[00:00.000 --> 00:07.740] All right, all right, all right, all right, man. Hi, everybody walking by. I know you [00:07.740 --> 00:14.840] can hear me. This is Keenan from the XR Village, and we are about to have an amazing kickoff [00:14.840 --> 00:20.680] talk to talk about what the XR Village is and what we do. And we have a special guest [00:21.240 --> 00:25.020] who is the most amazing person that I've met in my life. She does such cool badass stuff [00:25.020 --> 00:28.680] that it's just crazy. And I'm going to let her tell you about all of that. But they do [00:28.680 --> 00:33.700] like packet capture and crazy XR stuff that is super fun. And you want to know more about [00:33.700 --> 00:38.180] it, trust me. We do have a booth that's set up, just letting everybody know before we [00:38.180 --> 00:42.740] kick off. If you go right around the corner there, you'll see big balloons that say XRV [00:42.740 --> 00:48.320] for the XR Village. And that is my little intro. And now I'm going to get into the fun [00:48.320 --> 00:53.300] stuff. But all of y'all in the back, why don't you come on in here? Why don't you come on [00:53.300 --> 01:02.420] up? Anyone? Okay. So, hi again. Kenan Skelly. I am the founder of the XR Village and I'm [01:02.420 --> 01:07.480] really excited that you guys are here with us today. This is our first village at DEF [01:07.480 --> 01:12.380] CON and we are super excited to be here. So I'm going to give you a little bit of history [01:12.380 --> 01:18.940] about why there's an XR Village and what it means and all of that fun stuff. So I started [01:18.940 --> 01:24.780] my life out doing a lot of training and educational things that involved, you know, video [01:24.780 --> 01:32.500] games and fun stuff like that, which is really cool. It's really cool. And the problem with [01:32.500 --> 01:37.740] that is I started a company that was really meant to build out cyber security training [01:37.740 --> 01:43.140] and education, like ready player one style, using artificial, I'm sorry, not artificial [01:43.140 --> 01:48.680] technology, using AR VR, which we now call XR. And we're calling it XR forever now because [01:48.680 --> 01:55.020] last year I had it put on our T-shirts and so that's what it is now. Make sure your companies [01:55.020 --> 02:01.400] comply. So we started looking at development platforms where we could actually get in and [02:01.400 --> 02:09.200] build AAA quality games on the AR, I did it, XR devices. And what was really interesting [02:09.200 --> 02:13.080] about it is we looked at four or five different platforms and we found that there was no [02:13.080 --> 02:19.060] security developer kit in any of those platforms. And we are a cyber security company trying [02:19.060 --> 02:23.360] to teach cyber security to other people and we can't build something, we can't build our [02:23.360 --> 02:29.200] ready player one without any actual security being put into the platform. So that's kind [02:29.200 --> 02:33.880] of how the XR village was born. It was really me saying, I see a gap here where there's [02:33.880 --> 02:38.440] not enough security and there's not enough really happening from a policy level, from [02:38.540 --> 02:43.360] a legislation level, and at a technological level. And we need to kind of get ahead of [02:43.360 --> 02:50.200] that because AR, VR, XR is about to explode. Now last year we were super, super lucky at [02:50.200 --> 02:55.500] the very last minute to get a slot at the biohacking village. Nina was kind enough to [02:55.500 --> 03:01.360] give us an hour on Sunday and we had bad VR there last year too, doing cool things and [03:01.360 --> 03:09.440] scaring people with their magic. It was only supposed to be a one hour talk and for 25 [03:09.440 --> 03:16.060] people it was a 25 person room. And we stopped counting at 75 standing room only and they [03:16.060 --> 03:20.560] had to kick us out after four hours. That was the level of security interest that was [03:20.560 --> 03:26.760] garnered just by that one hour talk. And we got so many great ideas about what this needs [03:26.760 --> 03:32.740] to address, what this problem looks like. Right now, the United States, and you might not [03:32.740 --> 03:38.280] know this, but I hope you do because you're at this talk, we don't really have privacy laws. [03:38.640 --> 03:43.000] Like, just, we don't. We don't have GDPR. We don't have the European Union stepping in [03:43.000 --> 03:47.440] and saying that everybody's data is protected, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot, dot. And when you [03:47.440 --> 03:54.380] think about that in context of XR, that really scares the shit out of me. I don't know if [03:54.380 --> 03:59.300] it scares you, but it scares me. So right now we have, you know, 5-year-olds, 6-year-olds, [03:59.300 --> 04:05.060] 7-year-olds who are going to school and being taught using a meta quest, being taught using [04:05.060 --> 04:10.220] all of these XR devices. And the thing that's really interesting is that most of them have [04:10.220 --> 04:15.640] some sort of AI capability along with the fact that they have biometrics, along with the [04:15.640 --> 04:20.380] fact that there are like 17 cameras all the way around the outside of it that are actually [04:20.380 --> 04:26.440] recording your entire environment. So just that right there should scare everybody in this [04:26.440 --> 04:30.700] room. Especially if your kids are walking around your house and you're naked and out of the [04:30.700 --> 04:36.220] shower. Because you're getting some recorded stuff. But mostly it's about safety. When we [04:36.220 --> 04:41.760] start talking about how we make a safe future in technology, security by design is really [04:41.760 --> 04:47.320] like the buzz word of the day. But it's not new. It's just something we don't do well. And [04:47.320 --> 04:52.140] we need to get better at it. So I think that the real purpose of the village is to help [04:52.140 --> 04:59.580] promote secure by design. But by driving policy technology and fun stuff like hacking, you [04:59.580 --> 05:04.480] know, meta quests which we're doing over there. And also on Sunday for people who are [05:04.480 --> 05:10.580] interested, we have Dave Maynor, our favorite hacker in the whole wide world who's actually [05:10.580 --> 05:16.640] going to do a live stream hacking the meta quest as a training event for everybody that [05:16.640 --> 05:21.680] participates in our hackathon this week. And he's actually going to hack into the meta [05:21.680 --> 05:27.900] quest using the meta quest pro. Will be live streamed. You can check out more data on our [05:27.900 --> 05:33.220] website or you can check it out with the DEF CON information. So those things are all super, [05:33.220 --> 05:38.940] super exciting. But