[05:23.870 --> 05:27.010] Hi, everybody. Welcome back. [05:27.010 --> 05:32.090] And it looks like our next talk will be by Andrea Myershen. [05:32.090 --> 05:35.750] So her talk will begin just shortly. [05:35.750 --> 05:41.550] So this is a prerecorded video, but she will be doing a live Q&A a little bit afterwards. [05:41.550 --> 05:50.570] Unfortunately, due to some scheduling, it looks like her video will commence at about 12 o'clock to 1.40 PDT. [05:50.570 --> 06:00.910] And she will be joining us about 1.40 PDT Pacific Time to give us a live Q&A. [06:00.910 --> 06:06.230] For those of you who have any questions, she'll be presenting on her Vote at Home project that she's been working on. [06:06.230 --> 06:11.310] And yeah, I will, without further ado, I will start presenting that. [06:11.430 --> 06:13.130] If you all have any questions, let us know. [09:02.290 --> 09:06.880] With the recognition that 2020 has been an extraordinary year [09:07.440 --> 09:13.180] and the confluence of the pandemic with major... [09:15.320 --> 09:17.880] Welcome back to the DEF CON Ethics Village. [09:17.880 --> 09:22.020] I'm Andrea Myershen from Penn State, one of the co-organizers of the village. [09:22.020 --> 09:24.520] And this is the Vote at Home workshop. [09:24.520 --> 09:29.760] During this session, I'm going to introduce you briefly to a project that my lab, [09:29.760 --> 09:34.500] the Policy Innovation Lab of Tomorrow, or Pilot Lab, is working on. [09:34.500 --> 09:38.940] And I'm going to ask you, should you be so inclined to help us a bit [09:38.940 --> 09:47.740] by making the project even better and extending its reach through the use of your various unique skill sets. [09:47.820 --> 09:52.460] So at this point, I'll share my screen and tell you a bit about the project. [09:55.240 --> 10:00.900] The Vote at Home workshop, in this case, is, as you might expect, [10:00.900 --> 10:08.480] about expanding the ability of voters to vote at home. [10:08.540 --> 10:14.340] So this is the homepage, and should you wish to check it out at this juncture [10:14.340 --> 10:17.320] and kind of follow along as I'm talking about it, please feel free. [10:17.320 --> 10:22.980] The one warning that I will give you immediately is that for reasons that will become apparent during the talk, [10:22.980 --> 10:26.800] we haven't had time to optimize it yet for mobile. [10:26.800 --> 10:31.340] So if you are looking at it on a machine, it should render properly. [10:31.340 --> 10:39.800] If you are attempting to check it out with a mobile device, urban tragedy will ensue [10:39.800 --> 10:44.140] and everything will be unusably mangled. [10:44.140 --> 10:53.300] So at this juncture, please indulge us with your patience and check it out on a regular machine. [10:53.960 --> 11:05.340] So what this project is and how it got started was partially with the recognition that 2020 has been an extraordinary year [11:05.920 --> 11:15.140] and the confluence of the pandemic with a major election cycle, including a presidential election [11:15.140 --> 11:22.380] and elections for members of the Senate and the House, [11:22.380 --> 11:29.880] caused a blend of two sets of events that don't work well together, [11:29.880 --> 11:34.440] in particular because so many Americans vote in person. [11:34.440 --> 11:38.380] And so it's with that that the thought occurred to me, [11:38.380 --> 11:44.020] hey, why don't I just go check out and see what kind of informational sites there are currently available [11:44.020 --> 11:51.060] and to see whether there was an organization to partner with to have my lab do its part [11:51.060 --> 11:58.120] in encouraging the spread of civics education and voter education [11:58.860 --> 12:09.460] to ensure that every American has a fair shot at the information required to exercise each of our franchise rights. [12:09.460 --> 12:15.080] So I took a closer look and there are some wonderful resources out there, [12:15.080 --> 12:21.440] but what I realized is that all of these voting sites, or almost all of them, [12:21.440 --> 12:25.300] could in one way or another go one step further. [12:25.300 --> 12:31.760] So specifically, many of the sites refer voters to secretaries of state websites, [12:31.760 --> 12:38.640] which is great, but then they don't really walk through individual secretaries of state websites [12:38.640 --> 12:43.060] and some of them are not organized in a way to help people to succeed. [12:43.680 --> 12:48.660] Other sites are more of a black hole where you type in your information [12:48.660 --> 12:52.000] and they may send you an email later or something like that, [12:52.000 --> 12:59.800] but it didn't really give me a sense of confidence that a voter would end up, [12:59.800 --> 13:03.300] at the end of the day, understanding what was going on with her information [13:03.300 --> 13:12.760] and be sure that there was a chain of events that would lead to her having a ballot counted. [13:12.760 --> 13:23.780] So with those concerns layered on top of the fast pace of changing information in various states [13:23.780 --> 13:30.600] and noticing that even some highly reputable organizations had information on their websites [13:30.600 --> 13:37.620] that was already out of date and didn't reflect what I knew to be the current state of affairs [13:37.620 --> 13:37.800] The first one is, I was just wondering, as you were talking about the [13:37.800 --> 13:40.260] legislation and how it was based on legal wrangling and [13:40.260 --> 13:45.040] changes in law, I thought, okay, maybe there's a space [13:45.040 --> 13:48.780] here to build something that's a little different, that's [13:48.780 --> 13:51.780] focused specifically on helping voters [13:53.000 --> 13:57.100] walk through each step, give them the scaffolding [13:57.100 --> 13:59.360] to succeed. And [14:00.540 --> 14:03.300] also, importantly, to [14:03.300 --> 14:07.420] take a focus away from just casting a ballot [14:07.420 --> 14:11.340] but also on ensuring that the voter has the best [14:11.340 --> 14:15.220] shot of having her ballot be counted in [14:15.220 --> 14:19.760] the election tallies. So, I realized that many of these [14:19.760 --> 14:23.160] websites that are helpful and [14:23.160 --> 14:27.460] run by organizations providing a great [14:27.460 --> 14:31.840] public service, they were nevertheless a bit