1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,460 All right. 2 00:00:01,540 --> 00:00:03,280 Welcome to my presentation. 3 00:00:03,980 --> 00:00:05,860 This is Hybrid PhysSec Tools. 4 00:00:05,860 --> 00:00:08,200 The best of both worlds are just weird. 5 00:00:08,780 --> 00:00:11,620 This part of the tool is Lockpick Village for DEF CON 2018. 6 00:00:11,620 --> 00:00:12,980 My name is Didymus. 7 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:28,100 So I always like to start out with an agenda so we kind of know where we're going with the conversation, as well as if you come back and watch this recording or view these slides, then you know, kind of bookmark where different things were. 8 00:00:28,100 --> 00:00:30,720 So we're going to start out talking about what are PhysSec tools? 9 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:32,140 What do we use them for? 10 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:33,740 And then why? 11 00:00:33,740 --> 00:00:36,720 Why are we looking into the whole hybrid concept? 12 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,280 And is there even a need? 13 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,820 And then what about PhysSec tools? 14 00:00:40,820 --> 00:00:42,220 What's already out there? 15 00:00:42,220 --> 00:00:43,860 What are some ideas that work? 16 00:00:43,860 --> 00:00:45,160 What don't work? 17 00:00:45,780 --> 00:00:47,620 And then we'll go to the how. 18 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:49,600 So this is something I'm interested in. 19 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:50,600 How do I start? 20 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:55,400 Or what would I do if this is something that speaks to me that I'm kind of interested in? 21 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:57,700 So with that, we'll launch right into it. 22 00:00:59,280 --> 00:01:00,560 A little bit about me. 23 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,320 I've been picking locks for about 13 years. 24 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,080 I picked it up when I was in college. 25 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:09,820 I had a locksmith uncle who taught me a lot of the things and just went from there. 26 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,100 My favorite pick is DeForest Offset. 27 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:16,500 And my least favorite pick is this thing. 28 00:01:17,060 --> 00:01:24,200 My day job, I'm a security engineer for a technology company on their security operations and engineering team. 29 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,700 And I'm a lockpick enthusiast. 30 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:30,320 And I'm also happily married and a father of four children. 31 00:01:31,660 --> 00:01:33,260 All right, launching into it. 32 00:01:33,260 --> 00:01:35,440 So what are PhysSec tools? 33 00:01:35,820 --> 00:01:39,240 First of all, when I say PhysSec, I mean physical security. 34 00:01:39,260 --> 00:01:44,700 I mostly say that because I don't want to have to say physical security tools a million times in this presentation. 35 00:01:45,820 --> 00:01:51,580 So if you think about it, any tools that are used to test and or compromise physical security. 36 00:01:51,820 --> 00:01:55,580 I made up this definition, but that's the basic gist of it. 37 00:01:55,900 --> 00:01:59,360 So a few examples of this that you may or may not be familiar with. 38 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:03,380 If you're watching this presentation, you're most likely familiar with it. 39 00:02:03,380 --> 00:02:08,180 So things like lockpicks, bypass tools, drivers, jigglers, shims, etc. 40 00:02:08,180 --> 00:02:10,900 are all examples of PhysSec tools. 41 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:26,680 A couple weird examples, not so much weird, maybe just a bit different, or maybe things that you might not consider as physical security tools, are things like multi-tools, your standard Gerber, Leatherman, SOG type things. 42 00:02:26,900 --> 00:02:33,420 Wedges, these could be aluminum, these could be the air compressed wedges, as well as compressed air. 43 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:37,240 These are the cans that clean your keyboard and computer parts. 44 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:44,680 And then film reel, you can actually use reel-to-reel theater film reel to compromise certain types of doors. 45 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:50,220 Check out Pope, he's got a few videos talking about this as well. 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,980 Some awesome examples, so things like the thumb latch tool. 47 00:02:54,980 --> 00:02:57,020 If you don't know what this is, you should definitely check it out. 48 00:02:57,020 --> 00:03:01,980 It's a really neat tool, extremely useful, especially with double doors and things like that. 49 00:03:01,980 --> 00:03:03,320 And then the under-the-door tool. 50 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:08,460 I don't know a single physical security pen tester who does not have an under-the-door tool. 51 00:03:08,860 --> 00:03:10,520 They are a must-have. 52 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:14,780 They make the job very easy and very nice to have. 53 00:03:16,660 --> 00:03:18,820 And then there's the stuff that works in the pinch. 54 00:03:18,820 --> 00:03:25,040 So this would be like your standard bobby pins, paper clips, safety pins, stuff you find around. 55 00:03:25,040 --> 00:03:29,420 Like you could take a pop bottle and cut it and then you have something that you could shim with. 56 00:03:29,420 --> 00:03:33,560 This would be, you know, kind of the MacGyver method, I guess you could say. 57 00:03:34,260 --> 00:03:36,460 So let's talk hybrid for a minute. 