there's so much work to be done here. One of the things that I envisioned [05:38.940 --> 05:44.760] when I kind of started this was we really need to have that triangle approach and do the [05:44.760 --> 05:49.500] policy technology and legislation at the same time. Because privacy is already an issue [05:49.500 --> 05:56.560] that's super important and super covered. And I'm a policy wonk nerd and I really believe [05:56.560 --> 06:03.240] that when there's a lot of big legislation, you can kind of slip in stuff, right? So what I [06:03.240 --> 06:07.340] would like to see is some privacy slipped in for some of the technologies that we're talking [06:07.340 --> 06:14.460] about. The European Union, I think I said before, is very strict on this. In fact, they just [06:14.460 --> 06:19.720] passed something that says that if you're in technology and you have something like [06:19.720 --> 06:24.820] artificial intelligence and combined with biometrics, that you have to go through a government [06:24.820 --> 06:32.380] approval process to do that. That would be cool. When we talk about XR, we're adding an [06:32.380 --> 06:38.400] entire other element to it that is chaos and that's the AI biometrics and all of the cameras [06:38.400 --> 06:42.380] that go with it. And the fact that we're giving it to five year olds in schools and having [06:42.380 --> 06:47.820] them teach or do things, right? It's scary. It's a really scary world. But the policy piece [06:47.820 --> 06:54.040] really has to be almost at the forefront in terms of pushing that, driving that and making [06:54.040 --> 06:58.540] sure that people on the hill understand the complexities of this problem. That it's not just [06:58.540 --> 07:03.960] an AI problem. That it's not just a privacy problem. It's not just a safety problem. It is all [07:03.960 --> 07:09.980] of those things combined. And way more scary. So that's a big piece of it for me. The [07:09.980 --> 07:15.620] legislation piece is the second part that I thought would be really crucial. There are so [07:15.620 --> 07:20.500] many cybersecurity bills on the floor at any given point in time. It's actually ridiculous and [07:20.500 --> 07:28.000] insane. Scary insane. And they all try to address privacy. They all try to address security. [07:28.000 --> 07:32.220] They all try to address the things that we're talking about here. But it's not in a cohesive [07:32.220 --> 07:38.300] way that really is going to let that legislation get off the floor and really move forward. And [07:38.300 --> 07:42.420] then the third pillar of that for the technology is where we bring in our partner technology [07:42.420 --> 07:50.880] companies like BadVR. And we really focus on how those are doing security, one. Two, how are [07:50.880 --> 07:55.560] they helping the cybersecurity community? Because there's a lot of folks out there who are [07:55.560 --> 08:00.160] using it to do really cool stuff for security and protection. And I think we're going to talk a [08:00.160 --> 08:07.140] little bit about that today. And we also have a playground over there where you can get your [08:07.140 --> 08:11.560] hands on a lot of haptic stuff and just kind of play with it and see what happens. But our [08:11.560 --> 08:16.200] vision going forward for the next three years is to really have these hackathon events all [08:16.200 --> 08:21.980] over the show at B-sides, at local places. And we got very fortunate this year that Meta was [08:21.980 --> 08:26.720] able to supply devices for us. And we're hoping to work with them in the future to continue to [08:26.720 --> 08:34.780] make this a very community style event. So that's all very exciting. I'm going to hand this [08:34.780 --> 08:39.700] off to Susie in a second. But I want to say one of our core functions this year for being a [08:39.700 --> 08:45.500] first-time village was making sure that everybody understood the concept of it takes a [08:45.500 --> 08:50.780] village. I would not be here, our village would not be here if it weren't for Nina at Biohacking [08:50.780 --> 08:56.080] who kind of pulled us in and gave us a platform to actually talk about. We would not be here [08:56.080 --> 09:00.680] without the ICS village who had us at Hack the Capital this year and let us go on and on [09:00.680 --> 09:05.800] about really cool stuff. We would not be here if it was not for the red team village who [09:05.800 --> 09:11.460] helped coordinate us getting all of the stuff from Meta. So you'll see throughout the day, [09:11.460 --> 09:16.820] throughout the weekend, that all of our talks are in collaboration with another village. [09:16.820 --> 09:22.360] Today's talk is in collaboration with the ICS village. Unfortunately our ICS representative, [09:22.960 --> 09:27.680] we had some timing issues with this talk and he had to go to another talk. But we're still [09:27.680 --> 09:33.480] going to talk about ICS today. We're going to talk about the really interesting ways that XR is [09:33.480 --> 09:38.760] kind of approaching security, both from a let's protect this device, also how to enable [09:38.760 --> 09:44.000] cybersecurity, and also what are we doing when it comes to the grid and XR? What are we doing [09:44.000 --> 09:49.360] when it comes to power plants and XR? So that's where we're going to hand it over to Susie and [09:49.360 --> 09:52.980] we're going to introduce her and we're going to have a little chat about all of the fun things [09:52.980 --> 09:53.860] that she does. [09:55.100 --> 10:00.680] Thank you so much, Keenan. I appreciate it. Hello, everyone. Thank you for being here and thank [10:00.680 --> 10:06.160] you for taking the time to come over and listen to this talk. We were actually billed at 2 p.m. [10:06.160 --> 10:10.920] So if you're wondering, if you want a little bit more information about stuff, you can look at us, [10:10.920 --> 10:17.000] look us up, and we were the ones initially in the 2 p.m. slot. That being said, thank you so much [10:17.000 --> 10:22.660] for having me. I really appreciate it. A little bit of background about myself. I'm the CEO and [10:22.660 --> 10:30.180] co-founder of a company called BadVR. It stands for bring all your data to VR. And similar to [10:30.180 --> 10:33.860] your story, when I founded the company, we originally thought we were going to be a VR [10:33.860 --> 10:39.740] company. But, you know, as with all sort of company journeys, that sort of morphed and changed over [10:39.740 --> 10:46.220] time. So the irony of now is, of course, most of our products are actually AR products. But I do [10:46.220 --> 10:51.700] believe that in the future, VR and AR are going to combine together to be sort of one device, [10:51.700 --> 10:58.760] call it XR, call it what you will. But, yeah, our focus is really visualizing or using AR and