optimistic. [14:31.980 --> 14:35.600] So, they tend to assume that a Secretary of State website [14:35.600 --> 14:39.480] or a county website would be usable by an average voter [14:39.480 --> 14:42.880] and that the information was finalized [14:43.460 --> 14:46.920] in advance on those sites, [14:47.400 --> 14:51.260] which, unfortunately, wasn't always the case. [14:51.360 --> 14:54.840] Similarly, many of these organizations [14:56.360 --> 14:59.280] appear to presume that the websites would be [14:59.280 --> 15:03.420] arranged in usable ways and, unfortunately, that definitely wasn't the case [15:03.420 --> 15:06.840] in some Secretary of State websites [15:07.360 --> 15:11.220] or certainly not county websites. So, [15:11.220 --> 15:15.280] the implicit assumption is also that a voter has a lot [15:15.280 --> 15:18.900] of patience and time to scroll through and click through things [15:18.900 --> 15:22.820] to dig up the information that is required [15:22.820 --> 15:26.980] to get a handle on the process end-to-end from the point [15:26.980 --> 15:31.280] of registering to vote all the way through to casting, [15:31.280 --> 15:34.840] requesting an absentee or mail-in ballot, casting that [15:34.840 --> 15:38.880] ballot, and trying to give yourself [15:38.880 --> 15:42.840] the best shot of assurance that the vote [15:42.840 --> 15:46.360] was ultimately counted. And [15:46.360 --> 15:50.980] perhaps most troublingly to me, I realized that looking at some [15:50.980 --> 15:56.120] of the deadlines on Secretaries of State's sites, [15:56.120 --> 15:59.000] that based on the way [15:59.000 --> 16:03.400] that current post office delivery times were running, [16:03.400 --> 16:07.020] there was going to be a problem that emerged [16:07.020 --> 16:10.580] along the lines of delivery times [16:10.580 --> 16:14.460] not allowing for things like signature challenges [16:14.800 --> 16:19.320] to get corrected in a way that allows the voters' [16:19.320 --> 16:22.900] vote to still be counted. So, [16:22.900 --> 16:27.240] that concerned me because the confluence of the pandemic and the [16:27.240 --> 16:31.240] logistics of extra mail, etc., could [16:31.240 --> 16:35.540] result in certain voters not having a [16:35.540 --> 16:39.500] fair shot at correcting ballots with [16:39.500 --> 16:43.780] minor imperfections. So, [16:43.780 --> 16:46.620] those concerns that are unique to 2020 [16:48.100 --> 16:50.400] made me worried that perhaps [16:51.020 --> 16:55.120] many sites were a little too optimistic in the way that they were framing information [16:55.120 --> 16:59.040] for voter consumption. So, we decided [16:59.040 --> 17:03.720] to take a crack at this. And in this way, [17:03.720 --> 17:06.860] the Vote at Home project was born. It's called [17:06.860 --> 17:10.880] Project Retriever, like a dog [17:10.880 --> 17:14.660] or other animal that fetches things. In this case, we're [17:14.660 --> 17:18.640] helping to fetch ballots. And you can [17:18.640 --> 17:22.640] vote on what kind of animal should be the official retriever [17:22.640 --> 17:26.080] at the bottom of the homepage. So, the URL is listed here [17:26.510 --> 17:30.920] at the top of the page. And so, it's pilotlab.org [17:30.920 --> 17:34.660] backslash vote. That will take you to the homepage. [17:34.860 --> 17:38.140] And our goals are relatively simple. So, [17:38.590 --> 17:42.340] first, to make sure that voters are aware of all of their options [17:42.340 --> 17:46.420] to mitigate the risks of in-person voting [17:46.420 --> 17:50.180] due to the COVID-19 pandemic. [17:50.180 --> 17:54.100] In particular, I noticed that the [17:54.100 --> 17:58.460] possibility of receiving a ballot by mail, but then returning it in person [17:58.460 --> 18:02.480] is something that most states have, but it's not [18:02.480 --> 18:06.560] necessarily well known to voters. And that seems [18:06.560 --> 18:09.340] like a hybrid opportunity [18:10.560 --> 18:13.620] to mitigate some risk [18:14.440 --> 18:17.620] and yet to get a greater [18:18.420 --> 18:21.500] feeling of assurance that your vote has arrived [18:21.500 --> 18:25.360] at the point of the election commission [18:26.500 --> 18:29.400] or auditor. The [18:29.400 --> 18:34.420] various bodies are called different things in different states, as you'll see by the site. [18:34.420 --> 18:37.380] So, the second framing is around [18:37.380 --> 18:41.480] helping to give voters the best shot that their votes will [18:41.480 --> 18:45.340] be counted. So, this isn't so much about encouraging [18:45.340 --> 18:49.080] people just to submit requests or just to submit [18:49.080 --> 18:53.600] their ballots, but to give them the information, to arm them with the information [18:53.600 --> 18:56.020] to make sure that they [18:57.320 --> 19:01.460] vote in a way that maximizes the [19:01.460 --> 19:05.360] potential for their votes arriving in the correct places [19:05.360 --> 19:09.380] at the correct times and to be counted with the greatest [19:09.380 --> 19:13.440] level of certainty. Third, it was [19:13.440 --> 19:16.720] important to me [19:17.320 --> 19:21.780] that the information was presented in a nonpartisan way. [19:22.180 --> 19:25.080] And so, all of the sources that are linked on [19:25.080 --> 19:29.220] this site are official government sources. They've just been [19:29.220 --> 19:33.560] arranged in a way to help the voter understand the flow [19:33.560 --> 19:37.380] of the process in the clearest possible way. [19:37.380 --> 19:41.860] Hopefully, you'll tell us if that's not the case. So, with that, [19:41.860 --> 19:45.080] the next goal is precisely that kind of [19:45.080 --> 19:49.460] user interface. A one-stop-shop, streamlined approach [19:49.460 --> 19:53.300] that's state-specific, that is self-contained [19:53.300 --> 19:57.320] in a single image, basically a single flowchart, ideally. Though, I will [19:57.320 --> 20:01.280] point out that there were a couple states that the process is unfortunately [20:01.280 --> 20:05.760] complicated enough that two connected flowcharts [20:05.760 --> 20:09.060] were required. So, [20:09.060 --> 20:13.440] that was an interesting observation that I ran across as I [20:13.440 --> 20:18.480] was building these flowcharts. So, the goal here is also to have high accuracy, [20:18.480 --> 20:21.360] trustworthy, current