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114290	120410	Good morning, everyone. We're about to start a panel discussion on what makes a good ham
120410	127670	radio operator. Subtitle also, what are the weird pieces of lingo we use? Ham operators
127670	134350	seem to love, love, love using a lot of really random speech and text patterns that have
134350	138750	historical reasons for being used but don't really make sense in a lot of context today.
139490	152960	So let's just go around. I am Eric, A-I-0-J. I'm Justin, K-E-A-M-Y-F. I'm Grant, W-4-K-E-K.
152960	158400	Sorry, I don't have the video yet. Good morning, good afternoon. I'm Richard, Victor Alpha
158400	163140	Seven Original Gangster or November Three Romeo Tango Hotel.
165940	172120	Great, great. So let's just, you know, start going around and, you know, sort of in a nutshell,
172120	175880	you know, what do you think of when you think of like what's being a good ham radio operator?
176320	177840	Rich, do you want to take it off?
178620	188980	Sure. For me, I think I've been in this hobby 20 plus years now. I think it's an overarching
190000	199100	understanding of being polite to other operators. Far too often, if you spend a lot of time on HF,
199100	206010	very specific to frequency, you'll hear a lot of really, really inappropriate behavior by hams.
206750	214180	Some of them have a lot of very expensive gear, pumping out a lot of very high power.
214180	219960	They love talking, looking over people, screaming at you. You know what, just be polite and understand
219960	225560	that you're talking to people literally all over the world. You're talking to people who may not
225560	234700	be as skilled as you are, may not be as well resourced as you are. And understand that we are
234700	241580	still, after being in this hobby for a long, a brotherhood, a sisterhood. And I think we need
241580	245560	to spend a lot more time treating other hams like the brothers and sisters they are.
247860	254420	Yeah, that's a great answer. One of the things that probably annoys me the most about bad,
254420	260500	bad operation is just the assumed, oh, well, I've been in this for a while. I know a lot,
260500	265680	or I've spent a lot of money, or it's even worse. So obviously, I'm the expert in everything I say
265680	271000	is 100% right. And I mean, there's just a lot in this hobby. I mean, it changes every day.
271000	275060	As we've seen in the talks this weekend, there's always new things to explore,
275060	279400	there's always new things to learn. And just like I think a lot of hobbies, you get people that have
279400	283100	been in it for a while and assume that they've learned everything and they're the master and
283100	287580	everyone should listen to them. And obviously, that's not very welcoming to new hams for sure.
290540	295380	Justin, do you want to chime in? Yeah, so one thing I would say is always kind of
295380	300740	the term always out there for hammering is kind of the good practices. I'm kind of coming from
300740	305120	the view of the newer ham. I'm still quite early, although I just got my extra. I've only been on
305120	310200	the air since March. But one important thing that I always try to think of is think of those who are
310200	315300	listening, who may not even be able to broadcast back because you'll have your people on shortwave
315300	320060	listening, or especially in more local communications on repeaters. Many of them have
320060	326040	something like echo link or broadcastify in place for your standard person can listen in. So you're
326040	330860	setting that example. If they hear people talking about maybe things that might put
330860	336780	them off from amateur radio, then it might kind of taint their view of it. And as well as making
336780	342280	sure everyone else has their kind of time to talk. Because when it comes to amateur radio,
342280	347220	you kind of got to control yourself, especially when there's a situation not like a network.
355740	361400	Making sure you can come back to yourself, but allow other people to talk as well.
368940	372180	It looks like we lost just for a minute. He's coming back.
373300	374020	Possibly.
374540	376900	One thing I'll say also while we wait for him to pop on is that...
419570	422670	All right. All right. Sorry about that. The Discord decided to
422670	427870	apparently restart and apply an update right now. So that's awesome. Yay, automatic updates.
428190	432050	I think we're back on the air. Do you want to continue? Just Esther, who were you talking about,
432050	432550	Rich?
435350	441610	Yeah, what I was saying is that ham radio has really taken off as far as the different things
441610	447950	you can do with ham radio just in the last five years alone. The abundance of much more affordable
447950	458390	ham radio gear coupled with the proliferation of single computing has really opened up a ton of
458390	464170	new things that hams can do. And I think what we have to be careful of as ham hams as we
464170	468730	get older is to not get into the trap of the people before us who say, oh, that's not ham
468730	474010	radio. No, that's ham radio. No, that's not ham radio. You know, how many times have you heard
474010	479050	in the past 20 years of hams saying, well, if you don't know more, Sergeant, you're not a real ham.
