WEBVTT 00:01.450 --> 00:02.710 Claudia is yours. 00:03.230 --> 00:04.130 Thank you. 00:04.130 --> 00:08.670 Hi everyone, my name is Claudia Osagie and we're going to talk about Burnout today. 00:08.670 --> 00:11.370 So let me first start sharing my slides. 00:12.150 --> 00:13.170 One second. 00:13.170 --> 00:22.570 As some of you guys have probably seen this talk before, just note that this material also contains today's talk, that means, has new stuff in it. 00:22.570 --> 00:26.310 So I'm looking forward to sharing this with you guys. 00:26.750 --> 00:28.710 So let's dive into this. 00:28.710 --> 00:32.990 Now, the first thing to note is that this might be an emotional talk for you guys. 00:32.990 --> 00:45.790 So if you are starting to feel like heavy emotions or you need to take a pause or whatnot like that, I recommend doing the following steps, which is to take six breaths within the one minute. 00:45.790 --> 00:50.330 So breathing in through your nose and out through your mouth or vice versa. 00:50.490 --> 00:54.730 Do that six times within a minute and that should help calm your nerves. 00:54.730 --> 00:59.810 It is a good trick to have when you feel like your anxiety is pretty high. 01:00.290 --> 01:00.650 All right. 01:00.650 --> 01:03.750 So welcome to the Art of Balancing a Burnout Talk. 01:03.750 --> 01:11.750 If you're wondering why the art of balancing, because burnout usually happens when we're not balancing our personal life and our work life. 01:11.870 --> 01:16.530 On top of that, it also happens when we don't take care of ourselves. 01:16.690 --> 01:19.310 So let's dive in, shall we? 01:21.950 --> 01:25.310 So if you don't know who I am, my name is Claudia Osagie once again. 01:25.310 --> 01:28.090 I'm the VP of Strategy over at Point Three Security. 01:28.090 --> 01:30.570 And when I'm not that, I'm an ethical hacker advocate. 01:30.570 --> 01:32.870 In other words, I'm trying to push for rights for us. 01:32.870 --> 01:36.090 That means changing legislation, updating it and so on. 01:36.090 --> 01:43.810 Also notifying the media if they have our image down wrong or using the wrong term, such as hacker. 01:43.810 --> 01:49.110 And so what they should be using cyber criminal for any terrible malicious acts. 01:49.110 --> 01:52.450 But also trying to do my best to also help the community. 01:52.450 --> 01:55.010 If that means pushing for mental health. 01:55.190 --> 02:00.070 Also, that means trying to bring diversity inclusion into the field a little bit more. 02:00.290 --> 02:04.830 And with that, I'm also president and co-founder of ROSAC, which is Women of Security. 02:04.890 --> 02:11.550 And when I'm not doing that, I'm also the founder of We Are Hackers, formerly known as Women Hackers. 02:11.670 --> 02:14.070 I'm also the Hacker Book Club organizer. 02:14.070 --> 02:17.210 We basically read a new book every month. 02:17.570 --> 02:20.630 And every week at Tuesday at 5 p.m. 02:20.630 --> 02:24.610 Pacific Time, we all meet virtually to talk about what we've read. 02:24.770 --> 02:27.110 Yes, the authors do attend. 02:27.110 --> 02:30.310 And yes, people mentioned in the books do attend as well. 02:30.650 --> 02:37.350 If you're wondering why it's called the Hacker Book Club, it's because we actually read books written by people within our community. 02:37.870 --> 02:40.450 And, you know, the hacker community reads them with them. 02:40.450 --> 02:41.830 So it's pretty fun. 02:41.830 --> 02:47.510 We're going to be doing the Tribe of Hackers Red Team Edition coming up next. 02:47.510 --> 02:49.310 So feel free to join us. 02:49.750 --> 02:53.450 Also, ITSP Magazine's Uncommon Journey podcaster. 02:53.470 --> 02:58.170 I do this with Phil Wiley, which I think he spoke a little bit earlier with you guys. 02:58.170 --> 02:59.830 And also Alyssa Miller. 03:00.030 --> 03:01.170 That is my website. 03:01.170 --> 03:04.790 If you want to find out anything about me, it's most likely on there. 03:04.790 --> 03:07.430 I include my personal details. 03:07.770 --> 03:09.450 My Twitter and Instagram is there. 03:09.450 --> 03:14.030 Feel free to follow or like to reach out anytime my DMs are open. 03:14.030 --> 03:16.310 Now let's dive into this stuff. 03:17.490 --> 03:19.670 I'm going to pick some scenarios for you. 03:19.670 --> 03:23.170 And these are experiences that you may have gone through. 03:23.230 --> 03:30.510 But this is usually a good way to know whether or not you are dealing with burnout or you did have burnout at one point of your time. 03:30.510 --> 03:36.890 So these examples, I want you to try to pretend that you're in this situation. 03:36.910 --> 03:41.090 So the first one I want you to think of, pretend you're driving in your car. 03:41.570 --> 03:45.830 And while you're driving in your car, you need to merge into the left lane. 03:46.290 --> 03:51.750 And at that moment, you think to yourself, should I look at my side mirror? 03:52.750 --> 03:58.590 Because maybe if I get in a car accident, I don't have to go to that place. 03:58.590 --> 04:00.450 Or I don't have to get that task done. 04:00.450 --> 04:01.730 Or I don't need to do that project. 04:01.730 --> 04:03.910 Or I don't have to have that awkward moment. 04:04.370 --> 04:08.470 I would feel so much better if I just get in a car accident. 04:09.730 --> 04:13.670 The one thing you should note is that burnout causes this feeling of being trapped. 04:13.670 --> 04:16.690 And most of these examples are going to demonstrate that. 04:17.190 --> 04:21.950 Or perhaps you're one of those people that it used to take you a few minutes to respond to an email. 04:22.070 --> 04:27.130 Now it takes 10 minutes, maybe 30 minutes, now an hour, maybe a day. 04:27.130 --> 04:31.670 Maybe days, sometimes weeks to just respond to a short little email. 04:31.670 --> 04:34.730 Next thing you know, your inbox is flooded and it's overwhelming. 04:34.730 --> 04:38.730 And every time you get in your inbox, you have this feeling of being trapped. 04:38.730 --> 04:41.810 That this is all that you have and you have to do it. 04:41.810 --> 04:43.750 And you're so behind on everything. 04:43.750 --> 04:48.930 But you don't even have the energy or the rush to try to get through your emails. 04:49.950 --> 04:52.570 Or perhaps you've been in this situation before. 04:52.570 --> 04:55.190 Where you have friends and families or colleagues. 04:55.190 --> 04:57.550 They call you but you decline their call. 04:57.550 --> 04:59.270 Not because you're busy. 04:59.630 --> 05:02.850 It's because you see them as another task. 05:02.850 --> 05:05.170 As another thing that you have to complete. 05:05.170 --> 05:07.250 Or a thing that you need to get done. 05:07.470 --> 05:10.350 And you just don't have the bandwidth for it. 05:10.350 --> 05:13.130 You can't hear them talk about their emotional stuff. 05:13.130 --> 05:15.210 Because you're emotionally not doing well. 05:15.210 --> 05:17.070 Something's off about you. 05:17.210 --> 05:19.110 And you can't really do anything. 05:19.110 --> 05:22.010 And you're also concerned that they're going to ask you to do something for them. 05:22.010 --> 05:24.070 When you can't keep giving anymore. 05:24.070 --> 05:26.410 Because you're not doing well yourself. 05:28.990 --> 05:31.090 So burnout causes these feelings. 05:31.090 --> 05:35.370 Where you have sudden sadness to sudden anger. 05:35.370 --> 05:37.010 Like for example, you see a tweet. 05:37.010 --> 05:39.190 And you're like, are you kidding me? 05:39.190 --> 05:41.990 And you just get suddenly really angry. 05:41.990 --> 05:43.250 Really fast. 05:43.250 --> 05:47.870 Or you get sad by watching a commercial and there's some puppy in it. 05:47.870 --> 05:49.710 And you don't know why. 05:49.710 --> 05:52.590 But you just feel like you're hopeless. 05:52.650 --> 05:56.670 And once again, that term trap comes often. 05:57.110 --> 06:00.010 And you feel maybe empty. 06:00.090 --> 06:05.110 You might be experiencing more anxiety or depression as well. 06:05.490 --> 06:08.370 You just feel like you're all over the place emotionally. 06:08.370 --> 06:12.590 Or you just don't understand why you're reacting so harsh. 06:13.330 --> 06:14.130 Suddenly. 