WEBVTT 00:04.310 --> 00:06.810 Welcome back to the Hacking Career Village. 00:06.810 --> 00:12.370 We're just so excited that we've had so many great presentations these two days. 00:12.370 --> 00:22.470 I really want to thank all of our speakers for taking the time to pre-record these discussions and then being available in Discord to be able to answer your one-on-one questions. 00:22.470 --> 00:39.770 Today we have a good friend from the Twittersphere, Roy Watanason, who is going to talk a little bit about the key ingredients for job interviews, which are very important these days because once you get through all of the search and you finally get that interview, 00:39.770 --> 00:42.310 you want to make sure you're on top of your game for that. 00:42.310 --> 00:43.930 So Roy, take it away. 00:44.850 --> 00:45.830 Great, thank you. 00:45.830 --> 00:50.810 Thank you very much, Kathleen, and actually the Career Hacking Village. 00:50.810 --> 00:53.150 This is, I think, this is the first time this year. 00:53.150 --> 01:00.050 So first off, thanks to Kathleen and the entire team for having this opportunity as well. 01:00.050 --> 01:04.370 And also just wanted to thank everyone for tuning in today. 01:04.370 --> 01:12.370 So yeah, first off, I'm going to kind of talk about the key ingredients for job interviews, whether virtual or face-to-face. 01:12.870 --> 01:25.110 The first thing that I always like to do in all my presentations is that I don't accept responsibility for any of the, liable for any of the actions or if I have any inaccurate information as well. 01:25.110 --> 01:31.170 And of course, the presentation doesn't represent any of the organizations that I have worked for. 01:31.170 --> 01:36.270 And of course, this is not, this is absolutely not a one-size-fits-all at all. 01:36.270 --> 01:37.770 And again, it depends. 01:37.770 --> 01:42.110 It's very contingent on the individual, individuals as well. 01:42.530 --> 01:44.450 So first off, yeah, who am I? 01:44.450 --> 01:46.690 Healthcare professional, etc. 01:46.910 --> 01:52.170 Yeah, basically taught at Brandeis University for over 10 years, created the program there. 01:52.170 --> 01:59.390 And yeah, I really enjoy data forensics, incident response, healthcare security, application security, and IoT, Internet of Things. 01:59.390 --> 02:05.850 Obviously, the picture that you see on the right bottom is actually not my picture. 02:05.850 --> 02:15.470 There's a great website based on machine learning and artificial intelligence that actually creates different images of people based on, you know, different things as well. 02:15.470 --> 02:16.990 And it's not a real person at all. 02:16.990 --> 02:19.450 So you can actually go to that link to get more information. 02:20.030 --> 02:33.390 So the agenda for today is, actually, I thought that these were the steps in regards to preparing for the job interview or being more successful at it. 02:33.390 --> 02:36.570 Number one, we're going to talk about the preparation stage. 02:36.590 --> 02:40.630 Number two, about looking great because you always have to look good. 02:40.630 --> 02:44.510 Doesn't matter if it's virtual or a face-to-face presentation. 02:44.650 --> 02:47.250 Resume review, we'll talk about that too. 02:47.250 --> 02:48.870 And really exuding confidence. 02:48.870 --> 02:51.210 The more confidence, the better as well. 02:51.390 --> 02:57.230 And also talk about some note-taking strategies as well. 02:57.230 --> 03:00.130 And also asking back. 03:00.370 --> 03:06.490 Not only do you keep answering questions, you should also ask a lot of questions too. 03:06.490 --> 03:07.970 We'll talk about that too. 03:07.970 --> 03:10.430 And I actually added one more thing too. 03:10.430 --> 03:13.190 And the other one was trying again. 03:13.190 --> 03:17.790 We'll talk more about that and really to address any specific questions as well. 03:18.090 --> 03:27.030 So first off, during the preparation stage, think about when you're on engagements or a project. 03:27.030 --> 03:32.930 Or actually, let's say you're doing some kind of lead teaming, red teaming, penetration test, etc. 03:32.930 --> 03:38.070 You want to really do a reconnaissance on the opportunity or the job offer. 03:38.070 --> 03:40.570 Remember that it's not a one-size-fits-all. 03:40.570 --> 03:51.230 Things that are advertised in the job description are sometimes not always the things that you or the candidates or the individual is going to do. 03:51.230 --> 03:53.870 So you want to prepare as much as possible. 03:53.870 --> 04:05.990 So like what I like to say is kind of doing your reconnaissance on the opportunity, talking to people inside the company, or if you know anyone in your social networking profiles, etc. 04:05.990 --> 04:10.310 or your conferences, talk to people that may know people in the company. 