start	end	text
4260	11740	The proposition is, it has to do with the acronym you heard several times today, NISQ.
12840	15560	Noisy Intermediate Scale Quantum.
15560	19400	You know we are in the NISQ era right now.
19400	33640	And so the proposition for the village is, this village believes that the current state of NISQ is already enabling quantum advantage for those who know how to use these technologies.
34240	39460	Arguing for, I'm sorry, yes, for the proposition is Rafal Janik.
39460	41640	Other way around, sorry.
41800	44540	Konstantinos, you're arguing for the proposition.
45380	48200	Raf, you're arguing against the proposition.
48520	54900	And I wanted to say this is so very important because we heard from both of them earlier today.
54900	57420	You both know they know their stuff.
57420	60200	And it is going to help us come to our conclusion.
60300	64080	So first for the proposition, Konstantinos.
64080	65720	If you like we can switch halfway.
65720	66660	Yeah sure.
69280	80980	So do we need fault-tolerant quantum computing to do anything useful?
82100	84100	I don't think so.
84280	91200	If there's one thing I've learned in this decade of quantum that I've been messing around, we get surprised all the time.
91200	94860	So just real high level, first of all, we constantly are getting surprised.
94860	105780	We find little performance edges here and there, little clever ways to do things like hybrid, where some of it's classical, some of it's quantum, and you put the two together and you see some kind of like performance edge.
106280	119440	So I'm not gonna worry too much about like provable, benchmarkable advantage so much as like can you identify some step in a process that could be improved with quantum over classical.
119440	120860	So I think we can.
120860	122740	And I've already seen signs of it.
123900	127380	Recently IBM did their error mitigation.
127500	138120	So they were able to show that basically we were able to cancel out some noise by doing lots of runs and statistically removing it kind of accounted for it, just to keep it real simple.
138360	151420	So it's error mitigation, but there's also error suppression, where you can understand how a particular machine works, and then, for example, you can go through and flip something to reverse an error before it starts to form.
153640	159780	So these kinds of things could already show some benefit, and they did in the case of the IBM papers.
161260	168540	So when you look at all those kinds of things, you're going to start to see some provable, I guess what I like to call a customer advantage.
168540	172420	It's like when you look at everything and you apply it, you kind of get some kind of edge.
172620	184220	I wrote a paper on doing portfolio optimization with cardinality constraints, and we were able to show some performance gain using D-Wave's hybrid solver and some approaches .
184380	186700	So yeah, it's not a benchmarkable advantage.
186700	190680	I'm not claiming that from rooftops, but we were able to show some gain to that customer.
190980	194540	So I do think when you consider all those things, we're getting close.
194540	204680	And one last thing I'll add, Quantinium recently, they did that whole thing with three, we'll call them logical in quotes, qubits that were able to simulate the energy states of an H2 molecule.
204680	206140	So we're getting there.
206140	207420	We're like, we're approaching.
207420	208240	We're not going to go.
208240	212100	So I think these little tweaks along the way will enable that.
212220	212820	Awesome.
212820	213820	Your rebuttal.
214260	215860	Or your argument against it.
216020	220860	I feel a little bit underprepared without memes on the screen behind me right now.
222580	227940	So quantum computing has a lot of promise, and it's actually a really hard path to get there.
228420	241900	Not only do I not believe that we're at the position right now where we're delivering on that promise, I'd also like to add that it's actually a distraction from the hard work that we have to do to focus on the NIS era.
242080	243900	And there are a couple definitions to cover.
243900	245760	The first one is quantum advantage.
245920	251020	This is not being able to do something better than a classical computer.
251020	256780	This is being able to do a meaningful task better than a classical computer.
257200	270100	If anyone's curious, today while sitting over there preparing for this debate, I did a quick search and I found 41 instances of people claiming quantum advantage over the last 20 years.
270140	272440	All of those have not come true.
272440	275860	They really fall down for two reasons.
275860	279960	One, they're flat-out fraudulent, which is probably the bulk of them.
279960	291200	The other one comes down to the fact that classical algorithms are incredibly good and many quantum researchers are not classical algorithm researchers.
291260	302920	So what you actually see, and historically we've seen this with multiple companies, is a claim of quantum advantage and two days later a proof that there's a classical method that is far better.
303100	306460	Also, there's a lot of value in quantum computing today.
306460	308180	I don't want to discount that.
308240	313540	There's the value of what we're doing scientifically and all the research it's been able to unlock.
313540	320400	There's the value around quantum adjacent technologies such as, you know, we've heard quantum inspired algorithms.
320400	325460	All these are delivering value, but the one thing we have not seen is quantum advantage.
325560	337340	And you would not believe how many companies, how many academic institutions, how many researchers only care about running a NISQ right now because they're able to run on hardware.
337360	351720	Instead of thinking, how do we prepare for the hardware that's going to be here five years, ten years from now, moving past the NISQ era, not necessarily into fault-tolerant, but maybe to not noisy intermediate-scale quantum computers.
