WEBVTT 00:00.000 --> 00:01.460 All right. 00:01.540 --> 00:03.280 Welcome to my presentation. 00:03.980 --> 00:05.860 This is Hybrid PhysSec Tools. 00:05.860 --> 00:08.200 The best of both worlds are just weird. 00:08.780 --> 00:11.620 This part of the tool is Lockpick Village for DEF CON 2018. 00:11.620 --> 00:12.980 My name is Didymus. 00:15.200 --> 00:28.100 So I always like to start out with an agenda so we kind of know where we're going with the conversation, as well as if you come back and watch this recording or view these slides, then you know, kind of bookmark where different things were. 00:28.100 --> 00:30.720 So we're going to start out talking about what are PhysSec tools? 00:30.720 --> 00:32.140 What do we use them for? 00:32.520 --> 00:33.740 And then why? 00:33.740 --> 00:36.720 Why are we looking into the whole hybrid concept? 00:36.720 --> 00:38.280 And is there even a need? 00:38.280 --> 00:40.820 And then what about PhysSec tools? 00:40.820 --> 00:42.220 What's already out there? 00:42.220 --> 00:43.860 What are some ideas that work? 00:43.860 --> 00:45.160 What don't work? 00:45.780 --> 00:47.620 And then we'll go to the how. 00:47.840 --> 00:49.600 So this is something I'm interested in. 00:49.600 --> 00:50.600 How do I start? 00:50.600 --> 00:55.400 Or what would I do if this is something that speaks to me that I'm kind of interested in? 00:55.640 --> 00:57.700 So with that, we'll launch right into it. 00:59.280 --> 01:00.560 A little bit about me. 01:00.560 --> 01:03.320 I've been picking locks for about 13 years. 01:03.320 --> 01:05.080 I picked it up when I was in college. 01:05.080 --> 01:09.820 I had a locksmith uncle who taught me a lot of the things and just went from there. 01:09.840 --> 01:12.100 My favorite pick is DeForest Offset. 01:12.160 --> 01:16.500 And my least favorite pick is this thing. 01:17.060 --> 01:24.200 My day job, I'm a security engineer for a technology company on their security operations and engineering team. 01:24.200 --> 01:26.700 And I'm a lockpick enthusiast. 01:26.700 --> 01:30.320 And I'm also happily married and a father of four children. 01:31.660 --> 01:33.260 All right, launching into it. 01:33.260 --> 01:35.440 So what are PhysSec tools? 01:35.820 --> 01:39.240 First of all, when I say PhysSec, I mean physical security. 01:39.260 --> 01:44.700 I mostly say that because I don't want to have to say physical security tools a million times in this presentation. 01:45.820 --> 01:51.580 So if you think about it, any tools that are used to test and or compromise physical security. 01:51.820 --> 01:55.580 I made up this definition, but that's the basic gist of it. 01:55.900 --> 01:59.360 So a few examples of this that you may or may not be familiar with. 01:59.360 --> 02:03.380 If you're watching this presentation, you're most likely familiar with it. 02:03.380 --> 02:08.180 So things like lockpicks, bypass tools, drivers, jigglers, shims, etc. 02:08.180 --> 02:10.900 are all examples of PhysSec tools. 02:12.440 --> 02:26.680 A couple weird examples, not so much weird, maybe just a bit different, or maybe things that you might not consider as physical security tools, are things like multi-tools, your standard Gerber, Leatherman, SOG type things. 02:26.900 --> 02:33.420 Wedges, these could be aluminum, these could be the air compressed wedges, as well as compressed air. 02:33.420 --> 02:37.240 These are the cans that clean your keyboard and computer parts. 02:37.240 --> 02:44.680 And then film reel, you can actually use reel-to-reel theater film reel to compromise certain types of doors. 02:44.680 --> 02:50.220 Check out Pope, he's got a few videos talking about this as well. 02:52.000 --> 02:54.980 Some awesome examples, so things like the thumb latch tool. 02:54.980 --> 02:57.020 If you don't know what this is, you should definitely check it out. 02:57.020 --> 03:01.980 It's a really neat tool, extremely useful, especially with double doors and things like that. 03:01.980 --> 03:03.320 And then the under-the-door tool. 03:03.320 --> 03:08.460 I don't know a single physical security pen tester who does not have an under-the-door tool. 03:08.860 --> 03:10.520 They are a must-have. 03:10.520 --> 03:14.780 They make the job very easy and very nice to have. 03:16.660 --> 03:18.820 And then there's the stuff that works in the pinch. 03:18.820 --> 03:25.040 So this would be like your standard bobby pins, paper clips, safety pins, stuff you find around. 03:25.040 --> 03:29.420 Like you could take a pop bottle and cut it and then you have something that you could shim with. 03:29.420 --> 03:33.560 This would be, you know, kind of the MacGyver method, I guess you could say. 03:34.260 --> 03:36.460 So let's talk hybrid for a minute. 