1 00:00:05,820 --> 00:00:11,190 So I'm often asked, why don't we have more artificial intelligence in the Air Force than we do today? 2 00:00:11,190 --> 00:00:13,950 Something I'm working very hard to change. 3 00:00:14,110 --> 00:00:18,490 Well, one is it's really hard to certify something that changes all the time. 4 00:00:18,490 --> 00:00:28,750 But what isn't well understood in the Pentagon, and I find through the country as a whole, is that artificial intelligence is very fragile in the face of an adversary. 5 00:00:28,750 --> 00:00:30,610 It's very easy to beat. 6 00:00:30,610 --> 00:00:43,130 And so we need to get into the game more and bring the DEFCON and the hacker community into our world and give them opportunities to start beating AI ahead of those opportunities being available commercially. 7 00:00:43,130 --> 00:00:47,510 So that's where I'd like to see us go, is into algorithmic defeat. 8 00:00:47,510 --> 00:00:50,670 Because that's the next generation of warfare. 9 00:00:50,670 --> 00:00:56,390 And the earlier we can determine how to make it safe and secure, the better off everyone's going to be. 10 00:00:57,150 --> 00:01:01,770 So I think you'll find that we're good listeners. 11 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:03,910 So we have ideas. 12 00:01:03,910 --> 00:01:08,010 We just talked about AI and potential issues with that. 13 00:01:08,010 --> 00:01:10,130 We're talking about satellites now. 14 00:01:10,130 --> 00:01:12,330 But we're curious what you think. 15 00:01:12,330 --> 00:01:24,630 What are things, whether design flaws we should be thinking about, which can be really portable, or other types of exploits that might not be on our radar. 16 00:01:24,630 --> 00:01:27,630 So we'd love to just hear your thoughts. 17 00:01:27,630 --> 00:01:29,110 We're going to listen. 18 00:01:29,950 --> 00:01:32,730 And tell us things we don't know. 19 00:01:32,730 --> 00:01:36,290 Or tell us about challenges which are really hard. 20 00:01:36,290 --> 00:01:40,790 Like, a year ago, hacking a satellite felt pretty hard. 21 00:01:40,790 --> 00:01:42,190 But we're there now. 22 00:01:42,190 --> 00:01:48,930 What is a really hard one that you're thinking about, that we can challenge ourselves for, for next year? 23 00:01:49,050 --> 00:01:52,070 Why did you pick Steve Carell for Space Force? 24 00:01:54,530 --> 00:01:59,650 Well, you... I mean, you have to love Steve Carell, right? 25 00:01:59,650 --> 00:02:02,110 I mean, I'm such a huge Office fan. 26 00:02:02,110 --> 00:02:06,450 And so, when that came out, I thought, you know, money just because of that. 27 00:02:06,570 --> 00:02:22,110 But, on the whole, when I get to talk Space Force, beyond the hype and, you know, the glitz that the public media often shine on it, it gets really simple to explain. 28 00:02:22,150 --> 00:02:32,370 That , you know, do you think that adversaries will try to take on the military in space, given we have a ton of communications and navigation satellites? 29 00:02:32,510 --> 00:02:38,110 Satellites of all kinds, whose data we pump to the systems we take into a fight. 30 00:02:38,110 --> 00:02:40,670 Everyone says, well, yeah, of course, no duh. 31 00:02:40,970 --> 00:02:45,990 Well, if we think adversaries are going to challenge us there, then we've got to be ready there. 32 00:02:45,990 --> 00:02:52,270 But fighting in space is going to be really different than fighting in the air, on the sea, or under it. 33 00:02:52,310 --> 00:02:59,250 You know, it's a domain that's governed almost entirely by physics in a way that makes it predictable. 34 00:02:59,330 --> 00:03:07,450 We know where satellites are going to be minute by minute, second by second, on forever, ad infinitum, unless we decide to move them. 35 00:03:07,470 --> 00:03:13,510 But moving satellites using that precious propellant, that's a big choice in space. 36 00:03:13,510 --> 00:03:16,710 Because there are no gas stations, no place to fill up. 37 00:03:16,710 --> 00:03:18,830 So it is a very different domain. 38 00:03:18,830 --> 00:03:28,470 And we're just here talking about low-Earth orbit constellations, those that are very near the Earth, that are moving around at 7 kilometers a second. 39 00:03:28,470 --> 00:03:35,710 But GPS satellites are much further out, in what are medium-altitude orbits. 40 00:03:35,710 --> 00:03:41,330 And satellites that do communication and detection are all the way out in geosynchronous orbit. 41 00:03:41,330 --> 00:03:45,030 And though they're moving really fast relative to the Earth, they're not. 42 00:03:45,030 --> 00:03:46,370 They're stationary overhead. 43 00:03:46,370 --> 00:03:53,330 Every one of these is a very different domain governed by apparently different physics. 44 00:03:53,390 --> 00:04:01,950 And that's why we've got men and women getting ready, who are thinking about warfare in space, and they've got a clean sheet of paper in their hands. 45 00:04:01,950 --> 00:04:06,050 How do we fight in this domain where things are very predictable? 46 00:04:06,150 --> 00:04:09,050 And you can guess what answers are coming to the forefront. 