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4210	6750	Hey, how's it going, DEF CON?
7430	12870	Super excited to get to talk to you guys about one of these things I'm passionate about,
12870	16250	which just happens to be security and magic.
17470	21690	Today, we're going to be going over Outposts, Forces, and Equivocates,
22090	23930	a treatise on how magicians speak.
23930	27130	I learned that word all by myself, too. I'm very proud of it.
28050	30390	But let's go ahead and get started here.
31690	39010	So, starting off, I'm hex 90, no-op, not 0x90, whatever you want to call me.
39010	43650	I don't really care. I'm a magician. I'm also a full-time software engineer.
43650	47650	I have a background in security, love to break things,
48050	52950	and most importantly, I don't need more than my current 200 Twitter followers,
52950	57250	so no need for any handles or anything.
57250	65610	But overall, a fairly unremarkable person, and you don't need to worry about it.
65890	74830	What this talk is, I want to cover three major tenets within magic,
74830	81650	specifically how we handle choices and how we handle making people feel
81650	85370	like they're making choices, but ultimately, it's either something
85370	88950	in our favor or something that we want to happen.
89990	95330	So, we're going to be covering forcing, multiple outs, and equivocates.
95330	100310	The interesting thing about these three techniques is that they're all super similar,
100310	104070	but they do have some small key differences that make them worth talking about
104070	106630	as an individual concept.
107910	111610	Going forward, what this talk is not going to be...
112390	119610	I don't want to feel like I'm giving people permission to heckle performers.
119830	126950	Performing is extremely difficult, and honestly, if you have an interest in magic,
126950	131870	the time to do it is not during a performance or a show.
131870	136450	Honestly, a lot of magicians are pretty down-to-earth people.
136450	141910	They're just people who are just as nerdy as you or I,
141910	144230	just kind of doing a thing that they love.
144230	147650	So, if you have an interest, honestly, take a magician aside,
147650	150770	say, hey, I think that's really cool, and I want to try it.
150770	154870	And they'll more often than not give you some cool books or some tips
155250	156790	on how to get into magic.
156790	160970	And I think that's really awesome because we're a really open community,
160970	165150	but please don't harass them because you know how to do some stuff now.
166450	172310	Also, this talk isn't about any secretly documented human cheat codes
172310	174970	to make people act in ways that they normally wouldn't.
174970	177650	You're not going to get someone to act against their interests
177650	182630	by saying some magic words or hit some crazy synapses
182630	186190	that are going to make them all of a sudden forget who they are.
186290	191650	This is all very real, well-published, at least in the magic world,
191650	194570	techniques that present the illusion of choice
195070	197950	while you remain completely in control.
198450	203050	I also want to take a moment to address the fact that we have...
203050	205610	I am not in control of the slideshow right now.
205610	207670	So, I'll be saying, next slide.
207670	210630	And I'm sorry, it's not the most beautiful thing in the world,
210630	212230	but I don't have a clicky thing.
212450	213910	So, I won't be able to do that.
213910	218410	And also, quarantine has made it so this week has been
218410	222150	the most human interaction I've had to deal with in like six months.
222150	226990	So, I apologize if I sound less than human.
227150	231170	But let's go ahead and hit the first term.
231930	234270	So, forces.
234910	238850	Essentially, a force is the appearance of different values to be chosen,
238850	242410	but through subterfuge, the only option is a single choice.
242630	245790	This is when other choices cannot be selected.
245790	251090	This is... I have 52 cards, and I really, really need someone
251090	253310	to pick a specific thing.
253650	258790	It's when you have no option but the primary choice
258790	260570	that you want them to select.
260610	261950	Can we go to the next slide?
263470	266210	A super over-the-heads term.
266690	269990	And honestly, next time you have an opportunity to do a coin flip,
269990	274790	go ahead and try to say this, but tails I win, heads you lose.
277010	284610	Very quickly, if you read it, it's easy to see how obvious that is.
284770	286790	But ultimately, this is a force.
286790	291410	There's no other option but to have them pick a wrong choice here.
291550	296810	And if you actually try this, and you have confidence in your language,
296810	300190	you'd be surprised with how many times you can actually get away with this.
300190	304530	It's pretty fun, especially if you need to settle any bets within a bar.
305830	310590	The next slide, we have multiple outs.
310870	316250	This is the appearance of free choice, but ultimately all the possibilities,
316250	320290	all the possible decisions are accounted for and expected.
320350	322870	This is used when you need a freedom of choice,
322870	327210	and they need to actually feel like they have a free choice,
327210	330430	like everything is fully free.
330430	335390	And the reason why you want to do this is just sometimes
335390	339050	when you're forcing someone to pick a specific thing,
339050	343430	unless that force is perfect, and it's designed for the situation,
343430	346550	you can start to pick up on it.
346550	349830	You can kind of detect something in your brain goes off and says,
349830	353010	I'm being told to do something that I might not want to do.
353010	355490	And there's an instant fight response.
355490	358990	But if the pressure is no longer on the decision,
358990	363990	and it's on the response, then you can get a little more into this.
364390	369810	And if we go to the next slide, Penn and Teller, a while ago,
369810	375190	they had the perfect example of multiple outs.
375350	378990	They had a special called Penn and Teller off the deep end.
379210	383710	And to give you an idea of how long ago this was,
383710	388370	Aaron Carter was also on this special, and he sang a song underwater
388370	391790	while they did magic tricks with scuba diving,
391790	394550	as well as a bunch of other stuff on the beach.
394550	399850	But one of the effects that they did was they had 52 reveals,
399850	403270	which is sewing a playing card into your jacket,
403270	406750	hiding a giant card in a pot of plants,
406750	409790	kids having them written on them in sunscreen.
409790	414750	They had 52 different values that they could potentially reveal,
414750	418030	and essentially they had someone selecting a completely random card
418030	421750	and naming it, and then suddenly they knew where it was,
421750	424290	or they knew how to reveal it.
424290	427830	And it made it seem like this was the only option that could have happened,
427830	434430	because who would really set up 52 possible answers for this?
434430	437390	And I think what they did was a perfect example
437390	442310	to show the idea of what a multiple out is.
442590	444170	Next slide.
445310	446410	Equivocate.
446490	449710	Equivocate essentially just means double entendre.
449710	451710	I think it sounds cooler.
452230	455850	But ultimately, you're using open-ended questions and vague language
455850	458850	to create ambiguity around choice or knowledge,
458850	461270	and I'm seeing that there's a typo in this slide,
461270	463990	and I'm kicking myself, but I love it.
464710	469610	You also use it when you need to control the perception of information,
469610	473410	even having different definitions between different people.
474790	478190	In magic, this is called dual reality.
478190	481110	This allows you to have the same sentence,
481110	484270	based on the context that two people are coming from,
484270	485790	view it differently.
485790	490270	And I feel like the equivocate is probably one of the most powerful terms
490270	495450	when it comes to controlling decisions coming from people,
495450	498850	as well as it's the most applicable to social engineering.
499730	503110	And it's actually one of the many reasons
503110	505850	why magicians won't perform a trick twice,
505850	507710	very similar to multiple outs.
507730	510350	Everyone's heard one of the rules of magic is
510350	512270	you never perform a trick twice,
513230	516190	and equivocates and multiple outs are a part of that.
516190	519990	If you do the same effect, but you have to go a different direction,
519990	521990	and someone's seeing it twice in a row,
521990	525730	they're going to easily be able to pick up that there's two different paths
525730	527790	that they possibly could have gone down.
527790	530170	And it kind of does damage to the effect.
