WEBVTT 00:00.660 --> 00:01.920 Hey, SafeMode. 00:01.920 --> 00:03.340 Welcome to Hack to C. 00:03.360 --> 00:08.960 I'm Kitty, and I'm here to give you a brief explainer on what UUVs are and what their challenges are. 00:09.460 --> 00:17.960 So essentially, a UUV is an unmanned underwater vehicle, or as I like to say, an unpersonned or uncrewed underwater vehicle. 00:18.100 --> 00:21.980 Underneath the category of a UUV, there are two central subtypes. 00:21.980 --> 00:27.460 There's the AUV, the autonomous underwater vehicle, and the ROV, the remotely operated vehicle. 00:27.460 --> 00:38.520 And the key difference between these two is one is a self-guided, self-contained system, the AUV, and it makes its own decisions and completes its own tasks without human guidance or interference. 00:38.520 --> 00:49.520 The ROV, conversely, is usually a tethered system, but either way, it's connected to a human who's helping the machine complete its tasks and go along its guidance. 00:50.160 --> 00:53.480 Essentially, what we're talking about here are maritime robots. 00:53.560 --> 00:55.980 So why do we need maritime robots? 00:55.980 --> 01:00.160 Well, most of it is about exploring or extracting stuff from the ocean. 01:00.160 --> 01:07.020 And what we know about humans and the ocean is that if you put a human under the water on a long enough timeline, they tend to die. 01:07.020 --> 01:20.800 So the history of the development of technologies for exploration and extraction used to be about putting a suit around a human or putting a crew inside some sort of undersea shelter that would allow them to do the things they wanted to do. 01:20.800 --> 01:22.680 And that timeline is quite long. 01:22.680 --> 01:26.420 So what you're looking at in this image is an atmospheric diving suit. 01:26.420 --> 01:28.840 And that, I think, is an image from 2014. 01:29.040 --> 01:39.260 But more interestingly, the submarine you're looking at, what essentially looks like a barrel with a window on it, that model is from the 1700s. 01:39.260 --> 01:43.080 So the history of trying to extract and explore the ocean is quite long. 01:43.480 --> 01:52.000 The other thing that we tend to do under the ocean, largely brought on by a number of world wars, is we do tend to do fighting underneath the sea. 01:52.000 --> 01:55.760 And what you're looking at here is an example of an unmanned torpedo. 01:55.760 --> 02:05.080 So the way this works is, this person sits atop this torpedo, and in front of this person is a timed warhead. 02:05.080 --> 02:08.660 And what they do is they guide the torpedo to its location. 02:08.660 --> 02:20.900 The driver then drives the manned torpedo over near the enemy ship, attaches the warhead, and then drops and runs as, or swims as fast as they can to get away. 02:21.020 --> 02:26.040 So presumably, the people signing up for this job probably drew the short straw. 02:26.300 --> 02:36.860 But this is much of what drives the development, at least for militaries, for the creation of a UUV, because this is a high-risk environment. 02:37.380 --> 02:43.480 So what we're asking to do at Hack the Sea is for you guys to start thinking about ways to create some battle bots. 02:43.480 --> 02:53.340 And so I have three essential, easier and harder design sets that you want to start thinking about if you want to play next year at DEFCON 29. 02:53.340 --> 02:55.980 So the easier way to think about this is to tether. 02:55.980 --> 03:06.940 And so if you wanted to engage in your battle, and you wanted to tether your bot, you certainly have a lot of access to power, you certainly have a lot of access to data, and your maneuver capability is higher. 03:06.940 --> 03:08.620 But this is the easy model. 03:08.620 --> 03:14.360 And in all honesty, I would be surprised if we allowed people to operate tethered in this way. 03:14.360 --> 03:21.240 The harder challenge, and the one I think we want to see you guys do, is the untethered, remotely operated robot. 03:21.240 --> 03:24.580 But we will come out with guidance on that challenge pretty soon. 03:24.580 --> 03:31.100 But the problem with that untethered, remotely operated robot is that under the water, radio frequency doesn't work. 03:31.100 --> 03:34.800 And so you're pretty much left with sound and maybe light. 03:34.800 --> 03:36.560 And so good luck on that. 03:36.560 --> 03:38.780 And we look forward to seeing what you come up with. 03:39.180 --> 03:43.200 Another challenge that you want to think about is where on the water do you want to be? 03:43.200 --> 03:45.520 And we will have separate challenges for that. 03:45.520 --> 03:47.740 But essentially there are three general positions. 03:47.740 --> 03:51.420 There's your floaters, there's your swimmers, and there's your bottom crawlers. 03:51.420 --> 03:55.880 So your floaters will obviously have more access to light and potentially communication. 03:56.040 --> 04:03.700 Your bottom crawlers will be in their most austere position, but they will at least be able to locate where they are in the water because they can touch the bottom. 04:03.800 --> 04:11.320 And interestingly and quite challengingly, there are your free swimmers, and who even knows how you're going to figure out how to orient yourself in that condition. 04:11.800 --> 04:14.760 The other thing that you need to start thinking about is how to power it. 04:14.760 --> 04:21.260 So the way the military powers things, particularly with submarines, is either nuclear power or diesel-electric. 04:21.260 --> 04:24.420 These are probably not two categories you'll be allowed to use. 04:24.420 --> 04:27.320 So I look forward to seeing what you guys come up with. 04:28.160 --> 04:30.600 That is about it for my explainer on UUVs. 04:30.600 --> 04:45.280 I didn't want to take it on too long, but I do want to say that I know that you see me wearing a bow tie, and that bow tie is really because I want to dedicate this talk to a friend, a colleague, and a mentor, Will Bundy, who passed away this last December. 04:45.280 --> 04:55.380 He was a huge part of the Naval War College's move toward innovation, and he was a big proponent of thinking about all sorts of unmanned autonomous systems. 04:55.380 --> 04:59.340 And so I just wanted to say thanks, and we miss you. 05:00.840 --> 05:05.600 And now that that's done, I figured I would have a little fun at the back end of this video. 05:05.600 --> 05:18.280 So I tried to think about how to work in some sort of reference and a tie between a cocktail and this video, and I couldn't, so we're just gonna make a cocktail. 05:19.260 --> 05:39.880 So what you're gonna need, let me move my camera, in order to make a Manhattan in the style that I make a Manhattan, is you're going to need some bourbon, and you're going to need some vermouth, you're gonna need some bitters, some cherries, some ice, 05:41.140 --> 05:44.400 and a way to stir it. 05:46.280 --> 05:47.560 Let's give it a shot. 05:55.580 --> 06:05.160 Okay, so I tend to make a pretty stiff Manhattan, so I just want to warn you in advance if you follow my proportions, be prepared for a stiff drink. 06:05.280 --> 06:07.000 So you're gonna start with your bourbon. 06:07.000 --> 06:10.520 I have here something I bought from a local distillery, Filibuster. 06:10.520 --> 06:12.920 It's a really nice standard bourbon. 06:12.920 --> 06:15.500 They call it a whiskey because they age it in a different way. 06:15.500 --> 06:19.080 So you're gonna take two and a half parts of bourbon. 06:20.840 --> 06:22.060 That's one, 06:25.140 --> 06:27.340 two, and a half. 06:28.380 --> 06:30.560 You're gonna grab some vermouth, a sweet vermouth. 