[00:00.000 --> 00:04.600]  We're at the DEF CON 30 Biohacking Village CTF, which is going on.
[00:04.600 --> 00:10.520]  And unlike any other CTF, you're not breaking into networks or web servers or anything like that.
[00:10.620 --> 00:14.840]  You're doing biohacking. Can you tell me a little bit more about the CTF?
[00:14.840 --> 00:21.140]  So the CTF is really built for both sides of our village.
[00:21.140 --> 00:24.620]  So that would be the healthcare part and the cybersecurity part.
[00:24.620 --> 00:29.780]  And we really want them to get together. So we level the knowledge and then we build it.
[00:30.340 --> 00:36.940]  We're not exactly breaking into things, but we are doing anything from non-technical challenges.
[00:36.940 --> 00:42.020]  So that could be learning about misinformation and disinformation in healthcare, which then
[00:42.020 --> 00:47.160]  affects your decision making about your health and others.
[00:47.160 --> 00:53.080]  But we then have mobile challenges because there are COVID apps.
[00:53.080 --> 00:57.260]  We are talking about reverse engineering of a hospital.
[00:57.260 --> 01:02.980]  The whole theme is called Hospital Heist. So a hospital gets attacked and we bring people to
[01:03.580 --> 01:07.200]  look at what's happening in the hospital and trying to find what's happening.
[01:07.200 --> 01:11.220]  And it goes all the way through reverse engineering.
[01:11.220 --> 01:17.380]  But also we have our open source pulse oximeter that people engage with.
[01:17.380 --> 01:19.800]  We have our own little dark web.
[01:19.800 --> 01:26.840]  So we teach people how it looks like in healthcare and whatever is being stolen and sold on a dark web.
[01:26.840 --> 01:30.500]  All the way through to hacking through infusion pumps.
[01:30.500 --> 01:35.460]  Oh, wow. Now you said something about learning about disinformation in healthcare.
[01:35.460 --> 01:39.120]  Can you give me an example of something that you would learn about here about that?
[01:39.120 --> 01:43.880]  Well, pretty much. I think the biggest example would be COVID.
[01:43.880 --> 01:47.000]  So there was lots of misinformation and disinformation.
[01:47.000 --> 01:53.160]  So we are trying to teach people how to have better knowledge and understanding of not only
[01:53.160 --> 01:58.500]  the terms that we are using, but also how does it look like and how to deal with it.
[01:58.500 --> 02:04.360]  So how if you're someone that you know comes with something that you already know that is
[02:04.460 --> 02:08.740]  a misinformation, disinformation, how to talk to them, how to change their mind,
[02:08.740 --> 02:12.660]  because it's often very, very difficult. So it's one of those.
[02:12.660 --> 02:17.760]  But people are also sharing with us. We're trying to have a two-way conversation about
[02:18.380 --> 02:22.360]  what would they do if something like this happens to them.
[02:22.360 --> 02:27.320]  I think our CTF is also really focused on the learning.
[02:27.320 --> 02:32.020]  So we have our Discord where we have a support team that always helps people to
[02:33.040 --> 02:38.920]  put them on the right path and talk to them. And because we really don't, it's not one of
[02:38.920 --> 02:44.240]  those that where we drop people into it and you do something and we leave you to it.
[02:44.240 --> 02:49.380]  Here we really talk to people all the way through solving all these challenges.
[02:49.380 --> 02:54.120]  Man, it's a lot of information. And what's interesting about this is,
[02:54.120 --> 02:58.160]  it sounds like a core of the CTF is better communication skills.
[02:58.240 --> 03:01.360]  Being able to talk with people, being able to empathize with them,
[03:01.360 --> 03:04.980]  knowing what their struggle is, and then trying to work through that communication.
[03:04.980 --> 03:09.840]  And I think oftentimes other CTFs would worry about the technical aspects of hacking
[03:10.400 --> 03:16.180]  and not really what might amount to the more important side of things.
[03:16.180 --> 03:20.420]  Would you agree that communication is almost more important than the technical things?
[03:20.420 --> 03:28.200]  I would say it is. I definitely come from a background in social engineering,
[03:28.200 --> 03:34.860]  so I think the human element in it, especially in healthcare, is very, very important.
[03:34.860 --> 03:43.720]  But for us, you're right in a way that we are running the CTF also for physicians and nurses.
[03:43.720 --> 03:47.940]  Here, the communication about the technical aspects is really, really important.
[03:47.940 --> 03:50.760]  So it's definitely at the core of what we are doing.
[03:50.760 --> 03:55.420]  But the technical side of it, it's there too, because at the end of the day,
[03:55.420 --> 04:00.520]  we are trying to teach people that a hospital environment is very complex.
[04:00.820 --> 04:06.120]  And it's anything we're talking about, ICS, industrial control systems, it's HVAC.
[04:06.120 --> 04:12.640]  Or we are talking about mobile challenges. We have POS payment systems in there.
[04:12.640 --> 04:17.920]  So it's very, very... it's almost anything that you can think of, you find it in a hospital.
[04:17.920 --> 04:23.840]  So that's what we are trying to teach people, to show them walking away afterwards,
[04:23.840 --> 04:26.260]  to have this sort of understanding.
[04:26.260 --> 04:31.560]  I know disaster recovery is significantly different within a hospital versus a corporation.
[04:31.560 --> 04:35.200]  In a corporation, you go, okay, these are the... here's the critical aspects,
[04:35.200 --> 04:41.200]  where like these... within a hospital, things like AC all of a sudden becomes lives,
[04:41.200 --> 04:45.160]  where in a corporation, not so much.
[04:45.660 --> 04:47.760]  Unless it's maybe in the server room.
[04:47.760 --> 04:53.580]  And anyway, point being, it's very clear, different identifying risks at a hospital.
[04:53.580 --> 04:59.480]  I imagine a lot of that technology too isn't built with, here is what the ideal hospital is,
[04:59.480 --> 05:02.860]  but hospitals start small and they grow and grow and grow.
[05:02.860 --> 05:05.520]  And then there's other... there's different practices in hospitals,
[05:05.520 --> 05:08.160]  which complicate the networks even more.
[05:08.800 --> 05:13.180]  This whole... this is the first time I've been in this village and what's crazy about it
[05:13.180 --> 05:17.340]  is that there's not just one village with... or there's biohacking,
[05:17.340 --> 05:22.240]  but there's biohacking labs, there's biohacking talks and the biohacking capture the flag.
[05:22.240 --> 05:26.420]  This has been fascinating hearing that this is a communication.
[05:26.420 --> 05:29.860]  It's a learning one. I love hearing about these learning challenges.
[05:30.020 --> 05:33.240]  So Sharka, thank you so much for your time.
[05:33.240 --> 05:35.980]  Thanks for sharing. I know you have to get back to Discord.
[05:35.980 --> 05:39.480]  Thanks for watching and as always, hack on!