530170	533070	As well as if you view magic like a joke,
533070	534890	you wouldn't say the same joke twice in a row
534890	537250	because everyone knows what the punchline is going to be,
537250	541010	and it becomes substantially less special.
541170	544730	But the example for equivocate, if we go to the next slide,
544730	548790	is are you right-handed or left-handed?
548790	550950	And if they respond left, then you say,
550950	552850	great, I need this hand to be loose,
552850	554510	so let's use your non-dominant hand
554510	557350	because we want them to be using their right hand.
558390	560450	But alternatively, if they would have said right,
560450	562510	and you go to the next slide,
562510	564670	are you right-handed or left-handed?
564670	567510	And they say right, then you say,
567510	569950	great, I need this hand to be strong,
569950	573410	so let's go ahead and use your dominant hand.
573850	575690	And if you notice here,
575690	577550	if you saw these questions side-by-side
577550	579130	and they're answered the same way,
579130	581010	that would ruin this effect.
581010	583270	But because of the vague language
583270	587150	and the lack of intent being posed in the question,
587150	591830	you can't actually tell what the reasoning is for the question,
591830	595910	and so the answer doesn't seem so alien,
595910	600230	but it is a little bit when you set them side-by-side.
600450	602430	Let's go ahead and go to the next section.
604130	607030	So how do these terms work?
607030	611650	How come people don't instantly call a bull on a lot of this?
612510	615910	And ultimately, it's not voodoo.
615910	618010	There's no real magic here.
618010	621250	You're simply taking advantage of people's laziness.
621390	623030	There's a book actually called
623030	625690	The Paradox of Choice, Why More is Less,
625690	627890	and that was written by Barry Schwartz.
627890	631870	And in it, he talks about the decision-making process that people have.
631870	633690	And it's primarily about consumerism,
633690	635910	but also in the book, it shows that
636770	641330	people are less happy with their choices when there are too many,
641330	644870	and often they'll take a lot longer to make a simple choice.
644870	649330	So people much prefer to choose from three flavors of candy versus 50,
649330	652950	because if they pick from 50, they're always going to be semi-disappointed.
653990	656970	And the perfect example of this is
656970	661050	anyone that's had to coordinate, especially now with Zoom calls,
661050	663870	coordinate a time with multiple people.
664290	666810	Anytime you ask, hey, what time works for everyone?
666810	669070	Because you want to be a decent human being,
669070	671750	and you want to accommodate everyone,
671750	675130	it's going to result in a conversational gridlock.
675390	677090	And this is because you have
678830	681690	an infinite amount of times that could be selected.
681690	682950	I can't imagine people are like,
682950	687750	oh, yes, I want to meet at 12 p.m. and 16 picoseconds.
687750	689950	But in theory, you could.
690770	693290	And instead, if you say, hey,
693290	697270	should we meet at 10 a.m. or 6 p.m. instead of what time works for everyone?
698130	701050	More often than not, you're going to get an answer much quicker.
701050	703610	Everyone's going to be able to come to a decision quicker.
703610	706670	They won't always be exactly the times that you requested,
706670	708050	but people will come.
708530	711890	They will coalesce into a single time a lot faster
711890	714750	because they're able to take that information
714750	719670	and they pose it as a question to themselves as how does this apply to me?
719670	723890	And how can I fit into this instead of also trying to account
723890	725870	for all these external factors?
725870	727890	And by limiting choices,
727890	732150	you make people feel more confident in their choices
732670	738150	instead of making it this open-ended world.
738310	742610	And another issue with using equivocate
742610	745150	or using multiple outs or even forces
745150	750090	is that some of these methods can leave a trail of word crumbs
750090	754630	that you can easily backtrack to figure out that there was manipulation.
754670	761110	So if you were to rewatch a Zoom call where an equivocate was used,
761110	766050	you could potentially figure out how vague that language is after the fact.
766050	771490	Sometimes in the moment, you won't necessarily see that happening,
771490	776370	but after the fact, you might be able to backtrack on it.
776590	780330	But in that moment, you also want to avoid people being able to find
780330	784670	and pick up on those word crumbs and backtrack on that conversation.
784850	790210	And the way magicians get around this is we create little memory snapshots.
790310	793290	So let's say we had to do a deck switch
793290	796610	and do all these other crazy things.
796690	800590	Instead of highlighting that moment of the deck switch,
800590	804370	we're going to try to mentally have the picture that your mind takes,
804370	807370	the thing that you remember, be much different.
807490	809850	That's also why people, magicians at least,
809850	812390	they'll work on blocking out their props.
812810	817130	So for example, we had a magician who came on and he did a Zoom show,
817130	821390	and part of it is he has a card under a box,
821390	825630	and he wants you to make sure that you see that card and you remember it,
825630	827830	and you remember that it didn't move.
827830	833430	And that's very important because when you go back in your inferring method,
833430	837930	you don't want to have your audience get distracted on that.
838010	842750	And the way we do this is we reiterate on stories that we wanted to happen,
842750	846910	not necessarily what exactly happened, but what we want to happen.
847370	850530	And then we also let the manipulations fade into the background.
850530	852890	We stop drawing attention to them.
853570	856890	If I'm doing an effect where I need to choose someone's right hand or left hand,
856890	860770	I'm not going to go back and say, and remember when I had you pick your hand?
860850	863090	We're going to pretend like that never happened.
865110	869850	And another misconception here is that misdirection is used,
869850	872430	but it's not used in the way people think about it.
872430	875870	A lot of people think misdirection is, hey, look over there,
875870	879490	and then something sneaky happens over here.
879490	885450	What actually happens with misdirection is you have something that you want to hide.
885450	888010	You want this to be in the shadows, not in the light.
888070	893570	So you make something interesting happen over here instead, and your focus comes here.
893570	897990	And then this thing, it drops away into the background.
897990	902530	And you can do this verbally. You can do it with props. You can do it with stage direction.
902530	906610	If you've ever watched live theater before, even without magic,
906610	910310	you'll notice when there's a monologue or something happens
910310	913050	and they're bringing everyone to the front of the theater,
913050	916790	things in the background start vanishing and they're pulling objects off of the stage.
916790	920930	Maybe cast members are disappearing because they're changing out a set piece or something.
921010	923710	But that's not because they're trying to misdirect you.
923710	925390	They're not trying to fool you.
925390	929850	They're simply encouraging you to keep your attention elsewhere,
929850	932410	but they don't have to do it with a trick or like a,
932410	934850	hey, look over here and ring a bunch of keys in your face.
934850	937890	And that's a very important thing when it comes to making that snapshot,
937890	941970	because if you're really aggressive with that, you will fail.
941970	945490	And that's how people can backtrack, whether it's in a magic trick
945490	949970	or whether you're doing this in a social engineering setting.
950150	952570	If you could go ahead and hit the next slide.
953830	959250	Now let's get into actual applications of these three concepts.
959690	961770	Magical applications of forces.
962610	965210	Obviously, there's a card force.
965210	969650	If I have, let's say, a duplicate of a card somewhere,
969650	971810	and maybe it's in my pocket or something.
972350	974770	And I want to do this really seamless effect
974770	978790	where I have a card selected, and then it goes back in the deck,
978790	980530	and then without bringing my hand near it,
980530	982290	I can pull it out of my pocket.
982290	984210	That's a very simple way.
984210	986730	But there's many ways to force a card.
987750	990690	The classic of all forces is exactly that.
990690	991990	It's the classic force.
992490	997310	And it's the idea of timing it in such a way that when they go,
997310	998910	that they naturally select it.