03:36.620 --> 03:51.340 Hybrid tools, the way I'm interpreting them, is like when typically there's one tool that's used traditionally to manipulate a lock or bypass a latch or a door or something like that. 03:51.340 --> 03:58.180 But a hybrid tool is like there's more than one use for it instead of just the very specific one. 03:58.180 --> 04:06.160 I didn't want to use the word multi-tool in this presentation because I didn't want to confuse it with actual multi-tools, your Leatherman, your Gerbers, your things like that. 04:08.700 --> 04:14.360 Also, I do want to get this disclaimer out right here at the beginning, but hybrid doesn't always mean better. 04:14.360 --> 04:21.720 And what I mean by that is just because it can do two things, it doesn't mean it can do two things really well. 04:22.300 --> 04:31.420 I remember years ago I was thinking about getting a motorcycle, but I wanted something that I could ride and have it be street legal, but I could also go dirt biking in the mountains. 04:31.420 --> 04:35.040 I was talking to some of my friends and they said, yeah, you could totally do that. 04:35.140 --> 04:40.180 It's going to suck at both of them though, so it's better to get something more specific. 04:40.180 --> 04:41.360 But that's not always the case. 04:41.400 --> 04:46.380 Sometimes something that can do two things is still good at two things. 04:46.400 --> 04:48.180 It just might not be as well. 04:48.240 --> 04:54.000 So kind of have this dichotomy of you have this super specific exact tool for this exact situation. 04:54.460 --> 05:08.060 You want that or possibly compromise to have something that is more versatile, maybe not be the exact perfect one you would use, but you're trained, you use it, and you can do more with less kind of philosophy. 05:08.220 --> 05:10.580 So that's what I mean when I'm talking about hybrid tools. 05:10.580 --> 05:18.880 There's a picture of a couple here where you have a top of the keyway tensioner here, as well as a tubular tensioner, and then a comb pick. 05:19.520 --> 05:21.480 There's space on that. 05:21.520 --> 05:22.960 It's three tools in one. 05:22.960 --> 05:25.180 It's small, it's slim, it's compact. 05:25.240 --> 05:27.440 And then another one is a double-sided pick. 05:29.440 --> 05:30.740 And also creativity. 05:30.760 --> 05:34.780 This is kind of a way various people can express their creativity. 05:35.140 --> 05:36.680 Someone will like it. 05:36.760 --> 05:37.920 There's always trolls. 05:37.920 --> 05:41.520 Someone will hate it, but someone will always like it, is what I've discovered. 05:42.520 --> 05:44.300 So now we get to the why. 05:44.500 --> 05:46.440 So why would you want to do this? 05:46.440 --> 05:49.360 Well, it comes back to that, can I do more with less? 05:49.440 --> 05:57.800 I like to think of the example where let's say you're doing a physical pen test engagement, and you're going in during business hours. 05:57.800 --> 06:02.140 Like, yeah, after hours, take your full tactical bag, you know, and everything. 06:02.140 --> 06:08.420 But if you're going in trying to masquerade as an employee or tailgate or something like that, you can't go in with your whole kit. 06:08.420 --> 06:17.240 You can't walk in in like a suit and tie, and then you have a 5.11 MOLLE tactical backpack with all of your goodies and your go bag and everything in it. 06:17.240 --> 06:18.420 It's gonna stick out. 06:18.420 --> 06:20.340 So sometimes you need like custom tools. 06:20.340 --> 06:27.560 A lot of times physical pen testers will actually have custom tools for these type of situations. 06:28.160 --> 06:30.300 Again, creativity. 06:30.300 --> 06:31.260 This is a great way to do it. 06:31.260 --> 06:32.300 I'm not a developer. 06:32.300 --> 06:38.880 You know, you come to DEF CON, a lot of people have these brand new zero days and Metasploit modules and things like that. 06:38.880 --> 06:42.260 I'm not much of a programmer, but I like designing things. 06:42.260 --> 06:45.280 I'm more of a physical tool kind of person. 06:45.280 --> 06:49.000 I like the actual creating something and holding it in your hand. 06:49.640 --> 06:52.500 And another thing, like it could lead to better tools overall. 06:52.500 --> 06:55.820 And we're going to have a couple examples of that coming up. 06:55.920 --> 07:03.340 You know, your silly idea might be the tool that locksmiths and locksport enthusiasts have been wanting, but you just didn't know. 07:04.660 --> 07:06.580 So some things that inspire me. 07:06.580 --> 07:07.980 I really like spy stuff. 07:07.980 --> 07:10.300 I like the James Bond films. 07:10.300 --> 07:13.080 I like the International Spy Museum in Washington, D.C. 07:13.080 --> 07:16.240 I'd recommend, you know, when you can, check it out. 07:16.240 --> 07:17.440 It's well worth it. 07:17.920 --> 07:20.340 Also, I like the S.E.A.R. 07:20.340 --> 07:20.760 stuff. 07:20.760 --> 07:24.040 So the survival, evasion, resistance, escape type stuff. 07:24.460 --> 07:29.220 So this first thing here at the top is an actual titanium escape ring. 07:29.220 --> 07:32.120 It's got inside the ring. 07:32.120 --> 07:33.840 It has a saw blade. 