06:30.560 --> 06:36.200 I tend to use this thing called Carpano Antica, which is considered an Amaro, but that's fancy words. 06:36.200 --> 06:37.620 Just get a sweet vermouth. 06:37.620 --> 06:41.280 You'll learn over time what your favorites are, and I do one part of that. 06:44.480 --> 06:46.160 And then I'm gonna put my bitters in. 06:46.160 --> 06:47.820 So I go with two different kinds of bitters. 06:47.820 --> 06:51.680 I go with Angostura bitters, and then a little bit of what's called Tiki bitters. 06:51.680 --> 07:00.040 But really, you should play around as much as you want with the bitters until you find out whether you like that deep, Christmassy flavor or something more peppery, but that's entirely up to you. 07:00.120 --> 07:02.080 Put a little bit of this in here. 07:05.140 --> 07:07.320 Healthy dash of Angostura bitters. 07:09.780 --> 07:18.980 And the thing that I find that's most common and most interesting and important and also controversial, is I believe strongly in allowing the flavor of the cherry to come into the Manhattan. 07:19.120 --> 07:26.780 And so often what I'll do when I buy my cherries, is when I put the cherry in the drink. 07:29.740 --> 07:31.800 There, see, this is a tethering cherry. 07:32.300 --> 07:38.900 And I put just a little bit of the cherry juice into the Manhattan to give it just a little bit more cherry flavor. 07:40.500 --> 07:47.680 In the real world, you should be stirring this for somewhere 20 and 30 seconds to get that temperature way down there and to mix all the sugars together. 07:55.470 --> 08:00.830 And I have forgotten my skimmer, so I'll just put my finger down here. 08:07.910 --> 08:09.310 That's how you make a Manhattan. 08:10.750 --> 08:17.810 I will say for anybody who makes it all the way to the end of this video, hit me up at Defcon 29 and I will definitely help you make your own Manhattan. 08:18.070 --> 08:19.650 I look forward to seeing you guys. 08:20.470 --> 08:21.590 Hmm. 08:22.290 --> 08:24.390 I look forward to seeing the battle bots. 08:24.390 --> 08:25.550 Take care. 08:33.830 --> 08:35.410 Thanks guys. 08:37.880 --> 08:40.000 Turn this one off. 08:40.180 --> 08:41.020 All right. 08:41.020 --> 08:44.520 Let me turn my, no, my camera's on. 08:44.520 --> 08:47.140 Hey guys, I wanted to say thank you. 08:47.140 --> 08:49.180 I don't know why my camera's off. 08:49.500 --> 08:52.540 Share my screen. 08:52.540 --> 08:53.120 Who knows? 08:53.120 --> 08:54.040 Anyway. 08:55.220 --> 09:07.140 In all seriousness, the challenge that we're dreaming up for Hack to See, we're hoping to play out in 2021. 09:07.860 --> 09:15.060 And the kind of challenge we're really looking for is gonna be a hard, just try and do this the hard way, right? 09:15.060 --> 09:28.620 So there are gonna be two categories or classes and I wanna talk a little bit about the swimmers and then I'm gonna kick it over to Grant and Grant is gonna talk a little bit about the floaters. 09:28.660 --> 09:37.680 And so, and while I'm doing this part of the preso, feel free to text in some questions and answers. 09:37.680 --> 09:44.340 And then after Grant talks a little bit about his challenge on floaters, I wanna kick it over in a very weird way. 09:44.340 --> 09:47.880 You're gonna listen to him on my phone because we can't get his audio enabled. 09:48.540 --> 09:56.860 You're gonna listen to Dave talk about undersea IOT, which is a growing commonality in the water. 09:56.860 --> 09:58.540 So, okay, so here's the deal. 09:58.640 --> 10:05.620 Next summer, we would like to see you folks bring some bots to battle in the water. 10:05.620 --> 10:11.240 The swimmer class is going to hopefully operate untethered. 10:11.240 --> 10:12.620 Now, what does that mean? 10:12.620 --> 10:25.140 That means that all of that, all those advantages you have normally by attaching a tether to your bot so that it can go through an obstacle course aren't gonna be there. 10:26.200 --> 10:33.160 In particular, one of your greatest challenges is going to be power, and the other one is gonna be cons with your bot to get it to go through a system. 10:33.160 --> 10:35.260 You have all the opportunities you want. 10:35.260 --> 10:40.420 If you wanna make it an AUV, if you wanna make it autonomous, that's great, but you gotta be careful, right? 10:40.420 --> 10:42.120 Because it's an obstacle course. 10:42.120 --> 10:43.700 So here are the general rules. 10:43.700 --> 10:48.340 And then as we go forward, we will be sending out specifics and guidelines. 10:48.340 --> 10:53.620 But in general, we're hoping that your bot will not be any bigger than checked luggage. 10:53.620 --> 10:56.760 Ideally, it will be about the size of carry-on luggage. 10:56.760 --> 10:57.820 Why did we do that? 10:57.820 --> 11:00.660 We did that because we need you to get your bot to Vegas. 11:00.660 --> 11:03.600 And in order to get your bot to Vegas, it's gotta fit in some luggage. 11:03.600 --> 11:05.980 Otherwise, you'll have a hell of a time getting it here. 11:06.180 --> 11:13.400 So, checked luggage or carry-on luggage, and we'll be more specific about dimensions going on going forward. 11:13.420 --> 11:20.400 I can automatically tell that some of you are gonna wanna know, can it fit in checked luggage and then I can unfold it? 11:20.780 --> 11:22.440 Probably, but we'll figure it out. 11:22.440 --> 11:26.000 Ideally, your bot's gonna be untethered for power. 11:26.080 --> 11:33.940 We can talk later about whether or not you can do a glider motion, which is your bot can be underwater and then come up for comms and then go back down again. 11:35.560 --> 11:37.160 That's a valid design. 11:37.160 --> 11:38.140 We'll think about it. 11:38.140 --> 11:41.920 And again, we'll have clear guidelines here going forward. 11:42.180 --> 11:45.160 We're thinking no more than $1,000 expenditures. 11:45.160 --> 11:54.940 So, for those of you who are in makerspaces, if you wanna put a team together and start thinking about how to build this, we really don't want you to be buying the Gucci set. 11:55.260 --> 11:58.760 Cobble this together, make it work, but do it the hard way. 11:58.760 --> 12:01.000 And we're looking forward to seeing what you come up with. 12:01.000 --> 12:05.320 Like I said, reach out to me or reach out to Hack the Sea. 12:05.320 --> 12:06.800 We're at hackthesea.org. 12:07.300 --> 12:14.340 And we will have, in the coming weeks, the exact specifications and the gateways and challenges to get us moving forward. 12:14.440 --> 12:16.880 And if you have any other questions, I'm here. 12:16.880 --> 12:22.440 But at this point, I'm gonna kick it over to Grant, hopefully, and Grant will talk about the floater class. 12:24.480 --> 12:25.800 Hello. 12:26.120 --> 12:27.140 How are you? 12:27.140 --> 12:28.460 All right. 12:29.000 --> 12:30.940 Very excited to be here. 12:30.940 --> 12:34.020 My name is Grant from Ocean Builders. 12:34.020 --> 12:35.620 We are seasteaders. 12:35.620 --> 12:43.660 We are the ones that are famous for building a floating home in the water in Thailand. 12:43.660 --> 12:46.220 Let me see if I can share my screen here. 12:49.690 --> 12:51.150 Maybe that's not working. 12:51.750 --> 12:53.630 Okay, maybe I can't share my screen. 12:53.630 --> 12:54.130 Can you hear me? 12:54.130 --> 12:54.830 Okay. 12:56.570 --> 12:57.510 Okay. 12:57.890 --> 12:59.630 Now something went wrong. 12:59.630 --> 13:00.770 Okay, there it is. 13:00.770 --> 13:03.150 Okay, so maybe I can't share my screen. 13:03.570 --> 13:21.390 I was gonna show you some images of the original seastead that we built in Thailand that was very famously attacked by the Thai Navy and ended up turning into a 10-day manhunt by the Thai Navy. 13:21.390 --> 13:23.330 So it was a very interesting story. 