information. And so, this [20:21.360 --> 20:25.420] project will be updated on a regular basis with the assistance [20:25.420 --> 20:28.820] of a postdoc [20:28.820 --> 20:32.980] and a research assistant or two and [20:32.980 --> 20:36.640] the kind people of the internet, I hope. [20:36.780 --> 20:41.460] And so, ideally, we'll end up with an easy-to-follow [20:41.460 --> 20:45.120] set of explainers for voters [20:45.120 --> 20:49.440] to help them be set up for success and to give them the confidence [20:49.440 --> 20:53.580] that their process of voting [20:53.580 --> 20:57.500] had sort of maximum legitimacy and that their [20:57.500 --> 21:00.840] votes were likely counted [21:01.940 --> 21:05.380] correctly in the way that the intent of the voter [21:06.060 --> 21:09.660] would dictate. So, this all seemed [21:09.660 --> 21:13.640] doable and we started building. So, my postdoc, [21:13.640 --> 21:17.100] Michael Antonino, who is giving a talk tomorrow morning [21:18.020 --> 21:21.800] or I guess early afternoon, depending on which time zone you're in. [21:22.020 --> 21:25.180] Tomorrow, Sunday, in the Ethics Village, Michael Antonino will be talking [21:25.180 --> 21:29.340] about blackmail and extortion, so something completely different. [21:29.340 --> 21:33.320] But he's been very helpful on this project as well. So, [21:33.320 --> 21:37.020] Mike did an initial cut on aggregating some of the state-specific [21:37.020 --> 21:41.240] information for a set of criteria that I thought [21:41.240 --> 21:44.380] would be good to include in these flowcharts. And [21:45.070 --> 21:49.160] then he also started making video content because we figured helping with [21:49.160 --> 21:53.320] engagement once these 50-plus flowcharts [21:53.320 --> 21:57.540] were made that that was going to be a major challenge. So, [21:57.540 --> 22:01.320] I started making flowcharts and I thought [22:01.320 --> 22:05.640] this would be a relatively straightforward process, just a bit time-consuming. [22:05.640 --> 22:09.420] It was not a relatively straightforward process. So, this project [22:09.420 --> 22:13.400] has been going on for over two months and it's still not [22:13.400 --> 22:17.280] finished. In fact, some states [22:17.280 --> 22:21.500] haven't finalized their voting processes and we're less than 90 days [22:21.500 --> 22:25.820] to the election. So, it's gotten to the point where [22:25.820 --> 22:29.300] we are emailing and calling individual county offices [22:29.300 --> 22:33.280] in certain states to try to figure out what the voting process is [22:33.280 --> 22:37.560] for the citizens of their jurisdictions. And as [22:37.560 --> 22:41.340] I mentioned previously, it's definitely not mobile [22:41.340 --> 22:45.320] optimized yet. But what was somewhat [22:45.320 --> 22:49.620] startling to us is that there are counties that don't even have websites [22:49.620 --> 22:52.800] and that the Secretary of State of [22:53.740 --> 22:57.040] one state in particular has [22:57.620 --> 23:01.460] merely a direction, when we last checked, to go to the individual counties [23:01.460 --> 23:04.840] and ask them. So, there have been challenges [23:05.960 --> 23:09.620] getting some of this information, though allegedly that particular [23:09.620 --> 23:12.840] Secretary of State is going to have some guidance released soon. [23:13.620 --> 23:17.440] So, with that, here are a few observations [23:17.440 --> 23:21.720] of things that I noticed as I was making these flow charts [23:22.320 --> 23:25.280] about the way that some of these election structures [23:25.280 --> 23:29.480] have been set up. So, there were a few [23:29.480 --> 23:33.640] Secretary of State websites that left me [23:33.640 --> 23:37.560] with an impression that maximum voter registration [23:37.560 --> 23:41.340] was not necessarily the goal. I was surprised that [23:41.340 --> 23:45.380] in at least one case, when you type in the words voter registration [23:45.380 --> 23:49.400] into the search bar on the Secretary of State website, there [23:49.400 --> 23:52.160] was no usable information that came up. [23:53.240 --> 23:56.940] Even in the formal FAQ for voters in that particular [23:57.780 --> 24:01.260] Secretary of State website, the process of [24:01.260 --> 24:05.140] registration was dismissed. Now, ultimately [24:06.320 --> 24:08.880] as you'll see if you [24:08.880 --> 24:13.500] figure out which state I'm talking about here, there is [24:13.760 --> 24:17.600] a national postcard format for [24:17.600 --> 24:21.740] voter registration. So, that particular flow chart links [24:21.740 --> 24:25.520] to that national document that is put out by the Election [24:25.520 --> 24:29.860] Assistance Commission. But, the process [24:31.040 --> 24:33.620] was not transparent from [24:33.620 --> 24:35.940] the way that the website [24:38.660 --> 24:41.660] was set up. They didn't even really [24:41.660 --> 24:45.760] describe it. So, I can't say the way they described it. Other states [24:45.760 --> 24:49.680] have set up signature challenge processes that [24:49.680 --> 24:53.840] in my mind are signaling that they intend to use signature challenges [24:53.840 --> 24:57.360] somewhat aggressively. And [24:57.360 --> 25:01.740] so, the kinds of secondary [25:01.740 --> 25:05.640] issues that flow from that signature [25:05.640 --> 25:09.640] challenge posture and set of processes is that in [25:09.640 --> 25:14.000] situations where you have postal delays, [25:14.000 --> 25:17.140] as I mentioned, you may not be able to have the round trip [25:17.640 --> 25:21.180] of a voter mailing in a ballot, [25:21.180 --> 25:25.740] having a signature challenge occur, or sending in a request [25:25.740 --> 25:29.700] for an absentee ballot and having that request deemed [25:29.700 --> 25:32.940] to have a non-conforming signature and then get [25:33.640 --> 25:37.640] tossed out to leave the [25:37.640 --> 25:41.880] voter without necessarily enough time to try again and correct [25:41.880 --> 25:45.580] whatever imperfections existed. In some states [25:45.580 --> 25:49.560] in particular, they've signaled that if your signature [25:49.560 --> 25:53.560] doesn't look identical enough to [25:53.560 --> 25:57.700] the way that you signed your driver's license or the way that you signed [25:57.700 --> 26:01.600] your voter registration card, for