07:34.180 --> 07:37.340 It also functions as a handcuff shim. 07:38.360 --> 07:40.060 And it's kind of cool. 07:40.060 --> 07:42.960 I don't have one myself, but I always thought that'd be kind of cool to have. 07:43.200 --> 07:47.300 Then the top right, bottom left, these are two exhibits from the International Spy Museum. 07:47.300 --> 07:50.980 One is a jackknife from several years ago. 07:51.500 --> 07:58.680 And then in the bottom left, we have one of the first lockpick pens, where the picks were actually concealed inside the pen body. 07:58.860 --> 08:05.740 And then on the bottom right, we have an example of a Gerber multi-tool that someone took and actually added lockpicks to it. 08:05.980 --> 08:11.420 So in this person's everyday carry, he had a tensioner, he had a couple, you know, your go-to lockpicks. 08:11.420 --> 08:13.220 And there's instructables on that. 08:13.500 --> 08:15.120 You can go to instructables and find this. 08:15.120 --> 08:17.780 And the link is in the notes as well. 08:19.200 --> 08:21.460 So let's talk about an improvement example. 08:21.460 --> 08:22.940 I really like Sparrow stuff. 08:22.940 --> 08:24.460 They're not sponsoring this or anything like this. 08:24.460 --> 08:27.960 I have a lot of their tools, but I do like Sparrow stuff. 08:27.980 --> 08:34.220 Some of the things they have, kind of looking over here on the left, we've got their wafer jigglers, their wafer picks. 08:34.220 --> 08:35.720 You know, four of them, they come on a keychain. 08:35.720 --> 08:36.520 They're really nice. 08:36.520 --> 08:41.140 They're good at getting in cabinet locks and some simpler locks and things like that. 08:41.140 --> 08:43.460 And then on the bottom left, you have your mini gem. 08:43.580 --> 08:45.680 This is something that I have a couple of. 08:45.680 --> 08:46.920 I really like it. 08:47.320 --> 08:55.700 And then there in the middle, you have the Sparrow shank, which is used for decoding as well as bypassing unshielded padlocks, different things like that. 08:55.820 --> 09:02.980 So you take these three different tools, three, however many different tools, and they actually have a set called Sparrow's Dark Shift. 09:02.980 --> 09:05.580 So they created an expansion set for this. 09:05.600 --> 09:14.880 And here on the right, you have your standard slim gem, but they actually narrowed the handle down, kind of cut a few holes in it to give it a little bit lighter weight. 09:14.880 --> 09:16.700 And then you look at the next two tools. 09:16.700 --> 09:18.500 Those are double-sided wafer picks. 09:18.500 --> 09:25.320 They have the exact same profile as the Sparrow's wafers over on the left, but they're double-sided and take up less space. 09:25.320 --> 09:26.260 They're very skinny. 09:26.260 --> 09:28.380 In fact, I carry these in my wallet. 09:28.980 --> 09:32.840 Next, you have a Sparrow shank, which is shorter and it has a bit wider handle. 09:32.840 --> 09:34.540 So maybe you can palm it better. 09:34.800 --> 09:41.560 And then this thing on the end is a hook rake pick that you can use both for single pin picking as well as for raking. 09:41.560 --> 09:42.900 It's called the Quick Strike. 09:42.900 --> 09:47.240 And from what I can tell, you can only get it in the Dark Shift expansion set. 09:47.260 --> 09:48.480 I really like it. 09:48.480 --> 09:49.320 It's fun. 09:49.460 --> 09:53.100 It's definitely worth looking into if you haven't played around with them before. 09:54.320 --> 09:59.760 And then a couple things, you know, first, you can use it as a hook or as a rake. 09:59.780 --> 10:01.440 And then they add these serrations. 10:01.440 --> 10:07.020 So starting with that left one, it's kind of hard to see in this picture, but they're actually very fine serrations. 10:07.120 --> 10:12.440 Part of the Dark Shift set that they made was so you could use it with or without gloves on. 10:12.440 --> 10:16.180 So having those serrations, especially in the dark, would be extremely valuable. 10:16.180 --> 10:23.620 Looking at the serrations on the two double-sided wafer picks as well as the Mini Jim, you can see those look a lot more pronounced. 10:23.620 --> 10:24.960 And they actually look a little painful. 10:24.960 --> 10:27.640 They're really not that bad because they're flat on top. 10:27.640 --> 10:30.420 I'll be talking about serrations here in a little bit. 10:30.420 --> 10:39.220 But that's something where they took a couple existing tools, how can we combine them, make them more useful, more versatile, smaller form factor, that kind of stuff. 10:40.440 --> 10:41.900 Another example. 10:41.900 --> 10:45.640 So this is the Tag 5 Industries Scorpion lock pick set. 10:45.640 --> 10:50.520 This is something that I acquired a few years, a couple years ago. 10:50.580 --> 10:59.360 And you'll notice that it's your standard tumbler, sorry, your standard tension tools, as well as your standard picks. 