[00:05.820 --> 00:11.190]  So I'm often asked, why don't we have more artificial intelligence in the Air Force than we do today?
[00:11.190 --> 00:13.950]  Something I'm working very hard to change.
[00:14.110 --> 00:18.490]  Well, one is it's really hard to certify something that changes all the time.
[00:18.490 --> 00:23.790]  But what isn't well understood in the Pentagon, and I find through the country as a whole,
[00:23.790 --> 00:28.750]  is that artificial intelligence is very fragile in the face of an adversary.
[00:28.750 --> 00:30.610]  It's very easy to beat.
[00:30.610 --> 00:36.890]  And so we need to get into the game more and bring the DEFCON and the hacker community into our world
[00:36.890 --> 00:43.130]  and give them opportunities to start beating AI ahead of those opportunities being available commercially.
[00:43.130 --> 00:47.510]  So that's where I'd like to see us go, is into algorithmic defeat.
[00:47.510 --> 00:50.670]  Because that's the next generation of warfare.
[00:50.670 --> 00:56.390]  And the earlier we can determine how to make it safe and secure, the better off everyone's going to be.
[00:57.150 --> 01:01.770]  So I think you'll find that we're good listeners.
[01:01.890 --> 01:08.010]  So we have ideas. We just talked about AI and potential issues with that.
[01:08.010 --> 01:10.130]  We're talking about satellites now.
[01:10.130 --> 01:12.330]  But we're curious what you think.
[01:12.330 --> 01:19.970]  What are things, whether design flaws we should be thinking about, which can be really portable,
[01:19.970 --> 01:24.630]  or other types of exploits that might not be on our radar.
[01:24.630 --> 01:27.630]  So we'd love to just hear your thoughts.
[01:27.630 --> 01:29.110]  We're going to listen.
[01:29.950 --> 01:32.730]  And tell us things we don't know.
[01:32.730 --> 01:36.290]  Or tell us about challenges which are really hard.
[01:36.290 --> 01:40.790]  Like, a year ago, hacking a satellite felt pretty hard.
[01:40.790 --> 01:42.190]  But we're there now.
[01:42.190 --> 01:48.930]  What is a really hard one that you're thinking about, that we can challenge ourselves for, for next year?
[01:49.050 --> 01:52.070]  Why did you pick Steve Carell for Space Force?
[01:54.530 --> 01:59.650]  Well, you... I mean, you have to love Steve Carell, right?
[01:59.650 --> 02:02.110]  I mean, I'm such a huge Office fan.
[02:02.110 --> 02:06.450]  And so, when that came out, I thought, you know, money just because of that.
[02:06.570 --> 02:10.210]  But, on the whole, when I get to talk Space Force,
[02:10.210 --> 02:19.470]  beyond the hype and, you know, the glitz that the public media often shine on it,
[02:19.470 --> 02:22.110]  it gets really simple to explain.
[02:22.150 --> 02:26.890]  That, you know, do you think that adversaries will try to take on the military in space,
[02:26.890 --> 02:32.370]  given we have a ton of communications and navigation satellites?
[02:32.510 --> 02:38.110]  Satellites of all kinds, whose data we pump to the systems we take into a fight.
[02:38.110 --> 02:40.670]  Everyone says, well, yeah, of course, no duh.
[02:40.970 --> 02:45.990]  Well, if we think adversaries are going to challenge us there, then we've got to be ready there.
[02:45.990 --> 02:52.270]  But fighting in space is going to be really different than fighting in the air, on the sea, or under it.
[02:52.310 --> 02:59.250]  You know, it's a domain that's governed almost entirely by physics in a way that makes it predictable.
[02:59.330 --> 03:05.070]  We know where satellites are going to be minute by minute, second by second, on forever, ad infinitum,
[03:05.070 --> 03:07.450]  unless we decide to move them.
[03:07.470 --> 03:13.510]  But moving satellites using that precious propellant, that's a big choice in space.
[03:13.510 --> 03:16.710]  Because there are no gas stations, no place to fill up.
[03:16.710 --> 03:18.830]  So it is a very different domain.
[03:18.830 --> 03:24.810]  And we're just here talking about low-Earth orbit constellations, those that are very near the Earth,
[03:24.810 --> 03:28.470]  that are moving around at 7 kilometers a second.
[03:28.470 --> 03:35.710]  But GPS satellites are much further out, in what are medium-altitude orbits.
[03:35.710 --> 03:41.330]  And satellites that do communication and detection are all the way out in geosynchronous orbit.
[03:41.330 --> 03:45.030]  And though they're moving really fast relative to the Earth, they're not.
[03:45.030 --> 03:46.370]  They're stationary overhead.
[03:46.370 --> 03:53.330]  Every one of these is a very different domain governed by apparently different physics.
[03:53.390 --> 03:58.690]  And that's why we've got men and women getting ready, who are thinking about warfare in space,
[03:58.690 --> 04:01.950]  and they've got a clean sheet of paper in their hands.