998910	1002030	And this is something that takes decades of practice,
1002030	1004810	and it's something that I continuously am working on.
1004810	1009010	There's also methods of sleight of hand for forcing a card.
1009110	1013370	And there are books and books and books written on this subject
1013910	1015570	for actually learning this.
1015570	1017290	And if you guys are interested,
1017290	1022590	I'm happy to show a few methods later after the Q&A is going on.
1023070	1026650	There's also a billet or an object force.
1026650	1030150	So this is one that I think actually applies more to...
1030150	1032050	that could be used better for social engineering
1032630	1034850	or an offensive attack.
1034850	1038530	But a billet is essentially a folded piece of paper
1038530	1041890	that might have a piece of information on it.
1041890	1044690	And commonly, if you need to force something,
1044690	1047830	you might allow your audience to collect and write a bunch of things down
1047830	1049090	to get put into a box.
1049090	1051410	But maybe that whole box gets switched out,
1051410	1053410	or maybe there's a special gimmick with the box
1053410	1055990	that allows when you open it,
1055990	1060730	you can go in and you're only going to pull out the ones that you want.
1061230	1063530	And that's really important to take notice of
1063530	1066710	because you can do this with pieces of paper,
1066710	1068590	you can do it with small objects.
1069390	1073310	And of course, the last one here is a pattern force.
1073490	1079390	This was less about swapping out an object that you're providing
1079390	1083330	and more about swapping out information
1083330	1086510	that a spectator is providing for you.
1086510	1091370	So let's say we have someone who mixes up a Rubik's Cube behind their back,
1091370	1093770	they're unaware of what that information might be,
1093770	1096710	and then they bring it forward to you without looking at it.
1096710	1100270	And you're able to put something like a shell over it,
1100270	1103750	or something that allows you to change the values in it
1103750	1107290	to something that you want to get to a specific value.
1107290	1110030	And essentially in real life, if you think about it,
1110030	1112950	this would be like if someone was able to generate a random value
1112950	1115450	that they weren't able to look at, and then they gave it to you
1115450	1117890	and you said, ah, yes, your random value is three.
1117890	1119170	Of course it is.
1119610	1122470	And that could be very damaging.
1122590	1126750	I can only imagine the type of nonsense that could happen with crypto on that.
1126810	1128250	If we could go to the next slide.
1129710	1132350	Some IRL applications of forces.
1133890	1136650	So there's a bunch of different ideas
1136650	1138710	and you can get as cheeky as you want.
1139130	1141390	And I just came up with a few.
1141390	1143590	These are, of course, theoretical.
1143590	1147190	I'm coming from a magic perspective, but I also like to break things.
1147190	1151910	So I haven't actually had an opportunity to do any red teaming myself,
1151910	1155450	but I have done lots of security contracting
1155450	1159990	with black box and white box penetration tests.
1160150	1163910	And a lot of these concepts could easily apply
1163910	1166910	and leak in to a social engineering concept
1166910	1168870	because they do work so well in magic.
1168990	1173110	But when you're comparing forces in magic to forces in real life,
1174630	1179290	I realize that forces are best used for getting objects in people's hands,
1179290	1181970	thinking that they have chosen them from a group,
1181970	1185610	that this is the object that's in their best intention.
1186470	1188830	Like imagine going to a used car lot
1188830	1193170	and for some reason they want you to take this specific car.
1193170	1197490	You're like, I want this model, and you have three of them,
1197490	1200890	and they're all the same color, but why do you want me to have this one?
1200890	1203310	And of course, that should throw some red flags,
1203310	1207150	but there might be reasons for wanting to do that.
1207150	1210090	It might be advantageous for them to get it off the lot for whatever reason.
1210090	1214030	It might even be benign, but you never know.
1214150	1216870	And some other applications of forces,
1216870	1222690	for example, if you had a batch of benign USB sticks
1222690	1226210	and then you had a batch of USB sticks that had, for example,
1226570	1228650	a human interface device attack on it,
1228650	1231750	something that's going to simulate a keyboard and open up the terminal
1231750	1234610	and it's going to do lots of terrible stuff.
1234610	1236450	I've written plenty of them.
1237070	1241110	If you ever get into hit attacks, they're a lot of fun.
1241530	1245030	But if you only want a specific person to get them,
1245030	1247130	imagine if you're able to be a vendor at a party
1247130	1250510	or you're able to pose as a vendor at a party,
1250510	1255050	and everyone's getting their things and you could do some sort of grab bag switch,
1255050	1257470	which is super common in Magic.
1257550	1261390	They look very benign, but it basically makes it so
1261390	1263730	certain people can choose from one compartment
1263730	1266930	and another person can only choose from a specific compartment.
1267290	1273550	And it's a great way to get people to select a specific object.
1273850	1276270	Also, rigging a contest.
1276970	1279690	If you think about something like the lottery,
1279690	1283050	the whole lottery is based around making sure
1283050	1285870	that you can't force the value
1285870	1289410	of the ping pong ball. I don't know if they still do that.
1289410	1292130	But if you're able to force that value
1292130	1294730	or force the object of it,
1294730	1297950	that's all game over,
1297950	1300530	really. Another example is
1300530	1303070	if you could easily,
1303690	1306690	using a cross-site scripting exploit on a website,
1306690	1309530	you could change all of the link values on a website
1309530	1312730	and point it towards malicious software.
1313510	1315890	And, of course,
1315890	1318110	you can point it to a phishing website,
1318110	1321910	you can point it to a piece of software, malware, whatever you want.
1322570	1324450	But, of course, you're taking this
1324450	1327930	environment of open choices. They think that they can go anywhere,
1327930	1330390	but, of course, you're forcing them into a funnel.
1330390	1332410	They're forcing them to a single choice.
1332410	1337670	And then for a social engineering application,
1337670	1339950	if you had, for example,
1340170	1342390	a small directory of people, all with different
1342390	1344850	phone numbers and names, and
1345630	1348270	these are all your teammates, well,
1348270	1351550	if you get caught in an attack or someone wants to verify your credentials,
1351550	1354490	and instead of saying, here's my boss, go ahead
1354490	1357590	and call him, you're like, here's my team, I don't have time to deal
1357590	1360910	with this, because now you're putting weight on them.
1360910	1363810	But you're like, I don't have time to deal with this. Go ahead and call one of them and
1363810	1367010	they'll verify. Well, they're ultimately
1367010	1369350	going to end up with the same person, but
1369910	1372670	that illusion of choice, it makes it seem
1372670	1375670	there's a legitimacy behind quantity.
1376490	1378750	Because if I was a vendor,
1378750	1381490	and it's the difference between going into
1382110	1384930	a place and handing out a handful of
1384930	1387730	flash drives from a baggie, and then
1387730	1390430	having a box of 2,000 of them,
1390430	1393610	one of them, you're going to go, okay, that guy's clearly handing out
1393610	1396590	viruses, and another one, you're going to go, oh, maybe
1397490	1399850	who's going to create 2,000 pieces of
1399850	1402730	malicious hardware? I mean, I might. That sounds
1402730	1406150	like a great attack, actually. Expensive, but it could be useful.
1407110	1409150	If we could go ahead and get to the next slide.
1410830	1412070	And the magic applications
1412070	1414750	of multiple apps. There's a couple
1415670	1417870	of... there's hundreds of tricks.
1417870	1420530	There's thousands. You can find these in
1420530	1422510	books everywhere, but
1423290	1426690	I actually came up with a small little bar bet for this.
1426690	1429490	And the idea is pretty simple. If you play a game of
1429490	1431410	rock, paper, scissors, and
1432370	1435410	the proposition is, I am going
1435410	1438610	to win this game of rock, paper, scissors on the first round.
