020 --> 40:53.280] once, unfortunately. Yeah, that's probably the most awkward one to deal with. [40:54.740 --> 41:02.280] Pete? I think the weirdest thing I've seen happen in an interview that I sort of [41:02.280 --> 41:07.460] shook my head at is, I was interviewing somebody, this is an experienced person, I mean, [41:07.600 --> 41:14.720] a good solid 15, 20 years of experience, and he, I mean, I had noticed that he didn't have [41:14.720 --> 41:21.340] any socks on with his suit, which is fine, man, like, Don Johnson did it, you do your thing, but [41:21.340 --> 41:27.480] it, he took his shoes off in the middle of the interview, and like, put his, you know, leg up, [41:27.480 --> 41:34.120] you know, crossed his legs, and I mean, I might have been okay with it if you'd had like a mani [41:34.120 --> 41:40.860] pedi that day, but that was not the case, and it was not pleasant, and I actually had to stop [41:40.860 --> 41:48.020] things, I'm all for your comfort, and your, you know, how you want to live, but you got to put [41:48.020 --> 41:54.360] shoes back on, because we were in a, you know, nine by nine room, and it was, it was getting a [41:54.360 --> 42:00.940] little raunchy in there. I'm just going to say, I was in the same boat, but the person was picking [42:00.940 --> 42:07.540] their toenails. Yes, I had one of those. That was going to be one of my stories, I was going to ask, [42:07.540 --> 42:12.720] I was going to ask if they picked their toenails while they did it. Yeah, go for it, Matt. No, [42:12.720 --> 42:19.020] I won't go there, because he told the story, just changed the, crossed their legs to, to pick their [42:19.020 --> 42:26.580] toenails the whole time, but so I'll, I'll, I'll do another one, and this is on a hiring manager side. [42:28.420 --> 42:34.900] You know, I love it when hiring managers are real quick on, on getting that feedback back to us, [42:36.200 --> 42:40.440] and, and, and when you got a hiring manager who knows how to use the applicant tracking system, [42:40.440 --> 42:46.280] and, and knows what the buttons are, and what they do. I, I love that, all right, just, just for [42:46.280 --> 42:49.620] all you hiring managers out there. I really appreciate when you, when you know how to use [42:49.620 --> 42:55.360] the system. I just wish that you would wait more than 15 minutes after the interview, [42:56.160 --> 43:04.720] and maybe even after the person's driven away from the building to reject them, and to know [43:04.720 --> 43:11.440] that you can actually send the rejection yourself, because we had that happen, and the person [43:12.000 --> 43:18.540] got the rejection letter. It was just a stupid, templated rejection letter, right? I'm like, [43:18.540 --> 43:25.000] why would you do that? The person came back, because he hadn't even left the parking lot yet, [43:26.420 --> 43:31.720] hadn't left the parking lot yet, and came back upstairs and asked to talk to me. I'm like, [43:31.720 --> 43:39.300] um, yeah, it's like, uh, I just got this email from, from, you know, your system, and it says [43:39.300 --> 43:44.620] I was rejected, but it was just, I had to sit there, and I hadn't even had a chance to debrief [43:44.620 --> 43:49.620] with the person yet. I didn't even know what, I thought the guy came back, because he was, [43:49.620 --> 43:55.120] you know, he forgot something, or, or, you know, whatever it was, and yeah, he wanted to know right [43:55.120 --> 44:00.160] then and there why he was rejected, and I had to actually go find the manager, and find out [44:00.160 --> 44:04.420] what the reasons were, and they weren't really good reasons either, so I had to kind of [44:04.420 --> 44:10.780] figure out what it was that I could say to this person, and it really put me in a bad spot that [44:10.780 --> 44:19.200] day. Nothing like tap dancing for somebody else's mistake. Yep. So we, we've talked a lot about [44:19.200 --> 44:26.860] what candidates have done wrong. We've talked a little bit about sort of our, you know, processes [44:26.860 --> 44:33.100] that might not go well. Just wanted to go around the room and sort of talk about, you know, the [44:33.100 --> 44:39.320] other, as Matt was kicking off there, that the hiring