06:15.830 --> 06:19.590 Or perhaps you've been in a situation where, you know, something is due. 06:19.590 --> 06:23.370 But you procrastinate to the last minute because you can't focus until then. 06:23.650 --> 06:25.470 Yeah, I've been there before. 06:25.990 --> 06:27.490 Definitely in college. 06:27.530 --> 06:30.370 I'm like, you know what, I'm going to write that essay the night before. 06:30.370 --> 06:32.630 Or I'm going to stay for the exam the night before. 06:33.130 --> 06:36.410 Actually, I'm going to study like two hours before I take the test. 06:36.410 --> 06:43.110 The thing is, though, is that when you're dealing with burnout, you will do whatever you can to push out a date. 06:43.370 --> 06:47.750 So you're like, well, I don't really need to do that because I can just keep pushing it out. 06:47.750 --> 06:48.430 It's fine. 06:48.590 --> 06:50.630 So you might be late for your work. 06:50.630 --> 06:53.850 Or you might be late for trying to attend something. 06:53.850 --> 06:58.850 Or you might miss things because you don't want to be there or you just can't do it. 06:59.250 --> 07:06.670 Because once again, there's this feeling of hopelessness and you feel like overwhelmed and that you are drowning pretty much. 07:06.670 --> 07:10.930 You're just in that water just trying your best to breathe. 07:12.370 --> 07:16.210 But overall, a lot of times when people think of burnout, it's just that they feel so tired. 07:16.210 --> 07:21.950 No matter how many hours of sleep a night you get, you just feel so tired and exhausted. 07:22.250 --> 07:25.890 And it's just like you reach maybe more for caffeine. 07:25.890 --> 07:30.630 But the thing is, you just feel so tired and there's nothing you can do to change that. 07:32.770 --> 07:37.850 One of the things about burnout you should note about is it's very similar in some ways to stress. 07:37.950 --> 07:40.830 Where when you're stressed out, what do we tend to do? 07:40.910 --> 07:43.690 You might reach for, you know, to get high. 07:43.690 --> 07:45.970 You might reach to get a drink. 07:46.650 --> 07:50.370 And by a drink, maybe more than just one drink, let's be real. 07:50.970 --> 07:54.410 Or maybe you're like, you know what, I think I want to go back to smoking. 07:54.410 --> 07:56.590 Or you're smoking a little bit more. 07:57.570 --> 07:59.730 Or you're drinking a lot more caffeine. 07:59.730 --> 08:08.750 Now the thing is that when you're burned out, you're trying to compensate for the fact that you have no more energy and you feel burned out already. 08:08.750 --> 08:12.930 So how are you going to do that is by going to different things. 08:12.930 --> 08:16.390 So for example, wanting something salty or sweet. 08:16.390 --> 08:19.050 So snacking a lot more than usual. 08:19.110 --> 08:23.430 Or the fact that you crave cigarettes a lot more often. 08:23.430 --> 08:28.950 Or getting high is something that you need to do at the end of the day to just feel better. 08:28.950 --> 08:32.370 Or perhaps drinking a lot more than usual. 08:33.290 --> 08:35.830 Or also drinking lots of caffeine. 08:35.830 --> 08:43.790 So one thing that I'll definitely tell you is that when I know that I'm starting to do too much, I tend to crave more caffeine. 08:43.790 --> 08:47.610 So I'll drink like five cups of tea versus just two cups of tea. 08:47.630 --> 08:53.850 And that usually lets me know that I'm entering like some sort of burnout phase if I don't take care of myself. 08:53.950 --> 08:57.250 But also snacking is something that we do when we're stressed. 08:57.250 --> 08:58.230 We binge eat. 08:58.430 --> 08:59.210 Some of us. 08:59.210 --> 09:00.810 Or we don't eat at all. 09:00.850 --> 09:02.690 Instead, we go to other substances. 09:05.150 --> 09:09.830 Overall, burnout just feels kind of like this image where you're just like, I just can't do this. 09:09.830 --> 09:11.830 I can't do this. 09:11.830 --> 09:12.910 I need a break. 09:13.030 --> 09:14.610 I need to take time off. 09:14.610 --> 09:15.610 I can't focus. 09:15.610 --> 09:17.030 I can't do anything. 09:17.130 --> 09:19.810 I just feel like I'm not myself anymore. 09:21.670 --> 09:25.870 Overall, burnout, how it feels, it's like a battery. 09:25.870 --> 09:27.130 You're like a device. 09:27.130 --> 09:28.430 You're like your cell phone. 09:28.430 --> 09:32.010 But you haven't charged it for quite some time and it's dying. 09:32.010 --> 09:34.450 And it's on red and whatnot. 09:34.750 --> 09:36.050 That's what kind of burnout feels. 09:36.050 --> 09:39.930 It's like you have this battery, but it's kind of depleted. 09:42.230 --> 09:52.150 I want to start diving into, now you've seen these examples, and hopefully, or maybe, they might resonate with you. 09:52.150 --> 09:56.090 It's good to see if something connects with you. 09:56.090 --> 10:02.250 That's the first step to making sure you get better or take the preventative steps as possible to get better. 10:02.290 --> 10:07.670 The first thing I want to let you guys know is that I'm not a therapist, but I have dealt with burnout. 10:08.270 --> 10:16.750 The first time I dealt with burnout, and here comes a personal story, was back in 2013. 10:16.770 --> 10:18.670 I did Teach for America. 10:18.710 --> 10:21.150 I was supposed to be a special ed teacher. 10:21.850 --> 10:31.070 When I first started, the thing is that how it works is that you go to school for like four weeks before you start being an official teacher. 10:31.070 --> 10:31.630 That's right. 10:31.630 --> 10:45.530 You probably have had no experience with kids at all and you haven't ever taken courses on being a teacher, but for those four weeks, they try to train you in every single way possible how to be a full-time professional teacher. 10:46.810 --> 10:55.830 The thing is that once that training was over, I went into Oakland School District in the East Side. 10:55.830 --> 11:16.410 One of the things was that I was stationed at one school and I had a caseload of 20 students, and students that actually witnessed their parents being stabbed multiple times or having kids that have undiagnosed mental health issues, but they didn't know what to do with them in the system, 11:16.410 --> 11:22.130 so they just put them in special ed when they don't have dyslexia or any of those things. 11:22.130 --> 11:27.430 The thing was that they weren't getting proper mental health coverage or anything like that. 11:28.610 --> 11:39.790 And then a few months down the road, at the same time, I had to go to another school district, not another school district, another school within the school district. 11:39.790 --> 11:44.530 So now, at a caseload of 30 students, now it's approaching 80 students. 11:44.530 --> 11:50.470 Someone who isn't licensed yet, someone who's had no training or no experience in special ed. 11:50.470 --> 11:59.830 And at the same time, every one or two days per week, I would have to go continue my education at night. 12:00.330 --> 12:07.650 And the other thing was that Teach for America didn't tell me all these things up front. 12:07.650 --> 12:22.430 So what happened was that you basically sign an IOU, which is basically if I were to leave this program within the first two years of it, I owe them anywhere from $60,000 to $80,000. 12:22.430 --> 12:27.250 As a teacher, you're making anywhere between $32,000 to $40,000. 12:27.650 --> 12:31.590 And you're barely getting by in the Bay Area paying for your rent for your apartment. 12:31.590 --> 12:42.110 So if you think about it, at that moment, I wasn't doing well because I wasn't trained to take care of kids and their mental health issues because I wasn't a psychologist. 12:42.430 --> 12:48.910 I was someone who was taught how to teach people that were dyslexic or ADD or ADHD students. 12:48.910 --> 12:54.650 And the thing was that no one taught us this and no one taught us how to take care of ourselves. 12:54.730 --> 13:06.210 So at that time, I remember I was driving in my car and I felt so stuck because I tried to get out and Teach for America said I couldn't leave. 