04:10.310 --> 04:20.430 Because chances are you'll get a much more in-depth overview of the company and the opportunity that you are applying for. 04:20.430 --> 04:30.010 Also at the same time, for those of you who are virtual, just like as we are having physical face-to-face conversations during the interview, etc. 04:30.430 --> 04:37.930 For those of you that are virtual, especially during these times, you want to ensure that you test all your equipment, lighting, etc. 04:37.930 --> 04:40.270 and do that ahead of time too. 04:40.270 --> 04:47.630 Also at the same time, prepare yourself not only on the specific technical questions and non-technical requirements. 04:47.630 --> 04:50.630 I like to call this like doing your homework. 04:50.870 --> 05:04.290 Think about things outside the box and also try to look at the different non-technical skills like the communication skills, teams building skills, additional leadership skills as well. 05:04.290 --> 05:12.090 If you don't have the experience, you can substitute it by relevant coursework, you know, for those of you in school, etc. 05:12.090 --> 05:20.030 or part-time and some other, you know, other opportunities like taking a class online, for example, etc. 05:20.270 --> 05:26.270 Remember that presenting to different audiences is a very key ingredient. 05:26.370 --> 05:32.450 Not only presenting to technical people, but also presenting to non-technical people as well. 05:32.450 --> 05:44.790 And also what I, in addition to doing your reconnaissance on the opportunity or opportunities, performing your own risk assessment on the opportunity, job, job offer, etc. 05:44.850 --> 05:51.670 requirements and giving it a grade because just like as we're doing risk assessments on because every security, etc. 05:51.670 --> 05:57.950 is all about risk assessment even though there's so many different areas in it. 05:57.950 --> 05:58.870 Give it a grade. 05:58.870 --> 06:16.070 Maybe you have kind of like a spreadsheet that talks about the kind of the different things, location, environments, interviewing with different people that are there, external factors, for example, and other things, unknowns as well, things like that. 06:16.610 --> 06:19.410 Next is always about looking great. 06:19.410 --> 06:36.810 I can't stress this enough, but always trying to look good, present yourself in a way that even if the requirement says dress casually, you probably, you always probably want to show up in something that you're comfortable in, a business casual suit, it all depends as well. 06:36.810 --> 06:50.670 Even if it's virtual or face-to-face, remember when especially during these times when there are a lot of these virtual interviews now, you also want to be prepared for that in terms of looking your best, looking at the lighting, looking at your camera, 06:50.670 --> 06:54.970 looking at your sound as well, and practice makes perfect, you know. 06:54.970 --> 06:58.930 So the more you do it, the more you get better at it as well. 06:59.630 --> 07:03.670 Next is also talking about the kind of resume review. 07:03.670 --> 07:08.350 And I like to say that this, the resume review can be in different parts. 07:08.350 --> 07:21.730 It can be kind of the first step is really tailoring your resume even before applying for the job application or the job, for the job opportunity for example. 07:21.930 --> 07:27.650 Tailoring your resume so that it actually shows what you've accomplished. 07:27.650 --> 07:30.770 I always like to say that honesty is the best policy. 07:30.770 --> 07:45.550 If you don't know something, you can always say that it's something that you want to learn and also that maybe there are some additional courses or open source projects and software that that actually you can contribute to. 07:45.550 --> 07:47.430 It shows a lot of passion. 07:47.530 --> 08:00.830 It also, at the same time, you know, I also like to say is that the resume gets you into the door, but the interview, interviews are where the interviewers and the organization gets to know you. 08:00.970 --> 08:02.970 And it's a great thing too. 08:02.970 --> 08:17.070 And what I also like to say is again, as an individual that also reviews a lot of resumes when building the team, etc., you want to do something that people haven't done before. 08:17.110 --> 08:21.230 Obviously, you want to follow all of the resume guidelines. 08:21.230 --> 08:26.150 For example, you know, the number of pages, etc., based on your experience as well. 08:26.150 --> 08:31.290 But also at the same time, thinking outside the box, trying to do something that's different. 08:31.290 --> 08:38.350 So, for example, when let's say you apply for, give you an example, let's say you apply for an engineering job. 08:39.770 --> 08:48.450 Obviously, there are going to be a lot of engineering requirements and technical skills and verbal and communication skills as well. 08:49.130 --> 09:02.990 As someone that looks at resumes, I would say a lot too as well and looking to build a team, I would also stress that adding different things that can have you stand out from another individual. 