managers, who are the people that sort of [44:39.320 --> 44:45.140] do the final interviewing, what are some of the mistakes that you have seen them make? [44:45.800 --> 44:52.660] Matt had a really good one. Rachel, Chris, Pete, who wants to kick off next? [44:57.460 --> 45:00.160] You guys, you internal guys must have some good ones. [45:00.160 --> 45:03.160] I mean, there's really good stuff to choose from. [45:03.160 --> 45:08.180] Yeah, mine interviewing, yeah, I think just interviewing the people for the wrong jobs is [45:08.180 --> 45:13.640] always like, that's always the worst, and the worst one I've had to deal with. Yeah, you got, [45:13.640 --> 45:15.860] you internal guys must have some good ones, surely. [45:16.100 --> 45:23.140] I definitely had a, yeah, I worked for, well, I work for a company, if I give too much details, [45:23.140 --> 45:28.760] but it's not my current company, but I worked for a company where I had a candidate, [45:29.460 --> 45:36.300] fairly senior level candidate, call me after the interview, like two hours after it was over, [45:36.300 --> 45:40.160] and I said, okay, well, I don't have the feedback. And he's like, I don't care about the feedback. [45:40.160 --> 45:45.180] He's like, I just have to ask you a question. So, okay, he's like, is it possible that, [45:45.180 --> 45:51.240] insert hiring manager's name here, was drunk during my interview? I said, I'm not sure how [45:51.240 --> 45:57.580] you mean, like, I, my mentality went, I'm not sure how you mean, it was 10 o'clock AM interview, [45:57.580 --> 46:02.660] like, what do you mean? He's like, no, no, no, I come from a long line of alcoholics, [46:02.660 --> 46:06.160] and I'm pretty sure I know what somebody who's been drinking looks like. And I'm like, [46:06.580 --> 46:15.260] I said, well, yeah, me too, but like, it's 10 AM. And he said, no, about four weeks later, [46:15.260 --> 46:22.660] we did let that hiring manager go, because apparently for weeks on end was showing up to [46:22.660 --> 46:29.660] work drunk, and just masquerading through the day on that. So note to self, like, don't interview [46:29.660 --> 46:36.440] people when you're drunk. We did not. Like, we won't be interviewing anybody right now, [46:36.440 --> 46:40.300] is what you're saying? Yeah, hopefully not. No interviewing. [46:41.740 --> 46:46.940] Got it. So Rachel, any good hiring manager? [46:47.520 --> 46:52.260] You know, I love the ones that really want to pull back the layers and better understand the [46:52.260 --> 46:58.100] candidate by asking questions about, so when are you due? And the person's not pregnant, [46:58.100 --> 47:04.440] that was a super fun one. Or, you know, tell me more about why you can't work because of your [47:04.440 --> 47:11.860] children, or all of the things that were like, you said what? You know, those are the ones that [47:11.860 --> 47:17.220] stick out the most in my mind. And even sitting in with hiring managers on interviews, I'm always [47:17.220 --> 47:24.300] taken back at the liberties, sometimes of just, well, I just, you know, I have it in my gut. And [47:24.300 --> 47:29.480] I'm like, no, it's actually written down, you just need to read it. That's what we need your gut to [47:29.480 --> 47:34.800] be. And so I think that's the piece that's always the most interesting for me is the gut [47:35.360 --> 47:41.400] questions that come out. That completely puts you in a litigious spot in the spot where you're like, [47:41.400 --> 47:46.580] we're just not making good decisions right now, friends. And so I think those are the ones that [47:46.580 --> 47:53.460] stick out the most. But the one that was clearly not pregnant, and asked when she was due, [47:53.460 --> 48:00.340] I had to deescalate that one. And that was not fun. So don't ever ask, even if you think don't, [48:00.340 --> 48:07.620] don't ask. It's sound advice to make sure hiring managers know, like, don't type anything out that [48:07.620 --> 48:13.000] you don't want to repeat in court. Thank you. But it does not stop at the hiring manager. [48:13.000 --> 48:19.320] That's your entire interview team, because some of those people are staff level, you know, [48:19.320 --> 48:25.140] software