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    "text": " Good morning and welcome back. We're here with live CTF day 2. I'm Mark. I'm Josh. And we're bringing to you the first of day 2 here. We've got two matches, head-to-head going on behind this wall. Speed match. We're looking at... we're going to have Undefined versus BlueWater on screen. And then we're going to have... SuperDiceCode versus NorseCode off screen. Now we're in the lower bracket here. Sorry to cut you off. But we're in lower bracket here. So a team that loses this is out. They're out of the entire bracket. Yeah, a lot of pressure is on. But we've got a good challenge cooked up for them and I think we're ready to start. I think we're good to go, except our production team has now turned into ghosts or are hiding. But we're good to go. We're good to go, so let's count it down. Yeah, together. 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Let's go. All right, and bear with us here as we figure out... There we go. All right, and so we're watching Undefined first. All right, Undefined. And so this challenge is called Jammer. And this is a special one because it's another throwback challenge to a time when things were a bit simpler, you know? Ah, better times. Yeah, really the golden age for vulnerabilities. But this is a stack buffer overflow. First Ghidra. Yeah, I think someone noted in the comments yesterday that it was 7 out of 8 teams that they watched had Ida and one Ghidra user. So I really like to see the variety. Yeah, we're starting off with Ida versus Ghidra battle of the second and third best reverse engineering tools. Yeah, you know, I'm a Binary Ninja fan myself, but... I'm a Binary Ninja dev myself. People use what they're used to and they're definitely all going to be... Absolutely. The best tool is the one you can use effectively. Exactly. And people do get really good at using their favorite. So let's... So, okay, we see again two different approaches here. We see Undefined going with... That's us. Team 2 overlay. All right, so we see Undefined. They started out a little bit doing, whatchamacallit, dynamic analysis. Just interacting with the program, seeing what it looks like. And now they're hopping back into Ghidra, trying to figure out where interaction starts, where they can go. What is this challenge? You wrote this challenge. Right, well, yes, I did. And this is, as I said, a throwback challenge. This is a challenge that was originally written for the DARPA Cyber Grand Challenge in 2016. Really? Yes, so it's a rematch of a rematch challenge, really. Nice. So shout out to Debbie Nuttall, who was the original author of the challenge. And I lightly modified it so it would fit for our scope here. But it is a throwback to a bug from 2002. If you remember the sequel, Slammer Worm? Slammer Worm? No, I don't think I was around for that one. Yeah, yeah, so early in 2003 is when sequel Slammer was taken over the internet. And so this is a stack-based buffer overflow, a classic stir copy. And so I think here what we're really going to be looking for is how fast can they find that? Slammer Jammer, I just got the, I like it. We're very clever here. So I was the one that verified this challenge. So I can say going from zero knowledge to a full solution on this challenge, it was pretty clean. You know, you figure an interaction flow with the program, and then you start building an idea of what to do, I want to say. Like, you're not lost in the sauce. Yeah, yeah, and it is, you know, a simplified challenge. The DARPA Cyber Grand Challenge was built to be, these challenges were built to be analyzed by automated competitors, which I think is funny because it's like the biggest data set ever produced to be looked at by machines, right? And so let's see how fast our competitors can figure this one out. So let's switch over and look at Blue Water here. All right, so they're going through, now this binary isn't stripped, is it? No. Okay, so they have some symbols to work with in the beginning. So they're going through, they're annotating different structs. And they're kind of figuring out, okay, so they're building a struct just called instance, and I think that's returned by create instance. So the names of these functions really do help you out with your first initial look around. Yeah, and so what's interesting with this is that we're actually seeing both competitors digging into the structs right away. And this is an interesting one because there's a decent bit here, but actually the vulnerability itself doesn't require any knowledge of the structure. Really? Oh, you're right. It's just a stack-based str copy. So a classic bug, very simple. And really the challenge here, because it's a speed race, is who can find it and exploit it faster? So this is kind of a reverse engineering pwn challenge. Like you need to find the right area first, obviously recognize the bug. But then popping a shell after that is, these guys should be used to it. Right, right. And so that's one of the things that I enjoy about this challenge in particular with the speed challenges is you just have to win first. And so one strategy, which I'm not seeing either competitor do, is to look at the key functions that might be the fast win functions. So you can see a reference on BlueWater's screen here. On the left-hand side you see the list of imports and you see str copy there. And str copy can be innocuous. Yeah, but do you see a stern copy and a str copy? I kind of raised an eyebrow at that and I'm like, the author left this in. That's true. And especially whenever you're dealing with strings in C code, you have to be careful. And so you want to, it's always reasonable to take a quick peek at those and see where it gets used. Oh, yeah. For as much flack as I give Go, they do strings better. I think C sets a pretty low bar. Yeah, maybe. What are you talking about? I'll never bash fgets. You know, as a friend of mine likes to