482970	489770	Or spark gap traders are the only real ham radio. No, no. The only way ham radio is going to
489770	492790	survive is as a hobby. The only way ham radio is going to survive and bring more people into
492790	501050	it is to embrace all these new things that are going to be only partially ham radio related,
501050	504550	but do things like connect to the internet. That's the only way we're going to attract
504550	508470	new people to this hobby. So just keep an open mind when you see something new. And the first
508470	513630	thing in your mind is, well, that's not ham radio at all. Just take a second and think about it.
515110	518470	Yeah, of course, I see a lot of that with all the internet radio and things like that.
518470	522210	I'm like, well, it's not, it's not radio. It's not radio. I was like, well, I mean, it's all,
522210	528390	you know, it's all fine. Either the hobby can expand and reach into new areas and stuff like
528390	536930	that. Let's change topics a little bit. You know, what's probably the, maybe we'll go to you,
536930	540830	Justin, as a newer ham. You know, what did you find the most confusing in terms of like, you
540830	545810	know, ham lingo, as you know, you started getting the hobby and everyone's immediately assumed,
545810	550750	you know, every piece of, you know, our lingo? Yeah, definitely. What I would say there is
550750	555570	when I got into it, those cue codes, that's always where everyone likes to start off. You're
555570	560950	saying everyone's like QSY, QSL. Those, of course, meaning if you're going to change frequency and
560950	567370	acknowledging a receipt in that order. But one thing I would say is, once you start listening
567370	572110	to them, it's very easy to pick up on it. Once you kind of hear what they're saying, and then
572110	577690	you can either Google it real quickly, or you can kind of just think about what they're saying. So
577690	582090	if they say QSY and they see a frequency, they're probably switching over there. And as well,
582090	586630	there's kind of your other terms that people might say, especially if you're a technician
586630	591430	coming in and you're on a repeater, a lot of people might take a bite or break. That just
591430	597350	means that they are letting the repeater reset because many of them have those talkout timers.
597670	601530	That's one thing I kind of was curious what they're meaning there. And then I kind of
601530	604230	realized they're just letting that repeater reset.
606510	612890	Yeah, I think that's also some great, good operating tips, too, on repeaters and more or
612890	617570	less on 2Meter and VHF and up. But if you're using a repeater, you definitely do not want to call
617570	623350	CQ to look for contacts. It's sort of common. It's a weird thing, but we just don't do that,
623350	628770	right? Instead, we say, oh, hey, this is K3K monitoring this repeater. And more than often,
628770	633830	it'll come back and talk to you, but it's just not sort of accepted to just go on to the repeater
633830	640810	and say, hey, K3K calling CQ on this repeater. And I don't really exactly know why we chose to
640810	645290	do that, but that is just what we do, right? And there are a lot of just sort of gotchas.
645290	650310	And I think it's important as experienced TAMs, if that happens, it's fine. I say,
650310	654230	oh, hey, by the way, you should probably not call CQ. You should call monitoring
654930	658090	instead of being like, hey, that's not how you do it or just being a jerk about it,
658090	663190	which unfortunately, you can see a lot. Yeah. And I'll add on to that. One thing,
663190	670310	Dave Kessler, K-E-0-O-G, he's one of the bigger YouTubers, ham radio YouTubers. Even he covered
670310	676250	that topic. And on a repeater, sometimes calling CQ might be good for like a last resort because
676250	681130	most likely if you do it, you will get that ham that tells you not to do it. But if you haven't
681130	685750	made a contact and it's your first time on the air, then you just made your first contact.
686730	691950	Although it might be for someone who's telling you not to call CQ. I guess technically a contact
691950	697290	is still a contact and that's how you can get a conversation going. And he's actually been one of
697290	702490	the people who wrote the book on ham radio. He's one of the licensed or the authors for the license
702490	712480	manuals for the ARRL. Yeah, very, very cool. And Saito, is your audio working? Do you want to jump
712480	719320	in? Yeah, I did want to say, I believe it comes to the fact when you're calling CQ, you're on a
719320	722240	frequency, you're not sure who's listening. Meanwhile, on the repeater, you can assume
722240	726000	there's people listening on that frequency. So I feel like that's why you would call CQ
726000	736090	on listening frequency versus on a repeater. Yeah, that's a great point.