09:02.990 --> 09:09.150 Because when you think about it, the organizations are always looking at potential candidates. 09:09.150 --> 09:12.530 What are some things that can make you stand out? 09:12.530 --> 09:18.790 For example, number one, maybe you may not have as much experience, but it's a great opportunity. 09:18.790 --> 09:20.330 It looks like it's a great opportunity. 09:20.330 --> 09:34.850 The first thing that you can do is participate in either conferences or volunteering or other projects, especially specifically open source projects that you can contribute to. 09:34.850 --> 09:38.530 It shows a lot of passion as well and, of course, motivation. 09:38.610 --> 09:49.130 Another thing that you can do is also including taking courses, especially, you know, I love to stress a lot of edX courses. 09:49.190 --> 09:55.730 So many opportunities now, especially now during the pandemic, that are free that you can take as well. 09:55.730 --> 10:00.170 Something that you're learning to build your skill set, basically. 10:00.170 --> 10:11.610 And remember that as IT professionals or information security professionals, and just like every other industry or profession, we're always developing our skills. 10:11.610 --> 10:23.690 And one of the main ingredients that I look for, thinking outside the box, a lot of people are going to answer a question this way or have their resume this way. 10:23.690 --> 10:30.470 So take a look at the job description and try to, you know, do like your own assessment in terms of what you can do and what you cannot do. 10:30.530 --> 10:40.950 And again, adding different things that where it shows more passionate and motivation as well to do the job, etc. 10:42.170 --> 10:45.950 Next , I want to talk about really exuding covenants. 10:45.950 --> 10:57.070 Obviously, it really depends if you're an introvert or an extrovert, but with preparation comes making sure that you understand the roles and responsibilities of the job. 10:57.070 --> 10:59.150 Not only the job, but the company. 10:59.150 --> 11:05.290 What's the organization's business mission, for example? 11:05.290 --> 11:09.100 Let's say for a healthcare company, maybe it's all about patients. 11:09.550 --> 11:20.930 So for example, when you're doing your job, or when you're part of the team doing your job, obviously, you don't want to be like a no team to everything. 11:20.930 --> 11:23.210 You know, so it has to support the business. 11:23.210 --> 11:26.550 And so look at the business mission as well. 11:26.550 --> 11:35.930 And educating yourself about not only the job details itself, but learning additional skill sets, etc. 11:35.930 --> 11:37.830 as well to apply on your job. 11:37.830 --> 11:42.290 And also preparing your questions to ask different people. 11:42.350 --> 11:45.210 This comes with confidence and experience too. 11:45.210 --> 11:51.050 Especially as you are doing more interviews, depending on the job opportunities. 11:51.050 --> 11:53.470 And now there are a lot of jobs opportunities. 11:53.910 --> 11:57.250 Prepare your questions, ask different questions to different people. 11:57.250 --> 12:03.530 Don't only answer those questions, but as you're doing your homework, getting more information about the company. 12:03.530 --> 12:10.490 For example, in the first stage, reconnaissance stage, getting to know people that are in the organization. 12:10.550 --> 12:15.350 Maybe there might not be like a direct link, but you can get some questions, etc. 12:15.390 --> 12:18.810 I'm going to talk about more of the questions that you should ask as well. 12:18.910 --> 12:31.970 And also really, when asking the questions, you want to ask open-ended questions so that it makes, just like the interviewer or interviewers, most of the time it's going to be interviewers. 12:31.970 --> 12:35.230 They're going to ask you open-ended questions because it doesn't... 12:36.810 --> 12:41.410 the interviewers don't want to have to see or don't want to hear like a yes or no answer. 12:41.410 --> 12:48.890 They want you to kind of like a scenario-based questions, chiming in how you think, how you apply, how you fix this problem. 12:48.890 --> 12:52.810 How do you negotiate when you have conflicts as well? 12:52.810 --> 13:05.610 So as a job applicant or applicants, you also want to ask these open-ended questions too, to have the organization open up and give you more information, not a yes or no. 13:05.830 --> 13:18.570 Because it will give you a lot of information in terms of, is this the right opportunity for you or what you're trying to do or pursue, for example. 13:18.570 --> 13:28.070 Because remember that just because the job description says something doesn't mean that it's going to be 100% what you will be doing, for example. 