13:06.210 --> 13:11.670 If I did, I would owe them a significant amount of money and I would go in debt. 13:11.850 --> 13:21.630 And I remember when I was driving like, okay, maybe I won't look in my side mirror because if I don't look in my side mirror, then I don't have to go to this program. 13:21.630 --> 13:33.110 I could get out and then maybe I can then find another way how to try to push for them to accept the idea of me leaving earlier from the program because I'm not doing well. 13:33.110 --> 13:36.930 And I mean, thankfully, no car hit me when I did do that. 13:36.930 --> 13:39.990 But the thing is, is that it was a realization moment. 13:39.990 --> 13:48.590 The fact that I was willing to lose my life because of debt was something that I could not believe happened. 13:48.670 --> 13:52.790 And I remember going to my parents and saying, I'm not mentally doing well. 13:52.790 --> 13:55.030 I've never felt this way before. 13:55.090 --> 13:58.390 And this is the first time I've ever heard the term burned out. 13:58.450 --> 14:01.670 It got so bad that there was no support. 14:01.670 --> 14:09.030 And when I went to approach them, they make me feel guilty for how I felt saying, don't you care about your kids? 14:09.030 --> 14:22.730 But the thing was that they kept using the term kids instead of students to remind us that by quitting, we're quitting all the people who are failing ourselves and them and that no one's going to watch over them. 14:22.730 --> 14:24.150 And it's your fault. 14:24.150 --> 14:37.190 It was constantly your fault when in reality, they didn't teach us anything and they were just putting in this program, fixing a basically a very, very broken school system with a bandaid that didn't help anyone. 14:37.210 --> 14:42.870 And I just remember just at that moment, I had to leave and I quit. 14:43.090 --> 14:53.630 And when I quit, I was they then put a lawsuit against me, forcing me to pay more than $10,000 for leaving for health reasons. 14:54.010 --> 15:11.290 And I and those are the things that I want you to know is that with burnout, when you leave unchecked and you don't have support, it puts you into a really, really bad place where it can take you many, many months to sometimes years to get over and to get back to normal. 15:11.530 --> 15:16.790 So I just wanted to share that with you is that don't let burnout dictate your life. 15:16.890 --> 15:20.470 You've got to invest in yourself when you know that something is wrong. 15:20.610 --> 15:21.710 Here are the symptoms. 15:21.710 --> 15:23.450 Here are the things that you can do. 15:23.510 --> 15:25.670 Okay, so let's go to the next thing. 15:27.230 --> 15:32.090 Another thing to remind yourself is that if you're feeling burned out, you should go see a doctor. 15:32.090 --> 15:35.410 And the reason for that is they should test you for your vitals. 15:35.970 --> 15:45.270 So for example, getting your blood checked when you're feeling low in energy is probably a good thing because sometimes that's a sign of having low iron or low vitamin D. 15:45.270 --> 15:49.230 So I highly recommend you guys getting checked out on those kind of things. 15:49.230 --> 16:00.350 So do go see a doctor, get your vitals checked if you can, just to make sure that there's nothing else wrong because sometimes people that are burned out low in energy, there's something else happening in their body. 16:00.350 --> 16:04.950 So remember, mental health is totally connected to your body and so forth. 16:06.090 --> 16:08.010 So what is burnout? 16:08.210 --> 16:13.570 So burnout is a state of emotional, physical, mental exhaustion caused by an excessive prolonged stress. 16:13.570 --> 16:19.170 It occurs when you feel overwhelmed, emotionally drained and unable to meet constant demands. 16:19.250 --> 16:22.350 Now, there is a quiz right there for you. 16:22.350 --> 16:25.430 The burnout index, which is wonderful. 16:25.610 --> 16:32.350 But I have to let you guys know that if you love your job and you love what you do, chances are that quiz isn't going to work really well for you. 16:32.610 --> 16:38.890 It tends to work better for those that are a little bit skeptical about whether or not they like their job or don't like their job. 16:38.890 --> 16:40.530 I highly recommend checking out. 16:40.530 --> 16:44.490 It's a good way to kind of check to see if you are already there. 16:45.330 --> 17:02.670 Now, the thing to note about COVID-19 I want to talk to you guys about is because even though burnout is something that us in the hacker community have dealt with before, COVID-19 with COVID-19, it puts on a whole different side where you have emotional burnout as well. 17:02.690 --> 17:07.930 So emotional burnout with COVID-19, these are usually the signs that you get. 17:07.930 --> 17:23.330 I don't know about you, but what happened was that right when COVID-19 started coming about, I didn't feel burned out at all before then, but I started feeling a little bit... I don't know how to describe it. 17:23.570 --> 17:27.410 I just didn't feel good in a sense. 17:27.530 --> 17:44.570 What happened was that I went to RSA conference in San Francisco this year, and I decided just to be on the safe side that I would stay at home and basically kind of just make sure that no one gets it in case if I carried it or anything like that. 17:44.590 --> 17:48.890 And I was like, okay, 12th day, I'm like, all right, I think I'm okay. 17:50.490 --> 17:52.710 That changed drastically. 17:52.810 --> 17:59.930 By the day 13, suddenly I felt like as if there was a hand on my chest putting down pressure. 18:00.330 --> 18:03.750 And I remember it just felt very weird. 18:03.750 --> 18:09.730 And then I got really lethargic and I got headaches, like body aches everywhere. 18:09.950 --> 18:13.350 And I was just like, okay, this is weird. 18:13.350 --> 18:14.870 How could I have gotten this? 18:14.870 --> 18:17.990 And I guess I got it from RSA and everything like that. 18:17.990 --> 18:29.610 But I remember having to try to call a doctor at that time because you couldn't get checked out unless you had a pre -existing condition, which I did not fit those terms. 18:29.610 --> 18:33.470 So I remember calling around, asking to get tested. 18:33.470 --> 18:38.370 And it took three hours, but no one really knew where for me to get tested. 18:38.370 --> 18:42.070 Not even the doctors, not even my insurance, not even the emergency room at that time. 18:42.070 --> 18:44.150 And I just remember just being like, this is terrible. 18:44.150 --> 18:45.650 We have nothing set up. 18:47.950 --> 18:51.770 And at the point of being sick for like five days, symptoms went away. 18:51.910 --> 18:58.750 And then a couple days later, a new symptom came in, which was just this dry, dry cough for about five weeks out. 18:59.710 --> 19:12.530 And still at that time, though, I kind of figured at that point, like way before, when I started getting the symptoms of body aches and everything, I was like, okay, I need to revisit my will. 19:12.530 --> 19:18.950 And then other things, I couldn't sleep because all I was thinking was like, is there any chance that my parents got it? 19:19.090 --> 19:25.010 And I'm pretty sure maybe some of you guys also have been freaking out about someone else, your loved ones, getting this. 19:25.010 --> 19:26.710 And it does keep you up at night. 19:26.710 --> 19:32.190 And it's really hard because you're also having to work through the emotions with yourself. 19:32.210 --> 19:37.050 It's not something like, oh, you can call a therapist because a lot of therapists right now are full. 19:37.570 --> 19:39.330 And so it's really hard at this moment. 19:39.330 --> 19:42.810 And, you know, I just want you guys to know you're not alone. 19:44.190 --> 19:46.010 And please wear a mask. 19:46.010 --> 19:47.390 I cannot push that enough. 19:47.390 --> 19:51.070 Please wear a mask because it is not something you want to get. 19:51.070 --> 19:58.170 And it's definitely something that you don't want to give to someone else, even if you don't show any symptoms, because it does sneak up on you. 19:58.170 --> 20:03.370 Like I said, I didn't feel anything until the 12th, 13th day of nothing. 