58 00:03:36,620 --> 00:03:51,340 Hybrid tools, the way I'm interpreting them, is like when typically there's one tool that's used traditionally to manipulate a lock or bypass a latch or a door or something like that. 59 00:03:51,340 --> 00:03:58,180 But a hybrid tool is like there's more than one use for it instead of just the very specific one. 60 00:03:58,180 --> 00:04:06,160 I didn't want to use the word multi-tool in this presentation because I didn't want to confuse it with actual multi-tools, your Leatherman, your Gerbers, your things like that. 61 00:04:08,700 --> 00:04:14,360 Also, I do want to get this disclaimer out right here at the beginning, but hybrid doesn't always mean better. 62 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:21,720 And what I mean by that is just because it can do two things, it doesn't mean it can do two things really well. 63 00:04:22,300 --> 00:04:31,420 I remember years ago I was thinking about getting a motorcycle, but I wanted something that I could ride and have it be street legal, but I could also go dirt biking in the mountains. 64 00:04:31,420 --> 00:04:35,040 I was talking to some of my friends and they said, yeah, you could totally do that. 65 00:04:35,140 --> 00:04:40,180 It's going to suck at both of them though, so it's better to get something more specific. 66 00:04:40,180 --> 00:04:41,360 But that's not always the case. 67 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,380 Sometimes something that can do two things is still good at two things. 68 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,180 It just might not be as well. 69 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:54,000 So kind of have this dichotomy of you have this super specific exact tool for this exact situation. 70 00:04:54,460 --> 00:05:08,060 You want that or possibly compromise to have something that is more versatile, maybe not be the exact perfect one you would use, but you're trained, you use it, and you can do more with less kind of philosophy. 71 00:05:08,220 --> 00:05:10,580 So that's what I mean when I'm talking about hybrid tools. 72 00:05:10,580 --> 00:05:18,880 There's a picture of a couple here where you have a top of the keyway tensioner here, as well as a tubular tensioner, and then a comb pick. 73 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:21,480 There's space on that. 74 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:22,960 It's three tools in one. 75 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:25,180 It's small, it's slim, it's compact. 76 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:27,440 And then another one is a double-sided pick. 77 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:30,740 And also creativity. 78 00:05:30,760 --> 00:05:34,780 This is kind of a way various people can express their creativity. 79 00:05:35,140 --> 00:05:36,680 Someone will like it. 80 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:37,920 There's always trolls. 81 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,520 Someone will hate it, but someone will always like it, is what I've discovered. 82 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,300 So now we get to the why. 83 00:05:44,500 --> 00:05:46,440 So why would you want to do this? 84 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:49,360 Well, it comes back to that, can I do more with less? 85 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:57,800 I like to think of the example where let's say you're doing a physical pen test engagement, and you're going in during business hours. 86 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:02,140 Like, yeah, after hours, take your full tactical bag, you know, and everything. 87 00:06:02,140 --> 00:06:08,420 But if you're going in trying to masquerade as an employee or tailgate or something like that, you can't go in with your whole kit. 88 00:06:08,420 --> 00:06:17,240 You can't walk in in like a suit and tie, and then you have a 5.11 MOLLE tactical backpack with all of your goodies and your go bag and everything in it. 89 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:18,420 It's gonna stick out. 90 00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:20,340 So sometimes you need like custom tools. 91 00:06:20,340 --> 00:06:27,560 A lot of times physical pen testers will actually have custom tools for these type of situations. 92 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,300 Again, creativity. 93 00:06:30,300 --> 00:06:31,260 This is a great way to do it. 94 00:06:31,260 --> 00:06:32,300 I'm not a developer. 95 00:06:32,300 --> 00:06:38,880 You know, you come to DEF CON, a lot of people have these brand new zero days and Metasploit modules and things like that. 96 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:42,260 I'm not much of a programmer, but I like designing things. 97 00:06:42,260 --> 00:06:45,280 I'm more of a physical tool kind of person. 98 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:49,000 I like the actual creating something and holding it in your hand. 99 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:52,500 And another thing, like it could lead to better tools overall. 100 00:06:52,500 --> 00:06:55,820 And we're going to have a couple examples of that coming up. 101 00:06:55,920 --> 00:07:03,340 You know, your silly idea might be the tool that locksmiths and locksport enthusiasts have been wanting, but you just didn't know. 102 00:07:04,660 --> 00:07:06,580 So some things that inspire me. 103 00:07:06,580 --> 00:07:07,980 I really like spy stuff. 104 00:07:07,980 --> 00:07:10,300 I like the James Bond films. 105 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,080 I like the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C. 106 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,240 I'd recommend, you know, when you can, check it out. 107 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:17,440 It's well worth it. 108 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,340 Also, I like the S.E.A.R. 109 00:07:20,340 --> 00:07:20,760 stuff. 110 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:24,040 So the survival, evasion, resistance, escape type stuff. 111 00:07:24,460 --> 00:07:29,220 So this first thing here at the top is an actual titanium escape ring. 112 00:07:29,220 --> 00:07:32,120 It's got inside the ring. 113 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:33,840 It has a saw blade. 