13:28.070 --> 13:45.370 And I'm not going to get into the specific job titles, etc., but there's been a lot of things where, you know, a lot of misrepresentation around job titles, etc., but that's another, that's going to be another talk. 13:45.370 --> 14:00.090 But just really, when you're building your confidence, and again, it comes with preparation, etc., and thinking outside the box, you can have all your pre-can open-ended questions to ask the interviewers, for example. 14:00.090 --> 14:08.590 So one of the things that, you know, that I do, for example, when preparing for the interview is, you know, I do my reconnaissance about the company. 14:08.710 --> 14:25.290 But usually what happens is that when the interview is scheduled, for example, human resources or, you know, the people, culture team, etc., they send a list of all the people that are going to be interviewing you. 14:25.290 --> 14:36.190 One of the things that I like to do, just like, is actually go to do a reconnaissance and actually see what job this, the potential interviewers will do. 14:36.190 --> 14:44.570 Because when HR, human resources, sends you that list, it actually shows the individual and actually the person's title as well. 14:44.570 --> 14:53.310 You can kind of do your reconnaissance to see how long the individual or interviewers have been in the company, for example, if it's advertised in there. 14:53.310 --> 15:02.230 Also, you can see kind of like some of the projects as well, as you are kind of like creating these questions too. 15:02.490 --> 15:08.750 So again, it's all about when you do your homework, you have more confidence to ask these questions. 15:08.750 --> 15:12.690 But without doing your homework, you won't be able to ask the questions. 15:12.690 --> 15:17.990 So that's what my challenge to everyone is basically to ask those questions. 15:18.030 --> 15:27.390 Do your homework so that you can ask those questions, so that you can see if this opportunity or requisition is the right one for you. 15:28.770 --> 15:31.210 Next, we'll be talking about note-taking. 15:31.350 --> 15:42.650 So first off, I really like, I think now, based on the electronic era, et cetera, you can bring your gadgets, et cetera, as well. 15:42.650 --> 15:48.070 But make sure that, you know, again, maybe it's on vibrate, so it doesn't impact your interviews, et cetera. 15:48.070 --> 15:55.270 I still like the traditional notebook or extra piece of paper regarding the questions that you want to ask each individual. 15:55.330 --> 16:06.410 So what I usually do during the interviews is, of course, as an applicant, I bring an empty sheet of paper in the front and also in the back. 16:06.410 --> 16:13.850 I actually have all of these open-ended challenge questions, open-ended questions for the interviewers as well. 16:13.850 --> 16:19.830 And because I cover it up, because number one, you know, it's really like a matter of choice as well. 16:19.910 --> 16:23.710 But that way, the interviewers don't see that as well. 16:23.710 --> 16:36.990 But then because your blank page will be about taking your notes, really following up for what things you want to ask the interviewer, or maybe it's a follow-up in terms of what the interviewer said as well. 16:37.370 --> 16:42.190 The reason that I take notes is just so that we remember. 16:42.190 --> 16:44.490 What happened, the gist as well. 16:44.490 --> 16:49.390 And again, it's like a CYA, cover your what opportunity as well. 16:49.390 --> 16:52.010 If not, he said, she said, etc. 16:52.010 --> 16:55.810 So that it's all captured in your notes as well. 16:55.970 --> 17:01.350 But I also like to say that, again, note-taking is a great, great thing. 17:01.350 --> 17:10.750 Because sometimes during the, actually many times during the interviews, etc., there's going to be times where you interview with so many people. 17:10.750 --> 17:34.570 Typically now for the, you know, depending on how big or how big the companies are, or also how global they are, typically for any information security position, and depending on what role you are going to be taking in the organization, typically you're going to be interviewed by at least one to three people. 17:34.570 --> 17:40.630 Or the more senior the position, seniority the position, the more people as well. 17:40.690 --> 17:59.190 For example, some of these, I've actually, I remember this many years ago, but don't quote me on this, but many years ago, probably when I was actually interviewing for like a security analyst, security engineer position, I actually interviewed for a healthcare hospital position. 17:59.510 --> 18:02.830 I interviewed for at least about five people. 18:02.830 --> 18:05.070 And it took most of the whole day, for example. 18:05.070 --> 18:06.690 So just prepare for that. 18:06.690 --> 18:22.830 And again, your note taking will come in really handy, because this will also not only help you in determining if this is the right fit or the right role, and to follow up with any questions that you have, or any questions that the interviewers have for you, 18:22.830 --> 18:25.550 where you might not know the answer, for example. 