[00:01.450 --> 00:02.710] Claudia is yours. [00:03.230 --> 00:08.670] Thank you. Hi everyone, my name is Claudia Osagie and we're going to talk about Burnout today. [00:08.670 --> 00:11.370] So let me first start sharing my slides. [00:12.150 --> 00:16.230] One second. As some of you guys have probably seen this talk before, [00:16.230 --> 00:22.570] just note that this material also contains today's talk, that means, has new stuff in it. [00:22.570 --> 00:26.310] So I'm looking forward to sharing this with you guys. [00:26.750 --> 00:28.710] So let's dive into this. [00:28.710 --> 00:32.990] Now, the first thing to note is that this might be an emotional talk for you guys. [00:32.990 --> 00:39.670] So if you are starting to feel like heavy emotions or you need to take a pause or whatnot like that, [00:39.670 --> 00:45.790] I recommend doing the following steps, which is to take six breaths within the one minute. [00:45.790 --> 00:50.330] So breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth or vice versa. [00:50.490 --> 00:54.730] Do that six times within a minute and that should help calm your nerves. [00:54.730 --> 00:59.810] It is a good trick to have when you feel like your anxiety is pretty high. [01:00.290 --> 01:03.750] All right. So welcome to the Art of Balancing a Burnout Talk. [01:03.750 --> 01:11.750] If you're wondering why the art of balancing, because burnout usually happens when we're not balancing our personal life and our work life. [01:11.870 --> 01:16.530] On top of that, it also happens when we don't take care of ourselves. [01:16.690 --> 01:19.310] So let's dive in, shall we? [01:21.950 --> 01:25.310] So if you don't know who I am, my name is Claudia Osagie once again. [01:25.310 --> 01:30.570] I'm the VP of Strategy over at Point Three Security. And when I'm not that, I'm an ethical hacker advocate. [01:30.570 --> 01:32.870] In other words, I'm trying to push for rights for us. [01:32.870 --> 01:36.090] That means changing legislation, updating it and so on. [01:36.090 --> 01:43.810] Also notifying the media if they have our image down wrong or using the wrong term, such as hacker. [01:43.810 --> 01:49.110] And so what they should be using cyber criminal for any terrible malicious acts. [01:49.110 --> 01:52.450] But also trying to do my best to also help the community. [01:52.450 --> 02:00.070] If that means pushing for mental health. Also, that means trying to bring diversity inclusion into the field a little bit more. [02:00.290 --> 02:04.830] And with that, I'm also president and co-founder of ROSAC, which is Women of Security. [02:04.890 --> 02:11.550] And when I'm not doing that, I'm also the founder of We Are Hackers, formerly known as Women Hackers. [02:11.670 --> 02:14.070] I'm also the Hacker Book Club organizer. [02:14.070 --> 02:24.610] We basically read a new book every month. And every week at Tuesday at 5 p.m. Pacific Time, we all meet virtually to talk about what we've read. [02:24.770 --> 02:30.310] Yes, the authors do attend. And yes, people mentioned in the books do attend as well. [02:30.650 --> 02:37.350] If you're wondering why it's called the Hacker Book Club, it's because we actually read books written by people within our community. [02:37.870 --> 02:41.830] And, you know, the hacker community reads them with them. So it's pretty fun. [02:41.830 --> 02:49.310] We're going to be doing the Tribe of Hackers Red Team Edition coming up next. So feel free to join us. [02:49.750 --> 02:58.170] Also, ITSP Magazine's Uncommon Journey podcaster. I do this with Phil Wiley, which I think he spoke a little bit earlier with you guys. [02:58.170 --> 03:04.790] And also Alyssa Miller. That is my website. If you want to find out anything about me, it's most likely on there. [03:04.790 --> 03:14.030] I include my personal details. My Twitter and Instagram is there. Feel free to follow or like to reach out anytime my DMs are open. [03:14.030 --> 03:23.170] Now let's dive into this stuff. I'm going to pick some scenarios for you. And these are experiences that you may have gone through. [03:23.230 --> 03:30.510] But this is usually a good way to know whether or not you are dealing with burnout or you did have burnout at one point of your time. [03:30.510 --> 03:36.890] So these examples, I want you to try to pretend that you're in this situation. [03:36.910 --> 03:41.090] So the first one I want you to think of, pretend you're driving in your car. [03:41.570 --> 03:45.830] And while you're driving in your car, you need to merge into the left lane. [03:46.290 --> 03:51.750] And at that moment, you think to yourself, should I look at my side mirror? [03:52.750 --> 03:58.590] Because maybe if I get in a car accident, I don't have to go to that place. [03:58.590 --> 04:03.910] Or I don't have to get that task done. Or I don't need to do that project. Or I don't have to have that awkward moment. [04:04.370 --> 04:08.470] I would feel so much better if I just get in a car accident. [04:09.730 --> 04:13.670] The one thing you should note is that burnout causes this feeling of being trapped. [04:13.670 --> 04:16.690] And most of these examples are going to demonstrate that. [04:17.190 --> 04:21.950] Or perhaps you're one of those people that it used to take you a few minutes to respond to an email. [04:22.070 --> 04:27.130] Now it takes 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes, now an hour, maybe a day. [04:27.130 --> 04:31.670] Maybe days, sometimes weeks to just respond to a short little email. [04:31.670 --> 04:34.730] Next thing you know, your inbox is flooded and it's overwhelming. [04:34.730 --> 04:38.730] And every time you get in your inbox, you have this feeling of being trapped. [04:38.730 --> 04:41.810] That this is all that you have and you have to do it. [04:41.810 --> 04:43.750] And you're so behind on everything. [04:43.750 --> 04:48.930] But you don't even have the energy or the rush to try to get through your emails. [04:49.950 --> 04:52.570] Or perhaps you've been in this situation before. [04:52.570 --> 04:55.190] Where you have friends and families or colleagues. [04:55.190 --> 04:57.550] They call you but you decline their call. [04:57.550 --> 04:59.270] Not because you're busy. [04:59.630 --> 05:02.850] It's because you see them as another task. [05:02.850 --> 05:05.170] As another thing that you have to complete. [05:05.170 --> 05:07.250] Or a thing that you need to get done. [05:07.470 --> 05:10.350] And you just don't have the bandwidth for it. [05:10.350 --> 05:13.130] You can't hear them talk about their emotional stuff. [05:13.130 --> 05:15.210] Because you're emotionally not doing well. [05:15.210 --> 05:17.070] Something's off about you. [05:17.210 --> 05:19.110] And you can't really do anything. [05:19.110 --> 05:22.010] And you're also concerned that they're going to ask you to do something for them. [05:22.010 --> 05:24.070] When you can't keep giving anymore. [05:24.070 --> 05:26.410] Because you're not doing well yourself. [05:28.990 --> 05:31.090] So burnout causes these feelings. [05:31.090 --> 05:35.370] Where you have sudden sadness to sudden anger. [05:35.370 --> 05:37.010] Like for example, you see a tweet. [05:37.010 --> 05:39.190] And you're like, are you kidding me? [05:39.190 --> 05:41.990] And you just get suddenly really angry. [05:41.990 --> 05:43.250] Really fast. [05:43.250 --> 05:47.870] Or you get sad by watching a commercial and there's some puppy in it. [05:47.870 --> 05:49.710] And you don't know why. [05:49.710 --> 05:52.590] But you just feel like you're hopeless. [05:52.650 --> 05:56.670] And once again, that term trap comes often. [05:57.110 --> 06:00.010] And you feel maybe empty. [06:00.090 --> 06:05.110] You might be experiencing more anxiety or depression as well. [06:05.490 --> 06:08.370] You just feel like you're all over the place emotionally. [06:08.370 --> 06:12.590] Or you just don't understand why you're reacting so harsh. [06:13.330 --> 06:14.130] Suddenly. [06:15.830 --> 06:19.590] Or perhaps you've been in a situation where, you know, something is due. [06:19.590 --> 06:23.370] But you procrastinate to the last minute because you can't focus until then. [06:23.650 --> 06:25.470] Yeah, I've been there before. [06:25.990 --> 06:27.490] Definitely in college. [06:27.530 --> 06:30.370] I'm like, you know what, I'm going to write that essay the night before. [06:30.370 --> 06:32.630] Or I'm going to stay for the exam the night before. [06:33.130 --> 06:36.410] Actually, I'm going to study like two hours before I take the test. [06:36.410 --> 06:39.590] The thing is, though, is that when you're dealing with burnout, [06:39.590 --> 06:43.110] you will do whatever you can to push out a date. [06:43.370 --> 06:45.550] So you're like, well, I don't really need to do that [06:45.550 --> 06:48.430] because I can just keep pushing it out. It's fine. [06:48.590 --> 06:50.630] So you might be late for your work. [06:50.630 --> 06:53.850] Or you might be late for trying to attend something. [06:53.850 --> 06:57.190] Or you might miss things because you don't want to be there [06:57.190 --> 06:58.850] or you just can't do it. [06:59.250 --> 07:02.290] Because once again, there's this feeling of hopelessness [07:02.290 --> 07:06.670] and you feel like overwhelmed and that you are drowning pretty much. [07:06.670 --> 07:10.930] You're just in that water just trying your best to breathe. [07:12.370 --> 07:14.730] But overall, a lot of times when people