VR [10:58.760 --> 11:05.520] technology to visualize really large, complex data sets. And, you know, when people hear that [11:05.520 --> 11:10.200] tagline or hear that description of my company, they usually think, like, oh, you're looking at [11:10.200 --> 11:16.040] 3D charts and graphs using a VR headset. And that could not be further from what we're actually [11:16.040 --> 11:22.400] doing. So when I founded the company, my background was in doing 2D data visualization [11:22.400 --> 11:30.080] interfaces. I was a UX designer, product designer. I really wanted to find a way to make data more [11:30.080 --> 11:35.340] accessible to everyone. I felt that it was one of the world's most valuable commodities, more [11:35.340 --> 11:41.820] valuable than even gold. And oil or anything like that. But the problem now is that a lot of people [11:41.820 --> 11:46.660] can't see data, they can't work with data unless they're very highly technically trained. And a [11:46.660 --> 11:50.660] lot of the people who are technically trained tend to be of the same sort of background and [11:50.660 --> 11:57.680] skill set. So my vision for founding the company was to use that new technology, AR and VR, to make [11:57.680 --> 12:03.420] data and the visualization of data and the analysis of data much more universally accessible [12:03.420 --> 12:09.120] to everyone. So non-technical people could put on a headset and easily explore data. So to do that, [12:09.120 --> 12:13.540] I couldn't just make it 3D charts and graphs because that's still very difficult for [12:13.540 --> 12:19.960] non-technical people to understand. So long story short, really came up with brand new ways to [12:19.960 --> 12:26.240] visualize data, new and novel interfaces. An example of this would be our product called [12:26.240 --> 12:31.740] C-Signal, which we're demoing over here right by the front door. So you can actually stop by the [12:31.740 --> 12:37.840] booth and demo this product if you're interested. Basically, you put on a headset and it allows you [12:37.840 --> 12:44.480] to see your entire RF spectrum. So you can see anything from wireless signals to telecom signals, [12:44.480 --> 12:51.120] 5G signals, Bluetooth signals. You're able to see that data in the real world as it actually exists. [12:51.120 --> 12:58.880] So think about it as x-ray vision for your networks or x-ray vision for the RF spectrum. [12:58.920 --> 13:02.800] So you're able to see information as it's flowing through these networks. You're able to see the [13:02.800 --> 13:07.580] strength of the network. You're able to see who accessed the network at what point, go through [13:07.580 --> 13:14.340] time, go backwards, see it in present moment, see it in real time, interact with it, all of these [13:14.340 --> 13:20.920] good things. So we visualize this as sort of signal sticks in space and you're able to look [13:20.920 --> 13:25.820] at it multi-dimensionally. So just as an example of some of the stuff, some of the innovation that [13:25.820 --> 13:31.220] we're working on, some of the product sets that we have. So yeah, we're really excited to be here. [13:31.220 --> 13:37.000] A lot of applications obviously in the cyber security space. We also have a lot of telecom [13:37.000 --> 13:44.080] applications using technology like C-Signal to help do 5G deployments and help troubleshoot [13:44.080 --> 13:49.920] with home Wi-Fi networks and stuff like that. We also have another product that sort of goes away [13:49.920 --> 13:54.900] from the RF spectrum and helps just visualize large disparate data sets. So it's sort of like [13:54.900 --> 14:00.400] an immersive command and control center. So you can bring together live data feeds, you can bring [14:00.400 --> 14:06.520] together historical data feeds, geospatial, non-geospatial, into this sort of multi-dimensional [14:06.520 --> 14:12.300] command and control room and collaborate together and notate and all of that good stuff. But my baby [14:12.300 --> 14:15.960] is C-Signal. That was the first product that we came up with. And I think that really fits [14:15.960 --> 14:21.800] the atmosphere here. I think it's very, would be a lot of interest to people here. So definitely [14:21.800 --> 14:26.920] be sure to come and check it out. My co-founder, Jad, who's over here, would be happy to give you [14:27.000 --> 14:32.740] a demo. He's my technical co-founder, so if you have any super technical questions, he can answer [14:32.740 --> 14:38.620] those for you as well. But yeah, thank you so much for having me and looking forward to this talk. [14:39.540 --> 14:47.200] Yay! I told you she was amazing, right? And really, seriously, go check out the gear, [14:47.200 --> 14:52.060] go check out all of the stuff that they brought with them. It really is amazing and scary to [14:52.060 --> 14:58.700] think about. It will scare you, but in a good way that will make you want to change the world. [14:58.920 --> 15:06.540] So one of the interesting things that when I first met Susie and when we first had them involved [15:06.540 --> 15:11.380] kind of last year, they were the only technology partner that we had in our little tiny room of [15:11.380 --> 15:18.100] 25 people that had 75 people in it. And they did a great demonstration. So really wanted to bring [15:18.100 --> 15:23.880] them back and talk about some of the applications that they have, not just what they've built, but [15:23.880 --> 15:29.420] how they're using it. Now because this talk is meant to be a collaboration with the ICS Village, [15:29.420 --> 15:35.060] our talk is going to focus on some of the things that apply directly to the electric grid, that [15:35.060 --> 15:41.280] apply directly to nuclear power plants, that apply to things that might be scary to think about in [15:41.280 --> 15:47.820] terms of that much access to data. However, on the flip side of that, having that much access [15:47.820 --> 15:52.560] to data also makes it easier for cybersecurity professionals to visualize and understand what [15:52.560 --> 15:58.540] the problem is. So it's kind of a double-edged sword and one that I think that I think is [15:58.540 --> 16:03.200] absolutely critically important. There are two sides to that coin and we have to be dealing with [16:03.200 --> 16:10.200] both of them at the same. So just out of curiosity, how many like critical infrastructures would you [16:10.200 --> 16:18.480] work with? We work with several, one of them being telecom that I mentioned earlier. We've also done [16:18.480 --> 16:25.760] work with utility companies like large electrical grids, power grids, stuff like that. We've had [16:25.760 --> 16:32.100] demonstrations in smart cities, so visualizing like camera feeds from around different locations [16:32.100 --> 16:38.140] in a city or a campus, stuff like