18:25.610 --> 18:32.710 It also helps into generating after every job interview, for example. 18:32.710 --> 18:34.570 Usually it depends. 18:34.570 --> 18:39.910 So there's no specific guidance on it, but send like a thank you email, for example. 18:39.910 --> 18:47.650 And the note taking will really help because then you know what you talk to each interviewer or interviewers about. 18:47.650 --> 18:53.730 And you can actually put some of this information in terms of your thank you notes, you know, blah, blah, blah. 18:53.730 --> 18:54.870 I'll give you an example. 18:55.470 --> 19:02.670 Thank you very much, Erin, Rob, Chris, Mike, Leanne, for the interview today. 19:02.670 --> 19:05.330 I really appreciated the time that you took. 19:05.330 --> 19:09.490 And then you can kind of say, you know, Leanne talked about this, blah, blah, blah. 19:09.490 --> 19:17.370 So it kind of shows you also as like a summary as well to kind of help you close the deal on the interview. 19:18.270 --> 19:29.930 Now, I also wanted to add, I added this because, well, actually, the next one was the one I added, but asking back. 19:30.270 --> 19:36.230 Don't just have, don't just basically answer questions as well. 19:36.230 --> 19:38.210 It has, it's kind of like a give and take. 19:38.210 --> 19:50.690 So because remember that the interviewers or the interview were, is trying to ascertain if you're the right individual or the right fit for the team. 19:50.690 --> 19:53.230 So don't just ask the questions. 19:53.230 --> 19:57.970 You want to kind of give and take in terms of having the interviewers ask you questions. 19:58.010 --> 20:15.870 But remember in the preparation stage, as you're creating, already created these questions based on who you're going to be interviewing with, you want to ask them questions too, because this is your best time to make sure that this is the right opportunity for you. 20:15.870 --> 20:17.170 Is it really true? 20:17.170 --> 20:23.490 Is the job description really, really, really match what is in the job description? 20:23.490 --> 20:25.710 For example, is it the right culture? 20:25.710 --> 20:27.230 Is it the right environment? 20:27.310 --> 20:28.730 Is it the right team? 20:28.750 --> 20:30.170 Is it the right people? 20:30.170 --> 20:31.310 Is it the right mission? 20:31.310 --> 20:33.170 Is this something that you really believe in? 20:33.170 --> 20:41.210 For example, and like, I'm not going to read it, but at the end, like getting to really know the real company. 20:41.810 --> 20:52.070 Obviously, I'm going to say, again, this is just my opinion, but the job description sometimes is probably most, sometimes just a copy from somewhere else as well. 20:52.090 --> 20:56.470 And sometimes the job description is not what you actually sign up for. 20:56.470 --> 21:01.630 And again, this is not a one size fits all, but it depends on the company as well. 21:02.650 --> 21:05.510 Some of these example questions, we're going to talk about that. 21:05.510 --> 21:11.390 I don't have everything here, but remember where I mentioned about asking open-ended questions? 21:11.390 --> 21:19.030 So the one thing is that some of these questions can be, you want to ask, you want to find out, is this too good to be true? 21:19.110 --> 21:24.710 Some of these open questions could be, how long was the security team been in place? 21:24.710 --> 21:29.030 For example, was there an information security manager? 21:29.270 --> 21:31.790 Why he or she? 21:31.830 --> 21:33.130 Was that the company? 21:33.130 --> 21:33.990 Did they leave? 21:33.990 --> 21:35.030 What was the reason? 21:35.030 --> 21:35.510 Et cetera. 21:35.510 --> 21:37.910 These are some additional questions that you can ask. 21:37.910 --> 21:43.050 And again, you can tell your questions on how much information, you want as well. 21:43.230 --> 21:50.490 So for example, why did some of these questions might be, why did the entire security team all leave? 21:50.490 --> 21:52.510 Is this a new security team? 21:52.510 --> 22:01.790 Is the security manager who you will be reporting to, for example, or IT manager, why did he or she leave, for example? 22:02.050 --> 22:05.470 Other questions might be, again, remember it's all open-ended. 22:05.830 --> 22:09.990 How long has people specifically been there? 