351760	359480	Quantum computers that have gate fidelities and qubit fidelities that actually allow us to go deep enough in algorithms to show meaningful value.
359800	361920	Great, we have ten minutes for rebuttals.
361920	363420	So, your first rebuttal.
363900	370380	Yeah, well, I mean, I don't disagree with anything you said, technically, so I don't know if I'm going to set this off on you.
372120	373380	It's all good.
374240	382460	I just think that we're not, you know, I wasn't bringing up any examples, obviously, of the advantage claims that were useless.
382460	383220	I hate that.
383220	386360	It's like, look, we did this thing that you're never going to do, but we did it better.
386360	387420	It's like, okay, cool.
387920	390820	It's just like, I don't like when someone writes code and then hacks it.
390820	392240	That's kind of useless, too.
393220	396860	You don't want to, like, write your implementation and hack it.
397800	406340	So, I agree in that space.
406340	409100	And that's why I got big time into quantum-inspired.
409100	412600	You know, that's why attention networks, we're hoping to see some gains there.
412600	416680	But I keep seeing that hybrid thing, you know, and I can't let it go.
416680	425740	I just got this feeling that we're going to be able to take advantage of some of those hybrid learnings and apply them in the work stream.
425740	428560	Because, like, very few problems are solved in one step, one thing.
428800	430760	You know, like supply chain issues.
430760	433660	There's, like, a million places where you could try and improve something.
434540	441640	So, I just have a feeling in my gut that we're going to see the ability to tweak just a few of those the right way.
441640	444980	And they're like, we're sort of, like, knocking on the door of that.
444980	447760	And then there's also the machine technologies that are evolving so fast.
447760	449800	So, I just go into it for a second.
450180	451920	Like, neutral atom, for example.
452180	456980	We're talking high qubit counts, really long lifetimes.
457000	467480	Like, we're expecting the next generation of neutral atom machines that are coming out within a year or so to have lifetimes of, like, I don't know, tangling times of 10 seconds or so.
467480	473340	10 seconds is like, you know, the age of the universe, practically, when you're thinking about a quantum computer, you know.
473580	477640	So, if we have a tangle time of 10 seconds, it makes things a little more interesting.
478320	481640	Right now, they're running what's called analog mode, which is, like, not quite.
481640	484540	You can't run gates on them, so it's a little closer to annealing than it is to gates.
484540	485880	But they will be running gates.
485940	492680	And they're gonna have modes where you're gonna be able to sacrifice a few extra qubits to get, like, better fidelity when needed.
492840	505560	So, whenever you think about those, like, out-of-the-box approaches, I just have a feeling we're gonna see, like, at least a few of the problems show, like, some kind of advantage relatively soon, without true, you know, fault tolerance.
506340	506920	Great.
506920	508120	Rob, your rebuttal.
508740	514640	I mean, this might get into a weird debate because we're gonna start agreeing with each other more than disagreeing.
514980	518600	But I'd like to point out a few things that were brought up a moment ago.
519080	521340	Longer lifetimes, better fidelities.
521340	523900	This actually pushes us out of the misc era.
524240	532940	Everything that we're talking about doing, that we want to do, requires much longer lifetimes, much better fidelities.
532940	540840	We know a handful of algorithms, and you can count them on one hand today, that can prove quantum advantage.
542080	543760	That's a little bit worrying.
543760	556720	Instead of worrying about which optimization problem can we try to jam onto a processor today, we should be worrying about how do we actually expand the number of algos that can provide quantum advantage in the future.
557440	564820	Maybe even a little more scary than that is the fact that only one of those provides exponential advantage.
565260	572980	And there's been papers out of Google AI in the past that demonstrate, even with fault tolerance, quadratic advantage might not be enough.
573000	586000	The overheads to build a quantum computer, the way that you actually perform the error correction, might require much higher speedups than quadratic in order to actually overcome the overhead.
586060	600000	So I would encourage everyone again to not worry about jamming your algo today, your H2 molecule, which you can simulate on your laptop and calculate the ground state on, without needing a quantum computer.
600000	615080	But actually start focusing on understanding how do you improve the readout method for a quantum computer beyond the quantum phase estimation, which pretty much every quantum chemistry algo is based on today.
615340	631020	We have a few more minutes for rebuttals, but those of you just coming in, I want you to know what we're debating is the state of current quantum computers and if the state of current quantum computers is good enough to give advantage, real strategic advantage,
631020	632920	to those who really know the technology.
632920	636280	We're arguing for and against and then we're in the middle of our rebuttals.
636280	639400	In a few minutes we'll get to audience questions and answers and inputs.
639500	643340	So we have two more minutes for final comments before we get to questions and answers.
643360	645860	In keeping with the theme, I agree with everything you said.
647960	648640	Guys!
649060	650140	I'm sorry.
651860	653400	We agree but disagree.
653400	653800	Yeah .
654400	661980	But like you said about not worrying about doing a thing that you can simulate on your laptop or whatever, the whole point is like the way it was done, right?
661980	668100	You know, just like the first time we ran Schumer's algorithm, it wasn't that we couldn't do 15 is 5 times 3.