example, if one has a middle [26:01.600 --> 26:05.560] initial and the other signature doesn't, or if you signed with only [26:05.560 --> 26:09.560] an initial and your last name on one but you signed with your full name on [26:09.560 --> 26:12.460] another, those kinds of [26:14.340 --> 26:17.640] minor mismatches are enough to disqualify [26:17.940 --> 26:21.380] a particular request for an application or a particular ballot [26:21.380 --> 26:25.200] if that signature on the outside of the envelope is [26:25.200 --> 26:29.700] non-conforming to the baseline of whatever the document is [26:29.700 --> 26:33.620] that they're using. And sometimes the baseline of which [26:33.620 --> 26:37.560] document it is and which signature it is is not always [26:37.560 --> 26:41.600] crystal clear. In some states, they encourage [26:41.600 --> 26:45.520] you to update your signature so that you [26:45.520 --> 26:48.100] are sure that there will be a match. [26:51.320 --> 26:53.640] But this is something [26:53.640 --> 26:57.280] that many voters would not necessarily anticipate [26:57.280 --> 27:01.580] to be a dynamic that would impact their voting process. There are [27:01.580 --> 27:05.480] some states that have relatively late ballot mailing dates in the middle of [27:05.480 --> 27:09.580] October. While under normal circumstances, that [27:09.580 --> 27:13.580] may not be an unduly [27:14.660 --> 27:17.340] short time frame for a round trip [27:17.340 --> 27:21.340] of requesting a ballot, getting a ballot, and sending it in [27:21.340 --> 27:25.100] even with perhaps a challenge on the back end of that. [27:25.100 --> 27:29.680] In a situation where we have a significantly [27:29.680 --> 27:33.240] greater number of people requesting ballots [27:33.240 --> 27:37.540] by mail and where you have [27:37.540 --> 27:41.200] postal delays, as we've already been seeing, [27:41.200 --> 27:45.620] that is adding to the stress on the system and again [27:45.620 --> 27:49.600] making it more likely that a voter may face challenges. The [27:49.600 --> 27:53.900] latest guidance from the U.S. Post Office [27:53.900 --> 27:57.800] is to plan 15 days for [27:57.800 --> 28:01.260] transit of a ballot. Most voters [28:01.800 --> 28:06.500] are unlikely to expect a [28:06.500 --> 28:10.600] need for a 15-day planning [28:10.600 --> 28:14.700] window, a buffer for their vote [28:14.700 --> 28:18.350] to make it back to [28:18.600 --> 28:22.860] their election officials for purposes of counting. [28:22.860 --> 28:25.840] And then finally, there are states that [28:25.840 --> 28:29.620] have some unique quirks. For example, one state [28:29.620 --> 28:34.000] requires that the voter type out the exact [28:34.000 --> 28:37.480] date of the election that the voter is [28:37.480 --> 28:42.380] seeking to participate in. While in most other states, there's sort of a [28:42.380 --> 28:46.500] checkbox, general election, primary, and maybe they even [28:46.500 --> 28:50.520] provide the date next to the checkbox that [28:50.520 --> 28:53.240] you might be choosing. But in this particular state, [28:53.240 --> 28:57.180] they are very clear that if you get [28:57.180 --> 29:01.200] the date of the election wrong at all, when you type it [29:01.200 --> 29:05.340] out or write it out by hand, your request [29:05.340 --> 29:08.020] for a ballot will be excluded. [29:10.060 --> 29:13.500] There are also states that require a copy of a [29:13.500 --> 29:17.700] photo ID for receiving a mail-in ballot, even if you're already [29:17.700 --> 29:21.080] registered to vote. Other states require notarization [29:21.080 --> 29:25.020] of your ballot request or your actual ballot. [29:25.440 --> 29:29.260] And some states similarly request witnesses. In some [29:29.260 --> 29:33.180] states, those witnesses must be voters. In other states, they only [29:33.180 --> 29:37.560] need to be adults over age 18. Some states [29:37.560 --> 29:41.940] pay postage on the return envelopes for ballots, [29:41.940 --> 29:45.140] but other states do not. And some of those [29:45.140 --> 29:49.360] states that don't have a disclaimer and a warning that [29:49.360 --> 29:53.400] voters need to apply enough postage, but they [29:53.400 --> 29:57.160] don't necessarily tell voters what amount [29:57.160 --> 30:01.080] is the necessary postage that should be affixed [30:01.080 --> 30:05.300] to a particular ballot. So the actual stamp count [30:05.300 --> 30:08.960] is not necessarily clear. So that's something else that voters might be [30:08.960 --> 30:13.400] unprepared for or find challenging to ascertain. [30:13.700 --> 30:17.140] And then in one case, [30:17.140 --> 30:20.760] there was a situation where [30:21.320 --> 30:25.100] a state had a county that was subject to the requirements under [30:25.100 --> 30:29.100] the Help America Vote Act to translate materials into Spanish because [30:29.100 --> 30:33.080] of the number of Spanish [30:33.080 --> 30:36.460] speaking residents. And [30:37.140 --> 30:41.220] the county had one line of Spanish on [30:41.220 --> 30:45.380] the website, which just basically referred [30:45.380 --> 30:49.560] Spanish speakers to the English version of the site. So we contacted [30:49.560 --> 30:53.780] them and we asked where the Spanish language materials were. [30:53.780 --> 30:57.540] We didn't get an explanation, but what was interesting is that [30:57.540 --> 31:00.980] poking around on the website, [31:00.980 --> 31:05.500] we were able to uncover an archived copy [31:05.500 --> 31:09.540] of an earlier set of translated documents that were no [31:09.540 --> 31:13.460] longer linked up. And they were from a prior year, so [31:13.460 --> 31:17.440] perhaps they were out of date. But nevertheless, [31:17.440 --> 31:21.300] there was sometimes the risk of a language [31:21.300 --> 31:25.420] barrier that might prevent some citizens from [31:26.320 --> 31:29.920] fully participating in the electoral process. [31:30.520 --> 31:33.600] So these were some of the concerns that we had in mind. [31:33.600 --> 31:37.500] Okay, so as of today, here's what's done. We have [31:37.500 --> 31:41.540] flowcharts for almost every state finished. The basic structure of every page [31:41.540 --> 31:45.580] is finished. There are non-copyright [31:45.580 --> 31:49.700] infringing photos that are different for every state. And I'd just