22:09.990 --> 22:13.530 It doesn't only have to be about your specific team as well. 22:13.530 --> 22:22.170 Especially think about, remember that you're doing your reconnaissance, doing your homework, doing your preparation, looking great as well. 22:22.170 --> 22:39.970 But making sure, one of the things you can do is, especially your open-ended questions is asking, not only who do you report to, but also ask about your manager or your security leadership team, who they report to as well. 22:39.990 --> 22:51.290 You can ask, let's say sometimes, just to give you an example, the security manager probably reports to, let's say, a CISO, or let's say the CISO or every security manager reports to a CISO. 22:51.430 --> 22:54.570 You probably want to find out who the CISO reports to. 22:54.570 --> 22:55.770 Is it the CIO? 22:55.850 --> 22:57.450 Is it the privacy officer? 22:57.450 --> 22:58.770 Is the CEO, etc.? 22:58.770 --> 23:00.030 It really depends. 23:00.130 --> 23:01.790 It's not a one-size-fits-all. 23:01.790 --> 23:10.950 That way, you can actually tell their questions and say, Hey, you won't ask it like that, but, Hey, how come the CIO was only here for this amount of time? 23:10.950 --> 23:12.810 Has there been some transition? 23:12.810 --> 23:15.450 Has there been some kind of reorganization as well? 23:15.450 --> 23:18.430 So, remember that it's asking back. 23:18.430 --> 23:28.570 It's not only asking questions, but you also want to find, this is your best opportunity to find if this is the right opportunity for you. 23:28.870 --> 23:33.030 And it is something that resonates with you as well. 23:34.850 --> 23:43.970 Next is really, this is something that I added as well, because I was just thinking of things of, Okay, what happens if you do all this and you still don't succeed? 23:43.970 --> 23:52.790 And don't worry, because this is always, it's kind of like, I think of it as like a date, I guess. 23:52.790 --> 23:54.970 If the date doesn't go, it all depends. 23:54.970 --> 24:02.330 So , when you're doing this, even if you do all this, these are, again, these are not a one-size-fits-all. 24:02.330 --> 24:14.490 But as you're doing this, obviously, these different strategies and tactics will help you as the individual job applicants become more successful. 24:14.490 --> 24:16.950 But remember that it doesn't always work. 24:16.950 --> 24:23.390 And again, especially these different companies, please don't despair. 24:23.390 --> 24:24.690 Try again. 24:24.810 --> 24:34.170 Even things that, let's say it's a company that you're really interested in, or organization, or et cetera, or it's a great opportunity, the best, don't worry. 24:34.170 --> 24:47.370 And again, I think I won't quote it, but there's been many security professionals and engineers where their first choice isn't always the choice that it was set out to be as well. 24:47.370 --> 24:50.290 So, take this as like a grain of salt. 24:50.290 --> 24:54.690 But again, learn from what you've done, lessons learned, et cetera. 24:55.290 --> 24:58.630 You know, more interviews also gives more experience and confidence. 24:58.630 --> 25:03.430 And also remember, and again, it also depends on the organization as well. 25:03.430 --> 25:09.510 Some organizations, based on how you interview, you will get kind of like a very... 25:10.870 --> 25:14.030 could be like a vague summary sometimes. 25:14.130 --> 25:33.170 But some of the organizations, if you ask nicely as well, especially with your thank you notice as well, you can also get some feedback on what were some of the feedbacks, things that were a pro that worked really well, and things that did not work very well as well, 25:33.170 --> 25:36.010 based on the different interviewers as well. 25:36.010 --> 25:40.110 And again, at first, you don't... just like that other song, right? 25:40.110 --> 25:42.330 I think it was from Aaliyah, I believe. 25:42.330 --> 25:45.890 At first, you don't succeed, try again as well. 25:45.990 --> 25:52.770 But take this as a, you know, take this as a learning experience and know that you won't always be successful. 25:52.770 --> 26:05.770 I've known people at... when they actually applied to Google, some of these really, you know, really great organizations as well, or brand name recognition, they didn't get in. 26:05.770 --> 26:08.650 And then, of course, they didn't... they tried three times, they didn't get in. 26:08.650 --> 26:17.010 But, you know, after either through a merger position, for example, they actually ended up being at the same company, etc. 26:17.010 --> 26:22.230 So, I also want to say here is that don't burn your bridges as well. 26:22.230 --> 26:27.450 Again, obviously, treat people as you would like to be treated as well. 26:27.450 --> 26:34.470 And again, companies may not give you all the feedback that you may want to hear as well. 26:34.470 --> 26:37.610 But again, remember from those open-ended questions, etc. 26:37.610 --> 26:38.390 too. 26:38.550 --> 26:48.790 And usually, remember what I mentioned about like making a risk assessment on the interview or the company before you actually interview with the company? 26:48.790 --> 27:00.350 You can also have like make a grade and a risk assessment in terms of the grade around how your interview went with this interviewer, for example. 