10:59.360 --> 11:02.000 However, the handles are very different. 11:02.340 --> 11:03.440 Definitely check them out. 11:03.440 --> 11:08.880 The reason why is because these were designed by a covert entry specialist. 11:09.580 --> 11:16.920 He worked, from what I understand, exclusively for the government agencies designing covert entry tools. 11:17.160 --> 11:21.260 Now, whereas with a standard lock pick, you hold it more like you would hold a pencil. 11:21.460 --> 11:25.320 These you actually hold kind of like you're holding a handle of some sort. 11:26.580 --> 11:34.080 Typically, when you're doing covert entry, you don't want to like go up to a door, get down on your knees and start working on the doorknob. 11:34.080 --> 11:39.420 This is something where you could actually stand up, hold it a different way, and look way less conspicuous. 11:39.860 --> 11:47.600 And this is something that he designed for government agencies and the like before coming and making them available to the public. 11:47.700 --> 11:48.380 They're really neat. 11:48.380 --> 11:52.240 They are different to get used to, but they are really, really nice. 11:52.240 --> 11:53.460 I'm a fan of them. 11:53.720 --> 11:56.720 And as I mentioned earlier, I'm a fan of International Spy Museum. 11:56.720 --> 11:59.020 They're actually featured in some of the exhibits. 12:00.760 --> 12:03.960 So let's talk about some hybrid tool examples. 12:03.960 --> 12:05.280 This is Lock Noob. 12:05.280 --> 12:09.900 If you don't follow Lock Noob on Twitter and on YouTube, I highly recommend it. 12:09.900 --> 12:11.720 He puts out great content. 12:11.980 --> 12:13.420 He's done a few collaborations. 12:13.420 --> 12:16.020 These are just three of the collaborations that he's done. 12:16.020 --> 12:20.000 And then an interesting hybrid multi-tool that he designed. 12:20.860 --> 12:23.720 I could go and explain it, but he does a much better job. 12:23.720 --> 12:24.940 Definitely check out his stuff. 12:24.940 --> 12:27.740 But starting at the top left, we have the gut wrench. 12:27.820 --> 12:38.840 This is a locksmithing tool where when you would take apart cylinders and change out the pins and stuff, at times you would need four or five different tools. 12:39.080 --> 12:42.460 And he thought, why don't I just design one that has all of them in one? 12:42.460 --> 12:51.820 And I know locksmiths that actually use this because I have one tool instead of having to rummage all over my workbench and find the right tool to fit the right cylinder and the right diameter and stuff. 12:52.520 --> 13:00.820 Moving over to the top right, this is a lock... I kind of think of it like a locksmith kit in a multi-tool. 13:00.940 --> 13:12.300 He designed it in such a way that it had various picks, a knife, a screwdriver so you could take out Phillips head screws and things like that, and your standard American padlocks. 13:12.300 --> 13:15.500 A place to put tensioners, tweezers, as well as plug followers. 13:15.880 --> 13:17.800 Again, these are YouTube videos. 13:17.800 --> 13:18.300 Check them out. 13:18.300 --> 13:20.380 He breaks it down way better than I could. 13:20.820 --> 13:24.360 Moving to the bottom right, you have the goat wrench. 13:24.540 --> 13:47.300 So this is where he took um where he took that tensioner that I showed earlier and there's some tubular locks that it fits in there's some that it doesn't so he actually did a few prototypes took some stock steel and designed his own and then once he got the prototypes where he wanted did a collaboration with Sparrows and you can actually get the goat wrench today. 13:47.780 --> 13:51.460 And then finally on the bottom left we have the Sparrows Medusa. 13:51.460 --> 13:54.480 We'll we'll have a bit close up here in a second. 13:54.780 --> 14:02.860 I don't want you to point to notice that it's a pick that you can do single pin picking as well as raking with. 14:05.160 --> 14:08.100 All right, and now we get to the or just plain weird. 14:08.260 --> 14:25.160 So remember back in 1999, the James Bond movie, The World is Not Enough, he had to break into someplace and so he had like this switchblade actioned credit card and he flipped it out and you know I I didn't pick locks at the time but going back looking at it it's very interesting. 14:25.160 --> 14:36.840 I mean it's kind of we've got like some kind of S snake rate going on and then on the backside it's like a multi multiple ridge type raking lock. 14:36.840 --> 14:39.260 I don't know it looked cool for Hollywood. 14:39.440 --> 14:51.340 And then here on the right more practical from uh Johnny Depp's rendition of Sherlock Holmes where he had various tryout lever lock warded style picks which is interesting. 14:51.460 --> 14:57.720 So or just weird or practical or Hollywood I don't know but it is kind of interesting to see this stuff in media. 