1438770	1442050	And ultimately, whatever you do, you just pick rock.
1442050	1445470	So if they go rock, paper, scissors, and this person picks rock,
1445470	1448190	well, the idea is you can say, I told you I was going to win
1448190	1451110	on the first round, and that's why I chose paper. And all you do is you have
1451230	1454230	a piece of paper in your hand because they
1454230	1457170	chose rock. Now, let's say they went ahead and they chose
1457170	1460070	scissors. Of course, you win because it's rock. And if they went
1460070	1462990	ahead and they chose paper to cover you, unfortunately,
1462990	1466170	on your paper, you do have scissors.
1466170	1468570	I don't know if that can make it out, but
1470050	1472510	essentially, you understand the constraints
1472510	1475710	of where you're in. They have three choices to
1475710	1478710	pick from. And of course, it's a con, and you're more
1478710	1481710	likely going to get punched than rewarded,
1481710	1484590	but maybe you'll get a good laugh out of it.
1485370	1487690	But the idea is that you see the constraints
1487690	1490690	where they have three choices, and you're able
1490690	1494210	to account to every single one of them and make it work in your favor,
1494210	1497150	even if it is going to get you punched in the face.
1497810	1501530	Another one, this is a classic effect. There's a
1501530	1505070	queen's holdout. So if you were to have four queens,
1505070	1508070	what you can do is you can get these
1508070	1511690	sleeve garters. You can even do it with a rolled cuff.
1511690	1513710	But essentially, you put these queens
1513710	1517190	in your sleeve garter. They're pinned to your arm, and you spread
1517190	1520050	them like so. And I'll put them in a specific
1520050	1523090	order. It's called chased order. It's clubs, hearts,
1523090	1525110	spades, and diamonds. And all you do is
1525110	1528310	you have these on your sleeve, pinned,
1528310	1531230	and in an effect, you can have a queen
1531230	1534210	freely named and claim it's in your pocket. And
1534210	1537770	when you open up your jacket, instead of reaching into the pocket,
1537770	1540310	you reach into the sleeve, and
1540310	1543030	you can feel the index and easily
1543030	1546150	pull out whatever specific queen it is,
1546150	1549370	deposit it in your pocket as you're opening up your body language a little more,
1549370	1551690	revealing the queen. And of course,
1551690	1554910	the first thing that's going to happen is people are going to say,
1554910	1557790	there's more than one queen in there. So you can easily
1557790	1560770	empty that pocket completely. Then they might imply that
1560770	1563810	you have a queen in each pocket, and you're just going to change pockets,
1563810	1566910	which you can also easily disprove. And this is a good example
1566910	1569830	of an out, because they feel like
1569830	1573430	everything is clean, everything's happening into a single location,
1573430	1575350	but you've been able to determine
1576010	1577790	that there are four choices.
1577790	1580390	One of them has to end up here,
1580390	1583550	and you know a way to account for all of them,
1583550	1587130	whether it's through verbiage or it's through a physical manipulation,
1587130	1589490	albeit this one is very simple.
1590490	1592450	And then this is a classic, classic
1592450	1593630	in Magic.
1595010	1598090	You have them name any card, and you
1598090	1601590	weren't ready for the one they named. Often,
1601590	1604330	what I'll do is I will stack my deck,
1604330	1607610	but not in all 52 kind of way.
1607610	1610190	I will do something like a Queen of Hearts on top,
1610190	1613750	and like a Jack of Spades on the bottom, and then maybe in my pocket
1613750	1615490	I might have an Ace of Spades.
1615830	1619630	And I just have a mental catalog of what cards
1619630	1622010	get named the most. Usually
1622610	1625870	one of those, sometimes like a King of Clubs might get thrown in there.
1625870	1627570	And it depends on the person, really.
1628150	1630770	But if I'm ready with that Queen of Hearts on top, and I have
1630770	1633570	something that can blow someone's mind
1633570	1637270	if I have them name a card that I know is on the top of the deck,
1637270	1639950	then if they name it, great. If they name one of the other cards
1639950	1642390	in a different position, I work with that.
1642430	1645710	But if they don't name anything, it's not like
1645710	1649250	there's this massive failure. You don't know what my intention was.
1649790	1651750	If you went ahead and you
1651750	1654270	named the Nine of Spades, then I just go ahead and go,
1654270	1658150	okay, we'll use your free selected card. This is the one you were thinking about.
1658150	1661110	Now let's work with this. There's no force
1661110	1664710	in there. There's nothing that can make them go, oh, that was weird.
1664710	1667190	It's just, I'm having you select a card. You don't know
1667190	1670330	what's about to happen. And that's something that happens a lot in magic
1670330	1672970	is this concept of don't run
1672970	1675850	when no one is chasing you. And I feel like social
1675850	1679270	engineering can really gather a lot
1679270	1680010	from that because
1682690	1685230	when you're nervous, when you are
1685230	1688090	trying to make excuses for everything, when something doesn't work
1688090	1691010	exactly how you want it, that's when things fall
1691010	1694030	apart. People
1694030	1697130	are weird. People are just inherently
1697130	1700150	weird. And take advantage of
1700150	1703250	that. So no one is a mind reader. No one can see
1703250	1706070	exactly what you're about to do. Don't run
1706070	1709150	when you're not being chased. Let's go ahead and get to
1709150	1711970	the next section. This is the IRL application
1711970	1715010	of multiple outs. Originally,
1715010	1718110	I said this as a joke, but Batman is the master
1718110	1721090	of multiple outs, even the Adam West one.
1721230	1724030	And if you see here, he has both
1724030	1726890	he's clearly being attacked by a shark
1727590	1730150	but he's ready because he knows, he's like, I'm going to be
1730150	1732890	attacked by a manta ray repellent, by manta rays, or I'm going to be
1732890	1736110	attacked by a shark. And so he has repellents for both.
1736330	1739390	And if both of those don't work, then he has fists.
1739390	1743030	Batman is the king of multiple outs.
1743030	1745530	He is always ready for different scenarios, whether
1745530	1748410	it's Joker toxins, or maybe just
1748410	1752050	throwing someone off a building. Who cares? He's Batman.
1752050	1754570	But in actual real life, if we go to the
1754570	1757250	next slide, the IRL
1757250	1760530	applications of multiple outs, a really
1760530	1763610	good example that I've used
1763610	1766410	when I've done phishing attacks on
1766410	1767930	on jobs is
1769010	1772190	multi-layer phishing attacks. More often than not, a phishing
1772190	1775350	attack is, here's my website, I want
1775350	1778370	someone to go to it, and I want them to get tricked into going
1778370	1781190	in, and I want them to try to
1781190	1784730	type in their information, and I want them to send it to me, and I want to log it.
1785670	1786450	No.
1787030	1789710	Phishing attacks need to get way more sophisticated.
1790390	1793050	And through multiple outs, you could easily
1793050	1796190	do that. So if you think about it,
1797350	1799270	you need to figure out what are all your
1799270	1802970	constraints, and how can you have an outcome that serves you the best.
1802970	1805310	So if you take phishing websites, for example,
1805310	1808270	think about the outcomes. One, they
1808270	1810830	leave immediately. Two, they type in their
1811250	1814130	info, then they read the URL at the last second,
1814130	1817250	and then they leave. Or three, they fall for it completely,
1817250	1818850	and then they send you your information.
1818850	1821370	All of those...
1821370	1824670	the only one that wins is the very last case.