13:23.330 --> 13:27.250 Right now, a book is being written about it as well as a screenplay for a movie. 13:27.250 --> 13:31.370 So I'll talk more about that in my official talk tomorrow. 13:31.830 --> 13:39.470 But I wanted to talk here about the challenge we're going to be doing for a floater. 13:39.670 --> 13:55.190 And for seasteading, something that's really important for us is to be able to have advanced warning if there's big waves or see what's actually going on in the area around us. 13:56.010 --> 14:00.810 So we would like to have some notice that there's big storms coming up and things like that. 14:01.730 --> 14:06.890 And also another purpose is to be able to observe the marine ecosystem around us. 14:07.170 --> 14:26.370 So we want to build what we call an aqua boy, like not a aqua boy, like a man, but the actual boys that float in the water and fill it with as many sensors that can give us very useful information as possible. 14:26.430 --> 14:41.470 So useful information can be water temperature, pH levels, salinity, turbidity, maybe even cameras connected and collect some data or maybe even have machine learning. 14:41.830 --> 14:46.570 So we'll be putting together the specifications on exactly what all the details are. 14:46.570 --> 14:52.170 We already have a bit of a cheat sheet pinned on our channel. 14:52.210 --> 14:55.270 So you can go and download what we have already. 14:55.270 --> 14:56.410 It's already there. 14:56.410 --> 15:02.050 And we'll just give you some information on the ideas that we have for what that is. 15:02.050 --> 15:05.070 And we'll revise that as we go along here. 15:05.070 --> 15:10.370 But we're pretty close to what we want for the specifications of what would be there. 15:11.990 --> 15:16.270 Ideally, we would have a maximum price and size, of course. 15:16.510 --> 15:21.610 It should be something you should be able to bring to Vegas, like Nina was saying, you should be able to transport it there. 15:21.610 --> 15:23.630 Otherwise, it doesn't make sense. 15:25.290 --> 15:42.090 And it would look like, it could look like something like a normal buoy that you see floating in the water that is kind of used for the red and green buoys that you see for direction for boats to navigate through some waterways. 15:42.090 --> 15:46.090 It could be very similar to those in kind of shape. 15:46.610 --> 15:54.330 And it can take, you know, can take under the water, there would be a sensor array above the water. 15:54.330 --> 15:56.610 There can be sensors in them as well. 15:56.990 --> 16:08.270 So it's really unfortunate I can't share my screen, but I'll maybe have that solved for the next talk. 16:08.290 --> 16:08.990 Tomorrow. 16:08.990 --> 16:14.250 And so I can go through a few of the details here that we had. 16:14.250 --> 16:18.410 There's also a link to join the challenge. 16:18.410 --> 16:37.210 So if anyone here wants to look at the challenge or look at some of the challenges we have that we're going to be doing over the next year, there's a link to a little survey signup form where you can actually put your name and information and kind of check off what your interests are. 16:37.210 --> 16:43.550 And I think we have something very unique because we are, like, this is Hack the Sea. 16:43.550 --> 16:46.150 Everyone's here to find out how to hack the sea. 16:46.550 --> 16:51.270 And this is, I think, a really interesting opportunity. 16:51.270 --> 16:57.750 We're at the time where all these technologies now exist for us to be able to do some really fantastic things on the ocean. 16:58.010 --> 17:00.950 And so we're out there doing it. 17:01.270 --> 17:02.390 We're seasteaders. 17:02.390 --> 17:03.990 We're actually building hardware. 17:03.990 --> 17:05.670 We're actually making things happen. 17:06.490 --> 17:11.690 People have been talking about building a city on the sea for decades, but no one's actually done it. 17:11.690 --> 17:17.470 So we're actually the first ones that are actually putting hardware together and putting it in the water. 17:17.470 --> 17:32.730 So we're really excited about being able to reach people and reach out to a community of hackers that likes building things and is passionate about building things and can help us to move everything forward. 17:32.730 --> 17:34.350 We're really looking for kind of... 17:34.350 --> 17:39.310 We're here mostly to do a call of action, to say, okay, here's the opportunities. 17:39.310 --> 17:43.570 The sea is wide open with all these incredible opportunities of what we can do. 17:43.890 --> 17:57.830 And I think now's a really amazing time to actually bring all these things together, do a call of action here to anyone that wants to participate and help us do some really interesting things. 17:57.830 --> 18:00.710 So we'll give a longer talk tomorrow. 18:00.710 --> 18:05.550 We'll have some videos and presentations around the whole thing. 18:05.850 --> 18:14.130 But I think we can probably pass it along back to Nina, who's going to patch through with Dave on the phone. 18:14.130 --> 18:15.730 Thanks a lot, Grant. 18:15.790 --> 18:17.810 Yep, so we got Dave on the phone. 18:17.810 --> 18:30.610 I do want to say, just as an addition to Grant's commentary here, we aren't looking to have people bring their proprietary source stuff, right, to the battle. 18:30.610 --> 18:34.890 We're looking for open source hardware and software on this one, right? 18:34.890 --> 18:36.130 Want to be able to share. 18:36.130 --> 18:37.190 That's the way that works. 18:37.190 --> 18:44.330 And so look for that to be a requirement in the battle guidelines. 18:44.330 --> 18:52.790 And so, all right, so this is awkward as hell, but I'm going to have Dave speak to you about the underwater IoT via my phone. 18:52.850 --> 18:53.910 So I'm just going to... 18:54.390 --> 18:57.830 I'm going to look to Grant to give me the thumbs up to see if he can hear Dave. 18:57.830 --> 18:59.090 Dave, take it away. 18:59.090 --> 19:00.970 Okay, can you hear me? 19:02.370 --> 19:05.670 I hope I don't get too much feedback here. 19:05.950 --> 19:07.430 So I'm kind of flying blind here. 19:07.430 --> 19:09.030 I'll do the best that I can. 19:11.210 --> 19:14.350 So I'm kind of flipping through my PowerPoint here. 19:14.910 --> 19:21.230 I didn't actually hear Nina's video, so I don't really know what she covered in terms of UUVs. 19:21.730 --> 19:35.270 But, you know, just to sort of put things in context, I guess, you know, UUVs, basically unmanned undersea vehicles, and, you know... 19:35.270 --> 19:36.510 Dave, I'm going to cut you off. 19:36.510 --> 19:37.090 Stand by one. 19:37.090 --> 19:37.810 I'm going to cut you off. 19:37.810 --> 19:39.210 We're getting way too much echo. 19:39.330 --> 19:40.550 Here's what I'm going to do. 19:40.650 --> 19:44.010 I think what we're going to do is we will... 19:44.010 --> 19:45.710 I'm talking to the whole world now. 19:47.450 --> 19:49.030 We're going to... 19:49.030 --> 19:53.530 We may try and ask you to dial in tomorrow and see if we can get you human plus status. 19:53.530 --> 19:58.410 So for the universe out there, unfortunately, Dave does not have human plus status. 19:58.410 --> 20:01.470 And so the video and audio functions aren't working. 20:01.810 --> 20:06.790 And so we'll have Imprezo out probably following Grant tomorrow, but we'll see if we can spin up. 20:06.850 --> 20:13.630 In the meantime, I'm going to take some questions and I'll see if I can grab Dave's slides. 20:13.630 --> 20:15.750 But just... 20:15.750 --> 20:25.190 Yeah, and then just as a takeaway, the undersea IOT stuff is actually really getting built out pretty aggressively. 