14:58.800 --> 15:01.460 So back to Lock Noon for a second. 15:01.460 --> 15:12.440 This is a YouTube video where he talks specifically about the Medusa and I kind of follow the same process he does at least that he laid out in this video about designing new picks. 15:12.640 --> 15:26.460 So starts with sketches starts designing them you know here's what I kind of want here's what I want it to do and start you know it's a lot easier to make mistakes on pen and paper before you start making prototypes. 15:26.460 --> 15:31.400 So he started running through a couple different designs what he was kind of thinking where he wanted to go with it. 15:32.280 --> 15:38.260 Once you get to that point you can take the one you like and then you start making your own custom prototypes. 15:38.260 --> 15:56.640 You can you know get some kind of rotary tool create this yourself or you could even switch it over to computer-based modeling like CAD design go from that and then you tweak and work with your prototype until you have something that you really like which eventually ended up being the Sparrow's Medusa. 15:57.300 --> 16:11.780 And of course Lazarus you got this really beautiful artwork of this Medusa figure with the snakes and the hair and everything it's a really it's a really beautiful pick and it's also really functional when in doubt laser etching is pretty cool. 16:12.840 --> 16:29.980 So where to begin this is something that's kind of interesting or maybe you've thought of a tool or something like that so this is kind of the process I follow but it's like you know what am I trying to solve or improve upon kind of start there like start brainstorming and I found that brainstorming always works best when I'm picking. 16:30.480 --> 16:41.180 So and then ask yourself what's currently out there who's already done a lot of the work like think of Sparrows taking their own designs and then tweaking them and making them better in the dark shift expansion. 16:41.560 --> 16:53.000 Then you get to the design and drawing phase then you start doing prototypes and testing and then you know you repeat that until you're happy with how your prototypes are and then you move to the production phase. 16:53.460 --> 17:30.760 So this is something I did a few years ago when I when I came up with this crazy idea like I wanted something sort of like a lock pick wallet card that was more than a one-time use like there's some that are good like tool makes a great one I like that once you break it out you can actually put on a keychain it's useful and there's some that you know they're definitely one-time use they're still good they work in a pinch but I wanted something that was like reusable and durable and stuff like that and I was trying to think of you know the spy type stuff so that's when I came up with like lock pick And I did the same processes before I even followed Lock Noob, 17:30.760 --> 17:33.400 but it was like, I'm going to draw this out, you know. 17:33.460 --> 17:35.040 This is definitely a hybrid tool. 17:35.040 --> 17:37.420 It stiffens my collar and it picks locks. 17:37.420 --> 17:43.300 And then I started taking actual collar stays and cutting them up and trying to make useful picks out of them. 17:43.540 --> 17:47.420 At that point, I started, I reached out to my brother-in-law, who is a machinist. 17:47.420 --> 17:51.520 We started cutting them up and trying them and we started making them. 17:51.520 --> 17:58.900 And you can see these are like Mark 1 and Mark 2 prototypes where I had really sharp lines and things like that. 17:58.900 --> 18:00.060 And it wasn't really smooth. 18:00.060 --> 18:02.180 And, you know, that S-rake looks really dorky. 18:02.180 --> 18:05.540 And I started tweaking the S-rake and then the diamond pick just looks ridiculous. 18:05.540 --> 18:07.320 And so I worked on that. 18:07.340 --> 18:11.260 So still realize this is the first time I ever did something like this. 18:11.260 --> 18:19.360 It's kind of like, OK, it may not be good at both things, but it's an interesting little spy gadget, what have you. 18:20.020 --> 18:23.580 So let's say you do that, get your prototypes working the way you want it. 18:23.580 --> 18:25.700 Now it's time for manufacturing and production. 18:25.840 --> 18:29.540 So I usually get my my raw materials from McMaster Car. 18:29.540 --> 18:30.780 I like their website. 18:30.780 --> 18:31.860 You can order metal from there. 18:31.860 --> 18:36.300 It's very specific on the type, the gauge, the dimensions. 18:36.740 --> 18:40.860 You pay more for it, but it's actually been pretty good for me. 18:40.940 --> 18:47.900 As far as production, you can either design these all yourself if you have that kind of time or what I like to do, I actually pay someone. 18:47.900 --> 18:50.200 I have a metal shop that does precision laser. 18:50.200 --> 18:51.420 I can give them my CAD drawings. 18:51.420 --> 18:53.080 I can give them the metal. 