114 00:07:34,180 --> 00:07:37,340 It also functions as a handcuff shim. 115 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:40,060 And it's kind of cool. 116 00:07:40,060 --> 00:07:42,960 I don't have one myself, but I always thought that'd be kind of cool to have. 117 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,300 Then the top right, bottom left, these are two exhibits from the International Spy Museum. 118 00:07:47,300 --> 00:07:50,980 One is a jackknife from several years ago. 119 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:58,680 And then in the bottom left, we have one of the first lockpick pens, where the picks were actually concealed inside the pen body. 120 00:07:58,860 --> 00:08:05,740 And then on the bottom right, we have an example of a Gerber multi-tool that someone took and actually added lockpicks to it. 121 00:08:05,980 --> 00:08:11,420 So in this person's everyday carry, he had a tensioner, he had a couple, you know, your go-to lockpicks. 122 00:08:11,420 --> 00:08:13,220 And there's instructables on that. 123 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,120 You can go to instructables and find this. 124 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:17,780 And the link is in the notes as well. 125 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,460 So let's talk about an improvement example. 126 00:08:21,460 --> 00:08:22,940 I really like Sparrow stuff. 127 00:08:22,940 --> 00:08:24,460 They're not sponsoring this or anything like this. 128 00:08:24,460 --> 00:08:27,960 I have a lot of their tools, but I do like Sparrow stuff. 129 00:08:27,980 --> 00:08:34,220 Some of the things they have, kind of looking over here on the left, we've got their wafer jigglers, their wafer picks. 130 00:08:34,220 --> 00:08:35,720 You know, four of them, they come on a keychain. 131 00:08:35,720 --> 00:08:36,520 They're really nice. 132 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:41,140 They're good at getting in cabinet locks and some simpler locks and things like that. 133 00:08:41,140 --> 00:08:43,460 And then on the bottom left, you have your mini gem. 134 00:08:43,580 --> 00:08:45,680 This is something that I have a couple of. 135 00:08:45,680 --> 00:08:46,920 I really like it. 136 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:55,700 And then there in the middle, you have the Sparrow shank, which is used for decoding as well as bypassing unshielded padlocks, different things like that. 137 00:08:55,820 --> 00:09:02,980 So you take these three different tools, three, however many different tools, and they actually have a set called Sparrow's Dark Shift. 138 00:09:02,980 --> 00:09:05,580 So they created an expansion set for this. 139 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:14,880 And here on the right, you have your standard slim gem, but they actually narrowed the handle down, kind of cut a few holes in it to give it a little bit lighter weight. 140 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,700 And then you look at the next two tools. 141 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:18,500 Those are double-sided wafer picks. 142 00:09:18,500 --> 00:09:25,320 They have the exact same profile as the Sparrow's wafers over on the left, but they're double-sided and take up less space. 143 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:26,260 They're very skinny. 144 00:09:26,260 --> 00:09:28,380 In fact, I carry these in my wallet. 145 00:09:28,980 --> 00:09:32,840 Next, you have a Sparrow shank, which is shorter and it has a bit wider handle. 146 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:34,540 So maybe you can palm it better. 147 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:41,560 And then this thing on the end is a hook rake pick that you can use both for single pin picking as well as for raking. 148 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:42,900 It's called the Quick Strike. 149 00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:47,240 And from what I can tell, you can only get it in the Dark Shift expansion set. 150 00:09:47,260 --> 00:09:48,480 I really like it. 151 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:49,320 It's fun. 152 00:09:49,460 --> 00:09:53,100 It's definitely worth looking into if you haven't played around with them before. 153 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:59,760 And then a couple things, you know, first, you can use it as a hook or as a rake. 154 00:09:59,780 --> 00:10:01,440 And then they add these serrations. 155 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:07,020 So starting with that left one, it's kind of hard to see in this picture, but they're actually very fine serrations. 156 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:12,440 Part of the Dark Shift set that they made was so you could use it with or without gloves on. 157 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:16,180 So having those serrations, especially in the dark, would be extremely valuable. 158 00:10:16,180 --> 00:10:23,620 Looking at the serrations on the two double-sided wafer picks as well as the Mini Jim, you can see those look a lot more pronounced. 159 00:10:23,620 --> 00:10:24,960 And they actually look a little painful. 160 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,640 They're really not that bad because they're flat on top. 161 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,420 I'll be talking about serrations here in a little bit. 162 00:10:30,420 --> 00:10:39,220 But that's something where they took a couple existing tools, how can we combine them, make them more useful, more versatile, smaller form factor, that kind of stuff. 163 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,900 Another example. 164 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,640 So this is the Tag 5 Industries Scorpion lock pick set. 165 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:50,520 This is something that I acquired a few years, a couple years ago. 166 00:10:50,580 --> 00:10:59,360 And you'll notice that it's your standard tumbler, sorry, your standard tension tools, as well as your standard picks. 