like to put [31:49.700 --> 31:53.620] in a plug for any of you looking for a novel market opportunity. [31:53.640 --> 31:57.600] The world needs more attractive mailboxes. There was a shortage of attractive [31:57.600 --> 32:01.500] mailbox pictures in the public domain. I went through [32:01.700 --> 32:05.780] a lot of pictures of mailboxes. And there are a lot of really unattractive [32:05.780 --> 32:08.560] mailboxes in this world. So [32:09.160 --> 32:12.200] believe it or not, this actually became sort of [32:12.900 --> 32:16.700] a bit of a problem because we wanted to get [32:17.440 --> 32:19.000] a unique mailbox for each state [32:19.000 --> 32:23.360] as a sign of respect, if nothing else. And so it became [32:24.820 --> 32:28.540] a bit of a challenge finding those last few mailboxes. And you'll [32:28.540 --> 32:32.420] see on a later slide that this is one of the items that [32:32.420 --> 32:36.660] we flag as possible optimization. So what's [32:36.660 --> 32:40.720] not done? The mobile optimization, not done, but it's in progress. There's a learn here [32:40.720 --> 32:45.100] more button on the front of the site on the homepage. [32:45.200 --> 32:48.420] That's also in progress and that's just going to be a discussion [32:48.420 --> 32:52.080] about the differences of [32:53.880 --> 32:56.260] kind of the risk mitigation of [32:57.040 --> 33:00.120] different ways of voting and the [33:01.240 --> 33:04.760] options in general of the three possible methods. [33:04.760 --> 33:08.780] So request a ballot at home, receive it at home, [33:08.780 --> 33:12.640] request a ballot at home, drop it off in person [33:12.640 --> 33:16.900] or voting in person. Proofreading, [33:16.900 --> 33:21.260] not done. Translations, not done. [33:21.420 --> 33:24.740] There's a new section for each state that we're building [33:24.740 --> 33:28.840] out and so that's in progress. There is a very elaborate spreadsheet [33:28.840 --> 33:32.940] that's fast on its way to being [33:32.940 --> 33:37.120] updated and also that will stay current. Getting the word [33:37.120 --> 33:41.060] out and getting some viral spread to help people [33:41.060 --> 33:45.060] realize that there is a potentially useful [33:45.060 --> 33:49.480] resource, that is obviously not done because the site's not done yet. [33:49.480 --> 33:52.940] And the state of Mississippi, not yet finished partially because [33:52.940 --> 33:56.080] they're still finalizing their processes. [33:56.880 --> 34:01.120] So your help would be very much appreciated [34:01.120 --> 34:04.940] with proofing states. [34:05.240 --> 34:08.940] Some of the states even that are done, they need [34:08.940 --> 34:13.240] to do a... they need a refresher [34:13.240 --> 34:16.940] because of the slipping delays [34:16.940 --> 34:21.420] with the post office. So some of the earliest states [34:21.420 --> 34:24.680] on the flowcharts, they may have had [34:24.680 --> 34:29.240] buffer dates that were not a full 15 days out [34:29.240 --> 34:32.940] because at that point in time the guidance was 7 days out. [34:32.940 --> 34:36.700] So some of the dates may need to be refreshed. [34:37.300 --> 34:40.560] A bunch of them I caught, but some of them I may have missed. [34:41.840 --> 34:44.920] And so the translations would be something [34:44.920 --> 34:48.760] that would be a section [34:50.080 --> 34:53.480] that for those of you who are gifted in various languages [34:54.300 --> 34:57.400] help would be much appreciated. And in particular [34:57.400 --> 35:01.360] getting the word out about the existence of this resource to [35:02.200 --> 35:05.180] voters who might find it helpful would be [35:05.180 --> 35:09.700] very much appreciated. So first proofing, so if you go to [35:09.700 --> 35:13.380] pilotlab.org backslash vote on a machine again [35:13.380 --> 35:17.540] because, you know, see lack of mobile optimization supra, but that will happen [35:17.540 --> 35:21.520] I promise. You can start proofing [35:21.520 --> 35:25.660] by picking a state, any state, and you should see a pop-up [35:25.660 --> 35:29.680] come up. The pop-up will either say high volume state [35:29.680 --> 35:33.260] or high volume election depending on whether [35:33.260 --> 35:37.600] there is a likelihood that a particular state [35:37.600 --> 35:41.940] will have a potentially [35:43.860 --> 35:44.840] contentious [35:45.650 --> 35:49.040] race with an unusually high volume [35:49.660 --> 35:53.840] of ballots by mail comparatively. [35:55.480 --> 35:57.840] So when you see the pop-up [35:57.840 --> 36:01.940] come up, well first does the pop-up come up, check [36:01.940 --> 36:05.340] it out, see if there is a typographical error or anything [36:06.340 --> 36:10.260] looking off, and then click through it to the flowchart. [36:10.260 --> 36:13.860] So each state has a unique flowchart and unique [36:13.860 --> 36:18.320] photos and unique content. So please look for bugs, [36:18.320 --> 36:21.840] look at the flowchart, attempt to follow the steps on the flowchart. Are the links [36:21.840 --> 36:25.420] correct? Are the flowcharts intuitive? [36:26.360 --> 36:28.540] Is the mailbox picture [36:29.660 --> 36:33.840] acceptable or is there a mailbox picture that you take a look [36:33.840 --> 36:38.020] at and you think, wow, that's insulting. [36:38.020 --> 36:41.780] That's an insulting looking mailbox. Not our intent [36:41.780 --> 36:45.280] at all, but there were two states where I already got feedback [36:45.680 --> 36:49.680] that the particular mailbox that was selected looked a little sad. [36:51.320 --> 36:54.520] Understood, swapped out image. [36:54.800 --> 36:57.720] So hopefully those mailboxes look nicer now. [36:58.660 --> 37:01.920] So is there a mailbox that looks particularly ugly or weird? [37:01.920 --> 37:06.100] Or is the other photo, which is intended to be [37:06.100 --> 37:08.160] state specific, [37:10.220 --> 37:12.300] a good choice for highlighting [37:14.060 --> 37:17.820] the particular state? [37:18.640 --> 37:22.140] Each state has lovely parts to it, and so [37:22.140 --> 37:26.040] each state deserves to have its natural [37:26.040 --> 37:30.540] beauty highlighted. Are there other user interface issues? [37:30.540 --> 37:34.020] Is there something that looks a little off? Is there [37:34.020 --> 37:37.980] an arrow that somehow moved over somewhere