that. So that speaks a little bit to like traffic flow and then [16:38.140 --> 16:44.320] also security. So on the campus scenario, it was like monitoring video feeds and access points, [16:44.320 --> 16:49.360] who's accessing what at what time, going back through it historically and then also monitoring [16:49.360 --> 16:54.400] that data live. But I would say the biggest one would just be telecom because that's such an [16:54.400 --> 17:00.220] important utility and it's such, most of our customers for C-Signal in the private sector [17:00.220 --> 17:06.220] have that specific use case. And then also some public safety stuff too, I should mention that as [17:06.220 --> 17:12.680] well, like police and firefighting and like wildfire response. So we did have an amazing [17:12.680 --> 17:18.240] use case for our other products, which is the command and control center that was visualizing [17:18.780 --> 17:25.900] wildfire data in Southern California, monitoring and visualizing ground temperature, [17:25.900 --> 17:33.480] fire spread, asset resources, and then also monitoring water response and all of that sort [17:33.480 --> 17:41.660] of stuff too. So yeah. So when you guys are looking at a power plant or telecom or any of [17:41.660 --> 17:47.620] that kind of stuff, what is the most focal point that those utilities tend to be thinking [17:47.620 --> 17:56.300] about? And then in tandem to that, have you guys had to face any unusual requests or [17:56.300 --> 18:01.680] unusual ideas because it's critical infrastructure and critical infrastructure is challenging? [18:03.480 --> 18:09.440] I would say like, you know, working with the power grids and stuff like that, there is a lot of [18:09.900 --> 18:16.880] like older technology and stuff that's like not exactly like the most cutting edge stuff. So [18:16.880 --> 18:22.740] there are a lot of like unexpected types of data that we would have to work with that we [18:22.740 --> 18:28.260] were not anticipating would be the type of data that would be running our critical infrastructure [18:28.260 --> 18:35.360] in our country. But, you know, it's great, I think, to see the interest in the public sector [18:35.360 --> 18:41.580] and in the utility sector for adopting AR and VR technology. So while there is a lot of like, [18:41.580 --> 18:46.600] you know, older databases and older technology, you know, sort of running it, clearly they are [18:46.600 --> 18:52.000] thinking about modernizing that and they are thinking about how that can be in the future. [18:52.000 --> 18:57.320] So that's very heartening for me and definitely very exciting to see the interest that's there. [18:58.260 --> 18:59.180] Yeah. [19:00.340 --> 19:06.560] That's great. And I think a little bit of my background, I actually started another life [19:07.620 --> 19:11.720] a long time ago at DHS. So I was very involved with critical infrastructure. I ran a program [19:11.720 --> 19:16.460] called the Comprehensive Review that actually did the very first systems of systems-based [19:16.460 --> 19:22.840] vulnerability assessments on critical infrastructure from nuclear power plants all the way to the [19:22.840 --> 19:30.460] chemical plants, which you're welcome, chemical sector, you now have CSAT because of our stuff. [19:30.900 --> 19:36.960] And it's challenging, and we've been having this problem probably for 15, 30 years, where [19:36.960 --> 19:42.720] the OT versus the IT is really the complication. And when she's talking about thinking about how [19:42.720 --> 19:48.660] visualizing, you know, an old piece of Siemens hardware that, you know, is never going to be [19:48.660 --> 19:54.100] replaced, there's never going to be anything that does exactly what it does, and then how do you [19:54.100 --> 19:59.820] kludge that together with some high-tech stuff that they have in the IT space? And it's really [19:59.820 --> 20:05.320] scary, and I know I'm using that word scary a lot because these things scare me, like legitimately. [20:05.320 --> 20:09.840] When you start thinking about a nuclear power plant, when you start thinking about a water [20:09.840 --> 20:15.760] utility, when you start thinking about those things, and how hard it is to replace parts, [20:15.760 --> 20:20.840] how hard it is to upgrade the things that keep our infrastructure running, that's just [20:20.840 --> 20:25.780] crazy and insane. Do you have any, like, wild use cases of kludging stuff together? [20:27.120 --> 20:35.080] Yeah, I mean, it was really crazy to me. We actually did an installation with a telecom [20:35.080 --> 20:40.800] company where, you know, it's like it was in another country, but it was the largest telecom [20:40.800 --> 20:44.740] in that other country. And just thinking about, like, the sheer number of people [20:44.740 --> 20:50.940] that utilize that service, and that if this, for whatever reason, this telecom would have [20:50.940 --> 20:55.880] interrupted service, like, people literally in the middle, it was in a country, Norway, [20:55.880 --> 21:00.480] like, way out in the middle of nowhere, would be completely cut off from the rest of humanity. And, [21:00.480 --> 21:05.120] like, having that much responsibility in terms of, you know, obviously we're not operating the [21:05.120 --> 21:10.460] company, but we are visualizing data that they are using to make these very critical decisions, [21:10.460 --> 21:15.300] and, you know, just, like, felt really heavy. And it was a very big realization to me, [21:15.300 --> 21:20.280] the importance of critical infrastructure and the impact, the broad scale impact of it, [21:20.280 --> 21:26.400] that I had never really considered before. In terms of fusing together, like, new and old [21:26.400 --> 21:31.480] technology, one of our products, like I was talking about, the command and control center, [21:31.480 --> 21:38.540] can also be used for training. So, we actually had a situation in a sort of, not a smart city, [21:38.540 --> 21:43.960] but an IoT enabled factory floor, where there was this piece, this old machine, that, like, [21:43.960 --> 21:48.540] was literally from, like, the 80s, that they hadn't updated, that, like you said, there's no [21:48.540 --> 21:55.100] other machine made that does that, and they wanted to use one of our products to put in data on how [21:55.100 --> 21:59.740] to do maintenance on this, how to replace pieces of it. So, we were taking, like, these, like, [21:59.740 --> 22:05.420] literally printed documents on paper, and, like, translating them into multiple steps in this [22:05.420 --> 22:10.520] data visualization. So, like, environment, so someone could put on a headset, look at the [22:10.520 --> 22:15.280] machine, see the information about this really, really old machine, and then see information for [22:15.280 --> 22:21.180] how