20:25.190 --> 20:26.990 Dave, what's the timeline you figure? 20:32.630 --> 20:35.930 Within the next 10 years, next five or 10 years. 20:38.070 --> 20:39.190 Okay. 20:44.920 --> 20:50.260 As things progress with communications in the undersea, that's the critical path. 20:50.260 --> 20:52.300 Okay, Dave, we're going to have you... 20:52.300 --> 20:56.840 We're going to get you added to tomorrow's jam. 20:56.840 --> 20:59.580 So I'll do that on the back end and let me just take Q&A now. 20:59.580 --> 21:01.140 So we'll talk to you in a couple of minutes, Dave. 21:01.140 --> 21:02.280 Thanks so much for... 21:02.280 --> 21:03.180 We'll get there. 21:03.180 --> 21:04.260 Take it easy, man. 21:06.420 --> 21:13.020 All right, Grant, if you want to unmute, then we'll just take whatever questions come up. 21:13.640 --> 21:15.720 Or we can just riff until then. 21:16.220 --> 21:20.280 Well, I'm really excited to hear about the underwater IOT from Dave. 21:20.280 --> 21:23.320 I'm glad to hear it. 21:23.700 --> 21:26.640 So, okay, so why don't you and I talk about... 21:26.640 --> 21:28.900 Why don't you and I talk about, like, why does it... 21:28.900 --> 21:31.220 What's so hard about UUVs? 21:31.220 --> 21:33.220 Like, why does that... 21:33.220 --> 21:35.120 We have plenty of flying drones. 21:35.120 --> 21:38.940 Like, what's the special challenge about being under the water? 21:38.940 --> 21:44.680 And you can talk about this from the seasteading perspective and I can talk about it from the naval perspective, but I'll kick it off to you first. 21:45.440 --> 21:50.980 Well, it's communication, getting the data from whatever is... 21:50.980 --> 21:56.640 When you're underwater, you can't send a radio signal above... 21:56.640 --> 21:58.240 You know, it doesn't travel. 21:58.240 --> 22:01.280 So that's the core problem. 22:01.280 --> 22:02.260 So if we... 22:02.920 --> 22:03.680 Go ahead. 22:03.880 --> 22:13.620 If we can solve that, or if there's a solution or some way of communicating, that would be incredible. 22:13.620 --> 22:15.340 That could be a game changer. 22:15.800 --> 22:17.440 So, I mean, I think this is... 22:17.440 --> 22:23.200 This can't be stressed strongly enough when I've been talking to roboticists who do undersea stuff. 22:23.380 --> 22:30.700 One of the core challenges and why people are talking about going autonomous with their robots is this problem of communication. 22:30.700 --> 22:45.100 So for those folks who don't play around in the water stuff, radio frequency, the way in which comms work, wireless comms, you know, the way in which our drones fly, that is not a thing you get to do under the water. 22:45.100 --> 22:52.100 You're left with two sources of signals under the water, unless you count Dave's undersea IOT. 22:52.100 --> 22:54.200 But you're really looking at light and sonar. 22:54.200 --> 22:56.860 Grant, do you know of any other ways besides light and sonar? 22:56.860 --> 22:58.040 Sound and light? 22:58.400 --> 22:59.340 No. 22:59.340 --> 23:01.460 Yeah, I'm not either. 23:01.460 --> 23:05.280 So I'm curious to see what Dave has to see about an undersea IOT. 23:06.840 --> 23:16.080 But really, so now you're talking about a bot that is either working on delayed comms, or if you're going to do light, you got to worry about some other problems. 23:16.080 --> 23:21.280 And so there are also additional issues, which is the bathymetry of the water. 23:21.280 --> 23:22.420 So how deep is it? 23:22.420 --> 23:28.720 You get different pressure, the farther you go down, you get different resistance on the hull itself. 23:29.180 --> 23:35.260 Grant, are you familiar at all what happens when you put a lithium ion battery encased in a small shell and put it underwater? 23:37.680 --> 23:41.340 No, I haven't really researched much on... 23:41.340 --> 23:44.620 And if the battery off-gases, what do you have then? 23:45.440 --> 23:47.580 You have a pipeline. 23:49.300 --> 23:55.560 So the other problem we're going to deal with in that UUV category is power. 23:55.880 --> 24:18.040 And so this is a very serious issue, that even if you get a really good lithium ion battery in that bot, and it's operating autonomously underwater, now you have to worry about whether or not the encasement, the shell, is secure enough so as to prevent a serious problem with that. 24:18.040 --> 24:22.380 The other way you could do it is you could try and create some floater that follows along. 24:22.380 --> 24:25.420 But again, this is really up to the hackers to figure out. 24:26.760 --> 24:35.280 But we're really going to try and push you guys on the edges of how much power can you pack into one of those things and make it operate untethered? 24:35.280 --> 24:36.940 And how are you going to get it to communicate? 24:37.040 --> 24:39.720 And by the way, if you get really smart ways to communicate... 24:42.200 --> 24:45.340 I'm just assuming other people are going to be messing with you too. 24:45.340 --> 24:48.600 I could be wrong about that, but I'm guessing they're gonna. 24:48.720 --> 24:51.960 So the undersea problem is a real one. 24:52.020 --> 24:56.440 The other problem that we're talking about for swimmers is orientation. 24:56.720 --> 25:00.440 So for bottom-crawling bots, they've got the ground they can orient, right? 25:00.440 --> 25:03.600 So now they're left with four directions, forward, back, left, and right. 25:03.880 --> 25:10.020 Similarly for floaters, you're going to be on the water surface, forward, back, left, and right. 25:10.020 --> 25:14.700 But if you're a swimmer, you have two more dimensions to worry about, and that's up-down. 25:14.700 --> 25:23.180 So if you're thinking about trying to orient yourself in the water, not only do you have to figure out where you are with no real touch points, but you've got six directions to worry about. 25:23.180 --> 25:25.960 So again, I don't know how our hackers are going to deal with it. 25:25.960 --> 25:29.940 I don't know what they're going to do to solve their problem, but I'm crossing my fingers for them. 25:31.080 --> 25:33.120 Grant, do you want to talk about the floater class? 25:33.840 --> 25:35.500 Um, yes. 25:35.500 --> 25:46.860 So actually, now that you're mentioning it, we talked with Brian, I talked with Brian about a number of different possible ideas and challenges. 25:46.860 --> 25:52.620 And we talked about having a stationary buoy that collects data, sensor data. 25:52.620 --> 26:01.640 And then we also talked about having a, like a robo boat, basically, a robot boat that moves around. 26:02.600 --> 26:09.080 And so for the, for the floater, are we talking about the moving version or the stationary? 26:10.080 --> 26:14.080 I, whichever one you're thinking about, I mean, this is for you guys to build out. 26:14.080 --> 26:14.860 Good luck. 26:15.200 --> 26:16.580 All right, yeah, okay. 26:17.280 --> 26:24.480 So then I think the simplest and probably the best thing to start with would be the stationary. 26:24.480 --> 26:26.180 That's going to stay in one place. 26:26.740 --> 26:46.980 So that is, for that it's, that technology is really critical for us because we would really like to know what the conditions are in our area and be able to put those stations in remote areas and collect data before we even decide to ever go there. 26:47.080 --> 26:50.980 So we can actually be collecting data and see what the conditions are year round. 26:50.980 --> 26:53.920 And if it's a hospitable place to put a seastead. 26:54.020 --> 26:58.840 So it'll just be there collecting data maybe for a year before we would actually move there. 