20:03.550 --> 20:14.510 So please be careful by wearing masks and, you know, try to get your, convince your friends and family and colleagues to also wear masks because I'm not kidding you, it's not fun to go with. 20:14.510 --> 20:17.970 It took about two and a half months to get back to normal. 20:17.970 --> 20:20.710 So be careful with each other. 20:20.710 --> 20:23.130 Love each other and everything possible. 20:23.130 --> 20:24.170 Please wear a mask. 20:24.170 --> 20:25.750 So let's go into the next thing. 20:26.290 --> 20:36.030 So usually when we go to like how to prevent burnout, usually people recommend, you know, exercise, eat a balanced diet, practice good sleep habits, ask for help. 20:36.030 --> 20:40.230 But the thing is, is that at the end of the day is that exercise is wonderful. 20:40.490 --> 20:49.230 However, your gyms are closed or maybe for you, you can't really go walking around because your health is in jeopardy. 20:49.530 --> 20:53.530 So I do recommend like, you know, listen to music, find some other ways to find exercise. 20:53.530 --> 20:57.150 There's plenty of YouTube videos to try to do that. 20:57.150 --> 21:04.550 Eating a balanced diet is also very hard when you're burned out because the, remember when I said when you're stressed, you're going to probably stress eat. 21:04.550 --> 21:09.530 So you're going to go for like the salty sweet things or you might not even want to eat. 21:09.530 --> 21:13.670 Like you have, you don't crave any food and that does happen. 21:13.670 --> 21:21.090 So you want to do is kind of keep kind of a record of how much calories you're taking in and making sure you hit your correct amount of calories. 21:21.090 --> 21:24.430 And I hate tracking calories and you shouldn't have to do that. 21:24.430 --> 21:36.830 But if you're one of those people that like you're, you're really struggling to eat, do keep basically track of your calories, making sure you've hit it at least because when you have low calories, you're more susceptible to having a lower immune system. 21:36.830 --> 21:43.710 So it's really smart to like try to make sure that you're eating proper amount of calories, but also make sure that it's healthy. 21:43.710 --> 21:45.470 We know what's healthy, right? 21:45.770 --> 21:47.470 It's not candy or junk food. 21:47.470 --> 21:49.210 So just remember that. 21:49.510 --> 21:50.870 Practice good sleep habits. 21:50.870 --> 22:11.910 It's very hard because like I said earlier is that dealing with COVID-19, the fears of losing someone or you giving to someone and they die, it's something that's really hard or not knowing when things are going to change because humans are kind of silly in some ways because we feel like we could pretty much predict every day. 22:11.910 --> 22:15.350 We can predict that we can go on a vacation about three or four months. 22:15.350 --> 22:16.450 Nothing's going to happen. 22:16.450 --> 22:18.350 The thoughts don't even cross our mind. 22:18.470 --> 22:22.670 But now we're in a situation where we don't even know what's going to happen the next day. 22:22.750 --> 22:25.450 And because of that, that can cause us to have insomnia. 22:25.450 --> 22:28.550 It can make us even feel more stressed out, more anxious. 22:28.970 --> 22:32.670 It can also cause episodic depression as well. 22:32.670 --> 22:39.330 So it's really important to try to remember is to try to stay as happy as possible during this hard time. 22:39.750 --> 22:41.610 And there are ways how to do it. 22:41.610 --> 22:50.470 One trick that I do is I think of three things I'm grateful for first thing in the morning and when I go to bed and switch up, don't do the same ones. 22:50.850 --> 22:55.370 But that really does help because it reminds you that you have something that's good in your life. 22:55.370 --> 23:01.130 And that's the thing that we need to be reminded of more today than ever before because it seems like the world's on fire. 23:01.130 --> 23:05.930 Asking for help is something I can still do no matter what, which is great. 23:06.450 --> 23:09.030 All right, so let's dive into first the self-awareness. 23:09.030 --> 23:14.250 So the difference between stress and, you know, burnout is there's two different things. 23:14.270 --> 23:16.210 And I like to use this example often. 23:16.270 --> 23:25.090 When you're stressed out, you're like, OK, I'll feel better if I take a bubble bath or I'll feel better if I do some yoga or I'll feel better if I have that glass of wine. 23:25.490 --> 23:32.250 When you're burned out, you can do all those things and more and you still don't feel any different. 23:32.250 --> 23:33.630 So that's the difference. 23:33.630 --> 23:35.730 Now, self-awareness is the hardest part. 23:35.730 --> 23:47.550 The good news is that you now know of the term burnout, which is great because by knowing what the word is and the symptoms, you're able to have a better idea if you're entering that zone. 23:48.450 --> 23:54.310 So the ones I tend to find most often is when I'm doing my inbox. 23:54.310 --> 24:00.430 If it takes me longer than 10 minutes to respond to an email and I'm not busy, that's a sign. 24:00.430 --> 24:03.810 No matter how much hours of sleep I get, that's a sign. 24:03.810 --> 24:07.330 When I'm drinking more caffeine, that's a sign. 24:07.330 --> 24:14.490 And when I decide I want to have another glass of wine or a couple more, that's a sign. 24:14.930 --> 24:19.950 These are all types of signs that you can realize from all those previous examples. 24:19.950 --> 24:23.750 The other thing is knowing that your emotions feel kind of all over the place a little bit. 24:23.750 --> 24:28.870 What's really important is to try to identify if you're feeling trapped or you feel overwhelmed. 24:29.750 --> 24:42.170 That's going to be the first step because once you have that self-awareness that you're entering into a burnout phase, you start realizing immediately that these are the preventive ways that you can do and prevent it. 24:42.170 --> 24:47.050 Also, there are ways how to reduce it significantly and fast. 24:47.990 --> 25:03.710 So the first thing I always tell people is to journal because the thing is that we're not able sometimes to listen what's going on in our own head and our own body and how we're feeling deep down inside because let's be real, we are kind of at a point where when we're not feeling well, 25:03.710 --> 25:12.110 we put on the TV or we listen to music or we go on social media or we do those kind of things or read a book. 25:12.110 --> 25:17.130 The thing is we're constantly escaping from what's knowing what's actually happening on in here. 25:17.250 --> 25:25.290 So journaling is really good and I recommend doing it by hand because it's something that is a little bit more therapeutic versus typing if you can. 25:25.590 --> 25:28.450 So here you get to see my journal. 25:29.150 --> 25:31.030 Little prints, of course. 25:31.030 --> 25:38.130 What I do is I tend to journal at least once a week and I don't have any music playing. 25:38.130 --> 25:40.910 I need to have my own space to do so. 25:41.370 --> 25:45.330 And usually it's when the pups are sleeping, to be honest. 25:45.830 --> 25:54.630 But journaling is really good because what happens is that when you write in there and you go back in your previous pages, you'll find trends and patterns. 25:54.810 --> 25:57.430 And we love trends and patterns, right, in InfoSec. 25:57.430 --> 26:04.110 And so when you're able to pick up on those trends and patterns, you're able then to realize you have a situation and you need to deal with it. 26:04.110 --> 26:17.070 One of the things that I realized when I was dealing with burnout or felt like I was getting close to burnout, I kept seeing the term trapped or felt like pretty much it was the word trap that kept showing up in a couple of them. 26:17.070 --> 26:20.550 And so I realized, OK, I need to do something about that. 26:20.550 --> 26:25.670 So it's really important to journal, recall a diary, whatever works for you. 26:25.850 --> 26:33.170 The thing is that this is a time where you need to know what's going on emotionally for you, especially if you can't see a therapist at this time. 26:33.370 --> 26:36.090 At least keeping some sort of record with yourself. 