47 00:04:09,050 --> 00:04:11,230 We're going to have to rely on autonomy. 48 00:04:11,270 --> 00:04:16,950 And that means the software that we put is going to be so important to whether we win or lose. 49 00:04:17,030 --> 00:04:18,690 But then that brings you in. 50 00:04:18,750 --> 00:04:26,470 If our software is going to be the cutting edge, and the autonomy it runs on is going to be how we win, then how do we make it secure? 51 00:04:27,210 --> 00:04:34,770 So I think we went through this period where, at least we as a society, didn't talk a lot about space. 52 00:04:34,770 --> 00:04:39,330 And I'm happy to see that change. 53 00:04:39,330 --> 00:04:43,970 Will talked about all the critical things about space. 54 00:04:43,970 --> 00:04:47,030 Timing, ATMs, GPS, all of these different things. 55 00:04:47,030 --> 00:04:48,890 And that is super critical. 56 00:04:48,930 --> 00:04:59,810 But I guess I bring out my inner kid now, where a couple months ago I sat down, I have three little kids, and we watched a SpaceX launch. 57 00:04:59,810 --> 00:05:05,590 And there was an excitement there that I feel it's been a long time. 58 00:05:07,230 --> 00:05:10,390 It's been missing from society for a bit. 59 00:05:10,390 --> 00:05:14,090 There's something aspirational, inspirational about it. 60 00:05:14,090 --> 00:05:25,710 And seeing the launch, seeing the landing, talking about space, thinking about the importance of it, and all the critical things that it does, it excites me for the future. 61 00:05:26,350 --> 00:05:29,290 So I'm excited that we're talking about space. 62 00:05:29,290 --> 00:05:31,850 I still would like to go to space. 63 00:05:31,850 --> 00:05:37,070 I don't think, Will, you've gotten your transporter done. 64 00:05:37,210 --> 00:05:45,550 But with all that being said, I'm really also, until you actually take me to space, I look forward to helping protect space. 65 00:05:45,990 --> 00:05:47,130 Sounds good, Brett. 66 00:05:47,130 --> 00:05:54,190 And aside from just watching SpaceX, just the other day we watched Perseverance and Ingenuity head up. 67 00:05:54,190 --> 00:05:58,190 And so we're really, really excited about the enthusiasm in space. 68 00:05:58,190 --> 00:06:04,330 And Space Force gets to provide most of the rocketry that the entire government and commercial industry uses. 69 00:06:04,330 --> 00:06:11,390 So it's going to be a little while until we beam you to space, but we've got some excellent works and rockets that can help push you there. 70 00:06:11,550 --> 00:06:15,090 Do you think I could do that training thing in a couple weeks? 71 00:06:15,530 --> 00:06:16,670 Just bang it out? 72 00:06:16,770 --> 00:06:20,970 Let's talk about that next time on Between Two Nerds. 73 00:06:20,970 --> 00:06:22,350 Thanks for coming. 74 00:06:23,190 --> 00:06:24,150 Okay. 75 00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:44,000 So we're really easy. 76 00:06:44,420 --> 00:06:46,040 We're on the Twitters. 77 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:47,900 At least I'm on the Twitters. 78 00:06:47,900 --> 00:06:48,740 Are you on the Twitters? 79 00:06:48,740 --> 00:06:53,800 I promised Brett that for DEFCON, I would send out my first tweet. 80 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,900 So I'm really looking forward to seeing Will on the Twitters. 81 00:06:56,900 --> 00:07:03,140 Will and I will be in the VRs during DEFCON. 82 00:07:03,140 --> 00:07:04,680 You can find us there. 83 00:07:04,860 --> 00:07:06,380 We'll be on Twitch. 84 00:07:06,380 --> 00:07:08,040 We'll be all over. 85 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,000 And we'll make sure that we leave a link on our HackASAT site. 86 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:24,000 If you are interested in finding out more about participating in future hacking events with the Air Force or DDS, we will leave a place for you to find us, for us to contact you. 87 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:26,440 And we also want to hear your suggestions. 88 00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:32,720 And when COVID is done, if you're in D.C., come to the Pentagon. 89 00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:34,620 We'd love to hear your ideas. 90 00:07:43,410 --> 00:07:46,210 So can zombies swim? 91 00:07:46,990 --> 00:07:48,570 I don't know, Brett. 92 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:55,470 I think it probably depends on what movie we're in and whether they knew how to swim before they were zombified. 93 00:07:55,650 --> 00:08:01,750 So I intentionally moved to an island where part of my intent was being zombie safe. 94 00:08:01,750 --> 00:08:03,070 How deep's the water? 95 00:08:03,070 --> 00:08:04,310 Pretty deep. 96 00:08:04,310 --> 00:08:06,030 Did you see World War Z? 97 00:08:06,030 --> 00:08:06,710 I did. 98 00:08:06,710 --> 00:08:08,030 Is it that deep? 99 00:08:09,170 --> 00:08:11,210 It might not be deep enough. 100 00:08:11,210 --> 00:08:12,890 You might need a better island. 101 00:08:13,530 --> 00:08:14,310 Okay.