1824670	1827610	But if you think about it,
1827610	1831030	what if you actually, when they type in their info,
1831030	1833870	you have a JavaScript keylogger that is taking note of
1833870	1835990	everything they're sending, and it's sending it off to
1837070	1839590	a command server. Every time.
1839590	1841950	Anytime you make a phishing website, put a keylogger on it.
1841950	1845530	Because I have gone onto websites plenty of times,
1845530	1848150	I start typing my username and password, and then the
1848150	1851770	oh shit moment hits, and then I read the URL, realize I'm fine,
1851770	1854690	and then I keep going. But if there was a keylogger
1854690	1856870	on that, I'd be fucked.
1857650	1860210	That would not be okay.
1860510	1863410	And then also, another way to serve yourself
1863630	1866370	a little bit better, if someone leaves
1866370	1869590	immediately, instead of letting them just
1869590	1872310	leave immediately, why not attempt to have a
1872310	1874530	JavaScript popup that uses
1875310	1878430	some identifiable trademark language
1878430	1881170	or a company name information from your
1881170	1884270	target, and it says, hey, we just
1884270	1887230	detected that this is a phishing website.
1887430	1890230	Go ahead and fill in this form
1890230	1893150	with your name or your email or your phone and your
1893150	1896610	extension. Get privileged information.
1897370	1899210	You might not get credentials,
1899210	1902130	but privileged information is also gold. Not everyone
1902130	1905130	has an easy-to-access company directory where you can
1905130	1908190	start flexing around and getting stuff like this. You can even have
1908190	1911110	when they try to leave a JavaScript popup that says,
1911110	1913790	great job, this is an internal test from the company.
1913790	1917050	You passed our security audit. Congratulations. Fill in this
1917050	1919710	form so we can make sure that your manager knows.
1920410	1923110	Boom. Taking advantage of that
1923110	1925890	desire to build and feel good about themselves,
1925890	1928650	you've given them more, and
1928650	1931030	all of these options are way better than
1931610	1934370	it either works or it doesn't.
1934650	1937430	And then, of course, there's the option that they might be able to
1937430	1940350	realize that there's a scam within the scam
1940890	1943470	and you can go as many layers
1943470	1946650	deep as you want with this. You can even follow up with an email
1946650	1949630	afterwards and be like, hey, we noticed this, and try to contact them
1949630	1952550	directly. But ultimately, those
1952550	1955690	three layers are better than the original one.
1956030	1958790	And an example of doing this in the physical world
1958790	1961350	is think about
1961350	1964750	crash key sets where you have keys for all of
1964750	1967710	the entry boxes in Los Angeles
1967710	1970590	or all of the elevator keys.
1970930	1973470	There have been so many DEF CON talks. There are so many
1973470	1976530	keys available. Everyone
1976530	1979630	is aware of these. There's also the TSA
1979630	1982510	key pack. Oh, bless the TSA.
1982510	1985470	They have made this so easy. They took the constraint of
1986590	1988750	everyone in an airport
1988750	1991290	has to have a bag with a lock
1991290	1993570	that fits this constraint.
1994770	1997750	What type of outs do you need to have to make sure you can
1997750	2001170	manage everything in this constraint? The TSA key pack.
2001230	2003170	You get a copy of each one of those keys
2003170	2006630	and suddenly you have an out for every single
2006630	2009550	lock. And this works, of course, for
2009550	2012790	other different systems. And
2012790	2015690	you can just kind of view that exercise of
2015690	2018270	think about challenges in a security scenario
2018790	2021910	where you say, what are the constraints? How many choices
2021910	2024470	are there? What are all the permutations of this?
2024750	2028190	And how many can I realistically have a response to?
2028290	2031090	And then how many can you do if you're being unrealistic?
2031190	2033810	Maybe it takes having 400 different
2033810	2037190	ISP uniforms in a van. Screw it. If it gets you in the
2037190	2040310	building, it gets you in the building. Basically,
2040310	2042850	any plan B attacks or additional layers
2043350	2045630	in real life, that makes for a good
2045630	2048630	multiple out. Can we get the next slide?
2050970	2051450	So
2052210	2055250	stage whispers. This is actually something that's used
2055250	2058410	in both magic and also just on stage.
2058430	2061150	Normally, a stage whisper on stage is just like
2061150	2064250	you're communicating a direction that the audience isn't supposed to know
2064250	2066770	about it. You can have full conversations on stage
2067170	2069330	depending on the size of where you're at.
2070930	2073290	But in magic, a stage whisper is
2073730	2075870	you call up an audience member.
2075890	2078770	You don't make a fanfare or anything.
2078770	2081990	You bring them up. And while you're bringing them up, you look them in the eyes
2082390	2085510	helping them up and you say, what is your name? But you don't say it loudly.
2085510	2087950	You don't move your mouth a whole lot. You don't articulate.
2087950	2090750	They say, I'm John.
2090970	2093830	And you pull them up and you do a magic trick.
2093830	2095990	You do whatever, maybe it's a mentalism piece.
2096230	2099010	And you're doing your mentalism piece and then you say
2099950	2102190	and your name is John.
2102190	2105110	And everyone loses their mind when they nod because
2105730	2107830	you've just figured out their name.
2107830	2110710	And then you quickly have to hush them because
2110710	2114110	you're like, no, this isn't where the magic begins.
2114110	2115650	I'm more magical than this.
2115650	2119730	And to John, it just looks like you're telling them, oh no, that wasn't actually magic.
2119730	2121730	But this is an example of a dual reality.
2121730	2125650	This is where the audience thinks one very specific thing
2125650	2128090	and John is aware of a completely different thing.
2128090	2130830	But the thing is, is that you don't want John
2131690	2133350	to be in on it.
2133350	2136990	You want him to be an unwilling participant.
2136990	2140190	And you're doing this with an ambiguity of language.
2140190	2142350	You're doing this with an ambiguity of knowledge.
2142590	2146070	Another effect, and this is a classic thing,
2146070	2148570	you have a box set aside.
2148570	2152390	You have a watch, a knife, and a card.
2152410	2155570	And on the card, it simply says, I have the card,
2155570	2158510	you have the knife, the watch is in the box.
2158650	2159950	It's very simple.
2160190	2164030	And you place these objects. You let your audience member shuffle them around.
2164030	2166650	Your person that you're doing this is great for one-on-one.
2166650	2170670	And you say, put both hands on any two of these objects.
2170670	2172570	The box is set aside. It's not part of this.
2172970	2174630	And let's say they put their hands
2175410	2178270	on the knife and the card.
2180230	2181890	And you go ahead and you say,
2181890	2184370	okay, hand one of those to me and you take one,
2184370	2187110	leaving the watch on the table and you go ahead and just put it in the box.
2187230	2190690	If they get the card, you say, read what the card says.
2190690	2194330	And then they read it out loud and all of the qualifications for it are true.
2194330	2197830	If you end up with the card, you simply read it out loud.
2197830	2200410	And all the qualifications are true because it's from your perspective.
2200610	2202950	The only instance where it gets a little weird
2202950	2206210	is if they put both of their hands on the watch
2206210	2209490	and one of the other objects. But you say,
2209490	2211850	okay, now go ahead and lift up one of your hands.
2212090	2214850	And if they lift up the hand
2215910	2218590	that's on the knife, you can go ahead
2218590	2221250	and say, okay, we'll set these aside.
2222370	2224950	And then the watch, I want you to put that in the box.