26:36.090 --> 26:39.310 And I do recommend trying to do it daily if you can. 26:39.310 --> 26:43.650 If not, weekly is totally fine on that front. 26:44.130 --> 26:47.170 Now, the other thing that I tend to do is I do a break. 26:47.170 --> 26:50.430 I take a break from InfoSec at least once a week. 26:50.430 --> 26:54.550 For one day a week, I take a break from my devices. 26:54.870 --> 27:00.710 So phones off, computers off, and I will do anything that's not InfoSec related. 27:00.710 --> 27:03.370 If that means volunteering, that means volunteering. 27:03.370 --> 27:08.090 If that means going for a hike for the day, that means going for a hike for the day. 27:08.090 --> 27:11.770 If that means visiting family, that means visiting family. 27:11.770 --> 27:16.390 Or if you ever wanted to learn how to paint or draw, this is the perfect time to do so. 27:16.390 --> 27:24.290 But taking one day off from InfoSec is really, really important for you to start trying to get that balance and to keep that balance there. 27:25.190 --> 27:33.050 And if you are one of those people that you can't stay away from your devices in case of loved ones contacting you or whatnot, that's okay. 27:33.450 --> 27:43.990 One of the things that I tend to do is that I will let them know that I'm going to be taking a break between these hours and in case of an emergency that you reach me, this is where they can contact me. 27:44.390 --> 27:49.410 It's really important to do that, to let them know so that they're not worried about you at this time. 27:49.590 --> 27:53.530 But doing it every week is really good, even if it's just for four hours. 27:54.250 --> 27:57.410 Still, it's very good because you want to do preventative. 27:57.430 --> 28:00.890 And yes, you have to take a break from InfoSec Twitter. 28:00.910 --> 28:02.590 I know it's hard. 28:02.590 --> 28:04.450 Believe me, it is hard. 28:04.450 --> 28:06.390 But you have to do it once a week. 28:07.570 --> 28:11.230 And no, I don't mean you have to throw your phone on the ground or whatnot. 28:11.610 --> 28:12.690 Don't be silly. 28:12.690 --> 28:17.790 Even though there's times where I read something on Twitter and I'm just like, are you kidding me? 28:17.790 --> 28:23.310 But anyway, the other thing to do besides journaling is to keep a to-do list. 28:23.530 --> 28:25.250 So I have... 28:25.250 --> 28:27.730 I have a to-do list. 28:27.730 --> 28:35.990 And basically what I do is that I write down everything that I need to do, any tasks that I need to be on top of, and I write it down. 28:35.990 --> 28:37.450 And this could be personal stuff. 28:37.450 --> 28:38.430 This could be work stuff. 28:38.430 --> 28:41.850 But the thing is, I take this list everywhere I go in the house. 28:42.470 --> 28:45.650 Also, if I was on the road, I'd take it on the road. 28:45.650 --> 28:57.010 The reason for that is because it kind of empties out space in your head so you're able to think about other things and become more connected to have that self-awareness of what you're going through. 28:57.470 --> 29:02.290 So it's really therapeutic to write down all these things so you feel like you have more space in your head. 29:02.290 --> 29:03.710 It unclutters it. 29:04.070 --> 29:07.790 It's also really good if you are someone who struggles to sleep at night. 29:07.790 --> 29:10.150 Having a to -do list is going to be really helpful for you. 29:10.150 --> 29:14.450 Once again, it's something that has to be written by hand. 29:14.450 --> 29:21.170 And there's a reason for that because sometimes we have a to-do list on our phones or on our laptops. 29:21.170 --> 29:28.450 And that's great and everything, but the thing is, you know when you're about to fall asleep and you're like, okay, I'm going to go to sleep. 29:28.450 --> 29:31.970 And then suddenly you're like, oh my god, I forgot to send that email. 29:32.210 --> 29:34.610 Or, oh, that was such a great idea. 29:34.730 --> 29:35.590 I need it. 29:36.310 --> 29:39.150 And then you just keep thinking about it over and over and over. 29:39.410 --> 29:42.690 And this is the reason why it's harder for you to fall asleep. 29:42.910 --> 29:44.910 So one thing to do is have a to-do list. 29:44.910 --> 29:49.570 So have it by your bed in case in the middle of the night you wake up like, oh my god, I forgot to do something. 29:49.570 --> 29:51.610 Just write it down and you'll do it in the morning. 29:52.070 --> 29:54.670 Review that list in the morning too when you're ready. 29:54.850 --> 29:59.130 That means, you know, when you're drinking your coffee or your tea or afterwards. 29:59.130 --> 30:03.170 Whenever you feel like you're in that space to remember what you need to do. 30:03.250 --> 30:12.130 But it's very good because when I first started I was very, very overly anxious thinking that this is going to be hard. 30:12.310 --> 30:15.470 Because it is overwhelming when you see that list. 30:15.610 --> 30:16.810 But think about this. 30:16.810 --> 30:20.090 When I first started it was five pages long usually. 30:20.230 --> 30:23.530 And that's when I realized I got to fix something about myself. 30:23.530 --> 30:27.170 And also I need to fix my situation that I'm in. 30:27.630 --> 30:29.970 So now it's at one page. 30:29.970 --> 30:31.910 So it's always that one page now. 30:31.970 --> 30:32.830 And that's the thing. 30:32.830 --> 30:33.930 It's just be on top of it. 30:33.930 --> 30:36.510 And plus it feels really good to cross out things. 30:36.510 --> 30:38.130 You're just like, yes! 30:39.070 --> 30:41.010 So I really recommend this. 30:41.010 --> 30:43.590 Plus your memory might not be so great sometimes. 30:43.590 --> 30:45.870 So it's really good to remember it that way. 30:47.190 --> 30:57.170 Now, be a good manager is one of those things I like to tell people because if you're a bad manager you're going to make your people feel terrible too. 30:57.170 --> 31:04.890 What that means is you should be doing everything possible to understand mental health is an issue. 31:04.970 --> 31:07.070 Even if it looks invisible. 31:07.070 --> 31:08.970 And if you're wondering what do you mean by invisible? 31:08.970 --> 31:12.130 For example, if I had a broken arm, I would have a cast on. 31:12.130 --> 31:16.670 You would see I have a broken arm and you would understand that there's something wrong. 31:16.670 --> 31:19.970 The thing is with mental health is it's not visible usually. 31:20.190 --> 31:30.250 And because it's not visible, they think that you are making it up sometimes or they just don't consider it as a high priority versus because they can't see it . 31:30.350 --> 31:37.050 And so that is one of the issues with mental health and for offices to take it seriously is because it's invisible. 31:37.050 --> 31:38.710 It's an invisible danger. 31:39.310 --> 31:43.350 And so the thing is also to note about the invisible danger. 31:43.870 --> 31:50.290 I'm very glad that COVID-19 is forcing companies to finally recognize mental health, especially burnout. 31:50.330 --> 31:56.010 If you're a good manager, what you should do is make sure you give one mental health break day per month. 31:56.010 --> 31:58.810 And I ask to do it on a Friday or Monday. 31:58.810 --> 32:00.350 There's a reason for that. 32:00.430 --> 32:04.870 It gives them a chance to have a three-day weekend because we love three-day weekends. 32:04.870 --> 32:08.530 It's a good time for us to catch up on all the things you want to. 32:08.710 --> 32:11.710 So doing something like that is really beneficial to your employees. 32:11.710 --> 32:15.530 It's giving one day off per month for everyone. 32:15.670 --> 32:20.410 And you can call these self-worth days or something. 32:20.410 --> 32:20.970 I don't know. 32:20.970 --> 32:22.050 You can figure something out. 32:22.050 --> 32:31.390 But basically you give an option saying you can either do anything that will help you in your career or you can take the day off to relax and recharge. 32:31.530 --> 32:32.530 That's really good. 32:32.530 --> 32:37.390 The other thing is having one-on-ones weekly with your employees. 32:37.910 --> 32:41.690 About 15 minutes to 20 minutes per week should be good enough. 