say, no, I love C. I like bugs and I don't want it to go away. Yeah, I love C. I love my job. All right, so we see... Let's flip over here. Nope. Just hit this one right here. Just this. Yeah, no, we have a fancy new stream set up for day two. Jordan was here late and early setting stuff up, moving stuff around, so we have no idea what we're working with anymore. Thank you. I have to say it's very impressive and I'm very bad at using it so far, but we'll get there. It's the first match of the day. We're how many minutes in? Yeah. A couple. So as our competitors are digging into it here, they're doing the standard reverse engineering. Do you want to take a look at the bracket and sort of... Yeah, we can talk about the bracket, what we're going to see today. Yeah. So we've got, as you can see, it's a double elimination bracket. And so this was a number one feedback from last year, right? Oh, absolutely. Teams were upset that they got a challenge they weren't familiar with. We didn't tell them the categories last year either, which was an oversight on our part. But you were out after one match last year. And that was absolutely... we got feedback saying this is absolutely not what we want to do. That's so unfair and stressful. So it's a double elimination bracket this year, which means a lot more work for us, but a lot more fair for the teams. And honestly, that's a good tradeoff as far as we're concerned. Yeah, it's really good to see that because you can be really, really good. And as we said, sometimes you just notice something that your competitor doesn't and that can get you ahead real fast. Absolutely. And all these players are good, so we do want to see the best player come out on top. So switching over to Undefined. Let's see, what are they doing? Oh, that's... see, I don't use Ghidra. So all of these UIs are new to me, but they also look like they were before my time. Yeah, well, Ghidra... I mean, it's an impressive tool. You can do so much with it, and it is not my go-to, but their struct editor... I like the visual of the sizing going on and being able to pick out specific stuff. Oh, that's what that is down there. That's nice. Yeah, I like that. I'm not stealing ideas here. Yeah. Scoping out the competition. I got to say, though, with both Ida and Ghidra, I'm not a light theme guy. I really do prefer the dark theme. I definitely don't appreciate having two monitors with light themes blasting into our eyes. It's brighter than the studio lights we have here. It's definitely good to wake you up, though. Oh, absolutely. The coffee wasn't enough. All right, so they're still annotating strokes. They're still going through... They're kind of going through the normal CTF mindset of, OK, get all of my bearings, figure out what's going on. Then we look for the bug once I know what everything is. Yeah, well, once you've got a decent bit of annotation here, I really do think that the bug's going to pop out. And this isn't just, hey, I'm going to go through and name everything. It's also they're understanding the algorithm as they name things. And so right now they're looking at strcmp and thinking about, OK, what does this do? I think if you were taking this approach and you get to the target function with the strcpy, it's going to pop right out. Oh, yeah. No, you're going to see that immediately. Especially because... So what is kind of this challenge? Like, in a nutshell, what does the interaction flow look like? What is it supposed to be? Yeah, so as we're seeing here, both competitors looking at these functions are talking about querying and servers. So this is an address resolution service was the sort of origin of the bug. And the CGC challenge called itself server resolution service. So really this is about, hey, can you create a query to enumerate these instances and find things? And it's just copying one of these fields to another in a request leads to an overflow. Nice. Yeah. So it's a fairly standard service interaction flow, I want to say. You have creation. You have querying. I don't think you have any deletion here. So it's not going to be like a false double free or something. Oh yeah, I don't see free in the function list. I'm going to flip over to Bluewater here. It looks like they are... I see them. They just labeled something in a stir copy right there. It's funny when you see somebody and you know they're close and you're starting to see as he's clicking around. Oh, he's looking right at the stir copy. Oh, is he? Oh, he sees that it's a stack. He sees it. I think that we're seeing... Immediately back to the terminal. When they flip back to the terminal after that. Check sec, no railroad, NX disabled, no canary, no pie. I think he sees his path now. Yeah, I think he's just like, oh my god, I spent all of that time. Yeah, well, but also there's a lot of excitement because he's just had a breakthrough and he just wants to know how close is the other competitor. Oh, yeah, he has no idea if they've already found the bug. If they're building a ROP chain, there's no NX. I don't know why. ROP chains, there's always ROP chains when you have no NX. I think it's just practice. And especially there's no ASLR in play. Do you really think that's faster than just, you know, finding one call or like pop call gadget? Yeah, and if I recall this one, there is a friendly gadget. Yes, there's a very friendly gadget. When I verified this challenge, I sent my solution and I looked at the source like, oh, what does this look like? And I see a comment on it saying, we left this here to be nice. Yeah, well, like I said, there's a little modification because we really don't want to beat the players up with things that aren't really the core bug here. And we want this to go fast. Yeah, these challenges are meant to be solved. So the challenge is finding the bug. We might give you, you know, an easy primitive or two to just kind of facilitate. So you don't need to search the entire binary