26:59.560 --> 27:03.000 Like we'd collect wave height data. 27:03.000 --> 27:09.800 So we'd actually be able to collect the data on whether the buoy was going up and down, what the rate of going up and down is. 27:09.800 --> 27:12.400 So we'll be able to see what kind of waves we have. 27:12.400 --> 27:25.560 If we have really crazy out of control waves or if we have a slow and steady, very calm that you'd actually want to live in because living in big waves is not necessarily fun to do. 27:26.080 --> 27:30.800 Our homes are actually, we've engineered the homes so they actually float above the water. 27:30.800 --> 27:38.000 So we're suspended on a pole that is about two and a half meters above the wave area. 27:38.100 --> 27:47.920 So that makes us very comfortable, but still when it's really, really, when the conditions are really wavy, then it's still not nice to live in. 27:48.220 --> 27:51.800 So being able to collect all that data in advance is really good. 27:51.800 --> 28:11.180 And we also really want to have clear data that can show the current state of the environment before we put a seastead in that area, because we don't want to, three years from now, cause any kind of damage to the local marine environment. 28:11.180 --> 28:19.120 We want to make sure that our homes, we're actually engineering them so that they can be eco-restorative and not damaging. 28:20.040 --> 28:27.580 So for that, the more clear data we get as a reference, then that really helps us out a lot. 28:27.840 --> 28:41.620 Grant, I have a question from the audience, but I wanted to do just a follow-on question to what you're talking about, which is, is there a specific sort of climatological limit to where you're seasteading? 28:41.620 --> 28:52.480 What, I mean, is there, you were talking about Thailand, which is a pretty tremendous space, but are there places where you're like, this is just a terrible idea or the technology is not there yet? 28:52.480 --> 28:54.840 Is there an optimal zone for seasteading? 28:55.640 --> 28:57.280 Yes, there is. 28:57.740 --> 29:07.720 We are in Panama right now, and that is pretty much the optimal location to start because Panama is outside of the hurricane zone. 29:07.900 --> 29:19.700 There's a, I guess, seven or 800 kilometer band around the center of the earth, around the equator, where you don't have hurricanes, just because of the way the Coriolis effect of the earth works. 29:19.700 --> 29:22.240 You just can't get hurricanes in that area. 29:22.240 --> 29:31.320 So that's an ideal place to start because we don't have to worry about moving our home every year when the hurricane season starts again. 29:31.380 --> 29:33.440 So that's an ideal area. 29:34.240 --> 29:46.840 Obviously, a lot of people like being in warm, tropical, beautiful areas, and Panama has a lot of beautiful, untouched, green, jungly areas that are beautiful. 29:46.880 --> 29:53.340 And having your seastead close to land, so you have beautiful view of the mountains and the greeneries, it's really nice. 29:53.340 --> 30:04.580 So that kind of environment's really ideal versus putting it in the North Sea, in the Arctic somewhere, or someplace really cold with 100 foot waves. 30:05.540 --> 30:07.960 That's definitely someplace you don't want to be. 30:07.960 --> 30:12.220 We can engineer them for different conditions. 30:12.220 --> 30:18.180 Like our base of our seastead is actually built in the same base as a, like an oil rig. 30:18.180 --> 30:24.240 So we have these deep spars, which are poles that go deep into the water that have, that create the buoyancy. 30:24.240 --> 30:30.920 And then you have very heavy weight far below them, below the spar, and that gives you a lot of stability. 30:30.920 --> 30:33.400 So we have buoyancy as well as stability. 30:33.440 --> 30:44.540 And then we can just scale that up to something the size of an oil rig, which can be in pretty nasty conditions, but we, it's probably some place you don't want to live. 30:46.160 --> 31:01.200 Okay, so the question that came in is, do we see, are we aware of rovers or bots that use VR, virtual reality vision, navigation or virtual reality vision for operators? 31:01.200 --> 31:05.340 Do you see any advantage in that, or are more traditional methods of computer vision more useful? 31:05.740 --> 31:12.540 So this is a question about how the bot understands the environment that it's in. 31:12.980 --> 31:14.720 Grant, do you have any early thoughts on that? 31:14.720 --> 31:19.640 And then I will dial through my mental Rolodex and try and remember a time for the Navy. 31:19.640 --> 31:20.060 Go ahead. 31:21.600 --> 31:48.660 I think that would be the ideal condition for us to have as far as giving people a really good idea of what living on the water can be like, but actually like being able to have them either remotely or onsite, where they can actually put on a headset and like swim through the water and see underneath the water and see what's going on. 31:48.660 --> 32:06.960 If we could give that kind of experience to people either remotely or onsite, that they could actually experience it in that way, that would give a dimension that people haven't really had before and to be super interactive and be able to explore the area. 32:07.000 --> 32:19.960 And so from a tourist kind of point of view, or to get people kind of introduced to this whole new way of living and being, which is totally foreign to most people living on the ocean. 32:19.960 --> 32:22.300 That's a big step for most people. 32:22.300 --> 32:31.700 But if you can kind of have those baby steps to give them a little vision of some pretty incredible sights that you wouldn't normally see, that would be really, really fantastic. 32:32.240 --> 32:33.580 Yeah, so Grant, I agree. 32:33.580 --> 32:41.960 Like I think really, particularly for tourism, getting people to sort of buy in and understand what it's like to be down there. 32:42.080 --> 32:44.340 I mean, there's something... 32:44.340 --> 32:45.500 We are human, right? 32:45.500 --> 32:46.900 There's something compelling. 32:46.900 --> 32:48.080 We are sense animals. 32:48.080 --> 32:53.260 And if you can get more sense that a human can understand down there, that is super helpful. 32:53.260 --> 33:06.260 I will admit that to my knowledge, Navy, who is not particularly interested in human sense, but is more interested in sort of targeting, fixing, tracking, their challenge set is already super hard. 33:06.680 --> 33:26.620 So for instance, so if you're a big Navy asset and somebody has fired something at you from far, far away under the water, like your biggest concern is by the time you figured out where it is, if it has any self-guiding capabilities, then you're gonna try and counterfeit, 33:26.620 --> 33:28.120 that gets military really fast. 33:28.120 --> 33:31.940 You're gonna try and counter fire, but you have to try and guess where it's gonna be. 33:32.440 --> 33:37.180 And so a lot of that stuff isn't really VR relevant. 33:37.180 --> 33:40.080 Navy is really thinking about how do I stop someone from hitting me? 33:40.080 --> 33:45.240 Really, 99% of Navy's question is how do I avoid getting struck by something? 33:46.440 --> 33:56.500 And so, but I love the question about VR because I think it makes me think that we're not thinking broadly enough in the Navy about the way to onboard these new capabilities. 33:56.540 --> 33:59.520 Grant, I have another question for you, if you don't mind. 33:59.520 --> 34:00.340 Sure. 34:00.500 --> 34:08.040 Okay, so it says, do the homes have any built-in capability to collect data from the environment around them? 34:08.040 --> 34:15.200 So like, not just sort of like something you, but like in and of itself, built into the infrastructure of the seastead itself. 