think of burnout, [07:14.730 --> 07:16.210] it's just that they feel so tired. [07:16.210 --> 07:18.870] No matter how many hours of sleep a night you get, [07:18.870 --> 07:21.950] you just feel so tired and exhausted. [07:22.250 --> 07:25.890] And it's just like you reach maybe more for caffeine. [07:25.890 --> 07:27.650] But the thing is, you just feel so tired [07:27.650 --> 07:30.630] and there's nothing you can do to change that. [07:32.770 --> 07:35.430] One of the things about burnout you should note about is [07:35.430 --> 07:37.850] it's very similar in some ways to stress. [07:37.950 --> 07:40.830] Where when you're stressed out, what do we tend to do? [07:40.910 --> 07:43.690] You might reach for, you know, to get high. [07:43.690 --> 07:45.970] You might reach to get a drink. [07:46.650 --> 07:50.370] And by a drink, maybe more than just one drink, let's be real. [07:50.970 --> 07:54.410] Or maybe you're like, you know what, I think I want to go back to smoking. [07:54.410 --> 07:56.590] Or you're smoking a little bit more. [07:57.570 --> 07:59.730] Or you're drinking a lot more caffeine. [07:59.730 --> 08:01.650] Now the thing is that when you're burned out, [08:01.650 --> 08:05.890] you're trying to compensate for the fact that you have no more energy [08:05.890 --> 08:08.750] and you feel burned out already. [08:08.750 --> 08:12.930] So how are you going to do that is by going to different things. [08:12.930 --> 08:16.390] So for example, wanting something salty or sweet. [08:16.390 --> 08:19.050] So snacking a lot more than usual. [08:19.110 --> 08:23.430] Or the fact that you crave cigarettes a lot more often. [08:23.430 --> 08:26.110] Or getting high is something that you need to do [08:26.110 --> 08:28.950] at the end of the day to just feel better. [08:28.950 --> 08:32.370] Or perhaps drinking a lot more than usual. [08:33.290 --> 08:35.830] Or also drinking lots of caffeine. [08:35.830 --> 08:37.850] So one thing that I'll definitely tell you is that [08:37.850 --> 08:41.770] when I know that I'm starting to do too much, [08:41.770 --> 08:43.790] I tend to crave more caffeine. [08:43.790 --> 08:47.610] So I'll drink like five cups of tea versus just two cups of tea. [08:47.630 --> 08:49.950] And that usually lets me know that I'm entering [08:49.950 --> 08:53.850] like some sort of burnout phase if I don't take care of myself. [08:53.950 --> 08:57.250] But also snacking is something that we do when we're stressed. [08:57.250 --> 09:00.810] We binge eat. Some of us. Or we don't eat at all. [09:00.850 --> 09:02.690] Instead, we go to other substances. [09:05.150 --> 09:07.890] Overall, burnout just feels kind of like this image [09:07.890 --> 09:09.830] where you're just like, I just can't do this. [09:09.830 --> 09:12.910] I can't do this. I need a break. [09:13.030 --> 09:17.030] I need to take time off. I can't focus. I can't do anything. [09:17.130 --> 09:19.810] I just feel like I'm not myself anymore. [09:21.670 --> 09:25.870] Overall, burnout, how it feels, it's like a battery. [09:25.870 --> 09:28.430] You're like a device. You're like your cell phone. [09:28.430 --> 09:32.010] But you haven't charged it for quite some time and it's dying. [09:32.010 --> 09:34.450] And it's on red and whatnot. [09:34.750 --> 09:37.630] That's what kind of burnout feels. It's like you have this battery, [09:37.630 --> 09:39.930] but it's kind of depleted. [09:42.230 --> 09:47.590] I want to start diving into, now you've seen these examples, [09:47.590 --> 09:52.150] and hopefully, or maybe, they might resonate with you. [09:52.150 --> 09:56.090] It's good to see if something connects with you. [09:56.090 --> 09:58.830] That's the first step to making sure you get better [09:58.830 --> 10:02.250] or take the preventative steps as possible to get better. [10:02.290 --> 10:05.550] The first thing I want to let you guys know is that I'm not a therapist, [10:05.550 --> 10:07.670] but I have dealt with burnout. [10:08.270 --> 10:11.310] The first time I dealt with burnout, [10:11.310 --> 10:13.710] and here comes a personal story, [10:14.270 --> 10:18.670] was back in 2013. I did Teach for America. [10:18.710 --> 10:21.150] I was supposed to be a special ed teacher. [10:21.850 --> 10:24.430] When I first started, the thing is that [10:24.430 --> 10:28.030] how it works is that you go to school for like four weeks [10:28.690 --> 10:31.630] before you start being an official teacher. That's right. [10:31.630 --> 10:34.230] You probably have had no experience with kids at all [10:34.230 --> 10:37.890] and you haven't ever taken courses on being a teacher, [10:37.890 --> 10:41.390] but for those four weeks, they try to train you in every single way possible [10:41.390 --> 10:45.530] how to be a full-time professional teacher. [10:46.810 --> 10:50.630] The thing is that once that training was over, [10:50.630 --> 10:53.570] I went into Oakland School District [10:53.570 --> 10:55.830] in the East Side. [10:55.830 --> 10:59.550] One of the things was that I was stationed at one school [10:59.550 --> 11:01.970] and I had a caseload of 20 students, [11:01.970 --> 11:04.050] and students that actually witnessed [11:04.950 --> 11:07.890] their parents being stabbed multiple times [11:08.490 --> 11:11.490] or having kids that have undiagnosed [11:11.490 --> 11:14.710] mental health issues, but they didn't know [11:14.710 --> 11:18.170] what to do with them in the system, so they just put them in special ed [11:18.170 --> 11:22.130] when they don't have dyslexia or any of those things. [11:22.130 --> 11:24.110] The thing was that they weren't getting proper [11:24.110 --> 11:27.430] mental health coverage or anything like that. [11:28.610 --> 11:31.250] And then a few months down the road, [11:32.410 --> 11:33.970] at the same time, [11:33.970 --> 11:36.930] I had to go to another school district, [11:36.930 --> 11:39.790] not another school district, another school within the school district. [11:39.790 --> 11:42.210] So now, at a caseload of 30 students, [11:42.210 --> 11:44.530] now it's approaching 80 students. [11:44.530 --> 11:47.890] Someone who isn't licensed yet, someone who's had no training [11:47.890 --> 11:50.470] or no experience in special ed. [11:50.470 --> 11:53.690] And at the same time, every one [11:53.690 --> 11:56.430] or two days per week, I would have to go [11:56.430 --> 11:59.830] continue my education at night. [12:00.330 --> 12:02.510] And the other thing was that [12:02.510 --> 12:05.030] Teach for America didn't tell me [12:05.030 --> 12:08.610] all these things up front. So what happened [12:08.610 --> 12:11.250] was that you basically [12:11.250 --> 12:14.210] sign an IOU, which is basically [12:14.210 --> 12:17.550] if I were to leave this program within the first [12:17.550 --> 12:20.250] two years of it, I owe them anywhere [12:20.250 --> 12:23.250] from $60,000 to $80,000. As a teacher, [12:23.250 --> 12:27.250] you're making anywhere between $32,000 to $40,000. [12:27.650 --> 12:29.430] And you're barely getting by in the Bay Area [12:29.430 --> 12:31.590] paying for your rent for your apartment. [12:31.590 --> 12:35.790] So if you think about it, at that moment, I wasn't doing well [12:35.790 --> 12:38.450] because I wasn't trained to take care of kids [12:38.450 --> 12:42.110] and their mental health issues because I wasn't a psychologist. [12:42.430 --> 12:44.610] I was someone who was taught how to teach [12:44.610 --> 12:47.870] people that were dyslexic or ADD or ADHD [12:47.870 --> 12:50.510] students. And the thing was that no one [12:50.510 --> 12:53.570] taught us this and no one taught us how to take care of [12:53.570 --> 12:56.790] ourselves. So at that time, I remember [12:56.790 --> 12:59.210] I was driving in my car [12:59.210 --> 13:02.650] and I felt so stuck because I tried [13:02.650 --> 13:05.730] to get out and Teach for America said I couldn't [13:05.730 --> 13:08.730] leave. If I did, I would owe them a significant [13:08.730 --> 13:11.670] amount of money and I would go in debt. [13:11.850 --> 13:14.930] And I remember when I was driving like, okay, [13:14.930 --> 13:17.650] maybe I won't look in my side mirror because if I don't look [13:17.650 --> 13:20.510] in my side mirror, then I don't have to go [13:20.510 --> 13:23.310] to this program. I could get out and then maybe [13:23.310 --> 13:26.470] I can then find another way how to try to push [13:26.470 --> 13:28.770] for them to accept the idea of me leaving [13:29.630 --> 13:33.110] earlier from the program because I'm not doing well. [13:33.110 --> 13:36.370] And I mean, thankfully, no car hit me when I did [13:36.370 --> 13:39.290] do that. But the thing is, is that it was a realization [13:39.290 --> 13:42.310] moment. The fact that I was willing to lose my [13:42.310 --> 13:45.230] life because of debt was something [13:45.230 --> 13:48.590] that I could not believe happened. [13:48.670 --> 13:51.010] And I remember going to my parents and saying, [13:51.010 --> 13:54.210] I'm not mentally doing well. I've never felt this way [13:54.210 --> 13:57.270] before. And this is the first time I've ever heard the [13:57.270 --> 14:00.350] term burned out. It got so bad that [14:00.350 --> 14:03.350] there was no support. And when I went to approach them, [14:03.350 --> 14:06.270] they make me feel guilty for how I felt [14:06.270 --> 14:09.470] saying, don't you care about your kids? But the thing [14:09.470 --> 14:12.550] was that they