space, binary search, if you will. And, you know, find the right primitive to use here. We just kind of lay it out for you. Yeah, and it's a line to walk when you're designing challenges. How easy do you want to make? What is the real challenge that you want them to solve? And in this case, it was really just finding that stir copy, understanding what you've got on your hands, understanding the mitigations, and then writing your exploit. Yeah, so now they're going. BlueWater is going to be stepping through, figuring out their offsets, and starting to write their exploit. What is Undefined doing right about now? Yeah, let's flip over and see. It looks like they're reversing in the main function, so they're exploring sort of the switch statement that... This is almost a menu sort of setup, where you've got a switch statement that handles the different kinds of requests. And there's not a lot, right? Originally, in the CGC version, there was more stuff, and we kind of commented that out because we didn't want the competitors to have to spend all their time just sort of digging through, you know? Yeah. And it looks like Undefined hasn't reached the area of code with the stir copy yet. Right, they're still labeling. They're building their understanding. Now, this might help them in the long run, if they know offsets better, because it looks like BlueWater is over there calculating offsets. And you can tell, based on what they're looking at, that they're real concerned about linked lists, which are a common source of bugs, mishandling linked lists. Not in this case, though. And I think that this is kind of an interesting thing to talk about, because in the CGC, you had these automated competitors that they aren't looking at the binary, right? Yeah. They're not reversing or annotating. They were fuzzing and doing symbolic execution, but they can cover a lot of ground, whereas our competitors here are having to manually reverse engineer and find bugs. As good as you are, you're, at the end of the day, only one person. That's true. I have been hoping to see somebody pull out, you know, a fuzzer or some other extra tooling to try to overcome this. Oh, I'm really looking forward to it. But it looks like teams are going to the basics, what they can do the fastest. And that looks like, you know, GDB with whatever fancy wrapper they want to put on it, Geph or Pwnbag or PETA. IDA, Ghidra, no Binge yet. Sad. But they're going with what they know and what they've been using for the longest time. Yeah, and I think that the discussion really is, if you have to solve something in only 20, 30 minutes, do you have time to work with something like an anger? Like, you have to be really practiced. And there's still a little, you know, finesse involved, unless it pops the answer right out. Yeah. Well, we saw yesterday with the final match of the day that teams were racing to build ROP chains. And one team had a full layout, he had the offsets right, and everything was going right. And then Pwn Tools kept throwing like, oh, you can't append to a relocated ROP chain. And he was stuck there for 10 minutes. We had to go into sudden death. And then sudden death was a ROP off again, a ROP race. And, you know, you get these really fancy tools, but if you trip over all their bells and whistles, you might be better off with basics. Yeah, and I think it's interesting because this isn't actually what you'd see in the real world, so to speak. This is a competition. This is testing, pushing people to their limits. But in a normal situation, if you were looking for bugs and trying to write an exploit, you could really take your time. Oh, yeah. No. I mean, in daily jobs, you know, reliability and undetectability of exploits is one thing. But CTF code is notoriously messy. It is built on a pile of commented out things that didn't work, curses, variable names that are just frustration with the author and the challenge. Yeah, we're looking at BlueWater right now. The A's and the B's are sort of the classic visual padding. But, you know, so far I haven't seen a lot of variable names like LOL or HA or WTF, but I've definitely seen that before. Yeah, a lot of maybe, a lot of underscore IDK. Yeah, yeah. But BlueWater is writing in their solution script undefined. It looks like they're also building out their script. So they've enumerated that, hey, there's there's a couple of commands here and they've broken down what each command type can take. So they have the idea. I don't think that they've seen the bug yet. Just just based on what we're looking at here. But they they've got the skeleton going. It looks like over on BlueWater, they're starting to send their BNSH shellcode. Yeah, they look like they're pretty close. Oh, yeah. And they're going to pack an address. Oh, do they have their gadget? Oh, do they? Oh, the receive buffer. OK, so they're putting the address of the receive buffer. But do they have no ASLR in place so they can they can use the binary address? Yeah, no, no, no, nothing. But do they have the gadget? Because, oh, you know what? They might just put on top of the stack and then, you know, Red will get to it or leave. Hmm. I'm not sure exactly. I think we're seeing them. I think they're they're they're still exploring here, but they're pretty close. Oh, yeah. OK, they're going back. They're double checking their offsets. They're making sure they're in the right function here. OK, and then they have a jump and they're like, but but the leaves should load it. It should work. So setting a breakpoint, walking through. Yeah, and he knows he's so close, right? This is this is the tense almost to the finish line. Just got to figure this last bit out. It looks like he's going to hard code the stack, which will work fine in local execution GDB, but stack address not fixed. Yeah, yeah, stack addresses. Not as not your reliable binary gadget here. Yeah, no, it is not built into the binary. It is not affected by Pi. I'm sure it