32:41.690 --> 32:55.850 It's a good time to visit all the things that you have to do, all the assignments, and work with your manager to prioritize which things are more of the things that need to get done or put more attention to. 32:55.850 --> 33:01.390 So it helps with prioritization but also is a good note to know how the employee is doing. 33:02.270 --> 33:20.830 With burnout and all of that, this is also a good way to note also if your employee isn't responding to emails as fast as usual and they seem a little bit different emotionally on a phone call or something like that, this might be a good time to remind them like, 33:20.830 --> 33:23.950 you know, you can take time off if you need to take time off. 33:24.470 --> 33:26.910 It's important for you to do that. 33:27.030 --> 33:33.510 Another thing that you can do is to enforce a no meetings day policy per week. 33:33.510 --> 33:39.390 So every week at a certain day, no one can book meetings on that day for anyone on the team. 33:39.390 --> 33:44.770 So this is a day kind of like to catch up on anything or to focus on certain things that you need to get focused on. 33:44.770 --> 33:48.970 So no meetings, so you're able to focus on whatever you need to get done for that week. 33:48.970 --> 33:50.450 It's really beneficial. 33:50.450 --> 33:52.810 So those are some good tips I have for you. 33:52.810 --> 33:55.210 And also, just be a good person. 33:55.910 --> 34:03.890 If you do have an employee that comes to you saying, I'm not doing so well emotionally, I need to take some time off, don't discourage it. 34:03.890 --> 34:08.030 Don't guilt them into well, what about your team? 34:08.330 --> 34:09.710 That's not your response. 34:09.710 --> 34:11.750 That's not the right response to do. 34:11.750 --> 34:18.270 The right response is to be like, okay, what days in the next one to two weeks work best for you? 34:18.270 --> 34:28.910 And to remember that if the person needs to take a break, you don't have to always let them tell you why they need to if they need to. 34:29.210 --> 34:33.530 Otherwise, don't ask right now at this time because chances are it's an emotional thing. 34:34.030 --> 34:41.870 I think that's really important is to try to remind your employees that it's okay for them to take a break if they need to. 34:42.990 --> 34:45.110 So now we're going to talk about how to bounce back. 34:45.110 --> 34:50.550 Those are all preventative things that you can do if you're starting to feel like you're getting burned out or you want to avoid burnout. 34:50.790 --> 34:54.850 Now we're going to talk about what to do if you're already burned out. 34:55.850 --> 34:56.850 You have to take time off. 34:56.850 --> 34:59.910 I hate to break it to you, but you have to take time off. 34:59.910 --> 35:06.090 That means you have to take at least three business days off to recharge your batteries. 35:06.170 --> 35:09.430 How bad it is, that means like a whole week. 35:09.630 --> 35:17.410 And the reason I say three business days is because you want to take it near your weekend so you actually get five days off, right? 35:17.590 --> 35:22.090 It's really important for you to get the time off that you need to recharge. 35:22.090 --> 35:28.330 And I know that we tend to feel guilty about taking time off because our team members need us and all that. 35:28.330 --> 35:33.330 But let me remind you is that when you are burned out, you're not 100% you. 35:33.690 --> 35:38.550 You're not even close to the percentage of usual you. 35:38.550 --> 35:46.410 And because of that, taking time off is really important because you need to recharge your batteries so you can go back to being who you usually are. 35:46.690 --> 35:48.490 And this is good for your team. 35:49.010 --> 35:56.850 Taking time off is so important on this and other things I know that we stress out is like, well, I'm going to come back with so many things and it's going to be overwhelming. 35:57.130 --> 35:58.710 I'm going to give you some tricks. 35:58.710 --> 36:10.650 So the first trick I have for you is to make sure that when you have your out of office message, put it as your date two days later than what you're actually returning. 36:10.650 --> 36:16.070 So for example, if I'm returning on the 14th, I'm going to let people know that I'm coming back on the 16th. 36:16.070 --> 36:19.630 This gives me two days of having to respond to emails. 36:19.790 --> 36:24.850 The other thing that you should do is put a hold on your calendar for the first two days that you're back. 36:24.910 --> 36:26.450 So no meetings at all. 36:26.450 --> 36:29.870 Just block it so then you're able to catch up on everything. 36:30.210 --> 36:31.970 If you can do two days, great. 36:31.970 --> 36:33.670 If only one day, just do it. 36:33.670 --> 36:36.850 It's going to help you so then you're able to bounce back. 36:36.910 --> 36:41.850 I did take my first vacation ever for one week in the past two and a half years. 36:42.510 --> 36:50.550 And I made sure to block that and it worked really, really well because I did return to like, I think it was definitely over a thousand emails. 36:50.690 --> 36:52.290 But it was definitely stressful when I came back. 36:52.290 --> 36:55.670 But I also felt better so I was able to respond a lot faster. 36:55.910 --> 37:06.310 When you do come back though, I do recommend in the afternoon on your first day back is to message your teammates and ask if there's anything that is urgent that needs to be done. 37:06.330 --> 37:11.750 So you're able to kind of prioritize and get everything done and also you don't get lost in your inbox. 37:11.750 --> 37:19.210 It's also important to let people know is to CC you in everything and to keep it on one communication channel. 37:19.210 --> 37:23.630 Meaning, if you have something that I need to be aware of, keep it via email. 37:23.630 --> 37:36.030 Don't do it by Slack because having multiple places to check for communication around things while you're gone is really stressful for everyone because things are, you're probably not going to catch that. 37:36.030 --> 37:39.530 It's going to be too much because there's just so much different types of communication. 37:39.530 --> 37:43.090 So just keep one long email chain for each thing. 37:43.230 --> 37:51.030 Also having a project management system is really important too to help you be able to prioritize and know what is on your plate. 37:51.110 --> 38:04.670 Now before you take the time off, just note for the first few days or that week before, you will probably have to work a little bit extra to make sure that you have that zero inbox if you can, but also be on top of any assignments that are kind of needed to be done within the week. 38:05.370 --> 38:07.810 Those are my tips that I have for taking time off. 38:08.970 --> 38:11.570 Also learning to say no. 38:11.570 --> 38:25.670 So when I had that to-do list the first time it was five pages long, I realized I had to learn how to say no because constantly over juggling every different thing is very exhausting. 38:25.970 --> 38:31.730 So it's really important to learn when is a good time to kick on something new, when is not. 38:31.990 --> 38:40.350 I know that sometimes when we have a job or whatnot, we need to accept assignments, but if it's not part of your job, you do not need to accept those assignments. 38:40.350 --> 38:44.490 And if they give you problems with that, let me tell you how you do this. 38:44.490 --> 38:45.950 Keep an email chain. 38:46.030 --> 38:50.810 Keeping your paper trail of all the emails is really important. 38:50.810 --> 38:58.070 And I do recommend that also when you tell your manager you need to take time off, send out a quick email saying thanks for meeting with me and talking to me about this. 38:58.070 --> 39:02.290 I really appreciate that and I'll take off these days. 39:02.290 --> 39:13.090 You want to keep a record of all your conversations if you definitely have a terrible workplace because this will protect you in case HR needs to get involved for you to be like, where are you talking about? 39:13.270 --> 39:14.530 You knew about my issue. 39:14.530 --> 39:15.770 Here's the paper trail. 