engineer, whatever level you are, because we... I say we, but this is before [48:25.860 --> 48:33.280] tenable. Somebody was was diagnosing somebody, like mentally in their feedback evaluation form. [48:34.160 --> 48:38.760] And it was in the record. In writing. Yeah. [48:39.700 --> 48:43.460] What were you doing during that session? [48:43.460 --> 48:45.120] Help me understand. That's the question that always comes up. [48:45.120 --> 48:49.300] Help me understand what you were thinking when you wrote this down. [48:49.300 --> 48:51.680] But can they code? [48:53.720 --> 48:54.460] Right? [48:55.500 --> 48:58.600] It's like crazy all day. Just gotta code. [48:59.500 --> 49:00.060] So guys... [49:00.060 --> 49:01.340] Bless their hearts. [49:01.400 --> 49:07.580] Bless their souls. Bless their heart. I actually have the Garden and Gun, [49:07.580 --> 49:13.140] Bless Your Heart trivia. So Rachel, we might have to play that. [49:13.140 --> 49:16.260] Yeah, we're both drinking red wine. We're good kindred spirits here. [49:16.460 --> 49:19.120] We're good there. So... [49:19.300 --> 49:25.720] Guys, ladies, lady, we're done. You know, we've gotten to the end. [49:25.740 --> 49:32.460] So I'm going to say I'm going to go around Robin. I'm going to have the lady go last. [49:32.580 --> 49:39.000] But I want each one of you to give a top tip to the job seekers in the community [49:39.000 --> 49:43.680] on what they need to do in their job search. So Chris, you're first. [49:44.640 --> 49:46.020] Be honest. [49:46.580 --> 49:48.740] Stand by the line. That's it. [49:49.180 --> 49:49.840] Matt? [49:49.840 --> 49:50.860] Just be honest. [49:52.700 --> 49:56.620] Know what you're applying to. You know, there's a lot of CR applicants out there [49:56.620 --> 50:00.140] that apply to every single job that a particular company wants. [50:00.140 --> 50:02.860] I understand you want a job and you need a job. [50:03.040 --> 50:07.420] Or you're trying to find something so you're not the last person in a sinking ship. [50:09.020 --> 50:13.660] But apply to something that you know you can do most of the job with. [50:14.200 --> 50:16.460] You have most of the skills to do the job. [50:18.080 --> 50:20.800] And just be interested in it. [50:22.040 --> 50:23.000] Pete? [50:24.260 --> 50:28.460] Just have somebody... get a second set of eyeballs on your resume. [50:29.360 --> 50:32.720] None of us are published writers to my knowledge. [50:32.960 --> 50:37.800] So get a second, you know, set of eyes on your resume just to get it looked at [50:37.800 --> 50:40.020] to make sure everything looks the way that it should. [50:40.020 --> 50:43.660] It's hard to write a document like that and stare at it after a while [50:43.660 --> 50:45.220] it all starts to look the same. [50:45.380 --> 50:48.620] So, yeah, just, you know, once over I think is helpful. [50:49.680 --> 50:51.000] And Rachel? [50:51.700 --> 50:55.600] It's simple. We're going to spend a little bit of time looking at each resume. [50:55.600 --> 51:00.560] When you put your pictures and there's colors and there's too many cutesy-tootsies on there, [51:00.560 --> 51:01.680] we get lost. [51:01.680 --> 51:06.240] So just keep it simple. Tell us what you can do and what we're applying for [51:06.240 --> 51:10.500] and or what you're applying for and everyone's life is much simpler. [51:11.400 --> 51:18.940] Well, I want to thank all of my friends, Pete, Rachel, Matt, and Chris for coming together on a [51:18.940 --> 51:24.580] Friday night to have a few drinks and share that recruiters are humans too. [51:24.580 --> 51:27.840] They want to be your best friends, want to be your advocates. [51:28.580 --> 51:33.540] So take the time, reach out to a recruiter, make sure you have recruiters in your network [51:33.540 --> 51:38.180] because they are the people that are going to advocate for you to find the next best job. [51:38.180 --> 51:41.660] And remember that we have recruiters in resume review, [51:41.660 --> 51:46.140] and we have people who are in career coaching that can help you. [51:46.140 --> 51:50.660] So thank you everyone for coming to Career Hacking Village and have a great evening. [51:51.100 --> 51:52.020] Cheers. [51:52.080 --> 51:53.120] Thank you.