18:53.260 --> 18:58.780 And then they just charge me for thickness and laser runtime. 18:58.900 --> 19:00.540 So it's fairly affordable. 19:01.060 --> 19:03.620 And then as far as shipping, I've done it both ways. 19:04.560 --> 19:07.540 You know, you could have like a Google Forms or a Google Sites type thing. 19:07.540 --> 19:10.300 And once you fill it out, it sends you to a PayPal button. 19:10.300 --> 19:13.120 PayPal handles all the shipping and postage and stuff like that. 19:13.120 --> 19:14.700 It works pretty well. 19:16.560 --> 19:23.140 So when I did my Lockpick Caller stays, I did do a crowdfunding through Kickstarter, and it was definitely a learning experience. 19:23.140 --> 19:26.820 There's some pros and cons, but, you know, this is all my opinion on it. 19:27.060 --> 19:30.620 You know, what's nice is it's a great platform to get your stuff out there. 19:30.940 --> 19:33.820 It handles all the campaigning, the deadlines. 19:33.820 --> 19:36.260 It reaches out to the buyers securely. 19:36.380 --> 19:38.740 They handle all the processing and stuff. 19:38.740 --> 19:39.800 It's great. 19:39.800 --> 19:41.500 There are some cons to it. 19:42.660 --> 19:44.860 Basically, you know, there's taxes. 19:44.860 --> 19:47.920 No matter how you do this, you should be paying taxes, right? 19:47.940 --> 19:57.960 If you make more than you make, if you, from your backers, get up to $20,000 raised, they give you tax forms. 19:57.960 --> 20:00.700 Otherwise, they're like, you take care of it yourself. 20:00.840 --> 20:07.680 Also, they're completely, they can't be held liable in any way if you don't fulfill on payments or things like that. 20:07.680 --> 20:12.440 And then, you know, when the campaign ends and you're funded, you don't immediately get the money. 20:12.440 --> 20:17.700 It could be anywhere from one to four weeks, depending, because they're gathering money from the backers on your behalf. 20:18.940 --> 20:24.800 And then, you know, so my advice, you know, figure out your design, your manufacturing, your production first. 20:25.180 --> 20:30.260 Do not ever use funds for your own research and development and figuring out mistakes. 20:30.260 --> 20:33.680 Because I don't know how thin your margins are if you're doing a crowdfunding. 20:33.680 --> 20:39.040 But if they're thin and then you're using that money to figure out your mistakes, you're going to have a bad time. 20:39.040 --> 20:41.280 So and then always be responsive. 20:41.440 --> 20:46.500 Reach out to people, you know, have a Twitter presence, whatever, and make sure you fulfill commitments. 20:47.500 --> 20:50.580 So these are my lock pick collar stays I designed. 20:50.580 --> 20:53.820 These are actually the DEF CON 27 ones that I did. 20:53.820 --> 20:59.560 I did some like a limited edition, like run of them and did some laser etching. 20:59.560 --> 21:01.800 So when in doubt, you know, lasers. 21:03.500 --> 21:06.740 So current projects that I'm working on, I kind of only have one right now. 21:06.740 --> 21:10.380 I've had a bit more time because of COVID-19 and things like that. 21:10.500 --> 21:11.820 But a little bit of backstory. 21:11.940 --> 21:19.680 My wife and I moved into a new house in December and all of the internal doors had like different locks on them. 21:19.680 --> 21:27.280 Some of them were like the small flathead screwdrivers, some were like the pushpin and some were even like cheap Kwikset handles. 21:27.280 --> 21:29.780 And I was like, why are you putting this inside a house? 21:29.920 --> 21:32.740 And my kids would like lock these and close the door. 21:32.740 --> 21:36.040 So I got to the point where I was always carrying around a Sparrows Minijim with me. 21:36.040 --> 21:44.660 And then sometimes it would be that Kwikset and I was like, OK, I pull out my, you know, my RCS jackknife or whatever and I pick it open because I didn't have the key to it. 21:44.660 --> 21:49.140 I eventually replaced the doorknobs and we ordered, you know, the little screwdriver keys for it. 21:50.320 --> 21:59.980 But I kind of got thinking like it'd be nice to have like a bypass tool that was like, you know, I can jim, but I can also use it to like Kwik pick or jiggle open things. 22:00.160 --> 22:05.060 Also, I didn't want to carry a traveler's hook around in my pocket because that's really sharp and uncomfortable. 22:05.600 --> 22:06.100 So. 22:06.760 --> 22:07.300 All right. 22:07.300 --> 22:08.540 So let's take this process. 22:08.540 --> 22:10.000 This is where I'm currently at. 22:10.140 --> 22:13.980 I definitely wanted a bypass tool, something that I could latch slip or Lloyd with. 22:13.980 --> 22:15.580 I want a small form factor. 22:15.580 --> 22:21.860 I wanted something that I could take on an airplane if I needed like there wasn't anything sharp or bladed. 