167 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,000 However, the handles are very different. 168 00:11:02,340 --> 00:11:03,440 Definitely check them out. 169 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:08,880 The reason why is because these were designed by a covert entry specialist. 170 00:11:09,580 --> 00:11:16,920 He worked, from what I understand, exclusively for the government agencies designing covert entry tools. 171 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:21,260 Now, whereas with a standard lock pick, you hold it more like you would hold a pencil. 172 00:11:21,460 --> 00:11:25,320 These you actually hold kind of like you're holding a handle of some sort. 173 00:11:26,580 --> 00:11:34,080 Typically, when you're doing covert entry, you don't want to like go up to a door, get down on your knees and start working on the doorknob. 174 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:39,420 This is something where you could actually stand up, hold it a different way, and look way less conspicuous. 175 00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:47,600 And this is something that he designed for government agencies and the like before coming and making them available to the public. 176 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:48,380 They're really neat. 177 00:11:48,380 --> 00:11:52,240 They are different to get used to, but they are really, really nice. 178 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:53,460 I'm a fan of them. 179 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,720 And as I mentioned earlier, I'm a fan of International Spy Museum. 180 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,020 They're actually featured in some of the exhibits. 181 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:03,960 So let's talk about some hybrid tool examples. 182 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:05,280 This is Lock Noob. 183 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,900 If you don't follow Lock Noob on Twitter and on YouTube, I highly recommend it. 184 00:12:09,900 --> 00:12:11,720 He puts out great content. 185 00:12:11,980 --> 00:12:13,420 He's done a few collaborations. 186 00:12:13,420 --> 00:12:16,020 These are just three of the collaborations that he's done. 187 00:12:16,020 --> 00:12:20,000 And then an interesting hybrid multi-tool that he designed. 188 00:12:20,860 --> 00:12:23,720 I could go and explain it, but he does a much better job. 189 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:24,940 Definitely check out his stuff. 190 00:12:24,940 --> 00:12:27,740 But starting at the top left, we have the gut wrench. 191 00:12:27,820 --> 00:12:38,840 This is a locksmithing tool where when you would take apart cylinders and change out the pins and stuff, at times you would need four or five different tools. 192 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,460 And he thought, why don't I just design one that has all of them in one? 193 00:12:42,460 --> 00:12:51,820 And I know locksmiths that actually use this because I have one tool instead of having to rummage all over my workbench and find the right tool to fit the right cylinder and the right diameter and stuff. 194 00:12:52,520 --> 00:13:00,820 Moving over to the top right, this is a lock... I kind of think of it like a locksmith kit in a multi-tool. 195 00:13:00,940 --> 00:13:12,300 He designed it in such a way that it had various picks, a knife, a screwdriver so you could take out Phillips head screws and things like that, and your standard American padlocks. 196 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:15,500 A place to put tensioners, tweezers, as well as plug followers. 197 00:13:15,880 --> 00:13:17,800 Again, these are YouTube videos. 198 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:18,300 Check them out. 199 00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:20,380 He breaks it down way better than I could. 200 00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:24,360 Moving to the bottom right, you have the goat wrench. 201 00:13:24,540 --> 00:13:47,300 So this is where he took um where he took that tensioner that I showed earlier and there's some tubular locks that it fits in there's some that it doesn't so he actually did a few prototypes took some stock steel and designed his own and then once he got the prototypes where he wanted did a collaboration with Sparrows and you can actually get the goat wrench today. 202 00:13:47,780 --> 00:13:51,460 And then finally on the bottom left we have the Sparrows Medusa. 203 00:13:51,460 --> 00:13:54,480 We'll we'll have a bit close up here in a second. 204 00:13:54,780 --> 00:14:02,860 I don't want you to point to notice that it's a pick that you can do single pin picking as well as raking with. 205 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:08,100 All right, and now we get to the or just plain weird. 206 00:14:08,260 --> 00:14:25,160 So remember back in 1999, the James Bond movie, The World is Not Enough, he had to break into someplace and so he had like this switchblade actioned credit card and he flipped it out and you know I I didn't pick locks at the time but going back looking at it it's very interesting. 207 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:36,840 I mean it's kind of we've got like some kind of S snake rate going on and then on the backside it's like a multi multiple ridge type raking lock. 208 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,260 I don't know it looked cool for Hollywood. 209 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:51,340 And then here on the right more practical from uh Johnny Depp's rendition of Sherlock Holmes where he had various tryout lever lock warded style picks which is interesting. 210 00:14:51,460 --> 00:14:57,720 So or just weird or practical or Hollywood I don't know but it is kind of interesting to see this stuff in media. 211 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,460 So back to Lock Noon for a second. 212 00:15:01,460 --> 00:15:12,440 This is a YouTube video where he talks specifically about the Medusa and I kind of follow the same process he does at least that he laid out in this video about designing new picks. 