to perform maintenance on it. How to, you know, replace this specific part, when that part was [22:21.180 --> 22:28.240] last replaced, and be able to work with a machine, but enabled with AR and VR technology. So, that [22:28.240 --> 22:32.280] was really cool to me. It was, like, sort of, like, working on a, for example, like, building [22:32.280 --> 22:37.420] dinosaur bones, or assembling a dinosaur, but using AR and VR technology, this really cool [22:37.420 --> 22:43.140] fusion of, like, very, very old and very, very new. So, yeah, there's a lot of, like, really [22:43.140 --> 22:48.100] cool use cases. You know, data is such a broad term. So, you know, I've talked about everything [22:48.100 --> 22:54.800] from visualizing live data feeds to visualizing historical data feeds, non-geospatial, geospatial, [22:54.800 --> 23:00.160] but, you know, speaking to this last scenario, we also do a lot of stuff when it comes to training. [23:00.160 --> 23:07.000] So, taking data about machines, or about different parts or pieces, and putting it into an immersive [23:07.000 --> 23:12.280] space to help people better perform these maintenance, critical maintenance that they [23:12.280 --> 23:19.500] need to perform on these machines. So, I'm totally going to, like, rope her in [23:19.500 --> 23:23.980] to making some kind of commitment on stage, just so everyone sees it. [23:25.900 --> 23:32.760] I like this training idea, the training in AR and VR. That sounds cool, right, cyber folks? [23:32.760 --> 23:40.800] That sounds cool. And I feel like most cyber security people, like, we like to see things [23:40.800 --> 23:45.280] and understand how they work and take them apart and put them back together again. And right now, [23:45.460 --> 23:50.560] a lot of the tools that we use don't necessarily make that easy for us. There's a lot of us who [23:50.560 --> 23:55.720] can only see things this way or can only see things that way, but imagine the power you would [23:55.720 --> 23:59.980] have to understand your network, imagine the power you would have to actually implement things in [23:59.980 --> 24:07.120] your network if you had that level of visualization. So, do you have any, like, training planned for [24:07.120 --> 24:18.320] the future that might include cyber security? Yes, absolutely. Yes, absolutely. So, as I was [24:18.320 --> 24:22.940] talking about our C signal product, which is the product that allows you to put on the headset [24:22.940 --> 24:28.800] and then have, like, x-ray vision for your, you know, RF spectrum or your wireless network, [24:28.800 --> 24:34.860] we are looking to really hone that product and bring it into the cyber security space. [24:34.860 --> 24:39.960] So, we're adding in a bunch of exciting new features. So, for example, one of them being [24:39.960 --> 24:45.380] you're not only able to see your network and see the data flowing through your network, but it'll [24:45.380 --> 24:52.480] be able to pinpoint the location of different items. So, it can say, hey, you know, we think, [24:52.480 --> 24:57.600] or the system thinks something is transmitting from over there behind the wall. And it'll, [24:57.600 --> 25:03.220] as you get closer, will allow you to exactly pinpoint where that thing may be. And obviously [25:03.220 --> 25:08.880] that thing may be something that shouldn't be there, like a bug or some sort of other [25:10.200 --> 25:14.900] security-related concern. So, that is a feature that, you know, we are working on [25:14.900 --> 25:19.800] and integrating into the product. And we have a bunch of other sort of cyber security focused [25:19.800 --> 25:26.260] features as well on our roadmap. But we are very much looking to provide C-Signal as a tool for [25:26.260 --> 25:32.940] cyber security experts to monitor traffic across the RF spectrum and networks, public, private, [25:32.940 --> 25:39.780] all of those things. I love it. You guys heard it first here. It's happening. [25:39.960 --> 25:46.120] So, one of the really interesting things that stood out to me after working with [25:46.120 --> 25:52.900] BadVR last year and after doing Hack the Capital with Susie this year, [25:53.880 --> 26:00.900] as I was looking for companies for folks that had either devices or technology or infrastructure [26:00.900 --> 26:07.580] that fit into the world of XRB, not a lot of them want to really talk about their security [26:08.140 --> 26:13.500] for some reason. Right? Which if you remember the beginning of the talk, which is why I started [26:13.500 --> 26:18.560] this village, is because I found that there wasn't security built into these devices and we kind of [26:18.560 --> 26:24.260] need to have that. So, a lot of the first round of companies I went to were like, oh, that sounds [26:24.260 --> 26:31.400] so cool. Until we got to the, but we want to hack your stuff. Like, we will responsibly disclose [26:31.400 --> 26:35.780] and we will work with you as a company to make sure that those things are taken care of and [26:35.780 --> 26:41.660] provide you assistance and all of these things. But they were like, we need to get the lawyers [26:41.660 --> 26:49.340] involved. And what I absolutely love about BadVR is she didn't skip a beat. They're like, yes, [26:49.340 --> 26:54.760] we definitely want to do this. And one of the reasons is that Susie herself is very [26:54.760 --> 27:01.520] passionate about privacy and data privacy. So, there are device makers out there. There are [27:01.520 --> 27:06.220] companies out there who are putting that first. And I'm going to throw a shout out right now to [27:06.220 --> 27:13.380] Apple with the Vision Pro coming out and saying it's made with security by design. Because that [27:13.380 --> 27:18.340] is what we need to be doing. That's what all of us need to be doing. And at this cusp right now [27:18.340 --> 27:23.320] where XR is suddenly becoming way more interesting with Apple jumping into the game [27:23.940 --> 27:29.800] and things of that nature, it's so important that the collaboration that we do in the XR Village [27:29.800 --> 27:36.700] goes across all types of organizations, schools, goes across the policy piece that I talked about [27:36.700 --> 27:41.880] before and hackathons. And that's not possible without those private companies who come in and [27:41.880 --> 27:46.420] say, yeah, here's our stuff. Let's do something cool with it. Let's make this happen. We'll be [27:46.420 --> 27:52.720] apart. So, I want to talk a little bit about why you're so passionate about privacy. Because I [27:52.720 --> 27:56.480] think that's really important. And this is a view you're not going to hear from [27:57.960 --> 28:01.040] other very large companies that might be sponsoring us. [28:01.040 --> 28:08.580] Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, I