736090	739630	Yeah, I think probably the most sort of frustrating thing, like the cue codes,
739630	742670	you know, they make sense. I mean, a lot of the sort of terminology that's used
742670	748770	in ham radio originates from, you know, Morse code CW usage, you know, where, you know, you're
748770	752450	trying to literally save time and save the amount of time as you're tapping your finger, of course,
752450	757390	back in the day. You know, so I mean, I think there's a good reason for all those abbreviations.
757390	762290	And of course, it's, you know, now in our modern tech society, I think there's still value in that.
762650	768190	But one of the ones that really my personal pet peeve is when people type hi hi instead of ha ha,
768190	772630	which in Morse code is much, much quicker. I hate that so much. Yeah,
772630	775590	in Morse code is much quicker to type an I than it is an A.
775590	780030	Totally understandable. On a keyboard, it is literally the same word count.
782450	787750	Yeah, oh man, it just annoys me to no end. It's like, just just stop. You don't,
787750	791170	you don't look any more important. I don't know what it, you know.
794330	798510	Now, what's some other sort of weird lingo that people might not be familiar with?
807270	812350	Struggling to think. I do think there's some terms that are, you know, not misintentioned,
812350	818950	but probably outdated. You know, XYL was sort of a three letter code that, you know, historically
818950	824330	has meant, you know, young lady, as in, like, typically the ham operator's spouse. And I don't
824330	830130	think there's ill intention in it, but it's just a little outdated today, you know. And I personally
830130	835950	just kind of cringe a little when I hear that. So Mr. Radar had a question. What's the what's
835950	842510	internet lingo-gations on the air? LOL or BRB? Look, you know what? This is my opinion,
842510	849750	and I'm sure everybody has a different opinion. But I don't hate it at all, because it's become
849750	857350	part of general language now. And you see everywhere, not just on the internet anymore.
857590	865890	There are definitely going to be some older old hams who hate it because it's new. But you know
865890	873490	what? Language over time. I don't have any problems. Anybody say LOL or BRB or things like that
873490	882330	in ham radio, because it's, it's, it's, it's extended in real life now. So go for it. The
882330	887730	more and more you use regular language, which in ham radio, the more realized it'll become.
887730	891710	If someone gives you grief over things like that, you know what? It's probably not even worth your
891710	900930	time to engage with them. Just keep being you. Don't, don't let some ham who's been doing, doing
900930	907230	this for years, and the skin there, that they're old, away from, from, from bullying you. Because
907230	911470	you see a lot of that in radio, especially with some of the older people. They do behave like
911470	919950	bullies, because they've been stuck in there for such a long time. And I hope is that other,
919950	927910	and say, you know what? Time changed, either. I want to see more hams interject into conversations
927910	932550	like that, saying, look, you know what? It's time for you to just, you know, lighten up a little
932550	937910	bit. We could use a little bit more of this hobby. Yeah, I think it's a fair point. It's a bit of a,
937910	942130	I think almost a loaded question, because that is very much more of a societal question, right?