39:15.770 --> 39:16.610 Here you go. 39:17.310 --> 39:22.690 Also, whenever someone puts a task under you that's not part of your job, remind them politely. 39:22.690 --> 39:26.030 Hey, I already have too many things and this is not usually part of my job. 39:26.030 --> 39:28.670 I recommend you reaching out to this person instead. 39:29.130 --> 39:30.670 So hopefully that person is your manager. 39:30.670 --> 39:32.310 So you have to learn to say no. 39:32.370 --> 39:38.610 And it is hard if you're a high performer because the chances are if you're a high performer, they're going to be like, oh great, you got that done. 39:38.610 --> 39:40.410 Here's some more stuff for you. 39:40.410 --> 39:42.530 It's a great reward, right? 39:42.670 --> 39:45.430 So just keep that in mind. 39:45.710 --> 40:04.030 I will definitely also share with you is that if you're someone who feels like there's no one on the team that looks like you or acts like you on your team, that there's a part of you that feels like you don't belong and you constantly have to prove over and over that you belong to be there, 40:04.030 --> 40:10.770 you're going to get a little bit more burned out because chances are they're going to always see you as someone else. 40:11.190 --> 40:12.990 And if you're wondering what do you mean by that? 40:12.990 --> 40:16.750 Okay, so I had one of my jobs. 40:17.550 --> 40:20.910 I was, you know, a marketing manager or whatnot. 40:20.910 --> 40:27.510 But every time I would go into a meeting, the executives would turn to me and say, Chloe, you got that? 40:27.510 --> 40:28.630 You got the notes down? 40:28.710 --> 40:33.030 And I remember just being like, why am I taking down notes? 40:33.070 --> 40:35.330 And you're like, oh, can you go get a glass of water for me? 40:35.330 --> 40:37.490 Oh, can you get me a cup of coffee for me? 40:37.670 --> 40:50.750 And the thing was that I kept doing those things because I knew that I could lose my job if I didn't or if I caused a problem because they were already seeing me as that woman who causes problems if I were to speak out. 40:50.830 --> 40:58.390 So if you're in that situation, please note that there are plenty of companies out there that would love to have you and you should not be working there. 40:59.890 --> 41:07.330 And what I meant on that one is like some of us we deal with, we have to be perfect because we're worried we're going to lose our job. 41:07.330 --> 41:14.950 So we accept whatever treatment, we accept the extra job duties on top of a job that isn't supposed to have anything to do with those things. 41:14.950 --> 41:20.070 We're constantly on being bombarded with projects from our teamwork. 41:20.190 --> 41:29.150 I mean, our team, basically our team members, we constantly have to accept it because if we don't, we're really worried we're going to lose our job. 41:29.410 --> 41:33.370 And that's a real fear, especially right now with the economic situation. 41:33.930 --> 41:36.850 We're constantly like, I have to do whatever I can to keep my job. 41:36.850 --> 41:43.070 I have to do everything I can to keep my job because there are hardly any jobs out there and I can't afford that right now. 41:43.070 --> 41:46.430 I have to make sure I take care of someone at this time. 41:46.790 --> 41:48.410 I can't handle all this. 41:48.410 --> 41:50.310 I have to do whatever I can. 41:51.750 --> 41:53.710 Please note, you're in InfoSec. 41:53.710 --> 41:58.610 There is definitely a shortage of personnel and there are definitely openings out there. 41:58.610 --> 42:03.670 And if you're looking for a role, DEF CON is the place, once again, to look for that. 42:03.850 --> 42:07.770 There's plenty of us that have connections that can help you get in the door. 42:07.790 --> 42:09.490 You should not be putting up with that. 42:09.490 --> 42:18.070 And if you have that fear of losing your job all the time, that means you're not working in a good collaborative environment or you have a really bad manager. 42:18.070 --> 42:22.690 And which is the case, we need to talk about, you need to start learning how to invest in yourself. 42:23.550 --> 42:30.570 One of the things about burnout is that when we're not balancing our work and personal life, it also means that we're not investing in ourselves. 42:30.570 --> 42:32.850 We're not taking care of our needs. 42:33.090 --> 42:46.850 And that's a really scary thing because if we're constantly doing everything we can bend backwards for our team members or for our families, our friends, the thing is, is that you're giving so much that you forgot to take care of you. 42:46.950 --> 42:53.010 And right now you need to invest in yourself because clearly you already are in burned out at that point. 42:53.010 --> 42:55.030 So it's really important to invest in yourself. 42:55.030 --> 42:57.070 Take some time for yourself daily. 42:57.350 --> 43:05.290 Put limits to different, if you need to call someone and be like, okay, I can talk for like this and this time, but I need to take it. 43:05.290 --> 43:09.690 I need to make sure that I get off the phone at this time for personal reasons. 43:09.690 --> 43:12.610 Then just let the person know ahead of time about that. 43:12.610 --> 43:16.890 It's really important that we start really respecting other people. 43:16.890 --> 43:29.650 If they seem like I can't talk right now or like I need to take a break, respect that at this time because chances are they're trying to figure out how to reinvest in themselves and your manager should invest in yourself. 43:29.650 --> 43:37.110 So if you have a manager that isn't investing in you, I want to just also let you know about that is that a good manager wants you to thrive. 43:37.110 --> 43:38.950 They want to see you go be on them. 43:38.950 --> 43:49.370 And if you don't have that type of manager, it's time to look elsewhere and you can still work at the same job, but also look on the side, reach out to some recruiters. 43:49.370 --> 43:54.610 They're always looking to help people find something and also people in the community and InfoSec Twitter. 43:54.610 --> 43:57.030 It actually helps out quite a bit. 43:57.890 --> 44:02.890 The main takeaways from this I hope you have is when you feel overwhelmed, do a device detox. 44:02.890 --> 44:05.890 Remember, you want to do more than four hours per week. 44:05.890 --> 44:08.630 Get away from InfoSec once a week. 44:08.630 --> 44:09.950 Do other things. 44:09.950 --> 44:11.690 When you feel overwhelmed, invest in yourself. 44:11.690 --> 44:22.350 That means do something that's going to make you feel happy and better because the chances are you're feeling burned out or you're getting close to being burned out is because you're not taking time for you. 44:22.590 --> 44:24.830 When you feel overwhelmed, ask for help. 44:24.850 --> 44:27.470 InfoSec Twitter is an amazing place to ask for help. 44:27.470 --> 44:30.070 Defcon is a wonderful place to ask for help. 44:30.370 --> 44:33.830 Mental Health Hackers is a wonderful place to ask for help. 44:33.870 --> 44:40.090 The thing is, I wouldn't be where I am today if I didn't ask for help. 44:40.270 --> 44:43.450 And so that's really important to know is that the community has your back. 44:43.450 --> 44:45.290 They are there to support you. 44:45.510 --> 44:46.810 So ask for the help. 44:46.810 --> 44:47.430 It's okay. 44:47.430 --> 44:52.310 And I know it's scary to ask for help sometimes, but just do it because they're there for you too. 44:52.450 --> 44:54.410 When you feel overwhelmed, write it down. 44:54.410 --> 44:55.870 Remember, have a to-do list. 44:55.870 --> 44:56.610 Do your journaling. 44:56.610 --> 44:58.370 This is going to be really helpful for you. 44:58.390 --> 45:00.390 Do it by hand and paper. 45:00.530 --> 45:10.130 Please don't do your computer or your phone or whatnot like that because that is not going to help you at all because what happens is that when I pick up my phone, I'm like, I'm going to get this email done. 45:10.130 --> 45:13.310 I'm going to go to another app and then another one and then another one. 45:13.310 --> 45:18.330 Next thing you know, it's been an hour when I was only planning to spend maybe like five or ten minutes on my phone. 