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0	5740	So let me, first of all, welcome you virtually to the DEF CON Ethics Village
6970	15020	and introduce you briefly to those who will be watching. This is FCC Commissioner Jeffrey
15020	24470	Starks. Commissioner Starks was sworn in as an FCC Commissioner on January 30th of 2019.
24870	32090	He had previous experience at the FCC, helping to lead efforts in the FCC's Enforcement Bureau
32090	37370	by, among other things, handling a number of complex investigations.
37370	43950	He also has prior Department of Justice experience as a Senior Advisor to the Deputy
43950	50030	Attorney General on a variety of domestic and international matters. And this was all during
50030	57130	the Obama Administration. And before Commissioner Starks entered federal public service,
57130	62230	he practiced law at Williams and Connolly, clerked on the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals,
62230	68550	and also served as a legislative staffer in the Illinois State Senate and worked as a financial
68550	75010	analyst. So thank you again for your time, Commissioner Starks. Let me just briefly say
75010	80330	my name is Stephanie Pell. I'm a professor at West Point. And because I work at West Point,
80330	86430	I'm always required to say whenever I open my mouth in public that even though this is about
86430	91330	you, we're going to be talking about your views, anything that should come out of my mouth
91330	98670	are my views and do not represent the views of West Point, the Army, or certainly the United
98670	106090	States government. So let me just start with an opening question, Commissioner Starks.
106090	113370	For those who may not be terribly familiar with the FCC, could you give us some brief
113370	119990	background about its structure and mandate, specifically in reference to the issues we
119990	126970	will discuss today? Yes. Well, as always, great to be in dialogue with you, Stephanie. Glad to
127550	133790	be joining DEF CON 2020, obviously virtually here this year in the ethics village in particular.
134450	139230	And so for viewers who might not be familiar with the FCC, it's an independent federal agency
139970	144970	established back in 1934 under the Communications Act, and we're charged with,
144970	150030	you know, regulating interstate and foreign communications by radio, television, wire,
150030	157790	satellite, and cable. And so to the structure of the commission, it's directed by five commissioners,
157790	163710	including myself. Each commissioner is appointed by the president, subject to Senate confirmation.
164010	169090	And because we're an independent agency, only three commissioners can be of the same political
169090	176270	party, the president obviously designating one commissioner as the chairperson. You know,
176270	182170	and to the breadth that we serve, we have seven bureaus, 10 offices of career civil servants for
182170	187390	the most part, senior engineers, economists, obviously a lot of this is wrapped up in their
187390	194550	expertise and experience with communications. And so Congress has given us significant and
194550	200270	specific responsibilities, but broadly we are regulating the nation's communication networks.
200270	205250	And so that includes, you know, promoting deployment of advanced communication services
205250	211930	like broadband, like we're going to talk about, ensuring best and highest use of wireless spectrum,
211930	218210	administering the universal service fund, which is a fund that ensures access to modern
218210	225230	communications for the low income, for rural folks, for schools, libraries, regulating foreign access
225230	230170	to U.S. communications marketplace. We may get into some of that a little bit later.
230820	236750	And then finally, you know, what folks would think of regulating radio and broadcast television. So
236750	242330	the last thing I'd kind of focus on rounding this out is, you know, because communications is such a
243230	249490	broad term, you know, some folks may think that we have certain authority that really isn't us.
249490	254110	And so when people think about who regulates Facebook, that is a lot of other people,
254110	262130	Department of Justice, the FTC. And so, you know, there are a lot of things that we do.
262130	268230	And then we obviously, you know, there are things that we have jurisdiction over,
268230	273730	but other folks have other points. And then if you have followed the issue of network neutrality,
273730	279250	you know, there is obviously, you know, some fluidity between administrations on what is
279250	286510	the extent of the FCC's authority and what's within our jurisdiction. I think we do have
286510	292410	authority to enforce network neutrality rules, but some of my, in particular, Republican majority
292410	298170	of the FCC disagrees with me. So that's kind of a little bit of the lay of the land, as it were.