where it [37:37.980 --> 37:42.700] shouldn't be? Are there layout problems? Other things? [37:43.340 --> 37:45.980] Make note of all of this. All of these kinds of comments [37:45.980 --> 37:50.260] are much appreciated. And at the bottom [37:50.260 --> 37:53.980] of each page, there is a [37:55.340 --> 37:58.780] as you can see from the image on the slide, there is a link [37:58.780 --> 38:02.100] that takes you to a feedback form [38:03.180 --> 38:07.160] where you can type in the state, choose from [38:07.160 --> 38:12.960] a drop down set of issues, one of which is other, and tell us [38:12.960 --> 38:14.100] what optimization or correction [38:14.100 --> 38:16.540] you would recommend. [38:17.780 --> 38:22.020] Also, make note if you see that there might be some process [38:22.020 --> 38:25.940] problems of the kinds that I was mentioning, where [38:26.760 --> 38:29.900] a voter might not expect to have [38:31.680 --> 38:32.360] a challenge [38:33.900 --> 38:38.100] in the way of her vote being [38:38.100 --> 38:41.620] counted. So, is there some kind of process [38:41.620 --> 38:45.740] vulnerability that we missed? Walk through [38:45.740 --> 38:49.760] the flow chart, for example. Here is one example in the state of [38:49.760 --> 38:53.700] Kansas. The timing of the mailing out of [38:53.700 --> 38:57.920] the absentee ballots does not appear to leave enough time [38:57.920 --> 39:01.660] for that round trip of the ballot in case [39:01.660 --> 39:05.380] of a signature challenge. So, think about the registration [39:05.380 --> 39:09.740] process, the process of requesting a ballot, the process of returning the ballot, [39:09.740 --> 39:13.720] and the possibility of a challenge post-return [39:13.720 --> 39:17.660] where the voter will be asked to demonstrate [39:18.380 --> 39:22.160] the entitlement to cast the ballot or to [39:24.140 --> 39:25.760] correct the ballot in some other [39:25.760 --> 39:29.360] way because of the way that the voter filled it out. [39:29.520 --> 39:34.580] Same thing, let us know. Use the feedback link on the bottom of each page, please. [39:34.720 --> 39:37.680] Second, translations. Perhaps you are lucky [39:37.680 --> 39:41.460] enough to speak one or more languages other than [39:41.460 --> 39:45.860] English. Or perhaps you have a particularly gifted multilingual [39:45.860 --> 39:50.620] friend. As my friends often find out, [39:50.620 --> 39:53.620] requests to help me with my projects [39:53.620 --> 39:57.840] are a regular occurrence. So, maybe you have a really [39:57.840 --> 40:01.940] generous friend that will also want to help us out [40:01.940 --> 40:06.480] with this project that just kept getting bigger. [40:06.480 --> 40:10.160] So, please help us out. If you click on [40:10.160 --> 40:15.380] the translate drop-down. [40:16.780 --> 40:18.480] So, on the home page [40:18.480 --> 40:22.500] there is a language drop-down. The translate is at the bottom of the various [40:22.500 --> 40:26.860] language choices. So, if you pick a state, you [40:26.860 --> 40:30.580] take a look at the flow chart [40:31.800 --> 40:34.700] and if you translate step-by-step [40:34.700 --> 40:39.460] the steps are actually numbered. And so is the form, as I will show you here. [40:39.560 --> 40:42.800] Go down to the translate drop-down. That opens an interface [40:42.800 --> 40:46.840] for translation. And there are numbers for [40:46.840 --> 40:50.780] steps. And each state then has numbered steps as well [40:50.780 --> 40:54.120] in the flow chart. So, for example, step 1 [40:54.920 --> 40:58.740] could correspond to step 1 there. All languages are [40:58.740 --> 41:02.760] welcome. The list of languages in the drop-down is not [41:02.760 --> 41:06.560] intended to be exclusive. It's purely the happenstance [41:06.560 --> 41:10.740] of the various languages that we have ready access [41:10.740 --> 41:15.140] to. And even so, [41:15.140 --> 41:18.800] the volunteers who speak those languages [41:20.000 --> 41:22.800] are sometimes time-limited [41:22.800 --> 41:26.740] and so they can only contribute in one state or two states. So, just [41:26.740 --> 41:30.680] because a language is represented does not mean that we have full coverage on it. [41:30.680 --> 41:35.200] So, if you happen to be fluent in that language, please go for it. [41:35.200 --> 41:37.780] Please take as many states as [41:38.560 --> 41:41.400] you can stomach translating and [41:44.120 --> 41:46.860] contribute your multilingual skills [41:46.860 --> 41:50.420] to this project. It would be much appreciated. And so, [41:50.420 --> 41:54.620] third and finally, the process of [41:54.620 --> 41:58.480] helping us get the word out and keeping things current and updated. [41:58.480 --> 42:02.500] So, the site is going to be final by August 17th. So, at that [42:02.500 --> 42:06.500] point, we're going to start pushing [42:06.500 --> 42:10.300] it out through various media, hoping to [42:10.960 --> 42:14.420] get it into the view [42:14.420 --> 42:18.540] of voters who might be assisted by it. So, if you would be kind [42:18.540 --> 42:22.560] enough to help us spread the word through your social media accounts or [42:25.120 --> 42:26.520] otherwise lists, [42:26.520 --> 42:29.960] email lists still exist. I'm on a lot of email lists. [42:30.400 --> 42:34.280] Or whatever other means that you wish. There is [42:34.280 --> 42:38.560] another form on the site. It's at pilotlab.org backslash [42:38.560 --> 42:42.380] tellme. And so, if you'd be kind enough to fill in [42:42.380 --> 42:46.740] some kind of desired greeting, whatever that may be. [42:46.740 --> 42:51.140] It doesn't have to be your name. We don't really need that necessarily. [42:51.440 --> 42:54.620] It's just a contact method. And this is purely [42:54.620 --> 42:58.920] for the purposes of this project to let you know that the project is finished so that [43:00.380 --> 43:02.700] you can, if you're kind enough [43:02.700 --> 43:05.500] to assist us in rolling it out. [43:06.780 --> 43:11.120] We will be destroying this information after this project. [43:11.120 --> 43:12.800] So, one shot thing. [43:14.300 --> 43:18.580] Pilot Lab doesn't keep lists. I can tell you that with certainty because [43:18.580 --> 43:22.000] I manage the social media accounts and I don't have time to keep lists. [43:22.600 --> 43:26.080] So, this will be a