213 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:26,460 So starts with sketches starts designing them you know here's what I kind of want here's what I want it to do and start you know it's a lot easier to make mistakes on pen and paper before you start making prototypes. 214 00:15:26,460 --> 00:15:31,400 So he started running through a couple different designs what he was kind of thinking where he wanted to go with it. 215 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:38,260 Once you get to that point you can take the one you like and then you start making your own custom prototypes. 216 00:15:38,260 --> 00:15:56,640 You can you know get some kind of rotary tool create this yourself or you could even switch it over to computer-based modeling like CAD design go from that and then you tweak and work with your prototype until you have something that you really like which eventually ended up being the Sparrow's Medusa. 217 00:15:57,300 --> 00:16:11,780 And of course Lazarus you got this really beautiful artwork of this Medusa figure with the snakes and the hair and everything it's a really it's a really beautiful pick and it's also really functional when in doubt laser etching is pretty cool. 218 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:29,980 So where to begin this is something that's kind of interesting or maybe you've thought of a tool or something like that so this is kind of the process I follow but it's like you know what am I trying to solve or improve upon kind of start there like start brainstorming and I found that brainstorming always works best when I'm picking. 219 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:41,180 So and then ask yourself what's currently out there who's already done a lot of the work like think of Sparrows taking their own designs and then tweaking them and making them better in the dark shift expansion. 220 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:53,000 Then you get to the design and drawing phase then you start doing prototypes and testing and then you know you repeat that until you're happy with how your prototypes are and then you move to the production phase. 221 00:16:53,460 --> 00:17:30,760 So this is something I did a few years ago when I when I came up with this crazy idea like I wanted something sort of like a lock pick wallet card that was more than a one-time use like there's some that are good like tool makes a great one I like that once you break it out you can actually put on a keychain it's useful and there's some that you know they're definitely one-time use they're still good they work in a pinch but I wanted something that was like reusable and durable and stuff like that and I was trying to think of you know the spy type stuff so that's when I came up with like lock pick And I did the same processes before I even followed Lock Noob, 222 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:33,400 but it was like, I'm going to draw this out, you know. 223 00:17:33,460 --> 00:17:35,040 This is definitely a hybrid tool. 224 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,420 It stiffens my collar and it picks locks. 225 00:17:37,420 --> 00:17:43,300 And then I started taking actual collar stays and cutting them up and trying to make useful picks out of them. 226 00:17:43,540 --> 00:17:47,420 At that point, I started, I reached out to my brother-in-law, who is a machinist. 227 00:17:47,420 --> 00:17:51,520 We started cutting them up and trying them and we started making them. 228 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:58,900 And you can see these are like Mark 1 and Mark 2 prototypes where I had really sharp lines and things like that. 229 00:17:58,900 --> 00:18:00,060 And it wasn't really smooth. 230 00:18:00,060 --> 00:18:02,180 And, you know, that S-rake looks really dorky. 231 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:05,540 And I started tweaking the S-rake and then the diamond pick just looks ridiculous. 232 00:18:05,540 --> 00:18:07,320 And so I worked on that. 233 00:18:07,340 --> 00:18:11,260 So still realize this is the first time I ever did something like this. 234 00:18:11,260 --> 00:18:19,360 It's kind of like, OK, it may not be good at both things, but it's an interesting little spy gadget, what have you. 235 00:18:20,020 --> 00:18:23,580 So let's say you do that, get your prototypes working the way you want it. 236 00:18:23,580 --> 00:18:25,700 Now it's time for manufacturing and production. 237 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:29,540 So I usually get my my raw materials from McMaster Car. 238 00:18:29,540 --> 00:18:30,780 I like their website. 239 00:18:30,780 --> 00:18:31,860 You can order metal from there. 240 00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:36,300 It's very specific on the type, the gauge, the dimensions. 241 00:18:36,740 --> 00:18:40,860 You pay more for it, but it's actually been pretty good for me. 242 00:18:40,940 --> 00:18:47,900 As far as production, you can either design these all yourself if you have that kind of time or what I like to do, I actually pay someone. 243 00:18:47,900 --> 00:18:50,200 I have a metal shop that does precision laser. 244 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:51,420 I can give them my CAD drawings. 245 00:18:51,420 --> 00:18:53,080 I can give them the metal. 246 00:18:53,260 --> 00:18:58,780 And then they just charge me for thickness and laser runtime. 247 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:00,540 So it's fairly affordable. 248 00:19:01,060 --> 00:19:03,620 And then as far as shipping, I've done it both ways. 249 00:19:04,560 --> 00:19:07,540 You know, you could have like a Google Forms or a Google Sites type thing. 250 00:19:07,540 --> 00:19:10,300 And once you fill it out, it sends you to a PayPal button. 251 00:19:10,300 --> 00:19:13,120 PayPal handles all the shipping and postage and stuff like that. 252 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,700 It works pretty well. 253 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:23,140 So when I did my Lockpick Caller stays, I did do a crowdfunding through Kickstarter, and it was definitely a learning experience. 