298810	306530	Thanks. So as you acknowledged, in more normal times, we would be, you know, meeting in person,
306530	314270	having this discussion live in Vegas. So we're not doing that now. We've all had to adapt in
314570	322530	a number of ways, moving significant portions of our lives online, including work for those who
322530	330850	have college or school age children. You know, a good portion, if not all of their education,
330850	339410	has suddenly become virtual. So I'm wondering, how has your focus at the FCC and your work
340350	347310	changed since the beginning of COVID? Yeah, it's a great question. You know, in some ways,
347910	353010	through a certain lens, you know, the Commission has continued its work. We have all been working
353010	359630	remotely since March. And we have had, as we're required by statute, we've had monthly open
359630	366890	meetings, and we're voting items, and we are proceeding with our work apace. You know, but
366890	374630	in a lot of other ways, in particular, the issue of digital divide, and who has broadband access
374630	381490	and who doesn't, has been my top priority. But that really has been amplified in a lot of ways.
381490	386930	The last few months have laid bare the already cruel reality of the digital divide, that
386930	393150	millions and millions, tens of millions of Americans don't access, cannot afford broadband
393150	398870	connections that they need to telework, to access telemedicine now, to help young people learn,
398870	405250	as you mentioned. And addressing this long-running crisis has never been more urgent. When public
405250	410850	health requires social distancing, even quarantining, as many of us have been doing,
410850	415850	closing the digital divide has become central to our safety, and certainly it's powering our
415850	421390	economy. And so, you know, a number of weeks into the crisis, in early March, I published
421990	427550	an op-ed in the New York Times calling for a connectivity stimulus. We obviously have a lot
427550	434570	of ways where we're talking about stimulus for public health, for our economy. I think we need
434730	440510	a connectivity stimulus, because regulators, industry, we have to, and need to even now more
440510	446750	so than ever, dramatically expand access for broadband during this emergency. Some of those
446750	454570	ideas that I laid out initially in March have been implemented. We are leaning into the flexible use
454570	459810	of wireless spectrum that's underutilized. Broadband providers have joined the fight,
460430	465230	waiving some data caps, the Keep America Connected pledge, opening Wi-Fi networks.
465230	471590	But really, truth be told, Stephanie, it hasn't been enough. And I have called for us to do more.
471930	477950	We are... And speaking, if I can just, speaking of doing more, I want to
479510	485950	specifically reference a recent, an additional op-ed, a recent one that you co-authored with
486270	490970	a number of prominent civil rights leaders, the Reverend Al Sharpton, Venita Gupta,
490970	497990	Morial, and Morita Coley. And the op-ed, for those who haven't seen it, is entitled,
497990	505170	Broadband Access is a Civil Right We Can't Afford to Lose, But Many Can't Afford to Have.
505630	514270	In that piece, you and your co-authors speak directly to how COVID-19 has exposed this digital
514270	522250	divide. And could you talk more about the scope of that digital divide problem?
522250	529230	Yeah, happy to. And like I said, the digital divide was present even before COVID-19,
529230	537990	but it has really been exacerbated. And I wanted to emphasize that. The fact of the matter is that
539030	546330	the late John Lewis, one of my heroes, said that internet access is the civil rights issue
546330	557710	of the 21st century. And I agree. The Communication Act instructs us to make communication service
557710	563310	available to all Americans without discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion,
563310	572170	national origin, or sex. And so civil rights leaders have long held government accountable
572170	577870	where we have unfulfilled promises. And so closing this digital divide, I was honored,
577870	582370	deeply honored, to join some of those civil rights leaders talking about how, in particular,
582370	589690	with communities of color, we need to close the digital divide. As we outlined in the op-ed,
589690	599590	34% of African Americans, 39% of Latino adults, 47% of tribal groups all lack access to broadband
599590	605100	connection, significantly, disproportionately less so than their white counterparts.
605550	612610	And so when you're talking about civil rights issues, we have to have it access ubiquitous
612610	619130	for all. And it has to be right now. There needs to be a fierce urgency of now that we solve
619930	626790	these digital divide issues. And for communities of color, that means reliable and convenient access
626790	632270	to educational resources, to workplace materials, telemedicine, like I said.
632270	638910	You know, the fact of the matter is that we have... this is a rural issue in some ways,
638910	645850	making sure that folks get access everywhere. But the fact of the matter is that we've seen this
645850	651930	as well throughout the pandemic, that in densely, highly populated urban areas, there are nearly
651930	657770	three times as many households that remain unconnected. And that is frequently communities
657770	665050	of color. Over 18 million households lack broadband simply, solely, research estimates,
665050	669650	because it's too expensive. And so one of the things that I've called for, and have worked
669650	675830	with Congress on, is that for both the emergency and for the longer term, we need to have a more
675850	681350	affordable connection for millions of Americans to the internet. We know 50 million-plus Americans
681350	686330	have filed for unemployment assistance. And so making sure there is an affordable way that they
686330	691010	can connect to high-quality broadband is going to be important. Something else that I would talk on
691010	695710	really quickly here is the Lifeline program. It's the federal program specifically designed
696950	703430	to provide free or discounted telecom service to low-income Americans. We know that this program
703430	709570	is grossly underutilized. About seven and a half million Americans are on Lifeline right now,
709570	715630	despite over 38 million being eligible. And so we have got to make sure, for example,
715630	721390	we know that more Americans are on food assistance, on SNAP, right now than ever.