is in some way or another. OK, so we see the first mean variable name. All right, so they're building out shellcode. Yeah, this is starting to look like the code that I wrote to solve this. Building out padding correctly, making sure everything lines up properly. And walking through, they're going to get segfaults here, but they're going to know where exactly in their chain they're segfaulting. It'll give them a better idea where to hone in on that offset. Yeah, and some of this really is just that iterative try one thing, see where see where we're at, maybe a missed assumption or things just. Yeah, here we go. So top of the stack is the address of the receive buffer. And then it looks like the shellcode isn't being written properly. Oh, nope, I saw push x68. OK. That looks promising. The SBB, the add, that doesn't look like the shellcode, but looks like they're landing something. Yeah, they're definitely somewhere. They're almost there. Over on undefined, let's see what's going on. Python solved up high. OK, so they're printing out receive packet information. They're still writing an interaction here. Do they have the query one implemented yet? I can't see quite that far. They have a function written to do the query one. I'm not sure that I've seen them bring that up, though, in terms of looking at it in Ghidra and finding... Oh, they're going really in-depth in the query all. Yeah, they're going a little deep on the reverse engineering, and it may cost them because the bug isn't... It's not too complicated in this case. But we're seeing them. They're giving it everything they've got. They're frantically looking through. I think the speed that they work at is impressive, but you can also, I think at this point, start to sense a little desperation. I'm sure that they're feeling, where is the bug? Where is the bug? Yeah, they're looking through. They're getting a really solid understanding of the binary, but they're missing shallow bugs looking for deep ones. Okay, so hint number one just dropped. The hints are set up to drop. Let's see. What is hint number one? This is a classic old-school bug. What a helpful hint, Mark. When I think of old-school bugs, I think of string bugs. I don't know about you. Fair. String handling bugs, I'm looking at... Stack buffer overflow, too. Yeah, stack buffer overflow. Okay, it is a helpful hint. I'm not thinking linked list. I'm not thinking heap. It's not an IOU ring, but... There's a stack buffer overflow somewhere. And for me, I'm looking at strcpy, strcat, hoping something like that. Any of the classic overflow vectors. Right, right. Now, for all of these challenges, we're doing it to try to set them on the right track, especially a case like this, where maybe they're just looking in the wrong spot, and so hint number one is trying to guide them towards the right spot. And then hint number two is like, okay, here it is, just do this. Hints released at 20, 35 minutes. 50 minutes, we go into sudden death. We're setting a hard cutoff on that this year. We made the mistake last year of being too lenient with it. But it looks like we're 15, 18 minutes in, somewhere in there. Yeah, and really, looking at... That's right, hint drop. Hint drops automatically, this go around, which is a nice bit of automation. We're not completely beyond the setting pieces of paper down in front of the competitors. That is how they connect to the challenge server, yeah. But going through... Okay, so blue water is going through making sure they're on the right path, or are they looking for another vector? Or are they just checking offsets? Well, they... And I saw both competitors look at the hint. And it says it's an old school bug. They've got a stack buffer overflow. I think that they're just trying to break down, how do I get to my shellcode at this point? Yep, looking at gadgets. Yeah, oh my. Yeah, that's some ANSI color sequences there. Yeah, see, that made me ANSI. Okay, so we're looking for sub-RSPs, right? Okay, that's the road they're going. I think that there is a call register. There is a pop EDI call EDI or something, RDI. It's not that old school. Trying to make it easier. And so if you have that kind of tool, and you're grepping for a call or a jump gadget, it should just pop out at you. Well, absolutely, but he's looking for what he knows. He's looking for classic... That's right. And if you're used to working on modern exploitation challenges, they're not this easy. You have to do a little more. And so they're probably not expecting it as easy of a challenge. So hopefully as the tournament goes on, we'll see a little bit of that. Okay, check for the easy thing first, and then maybe... Yeah, this is a live CTF. We do want you to solve it. We really want you to solve it. Alright, so it looks like... just building a manual payload here instead of using PwnTool's shellcraft. Or maybe he'll still use it. I think it looks like he's... Oh, he's just figuring out the offsets again. Playing with the padding, trying to understand what exactly... Maybe looking for a leak. Yeah? They're looking at the output there, seeing what the server sent them. There's a lot of junk. It's all randomized. Again, this challenge was built to be run in a different environment where randomization was handled differently. These were automated competitors. They're not reading the output. No. It is garbage. It threw me off a little bit when I was parsing output, and I just got random strings back. And I'm like, am I parsing this right? Is it like 7-bit UTF? But no, it's just completely random strings. Printable strings. That's important. Right, right. Yeah, that would be mean if we just throw a null byte in there. They parse it out and early. Let's switch over to Undefined. It looks like they... I have to imagine that's their overflow that they're playing with, with all those A's. Yeah, it looks like they're stepping through, figuring out where in all those A's they are. And I gotta