2224990	2227370	If they lift their hand off of the watch,
2227370	2230310	you say, okay, we'll discard the watch. And this gets back
2230310	2233550	into the idea of you don't want to do the same trick twice
2233550	2236910	because this is a perfect example of if someone watches this twice,
2236910	2239130	it's instantly going to fall apart. But
2239890	2242590	if you can present this well and you can present
2242590	2245670	your equivocate well and your method for it and your language
2245670	2248190	and your confidence in it and how much you believe
2248190	2251390	what you say is happening is happening, it becomes
2251390	2254270	the truth. It's no longer optional. It is
2254270	2256690	the truth. And that's why magic
2256690	2259970	magicians like Aaron Brown are so effective
2259970	2263790	because when he speaks, it's the truth.
2263970	2266270	And that's absolutely wonderful.
2266430	2268850	And then another effect is called
2268850	2271910	ashen hand. Earlier I did a slide
2271910	2275190	where I asked if someone's right-handed or left-handed and it didn't
2275190	2278250	matter. The reason for this is
2278250	2281250	for an effect called ashen hand. What you do is you have
2281250	2284230	someone put both of their hands out flat like this. And all you do
2284230	2287130	is you grab their hand and you adjust them a little bit like this. You maybe
2287130	2290550	move it lower or higher. You give some bullshit stage direction.
2290610	2292870	And what you're doing is you're secretly
2292870	2295710	depositing a little bit of ash on your finger onto
2295710	2299650	their left hand. You can do it on their right. It doesn't really matter.
2299670	2302630	But you're going to force one of those hands with an equivocate.
2302630	2305530	And so let's say you put it on their right.
2305530	2308490	So you smudge it on their right hand and their hands are like this.
2308490	2311970	You've moved them. They now have a smudge. You are now completely hands-free.
2311970	2314350	And then you say, are you right-handed or left-handed?
2314530	2317670	And this is where that choice makes it seem like they have full
2317670	2320750	control over the situation. They say, I'm left-handed. You say,
2320750	2323450	okay, great. We want to use your weak hand. So we're going to use your
2323450	2326130	right hand. And go ahead and drop your left hand.
2326530	2329470	They leave it out. If they say, I'm right-handed. You say,
2329470	2332430	okay, leave your right hand out and drop your left.
2332830	2336670	You have them make a fist. And from here,
2336670	2338530	all you have to do is take a little bit of ash
2338530	2341730	and you sprinkle it on the back of their hands and rub it in until it
2341730	2344310	vanishes. That's not the magic.
2345230	2347410	But you can play that up.
2347410	2349910	Whatever your character, whatever your writing is.
2349930	2353150	But then you say that the ash has gone through their hand and has ended up
2353590	2356730	inside of their palm and they open up and then they have ash
2356730	2359910	inside of their hand. And the reason why this is magical is
2359910	2362650	because you've been stepped away.
2362930	2365970	Even if they remember the actual fact that they made a choice of which
2365970	2368590	hand, it's couldn't...
2368590	2371690	because it's not on both hands. It's only on the one. And you never
2371690	2374870	touched them because you've made this memory
2374870	2377810	of, hey, you're fucking up. I'm helping you here.
2377810	2380810	They're going to wipe that. And that's a perfect
2380810	2383790	example of taking that snapshot as well
2383790	2386310	as using an equivocate and that vague intent
2386310	2388950	on your question to make them
2389630	2391850	follow instructions with you a little bit better.
2392210	2394110	If we can go ahead to the next slide.
2395290	2397630	Real life applications of equivocate.
2399810	2400930	Honestly,
2400930	2403930	equivocates are best for inferred information.
2403930	2406950	On a job, let's say you notice on Facebook the big boss
2406950	2410150	had a barbecue. You're doing some big
2410150	2413150	red team thing. And you want everyone to...
2413710	2416190	you've done a bunch of research. You know the guy that runs the building
2416190	2419170	or whatever. His name is Bob. And you can now
2419170	2422090	weaponize the fact that he had a barbecue that weekend because
2423090	2425290	while you're building rapport with one of
2425290	2427750	your targets, you can say, hey, were you at Bob's barbecue?
2427890	2431090	And they have two realistic responses. They can either say yes or they can
2431090	2434210	say no. And by leveraging this, because of this vague
2434210	2437210	intent, this vague language, you can make it seem like you're either
2437210	2440310	invited but didn't go, which makes that person
2440310	2443130	your equal instantly because you're now... they were invited
2443130	2446070	to the barbecue. So were you. And if they
2446070	2449150	didn't know about it or they didn't go, you can now be their
2449150	2452130	superior. You are now the person that's friends with the big boss
2452130	2454710	and they aren't. And suddenly
2454710	2458150	this relationship dynamic, one, you've inserted
2458150	2460990	yourself close to someone that they're
2460990	2463610	supposed to respect and be under. But also
2463610	2466690	you have given yourself a history.
2466710	2469510	You have a background story just from one single piece of
2469510	2471590	information and a vague question.
2472930	2475270	And more often than not, though, in magic
2475270	2478610	you leverage your social position to get away with
2478610	2481930	equivocates. It allows you to get away with things that might not make sense.
2481930	2484570	But when it comes to influencing people's choices in real
2484570	2488170	life using equivocate, people say no and they'll walk away.
2488930	2490930	You can't make realistic situations
2491950	2494690	by forcing people to choose things with equivocates.
2494690	2497910	It's very weird. But you can get away with it,
2497910	2500590	but you have to be a bit of a jerk and you have to write it
2500590	2503390	off as a misunderstanding later and you have to act quickly.
2504490	2506070	An example of doing this with
2506070	2509370	an ambiguous intent is, I don't know how many people know
2509370	2512250	about the trick of asking when your partner says, hey, I'm
2512250	2515270	hungry, you say, and instead of saying, okay, where do you want
2515270	2518470	to go eat? You say, I already know where I want to take you, but you have to guess.
2518890	2521790	And then they do. And instead of being like, oh,
2521790	2524370	you're right, you just take them there because you use this
2524370	2526850	ambiguous intent. They don't know
2526850	2530350	any of the information that you know, but it's basically
2530350	2533370	just a big lie to get them to give you more information.
2533770	2535990	And sometimes people don't even know it themselves.
2537590	2539490	And another way
2539490	2542930	I've noticed equivocate in real life is in dark patterns.
2543010	2545410	A lot of them, if you're not familiar with what a dark pattern is
2545410	2547690	on the Internet, is when a UI
2548350	2551310	is creating language
2551310	2554010	or is creating a UI experience
2555750	2557490	around sometimes preventing you
2557490	2560430	from doing something or trying to mitigate
2560430	2563730	the amount of people doing a specific action.
2563730	2566270	Like, I don't know if you've ever tried to cancel an Amazon account,
2566270	2569570	but there's like 16 menus to go through. And it's ridiculous.
2569570	2572310	And that's the dark pattern. And a quick dark pattern here
2572310	2575290	is do not uncheck this box
2575290	2578390	if you wish to be contacted via about product updates,
2578390	2581390	upgraded special offers, and pricing. It doesn't make sense.
2581750	2584850	It's confusing. It's vague. It's ambiguous.
2585130	2587350	And it's how they're preventing you from doing
2587350	2591050	an action, which is unsubscribing, which is something that they don't want you to do.
2591850	2593390	And actually, even in our game,
2594010	2596690	which if you haven't had a chance to check out the Rogues Village game,
2596690	2599170	go for it. It's beautiful, lots of fun.
2599170	2602510	But we have an Equivoque Easter egg hidden there.
2602550	2605370	You're asked what one of your strengths are.