think one thing to mention before I go into this story is, [28:08.580 --> 28:16.560] my product, BadVR, and our software, a lot of people think of data visualization companies [28:16.560 --> 28:23.280] or data companies as making their money off of somehow saving the data that flows through their [28:23.280 --> 28:27.880] system and then selling it on the back end. We don't do that at all. In fact, all of the data [28:27.880 --> 28:33.600] that comes through our system or that you see in our system, we make a huge, like, we go out [28:33.600 --> 28:37.900] of our way to make sure that we don't save it and that we couldn't save it. The way, I mean, [28:37.900 --> 28:41.840] you would have to ask Jad a little bit more about how we do that technically. But that was a big [28:41.840 --> 28:48.540] thing coming for me. Like, I don't have any desire to store or to any way monetize other people's [28:48.540 --> 28:53.920] data. I think paying for access to my product is enough. And we make more than enough money [28:53.920 --> 28:59.160] doing that that we don't need to then also sell people's, like, data out the back door in this [28:59.160 --> 29:05.020] very shady way. So, the reason that I feel this way is, like I had mentioned earlier, I'd worked [29:05.020 --> 29:11.740] before I founded BadVR back in 2018, I was a UX and product designer for other data visualization [29:11.740 --> 29:18.020] and analytics companies. And I, at the very beginning of my career, did not understand [29:18.020 --> 29:24.800] that there was this, like, huge market for data. Until I started really building interfaces to [29:24.800 --> 29:29.460] visualize that data. And once I started doing that, it became very clear to me that there was [29:29.460 --> 29:36.340] this enormous amount of data out there in the world that could be accessed by anyone about me, [29:36.340 --> 29:41.540] about my family. Like, I remember going through some of the data that I was visualizing and [29:41.540 --> 29:47.700] putting my own name in to see all of the information that came up about me. My home, [29:47.700 --> 29:53.100] you know, like, purchases that I had made. If somebody had a nefarious reason to come after me, [29:53.100 --> 29:58.800] they could very easily access this information. And I just felt so violated and I felt, like, [29:58.800 --> 30:04.520] I just felt really icky. And I was, like, I had no idea that this was a thing. I am now then putting [30:04.520 --> 30:08.760] my family members' names into this, you know, database, seeing what comes up about them. And [30:08.760 --> 30:14.220] it just really blew my mind. And it really made me think, like, well, number one, I think data is [30:14.220 --> 30:20.200] an amazing resource. But number two, if I am going to make a company that visualizes data or that [30:20.200 --> 30:26.840] provides a tool to analyze data, I want to make sure that I am not partaking in that aspect of [30:26.840 --> 30:31.220] the industry because I don't like it. I don't think it's ethical. And quite frankly, I want [30:31.220 --> 30:36.140] nothing to do with it. So, I want to make sure that we're using data and visualizing data and [30:36.140 --> 30:43.220] analyzing data and providing data tools in the service of what I consider to be good. Which is [30:43.220 --> 30:49.100] broadening and democratizing access to the insight that you can draw from that data. And not just [30:49.100 --> 30:54.400] using it and abusing it in terms of, like, how much data can we gather, you know, behind people's [30:54.400 --> 30:59.600] backs and how much data can we then monetize and, you know, line our pockets with. So, you know, [30:59.600 --> 31:05.200] that part was very important to me. And I'm very proud to say that my, you know, my technology, [31:05.200 --> 31:09.840] that's not our business model. It never has been and it never will be. So... [31:10.700 --> 31:18.580] Hell yeah. That's awesome. I love it. So, one of the other interesting things that we're trying [31:18.580 --> 31:25.480] to do with XR Village is research. Because there's not a lot of research out there on devices, [31:25.480 --> 31:30.940] on platforms, on the infrastructure. And now we have big players throwing stuff out like [31:30.940 --> 31:37.900] NVIDIA who just is ruling the world now. After, you know, all the XR fun stuff that's come out. [31:37.960 --> 31:44.380] So, as we move forward and as part of our technology relationship, we're working to do [31:44.380 --> 31:49.980] research partnerships with labs. We're working to do research partnerships with companies who [31:49.980 --> 31:55.820] are interested in trying to understand what is going on kind of there and what the use cases [31:55.820 --> 32:02.100] could be. But most importantly, how we can do that safely with security and privacy. [32:02.140 --> 32:08.700] And that's a hard thing. That's not we're not going to solve this problem this weekend. So, [32:08.700 --> 32:15.400] it's going to be years of coordinating not just the research and the technology and the policy [32:15.400 --> 32:22.460] and the legislation, but also we want to be able to do teaching using these tools. So, going out [32:22.460 --> 32:29.320] to B sides all over the country. Going to schools. Going to universities and giving people [32:29.320 --> 32:34.400] opportunities to do the hackathon like the haptics hackathon we have right over there in the [32:34.400 --> 32:43.680] corner using the meta quest. Which is really fun. You should definitely check it out. And also, [32:43.680 --> 32:49.420] really trying to take to the next level the generation that's coming after us who is already [32:49.420 --> 32:55.180] being grown up on this technology and doesn't necessarily understand the security risks that [32:55.180 --> 33:00.440] go to it. Right? So, by having these hackathons, by bringing the technology out, letting them [33:00.440 --> 33:06.680] touch it, play with it, break it, put it back together, they start to understand all of that [33:06.680 --> 33:13.140] data. All of those things that make them think differently about what they should be doing and [33:13.140 --> 33:24.180] on the internet. Now, that is also hard. It's very, very hard. But XR, more than probably any [33:24.180 --> 33:30.620] of the villages here, and yes, I just said that, it covers all of them. It covers everything. Which [33:30.620 --> 33:35.520] is one of the reasons we wanted to do all the collaborations this year. So, if you want to talk [33:35.520 --> 33:40.800] about what's happening in XR with ICS village, there are power plants. There are things that [33:40.800 --> 33:45.100] are happening in telecom. There are things that are already going on in that space. If you want [33:45.100 --> 33:50.680] to talk about the adversary village who we're partnering with and the red