say, I'm loving their debugger setup here. So they're in parse query, it looks like. Not stepped fully into the query one. Oh no, parse query has a strcpy, doesn't it? Or is it in query one? I forget. I believe it's query one. In parse query, I think they're looking at the string handling to try to... They've got an idea that this is an overflow, so that hint looks like it did give them a little bit of an idea. Yeah, okay, it was a good hint. They're looking for overflows, seeing some comments go down, tracking, hey, what are the maximum lengths that can be sent in different places? And so what that was, that was the parse query, which populates a larger buffer, and then the query one buffer is a stack buffer, which is smaller. So they're on the right path. They're looking for that... Oh, now we see them looking at a strcpy. Oh. So they're thinking, hey, is this a strcpy bug, stack overflow? Right, kind of thinking. The wrong strcpy. That strcpy there is an innocuous one. Yeah. You can totally use it safely with enough checks or static string buffers. But if they were to look at the cross references on strcpy, that would drop them right in the right spot. They would. So let's see, going into... So this is the receive until, so just helpful wrappers around the receive function. Again, this was built in the CGC. There's a fair bit of scaffolding in play that they had. They had their own libc. So the challenge authors then built familiar wrappers commonly to make the challenges look like what we'd expect. But this is, I think, the competitor trying to understand, okay, what are the limits? How much exactly is going to be written in that buffer? Okay, we see the buffer label. The size is right next to it. But over on BlueWater, they have rbp414141. All right, so when we see register control, we know we're close. Because really, in this case, building a stack buffer overflow, there's only a few steps, right? Yeah. So you've got your overflow. You understand, okay, what registers do I control? What are the offsets to control those registers? And then what should I put in each of those? And what's going to be the easiest way to get shellcode running? Now, what I'm worried about with BlueWater is they were returning, I think, to the receive buffer, which I think is in BSS. Oh. So I'm not sure that that's executable, unless you unprotect it. That might have just been where they're putting their return address and they pop it and read to stack. I'm not 100%. I did see them looking at the virtual memory map. So they were looking at permissions for readable, writable, etc. Hopefully, yeah. I mean, we don't know what's going through their heads. They could be thinking anything right now. You could be thinking, man, this would just be so much easier if I can get a UAF in here. Yeah, yeah. Their mind may still be on the DEF CON CTF finals, right? Maybe they've been working on another challenge and this is just total whiplash in terms of... Yeah, BlueWater sat down and asked, can I unplug from HDMI so I can keep working on the challenge I was working on? Love that dedication. Yeah, go for it. We're going live in a couple minutes. And he's like, unplug, keep working on the challenge. I go over and I'm like, we're going live soon. He's like, okay, cool, plug it back in, close everything down so no other team can see what's going on. Awesome. We don't want to leak any DEF CON CTF challenge solution progress, anything about that. Yeah, it's definitely the case where the competitors know that their screens are being streamed. Yes, we are very explicit telling them that. We don't want anyone leaking anything. No password managers pulled up and they're like, oh yeah, what's my password again? Pull it up on screen. RBP, oh, okay, so it looks like he is the offset, right? RBP is bees now. Okay, yep. So he's nailed that offset and now just determining, okay, where do I go from here? What's the gadget I want? Can I do something with RBP? Man, it sure would be great if I had a DRFRSP plus 32 call. I'm just waiting for him to go back to his gadgets file and look for some friendlier gadgets. Yeah, you can make do with what he's found so far, but it is not going to be fast. You need that nice gadget to just kind of expedite the entire process. Or maybe he'll jump back, you know, call some puts, call printf and get a stack leak, do it that way. Yeah, and I never count these competitors out. I fully expect when I write a challenge like this that they are going to come up with some way to solve it that I didn't expect. Absolutely. I mean, we've seen that in a couple challenges yesterday. They were close to intended, but they did, you know, they diverged from the path that we kind of cut for them, that we put in place for them. And I think that really says that these competitors are all experts in the field. You know, they understand these things so well that they can go around. They don't need to walk the path that we kind of laid out for them. They see something off to the side, traverse that, and it might end up being faster, might end up being slower, but it'll work in the end. As I say that they're experts. What does the leave instruction do? But this is real. Honestly, it's totally fair. Every expert uses Stack Overflow. Tell me you don't. Tell me you don't, Josh. I can't. Well, I could. I'd be lying. No, we saw yesterday we had man7.org and Stack Overflow, and I don't know which one is better as far as describing what things do. Let's take a look. I think on the undefined side here, he's in the right function. He's got his cursor on strcpy. I think that we're watching him live understand. So he's got the instance buffer, the stack buffer labeled as instance. He's highlighting the strcpy. He's like, how big can this be again? Wait, this is such a small buffer. Oh, he walked over it. I'm not sure if he just counted out because there was an innocuous one earlier, and it just kind of blends into the background. Or