942130	947850	Some people are okay using things like LOL and BRB just in person, or, you know, even, you know,
948050	952570	a video conference chat. And some people are like, no, that's not proper English. And I don't think
952570	958430	that's ever going to be solved. That's probably not hobby unique. But I tend to agree with Rich's,
958430	963270	you know, comments like, yeah, it's totally fine. I mean, it's all about your audience and their
963270	968430	comfort level and your comfort level with them, you know. Certainly, if you're on a repeater,
968430	971450	and it's a bunch of people, you know, I think it's, you know, the level of comfort of in
971450	977130	conversation in general is much different than if you're just, you know, making conversation with,
977550	982930	2000 miles away. I would, the only thing I'd add to that is I would definitely caution about that
982930	989230	if you're doing anything, long distance, also known as DX, another piece of lingo there,
989230	993430	distance, just because, you know, if English is not their primary language, sometimes,
993430	996810	you know, those acronyms and things like that can be confusing, you know, if they're not used to
996810	1005550	that. So that's my point. Oh, new challengers appeared. Well, welcome, Baloo. I don't know
1005550	1013740	if we have audio from you yet. We do have a question in chat about if there's a trick to
1013740	1020220	memorizing cue codes. Yeah, I don't think there's, you know, any real trick. There's really probably
1020220	1024700	only a handful that get used a lot. I mean, if you go online, you find like list of cue codes
1024700	1030020	or ham radio cue codes, you'll see like, I don't know, like 20, 30 of them. But there's probably
1030020	1036540	only like, I don't know, five or six that get used commonly, you know, like, you know, in some only
1036540	1041360	really in like contests and stuff. Like, you generally don't hear QRZ being called a lot and
1041360	1046760	except if like you're working a pile up or something like that in a contest. QTH is probably
1046760	1052880	the one I hear the most, which is me shorthand for location, you know, it'd be, you know, if you're
1052880	1057420	in the old CB days, it'd be, you know, what's your 20? I don't do that on the handbands, by the way,
1057420	1064820	that will definitely anger people using any of the CB lingo. So I would not I recommend not using any
1064820	1069160	10 codes, you know, no 10 for a good buddy or anything like that, or that'll definitely rile up
1069160	1077040	the old hams. Yeah, I'll add on to that, especially how you said not using 10 codes, especially once
1077040	1083220	you get into the more, I guess you could say, emergency comms with stuff like Skywarn. If
1083220	1089220	you're in a spotter group, and they're taking check-ins for spotters, it's pretty important,
1089220	1094100	especially in those scenarios, to make sure you're using the kind of set and stone phonetics.
1094100	1098280	Everyone kind of has their funner version of phonetics that they'll usually have for their
1098280	1103100	call sign. I actually don't have one for, I haven't thought of one for me yet. But in those
1103100	1107240	more serious scenarios, it's much more important to kind of listen to what the net control station
1107240	1113020	is saying, and follow their instructions, because they're expecting to hear what they have asked for.
1113020	1118220	If they can get more check-ins from spotters, right when a condition might change to yellow,
1118220	1124000	then it allows for more efficient communications. And that's where it's
1124000	1128440	more important to make sure you're following those good practices, like proper phonetics.
1130380	1134120	Yeah, definitely. I think more important than memorizing any cue codes or anything like that,
1134120	1139420	yeah, knowing the NATO alphabet is way more useful. And yeah, I do expand on that in any
1139420	1144980	sort of, you know, more formal net, which is just a fancy word for on-air meeting.
1145580	1150080	Yeah, definitely short and to the point is better. You know, a lot of times people try to ramble on,
1150080	1153580	if it is like a spotter net, you know, that's like, they just need the information,
1153580	1157680	and they want to get out and go on, you know, do their job, right? So,
1157680	1162820	now, obviously, if it's a, you know, weekly club meeting on air, and it's just sort of more of a,
1162820	1168100	you know, weird, or just a normal sort of conversation, also in ham parlance called
1168240	1173580	a rag-chew, which is a term I personally don't like. But, you know, rag-chew just means to have
1173720	1177300	a casual conversation. It's another term you'll see.
1179300	1188020	It's always great when you see a ham on the radio going like, okay, this is tangerine, tomato,
1188020	1192120	pineapple, Z, H-I.
1192260	1194640	Yeah, M as in Mancy jumps to mind.
1194960	1196500	Learn the phonetic alphabet.
1199680	1205480	Oh, here's a good question in the chat. Do you guys have any stories of people actively trolling
1205480	1207020	the ham spectrum?
1208520	1209800	I have one.
1210600	1211920	How do I?
1213640	1214480	Yeah, go ahead.
1216780	1224640	Yeah, I know. I was once looking at SCR of 20 Meter Band, and I hear a station in the data
1224640	1229920	portion speaking. So, it's like, I go there and some Russian station, I recorded, some of my
1229920	1234640	friend recorded it, but it was like this weird Russian saying thing, bunch of stuff, bunch of
1234640	1239920	stuff. And a bunch of Russians later got on and tried to speak over this person. So, it was pretty
1239920	1242940	interesting seeing that happen.