team village, that [33:50.680 --> 33:56.000] bug bounty on the devices themselves, on the software itself, on the infrastructure, that is [33:56.000 --> 34:03.240] absolutely critical. But we also have to start thinking about bringing in, you know, other folks [34:03.240 --> 34:07.680] like the biohacking village. One talk that we were going to have this year, but I think we're [34:07.680 --> 34:14.360] going to do it as a recording, was a collab with biohacking. And I have four titanium vertebrae [34:14.360 --> 34:21.060] because I used to blow up bombs. And so, I have a spinal surgeon and we're kind of in the early [34:21.060 --> 34:27.100] phases of planning my next spinal surgery. And he kind of just lightly dropped into a conversation [34:27.100 --> 34:35.860] not too long ago that he's going to be using VR. And I was like, what? Can we talk about that more? [34:35.860 --> 34:40.980] I would like to know some things. And so, right there, I just started asking him questions that [34:40.980 --> 34:45.880] he had really bad answers to. Like, okay, so you've got me on the table and you've got this [34:45.880 --> 34:50.700] device. Does everybody have access to it? Like, can anybody go in and calibrate it? Can anybody [34:50.700 --> 34:56.620] go do whatever? And he's like, yeah, yeah, anybody, speaking as a, anyone can get in. It's [34:56.620 --> 35:01.100] really easy to get in. It's really easy to use and manipulate. And I'm like, do you hear what [35:01.100 --> 35:08.440] you're saying? I'm pretty sure I'm not going to let you operate on my spine with that. But it [35:08.440 --> 35:12.240] goes so much further than that, too. You know, when you think about the password protections, [35:12.240 --> 35:17.680] when you think about, you know, what is that projecting? I know a lot of hackers and I know [35:17.680 --> 35:22.840] some of them don't like me and I don't want them getting into my little VR spinal surgery [35:22.840 --> 35:28.740] and giving me a couple of extra vertebrae, right? But all of the villages that are here [35:28.740 --> 35:35.020] have an XR component to the world that they're in right now. For example, we also have a [35:35.020 --> 35:41.600] partnership with the aerospace village and TSA where we are working on an event that's coming [35:41.600 --> 35:48.200] up and we're going to have another hackathon there coming up. But the idea is that right now, [35:48.200 --> 35:55.660] like Alaskan Airlines and other airlines are actually using XR to train pilots. Now, [35:55.660 --> 36:01.740] that sounds really cool, right? That sounds like amazing. And so you think about it a little bit [36:01.740 --> 36:09.000] more. So anybody can go in and get this program and teach themselves what the inside of any [36:09.000 --> 36:16.980] cockpit looks like. That is scary. Another scary thing that I've found in this space. [36:17.120 --> 36:22.200] So what's really interesting about our village is that we have the opportunity to cross section [36:22.200 --> 36:27.600] across all of the other villages who have an XR component and do really interesting, [36:27.600 --> 36:35.700] amazing things. That's why we have T-shirts. They're for sale. And bucket hats and really, [36:35.700 --> 36:42.080] you know, cool merch. It says it takes a village. DEF CON, it takes a village. We are one of the [36:42.080 --> 36:48.300] fortunate villages that has the ability to impact so many other sectors. And that's a good thing. [36:48.300 --> 36:53.520] That's a really exciting thing. So I'm really looking forward to what comes next. What are [36:53.520 --> 36:59.900] you looking forward to? I'm looking forward to a great number of things. I'm actually really [36:59.900 --> 37:08.080] excited for our we have released C-Signal, a version of C-Signal, which is the RF visualization [37:08.780 --> 37:15.980] technology. There is a demo version of that available now in the Quest app lab. So if you [37:15.980 --> 37:20.200] have a MetaQuest headset, you can go to the app lab and download a version of that. So I'm really [37:20.200 --> 37:25.960] excited about this. So you can try it out at home. It's a lot more limited than our enterprise [37:25.960 --> 37:32.360] software, but it allows everyone with a MetaQuest headset to, for free, download the technology and [37:32.360 --> 37:37.140] just sort of get a sneak peek of it. So you can look at your home Wi-Fi network. You can play [37:37.140 --> 37:42.380] around with moving the routers and, yeah, reach out and touch your signals. Literally reach out [37:42.380 --> 37:47.960] and touch them. So I'm really excited about that. I'm also really excited about the upcoming [37:48.920 --> 37:55.660] sort of fusion, as I mentioned earlier, of AR and VR technology into one headset. So, you know, [37:55.660 --> 38:02.080] this is sort of happening with the Apple Vision Pro, where you have, like, a headset that is [38:02.080 --> 38:08.060] VR or AR. It can do one or the other, or it can do a little version of both. So you have the [38:08.060 --> 38:12.140] pass-through technology where the headset can be turned on and you can still see the world around [38:12.140 --> 38:17.160] you. I think that evolution of the hardware is very exciting, and I think it's happening a lot [38:17.160 --> 38:24.960] faster than originally anticipated. And lastly, I'm really excited about seeing, as you mentioned, [38:24.960 --> 38:33.200] privacy continue to be and continue to grow as a concern within the XR space. So, you know, [38:33.200 --> 38:41.840] XR hardware has so many more sensors and cameras and things in it than your smartphone does. And [38:41.940 --> 38:46.900] a lot of people are very concerned about, you know, oh, my smartphone, like, is giving away [38:46.900 --> 38:52.740] my location. It's tracking me. The microphone's listening to me. Now, imagine if your smartphone [38:52.740 --> 39:00.160] was on steroids and had video feeds of your irises and, you know, was taking temperature readings of [39:00.160 --> 39:06.580] your skin and perspiration readings and could really anticipate or even know before you knew [39:06.580 --> 39:12.120] how you were feeling or what you would react to. And imagine that along with the microphone, [39:12.120 --> 39:16.480] you know, and instead of having one camera, there's 50 cameras on it and it has all these [39:16.480 --> 39:22.880] other things. That's what an XR headset is, essentially. It is a device that has 50, [39:22.880 --> 39:30.740] like, many, many, many more sensors than even your iPhone. So, I am so excited to partner with [39:30.740 --> 39:38.780] Kenan on this and to really help drive forward the interest in securing the privacy of all of [39:38.780 --> 39:44.300] those sensors in the XR space. So, as people are developing apps like my company does and other [39:44.300 --> 