27:00.350 --> 27:04.230 Would you work well with him or her or the team, for example? 27:04.230 --> 27:05.810 Would you not work well as well? 27:05.810 --> 27:09.110 So, you can kind of get a good example. 27:09.110 --> 27:12.850 You know, again, it's probably only just from your own perspective. 27:12.850 --> 27:15.250 You probably want their perspective as well. 27:15.250 --> 27:23.290 But it gives you a good overview and a good remembrance of what happens during the interview as well. 27:25.170 --> 27:27.870 Now, just kind of like putting it all together. 27:28.790 --> 27:32.410 Remember that, and again, this is not a one-size-fits-all at all. 27:33.470 --> 27:39.810 Really, and again, these probably can be done in different steps as well. 27:39.810 --> 27:41.750 It's not like step one, two, or three. 27:41.750 --> 27:48.810 But I really believe that, you know, preparing, having the preparation, having the preparation is key. 27:48.810 --> 27:51.310 Kind of like doing your homework, right? 27:51.310 --> 27:57.310 Just like the Patriot says, do your job, do your job, do your job. 27:57.310 --> 27:59.790 Preparation comes with preparation. 27:59.790 --> 28:09.610 Comes all the additional confidence that you have asking the different questions that you have for them as well. 28:09.610 --> 28:15.730 And also kind of reciprocating to see if it's the right fit for you as well. 28:16.090 --> 28:18.570 Number two really talks about looking great. 28:18.570 --> 28:21.830 And just looking your best as well. 28:22.310 --> 28:26.830 Wearing some kind of business casual, even though there's some other minimum requirement. 28:26.830 --> 28:27.970 Just looking your best. 28:27.970 --> 28:31.430 Doesn't matter if it's virtual or face-to-face as well. 28:31.590 --> 28:34.590 And number three, talking about the resume review process. 28:34.590 --> 28:38.290 This is probably beforehand and then, of course, afterhand as well. 28:38.290 --> 28:44.070 Because one of the things that I actually didn't mention, and so I have the paper. 28:44.070 --> 28:47.530 With your note-taking, you have the blank paper. 28:47.530 --> 28:51.410 You also have the open-ended questions that you have for the interviewers. 28:51.410 --> 28:54.970 But also under that, you also have your resume as well. 28:54.970 --> 28:57.330 Maybe you can have additional... 28:58.030 --> 29:01.430 Most of the time, the organization will always have the resume. 29:01.430 --> 29:05.010 But this is something that you can pull out so that you can reference as well. 29:05.010 --> 29:14.970 I've also known some other candidates where, especially when they're going for different positions or a higher-up position, etc. 29:14.970 --> 29:18.690 Or a position that's just out of their league, for example. 29:18.710 --> 29:22.990 Again, remember, it's about thinking outside the box, doing something different. 29:23.070 --> 29:25.750 Most people are going to bring their resume, etc. 29:25.750 --> 29:27.070 What can you do to bring... 29:27.070 --> 29:29.130 What can you do to do something different? 29:29.470 --> 29:35.690 A lot of people now, they actually bring in different presentations, actually, tailored to what they can do. 29:35.690 --> 29:41.990 Let's say if you're applying for a chief of a security officer position, etc. 29:42.490 --> 29:47.650 What makes you stand out that other people aren't doing? 29:47.650 --> 29:51.310 For example, that could be the difference. 29:51.310 --> 29:53.950 Or let's say a security analyst position, for example. 29:53.950 --> 29:56.250 Or someone more junior, etc. 29:56.250 --> 29:57.330 It doesn't have to be that. 29:57.330 --> 29:59.210 It's just showing the initiative. 29:59.210 --> 30:00.610 Showing that you're passionate. 30:00.610 --> 30:06.590 Showing that you really want to be part of this team and environment and company and organization. 30:07.390 --> 30:10.770 Let's say you're a junior security analyst, security engineer. 30:10.890 --> 30:18.770 Maybe one of the things that you can do is actually show some of the presentations that you've done in a very high level as well. 30:18.770 --> 30:26.910 And remember, you can remove all of the company names that you worked for before, as well, for privacy purposes, etc. 30:27.170 --> 30:29.390 But again, it shows the initiative as well. 30:29.390 --> 30:31.270 That's some additional things you can do. 30:31.270 --> 30:38.150 And, of course, that confidence is just really as you do more of your homework, as you prepare for it. 30:38.150 --> 30:43.690 Again, what I like to say is that don't just wing it as well. 30:43.690 --> 30:46.870 Don't just wing it because that never works for anything, right? 30:46.870 --> 30:49.550 In terms of interviews, etc., tests, etc. 30:49.610 --> 30:58.450 But I'm going to say that by doing all of these different recommendations, you will have more confidence as well. 30:58.450 --> 31:04.890 And you can also look at additional things that you might have additional questions about. 