1250520	1259900	About 15, 18 years ago, yes, there was a guy who was not licensed and initially put up a big
1259900	1266420	vertical, much like the one you have in the background of your room there, in downtown
1266420	1275540	Toronto, and was broadcasting on FRS1 at 100 watts, and would bank at the entire city in FRS1
1275540	1280560	traffic where ham and hams would just take over FRS1. And eventually, he moved over to 46.552
1280560	1285860	and did the same thing there. But he would go back and forth, he would just stomp over anybody
1285860	1294780	else he'd hear talking. And I'm not saying I was involved, but a few hams after months of this got
1294780	1302380	tired of it, triangulated his position, and may have stuck a piece staple into his coax one night
1302380	1308480	at two in the morning, climbing his tower. That's just what I heard. And I do know that
1308480	1313060	he came back the next day and fried his face, so he never ever did again.
1314420	1320480	I'm not sure, it might be ruining the reputation of the friendly Canadian there, but you know.
1321160	1323080	That's just a story I heard.
1324080	1328840	Yeah, I mean, I think there are some... if you look online, there are definitely some well-known
1328840	1334100	people that have caused interference in the ham bans. Some guy, I think out of New York or
1334100	1340020	something, had a 1.5 kilowatt amp and a Yagi, and would just routinely trash over the bans.
1340580	1345120	You know, the high-profile ones like that, the FCC in the U.S. does go after them, and they will
1345120	1353060	issue you very, very large fines. They don't mess around. If you've pissed off enough people,
1353060	1357800	the government's getting involved. Yeah, it usually doesn't end well. And most of the time,
1357800	1360120	they're not even hams, but sometimes they are.
1362120	1368380	That's a great point, Eric. Go online and search for FCC Interference Action Ham Radio or Hampshire
1368380	1377800	Radio. Just read some of the recaps that the FCC published, some of the behaving hams and some
1377800	1382280	things they've done. And you'll just read crazy stories about some of the stuff these people have
1382280	1387980	done, including some pretty crazy fines. I've seen fines, $20,000, $30,000 type fines, confiscation
1387980	1396940	of it. So like you said, if you piss off enough people for enough time, the FCC will come looking.
1396940	1401220	It's the same thing in Canada. History Canada will eventually come and find you if you cause
1401220	1407560	enough mischief out there on the airwaves. Yeah, I don't know if I'd want the Royal
1407560	1411240	Canadian Mounted Police coming at me asking for my radio. It seems like it'd be bad.
1412280	1418600	On the other side of malicious intent, there's a lot of people, including businesses,
1418600	1423000	that are just ignorant. They have no idea. They buy this bow thing, they turn it on.
1423100	1430200	Hey, housekeeping gets a radio, front desk gets a radio. We've had a local hotel, they were using,
1430200	1435720	they were tromping on our repeater for two or three months. And we didn't realize it because
1435720	1441180	we have a tone. But once you go in reverse, it's like, hey, these guys are on our input frequency.
1441180	1448160	So us as a group, we were like, hey, we didn't get mad. We were wanting to educate these people.
1448160	1455500	So the whole club finally found out who it was. And club president went down and talked to him
1455500	1463640	and said, hey, we understand you got some new radios. You are interfering with our communications.
1464560	1468280	I will help you program your radios so you're not breaking law.
1468280	1474040	And I think that is a great example of positive ham culture.
1475820	1480820	Yeah, how many times have you had people going absolutely hog-miled over people doing
1480820	1487120	something like that. And instead, just be calm, be gracious, just walk them through
1487120	1490780	what they're doing. Because all these people want to talk. They don't know anything else,
1490780	1493920	but other than the fact they just want to communicate with each other. So you would
1493920	1497540	use the time, use your knowledge, use your experience to be nice to other people.
1499020	1504380	New friends. And you never know, you know, like a hotel, if you could come back six months later
1504380	1508440	and say, hey, do you think maybe we could put an antenna on the roof there for something?
1508500	1516700	Yeah, they may say, it's easier to make friends than it is to make enemies. So why not just use
1516700	1520840	your knowledge and try and help some people understand what they're doing and why they
1520840	1521980	do it differently.
1524220	1525020	Definitely.
1527800	1531440	Yeah, and it's definitely complicated, I think, by the fact that they're... I mean,
1531440	1536300	the FCC has actually gone after some companies for marketing radios as like, yep, you don't
1536300	1541120	need a license, just bubble pack radio, open this up and transmit. And the radios are not
1541120	1545220	actually designed for that. And they were operating in bands that needed licensing,
1545220	1549680	whether it's business band or, you know, on handbands, things like that. So, you know,
1549680	1554360	the government has gone after those as well, which is good. But it certainly doesn't help,
1554360	1557820	right? And just complicates it. And, you know, people, you know, just, you know,
1557820	1561460	novices who don't have a lot of experience with Zoom, oh, well, the more power, the better,
1561460	1564740	right? That's all that matters, right? I just need the most powerful radio, I'll put as much
1564740	1570900	power in the air as I can. And really, that's not the solution. I mean, you know, as you start to
1570900	1574660	learn more, like adding power is probably like the least effective amount of thing you can do.