721390	727410	And if you have food insecurity issues, you probably also have digital insecurity issues.
727410	733870	So I've called for us to better coordinate with USDA that runs SNAP. If you are knocking on the
733870	738150	door for help there, we should also make sure that you get connected to the Lifeline program.
738150	742270	And so there's a lot of ways that we need to make sure that our government is not working
742270	748350	in silos right now. And I think that's really important. Sure. So these are... you've just
748350	754610	listed some very specific prescriptions that you and others in the civil rights community
754610	761510	have called for. How supportive, in your view, is Congress being? What can they do?
762030	769890	Yeah, you know, I think in particular, obviously, we are seeing that there is a new COVID...
770630	775490	I think it's the fifth part of the package that's being negotiated right now.
775570	781430	Broadband has still, to date, not been included in some of those congressional packages. And so
781430	787470	providing more money for E-Rate, another program that we have to provide money to schools. And the
787470	793050	fact of the matter is that how is education and schooling being performed right now? It's in
793050	797930	people's homes. So again, making sure that there's more money for E-Rate so that we can digitally
797930	804310	connect with our youngest learners, including post-secondary. Lifeline and focusing on the low
804310	808550	income has got to be an additional part of this dialogue. And then the third thing that I have
808550	815390	really focused on with folks in Congress is making sure that there is some type of an affordable
815390	822450	option that we are starting to think through as well in making sure that we have all houses
822450	827950	connected. It's past time for us to connect all Americans. And Congress is going to have to help
827950	839670	us out. Sure. So you started explaining the digital divide problem and then the prescriptions
839670	849590	for solution by referencing the civil rights icon, John Lewis. And I will just note that
849590	856070	that wonderful quote, access to the internet, is the civil rights issue of the 21st century,
856070	863750	which you said is in fact, and it's timely and a little chilling the way that you all ended your op-ed.
863750	872090	Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And when, you know, like I said, when John Lewis speaks,
872710	879130	thank God so many people listen. And so that quote from John Lewis many, many years ago is what
879130	885890	really kind of framed for me the ubiquity of broadband access being a civil right.
886010	892590	And so, like I said, was proud to partner with so many leaders on focusing on how we actually
892590	898130	make this thing start to happen. And in particular, like so many things that are going on right now,
898130	904470	both in the pandemic and also in the racial justice, not only the moment, but the movement
904470	910670	that we're seeing going on right now, and making sure that communities of color and the inequities
910670	918410	that we see with regard to broadband are part of that focus. Sure. So if I may, I'd like to switch
918410	927470	gears a bit and just reference the fact that there has been an ongoing debate about the extent to
927470	935270	which the FCC has jurisdiction over cyber security, or at least some aspects of cyber
935270	941930	security. There's different views on this. Can you sort of frame the contours of the debate
941930	950890	for us? And let us in on what side of the debate or where along its continuum you fall?