one shot deal [43:26.080 --> 43:30.440] if you're kind enough to contribute some contact information to this and help us with this rollout. [43:31.080 --> 43:33.640] So, on the 17th when the site is [43:33.640 --> 43:37.400] done, we'll send you a little [43:38.100 --> 43:42.280] notification that the site is done. Or if you [43:42.280 --> 43:44.260] would prefer to [43:45.680 --> 43:50.000] just throw it on your calendar for the 17th [43:50.760 --> 43:54.560] that would be great too. Right around there. [43:54.560 --> 43:58.420] Maybe a little bit earlier. I hope. It might be earlier. [43:58.420 --> 44:02.460] I'm hoping. So, after that [44:02.460 --> 44:06.180] once it's been sort of officially launched, there's [44:06.180 --> 44:10.140] always the challenge of ongoing currency. So, as I [44:10.140 --> 44:13.720] mentioned, we are monitoring news stories in [44:13.720 --> 44:18.320] every state around developments in [44:18.320 --> 44:22.220] voting at home. And it is [44:22.220 --> 44:26.200] nevertheless useful if you happen to run across a story that's relevant [44:26.200 --> 44:30.120] to a particular state to make sure that we've seen it. [44:30.280 --> 44:34.400] If it's not already listed in the news section on that [44:34.400 --> 44:37.160] site, if you'd be kind enough to [44:37.980 --> 44:42.020] tweet it at us, that would be really helpful. There are two Twitter [44:42.020 --> 44:46.280] accounts that Pilot Lab runs. One of which is linked [44:46.280 --> 44:49.160] off of the homepage at the bottom under [44:49.940 --> 44:54.240] contact. But also, this is a Pilot Lab project [44:54.240 --> 44:57.340] the Penn State Cows, which is [44:58.260 --> 45:01.540] an ag tech IOT rural broadband [45:02.460 --> 45:06.160] project. But if you like cows or sheep [45:06.160 --> 45:10.380] or goats or llamas or alpacas [45:10.380 --> 45:14.160] because they're different. They're completely different. [45:15.800 --> 45:19.180] This feed might be to your liking. [45:19.840 --> 45:22.220] So, the almost [45:22.220 --> 45:25.980] 900 now followers are [45:26.800 --> 45:30.480] almost entirely farmers from all over the world. And [45:31.300 --> 45:34.540] InfoSec Twitter has nothing on Ag Twitter. [45:34.540 --> 45:38.220] That is all I will say. I've learned a lot in the last year running this [45:38.220 --> 45:41.960] account. And I look forward to getting into conversations [45:41.960 --> 45:46.040] with any of you about the different methods of bathing sheep or hoof [45:46.040 --> 45:50.340] trimming, which is a theoretical matter I now know a lot about. [45:50.660 --> 45:53.960] Maybe someday I'll actually learn how to do that [45:53.960 --> 45:58.180] in practice. But I don't have those skills, but I can [45:59.020 --> 46:02.120] ask some questions about those topics now. [46:02.120 --> 46:06.060] Anyway, I'll stop. So, tweet at the Penn [46:06.060 --> 46:09.900] State Cows. Another great way to get our attention with news stories. [46:09.900 --> 46:13.140] Drop us an email to pilotlab.psu.edu [46:14.080 --> 46:17.780] or feel free to use the feedback form on the bottom of the relevant [46:17.780 --> 46:22.680] state that's the subject of the news story. Whatever means is convenient. [46:22.900 --> 46:25.900] We just appreciate your contributions [46:27.200 --> 46:29.640] because keeping this current is [46:31.300 --> 46:33.400] going to be a challenge, of course, but [46:33.400 --> 46:38.000] we will do our best. So, you'll be familiar with [46:38.000 --> 46:41.600] the feedback form at the bottom of these pages, I'm sure. [46:41.600 --> 46:45.540] And then finally, and this is my last slide, [46:45.540 --> 46:49.300] third-party attacks may have already started on various [46:50.000 --> 46:53.900] states' voting at home structures, [46:53.900 --> 46:57.200] which isn't a good sign. Fairfax County [46:58.000 --> 47:01.500] pushed out on Facebook a warning to its followers [47:01.500 --> 47:05.300] that some mailings have already started showing up [47:05.300 --> 47:09.500] in mailboxes of voters that [47:09.500 --> 47:13.340] create the impression that they are from Fairfax County. [47:13.340 --> 47:16.600] They are not actually from Fairfax County. [47:16.800 --> 47:21.380] Because of this warning, I realized we [47:21.380 --> 47:24.840] needed a potential scam alert page. [47:24.840 --> 47:29.160] When some activity that is verified [47:29.160 --> 47:33.000] and raises concern of [47:33.000 --> 47:37.200] potential voter confusion comes up, [47:37.200 --> 47:41.100] it will be added to this potential scam alert page, and [47:41.100 --> 47:45.160] as you can see on the Virginia example that's on the [47:45.160 --> 47:48.980] slide, there will be a notice advising [47:48.980 --> 47:53.380] voters to check out what's going on with the particular [47:53.380 --> 47:57.420] questionable conduct. So, if you run across [47:57.420 --> 48:02.980] some mailings, posts, [48:02.980 --> 48:06.260] that appear to be trying to confuse voters [48:07.340 --> 48:11.000] and are from a source that is misrepresenting [48:11.000 --> 48:14.840] itself as an official government source, for example, such as this case [48:14.840 --> 48:19.140] that Fairfax County's impression [48:19.140 --> 48:22.280] of the particular mailing at issue, [48:22.660 --> 48:27.000] please let us know through either the feedback form on the bottom [48:27.000 --> 48:31.000] of the page for the relevant state, or [48:31.000 --> 48:35.160] if you go to the URL that's listed here, pilotlab.org [48:35.160 --> 48:39.040] backslash votescams, you can also submit [48:39.040 --> 48:42.520] that information through another interface on that page. [48:42.600 --> 48:46.280] Or, feel free to tweet it at us, drop us an email, [48:46.890 --> 48:51.140] all methods are welcome and much [48:51.140 --> 48:55.300] appreciated. So, I will leave the slides [48:55.300 --> 48:59.060] there. The URL [48:59.060 --> 49:04.620] is, again, pilotlab.org [49:04.620 --> 49:06.860] backslash vote. [49:07.240 --> 49:10.380] I'll just put it back to the front here. [49:10.680 --> 49:15.680] I will be around for Q&A after this. [49:15.680 --> 49:19.140] If any of you have specific questions about the project [49:19.140 --> 49:23.960] or about particular states, [49:25.440 --> 49:27.800] I'd be happy to engage with you. [49:27.800 --> 49:32.060] Any contributions of your time