1574660	1579070	It's much more about improving your antenna system and, you know, reducing noise, all that,
1579070	1583550	that stuff far more effective than just like dumping more power into the problem.
1584170	1588110	And so you do catch a lot of interference and stuff like that. And you can certainly catch,
1588110	1592690	you know, electronics these days have a lot of noisy components. So, you know, if you're in a
1592690	1596830	dense area, it's it can be very common, you know, to have like, oh, you're in something your
1596830	1601330	neighbors, you know, if they still have a plasma TV, yeah, that's gonna be cause lots of interference.
1601330	1606590	So it's good to be friendly about that sort of stuff. And not just immediately go and put up
1606590	1611130	200 foot tower without, you know, talking to your neighbors first, just because the first thing
1611130	1613770	they're going to do is say, oh, well, this is causing problems, and I don't want to help you
1613770	1619670	now. Right. So, you know, and now you just just as be as friendly as possible, I think is super
1619670	1628790	important. Adding more power is a great way to blow things up. Yes, yes. There's a question about
1629530	1633730	looking for resources for getting into DMR. I'm definitely not the person to answer that.
1633730	1646090	I guess I can. DMR is one of those things that might be really hard to
1647070	1651550	understand without just being able to go back and forth and ask your questions.
1651550	1657870	I would join up with a group, the wireless village discord, the ham radio village discord.
1658690	1665930	Very helpful folks. They'll help you get online. There's some quick basics you'll need to know,
1665930	1673490	such as getting a hotspot, getting a radio. But after that, there's just a lot of little things
1673490	1680170	that could take you days to understand when you could just chat with somebody for 30 minutes and
1680170	1686110	have a working system. So I definitely definitely suggest going to a community and getting some help
1687110	1694510	other than that. If you can't, YouTube is a great resource because just reading documentation,
1694510	1702190	sometimes you don't get the things you need to know, such as a receive list. If you don't add
1702290	1707230	a receive list, you might be able to talk out fine, but you won't be able to hear anybody.
1707230	1712330	And a lot of documentation I've read doesn't even mention it. So it's great to get those
1712330	1717470	little tidbits of information that could make or break your system from somebody that knows.
1719750	1723750	It's amazing how far it has come even in the last couple of years. I had a couple of
1723750	1729390	workshops I did a few years ago around monitoring systems, like trunk systems and DMR systems,
1729390	1738230	things like that. And now, those little pie pie zero, because you can buy 75 bucks,
1738230	1746030	and then you can buy the AnyTone DMR radio is under $200 now. Surplus Motorola. Yeah,
1746030	1750250	there you go. There's one right there. And I think that's what's not like $150. It's not very
1750250	1758390	expensive. It's really simple to get these things on the air and get started with. And I'm,
1758390	1764170	for one, really excited to see all this digital stuff really take off because it's the next
1764170	1771390	radio. And as neat as it is to say, you know, do more code and stuff, this is far more useful,
1771390	1781690	far more practical today. Kind of on a little side note there, kind of going back to what we
1781690	1790010	were talking about earlier. I said on the club net a couple weeks ago, hey, I have a new DMR
1790010	1796090	repeater. Those with DMR radios who would like to know more about DMR, come on, get on the repeater,
1796090	1804830	talk with us. We had a few less ignorant hams. I don't know. I'll just keep using the word
1804830	1812750	ignorant. That brings me back to that South Park episode. We've had ham say no, club, don't listen
1812750	1817290	to this guy. You do not want to get into digital radio. Digital radio is not where you want to be.
1817290	1823890	It's not real radio. And it's just... that very deeply frustrated me. I just let it go.
1823890	1828590	But there's definitely some pushback from the older ham community.
1830130	1833990	Yeah. And I mean, I think there is maybe a couple of reasons for that. You know,
1833990	1839110	it definitely is the bar of entry is much higher, especially, I think, with, you know, DMR.