kept using the term kids instead of students [14:12.550 --> 14:15.290] to remind us that by quitting, we're [14:15.290 --> 14:18.470] quitting all the people who are [14:18.470 --> 14:21.530] failing ourselves and them and that no [14:21.530 --> 14:24.410] one's going to watch over them. And it's your fault. It was [14:24.410 --> 14:27.650] constantly your fault when in reality, they didn't teach us anything [14:27.650 --> 14:30.450] and they were just putting in this program, fixing [14:31.050 --> 14:33.890] a basically a very, very broken school system [14:33.890 --> 14:37.190] with a bandaid that didn't help anyone. [14:37.210 --> 14:40.070] And I just remember just at that [14:40.070 --> 14:42.870] moment, I had to leave and I quit. [14:43.090 --> 14:45.870] And when I quit, I was they then [14:45.870 --> 14:49.050] put a lawsuit against me, forcing me to pay [14:49.050 --> 14:51.650] more than $10,000 for leaving for [14:51.650 --> 14:54.930] health reasons. And I and [14:54.930 --> 14:57.990] those are the things that I want you to know is that [14:57.990 --> 15:00.990] with burnout, when you leave unchecked and you don't [15:00.990 --> 15:03.830] have support, it puts you into a really, really [15:03.830 --> 15:07.090] bad place where it can take you many, many months [15:07.090 --> 15:10.030] to sometimes years to get over and to get [15:10.030 --> 15:13.010] back to normal. So I just wanted to [15:13.010 --> 15:15.890] share that with you is that don't let burnout dictate your [15:15.890 --> 15:18.890] life. You've got to invest in yourself when you know [15:18.890 --> 15:21.990] that something is wrong. Here are the symptoms. Here are the [15:21.990 --> 15:25.670] things that you can do. Okay, so let's go to the next thing. [15:27.230 --> 15:28.130] Another thing to remind [15:28.130 --> 15:31.070] yourself is that if you're feeling burned out, you should [15:31.070 --> 15:33.850] go see a doctor. And the reason for that is they should test [15:33.850 --> 15:37.070] you for your vitals. So for example, [15:37.070 --> 15:39.890] getting your blood checked when you're feeling low in energy [15:39.890 --> 15:43.090] is probably a good thing because sometimes that's a sign of having [15:43.090 --> 15:45.930] low iron or low vitamin D. So I highly [15:45.930 --> 15:49.230] recommend you guys getting checked out on those kind of things. [15:49.230 --> 15:52.310] So do go see a doctor, get your vitals checked if you [15:52.310 --> 15:55.210] can, just to make sure that there's nothing else wrong [15:55.210 --> 15:58.490] because sometimes people that are burned out low in energy, [15:58.490 --> 16:01.290] there's something else happening in their body. So remember, [16:01.290 --> 16:04.950] mental health is totally connected to your body and so forth. [16:06.090 --> 16:07.110] So what is [16:07.110 --> 16:10.210] burnout? So burnout is a state of emotional, physical, [16:10.210 --> 16:13.570] mental exhaustion caused by an excessive prolonged stress. [16:13.570 --> 16:16.390] It occurs when you feel overwhelmed, emotionally drained [16:16.390 --> 16:19.690] and unable to meet constant demands. Now, [16:19.690 --> 16:22.530] there is a quiz right there for you. The [16:22.530 --> 16:25.430] burnout index, which is wonderful. [16:25.610 --> 16:28.490] But I have to let you guys know that if you love your job and [16:28.490 --> 16:31.450] you love what you do, chances are that quiz isn't going to work really well [16:31.450 --> 16:34.710] for you. It tends to work better for those that are [16:34.910 --> 16:37.510] a little bit skeptical about whether or not they like their job [16:37.510 --> 16:40.530] or don't like their job. I highly recommend checking out. [16:40.530 --> 16:43.390] It's a good way to kind of check to see if you are [16:43.390 --> 16:46.510] already there. Now, the thing to [16:46.510 --> 16:49.550] note about COVID-19 I want to talk to you guys about is because [16:49.550 --> 16:52.730] even though burnout is something that us in the hacker community [16:52.730 --> 16:55.670] have dealt with before, COVID-19 [16:55.950 --> 16:58.650] with COVID-19, it puts on a whole different [16:58.650 --> 17:02.670] side where you have emotional burnout as well. [17:02.690 --> 17:04.670] So emotional burnout with COVID-19, [17:04.670 --> 17:07.930] these are usually the signs that you get. [17:07.930 --> 17:10.630] I don't know about you, but what happened was [17:10.630 --> 17:13.630] that right when COVID-19 started coming about, [17:15.250 --> 17:16.770] I didn't feel burned [17:16.770 --> 17:19.630] out at all before then, but I started feeling [17:19.910 --> 17:23.330] a little bit... I don't know how to describe it. [17:23.570 --> 17:25.810] I just didn't feel good [17:25.810 --> 17:28.710] in a sense. What happened was that [17:28.710 --> 17:31.630] I went to RSA conference in San Francisco [17:31.630 --> 17:34.790] this year, and I decided just [17:34.790 --> 17:37.150] to be on the safe side that I would stay at home [17:37.150 --> 17:40.070] and basically kind of just [17:40.070 --> 17:43.250] make sure that no one gets it in case if I carried it [17:43.250 --> 17:46.290] or anything like that. And I was like, okay, 12th day, I'm like, [17:46.290 --> 17:48.890] all right, I think I'm okay. [17:50.490 --> 17:52.710] That changed drastically. [17:52.810 --> 17:55.050] By the day 13, [17:55.050 --> 17:57.930] suddenly I felt like as if there was a hand on my chest [17:57.930 --> 18:01.150] putting down pressure. And I remember [18:01.150 --> 18:03.750] it just felt very weird. [18:03.750 --> 18:07.570] And then I got really lethargic and I got headaches, [18:07.570 --> 18:09.730] like body aches everywhere. [18:09.950 --> 18:13.350] And I was just like, okay, this is weird. [18:13.350 --> 18:16.450] How could I have gotten this? And I guess I got it from RSA [18:16.450 --> 18:18.690] and everything like that. But I remember [18:19.490 --> 18:21.990] having to try to call a doctor at that time [18:21.990 --> 18:25.330] because you couldn't get checked out unless you had a [18:26.010 --> 18:28.030] pre-existing condition, which [18:28.030 --> 18:30.930] I did not fit those terms. So I remember calling [18:30.930 --> 18:33.630] around, asking to get tested. And it [18:34.210 --> 18:36.790] took three hours, but no one really knew where [18:36.790 --> 18:40.010] for me to get tested. Not even the doctors, not even my insurance, [18:40.010 --> 18:42.850] not even the emergency room at that time. And I just remember [18:42.850 --> 18:45.650] just being like, this is terrible. We have nothing set up. [18:47.950 --> 18:49.150] And at the point [18:49.150 --> 18:51.770] of being sick for like five days, symptoms went away. [18:51.910 --> 18:54.850] And then a couple days later, a new symptom came in, which was [18:54.850 --> 18:57.890] just this dry, dry cough for about five weeks [18:57.890 --> 19:01.090] out. And still [19:01.090 --> 19:04.570] at that time, though, I kind of figured [19:04.570 --> 19:07.670] at that point, like way before, when I started getting the [19:07.670 --> 19:10.370] symptoms of body aches and everything, I was like, [19:10.370 --> 19:13.430] okay, I need to revisit my will. And then other things, [19:13.430 --> 19:16.270] I couldn't sleep because all I was thinking was like, is there any chance [19:16.270 --> 19:19.450] that my parents got it? And I'm [19:19.450 --> 19:22.350] pretty sure maybe some of you guys also have been freaking out [19:22.350 --> 19:25.550] about someone else, your loved ones, getting this. And it does [19:25.550 --> 19:28.430] keep you up at night. And it's really hard because you're also [19:28.430 --> 19:32.190] having to work through the emotions with yourself. [19:32.210 --> 19:34.390] It's not something like, oh, you can call a therapist [19:34.390 --> 19:37.050] because a lot of therapists right now are full. [19:37.570 --> 19:40.370] And so it's really hard at this moment. And, you know, [19:40.370 --> 19:42.810] I just want you guys to know you're not alone. [19:44.190 --> 19:46.450] And please wear a mask. I cannot [19:46.450 --> 19:48.890] push that enough. Please wear a mask because [19:48.890 --> 19:52.390] it is not something you want to get. And it's definitely something that [19:52.390 --> 19:55.350] you don't want to give to someone else, even if you don't show any [19:55.350 --> 19:58.390] symptoms, because it does sneak up on you. Like I [19:58.390 --> 20:01.270] said, I didn't feel anything until the 12th, 13th day [20:02.050 --> 20:03.790] of nothing. So [20:04.270 --> 20:07.610] please be careful by wearing masks and, you know, [20:07.610 --> 20:10.510] try to get your, convince your friends and family and colleagues [20:10.510 --> 20:13.410] to also wear masks because I'm not kidding you, it's [20:13.410 --> 20:16.370] not fun to go with. It took about two and a half [20:16.370 --> 20:19.570] months to get back to normal. So be careful [20:19.570 --> 20:23.130] with each other. Love each other and everything possible. [20:23.130 --> 20:25.750] Please wear a mask. So let's go into the next thing. [20:26.290 --> 20:28.830] So usually when we go to like how to prevent [20:28.830 --> 20:32.450] burnout, usually people recommend, you know, exercise, [20:32.450 --> 20:34.850] eat a balanced diet, practice good sleep [20:34.850 --> 20:38.110] habits, ask for help. But the thing is, is that at the end of the day is that [20:38.110 --> 20:41.050] exercise is