951070	956690	Sure, sure. Thank you. Great question. And so, you know, as you referenced in recent years,
957470	962230	various commissioners have expressed different views about how involved the FCC should be
962230	967250	in cyber security issues. During the Obama administration, I'd note, the FCC sought an
967250	973970	active role in cyber security. And the current chairman, of course, I would note, has been
973970	980490	much less involved. And so some of the differences fall on where people interpret our statutory
980490	987610	authority. Some of my colleagues, Republican colleagues, feel strongly that we should very
987610	995870	narrowly construe our instructions from Congress and, you know, only in a very limited scalpel-like
995870	1001970	way regulate cyber security when Congress expressly tells us to. I think that is too
1001970	1009490	narrow a view. The Communication Act, in setting up the FCC's authority even long ago in 1934,
1010490	1016410	said that it was creating the FCC. We were imbued in part for, you know, I quote,
1016410	1022270	the purpose of the national defense, purpose of promoting safety and life and property,
1022270	1029170	you know, close quote, if I'm memorizing it from memory. You know, and so I think we have a
1029170	1035250	responsibility for modern networks to raise these kinds of concerns. And the FCC should have
1035250	1040470	an active role. Some of the debate is practical moving on from some of the statutory,
1040470	1046690	has been anointed with leadership, a leadership role here. And so again, some of my colleagues
1046690	1056290	would shift all of that to DHS. And I think the FCC has valuable, essential, relevant expertise
1056290	1062930	and experience that should come to bear here. And so pushing it all to somebody else,
1062930	1068610	I think does us a disservice. And so, you know, I would also kind of briefly tick through what's
1068610	1074450	going in my mind is, you know, a couple of the ways where we do have a role here. We evaluate
1074450	1080770	license applications from foreign ownership. And this includes a national security review from team
1080770	1087030	telecom. For some of your viewers who may know, cybersecurity is also part of the process of
1087030	1094030	reviewing submarine cables. And this is a critical part of how we connect data and it's transmitted
1094030	1099150	across the world. So there are cybersecurity elements there. And then something that I've
1099150	1104130	really focused on, and that is removing untrustworthy equipment from our networks.
1104550	1110350	And, you know, we at the FCC, you know, in large part, because I kind of called and beat the drum
1110350	1117830	here, is focusing on removing this untrustworthy equipment where universal service fund, again,
1117830	1123490	this is the fund that we administer at the FCC, making sure it's not used to purchase insecure
1123490	1129490	equipment, Chinese equipment for Huawei ZTE, you know, I think are really important. And then the
1129490	1134070	kind of the last thing that I would mention is, you know, we have the Communications Assistance
1134070	1140110	for Law Enforcement at CALEA. I know you have a DOJ background as well, Stephanie. And so CALEA,
1140110	1148210	and this is also coming, you know, how we establish policies and procedures to prevent
1148770	1153010	unauthorized surveillance is something that continues to kind of flare up. And I think
1153010	1159190	it's something that we need to continue to have a voice in. And I do think that issue is not going
1159190	1170590	away anytime soon. So let's say for the sake of argument that it's January 21st, 2021. And I don't
1170590	1176950	have a crystal ball in front of me. But for the sake of argument, let's say there are now three,
1176950	1185310	instead of two Democratic FCC commissioners, let's say there are three like minded Democratic FCC
1185310	1196150	commissioners. And let's say you're incredibly influential among the three. So if you have that
1196150	1203930	kind of clout and influence, what kind of cybersecurity focused initiatives or actions
1203930	1211950	would you wish the commission to take? Well, I like the question. And I will say as well,
1211950	1219450	I'm not in the prognostication business. And so I'll focus on what some of my priorities
1220070	1227350	that I'm going to continue to be talking about, regardless of future administration. And so,
1227350	1232750	you know, the first thing I would focus on is, like I said, I was the commissioner who has met
1232750	1238670	the most with the small carriers who have insecure Huawei and ZTE equipment in their
1238670	1243970	infrastructure. I came out with find it, fix it, fund it. That was we need to find insecure
1243970	1249690	equipment, we need to fix it and remediate it, and then make sure we fund it. And so the last
1249690	1253910	part of that is something that we still need to work with Congress on. And so that would be
1253910	1259930	something that I would focus on. We have not appropriated funding for the repair and replacement
1259930	1266070	part of that. As a result, you know, we do have some, you know, recipients who are lacking the
1266070	1271630	funds to maintain their networks, even though we have already prohibited them from using Huawei
1271630	1279370	ZTE. And so, you know, I would focus in, you know, in the future in January, on making sure
1280070	1286970	we open up those lines of communication and have that better funding as well. You know,
1286970	1293330	I think that has to be priority number one on a network security and cybersecurity kind of front.
1293330	1298550	The second thing I would really focus on is, you know, kind of a vision board piece that I have
1298550	1304270	been focusing on for a while now. And that is, you know, promoting network security as part of our
1304270	1311210	communication network and development, and not proposing bandaid remedies, but really kind of
1311210	1317590	being forward-looking. And where I really see this coming about is in our 5G future,
1317590	1325330	and in particular, the Open Radio Access Network, or O-RAN, solutions, and making sure that we have,
1325330	1333370	going forward, a real American role in the distribution and single system of interoperable
1333370	1339010	hardware that emphasizes software, defined functions, open interfaces, cloud hierarchy.