34:16.420 --> 34:27.300 Yes, we're building as many sensors as we can into homes to make them really, we want to make them smartest home on the sea. 34:27.300 --> 34:32.600 Well, they will be because there's not a lot of smart, really smart homes on the sea because we're the only ones building. 34:34.060 --> 34:55.420 So first level, we have a weather sensor that's on the roof that detects lightning strikes and detects UV, the wind direction and a whole host of data, humidity, temperature, barometric pressure. 34:55.420 --> 34:59.260 And so there's a long list of things that it collects right from there. 34:59.520 --> 35:19.120 We will have sensors inside that will detect movement because we want to be able to chart what the movement's like if we are getting, and say, if you're away from your home for a while and then your home starts moving around for some reason, we would like to be able to give you an alert. 35:19.120 --> 35:27.240 Maybe there's a big storm coming and you can call your neighbor and ask him to close the doors or something or close the windows or whatever. 35:27.680 --> 35:32.960 Or you can just do it remotely from your handheld, from your phone. 35:33.700 --> 35:38.040 So we're building a lot of sensors like that. 35:39.040 --> 35:47.820 I can't even, there's gonna be standard sensors, but environmental sensors, we'll have as many as we can. 35:47.820 --> 35:54.460 We would like to be able to detect the temperature of the water at different levels going down. 35:54.460 --> 36:05.600 We'd like to be able to turn each home basically into research station and document the environment, the marine environment we're in because we're not just trying to make homes on the water. 36:05.600 --> 36:10.760 We're trying to make homes that are a positive contribution to the environment. 36:10.760 --> 36:17.380 So part of doing that is to be able to assess what the environment is like and if we're improving it or not improving it. 36:17.380 --> 36:28.900 So we want to measure the turbidity, the alkalinity, the pH and all the same thing and other factors. 36:28.900 --> 36:40.220 So we can see if there's more life after they've, our homes have been in the water for a couple of years or a couple of months or whatever. 36:40.220 --> 36:54.340 When we had our home in Thailand after only two months of being in the water, it went from being like a desert basically under the water, which most of the water, most of the ocean is a desert when you get far away from the coast. 36:54.800 --> 36:57.060 And we're 13 miles away from the coast. 36:57.060 --> 37:03.980 So in that case, after two months, we went from having nothing around to having thousands and thousands of fish. 37:04.100 --> 37:08.280 So we like having that kind of success story and we'd like to be able to reproduce that. 37:08.280 --> 37:12.220 So we're gonna try to use sensors to collect as much data as we can. 37:13.080 --> 37:20.500 So this is a, I mean, so the, so sorry, I don't want to make this super military, but please forgive me, Grant. 37:20.620 --> 37:24.540 It's, you know, I have to translate for the war types of us out here. 37:24.940 --> 37:28.580 So you're talking about an ISR environment and where all that data is going. 37:28.580 --> 37:44.640 And I wonder what, so from a person who doesn't want everything to be about the military, but knows once the military gets a hold of something, they're gonna make it about the military. 37:45.100 --> 37:51.840 It's just, it's an interesting side effect of that mindset. 37:51.840 --> 38:02.080 Do you have any security concerns about the data that you're collecting being used against the countries where your homesteads are? 38:02.860 --> 38:05.740 That's a terrible, I'm super sorry I had to ask it. 38:05.740 --> 38:06.880 I'm sorry. 38:07.340 --> 38:09.420 Yeah, no security is an issue. 38:09.420 --> 38:10.400 Come on. 38:10.460 --> 38:41.180 Yeah, well, that's why I already spoke with Brian a couple, maybe a week ago about having all of our systems have security threat analysis done on, even each of our sensors, all the hardware we're going to be using, all of our systems, and then just have people try to hack it and see what they can come up with and try to patch as many of those things as possible. 38:42.760 --> 39:05.720 So we're going to, what we want to do is to be able to have all this data and you can get your Seastead and not put all this stuff in it, but I would like to be able to collect data and we can, as if you're an owner of the Seastead, you can have the option of having that data where that's available to you and only you, 39:05.720 --> 39:17.800 and that's encrypted, and you're the only one that has access to it and we'll probably put it on a blockchain or whatever makes sense to, and then you can release the data if you want to share that with anyone else. 39:18.780 --> 39:35.800 If you want to share it with, like you can share it with just yourself, you can share it publicly, or you could share it just with like a management company that can see, okay, that the sensor at your house is showing that your water levels are getting really low and you need to, 39:35.800 --> 39:41.260 I don't know, replace your something on your home because it's at a critical level. 39:41.260 --> 39:53.180 Or if your battery level's too low and your power system's not going to be able to continue and you're away, then we can come and help take care of that or management company can come in and take care of that. 39:53.180 --> 40:04.760 So there has to be, I think, different permission levels for where your data's going to go and there has to be really good testing to make sure hackers have a hard time getting in, as hard as possible. 40:05.000 --> 40:21.700 Yeah, no, that's, I mean, it's interesting because we live in an era where seemingly innocuous information, right, I mean, this is the big debate, not to go super meta, but this is the big debate about, like, what's the harm in TikTok, right? 40:21.700 --> 40:28.620 Like, what is the harm in, we can just say a company, but we can also say a country, right? 40:28.700 --> 40:31.800 Both can be equally evil. 40:32.240 --> 40:38.720 What is the harm in all of this seemingly innocuous data being built up? 40:38.800 --> 40:59.800 And so not to, and honestly, everybody should tune in tomorrow for Grant's talk on C7 specifically, but just to sort of open the door a little bit, what kinds of concerns do you have about big data that you're collecting? 40:59.800 --> 41:04.420 Like , have you thought through what someone might use that stuff for? 41:06.960 --> 41:21.980 I'm an optimist, so I always look at, I always look towards the positive, so I'm looking at what amazing things we can do, because I genuinely, I'm not doing this because I need to do another project. 41:22.260 --> 41:36.600 I'm doing this because I love doing this, and I want to do something that I think we can, I think when we build homes on land, we kind of destroy the land, and , you know, clear cut the forest, and that's not, you know, it's not a good, we're not being a good citizen of the planet. 41:36.720 --> 41:51.640 But I think there's, what I saw last year in Thailand, with so much life all of a sudden just appearing after just two months, that gives us an opportunity to actually be a good citizen of the planet. 41:51.680 --> 42:08.160 So I'd like to, I see this as, I always look at the ways of making an improvement to the situation, and I think we can use data to help improve the restoration of coral reefs in the world. 