39:50.660] companies do, that they're developed with this idea that security is of tantamount importance. [39:50.660 --> 39:56.980] Especially if, you know, kids are using these devices in classrooms, which I think they should. [39:56.980 --> 40:03.280] I think there are some really amazing use cases for using XR in the classroom or in the workplace [40:03.280 --> 40:09.660] for workplace training, whether that be for pilots or surgeons. But to really do that effectively, [40:09.660 --> 40:14.060] they need to secure the headset. So, I think that's a really exciting thing. And then I also [40:14.060 --> 40:20.580] think there's this idea that I have of when it comes to security with XR, there's, you know, [40:20.660 --> 40:26.140] the digital security, securing all of the, you know, data that's coming out of these sensors. [40:26.140 --> 40:31.440] There's the physical security of actually securing the headset, securing the hardware, [40:31.440 --> 40:34.880] and all of the sensors in the hardware. But I also think that people need to [40:35.500 --> 40:41.400] be aware of a third version, which is the experiential security. So, as you are experiencing [40:41.400 --> 40:46.960] an application in XR, that you are able to remain safe. Both physically safe, so you're not, like, [40:46.960 --> 40:52.060] walking into walls or walking into other people. But also safe from, like, the data that's being [40:52.060 --> 40:57.920] generated from that is not negatively impacting you in the future or not negatively impacting [40:57.920 --> 41:02.420] the experience that you're having. You know, keeping people safe within those experiences. [41:03.040 --> 41:07.900] You know, making sure that, for example, adults in a chat room are not in a chat room with kids [41:07.900 --> 41:12.560] and having, you know, experiences like that that they shouldn't be allowed to have. So, [41:12.560 --> 41:16.940] I think bringing attention to all of these things is a really important part of driving forward. [41:16.960 --> 41:23.680] All of the security or all of the, you know, adoption of XR technology can't happen without [41:23.680 --> 41:29.080] security being front of mind with that. Or it can't happen responsibly. It can happen, [41:29.080 --> 41:32.800] but we don't want it to happen unless it's happening responsibly. [41:34.220 --> 41:41.000] Thank you so much. Like I said before, isn't she a badass? It's okay, you can clap and yell. [41:41.480 --> 41:47.300] She's pretty amazing. What BadVR is doing is really amazing. The technology is amazing. It's [41:47.300 --> 41:53.620] all amazing. So, as we kind of wrap up here, we wanted to give a little time back to some folks, [41:53.620 --> 42:01.600] but first, I'm going to go full-blown XRV pitch on you guys, okay? So, we have the XR village that [42:01.600 --> 42:07.520] is over by the main door. You'll see the balloons, the very big, bright balloons that say XRV. [42:07.520 --> 42:13.040] We have a haptics playground over there where you can go get your hands on some haptics and [42:13.040 --> 42:18.480] see what they feel like and what it looks like and all of that fun jazz. We also have a haptics [42:18.480 --> 42:24.940] hackathon that is happening today and tomorrow, and come participate. We've got representatives [42:24.940 --> 42:31.280] on board from Meta who will actually be sitting there with you, and then we will responsibly [42:31.280 --> 42:37.700] disclose any bugs that we find, and they have told us that they will use that in their bug [42:37.700 --> 42:43.900] bounty program so you can get prizes for it. As a learning experience, as I mentioned before, [42:43.900 --> 42:50.980] we're going to have Dave Maynor live streaming on Sunday. He'll be our last event to do kind [42:50.980 --> 42:57.220] of training for all of the people who go through the event, the hackathon event today and tomorrow, [42:57.220 --> 43:02.460] but take it to the next level and kind of show them what crazy, crazy, crazy looks like. [43:02.720 --> 43:13.000] Like I said, he's going to be doing that using a MetaQuest Pro to hack into a MetaQuest. So it [43:13.000 --> 43:17.920] should be really interesting and exciting. But we have talks going on all day today, [43:17.920 --> 43:22.880] tomorrow, and on Sunday. We have a policy discussion that's really interesting in [43:22.880 --> 43:28.500] collaboration with the policy village where we have Liz Wharton and Britton Heller coming in [43:28.500 --> 43:36.660] as two fiery lawyers to talk about the craziness that is the XR space. Both very, very privacy [43:36.660 --> 43:44.060] tuned in, and Britton is one of the most knowledgeable people about XR, both privacy [43:44.060 --> 43:50.240] and law. So that's going to be a really interesting debate. We also have the history of XR. We have [43:50.240 --> 43:55.120] our executive director, Star Brown, who's going to be leading that kind of fireside chat like this [43:55.120 --> 44:04.020] with Bob Gorley, who knows a tremendous amount of history about XR. It is really fascinating to [44:04.020 --> 44:08.660] talk to him about that. So if you see him around, definitely ask him. And then we have some fun [44:08.660 --> 44:14.540] stuff that's just happening. We have a GLAAD scientist who's doing a VR musical experience, [44:14.540 --> 44:23.420] and I believe that's happening right after us, I think. So it's really cool. And that's kind of [44:23.420 --> 44:29.560] it. If you want to get involved with XR Village, please come over and see us, see me, see Star, [44:29.560 --> 44:35.140] see Ayliff, and talk to us about how you want to get involved or what you want to learn and [44:35.140 --> 44:40.320] how we can work together to do this. Because it takes a village, people. [44:41.360 --> 44:47.340] And I just wanted to say as well, thank you so much for having me. You can find Bad VR right next to [44:47.340 --> 44:52.380] the XR Village booth. We're a big red thing and we're like a little white mask, like a [44:52.380 --> 44:57.920] little bandit mask. So come visit our table, come get a demo of C-Signal, come pick up some shirts, [44:57.920 --> 45:03.940] we have some really badass shirts that I designed myself, stickers, pins, a whole bunch of good [45:03.940 --> 45:08.500] stuff. But we'd love to hear from you, we'd love to give you a demo, and we'd love to have you [45:08.500 --> 45:10.320] stop by. Thank you. [45:11.040 --> 45:18.340] All right, so we're going to kind of wrap up. I do want to give anybody an opportunity to ask a [45:18.340 --> 45:24.880] question if you have a burning question that can't wait. All right, good, we're going to give the [45:24.880 --> 45:30.340] village back some time, the next village, and thank you guys so much for coming to the talk. [45:30.340 --> 45:32.740] We look forward to having you at our events this week.