2605590	2607990	And regardless of what you respond with,
2607990	2611150	we're always going to give you the same item because we're either going to
2611150	2614430	bolster your weaknesses or we're going to enhance
2614430	2617430	your strength. And it doesn't matter, but it's an Equivoque,
2617430	2620470	but you feel like you have a free choice, but both
2620470	2622690	paths lead to the same road. And
2623150	2626370	once again, it comes down to those constraints. You're figuring
2626370	2629370	out what paths you have available to you and how can you merge them
2629370	2632470	in a direction that you want. And let's
2632470	2634990	go ahead and get to the takeaways.
2637370	2638330	Forces are
2638330	2642170	direct decisions that the target has zero control in.
2642530	2644290	This is good for direct attacks that
2644290	2647710	introduce a specific object. For example,
2647710	2650450	if you're using a switch bag for getting in a piece of hardware
2650990	2653810	or maybe forcing a value on
2653810	2656970	something like a contest or a lottery, multiple
2656970	2659890	outs are fully free selections that you
2659890	2662890	cannot control. You can't control the amount of
2662890	2666030	constraints. You can accept them, but you can be prepared
2666030	2669030	for them. And this is good for having responses for a narrow
2669030	2671810	selection of answers. For example,
2672610	2674670	a deck of cards is a 52 question
2676070	2677670	object. And
2677670	2681030	once you can figure out how to mitigate those 52
2681030	2683770	questions, it becomes a lot easier to deal with. And
2683770	2687430	equivocates, they're for creating ambiguity around definitions,
2687430	2690190	allowing your will to be imposed on a target.
2691390	2693250	Equivocates aren't perfect,
2693250	2695850	but it allows you to enhance
2695850	2699310	your percentages. And it's great
2699310	2702030	for warping decisions or creating
2702030	2704910	inferred knowledge. And the next slide,
2704910	2708010	this is the defensive takeaways. I think this is something that
2708770	2710130	everyone can actually
2711650	2714170	gather something from, whether you're in security, whether
2714170	2717130	you're in magic, or you're just a plain Joe.
2717290	2719710	Because scams exist everywhere.
2720270	2723350	But also, please don't ever do this to magicians. I beg
2723350	2726090	of you. If I have someone do this to me and I'm doing a magic trick and it turns
2726090	2728530	out they saw this talk, I'm going to be very sad.
2728830	2732010	But forces, if you feel like you didn't have a free choice,
2732690	2735010	attempt to make another one where you can
2735010	2738070	change the rules of the selection. Be prepared for an
2738070	2740750	out. Always be ready to
2740750	2743910	try to change your choice. If you're at that car lot and they say,
2743910	2747110	here's the green Subaru. And you can say, let me look at another
2747110	2750010	green Subaru. And if they're really antsy about that,
2750870	2752910	maybe just leave. You're
2752910	2755770	an adult. Go buy a car somewhere else.
2756870	2759030	Multiple outs. Go through the
2759030	2761790	scenarios. What were your actual choices here?
2761790	2764730	Because maybe you're actually in a force. Maybe you're
2764730	2767930	in an equivocate. But go through your scenarios
2767930	2771190	and see if it's possible to prepare for each of them.
2771190	2774690	And if that intent on that preparation could be negative to you.
2775090	2776810	And like I said,
2776810	2779570	try to change your mind. Try to change the rules.
2779570	2782850	If you can change the rules or you can change your mind, you have a lot more
2782850	2785390	freedom. But also,
2785390	2788770	chances that you can never be 100% sure. So always
2788770	2792130	be able to stand your ground and redact.
2792410	2795610	In equivocates, when you're given vague decisions,
2795610	2797830	verify the intent of the question and what
2797830	2800470	responses will be used for.
2800910	2803810	So if you get a weird question and it
2803810	2807810	seems very open-ended and weird and it's not from someone you trust,
2808410	2809790	clarify what they want to use
2809790	2813010	the answer for. You don't have to answer questions.
2813010	2815730	You don't have to answer someone you've never met
2815730	2818250	who's asking you in an elevator if you went to Bob's BBQ.
2818250	2821610	You can say, what does it matter to you, guy? I don't know you.
2821850	2824010	That's my purse. Get away from here.
2824370	2827470	Always validate. And that's pretty much it.
2827470	2830730	If you can validate, if you can change your mind, if you can change
2830730	2832050	the rules or
2833350	2835850	what gives you your selection of answers,
2835850	2839270	you'll be safe. Or safer, as it were.
2839530	2842550	And I think that's pretty much it. Yeah, I think I'm ready
2842550	2844930	for my Q&A, Jay.
2846970	2848810	So first up,
2849590	2851570	0x90, in your experience,
2851570	2854290	what is the percentage of time that somebody uses
2854290	2858850	some of the defense mechanisms you discussed?
2859910	2860450	Yeah,
2860450	2865250	when it comes to doing this in a magic scenario,
2865250	2866490	it really
2866490	2870410	depends on how you're approaching.
2870410	2873650	I've noticed that if you treat anything that you're doing
2873650	2876770	in magic like a puzzle, people will shut down
2876770	2879250	and they will inherently get defensive
2879250	2882290	and they will not want to interact. Where if you haven't
2882290	2885630	selected a card, they'll wait until the very end because they don't trust you
2885630	2887970	and it's because you haven't built up rapport.
2888610	2891090	So it's a case-by-case scenario.
2891090	2893330	It happens on an individual basis.
2894370	2896910	The longer I've been doing magic, though,
2896910	2898350	the less it has happened.
2900190	2902930	It's gotten to the point for me... I remember when I first started
2902930	2906070	almost 10 years ago, when I would be doing a trick
2906070	2907510	and then someone would say,
2907510	2910670	let me see those cards. And I'd be like, oh, no.
2910670	2912610	And I would shut down and get all clammy.
2912810	2915610	And all of a sudden, there goes all the magic.
2915790	2919930	But now, I could have something that I'm preparing
2919930	2924530	for hours ahead of time and I have every single card exactly where I need it.
2924530	2927810	If someone says, whatever, magic boy, let me see that deck,
2927810	2930750	I want to shuffle it, and it's not a show where I can tell them to go
2930750	2933930	screw themselves, I'm going to hand them the deck and say,
2933930	2937030	okay, shuffle it, and I will change my entire set
2937030	2940230	just to preserve that magic.
2941690	2942790	But basically,
2942790	2945870	short answer, as you get better, the longer you do it,
2945870	2948310	it happens less and less. It was at a point where it was maybe
2948870	2951050	1 out of 10 people, and now
2951050	2953910	maybe if I'm performing a lot, it might happen
2953910	2957010	once a month. But it really depends on
2957010	2959870	how able you're to disarm your people
2959870	2963330	and how much you can connect with them. Because if you're
2963330	2966130	their friend before you start doing magic, they're not going to be
2966230	2967290	a jerk to their friend.
2968430	2972330	Someone asked the question, are you right-handed or left-handed?
2973290	2975290	I am right-handed.
2975290	2977370	I don't know exactly how
2977370	2980550	the screen stuff is set up, so it might appear
2980550	2983390	that this is my left hand, but I am right-handed.
2984410	2985890	And we have a question
2985890	2989310	for you, another one. What kind of ash is it
2989310	2992170	that you're talking about? Something special or just burnt paper?
2992170	2993990	Do you make the ash yourself?
2994610	2998450	Actually, this is a classic impromptu effect.
2998890	3001870	You used to do it originally with a cigar ash.
3001990	3004470	The reason why it was neat is because you could just
3004470	3008030	quickly dip your thumb in an ash tray,
3008030	3010830	which is disgusting if it's public, but you know,
3010830	3013090	it's magic. We do disgusting stuff sometimes.