[04:01.950 --> 04:06.050]  How do we fight in this domain where things are very predictable?
[04:06.150 --> 04:09.050]  And you can guess what answers are coming to the forefront.
[04:09.050 --> 04:11.230]  We're going to have to rely on autonomy.
[04:11.270 --> 04:16.950]  And that means the software that we put is going to be so important to whether we win or lose.
[04:17.030 --> 04:18.690]  But then that brings you in.
[04:18.750 --> 04:24.890]  If our software is going to be the cutting edge, and the autonomy it runs on is going to be how we win,
[04:24.890 --> 04:26.470]  then how do we make it secure?
[04:27.210 --> 04:34.770]  So I think we went through this period where, at least we as a society, didn't talk a lot about space.
[04:34.770 --> 04:39.330]  And I'm happy to see that change.
[04:39.330 --> 04:43.970]  Will talked about all the critical things about space.
[04:43.970 --> 04:47.030]  Timing, ATMs, GPS, all of these different things.
[04:47.030 --> 04:48.890]  And that is super critical.
[04:48.930 --> 04:55.750]  But I guess I bring out my inner kid now, where a couple months ago I sat down,
[04:55.750 --> 04:59.810]  I have three little kids, and we watched a SpaceX launch.
[04:59.810 --> 05:05.590]  And there was an excitement there that I feel it's been a long time.
[05:07.230 --> 05:10.390]  It's been missing from society for a bit.
[05:10.390 --> 05:14.090]  There's something aspirational, inspirational about it.
[05:14.090 --> 05:20.450]  And seeing the launch, seeing the landing, talking about space, thinking about the importance of it,
[05:20.450 --> 05:25.710]  and all the critical things that it does, it excites me for the future.
[05:26.350 --> 05:29.290]  So I'm excited that we're talking about space.
[05:29.290 --> 05:31.850]  I still would like to go to space.
[05:31.850 --> 05:37.070]  I don't think, Will, you've gotten your transporter done.
[05:37.210 --> 05:45.550]  But with all that being said, I'm really also, until you actually take me to space, I look forward to helping protect space.
[05:45.990 --> 05:47.130]  Sounds good, Brett.
[05:47.130 --> 05:54.190]  And aside from just watching SpaceX, just the other day we watched Perseverance and Ingenuity head up.
[05:54.190 --> 05:58.190]  And so we're really, really excited about the enthusiasm in space.
[05:58.190 --> 06:04.330]  And Space Force gets to provide most of the rocketry that the entire government and commercial industry uses.
[06:04.330 --> 06:07.170]  So it's going to be a little while until we beam you to space,
[06:07.170 --> 06:11.390]  but we've got some excellent works and rockets that can help push you there.
[06:11.550 --> 06:15.090]  Do you think I could do that training thing in a couple weeks?
[06:15.530 --> 06:16.670]  Just bang it out?
[06:16.770 --> 06:20.970]  Let's talk about that next time on Between Two Nerds.
[06:20.970 --> 06:22.350]  Thanks for coming.
[06:23.190 --> 06:24.150]  Okay.
[06:41.820 --> 06:48.740]  So we're really easy. We're on the Twitters. At least I'm on the Twitters. Are you on the Twitters?
[06:48.740 --> 06:53.800]  I promised Brett that for DEFCON, I would send out my first tweet.
[06:53.800 --> 06:56.900]  So I'm really looking forward to seeing Will on the Twitters.
[06:56.900 --> 07:08.040]  Will and I will be in the VRs during DEFCON. You can find us there. We'll be on Twitch. We'll be all over.
[07:08.040 --> 07:12.000]  And we'll make sure that we leave a link on our HackASAT site.
[07:12.000 --> 07:19.900]  If you are interested in finding out more about participating in future hacking events with the Air Force or DDS,
[07:19.900 --> 07:24.000]  we will leave a place for you to find us, for us to contact you.
[07:24.000 --> 07:26.440]  And we also want to hear your suggestions.
[07:26.440 --> 07:34.620]  And when COVID is done, if you're in D.C., come to the Pentagon. We'd love to hear your ideas.
[07:43.410 --> 07:46.210]  So can zombies swim?
[07:46.990 --> 07:55.470]  I don't know, Brett. I think it probably depends on what movie we're in and whether they knew how to swim before they were zombified.
[07:55.650 --> 08:01.750]  So I intentionally moved to an island where part of my intent was being zombie safe.
[08:01.750 --> 08:03.070]  How deep's the water?
[08:03.070 --> 08:04.310]  Pretty deep.
[08:04.310 --> 08:06.030]  Did you see World War Z?
[08:06.030 --> 08:06.710]  I did.
[08:06.710 --> 08:08.030]  Is it that deep?
[08:09.170 --> 08:11.210]  It might not be deep enough.
[08:11.210 --> 08:12.890]  You might need a better island.
[08:13.530 --> 08:14.310]  Okay.