if he saw it, and he's just marking stuff around it so he knows what's going on after. Yeah, perhaps looking for something afterwards that might modify or otherwise change the environment. But the query being the argument to the query1 function, that is a little bit of a hint that, hey, if he can go back and understand what part of that structure he controls, I mean, he's looking right at it. So I think we're seeing... Yeah, rewriting to use the query1, it looks like. So this competitor is understanding, okay, we've got structures in terms of server name, instance name, and then on the right path. You know what I'm seeing a lack of? Type hints in their solve scripts. It is honestly underrated. The number of times I pass a string to a function that takes bytes and the encoding gets messed up, or it passes and PwnTools throws a warning that I'm not aware of, UTF fucks everything up. Like, really, type hints and exploit scripts have saved me so many debugging steps. Oh, yeah, I mean, the only time in the past year or two that I've written Python without type hints was writing a challenge for this. Yeah. Because I didn't want people to figure it out too quickly. Yeah, yeah. All right, let's take a look and switch over to Bluewater. All right, Bluewater. Looks like they're going in the parse query, looking at the calloc lengths. I think they haven't seen the nice gadget yet. Yep, I agree. I think that there's a... They might have a technique in mind. Yeah, so it's hanging. I wonder if they're just going to run it against and wait for the stack to line up at some nice boundary or something. I'm not 100% sure. It looks like they're exploring the other functionality in there. Interesting. If I recall, there's only three or four different things you can get the target to do. Yeah, it's a smaller surface. Perhaps there's something hidden in the other functions that he wants to use or thinks that might be helpful in terms of... Yeah. Now, looking at decompilation, you're not going to see those nice gadgets hidden in there because they're just going to be optimized out in some cases. They could be dead code. They could be just unoptimized. Decompiler throws them away because it's an if-false. Right, exactly. And I think that that's the case with this specific gadget. It was inserted to make life easier, but it's really not in the hot path. It's not something that you're going to run into just running the binary. Yeah, and that kind of brings up one of the major downsides of only looking at decompilation is you're looking at this output where all these heuristics, especially in IDA, all these heuristics were being applied that removes things you're not interested in for actual functionality. But when you're getting down to the actual creation of an exploit, you really need to look at the fine-grained, you know, I have a sub-RSP 32 call. Like, I have all of these things in dead paths that I can use. And we saw him looking at ROP gadgets for, you know, a minute maybe. But he was just searching through for sub-ESPs. Yeah, yeah, I think that there's a tendency to go with what you know. And I don't think that Magic Gadget is going to work on this one, right? So it's like, all right, what's the fallback here? And that can be challenging if, you know, you're not prepared for it. You're not expecting it. I'm wondering if now he's trying to get a libc leak or something and like, oh, just one gadget it, something like that. But just as easily, there's no NX. You can get a stack leak and jump to it. Yeah, I think that at this point, there's... It's just, it feels like this is one of those parts in the pattern of writing an exploit that automation would help, you know? Like, suggest a few things. Because as you said, there's a lot of trust in the tools. Decompilation, a great example. You're counting on the tool to show you exactly what's there. And I think that walking that line of using tools to make you faster and make things that are hard easier is something that I only expect to see more of in the future. And we see over on Blue Water, they just highlighted the RWX stack. I don't think they noticed. Oh, we're back. We're back in the gadgets. But at the same time, Undefined was writing their solve script too. In their solve script, they have hard-coded binary data. So it looks like they're just fine-tuning. They're going through with a fine comb now, figuring out where it goes wrong. Oh, they have a threat to... Is that a controlled address? I can't see that far. Yeah, we've got RSP. They control RSP. And you can see the cyclic pattern is going to allow them to calculate exactly what the offset is. Oh, that's what that was. They were just pasting cyclic output, maybe. Yeah, so now they're going through and actually... And so this is a clever point because even... It's not just, hey, okay, so you can see that they're putting a known value that's going to go in the return address. But then after that, seeing, okay, which of these other values ends up in other registers. So you can understand, hey, each register that I control, this is exactly the offset that's going into it. Oh, yeah. And it looks like... Is that dead beef I see over there? So they've definitely landed the return address overwrite. And now let's see what their strategy to get execution is. All right, so are they going to look through gadgets? Are they going to see any nice leak there? Not 100%. It's never guaranteed. You can be so close to the solution and then overlook one thing, one nice gadget, one win function. And a hint, too, just came out. Yeah, I saw somebody checking the live CTF page to see if that hint had dropped. And I think that we added a timer today so that competitors could see exactly how close they were to getting a hint. That, I was told, was not 100% not going to break the infra. So I did not deploy it for first match. But I told them in person, you know, check back at this time and this time. There will be hints. Refresh