wonderful. However, [20:41.050 --> 20:43.910] your gyms are closed or maybe for you, you [20:43.910 --> 20:46.330] can't really go walking around because [20:46.330 --> 20:49.810] your health is in jeopardy. So [20:49.810 --> 20:52.790] I do recommend like, you know, listen to music, find some other ways [20:52.790 --> 20:55.690] to find exercise. There's plenty of YouTube videos [20:55.690 --> 20:58.830] to try to do that. Eating a balanced diet is also very [20:58.830 --> 21:01.870] hard when you're burned out because the, remember when I said [21:01.870 --> 21:04.810] when you're stressed, you're going to probably stress eat. So you're [21:04.810 --> 21:07.670] going to go for like the salty sweet things or [21:07.670 --> 21:10.690] you might not even want to eat. Like you have, [21:10.690 --> 21:13.670] you don't crave any food and that does happen. [21:13.670 --> 21:16.630] So you want to do is kind of keep kind of a record of [21:16.630 --> 21:19.650] how much calories you're taking in and making sure you hit [21:19.650 --> 21:22.850] your correct amount of calories. And I hate tracking calories [21:22.850 --> 21:25.530] and you shouldn't have to do that. But if you're one of those people [21:25.530 --> 21:28.030] that like you're, you're really struggling to eat, [21:28.590 --> 21:31.550] do keep basically track of your calories, making [21:31.550 --> 21:34.490] sure you've hit it at least because when you have low calories, you're more [21:34.490 --> 21:37.390] susceptible to having a lower immune system. So it's [21:37.390 --> 21:39.830] really smart to like try to make sure that you're eating [21:39.830 --> 21:42.950] proper amount of calories, but also make sure [21:42.950 --> 21:45.470] that it's healthy. We know what's healthy, right? [21:45.770 --> 21:49.210] It's not candy or junk food. So just remember that. [21:49.510 --> 21:51.970] Practice good sleep habits. It's very hard [21:51.970 --> 21:54.630] because like I said earlier is that [21:54.630 --> 21:57.830] dealing with COVID-19, the fears of losing [21:57.830 --> 22:01.230] someone or you giving to someone and they die, [22:01.230 --> 22:03.770] it's something that's really hard or not [22:03.770 --> 22:06.710] knowing when things are going to change because humans [22:06.710 --> 22:09.810] are kind of silly in some ways because we feel like [22:09.810 --> 22:12.630] we could pretty much predict every day. We can predict [22:12.630 --> 22:15.710] that we can go on a vacation about three or four months. Nothing's [22:15.710 --> 22:18.750] going to happen. The thoughts don't even cross our mind. But now [22:18.750 --> 22:21.870] we're in a situation where we don't even know what's going to happen the next [22:21.870 --> 22:24.810] day. And because of that, that can cause us to have [22:24.810 --> 22:27.730] insomnia. It can make us even feel more stressed out, more [22:27.730 --> 22:30.930] anxious. It can also cause episodic [22:30.930 --> 22:33.830] depression as well. So it's really important to [22:33.830 --> 22:36.910] try to remember is to try to stay as happy [22:36.910 --> 22:40.010] as possible during this hard time. And [22:40.010 --> 22:42.970] there are ways how to do it. One trick that I do is [22:42.970 --> 22:45.550] I think of three things I'm grateful for [22:45.550 --> 22:48.850] first thing in the morning and when I go to bed and switch [22:48.850 --> 22:51.950] up, don't do the same ones. But that really does [22:51.950 --> 22:54.890] help because it reminds you that you have something that's good in your [22:54.890 --> 22:57.930] life. And that's the thing that we need to be reminded of more [22:57.930 --> 23:01.130] today than ever before because it seems like the world's on fire. [23:01.130 --> 23:04.730] Asking for help is something I can still do no matter what, [23:04.730 --> 23:07.490] which is great. All right, so let's dive [23:07.490 --> 23:10.310] into first the self-awareness. So the difference between stress [23:10.310 --> 23:13.450] and, you know, burnout is there's two different [23:13.450 --> 23:16.210] things. And I like to use this example often. [23:16.270 --> 23:19.370] When you're stressed out, you're like, OK, I'll feel better if I [23:19.370 --> 23:22.130] take a bubble bath or I'll feel better if I do some yoga [23:22.130 --> 23:25.090] or I'll feel better if I have that glass of wine. [23:25.490 --> 23:28.510] When you're burned out, you can do all those [23:28.510 --> 23:31.590] things and more and you still don't feel any [23:31.590 --> 23:34.510] different. So that's the difference. Now, self-awareness [23:34.510 --> 23:37.630] is the hardest part. The good news is that you now know of [23:37.630 --> 23:40.750] the term burnout, which is great because by knowing [23:40.750 --> 23:43.470] what the word is and the symptoms, you're [23:43.470 --> 23:46.610] able to have a better idea if you're entering that [23:46.610 --> 23:49.590] zone. So the ones I tend to [23:49.590 --> 23:52.750] find most often is when I'm [23:52.750 --> 23:55.650] doing my inbox. If it takes me longer than [23:55.650 --> 23:58.210] 10 minutes to respond to an email and I'm not [23:58.210 --> 24:01.350] busy, that's a sign. No matter how much [24:01.350 --> 24:04.470] hours of sleep I get, that's a sign. When I'm drinking [24:04.470 --> 24:07.630] more caffeine, that's a sign. And when [24:07.630 --> 24:10.510] I decide I want to have another glass of [24:10.510 --> 24:13.510] wine or a couple more, that's [24:13.650 --> 24:16.470] a sign. These are all types of [24:16.470 --> 24:19.370] signs that you can realize from all those previous [24:19.370 --> 24:22.290] examples. The other thing is knowing that your emotions feel kind of all over [24:22.290 --> 24:25.090] the place a little bit. What's really important is to [24:25.090 --> 24:28.870] try to identify if you're feeling trapped or you feel overwhelmed. [24:29.750 --> 24:31.370] That's going to be the first step [24:31.370 --> 24:34.150] because once you have that self-awareness that you're entering [24:34.150 --> 24:37.190] into a burnout phase, you start [24:37.190 --> 24:40.270] realizing immediately that these are the preventive ways that you can [24:40.270 --> 24:43.110] do and prevent it. Also, there are ways [24:43.110 --> 24:47.050] how to reduce it significantly and fast. [24:47.990 --> 24:49.250] So the first thing I always [24:49.250 --> 24:52.410] tell people is to journal because the thing is that we're not able [24:52.410 --> 24:55.330] sometimes to listen what's going on in our own head and our own [24:55.330 --> 24:58.310] body and how we're feeling deep down inside because let's be [24:58.310 --> 25:01.370] real, we are kind of [25:01.370 --> 25:04.590] at a point where when we're not feeling well, we put on the TV [25:04.590 --> 25:06.890] or we listen to music or we [25:07.790 --> 25:10.490] go on social media or we do those [25:10.490 --> 25:13.270] kind of things or read a book. The thing is we're constantly [25:13.270 --> 25:16.290] escaping from what's knowing what's actually happening on in [25:16.290 --> 25:19.410] here. So journaling is really good and I recommend [25:19.410 --> 25:22.470] doing it by hand because it's something that is a little bit more [25:22.470 --> 25:25.290] therapeutic versus typing if you can. [25:25.590 --> 25:28.450] So here you get to see my journal. [25:29.150 --> 25:31.030] Little prints, of course. [25:31.030 --> 25:34.410] What I do is I tend to journal at least once [25:34.570 --> 25:37.470] a week and I don't have any music [25:37.470 --> 25:40.910] playing. I need to have my own space to do so. [25:41.370 --> 25:43.130] And usually it's when the pups are [25:43.130 --> 25:45.330] sleeping, to be honest. [25:45.830 --> 25:49.290] But journaling is really good because what happens is that when you write [25:49.290 --> 25:52.310] in there and you go back in your previous pages, you'll [25:52.310 --> 25:55.290] find trends and patterns. And we [25:55.290 --> 25:58.230] love trends and patterns, right, in InfoSec. And so when you're [25:58.230 --> 26:01.430] able to pick up on those trends and patterns, you're able then to realize [26:01.430 --> 26:04.110] you have a situation and you need to deal with it. [26:04.110 --> 26:07.050] One of the things that I realized when I was dealing with burnout [26:07.050 --> 26:10.210] or felt like I was getting close to burnout, I kept [26:10.210 --> 26:12.970] seeing the term trapped or felt like [26:13.490 --> 26:16.510] pretty much it was the word trap that kept showing up in a couple [26:16.510 --> 26:19.770] of them. And so I realized, OK, I need to do something [26:19.770 --> 26:22.390] about that. So it's really important to journal, [26:22.390 --> 26:25.670] recall a diary, whatever works for you. [26:25.850 --> 26:28.410] The thing is that this is a time where you need to know [26:28.410 --> 26:31.770] what's going on emotionally for you, especially if you can't see a [26:31.770 --> 26:34.610] therapist at this time. At least keeping [26:34.610 --> 26:37.090] some sort of record with yourself. And I do recommend [26:37.090 --> 26:39.850] trying to do it daily if you can. If not, [26:39.850 --> 26:43.650] weekly is totally fine on that front. [26:44.130 --> 26:46.290] Now, the other thing that I tend to do is I do [26:46.610 --> 26:49.130] a break. I take a break from InfoSec at least [26:49.130 --> 26:52.270] once a week. For one day a week, I [26:52.270 --> 26:55.310] take a break from my devices. So [26:55.310 --> 26:58.310] phones off, computers off, and I will [26:58.310 --> 27:01.090] do anything that's not InfoSec related. If that means [27:01.090 --> 27:04.170] volunteering, that means volunteering. If that means [27:04.170 --> 27:07.210] going for a hike for the day, that means going [27:07.210 --> 27:10.170] for a hike for the day. If that means visiting family, that [27:10.170 --> 27:13.350] means visiting family. Or if you ever wanted to learn [27:13.350 --> 27:16.390] how to paint or draw, this is the perfect time to do so. [27:16.390 --> 27:19.270] But taking one day off from InfoSec is really, really important [27:19.270 --> 27:21.830] for you to start trying to get that balance [27:21.830 --> 27:24.290] and to keep that balance there. [27:25.190 --> 27:28.250] And if you are one of those people that you can't stay away [27:28.250 --> 27:31.090] from your devices in case of loved ones contacting you or [27:31.090 --> 27:34.190] whatnot, that's okay. One of the things [27:34.190 --> 27:37.050] that I tend to do is that I will let them know [27:37.050 --> 27:40.310] that I'm going to be taking a break between these hours and in case [27:40.310 --> 27:43.150] of an emergency that you reach me, this is where they can contact [27:43.150 --> 27:46.250] me. It's really important to do that, to let [27:46.250 --> 27:49.410] them know so that they're not worried about you at this time. [27:49.590 --> 27:52.190] But doing it every week is really good, even if it's just [27:52.190 --> 27:55.130] for four hours. Still, it's very [27:55.130 --> 27:58.250] good because you want to do preventative. And yes, you have [27:58.250 --> 28:00.890] to take a break from InfoSec Twitter. [28:00.910 --> 28:04.450] I know it's hard. Believe me, it is hard. [28:04.450 --> 28:06.390] But you have to do it once a week. [28:07.570 --> 28:10.350] And no, I don't mean you have to throw your phone on the ground [28:10.350 --> 28:13.270] or whatnot. Don't be silly. Even though there's [28:13.270 --> 28:15.910] times where I read something on Twitter and I'm just like, [28:15.910 --> 28:19.270] are you kidding me? But anyway, [28:19.270 --> 28:22.170] the other thing to do besides journaling is to keep [28:22.330 --> 28:25.250] a to-do list. So I have... [28:25.250 --> 28:29.250] I have a to-do list. And basically what I do is that I [28:29.250 --> 28:32.310] write down everything that I need to do, any [28:32.310 --> 28:35.310] tasks that I need to be on top of, and I write [28:35.310 --> 28:38.430] it down. And this could be personal stuff. This could be work stuff. [28:38.430 --> 28:41.850] But the thing is, I take this list everywhere I go in the house. [28:42.470 --> 28:44.430] Also, if I was on the road, [28:44.430 --> 28:46.830] I'd take it on the road. The reason for that is because [28:47.590 --> 28:50.370] it kind of empties out space in your head so you're able [28:50.370 --> 28:53.210] to think about other things and become more connected to have that [28:53.210 --> 28:56.110] self-awareness of what you're going [28:56.110 --> 28:59.270] through. So it's really therapeutic to write [28:59.270 --> 29:02.290] down all these things so you feel like you have more space in your head. [29:02.290 --> 29:05.110] It unclutters it. It's also really good [29:05.110 --> 29:08.290] if you are someone who struggles to sleep at night. Having a [29:08.290 --> 29:11.410] to-do list is going to be really helpful for you. Once again, it's something that [29:11.410 --> 29:14.550] has to be written by hand. [29:14.550 --> 29:17.630] And there's a reason for that because sometimes we have a to-do [29:17.630 --> 29:20.330] list on our phones or on [29:20.330 --> 29:23.030] our laptops. And that's great and everything, but the thing is, [29:23.030 --> 29:26.370] you know when you're about to fall asleep and you're [29:26.370 --> 29:29.710] like, okay, I'm going to go to sleep. And then suddenly you're like, [29:29.710 --> 29:31.970] oh my god, I forgot to send that email. [29:32.210 --> 29:35.590] Or, oh, that was such a great idea. I need it. [29:36.310 --> 29:38.490] And then you just keep thinking about it over and over [29:38.490 --> 29:41.370] and over. And this is the reason why it's harder [29:41.370 --> 29:44.430] for you to fall asleep. So one thing to do is have a to-do [29:44.430 --> 29:47.370] list. So have it by your bed in case in the middle [29:47.370 --> 29:50.290] of the night you wake up like, oh my god, I forgot to do something. Just write it down [29:50.290 --> 29:53.290] and you'll do it in the morning. Review that list in the morning [29:53.290 --> 29:56.350] too when you're ready. That means, you know, when [29:56.350 --> 29:59.130] you're drinking your coffee or your tea or afterwards. [29:59.130 --> 30:02.410] Whenever you feel like you're in that space to remember what you need [30:02.410 --> 30:05.330] to do. But it's very good because when I first started [30:05.330 --> 30:08.370] I was very, very overly anxious [30:08.970 --> 30:11.470] thinking that this is going to be [30:11.470 --> 30:14.290] hard. Because it is overwhelming when you see [30:14.290 --> 30:17.310] that list. But think about this. When I first [30:17.310 --> 30:20.550] started it was five pages long usually. And that's [30:20.550 --> 30:23.530] when I realized I got to fix something about myself. [30:23.530 --> 30:26.210] And also I need to fix my situation [30:26.210 --> 30:29.970] that I'm in. So now it's at one page. [30:29.970 --> 30:32.390] So it's always that one page now. And that's [30:32.390 --> 30:35.530] the thing. It's just be on top of it. And plus it feels really good to cross [30:35.530 --> 30:38.130] out things. You're just like, yes! [30:39.070 --> 30:41.390] So I really recommend this. Plus your [30:41.390 --> 30:44.330] memory might not be so great sometimes. So it's really good to [30:44.330 --> 30:45.870] remember it that way. [30:47.190 --> 30:50.370] Now, be a good manager is one of those things I like to tell people [30:50.370 --> 30:53.570] because if you're a bad manager [30:53.570 --> 30:56.370] you're going to make your people feel terrible [30:56.370 --> 30:59.330] too. What that means is you should [30:59.330 --> 31:02.450] be doing everything possible to understand [31:02.450 --> 31:04.890] mental health is an issue. [31:04.970 --> 31:08.350] Even if it looks invisible. And if you're wondering what do you mean [31:08.350 --> 31:11.810] by invisible? For example, if I had a broken arm, I would have a [31:11.810 --> 31:14.530] cast on. You would see I have a broken arm and you would understand [31:15.210 --> 31:17.250] that there's something wrong. The thing is [31:17.250 --> 31:20.330] with mental health is it's not visible usually. [31:20.330 --> 31:23.590] And because it's not visible, they think [31:23.590 --> 31:26.710] that you are making it up sometimes or they just [31:26.710 --> 31:29.850] don't consider it as a high priority versus because they can't [31:29.850 --> 31:33.110] see it. And so that is one of the issues with mental [31:33.110 --> 31:35.010] health and for offices to take it seriously [31:35.010 --> 31:38.710] is because it's invisible. It's an invisible danger. [31:39.310 --> 31:41.450] And so the thing is also to note about [31:41.450 --> 31:44.710] the invisible danger. I'm very glad [31:44.710 --> 31:47.570] that COVID-19 is forcing companies to finally [31:47.570 --> 31:50.290] recognize mental health, especially burnout. [31:50.330 --> 31:53.390] If you're a good manager, what you should do is make sure you give [31:53.390 --> 31:56.550] one mental health break day per month. And I ask [31:56.550 --> 32:00.350] to do it on a Friday or Monday. There's a reason for that. [32:00.430 --> 32:02.790] It gives them a chance to have a three-day weekend [32:02.790 --> 32:05.890] because we love three-day weekends. It's a good time for us [32:05.890 --> 32:08.530] to catch up on all the things you want to. [32:08.710 --> 32:11.710] So doing something like that is really beneficial to your employees. [32:11.710 --> 32:15.530] It's giving one day off per month for everyone. [32:15.670 --> 32:16.530] And you can call these [32:18.510 --> 32:20.970] self-worth days or something. I don't know. [32:20.970 --> 32:23.650] You can figure something out. But basically you give an option saying [32:23.650 --> 32:26.230] you can either do anything that will [32:26.950 --> 32:30.090] help you in your career or you can take the day off to relax [32:30.090 --> 32:33.250] and recharge. That's really good. The other thing is having [32:33.250 --> 32:35.510] one-on-ones weekly with your [32:36.270 --> 32:39.110] employees. About 15 minutes to [32:39.110 --> 32:41.690] 20 minutes per week should be good enough. [32:41.690 --> 32:44.670] It's a good time to visit all the things that [32:44.670 --> 32:48.110] you have to do, all the assignments, and work with [32:48.110 --> 32:50.770] your manager to prioritize which things are more [32:51.970 --> 32:54.010] of the things that need to get done [32:54.010 --> 32:57.130] or put more attention to. So it helps with prioritization [32:57.130 --> 32:59.910] but also is a good note to know how the [32:59.910 --> 33:03.230] employee is doing. With burnout [33:03.230 --> 33:06.190] and all of that, this is also a good way to note also [33:06.190 --> 33:09.150] if your employee isn't responding [33:09.150 --> 33:10.970] to emails as fast as usual [33:12.190 --> 33:15.230] and they seem a little bit different [33:15.230 --> 