42:08.680 --> 42:17.720 So I'm going to, I'm going to plus up, because there's a question that's come through a little bit further about the telemetry data that you could collect passively from these seasteads. 42:17.720 --> 42:34.340 And I'm going to ask it specifically because folks are asking, and then, and I realize we're going to run out of time here in about 14 minutes, but, and you and I will again, talk through and invite people to join us in next year's bot challenge. 42:34.340 --> 42:40.080 But the question again is, are you guys thinking about this from an educational standpoint? 42:40.080 --> 42:54.800 Like this, the data you're collecting doesn't, I mean, you guys are looking to benefit the environment directly, but I mean, is there like, is there some sort of partnership or subsidies, like educational institutes? 42:54.800 --> 43:05.400 Like, are you trying to partner to try and, and make all of this telemetry have effects beyond just the seasteading element? 43:07.240 --> 43:13.020 About two weeks ago, we started reaching out to people that we could partner with. 43:13.200 --> 43:18.800 I basically have 150 projects, like huge projects going on simultaneously. 43:18.800 --> 43:22.200 So, and it's all filtering through me at the moment. 43:22.200 --> 43:24.220 So that's a little bit- This is how we know you're a hacker. 43:24.220 --> 43:25.200 Go ahead. 43:26.340 --> 43:37.580 So I'm trying to bring more people on board to help distribute some of the research because there's just so much I can do. 43:39.540 --> 43:42.720 But I would, yeah, there's 43:45.980 --> 43:47.320 a lot filtering through me right now. 43:47.320 --> 43:49.840 So we need to get a better handle on that. 43:49.840 --> 43:58.120 And then I think we'll be in a pretty good position to make, to do some really good things with the data. 44:00.300 --> 44:08.080 So I guess partners, there's a lot of people we could partner with and that's just another project to find the right partners. 44:08.080 --> 44:15.440 And I have started to, we have started to look, we've started to reach out to find the right people that would like to partner with us. 44:15.440 --> 44:19.840 And we're open to, if anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears. 44:19.980 --> 44:24.560 Just send it in the chat or on the Seasteading channel. 44:25.900 --> 44:26.680 Cool. 44:26.680 --> 44:27.860 Thank you so much, Grant. 44:27.860 --> 44:31.040 All right, so we're going to round this out. 44:31.220 --> 44:39.020 Actually, StrikePod has a question for us that I think we should probably address or at least take seriously as we build out our guidelines. 44:39.020 --> 44:44.720 He wants to know to what degree are COTS products allowed? 44:44.720 --> 44:59.920 So consumer off the shelf products in building either your floater class or my swimmer class, can we buy some local bot for 300 bucks and then just repurpose it? 44:59.920 --> 45:04.440 And does that stay within our open source guidelines requirement? 45:04.620 --> 45:14.720 And I realized that we're asking on the fly because I know you and I were going to try and sit down together and noodle out exactly what kinds of limitations we want to slap on these folks for next year. 45:14.840 --> 45:18.680 But do you want to take a stab at COTS products? 45:19.140 --> 45:22.800 And then I'll give my preliminary thoughts on that. 45:23.740 --> 45:38.520 Yeah, I really want to have this done in the open source and I guess if that interferes with that, then that's like kind of kills it. 45:38.520 --> 45:52.880 So if you're buying something off the shelf and then modifying everything on top of that, I don't think that would give enough of a open source component. 45:53.400 --> 46:15.200 Maybe if there's a consumer part that, I don't know, is maybe like, I don't know, an off-the-shelf robot arm or something that could be plugged into the whole system and that wasn't an essential part of it, then I guess that could be acceptable. 46:15.200 --> 46:25.040 But if you're just modifying an off-the-shelf aquatic drone, then I don't think that would be... 46:25.040 --> 46:33.420 I think if the guts, the core guts of it are commercial and closed source, then I think that would be a killer. 46:35.300 --> 46:37.280 I think I agree. 46:37.280 --> 46:40.180 Again, we're doing this on the fly as we dream this up. 46:42.060 --> 46:52.820 And before we wrap out, I'm going to have Grant remind us of what he thinks the early speculation, what the floater class requirements are going to be. 46:52.820 --> 46:55.020 And I know he's been working up a sheet on that. 46:55.780 --> 47:04.120 But I am inclined to say that if you want to use a COTS product for pricing components, right? 47:04.120 --> 47:07.120 So we have $1,000 limit on the swimmer class. 47:07.120 --> 47:32.240 If you want to use a COTS product, you at a minimum need to show me that it has been reverse engineered such that you are really economizing on costs for private production of a servo, but you would at least have to prove to me that like, no, look, it's been reverse engineered and those reverse engineered components are available, 47:32.240 --> 47:34.840 open source, and so a person can sit down and do that stuff. 47:34.840 --> 47:36.720 I am just cutting to the chase. 47:37.060 --> 47:40.520 And I think that's fair, but you have to show me that it was the case. 47:40.520 --> 47:55.960 And I think that, again, so for the swimmer class, we're going to have some gates that people are going to have to go through throughout the year, because we want to make sure that by the time we get to the pool in Las Vegas, we have got some, you know, 47:55.960 --> 47:59.660 no shit, seriously interesting bots. 47:59.660 --> 48:01.200 They might be dumb, right? 48:01.200 --> 48:14.020 They might be running into the wall repeatedly, but then we've got some bots that, you know, at a minimum, like our pool maker gear thought through and are going to behave in interesting ways that we had not anticipated. 48:14.060 --> 48:20.000 Then part of the fun of the hackerspace is just giving it a shot and seeing all the variation that emerges. 48:20.000 --> 48:26.580 One of the most beautiful parts of this community is that everybody's teaching us different ways to go at a question. 48:26.580 --> 48:28.560 So we're not trying to close that down. 48:28.560 --> 48:33.880 In fact, I'm trying to open it up, which is why we don't want this to be about COTS, right? 48:33.880 --> 48:43.300 We don't want this to be about, we want you to show us all the ways in which you're coming at, I don't want you to tether for power in a curiously interesting way. 48:44.420 --> 48:47.680 You know, there's a lot of urine in Vegas pools. 48:47.680 --> 48:50.160 Maybe you can use that as a power source, hard to say. 48:50.160 --> 48:53.980 But you know, sort of speculate and then think your way through it. 48:54.420 --> 49:00.220 If we have any luck, we will be able to secure a Las Vegas pool to do this in. 49:01.240 --> 49:08.140 And so, you know, really just try and get a tan a little bit so that you don't die under the Vegas sun. 49:08.200 --> 49:22.700 And okay, so Grant, I want you, as we ramp out of the eight minutes left, give me, again, just to recap for the folks, give me the primary challenges, the floater class are going to come up against. 49:22.700 --> 49:26.640 What are the primary, you're like, this, I think this is really the issue. 