22:21.860 --> 22:26.320 It was under seven inches, reusable, durable, versatile, things like that. 22:27.260 --> 22:29.360 So I started looking at what was currently available. 22:29.360 --> 22:30.560 You know, we have your mini jim. 22:30.560 --> 22:39.280 I started thinking about common keys, you know, your CH751s and then auto jigglers, which you can use for more than just cars. 22:39.340 --> 22:41.600 Also, the wafer picks that we showed earlier. 22:41.640 --> 22:46.040 I started thinking about the TSA007 because that's the most common TSA key. 22:46.300 --> 22:48.620 And then like a shank or decoder type thing. 22:49.760 --> 22:51.640 And then we go to the design phase. 22:51.880 --> 22:53.520 So I'm a pen and paper kind of guy. 22:53.520 --> 22:58.340 What's nice about this is you can actually put the lock pick tools directly on the paper and trace it out. 22:58.340 --> 23:00.140 It's much easier than free handing it. 23:00.140 --> 23:04.820 So I started sketching out the ideas, started thinking about the different kind of tools that I wanted. 23:05.260 --> 23:07.580 And then at that point, I switched over to CAD. 23:07.600 --> 23:10.200 Now I've done both LibreCAD, which is an open source. 23:10.440 --> 23:12.140 You can tell it's open source. 23:12.140 --> 23:14.480 Then I've also used Autodesk Fusion 360. 23:14.660 --> 23:15.440 It's great. 23:15.440 --> 23:18.360 It seems like it's a lot more developed. 23:18.500 --> 23:22.480 It is a paid service, but you can get it through like a student one. 23:22.480 --> 23:27.120 Or they do have a startup license if you make less than a hundred thousand type thing. 23:29.040 --> 23:32.660 So I started designing it and it was really intuitive. 23:32.660 --> 23:37.040 I mean, I watched a couple of YouTube videos and some Pluralsight courses on how to use it. 23:37.040 --> 23:40.000 It really got me going pretty quick. 23:40.000 --> 23:46.820 And so I designed a, you know, I took a mini gem on the one side and then I wanted like a double sided wafer pick. 23:46.820 --> 23:52.480 And then I built in a little finger well, because I think it's important that tools are comfortable in the hand, you know, work on ergonomics. 23:52.900 --> 24:01.600 And then at that point, you can extrude it out to the width and everything that you want and then start working with the designs and stuff like that. 24:01.620 --> 24:02.700 So that's what I did. 24:02.880 --> 24:04.460 And then I designed three more. 24:05.000 --> 24:07.500 And these are my Mark 1 prototypes. 24:07.680 --> 24:13.380 And I put a hole in it because I was thinking, you know, maybe we want a lanyard hole or put this on a key chain or something like that. 24:13.380 --> 24:19.060 And so at the top, working our way down, we have our CH751 and we have our double sided wafer pick. 24:19.140 --> 24:29.340 Then the next two are auto jigglers that you could use as a double sided auto jiggler or kind of like a dull, kind of a shallower half diamond pick. 24:29.820 --> 24:32.680 You can't see it too well, but I did try to add serrations. 24:32.680 --> 24:39.000 My next one I need to, my next designs, I actually need to tweak this a little bit. 24:39.000 --> 24:43.860 Kind of standardize the size of the mini gym side and things like that. 24:45.700 --> 24:47.820 I will say something about serrations. 24:47.820 --> 24:50.080 If you do put serrations in, they are nice. 24:50.080 --> 24:51.580 Make sure they're dull serrations. 24:51.580 --> 24:56.140 And the way I found that works pretty well for that is half circles with lines connecting them. 24:56.180 --> 24:57.040 They're really nice. 24:57.040 --> 24:59.220 You can fill them, but they don't cut into you. 24:59.220 --> 25:01.160 Don't do the sawtooth serrations. 25:01.320 --> 25:03.420 So something you should think about. 25:04.160 --> 25:07.320 So at this point, I have my Mark 1 prototypes. 25:07.460 --> 25:10.320 I did a batch of about a hundred of them. 25:10.320 --> 25:14.520 Well, no, I did a batch of like 40 sets or so. 25:14.720 --> 25:16.540 I sent them out to a couple people. 25:16.540 --> 25:21.060 I still have quite a few, but you can see a few things that I want to make some changes on. 25:21.060 --> 25:25.400 There was a little, in the wafer pick, you can see a little half circle that was cut out there. 25:25.400 --> 25:27.160 That was just a mistake by the manufacturer. 25:27.160 --> 25:30.180 And you can see that the serrations didn't really come through. 25:30.180 --> 25:32.320 I didn't have a fine enough laser going. 25:32.320 --> 25:36.400 A couple ideas that I scrapped was like the TSA-007. 25:36.420 --> 25:44.220 The reason why is this is in 31 thousandths of an inch or 0.787 millimeter steel. 25:44.260 --> 25:49.400 And the way the TSA-007 is set up, it's more like a Z-shaped keyway. 25:49.400 --> 25:50.560 It just wasn't feasible. 25:50.560 --> 25:53.060 However, the CH-751 works great. 25:53.060 --> 25:54.580 It works perfect. 