that you can [49:32.060 --> 49:35.680] give in connection with this workshop would be greatly appreciated [49:35.680 --> 49:39.980] because 50 plus is a lot of states. [49:40.280 --> 49:42.280] We're a very large country. [49:44.400 --> 49:48.040] So, thank you for your attention and thank you in advance for [49:48.040 --> 49:51.920] your contributions of time to this project. [50:04.700 --> 50:08.080] Hi everybody. So, thank you again for attending [50:08.080 --> 50:11.920] that pre-recorded talk. So, just as a heads up, Andrea is actually [50:11.920 --> 50:15.860] in the chat right now for general text. [50:16.000 --> 50:20.100] She will be available and taking live questions starting [50:20.100 --> 50:24.480] at 1.40 p.m. Pacific time. So, please stay in the chat. [50:24.480 --> 50:28.060] I know it's 12.40 right now, so about an hour, give or take. [50:28.060 --> 50:32.260] She'll be around, if not now, to start fielding some questions. [50:32.900 --> 50:35.780] Also, as we go forward, after [50:35.780 --> 50:39.420] about, let's say, 2.10 p.m. PDT [50:39.420 --> 50:42.860] Pacific time, we're going to have the Federal Trade Commission [50:44.040 --> 50:48.280] Commissioner Rohit Chopra follow the same format. He's going to have [50:49.100 --> 50:51.600] a pre-recorded talk, but we'll be taking live [50:51.600 --> 50:55.420] questions again after his pre-recorded talk. Following [50:55.420 --> 50:59.980] his presentation, we'll have Jessica Wilkerson of the Food and Drug Administration [50:59.980 --> 51:03.700] as well. She also has a pre-recorded talk, but we'll be fielding [51:03.700 --> 51:07.760] live questions after that. And to end the day today, also, [51:07.760 --> 51:11.660] we will have Liza Logan of Tech Congress. So, Liza will [51:11.660 --> 51:15.780] be fielding questions after the pre-recorded talk. [51:15.940 --> 51:19.720] And, yeah, stick around, I guess, for a little bit longer. Please talk amongst yourselves [51:20.660 --> 51:23.760] until we continue. And thank you again for coming to [51:23.760 --> 51:26.980] DEF CON slash Ethics Village 2020. [51:27.080 --> 51:29.660] If you have any questions, let us know. [01:04:46.560 --> 01:04:50.540] Hi, folks. For those of you that are in the EV Talks voice, once again, [01:04:50.540 --> 01:04:54.620] we will be having a live discussion from the last video, [01:04:55.160 --> 01:04:57.860] a pre-recorded talk by Andrea, or known as [01:04:57.860 --> 01:05:02.620] Adgracy, in the chat. If you missed anything, I have just pasted [01:05:02.620 --> 01:05:06.280] the YouTube link where you can watch portions or the whole video [01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:10.260] again. It will be starting at 1.40 p.m. Pacific [01:05:10.260 --> 01:05:14.680] time. If you have any questions in the meantime, please feel free to queue them up [01:05:14.680 --> 01:05:18.520] inside the chat, and she will get to them accordingly. [01:05:18.520 --> 01:05:21.440] So, yeah, I'll see you all soon. [01:46:09.080 --> 01:46:13.820] Alright, folks. We're about to get started here in a few. [01:46:13.980 --> 01:46:17.640] I think we have... Andrea, can you hear us [01:46:17.640 --> 01:46:21.120] in the chat? Or can you hear me? [01:46:21.720 --> 01:46:25.860] I can hear if you can hear me. Awesome, awesome. [01:46:25.860 --> 01:46:29.380] So, everybody, if you have any questions regarding [01:46:29.380 --> 01:46:33.220] the presentation that just occurred with the [01:46:33.220 --> 01:46:37.600] Vote at Home workshop, please post them in the chat now. Anything... [01:46:37.600 --> 01:46:41.180] folks have been slowly asking some questions, I believe. [01:46:41.980 --> 01:46:45.420] I saw there was some mailbox shaming discussion [01:46:45.420 --> 01:46:49.320] that amused me. We can [01:46:49.320 --> 01:46:52.700] talk a little bit about some of the maybe cool [01:46:53.380 --> 01:46:57.280] mailboxes you've all seen, or if it is ethical to have a crappy mailbox [01:46:57.280 --> 01:47:01.400] to annoy your housing, your HOA folks, [01:47:01.400 --> 01:47:05.220] or what have you. But please post your questions [01:47:05.220 --> 01:47:09.640] in the chat. Right now, I'm going to introduce our speakers. [01:47:09.640 --> 01:47:12.540] So, Andrea, how do you pronounce your last name? [01:47:12.540 --> 01:47:17.570] It rhymes with sedition, tuition, extradition, [01:47:18.060 --> 01:47:21.300] my kind friends say magician, [01:47:22.580 --> 01:47:25.320] rendition, you know, there's a lot. [01:47:25.320 --> 01:47:29.120] So, for those of you that were here yesterday, I've been butchering people's names, [01:47:29.120 --> 01:47:33.300] we have Andrea Matt-Busham, and a little bit about her. [01:47:33.300 --> 01:47:36.740] So, she is the Associate Dean of Innovation, [01:47:36.740 --> 01:47:41.480] Professor at Penn State Law, University Park. She is a [01:47:41.480 --> 01:47:45.200] Professor of Penn State Engineering, and she's also [01:47:45.200 --> 01:47:49.980] the Founding Director of the Penn State Policy Innovation Lab of Tomorrow. [01:47:49.980 --> 01:47:53.420] I don't know if you all heard, we're here for yesterday's talks, [01:47:53.420 --> 01:47:57.260] but there were several representatives of the pilot lab as well. [01:47:57.280 --> 01:48:01.420] So, without further ado, if you all want to start fielding [01:48:01.420 --> 01:48:05.700] some questions, please feel free. [01:48:05.700 --> 01:48:09.040] But before we begin, what is the most horrible [01:48:09.040 --> 01:48:11.400] mailbox you've seen so far, Andrea? [01:48:11.740 --> 01:48:17.080] The ones that my friend Miranda made me replace, because she was [01:48:17.080 --> 01:48:21.360] horrified that I would even consider leaving [01:48:21.360 --> 01:48:25.480] them up. There are a lot of well-loved [01:48:25.480 --> 01:48:29.300] mailboxes, like wooden ones that have been around [01:48:29.300 --> 01:48:31.680] for a long time, and... [01:48:31.680 --> 01:48:36.620] am I still...? [01:48:38.940 --> 01:48:41.380] Well-worn ones that have [01:48:41.380 --> 01:48:45.200] been weather-battered and well-loved and well-used by [01:48:45.200 --> 01:48:49.520] many series of homeowners, and so there were a [01:48:49.520 --> 01:48:53.440] few of those that were just sort of washed out, the wooden planks were washed out [01:48:53.440 --> 01:48:56.000] from the elements, or there were...