254 00:19:23,140 --> 00:19:26,820 There's some pros and cons, but, you know, this is all my opinion on it. 255 00:19:27,060 --> 00:19:30,620 You know, what's nice is it's a great platform to get your stuff out there. 256 00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:33,820 It handles all the campaigning, the deadlines. 257 00:19:33,820 --> 00:19:36,260 It reaches out to the buyers securely. 258 00:19:36,380 --> 00:19:38,740 They handle all the processing and stuff. 259 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:39,800 It's great. 260 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:41,500 There are some cons to it. 261 00:19:42,660 --> 00:19:44,860 Basically, you know, there's taxes. 262 00:19:44,860 --> 00:19:47,920 No matter how you do this, you should be paying taxes, right? 263 00:19:47,940 --> 00:19:57,960 If you make more than you make, if you, from your backers, get up to $20,000 raised, they give you tax forms. 264 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,700 Otherwise, they're like, you take care of it yourself. 265 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:07,680 Also, they're completely, they can't be held liable in any way if you don't fulfill on payments or things like that. 266 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,440 And then, you know, when the campaign ends and you're funded, you don't immediately get the money. 267 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:17,700 It could be anywhere from one to four weeks, depending, because they're gathering money from the backers on your behalf. 268 00:20:18,940 --> 00:20:24,800 And then, you know, so my advice, you know, figure out your design, your manufacturing, your production first. 269 00:20:25,180 --> 00:20:30,260 Do not ever use funds for your own research and development and figuring out mistakes. 270 00:20:30,260 --> 00:20:33,680 Because I don't know how thin your margins are if you're doing a crowdfunding. 271 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:39,040 But if they're thin and then you're using that money to figure out your mistakes, you're going to have a bad time. 272 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,280 So and then always be responsive. 273 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:46,500 Reach out to people, you know, have a Twitter presence, whatever, and make sure you fulfill commitments. 274 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:50,580 So these are my lock pick collar stays I designed. 275 00:20:50,580 --> 00:20:53,820 These are actually the DEF CON 27 ones that I did. 276 00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:59,560 I did some like a limited edition, like run of them and did some laser etching. 277 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,800 So when in doubt, you know, lasers. 278 00:21:03,500 --> 00:21:06,740 So current projects that I'm working on, I kind of only have one right now. 279 00:21:06,740 --> 00:21:10,380 I've had a bit more time because of COVID-19 and things like that. 280 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:11,820 But a little bit of backstory. 281 00:21:11,940 --> 00:21:19,680 My wife and I moved into a new house in December and all of the internal doors had like different locks on them. 282 00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:27,280 Some of them were like the small flathead screwdrivers, some were like the pushpin and some were even like cheap Kwikset handles. 283 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,780 And I was like, why are you putting this inside a house? 284 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,740 And my kids would like lock these and close the door. 285 00:21:32,740 --> 00:21:36,040 So I got to the point where I was always carrying around a Sparrows Minijim with me. 286 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:44,660 And then sometimes it would be that Kwikset and I was like, OK, I pull out my, you know, my RCS jackknife or whatever and I pick it open because I didn't have the key to it. 287 00:21:44,660 --> 00:21:49,140 I eventually replaced the doorknobs and we ordered, you know, the little screwdriver keys for it. 288 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:59,980 But I kind of got thinking like it'd be nice to have like a bypass tool that was like, you know, I can jim, but I can also use it to like Kwik pick or jiggle open things. 289 00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:05,060 Also, I didn't want to carry a traveler's hook around in my pocket because that's really sharp and uncomfortable. 290 00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:06,100 So. 291 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,300 All right. 292 00:22:07,300 --> 00:22:08,540 So let's take this process. 293 00:22:08,540 --> 00:22:10,000 This is where I'm currently at. 294 00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:13,980 I definitely wanted a bypass tool, something that I could latch slip or Lloyd with. 295 00:22:13,980 --> 00:22:15,580 I want a small form factor. 296 00:22:15,580 --> 00:22:21,860 I wanted something that I could take on an airplane if I needed like there wasn't anything sharp or bladed. 297 00:22:21,860 --> 00:22:26,320 It was under seven inches, reusable, durable, versatile, things like that. 298 00:22:27,260 --> 00:22:29,360 So I started looking at what was currently available. 299 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:30,560 You know, we have your mini jim. 300 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:39,280 I started thinking about common keys, you know, your CH751s and then auto jigglers, which you can use for more than just cars. 301 00:22:39,340 --> 00:22:41,600 Also, the wafer picks that we showed earlier. 302 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:46,040 I started thinking about the TSA007 because that's the most common TSA key. 303 00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,620 And then like a shank or decoder type thing. 304 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,640 And then we go to the design phase. 