1339010	1344390	All of these are going to start to come together. And so from a networking standpoint, increasing
1344390	1351070	efficiency, cost-effectiveness, you know, O-RAN is also going to provide the capability for
1351070	1358330	scale and design improvements, updates at lower costs, faster timetable. And so we've got to
1358330	1363670	continue to focus on this aspect of network security. And something that I've called for
1363670	1369410	even most recently, just even as last month, is that especially when we're talking about
1370170	1377030	in a rip-and-replace world, where we are, the American taxpayers are going to be rebuilding
1377030	1384190	these networks for a lot of carriers. I think it is, I think it is time for us to make sure that
1384190	1390770	some of those carriers hear from an O-RAN option. And so I think that's going to help promote it as
1390870	1396650	a business case, as a product, and making sure that O-RAN really goes from what some in this
1396650	1402010	administration have called pie in the sky, and really making sure that that O-RAN becomes part
1402010	1406770	of our real world. I think it's going to be a part of American security going forward.
1406970	1413990	The last thing that I would kind of be on my vision board is focusing on end-user device
1413990	1421990	security. As I mentioned in particular with the digital divide, lifeline phones and providers
1421990	1428710	often have low-cost devices. And so two common manufacturers of these low-cost devices are Huawei
1428710	1436270	and ZTE. And so when you're talking about those devices, it's been revealed that sometimes they
1436270	1441670	are embedded with malware, can be encrypted multiple times. And so some of the phone's
1441670	1447630	settings and applications make it virtually impossible to uninstall. And so that's an issue
1447630	1454490	that I have focused on. I think we need to make sure that the prices that people have around
1454490	1459650	using to pay for a phone that's affordable is not compromised on some of these security and privacy
1459650	1464550	issues. I think that's unacceptable. And because the commission has control over the lifeline
1464550	1469430	program, I think we need to use that authority. We're obligated to make sure that the basic
1469430	1475250	functionality here does keep our Americans secure. The last, last thing that I would mention that
1475250	1481390	I've called for a number of times is internal changes at the FCC. We need to create a national
1481390	1487250	security task force. The fact of the matter is that these network and national security issues
1487250	1494290	and the cross-section that they have with our network issues have continued to come up. And
1494290	1502610	we need to have a better, more collaborative way that we approach these issues rather than
1502610	1508430	it being kind of whack-a-mole even at the FCC. Internal coordination has got to increase.
1508550	1513470	We cannot have inconsistent treatment on these vital issues of national security.
1513530	1516810	And again, these issues just aren't going to diminish. Quite the opposite. I think the
1516810	1521190	complexity of these issues are going to only mean that we're going to have to step up more
1521190	1527450	and deal with these with a cross-collaborative mindset.
1528110	1542050	So, sort of to close out, it seems that you are very much focused not just on national security
1542050	1552350	and privacy, but how the practices that we implement, those values, those outcomes,
1552350	1560160	do not have disparate impacts on various communities. In other words, this needs to be
1560970	1566970	a holistic approach. And frankly, you are an advocate, it sounds like, for the FCC playing
1566970	1573950	an important role at addressing these issues in a holistic way and specifically in a way
1573950	1578250	that does not have a disparate impact on communities of color.
1578250	1584170	I could not agree more. And the fact of the matter is that so many of these issues,
1584170	1589130	when you're talking about network issues and cybersecurity issues and privacy issues,
1589130	1595450	so many of these are intertwined and commingled in ways that I think the FCC
1596290	1601450	has a real role and a real voice to play. When I look at some of the surveillance issues,
1601450	1606370	when I look at some of the AI issues, some of the algorithmic bias issues,
1606630	1612130	a lot of these are having a disproportionate impact on communities of color,
1612130	1617870	on the marginalized, on the most vulnerable. And so, I'm going to continue to use my voice
1617870	1626030	and use my platform to make sure that these are issues that have a spotlight shine,
1626030	1631630	and we're working through them with policy, and we're making sure that there is equity and
1631630	1640390	digital equity that is brought to bear on a lot of these issues. So, could not agree more on that
1640390	1647850	proposition. Well, Commissioner Starks, again, I promised your staff that I would keep
1647850	1657930	time on this and not make you late for your next Zoom or call, if you will. Yes. Thank you. Thank
1657930	1665990	you so much for your time. You know, hopefully, we'll be in a very different situation as a nation
1665990	1673050	and as a world next year, and we can continue the conversation in person in Vegas. I'll look
1673050	1676330	forward to it. Always good to talk to you, Stephanie. Thank you so much. Be well.
1677390	1678810	Thank you. Bye-bye.