25:54.580 --> 25:56.060 I'm not going to change anything with that. 25:56.060 --> 25:56.960 I really like it. 25:56.960 --> 26:03.820 Also, I did decide to get rid of the decoder, because if I want this to be TSA-safe, I can't have a sharp spike on it. 26:04.680 --> 26:08.620 So next steps, I'm going to standardize the jim dimensions across all of them. 26:08.620 --> 26:10.320 I'm going to fix that weird circle. 26:10.520 --> 26:13.500 Change the pick profile on the wafer pick. 26:13.520 --> 26:17.600 You'll notice at the point, there's actually two peaks on the top and the bottom. 26:17.600 --> 26:19.000 It makes it just a bit too thick. 26:19.000 --> 26:21.140 So I'm going to change those dimensions a little bit. 26:21.400 --> 26:24.400 And then, you know, deeper, more pronounced serrations. 26:27.200 --> 26:28.160 All right. 26:28.560 --> 26:30.340 So kind of what I just said here. 26:30.340 --> 26:33.040 Keep improving prototypes, because I'm not happy how they are yet. 26:33.040 --> 26:38.660 But I do recommend you send them out to trusted friends who will give candid feedback. 26:38.740 --> 26:44.440 Don't send it out to people who are only positive, like, oh, this is so great. 26:44.440 --> 26:46.120 You're going to make a million dollars off of this. 26:46.120 --> 26:47.360 So clever of you. 26:47.480 --> 26:50.160 Send out to people who, like, know what they're talking about. 26:50.160 --> 26:51.860 Like, I can see the value of this. 26:51.860 --> 26:53.060 Here's something I would change. 26:53.060 --> 26:54.700 Here's how it feels in my hand. 26:54.700 --> 26:58.540 This is really valuable because then you're getting the feedback you want. 26:58.540 --> 27:02.640 If you're doing a crowdfunding type thing, you're not spending money on figuring this out. 27:02.640 --> 27:04.460 You know, I'm paying this up front. 27:04.640 --> 27:05.440 Whatever. 27:05.960 --> 27:07.360 Raw materials manufacturing. 27:07.360 --> 27:08.580 I've already covered that. 27:08.580 --> 27:09.500 Things I like to do. 27:09.500 --> 27:16.040 And then once you're happy, is this a point where you want to reach out to lock pick companies and look at some kind of a collaboration? 27:16.600 --> 27:18.080 Sparrows, I've reached out to them before. 27:18.080 --> 27:19.900 They seem pretty good to work with. 27:20.520 --> 27:23.080 You know, I don't have any negative feelings against them. 27:23.080 --> 27:27.200 I decided not to go with them, just make it on my own. 27:27.340 --> 27:31.800 But I know other people have had success with it and been happy with it. 27:31.800 --> 27:34.160 And I, you know, more power to them. 27:35.120 --> 27:36.140 Let's see. 27:36.920 --> 27:40.920 Yeah, I've already talked about how I hire a metal shop to laser cut them for me. 27:40.920 --> 27:51.180 I send them the CAD files and they're really good with CAD and they can, like, find out the most, the best layout to get the most out of my sheet metal and stuff and calculate costs and things like that. 27:51.360 --> 27:52.400 And then distribution. 27:52.400 --> 27:54.840 I mean, are you going to send this domestic? 27:54.840 --> 27:56.020 Are you going to send international? 27:56.280 --> 28:00.200 One thing I discovered is I had all these international buyers in my caller states. 28:00.200 --> 28:01.920 Like, is this going to be customs friendly? 28:01.920 --> 28:04.200 And I didn't consider it and said, you know what? 28:04.200 --> 28:08.920 Yep, I could probably make a lot more money, but I'm going to cover customs because I don't want to be a jerk. 28:09.620 --> 28:14.480 But that's kind of the point you get to, you know, it's like I want to make something good. 28:14.480 --> 28:15.880 I want people to be happy. 28:16.180 --> 28:17.960 Yeah, some people are going to think it's dumb. 28:17.960 --> 28:18.980 They don't have to buy it. 28:18.980 --> 28:20.920 Some people are going to think, hey, this is kind of cool. 28:20.920 --> 28:22.400 This is this is clever. 28:22.400 --> 28:28.460 I mean, it's something I might throw in my wallet or, you know, I like this kind of hybrid tool. 28:28.460 --> 28:29.680 It's really interesting. 28:29.960 --> 28:32.520 So that's that's kind of where I'm at. 28:33.160 --> 28:36.680 And that is my talk, pretty much. 28:36.960 --> 28:38.220 I'm on Discord. 28:38.400 --> 28:39.080 I go by Didymus. 28:39.080 --> 28:40.080 I'm also on Twitter. 28:40.080 --> 28:44.580 If you want to send me a DM, I think they'll be open for a little while, but same handle. 28:44.580 --> 28:48.180 And if you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them as best I can. 28:48.180 --> 28:55.140 But, you know, I'm curious to see what what kind of hybrid PhysTech tools you might have out there, what ideas you might have. 28:55.920 --> 29:00.520 And yeah, if you have any questions, feel free to reach out and thanks for taking the time. 29:00.520 --> 29:05.320 So with that, I will say thanks and enjoy the rest of the con.