305 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:53,520 So I'm a pen and paper kind of guy. 306 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:58,340 What's nice about this is you can actually put the lock pick tools directly on the paper and trace it out. 307 00:22:58,340 --> 00:23:00,140 It's much easier than free handing it. 308 00:23:00,140 --> 00:23:04,820 So I started sketching out the ideas, started thinking about the different kind of tools that I wanted. 309 00:23:05,260 --> 00:23:07,580 And then at that point, I switched over to CAD. 310 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,200 Now I've done both LibreCAD, which is an open source. 311 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,140 You can tell it's open source. 312 00:23:12,140 --> 00:23:14,480 Then I've also used Autodesk Fusion 360. 313 00:23:14,660 --> 00:23:15,440 It's great. 314 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,360 It seems like it's a lot more developed. 315 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:22,480 It is a paid service, but you can get it through like a student one. 316 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:27,120 Or they do have a startup license if you make less than a hundred thousand type thing. 317 00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:32,660 So I started designing it and it was really intuitive. 318 00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:37,040 I mean, I watched a couple of YouTube videos and some Pluralsight courses on how to use it. 319 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,000 It really got me going pretty quick. 320 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:46,820 And so I designed a, you know, I took a mini gem on the one side and then I wanted like a double sided wafer pick. 321 00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:52,480 And then I built in a little finger well, because I think it's important that tools are comfortable in the hand, you know, work on ergonomics. 322 00:23:52,900 --> 00:24:01,600 And then at that point, you can extrude it out to the width and everything that you want and then start working with the designs and stuff like that. 323 00:24:01,620 --> 00:24:02,700 So that's what I did. 324 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,460 And then I designed three more. 325 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:07,500 And these are my Mark 1 prototypes. 326 00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:13,380 And I put a hole in it because I was thinking, you know, maybe we want a lanyard hole or put this on a key chain or something like that. 327 00:24:13,380 --> 00:24:19,060 And so at the top, working our way down, we have our CH751 and we have our double sided wafer pick. 328 00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:29,340 Then the next two are auto jigglers that you could use as a double sided auto jiggler or kind of like a dull, kind of a shallower half diamond pick. 329 00:24:29,820 --> 00:24:32,680 You can't see it too well, but I did try to add serrations. 330 00:24:32,680 --> 00:24:39,000 My next one I need to, my next designs, I actually need to tweak this a little bit. 331 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,860 Kind of standardize the size of the mini gym side and things like that. 332 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:47,820 I will say something about serrations. 333 00:24:47,820 --> 00:24:50,080 If you do put serrations in, they are nice. 334 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,580 Make sure they're dull serrations. 335 00:24:51,580 --> 00:24:56,140 And the way I found that works pretty well for that is half circles with lines connecting them. 336 00:24:56,180 --> 00:24:57,040 They're really nice. 337 00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,220 You can fill them, but they don't cut into you. 338 00:24:59,220 --> 00:25:01,160 Don't do the sawtooth serrations. 339 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:03,420 So something you should think about. 340 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,320 So at this point, I have my Mark 1 prototypes. 341 00:25:07,460 --> 00:25:10,320 I did a batch of about a hundred of them. 342 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:14,520 Well, no, I did a batch of like 40 sets or so. 343 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,540 I sent them out to a couple people. 344 00:25:16,540 --> 00:25:21,060 I still have quite a few, but you can see a few things that I want to make some changes on. 345 00:25:21,060 --> 00:25:25,400 There was a little, in the wafer pick, you can see a little half circle that was cut out there. 346 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,160 That was just a mistake by the manufacturer. 347 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,180 And you can see that the serrations didn't really come through. 348 00:25:30,180 --> 00:25:32,320 I didn't have a fine enough laser going. 349 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:36,400 A couple ideas that I scrapped was like the TSA-007. 350 00:25:36,420 --> 00:25:44,220 The reason why is this is in 31 thousandths of an inch or 0.787 millimeter steel. 351 00:25:44,260 --> 00:25:49,400 And the way the TSA-007 is set up, it's more like a Z-shaped keyway. 352 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,560 It just wasn't feasible. 353 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,060 However, the CH-751 works great. 354 00:25:53,060 --> 00:25:54,580 It works perfect. 355 00:25:54,580 --> 00:25:56,060 I'm not going to change anything with that. 356 00:25:56,060 --> 00:25:56,960 I really like it. 357 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,820 Also, I did decide to get rid of the decoder, because if I want this to be TSA-safe, I can't have a sharp spike on it. 358 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,620 So next steps, I'm going to standardize the jim dimensions across all of them. 359 00:26:08,620 --> 00:26:10,320 I'm going to fix that weird circle. 360 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,500 Change the pick profile on the wafer pick. 361 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:17,600 You'll notice at the point, there's actually two peaks on the top and the bottom. 