the page. But they might be a little too focused on this. They might not notice it. Outstanding. Yeah, the priority is that the infrastructure actually works. Yes. I was not about... I waited in line for breakfast, came over here a couple minutes before. Plug everything in. Please work, please work. IP tables routed everything properly. Container started. I'm like, yes! So, undefined. Hang on, no arch presence. Are they? Oh. I think we're seeing a... Yeah, we're seeing a ret to the receive buffer again. And so, they're working through. They've got the overwrite. They know that they've got the bug. They're just trying to finish out. And honestly, BlueWater, if we flip over them, they're looking through gadgets. They know that they've been closed for a long time. They see that pop RVP ret, which is pretty nice. Yep. But that doesn't give them the stack offset. Yep. Yeah, so at this point... They're just going with full ROP chain. Well, and that's an option. I don't know if it is. Because there's no system call in this. There's no, like... Like, I guess if you get lucky and find the syscall ret, right? That's what it comes down to. But I don't know if there are any raw syscalls in this. Good point. I think... You know, but it's... With an overwrite like this, there's... There's a few things you can do. If I recall... It's not null terminated, so you can write... Oh! It's... I want to say it's new... That's pretty nice. No, it's a strcpy, so it is... Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, but you can have null-free shellcode pretty easily. That's not too bad of a constraint. Let's see. So they're getting the offset right. Oh, no, you don't... No. I mean, if they're writing a ROP chain, you can just fully ROP to it and probably build binsh that way because you have address of the receive buffer. You can just send binsh in it. That's right. You've got a larger buffer that you can stage stuff. So they actually... And it looks like that's what they're trying to do. Oh, I hope so. Where is that? Yeah, so they have padded shellcode on there. They're putting ROP gadgets after, which are going to be on top of the stack and hopefully RET to it. And that makes sense with the other... When they were looking at the other functions, I think that they might have been trying to send data to get it staged somewhere else and then maybe look for references to that data later. Yeah, but it looks like also that they're sending 7 A's instead of 8, so they still have that leading FD on top of the stack. So I'm not sure if they see that or if they just see the A's at the end. Okay, cool. I'm overriding everything. Yeah, they see a REX.B. I don't think that's part of their shellcode. I just wanted to point out Undefined pulling out the checksec, understanding that there's no mitigations in play. They're looking for... How do I get execution? I've got the strcpy. They have strcpy. We saw them get RIP. They got RIP once at deadbeef. Okay, so what we're seeing here is looking at ROP gadgets. Oh, yeah. And they're looking for RSP gadgets. Yep. Which is on the right path. It's close. Yeah, you know, parsing these outputs, that wall of text, it's always tough for me. I always feel like there's got to be a better way. Oh, this is a tool I haven't seen before on Bluewater. Disasm.will.gl Oh, this is nice. It's like a nicer Diffuse CA, honestly. Diffuse CA is something I go to for just like in-browser disassembly-assembly. You know, I just want to copy a bunch of bytes out. Yeah, having little tools like that is... It's really helpful. And in competitions like this, really having a number of tools to go to is helpful. You want to have all the tools in your toolbox that you could possibly need because you never know what's going to come up for a challenge. Oh, and it looks like... Okay, so he's looking now. What opcodes can I use that start with 0x3, the command code in the packet, to get to this path? Oh, they're both so close. I just heard mumbles of sudden death. I'm not sure when we're getting there, but I imagine we're getting close. Ten minutes? Eight. Eight minutes to sudden death. Wow. Sudden death, an easier challenge, should be solved fairly quickly. We did not write all of them last night, but I verified all of them and they work. Very easy challenges. Very fast. Does not require this level of either reverse engineering or this kind of... these exploitation chops, I guess. Yeah, and, you know, really hoping to see a solve for this, especially because I feel for the competitors. Been there. You know you're so close and you hate to go into sudden death when you know you're just minutes away from a solve. Yeah, but it looks like over on Blue Water, they're trying to read from an invalid address and that really looks like just random data on the stack. They're reading to what's in their RBP. Oh, they're scrolling so fast. Oh, RBP is argv0. Or a pointer to argv0. So they're too far down the stack. Okay. Sometimes it just becomes a challenge to follow the thought process because these competitors are so fast. Oh, and they have five different threads going at once. Yep, they're trying different ideas, seeing what sticks. Yeah. And really, we give a general category of what the challenge is. So I think this one was old school Pwn as the hint or something like that. Or as the category we give the competitors. So outside of that, they don't have anything. They don't know whether to send, you know, the guy that wrote House of Blue 42 or whatever. Yeah, there's we try to set them up this go around with information at least categorical so that they can say, hey, you're better at heap challenges, you're better at stack challenges. And we see that second... Second hint, query 1 uses strcpy was the hint. Both competitors already there. Already knew that, yeah. So I don't think hint 2 is going to be that helpful. I mean, really, at this point, they have everything they need. You know, we're not going to