33:18.370] emotionally on a phone call or something like that, [33:18.370 --> 33:21.010] this might be a good time to remind them like, you know, [33:21.010 --> 33:23.950] you can take time off if you need to take time off. [33:24.470 --> 33:26.910] It's important for you to do that. [33:27.030 --> 33:29.730] Another thing that you can do is to enforce [33:30.510 --> 33:33.510] a no meetings day policy per week. [33:33.510 --> 33:36.230] So every week at a certain day, no one can book [33:36.230 --> 33:39.390] meetings on that day for anyone on the team. [33:39.390 --> 33:41.950] So this is a day kind of like to catch up on anything or to [33:41.950 --> 33:44.770] focus on certain things that you need to get focused on. [33:44.770 --> 33:48.010] So no meetings, so you're able to focus on whatever you need to [33:48.010 --> 33:50.450] get done for that week. It's really beneficial. [33:50.450 --> 33:53.370] So those are some good tips I have for you. And also, [33:53.370 --> 33:55.210] just be a good person. [33:55.910 --> 33:58.150] If you do have an employee that comes to you saying, [33:58.670 --> 34:02.050] I'm not doing so well emotionally, I need to take some time off, [34:02.050 --> 34:05.310] don't discourage it. Don't guilt them into [34:06.070 --> 34:08.030] well, what about your team? [34:08.330 --> 34:11.750] That's not your response. That's not the right response to do. [34:11.750 --> 34:14.470] The right response is to be like, okay, what days [34:14.470 --> 34:18.270] in the next one to two weeks work best for you? [34:18.270 --> 34:21.350] And to remember that if the person needs [34:21.350 --> 34:24.090] to take a break, you don't have to always [34:24.610 --> 34:27.230] let them tell you why they need to [34:27.230 --> 34:30.250] if they need to. Otherwise, don't ask [34:30.250 --> 34:33.530] right now at this time because chances are it's an emotional thing. [34:34.030 --> 34:35.830] I think that's really important is to [34:35.830 --> 34:39.410] try to remind your employees that it's [34:39.410 --> 34:41.870] okay for them to take a break if they need to. [34:42.990 --> 34:45.110] So now we're going to talk about how to bounce back. [34:45.110 --> 34:48.090] Those are all preventative things that you can do if you're starting to feel [34:48.090 --> 34:50.550] like you're getting burned out or you want to avoid burnout. [34:50.790 --> 34:54.850] Now we're going to talk about what to do if you're already burned out. [34:55.850 --> 34:56.850] You have to take time off. [34:56.850 --> 34:59.910] I hate to break it to you, but you have to take time off. [34:59.910 --> 35:03.210] That means you have to take at least three [35:03.210 --> 35:06.090] business days off to recharge your batteries. [35:06.170 --> 35:09.430] How bad it is, that means like a whole week. [35:09.630 --> 35:12.090] And the reason I say three business days [35:12.090 --> 35:14.970] is because you want to take it near your weekend so you actually get [35:14.970 --> 35:17.410] five days off, right? [35:17.590 --> 35:21.050] It's really important for you to get the time off that you need [35:21.050 --> 35:24.210] to recharge. And I know that we tend to feel guilty about [35:24.210 --> 35:27.050] taking time off because our team members [35:27.050 --> 35:30.110] need us and all that. But let me remind you is that when [35:30.110 --> 35:33.330] you are burned out, you're not 100% you. [35:33.690 --> 35:36.030] You're not even close [35:36.030 --> 35:39.010] to the percentage of usual you. And because [35:39.010 --> 35:41.470] of that, taking time off is really important because [35:41.470 --> 35:44.530] you need to recharge your batteries so you can go back to being [35:44.530 --> 35:48.490] who you usually are. And this is good for your team. [35:49.010 --> 35:50.870] Taking time off is so important on this [35:50.870 --> 35:53.790] and other things I know that we stress out is like, well, [35:53.790 --> 35:56.850] I'm going to come back with so many things and it's going to be overwhelming. [35:57.130 --> 35:59.790] I'm going to give you some tricks. So the first trick I have [35:59.790 --> 36:02.850] for you is to make sure that when you [36:02.850 --> 36:06.190] have your out of office message, [36:06.190 --> 36:09.230] put it as your date two days later [36:09.230 --> 36:12.010] than what you're actually returning. So for example, if I'm returning [36:12.010 --> 36:15.210] on the 14th, I'm going to let people know that I'm coming back on the [36:15.670 --> 36:18.270] 16th. This gives me two days of having to [36:18.270 --> 36:21.310] respond to emails. The other thing that you should do is [36:21.310 --> 36:24.850] put a hold on your calendar for the first two days that you're back. [36:24.910 --> 36:27.210] So no meetings at all. Just block it [36:27.210 --> 36:29.870] so then you're able to catch up on everything. [36:30.210 --> 36:33.670] If you can do two days, great. If only one day, just do it. [36:33.670 --> 36:36.850] It's going to help you so then you're able to bounce back. [36:36.910 --> 36:39.810] I did take my first vacation ever for one week [36:39.810 --> 36:41.850] in the past two and a half years. [36:42.510 --> 36:45.770] And I made sure to block that and it worked really, [36:45.770 --> 36:48.190] really well because I did return to like, I think it was [36:48.190 --> 36:51.590] definitely over a thousand emails. But it was definitely stressful [36:51.590 --> 36:54.530] when I came back. But I also felt better so I was able to respond [36:54.710 --> 36:57.530] a lot faster. When you do come back though, [36:57.530 --> 37:00.590] I do recommend in the afternoon on your first day [37:00.590 --> 37:03.650] back is to message your teammates and ask if there's anything [37:03.650 --> 37:06.870] that is urgent that needs to be done. So you're able [37:06.870 --> 37:09.730] to kind of prioritize and get everything done [37:09.730 --> 37:12.710] and also you don't get lost in your inbox. It's also important to let [37:12.710 --> 37:15.590] people know is to CC you [37:15.590 --> 37:18.730] in everything and to keep it on one communication [37:18.730 --> 37:21.810] channel. Meaning, if you have something that I need to be aware [37:21.810 --> 37:24.750] of, keep it via email. Don't do it by Slack [37:24.750 --> 37:27.890] because having multiple places to check for communication [37:27.890 --> 37:31.270] around things while you're gone is really stressful [37:31.270 --> 37:34.310] for everyone because things are, you're probably [37:34.310 --> 37:37.170] not going to catch that. It's going to be too much because [37:37.170 --> 37:40.090] there's just so much different types of communication. So just keep [37:40.090 --> 37:43.090] one long email chain for each thing. [37:43.230 --> 37:46.010] Also having a project management system is really important [37:46.010 --> 37:48.850] too to help you be able to prioritize [37:48.850 --> 37:52.230] and know what is on your plate. Now before you take [37:52.230 --> 37:55.810] the time off, just note for the first few days or that week before, [37:55.810 --> 37:58.850] you will probably have to work a little bit extra to make sure that you have that [37:58.850 --> 38:01.850] zero inbox if you can, but also be on top of any [38:01.850 --> 38:04.670] assignments that are kind of needed to be done within the week. [38:05.370 --> 38:07.810] Those are my tips that I have for taking time off. [38:08.970 --> 38:10.630] Also learning to say [38:10.630 --> 38:14.050] no. So when I had that to-do list the first time [38:14.050 --> 38:16.710] it was five pages long, I realized I had to learn [38:16.710 --> 38:19.650] how to say no because [38:21.150 --> 38:22.970] constantly over juggling every [38:22.970 --> 38:25.670] different thing is very exhausting. [38:25.970 --> 38:29.070] So it's really important to learn when is a good time [38:29.070 --> 38:31.730] to kick on something new, when is not. [38:31.990 --> 38:34.910] I know that sometimes when we have a job or whatnot, [38:34.910 --> 38:38.010] we need to accept assignments, but if it's not part of [38:38.010 --> 38:41.030] your job, you do not need to accept those assignments. And if they give you [38:41.030 --> 38:44.490] problems with that, let me tell you how you do this. [38:44.490 --> 38:46.650] Keep an email chain. Keeping your [38:47.550 --> 38:49.990] paper trail of all the emails is [38:49.990 --> 38:53.050] really important. And I do recommend that also when you tell your [38:53.050 --> 38:55.790] manager you need to take time off, send out a quick email saying [38:55.790 --> 38:58.070] thanks for meeting with me and talking to me about this. [38:58.070 --> 39:02.290] I really appreciate that and I'll take off these days. [39:02.290 --> 39:04.910] You want to keep a record of all your conversations [39:04.910 --> 39:07.710] if you definitely have a terrible workplace [39:08.230 --> 39:11.270] because this will protect you in case HR needs to get involved [39:11.270 --> 39:14.530] for you to be like, where are you talking about? You knew about my issue. [39:14.530 --> 39:16.610] Here's the paper trail. Here you go. [39:17.310 --> 39:19.750] Also, whenever someone puts a task under you [39:19.750 --> 39:22.690] that's not part of your job, remind them politely. [39:22.690 --> 39:26.030] Hey, I already have too many things and this is not usually part of my job. [39:26.030 --> 39:28.670] I recommend you reaching out to this person instead. [39:29.130 --> 