45:18.390 --> 45:20.470 So the thing is, make sure you do that. 45:20.550 --> 45:22.310 When you feel overwhelmed, take a break. 45:22.310 --> 45:31.410 Remember, if you are starting to feel like you're getting burned out or you are in burned out, make sure that you take at least three business days off. 45:31.870 --> 45:36.790 Also, making sure that you take a weekly day off for that device detox. 45:36.790 --> 45:39.150 That also means getting away from social media. 45:39.210 --> 45:50.210 And I just want to put out here beforehand, if you're going to take time off for work, that means you've got to get off of social media and InfoSec Twitter. 45:50.210 --> 45:53.050 That means you need to get off your devices too. 45:53.050 --> 46:02.410 So how burnout works when you want to get back to normal, you actually have to take those days off as if you are doing a huge device detox. 46:03.110 --> 46:04.110 I've done it. 46:04.110 --> 46:05.370 It works like a charm. 46:05.370 --> 46:09.930 Let me tell you, two days of just a device detox and I felt 100% almost better. 46:09.930 --> 46:11.670 So I really do recommend it. 46:11.670 --> 46:13.330 When you feel overwhelmed, put yourself first. 46:13.330 --> 46:20.690 And I want to really let you guys know about this, is that when you're not taking care of yourself, you cannot be there for others. 46:20.690 --> 46:25.830 When you're mentally not well, you cannot be mentally there to support someone else. 46:25.830 --> 46:36.050 That's why it's important, if you care about the person that you're trying to be there for, you also need to keep yourself in check and have that self-awareness and do whatever is needed to make you feel happy. 46:36.090 --> 46:42.350 And if you're wondering, I don't know what makes me happy anymore these days, write... I'm all about writing. 46:42.350 --> 46:43.530 I do a T-chart. 46:43.530 --> 46:45.690 So basically a T-chart like this. 46:46.070 --> 46:51.590 And I have one column that is things that I love about InfoSec, things that I love outside of InfoSec. 46:51.590 --> 46:56.370 And then I look over it and see what are things that I'm doing, what are things I'm not doing. 46:56.370 --> 47:02.390 And the things that used to make me happy, I try to do those things all over, or I try to learn something new. 47:02.390 --> 47:04.470 There's plenty of things to do out there. 47:04.630 --> 47:07.130 I mean, YouTube, Google, it's all there. 47:07.130 --> 47:10.270 You can find out anything and learn how to do anything these days. 47:10.610 --> 47:13.050 When you feel overwhelmed, know that you're not alone. 47:13.050 --> 47:15.230 I really want to push this forward. 47:15.230 --> 47:18.830 It is so important for you guys to know that you are not alone. 47:19.250 --> 47:31.130 There has been one part in my career where I felt very isolated from everyone because I didn't know Twitter or InfoSec really existed yet because it was my first year in InfoSec. 47:31.310 --> 47:41.010 But I remember feeling very isolated and alone and wanting to leave InfoSec permanently because I didn't know that there was such a great community here that has each other's back. 47:41.010 --> 47:53.110 And when I did find that community, oh my God, it was like as if I've seen everything like black and white and gray shades and everything and then suddenly became something like HD in color. 47:53.110 --> 47:58.610 The thing is that there are so many great organizations here and everyone has your back. 47:58.610 --> 48:05.450 At the end of the day, there are a lot more good people in the world than bad people and I try to remind that quite often. 48:06.410 --> 48:14.290 Most importantly, though, how you can tell if you're burned out is always to ask the question, am I balancing my work and personal life? 48:14.310 --> 48:16.250 If not, take the steps to fix it. 48:16.250 --> 48:32.970 If that means that you only have two devices, so for example, having two different phones, one for work, one for personal life, I highly do recommend if you can do that because what you can do is stay away from your personal device and then during the times that you usually work, 48:32.970 --> 48:35.130 you only have your work device near you. 48:35.390 --> 48:48.230 And when you're done with work for the day, take a one hour kind of like break to yourself, do whatever you need to do and then go on your personal device and take your calls, text and do all that. 48:48.450 --> 48:52.310 I do this so I separate my personal life from my work life. 48:52.310 --> 48:57.990 It's really good to try to separate the two because it does help with understanding how much balancing I'm doing. 48:57.990 --> 49:03.230 You want to make sure you're doing more personal hours or the same amount of personal hours as your work. 49:04.430 --> 49:09.050 And I just want to let you guys know, I did have burnout. 49:09.050 --> 49:10.870 I've had burnout a few times. 49:10.870 --> 49:16.830 You can definitely get back to normal with your break. 49:16.830 --> 49:21.530 It's just important to remember these preventative techniques and whatnot. 49:21.590 --> 49:24.650 And also, if you're already burnt out, now you know what to do. 49:24.750 --> 49:27.330 And if you need any help, I'm here for you. 49:27.330 --> 49:30.410 I'm also here to do Q&A for you and everything. 49:31.430 --> 49:34.710 And also, I ask for one favor from all of you guys. 49:34.710 --> 49:44.790 If you guys can take a quick screenshot copy of this page, you don't know you might be helping or saving someone else's life by simply just sharing this. 49:44.790 --> 49:47.670 It's good for you to have this wherever you go. 49:47.730 --> 49:48.910 Have it on your phone. 49:48.910 --> 49:50.750 Have it on your computer or whatnot. 49:50.890 --> 49:59.210 Send it to your loved one so then they're aware that they have this because maybe they don't need it, but maybe someone that they know or are talking to, they now know these. 49:59.210 --> 50:03.850 These are really important resources to have, especially at this time. 50:03.850 --> 50:08.950 This was a list basically provided from the CDC, so please go ahead and use it. 50:08.950 --> 50:17.130 And last but not least, I just want to also let you guys know, a lot of questions I tend to get are about drinking. 50:17.130 --> 50:19.810 How much is drinking is okay? 50:19.810 --> 50:21.570 How much is not okay? 50:21.850 --> 50:33.470 And I do recommend doing the following things, which is don't ever drink by yourself, meaning have a virtual one-on-one or be on the phone with someone else who's having a drink with you. 50:33.470 --> 50:35.090 Never drink by yourself. 50:35.130 --> 50:40.710 Set certain days as the day that you can drink and never go past two drinks for that day. 50:41.150 --> 50:48.890 Don't drink, of course, during any time of work hours, but do it in the late afternoon or evening, it's okay. 50:48.890 --> 50:53.270 So please remember, that's how you practice good drinking habits. 50:53.270 --> 50:57.030 If you want to drink, definitely on that front. 50:57.230 --> 51:14.810 And just remember, if you're drinking or you have the urge to drink a lot more and maybe it's a time for you to look for help or to tell someone about that because I know it's a hard time right now, but drinking is not going to solve that for you. 51:14.810 --> 51:18.710 If anything, it's going to make you feel worse, especially if you are burned out. 51:18.710 --> 51:34.550 I hate to break it to you, but alcohol is just going to make you feel 10 times worse afterwards because you have this drop you experience a drop of and sometimes you get experiencing like this kind of like depression symptoms. 51:34.570 --> 51:36.670 So I really recommend you not doing that. 51:37.970 --> 51:40.650 Anyway, I just want to say thank you guys for existing. 51:40.910 --> 51:44.210 If you have any questions at all, feel free to reach out to me. 51:44.210 --> 51:44.890 I am here. 51:44.890 --> 51:47.230 I'm also here to take any live Q&A. 51:48.090 --> 51:55.370 I'm going to turn off my slides so then I can you guys can, I don't know, well, we'll just I'll turn off my slides now. 51:55.370 --> 51:55.890 Hold on.