3013590	3016890	And then you can just sit at a party with your thumb behind your hand
3016890	3019090	as you're gesticulating and talking to people.
3019110	3022690	And you can go ahead and do the effect that way.
3022710	3024690	But basically, cigarette ash.
3024730	3027810	You might potentially want to do this a different way.
3028170	3030650	There are a couple of other effects that have
3031090	3034190	taken this approach and they are published
3034190	3036770	and they're still currently manufactured. So if you want to
3036770	3040110	go ahead and DM me, I'll actually give you a link
3040110	3042950	to the product. I don't make anything off of it. I just don't
3042950	3045950	want to imply that it uses the same equivocate and stuff
3045950	3048630	because I didn't make the effect itself.
3048670	3051830	But it's very good and it's modern. You've probably seen it on
3051830	3053370	AGT. It's great.
3054430	3057730	We have one person
3057730	3060110	that is claiming you as a Fed.
3061270	3063770	Oh, who's claiming me as a Fed?
3064850	3067070	What's their social security number?
3068910	3071230	No, I'm not a Fed.
3071410	3073030	I have way too much hair.
3073030	3076070	I have so much hair, especially for being a Fed,
3076070	3079390	that you can't actually tell that I'm wearing Bose headphones.
3079450	3081930	Like the full ear cup.
3083130	3085170	Feds don't have this much hair.
3085170	3087570	But no, I'm not a Fed.
3087610	3091930	I'm a software engineer. I've done some security contract stuff.
3093270	3093750	Ultimately...
3093750	3096930	If you want to find me on Twitter, DM me and I'll
3096930	3100410	send you my page. And you can be very disappointed.
3101810	3103110	That's beautiful.
3103230	3106130	I'm going to wait for one more question
3106130	3107510	that's coming in.
3109630	3112050	I think we can probably just field that on the Discord.
3112050	3115850	I'm going to give them 10 seconds to get a 10, 9, 8, 7, 6...
3115850	3116930	I mean, Jade's typing.
3116930	3119150	Oh, okay. Alright.
3120090	3121830	Ooh, AngelRain's typing.
3124190	3127090	Maybe if I just keep saying people are typing, I'll get more and more.
3127090	3129730	Maybe they'll just start typing and never fill it.
3130570	3132050	Alright, to what extent
3132710	3136190	admitting a failure can be used as an out?
3137270	3139370	So, I wouldn't ever consider
3140770	3143750	a flat-out failure as an out.
3144170	3146030	There have been times where I have
3146030	3148090	set up for an effect
3149230	3151570	and you're so far in it.
3151570	3154170	It's like where you're at the table and you need to turn over the card
3154170	3156890	and it has to be your thing. And there have been some times
3158170	3158990	years ago
3160110	3163110	where I've turned that card over and it's the wrong thing
3163110	3165230	and there's just no way of getting back to it.
3165230	3168450	And I say, ladies and gentlemen, this is theater. It's live.
3168450	3170190	I am so sorry.
3170590	3172370	This is a fuck up.
3173170	3176270	And every magician this has happened to.
3176950	3179630	But ideally, if you have
3179630	3181230	even the smallest window
3181230	3183790	or where you can be clever about something
3185550	3188630	you rarely have to accept failure.
3188850	3191730	If I'm doing something that is dramatic
3191730	3195190	and there is a lot of intention and emotion
3195190	3197950	behind a certain moment or meaning behind something
3199690	3201010	artistically, I make the decision
3201010	3203790	to take the fall and the full blame of it.
3204730	3206970	Similar to singing a horrible note
3206970	3209790	on stage and you just kind of go
3209790	3212490	I'm sorry, but I have my artistic integrity
3212490	3215730	and I'm not going to do jazz magic over this to try to recover.
3218770	3219750	I think
3219750	3221550	that might be it.
3222610	3224650	But thank you 0x90.
3224730	3227490	Oh wait, sorry, this will be the last one.
3227490	3230230	And then we'll cut it after this so we can feel them in the Discord.
3231050	3234730	But this is a good one to end with. Who inspires you the most?
3235390	3236210	Jeez.
3237730	3240930	This is a really, really good question.
3241450	3243490	I have a couple of answers for this
3243490	3246090	but just to keep this short
3246090	3249050	I would have to say the late Ricky Jay
3249050	3250910	and the late Johnny Thompson.
3251290	3255530	Both different worlds, different styles of performing
3256630	3257990	but reading
3257990	3261350	Ricky's depth of knowledge
3261350	3262450	and how much he
3263770	3266150	is passionate about his craft
3266150	3269770	and elevating it to the level of art is beautiful to me
3269770	3273390	and Johnny Thompson being this
3273390	3276670	encyclopedia of magic where he knows just about everything
3276670	3279410	and he's very good and cares about things deeply
3279410	3284090	but they approach it differently.
3284090	3286010	Johnny Thompson is about making sure people are
3286010	3287610	entertained and doing it well
3287610	3289430	and Ricky Jay is about the
3291870	3293630	total experience of theater
3294190	3297970	and he sees this theater that he alone sees in his head.
3297970	3300790	It's just him. And he has this idea of what makes it perfect
3300790	3304810	and he's very aggressive about it and I love it.
3307050	3309290	Sorry, I lied to you. Last one.
3310410	3313370	But AOD wants you to speak to the idea
3313370	3316030	that a magician can sneak out of a failure
3316030	3319010	because the audience doesn't know
3319010	3320730	exactly what's supposed to happen.
3321690	3323090	Yeah, exactly.
3324630	3327750	Don't run when no one's chasing you.
3327750	3331610	If I pull out a card
3331610	3333330	and it's like the reveal
3333330	3336910	and I know it's not it. I figured it out.
3336910	3338330	That is not it.
3338890	3341670	You can attempt to backtrack.
3343670	3345530	There are effects.
3345530	3347590	There's a thing called an invisible deck.
3347590	3349270	It's wonderful and it allows you
3352730	3354850	to summon any card
3355910	3358570	For example, if you ever screw up so badly
3358570	3362230	that it's irredeemable, you can keep something like that on your person
3362230	3365270	and just be like, well, actually I did this.
3365270	3367590	And then you did this whole other effect.
3367590	3370310	You can always move on to something else.
3370310	3373830	No one knows that you're about to have the card come to the top of the deck
3373830	3377010	47 times in a row. Maybe on the 22nd one
3377010	3379430	you screw it up
3379430	3382190	and you can just move into something else.
3382190	3385370	You can just make a joke about it and be like, I guess it died after 21
3385370	3388590	and move on. And it depends on your personality.
3388850	3392050	And honestly, the calmer you are
3392050	3394730	the more ready you are to accept
3394730	3397730	something getting screwed up and just moving on with it
3397730	3400470	people will never remember it. People seldom
3400470	3403090	I have come off of
3403090	3406970	so many performances where I screwed one thing up
3406970	3408410	and I had to recover like that
3408410	3411150	and it affects me to the point where
3411590	3413050	I become so upset
3413050	3417450	like I need hours by myself to think about
3417450	3419330	how I'm such an idiot and I screwed something up
3419330	3423370	and I've never had a single person ever point it out
3423370	3425750	and even professional magicians
3425750	3427990	I'm like, yeah, but I did this and I screwed this thing up
3427990	3431170	and they're like, oh, I thought you were just going into this effect that way.
3431190	3435250	I had no clue. No one cares. No one's chasing you.
3436490	3437650	Awesome.
3437770	3441910	That will conclude our Q&A portion for this talk.
3441910	3444230	Thank you, RX980, for everything.
3444410	3445770	Yeah, thank you.