39:32.310] So hopefully that person is your manager. So you have to learn to say no. [39:32.370 --> 39:34.750] And it is hard if you're a high performer because [39:34.750 --> 39:37.930] the chances are if you're a high performer, they're going to be like, oh great, [39:37.930 --> 39:40.410] you got that done. Here's some more stuff for you. [39:40.410 --> 39:43.790] It's a great reward, right? So just keep [39:43.790 --> 39:46.650] that in mind. I will definitely [39:46.650 --> 39:49.490] also share with you is that if you're someone who [39:49.490 --> 39:52.850] feels like there's no one on the team [39:52.850 --> 39:55.990] that looks like you or acts [39:55.990 --> 39:58.830] like you on your team, that there's a part of you that [39:58.830 --> 40:01.670] feels like you don't belong and you constantly have to prove [40:01.670 --> 40:04.670] over and over that you belong to be there, you're going to get [40:04.790 --> 40:07.630] a little bit more burned out because chances are they're going to [40:07.630 --> 40:10.770] always see you as someone else. [40:11.190 --> 40:13.750] And if you're wondering what do you mean by that? Okay, so [40:14.410 --> 40:16.750] I had one of my jobs. [40:17.550 --> 40:20.190] I was, you know, a marketing manager [40:20.190 --> 40:22.930] or whatnot. But every time I would go into a meeting, [40:24.190 --> 40:26.550] the executives would turn to me and say, [40:26.550 --> 40:29.070] Chloe, you got that? You got the notes down? And [40:29.070 --> 40:32.190] I remember just being like, why am I taking down [40:32.190 --> 40:35.330] notes? And you're like, oh, can you go get a glass of water for me? [40:35.330 --> 40:38.170] Oh, can you get me a cup of coffee for me? And the thing [40:38.170 --> 40:41.130] was that I kept doing those things because I knew [40:41.130 --> 40:43.950] that I could lose my job if I didn't or if I [40:43.950 --> 40:47.290] caused a problem because they were already seeing me as that [40:47.290 --> 40:50.750] woman who causes problems if I were to speak out. [40:50.830 --> 40:53.270] So if you're in that situation, please note that there [40:53.270 --> 40:56.110] are plenty of companies out there that would love to have you [40:56.110 --> 40:58.390] and you should not be working there. [40:59.890 --> 41:02.110] And what I meant on that one is [41:02.110 --> 41:05.250] like some of us we deal with, we have to be perfect because [41:05.250 --> 41:08.350] we're worried we're going to lose our job. So we accept whatever [41:08.350 --> 41:11.510] treatment, we accept the extra job duties on top [41:11.510 --> 41:14.570] of a job that isn't supposed to have anything to do with those [41:14.570 --> 41:17.610] things. We're constantly on being bombarded [41:17.610 --> 41:20.410] with projects from our teamwork. I mean, [41:20.410 --> 41:23.770] our team, basically our team members, [41:23.770 --> 41:27.110] we constantly have to accept it because if we don't, [41:27.110 --> 41:29.150] we're really worried we're going to lose our job. [41:29.410 --> 41:32.550] And that's a real fear, especially right now with the economic [41:32.550 --> 41:35.670] situation. We're constantly like, I have to do whatever [41:35.670 --> 41:39.030] I can to keep my job. I have to do everything I can to keep my job [41:39.030 --> 41:42.070] because there are hardly any jobs out there and I can't [41:42.070 --> 41:44.890] afford that right now. I have to make sure I take care of someone [41:44.890 --> 41:47.910] at this time. I can't handle [41:47.910 --> 41:50.310] all this. I have to do whatever I can. [41:51.750 --> 41:53.710] Please note, you're in InfoSec. [41:53.710 --> 41:56.710] There is definitely a shortage of personnel and there are [41:56.710 --> 41:59.590] definitely openings out there. And if you're looking for [41:59.690 --> 42:02.350] a role, DEF CON is the place, once again, [42:02.350 --> 42:05.710] to look for that. There's plenty of us that have connections [42:05.710 --> 42:08.730] that can help you get in the door. You should not be putting [42:08.730 --> 42:11.730] up with that. And if you have that fear of losing your job [42:11.730 --> 42:14.310] all the time, that means you're not working in a good [42:14.310 --> 42:18.070] collaborative environment or you have a really bad manager. [42:18.070 --> 42:20.650] And which is the case, we need to talk about, you need [42:20.650 --> 42:22.690] to start learning how to invest in yourself. [42:23.550 --> 42:26.370] One of the things about burnout is that when we're not [42:26.370 --> 42:29.210] balancing our work and personal life, it also means that we're not [42:29.210 --> 42:32.850] investing in ourselves. We're not taking care of our needs. [42:33.090 --> 42:35.230] And that's a really scary thing because if we're [42:35.230 --> 42:38.370] constantly doing everything we can bend backwards for our [42:38.370 --> 42:41.790] team members or for our families, our friends, [42:41.790 --> 42:44.350] the thing is, is that you're giving so much [42:44.350 --> 42:47.370] that you forgot to take care of you. And right now [42:47.370 --> 42:50.250] you need to invest in yourself because clearly you [42:50.250 --> 42:53.010] already are in burned out at that point. [42:53.010 --> 42:56.210] So it's really important to invest in yourself. Take some time for yourself [42:56.210 --> 42:59.610] daily. Put limits to different, [42:59.610 --> 43:02.150] if you need to call someone and be like, okay, I can talk [43:02.150 --> 43:05.290] for like this and this time, but I need to take it. [43:05.290 --> 43:08.110] I need to make sure that I get off the phone at this time [43:08.110 --> 43:11.330] for personal reasons. Then just let the person know ahead of time [43:11.330 --> 43:14.170] about that. It's really important that we start [43:14.170 --> 43:17.270] really respecting other people. If they [43:17.270 --> 43:19.990] seem like I can't talk right now or like I [43:19.990 --> 43:23.190] need to take a break, respect that at this time [43:23.190 --> 43:26.330] because chances are they're trying to figure out how to reinvest in themselves [43:26.930 --> 43:29.150] and your manager should invest in [43:29.150 --> 43:32.370] yourself. So if you have a manager that isn't investing in you, [43:32.370 --> 43:35.230] I want to just also let you know about that is that a good [43:35.230 --> 43:38.090] manager wants you to thrive. They want to see you go [43:38.090 --> 43:41.390] be on them. And if you don't have that type of manager, [43:41.390 --> 43:44.190] it's time to look elsewhere and [43:44.190 --> 43:47.730] you can still work at the same job, but also look on the side, [43:47.730 --> 43:50.490] reach out to some recruiters. They're always looking to [43:50.490 --> 43:53.330] help people find something and also people in the community [43:53.330 --> 43:57.030] and InfoSec Twitter. It actually helps out quite a bit. [43:57.890 --> 43:59.330] The main takeaways from this [43:59.330 --> 44:02.890] I hope you have is when you feel overwhelmed, do a device detox. [44:02.890 --> 44:05.890] Remember, you want to do more than four hours per week. [44:05.890 --> 44:08.630] Get away from InfoSec once a week. [44:08.630 --> 44:11.690] Do other things. When you feel overwhelmed, invest in yourself. [44:11.690 --> 44:14.370] That means do something that's going to make you feel happy [44:14.370 --> 44:17.450] and better because the chances are you're feeling [44:17.450 --> 44:20.570] burned out or you're getting close to being burned out is because you're not [44:20.570 --> 44:23.530] taking time for you. When you feel overwhelmed, [44:23.530 --> 44:26.550] ask for help. InfoSec Twitter is an amazing place [44:26.550 --> 44:30.070] to ask for help. Defcon is a wonderful place to ask for help. [44:30.370 --> 44:32.430] Mental Health Hackers is a wonderful place [44:32.430 --> 44:35.010] to ask for help. The thing is, [44:35.010 --> 44:38.970] I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't ask [44:38.970 --> 44:41.730] for help. And so that's really important to know [44:41.730 --> 44:45.290] is that the community has your back. They are there to support you. [44:45.510 --> 44:47.750] So ask for the help. It's okay. And I know [44:47.750 --> 44:50.610] it's scary to ask for help sometimes, but just do it because [44:50.610 --> 44:53.850] they're there for you too. When you feel overwhelmed, [44:53.850 --> 44:56.610] write it down. Remember, have a to-do list. Do your journaling. [44:56.610 --> 45:00.390] This is going to be really helpful for you. Do it by hand and paper. [45:00.530 --> 45:02.750] Please don't do your computer or your phone [45:02.750 --> 45:05.610] or whatnot like that because that is not going to help you at all [45:05.610 --> 45:08.510] because what happens is that when I pick up my phone, I'm like, [45:08.510 --> 45:11.270] I'm going to get this email done. I'm going to go to another app [45:11.270 --> 45:14.510] and then another one and then another one. Next thing you know, it's been an hour [45:14.510 --> 45:17.530] when I was only planning to spend maybe like five or ten minutes [45:17.530 --> 45:20.470] on my phone. So the thing is, make sure you do that. [45:20.550 --> 45:23.670] When you feel overwhelmed, take a break. Remember, if you are [45:24.510 --> 45:26.870] starting to feel like you're getting burned out [45:26.870 --> 45:29.550] or you are in burned out, make sure that you take at least [45:29.550 --> 45:32.630] three business days