362 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:19,000 It makes it just a bit too thick. 363 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,140 So I'm going to change those dimensions a little bit. 364 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:24,400 And then, you know, deeper, more pronounced serrations. 365 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:28,160 All right. 366 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,340 So kind of what I just said here. 367 00:26:30,340 --> 00:26:33,040 Keep improving prototypes, because I'm not happy how they are yet. 368 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:38,660 But I do recommend you send them out to trusted friends who will give candid feedback. 369 00:26:38,740 --> 00:26:44,440 Don't send it out to people who are only positive, like, oh, this is so great. 370 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,120 You're going to make a million dollars off of this. 371 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:47,360 So clever of you. 372 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,160 Send out to people who, like, know what they're talking about. 373 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:51,860 Like, I can see the value of this. 374 00:26:51,860 --> 00:26:53,060 Here's something I would change. 375 00:26:53,060 --> 00:26:54,700 Here's how it feels in my hand. 376 00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:58,540 This is really valuable because then you're getting the feedback you want. 377 00:26:58,540 --> 00:27:02,640 If you're doing a crowdfunding type thing, you're not spending money on figuring this out. 378 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,460 You know, I'm paying this up front. 379 00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:05,440 Whatever. 380 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:07,360 Raw materials manufacturing. 381 00:27:07,360 --> 00:27:08,580 I've already covered that. 382 00:27:08,580 --> 00:27:09,500 Things I like to do. 383 00:27:09,500 --> 00:27:16,040 And then once you're happy, is this a point where you want to reach out to lock pick companies and look at some kind of a collaboration? 384 00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,080 Sparrows, I've reached out to them before. 385 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,900 They seem pretty good to work with. 386 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,080 You know, I don't have any negative feelings against them. 387 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:27,200 I decided not to go with them, just make it on my own. 388 00:27:27,340 --> 00:27:31,800 But I know other people have had success with it and been happy with it. 389 00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,160 And I, you know, more power to them. 390 00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:36,140 Let's see. 391 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,920 Yeah, I've already talked about how I hire a metal shop to laser cut them for me. 392 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:51,180 I send them the CAD files and they're really good with CAD and they can, like, find out the most, the best layout to get the most out of my sheet metal and stuff and calculate costs and things like that. 393 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:52,400 And then distribution. 394 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,840 I mean, are you going to send this domestic? 395 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,020 Are you going to send international? 396 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,200 One thing I discovered is I had all these international buyers in my caller states. 397 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:01,920 Like, is this going to be customs friendly? 398 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,200 And I didn't consider it and said, you know what? 399 00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,920 Yep, I could probably make a lot more money, but I'm going to cover customs because I don't want to be a jerk. 400 00:28:09,620 --> 00:28:14,480 But that's kind of the point you get to, you know, it's like I want to make something good. 401 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:15,880 I want people to be happy. 402 00:28:16,180 --> 00:28:17,960 Yeah, some people are going to think it's dumb. 403 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:18,980 They don't have to buy it. 404 00:28:18,980 --> 00:28:20,920 Some people are going to think, hey, this is kind of cool. 405 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,400 This is this is clever. 406 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:28,460 I mean, it's something I might throw in my wallet or, you know, I like this kind of hybrid tool. 407 00:28:28,460 --> 00:28:29,680 It's really interesting. 408 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,520 So that's that's kind of where I'm at. 409 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,680 And that is my talk, pretty much. 410 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,220 I'm on Discord. 411 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:39,080 I go by Didymus. 412 00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:40,080 I'm also on Twitter. 413 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:44,580 If you want to send me a DM, I think they'll be open for a little while, but same handle. 414 00:28:44,580 --> 00:28:48,180 And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them as best I can. 415 00:28:48,180 --> 00:28:55,140 But, you know, I'm curious to see what what kind of hybrid PhysTech tools you might have out there, what ideas you might have. 416 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,520 And yeah, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out and thanks for taking the time. 417 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,320 So with that, I will say thanks and enjoy the rest of the con.