49:28.680 --> 49:38.040 Well, the big piece of it would be to be able to collect data and store it, but also send it. 49:38.340 --> 49:39.100 And sending 49:42.540 --> 49:54.300 a distance on the water could be a little bit tricky, could be a little bit challenging, because we may not have a station nearby where we can just, we're just sitting there waiting for the data to come in. 49:54.460 --> 49:57.920 But to be useful, we have to be able to collect it. 49:57.980 --> 50:03.220 And some of these could be fairly remote in areas that are hard to get to. 50:03.220 --> 50:11.300 So it would be very advantageous to have as long of a transmission period as possible. 50:11.300 --> 50:15.020 I don't know how I will test that in Vegas in a pool. 50:15.320 --> 50:16.580 Good luck. 50:17.080 --> 50:29.860 Yeah, so maybe we'll have a team three miles away and seeing if they can pick up the sensor data from the pool, that could possibly work. 50:30.540 --> 50:33.060 So that's going to be really important. 50:33.060 --> 50:39.800 Being able to check wave height is really important. 50:40.000 --> 50:41.300 Interesting, yes. 50:41.300 --> 50:43.420 I'm sorry, I haven't been thinking about surface vehicles. 50:43.420 --> 50:44.580 Oh, you're totally right. 50:44.580 --> 50:45.880 Okay, go on, sorry. 50:45.880 --> 50:47.600 It didn't mean to interrupt, duh. 50:47.660 --> 50:48.960 All right, go ahead. 50:49.080 --> 50:57.640 We would like to be able to know how big the waves are, what the period between the waves is. 50:57.860 --> 51:00.680 So all that data is really useful. 51:00.720 --> 51:06.760 We'd like to find out if there's a way to find out the direction of the waves from sensors. 51:07.140 --> 51:10.520 And I was trying to figure out myself how I would do that. 51:10.520 --> 51:23.660 And I haven't put too much thought into it, but I haven't come up with the solution on how to do that just with sensors, unless we brought AI or machine learning in and had cameras to be able to do that. 51:23.660 --> 51:25.520 Oh, I have so many ideas right now. 51:25.520 --> 51:26.660 Go on, sorry. 51:26.720 --> 51:31.760 Come on, we need a flat surface and a couple levels and you know, you know. 51:31.760 --> 51:33.000 Sorry, go ahead. 51:34.980 --> 51:42.460 Then, so just standard, we can collect standard weather data as well. 51:44.780 --> 51:49.840 Probably we'd want to know lightning data as well. 51:49.840 --> 51:58.780 If there's a lot of lightning strikes in that area, we might not love to be in that area if there's a lot of lightning coming down in that area. 51:58.780 --> 52:01.720 So that's a condition. 52:02.800 --> 52:09.860 So we're going to see which are the most important items for us to have on this list as a final specification. 52:10.460 --> 52:11.980 Solar powered would be nice. 52:11.980 --> 52:18.300 So they can last as long as possible and we don't have to go out and change the batteries every week. 52:18.840 --> 52:22.900 If it could be continually charged, that would be ideal. 52:24.120 --> 52:28.260 So those are, I think, some of the more important things. 52:28.360 --> 52:47.560 And of course, collecting any kind of water data we can, like pH or salinity, temperature, turbidity, cameras under the water that can identify fish with machine learning would be really cool as well. 52:47.560 --> 52:48.640 Oh, interesting. 52:48.680 --> 52:49.560 Wow. 52:49.800 --> 52:53.520 So that's, so honestly, that's going to be VR, right? 52:53.520 --> 53:02.260 That is going to be, I mean, I don't, I don't think anyone's got a, I don't think anyone's got a massive database of fish signatures. 53:02.260 --> 53:04.700 I mean, maybe tuna, if you're lucky. 53:06.280 --> 53:08.360 Gosh, I don't, yeah, that's really interesting. 53:08.360 --> 53:14.380 I hadn't thought about that before, but yeah, like what does a fish look like and how is it not a plastic bag? 53:14.380 --> 53:17.060 And interesting, interesting. 53:17.060 --> 53:17.740 Okay. 53:17.740 --> 53:18.600 All right. 53:19.620 --> 53:26.460 So from a naval perspective, and you folks know me, like I don't have to talk. 53:26.460 --> 53:34.140 I will talk from this perspective because I think, because I think it's different, because I think it's complete contrast into what Grant's talking about. 53:34.140 --> 53:35.680 And I love what Grant's talking about. 53:35.680 --> 53:36.840 I think it's fascinating. 53:36.840 --> 53:37.820 It's amazing. 53:37.820 --> 53:39.360 It's useful for the future. 53:40.940 --> 53:45.180 But in contrast, right, like what are some other kinds of challenges? 53:45.180 --> 53:48.500 So Grant's talking about survival of a floater. 53:48.500 --> 53:50.000 He's talking about persistence. 53:50.000 --> 53:54.140 He's talking about integrity of the data long enough so you can fetch it back. 53:54.140 --> 54:08.660 And I think that all of those things also matter when it comes to things like how do, how does a Navy project power, or at least protect vessels that are going along in the sea? 54:08.660 --> 54:21.020 Like one of the real issues of play for Navy is, for all Navies, not just the US Navy, is how do we protect where so much of the world's commerce comes from? 54:21.020 --> 54:29.960 So for folks who don't know, right, all the items, probably the vast majority of the items that you have running around in your house come to you via a boat. 54:29.960 --> 54:31.660 They come via a ship. 54:31.660 --> 54:33.260 They float on the surface. 54:33.260 --> 54:41.600 And one of the things that Navies and Coast Guards are required to do is ensure the safe passage of these objects, right? 54:41.600 --> 54:46.240 And if we're all impatient Amazon consumers, then we want it now. 54:46.960 --> 54:50.540 And so the question is, you know, how do you prevent those kinds of delays? 54:50.540 --> 54:53.780 How do you ensure freedom of navigation, freedom of the sea? 54:53.780 --> 54:55.380 So it's a Navy question. 54:56.140 --> 55:06.420 For Navy, the biggest concerns are about following things. 55:06.780 --> 55:18.980 The biggest concerns for the Navy are which of these, we call them white, we call those white ships, white ships being ships that aren't out there with a military capacity. 55:18.980 --> 55:26.260 They're there to, you know, bring tourists around or they're there to move cargo from China to the US, right? 55:26.260 --> 55:27.600 This is white. 55:28.340 --> 55:32.640 So how do you tell the difference between white and other forces? 55:32.640 --> 55:48.180 How do you then, once you've identified these other elements that could be doing terrible things or might be trying to do terrible things, how do you follow them in a meaningful way without having to send out a ship and literally follow it, right? 55:48.300 --> 55:57.600 And so really the question for the floater's flimmer class for us is about locating something almost passively, right? 55:57.600 --> 56:04.860 From an ISR perspective, almost passively, just being able to sort of map who's who in the zoo and where are you heading this week? 56:04.860 --> 56:12.720 And honestly, so Gary Kessler is gonna talk to you folks actually in the next hour, I think, about hacking AIS. 56:12.720 --> 56:21.020 And AIS is the system by which all ships voluntarily share their data, their tracking data as they transit the seas. 56:21.020 --> 56:25.500 And there's a real reason to be concerned about that system. 56:25.500 --> 56:31.540 And so we'll worry about that security in the next session. 56:31.960 --> 56:35.960 Anyway, so we're gonna say goodbye because I think we're down to our last minute. 56:36.740 --> 56:38.280 I love you all. 56:39.200 --> 56:40.840 Talk to you all soon and I miss... 56:40.840 --> 56:42.880 Go ahead, Grant, say goodbye. 56:43.100 --> 56:44.240 Thank you, everyone. 56:44.240 --> 56:47.440 I look forward to seeing you tomorrow on my talk. 56:47.440 --> 56:49.660 I think it's at 10 o'clock in the morning. 56:50.520 --> 56:51.820 Thanks, everybody. 56:51.820 --> 56:52.620 Bye.