off. Also, making [45:32.630 --> 45:35.690] sure that you take a weekly day off for that [45:35.690 --> 45:39.150] device detox. That also means getting away from social media. [45:39.210 --> 45:42.770] And I just want to put out here beforehand, [45:42.770 --> 45:44.850] if you're going to take time off [45:44.850 --> 45:47.950] for work, that means you've got to get off of social [45:47.950 --> 45:50.990] media and InfoSec Twitter. That means you need [45:50.990 --> 45:53.910] to get off your devices too. So how burnout [45:53.910 --> 45:57.050] works when you want to get back to normal, [45:57.050 --> 46:00.030] you actually have to take those days off as if you are [46:00.030 --> 46:02.410] doing a huge device detox. [46:03.110 --> 46:05.370] I've done it. It works like a charm. [46:05.370 --> 46:08.110] Let me tell you, two days of just a device detox and I felt [46:08.110 --> 46:11.670] 100% almost better. So I really do recommend it. [46:11.670 --> 46:14.270] When you feel overwhelmed, put yourself first. And I want to really [46:14.270 --> 46:16.610] let you guys know about this, is that [46:17.270 --> 46:20.690] when you're not taking care of yourself, you cannot be there for others. [46:20.690 --> 46:23.570] When you're mentally not well, you cannot be mentally [46:23.570 --> 46:26.390] there to support someone else. That's why it's [46:26.390 --> 46:29.730] important, if you care about the person that you're trying to be there for, [46:29.730 --> 46:33.170] you also need to keep yourself in check and have that self-awareness [46:33.170 --> 46:36.050] and do whatever is needed to make you feel happy. [46:36.090 --> 46:38.650] And if you're wondering, I don't know what makes me happy anymore [46:38.650 --> 46:42.350] these days, write... I'm all about writing. [46:42.350 --> 46:44.730] I do a T-chart. So basically a T-chart [46:44.730 --> 46:47.630] like this. And I have one column that is [46:47.630 --> 46:50.830] things that I love about InfoSec, things that I love outside [46:50.830 --> 46:53.650] of InfoSec. And then I look over it and see [46:53.650 --> 46:56.370] what are things that I'm doing, what are things I'm not doing. [46:56.370 --> 46:59.470] And the things that used to make me happy, I try to [46:59.470 --> 47:02.390] do those things all over, or I try to learn something new. [47:02.390 --> 47:05.770] There's plenty of things to do out there. I mean, YouTube, [47:05.770 --> 47:08.390] Google, it's all there. You can find out anything and learn [47:08.390 --> 47:11.270] how to do anything these days. When you feel [47:11.270 --> 47:14.410] overwhelmed, know that you're not alone. I really want to push this [47:14.410 --> 47:17.350] forward. It is so important for you guys to know that [47:17.350 --> 47:20.290] you are not alone. There has been [47:20.290 --> 47:22.910] one part in my career where [47:22.910 --> 47:25.990] I felt very isolated from everyone [47:25.990 --> 47:28.890] because I didn't know Twitter or InfoSec really existed yet because [47:28.890 --> 47:31.850] it was my first year in InfoSec. But I remember [47:31.850 --> 47:34.810] feeling very isolated and alone and wanting to leave [47:34.810 --> 47:37.650] InfoSec permanently because I didn't know that there was [47:37.650 --> 47:41.010] such a great community here that has each other's back. [47:41.010 --> 47:43.910] And when I did find that community, oh my God, [47:43.910 --> 47:46.750] it was like as if I've seen [47:46.750 --> 47:49.690] everything like black and white and gray shades and [47:49.690 --> 47:53.110] everything and then suddenly became something like HD in color. [47:53.110 --> 47:55.990] The thing is that there are so many great organizations [47:55.990 --> 47:59.690] here and everyone has your back. At the end of the day, [48:00.310 --> 48:02.870] there are a lot more good people in the world than bad people [48:02.870 --> 48:05.450] and I try to remind that quite often. [48:06.410 --> 48:09.090] Most importantly, though, how you can tell [48:09.090 --> 48:11.990] if you're burned out is always to ask the question, [48:11.990 --> 48:15.130] am I balancing my work and personal life? If not, [48:15.130 --> 48:17.590] take the steps to fix it. If that means that [48:17.590 --> 48:21.250] you only have two devices, so for example, [48:21.250 --> 48:23.810] having two different phones, one for work, one for [48:23.810 --> 48:26.550] personal life, I highly do recommend if you can do that [48:27.030 --> 48:29.890] because what you can do is stay away from your personal [48:29.890 --> 48:32.970] device and then during the times that you usually work, [48:32.970 --> 48:35.550] you only have your work device near you. And [48:36.050 --> 48:38.910] when you're done with work for the day, take a [48:38.910 --> 48:43.130] one hour kind of like break to yourself, do whatever you need to do [48:43.130 --> 48:44.690] and then go on your personal device [48:44.690 --> 48:48.230] and take your calls, text and do all that. [48:48.450 --> 48:50.810] I do this so I separate my personal [48:50.810 --> 48:53.750] life from my work life. It's really good to try to separate [48:53.750 --> 48:56.890] the two because it does help with understanding how much balancing [48:56.890 --> 48:59.390] I'm doing. You want to make sure you're doing more [48:59.390 --> 49:03.230] personal hours or the same amount of personal hours as your work. [49:04.430 --> 49:04.850] And [49:06.010 --> 49:09.050] I just want to let you guys know, I did have burnout. [49:09.050 --> 49:11.990] I've had burnout a few times. You can definitely [49:11.990 --> 49:13.990] get back to normal [49:15.470 --> 49:17.670] with your break. It's just important to [49:18.190 --> 49:21.530] remember these preventative techniques and whatnot. [49:21.590 --> 49:24.650] And also, if you're already burnt out, now you know what to do. [49:24.750 --> 49:27.330] And if you need any help, I'm here for you. [49:27.330 --> 49:30.410] I'm also here to do Q&A for you and everything. [49:31.430 --> 49:32.970] And also, I ask for [49:32.970 --> 49:35.990] one favor from all of you guys. If you guys can take a [49:36.850 --> 49:39.530] quick screenshot copy of this page, [49:39.530 --> 49:42.430] you don't know you might be helping or saving someone else's life [49:42.430 --> 49:45.770] by simply just sharing this. It's good for you to have [49:45.770 --> 49:48.910] this wherever you go. Have it on your phone. [49:48.910 --> 49:51.630] Have it on your computer or whatnot. Send it to your loved [49:51.630 --> 49:54.310] one so then they're aware that they have this because maybe [49:54.310 --> 49:57.650] they don't need it, but maybe someone that they know or are talking to, [49:57.650 --> 50:00.630] they now know these. These are really important resources [50:00.630 --> 50:03.850] to have, especially at this time. [50:03.850 --> 50:06.530] This was a list basically provided from [50:06.530 --> 50:10.290] the CDC, so please go ahead and use it. And last but not least, [50:10.810 --> 50:12.630] I just want to also let you guys [50:12.630 --> 50:15.630] know, a lot of questions I tend [50:15.630 --> 50:18.010] to get are about drinking. How much is drinking [50:18.690 --> 50:21.570] is okay? How much is not okay? [50:21.850 --> 50:24.590] And I do recommend doing the following things, [50:24.590 --> 50:28.330] which is don't ever drink by yourself, [50:28.330 --> 50:30.630] meaning have a virtual one-on-one [50:30.630 --> 50:33.470] or be on the phone with someone else who's having a drink with you. [50:33.470 --> 50:36.550] Never drink by yourself. Set certain days as the day [50:36.550 --> 50:39.430] that you can drink and never go past two drinks [50:39.430 --> 50:42.370] for that day. Don't drink, of course, during [50:42.370 --> 50:45.430] any time of work hours, but do it [50:45.430 --> 50:48.890] in the late afternoon or evening, it's okay. [50:48.890 --> 50:51.550] So please remember, that's how you [50:51.550 --> 50:54.710] practice good drinking habits. If you want to drink, [50:54.710 --> 50:57.450] definitely on that front. And [50:57.450 --> 51:00.550] just remember, if you're drinking or you have the urge [51:00.550 --> 51:02.610] to drink a lot more and [51:03.910 --> 51:06.450] maybe it's a time for you to look for help [51:07.110 --> 51:09.430] or to tell someone about that because [51:09.430 --> 51:12.670] I know it's a hard time right now, but [51:12.670 --> 51:15.630] drinking is not going to solve that for you. If anything, it's going to [51:15.630 --> 51:18.710] make you feel worse, especially if you are burned out. [51:18.710 --> 51:21.610] I hate to break it to you, but alcohol is just going [51:21.610 --> 51:23.770] to make you feel 10 times worse [51:24.970 --> 51:27.350] afterwards because you have this drop [51:28.190 --> 51:30.970] you experience a drop of and sometimes you get [51:30.970 --> 51:34.550] experiencing like this kind of like depression symptoms. [51:34.570 --> 51:36.670] So I really recommend you not doing that. [51:37.970 --> 51:39.750] Anyway, I just want to say thank you guys for [51:39.750 --> 51:43.110] existing. If you have any questions at all, feel [51:43.110 --> 51:45.910] free to reach out to me. I am here. I'm also here to take any [51:45.910 --> 51:48.790] live Q&A. I'm going to [51:48.790 --> 51:51.730] turn off my slides so then I can [51:51.730 --> 51:54.370] you guys can, I don't know, well, we'll just [51:54.370 --> 51:55.890] I'll turn off my slides now. Hold on.