31:04.890 --> 31:17.030 Because remember that your open-ended questions are just going to be just some pre-canned questions so that you remember that you asked the interviewers about. 31:17.030 --> 31:22.350 Maybe when you go to the interview, for example, you see something in the queue, right? 31:22.350 --> 31:30.350 Again, it's not just about pre-canning and then doing your open-ended questions. 31:30.350 --> 31:35.310 When you're also interviewing, you're going to see the physical location, etc. 31:35.310 --> 31:38.290 Physical location, physical security as well. 31:38.290 --> 31:41.250 And you can also ask open-ended questions around that too. 31:41.250 --> 31:45.890 For example, where I'd be working in this area, what floor, etc. 31:45.890 --> 31:47.850 Where does the IT work? 31:47.850 --> 31:50.870 Where do the other teams work at, etc. 31:51.510 --> 31:55.550 People will be working remotely and other things too. 31:56.270 --> 32:00.230 Next is the fifth one is about note-taking. 32:00.230 --> 32:14.010 Again, I'm not going to stress that, but just remembering what you talked about, what you're going to say, your open-ended questions, anything else that you want to follow up on from the interviewers to the interviewing for yourself. 32:14.010 --> 32:23.990 And also it serves as like a great thank you sum up note-taking based on it, mentioned and talked to the interviewers. 32:24.050 --> 32:26.050 Next one is asking back. 32:26.050 --> 32:38.010 And I won't stress that, but really just, again, give and take, not only answering questions, but what you see during the interview, what you see during the phone, what you see during talking to different people. 32:38.010 --> 32:39.990 You can ask those open-ended questions. 32:40.810 --> 32:55.310 And last but not least, obviously, with all these strategies and recommendations, everyone won't be successful or probably, you know, using these different strategies won't be successful. 32:55.310 --> 32:56.770 So keep trying. 32:56.770 --> 33:12.390 Don't, again, I think the main thing here is just really trying again and know that it's, even if it didn't work out, there's always going to be a better or more challenging opportunity as well. 33:12.390 --> 33:14.490 And things happen for a reason as well. 33:14.490 --> 33:22.890 And things may not be meant to be, for example, things like that. 33:22.910 --> 33:28.570 And other than that, just wanted to specifically get any questions. 33:28.670 --> 33:30.970 I'm on Twitter, WR0. 33:30.990 --> 33:37.130 If you have any questions specifically, you can also email me at websec or at gmail.com. 33:37.130 --> 33:42.390 And also all of these presentations will also be shared on my GitHub account as well. 33:42.390 --> 33:44.030 So thank you very much for your time today. 33:44.490 --> 33:45.430 Thank you. 33:45.430 --> 33:58.070 Roy, really great step-by-step laying out what people need to do for, excuse me, to what people need to do preparing for their interviews. 33:58.070 --> 33:58.970 It's really great. 33:58.970 --> 34:11.630 I think that everyone really needs to have that kind of checklist that you just laid out, mainly because we get very nervous and get anxious about preparing for interviews or doing the interviews. 34:11.630 --> 34:15.490 So having a really great checklist like this is very helpful. 34:15.490 --> 34:17.410 I really liked your suggestion. 34:17.410 --> 34:38.250 We tend to work a lot off of our electronic devices, but actually having the notepad when you're in the interview to take down notes, I think that causes us to slow down a little bit because many times when we're in an interview, we're nervous and having something that slows us down is really great. 34:38.250 --> 34:51.070 I also think it's really great, one of the points you brought up about being sure that you bring into the interview the resume that you submitted for the job so that you can talk from that resume. 34:51.070 --> 35:06.610 We've talked in other sessions about making sure you have resumes that are customized to those specific jobs that you're applying for, but it's also helpful to make sure that you brought the resume with you that you submitted to that job. 35:06.610 --> 35:07.770 So really great points. 35:07.770 --> 35:11.050 I know we're going to have some questions in our Discord channel. 35:11.130 --> 35:14.410 Thank you so much for being part of the Career Hacking Village. 35:15.030 --> 35:15.630 Take care, Roy. 35:15.630 --> 35:17.170 We'll see you around on Twitter. 35:17.990 --> 35:18.850 Yeah, thank you so much. 35:18.850 --> 35:21.230 And I look forward to your presentation as well, Kathleen. 35:21.590 --> 35:22.310 Thanks. 35:22.350 --> 35:22.850 Take care. 35:22.850 --> 35:23.410 Bye-bye. 35:23.410 --> 35:23.830 Take care. 35:23.830 --> 35:24.570 Have a good one. 35:24.570 --> 35:24.850 Take care. 35:24.850 --> 35:25.130 Bye.