say, oh yeah, this gadget is at this offset. That's so incredibly free. They need to know what they're looking for. They need to have an idea of what they need next in the exploit chain. But it looks like they're getting hung up on kind of how do I get a leak? True, true. I mean, yes, we could have put the hint as maybe this gadget would be helpful. And I think that both of these competitors honestly would really appreciate that right now. Then it would just be a race to see who can type in that address faster. It's just monkey type at that point. I think on the undefined side, we're seeing some PwnTools use that they're resolving symbols to get those addresses automatically. I think that that's I'd love to see the power users of libraries, frameworks, tools and see how they can make their lives easier. Because I really feel like that should be faster. Oh yeah, PwnTools has a lot of great bells and whistles on it. It has a lot of great functionality for mundane tasks. Like calculating offsets, working from a base. You don't need to have some libc base variable in there. You can just load the elf setBaseAddress once and then work relative to that with symbols. It's really nice. Yeah, and this this RobGadget interaction that they're doing is very cool. I don't think I've seen this tool. Yeah, so what tool are they using? I can't read there. RpLin64 could be a custom tool. Oh, it could be. I'm a fan of like Ropper. RopGadget is a classic. Well, I think actually what we were seeing was a grep output that they could scroll through and highlight lines, which was... Yeah, we have or we had in RPiSec a tool called Grepper, g-r-e-p-r that would do RopGadget search and then provide a nice live filterable view of all the gadgets and you can use like regexes in there. It's really nice. Yeah, stuff like that. I mean, it seems simple but you put enough of these simple tools put them together and it makes your life easier, which equates to faster solve. Hopefully it does because we see so close we see blue... Oh, wait. Alright, so they're looking for pops still. Over on blue water we also saw them looking at that pop rbp ret call or gadget again. Yeah, they're both looking for that. Yeah, but because they've got control over rbp That's going to put them maybe in some random invalid address because there's just data after that before their buffer. They really need that that stack ink or deck I forget which one it is. I think it's ink. Yeah, and this is this is tough because you never know what exactly is going to be the gadget that's going to do it for you going in and everything's easy to look at in retrospect, right? Oh, yeah. No, CTF is a lot about making do with what you have. And you can easily accept that all you have are the gadgets and the binary. There aren't any nice ones there. But at least take a cursory look. Oh! Move racks rsb. Add racks. Oh! Okay, he found the nice gadget. 4019fd. My favorite address. It's up there in me. It's like it's in the top 4 billion, I want to say. Yeah. Roughly. At least the 32 bit. So this is exactly what we talked about. They're going back to the gadgets, finding the thing that's going to make their life easier and I think at this point it's just a matter of time. Oh yeah. So it looks like BlueWater found the nice gadget they're working through. That pop is going to take them exactly to the beginning of their overflow. So it should just be as simple as inserting shellcode after that. Almost like it was made that way. Imagine. Alright, let's take a look at Undefined. Looking through stack addresses here. Trying to understand what they control. What this pointer specifically is looking at. You know, the pop, rut kind of gadgets. They're looking to see if that's useful for them. They are. And then over on BlueWater, they're on the stack. And I see that syscall instruction. I see push0x3b syscall. They walk through it. They just have registers set up wrong it looks like. I couldn't see quite in time. So they might just have offset 1. Might be missing the first instruction in that chain. Could just be a XOR of like RCX or something. Yeah, I saw that they were using the PwnTools built-in shellcode. So probably not any mistakes there. No, it's very thorough. It's verbose. But making sure that that came through untouched, you know, completely valid, that looks like what they're doing there. Yeah, I don't know if PwnTools shellcode actually has nullbytes in it. It might have nullbytes. Which would really break this flow here. Because it would stop reading the string. But no, it got to the syscall. So it can't have nullbytes in there. So there's the call. He's looking at this. Alright. Oh yeah, that's... ESPDI REF RSP. Probably doesn't want that at the beginning of his shellcode. Does he? I don't know. Oh, and I just got word that we're heading to sudden death. We're heading to sudden death? No! He's on his shellcode! Oh my gosh. No! Oh, don't save the database. You can feel it. That's so upsetting. Oh, he's deleting the challenge. Oh, that's so sad. He was walking through his shellcode. But we mentioned... I made sure to mention 50 minutes. We're going to sudden death. That is so sad. So we're having some technical difficulties with the camera here on our end, but... Oh, so we're just going to stay on bracket view for a bit. I don't know which way this is going to go. Undefined was working slowly through it. They were about to find the gadget, I'm sure. BlueWater just found it. Yep, they were just looking through gadgets again. Oh man. Oh, that's... You know that... It wasn't guaranteed to go one way or another because BlueWater was just starting to debug where they were jumping to. I think that they were very close. You saw them highlighting the first instruction in their payload and it was just... As far as I know, bad. It was just a bad instruction. Well, not bad instruction, but it was bad instruction to have in your payload. It wasn't the right instruction."
}