668100	669300	I mean, you could do that.
669300	670780	It's just the way it was run.
670780	681340	So like the fact that we're approaching fault tolerance through these logical qubits, that we're doing things like error suppression, mitigation, like these are like the building blocks.
681340	683940	So I just view them as incredibly important for that purpose.
683940	691800	Even if we could still run the math on a classical machine, I feel like without those building blocks being proven, we're not going to get far enough fast enough.
691800	695500	I actually like the Shor example quite a bit.
696080	702500	So I think I had the meme up earlier, which was factoring 15 into its primes versus the promise of Shor's.
702500	711740	When Shor's first came out, the implementation actually would never run on a physical quantum computer with any imperfections.
711740	713620	You needed the idealistic machine.
713920	731260	And what I would say has been much more important to the development of actually running Shor's has been the work done from the top down, bringing the overheads required for Shor's down, instead of worrying about can you demonstrate factoring 15 on a quantum computer.
731260	738220	It's again a great flex, I would say, to do that and to show that, but it's not doing actual meaningful work.
738500	757760	One final point that can probably prove that there is no real quantum advantage, and it's the fact that the people like myself and the folks from Oxford Quantum Circuits are not locked away in a basement right now, working for whichever government that they happen to be under the control of.
757760	766780	Because that really will happen as we get closer and closer to true quantum advantage, because the regulations just haven't caught up to where the technology is headed.
768480	770720	Yeah, I was just thinking they're going to steal the machines.
770720	772280	I didn't want them to steal you guys too.
772280	774260	I think we go with them.
774260	776120	There's no separating the two.
776200	780180	And to be fair, it won't be me, but those two guys are definitely in trouble.
781020	785920	I know there's no true quantum advantage right now, because everyone would know about it.
785920	787440	It would be big news.
787440	793060	But I do believe that we're going to have actual usable use cases.
793060	799360	I just think we're going to have them before we're proclaiming true fault-tolerant intense gate caps.
800560	802940	And then watch out for those oddball developments.
803720	805700	Every once in a while, one of them is going to come true.
805700	810980	Maybe not that Chinese paper that you need 327 qubits to crack RSA.
810980	812240	Maybe not that one.
812400	814440	But something like that might happen too.
814860	816940	That's the one thing I just want to remind you of.
816940	819840	These surprises are just things we never would have thought of.
820240	821320	I keep seeing things.
821320	822680	I'm like, I didn't see that coming.
822680	823220	Cool.
823460	825960	So that's one of the greatest things about working quantum.
827760	828340	Thanks.
828340	831360	And now it's time to transition to your inputs before we vote.
831360	837960	You get an opportunity to ask questions, make comments, push back, make your own arguments, and then we will vote on the proposition.
837960	838740	I saw yours first.
838740	839140	Please, sir.
839700	845000	So what do you think is holding up the development of those quantum algorithms?
845000	849820	Is it that we don't have the right people trying to build the quantum algorithms right now?
849820	855600	Or that we're lacking hardware to play around with to validate those, the simulation capabilities?
856100	856960	What are your thoughts?
856960	861760	All right, just to repeat the question, it is, what do you think is holding up the development of these quantum capabilities?
862380	863400	Both of you, please.
863400	868380	I think broadly, I would say tooling.
868600	872720	And I know it might be a very simple answer, but it actually encompasses quite a bit.
873360	877600	You know, somebody mentioned it's like being in the 1940s right now, quantum technology.
877680	880680	I'd say that that's generous where we are.
881020	884780	We're hoping we're going to move more quickly compared to digital computing.
884900	891940	But it really is like, you know, before the development of digital computing, trying to come up with potential algorithms.
893300	897540	We don't have the software tooling to allow researchers to do what they need to do.
897540	900840	We don't have the hardware tooling for them to be able to test it out.
901680	908380	And unfortunately, we also don't have the person power in order to actually go after this very aggressively.
909560	915360	You know, I'll plug a little bit of the work that the team at the company I work at did, Xanadu.
916360	927860	Looking at the simulation of batteries, again, not on today's computers, but in ones that might exist in a decade or in five years from now, they reduced the gate count by a factor of 40,000.
928300	928840	Right?
928960	931140	And this is, I would say, low-hanging fruit.
931140	931940	They might disagree.
931940	933280	That was a lot of hard work.
934300	936480	But these are the type of gains that we can make.
936480	940560	Unfortunately, the total gate count that you need is still a ways away.
940660	949520	But we should be pushing that from the top down as we push the hardware from the bottom up until they finally converge in some place where we can deliver something meaningful.
951120	955000	Yeah, some of this is theoretical, right?
955000	959880	If you think about it, the greatest algorithms of all time were developed without quantum gear, right?
959880	960700	They just work.
961020	963040	You know, you go right back to the very first one.
963500	965600	Well, they're still the greatest of all time.
966500	969860	So they were in 1994, 1996, we had nothing.
969860	971140	You know, they were just a dream.
972160	976540	So I do think at some level it's going to be ingenuity, you know?
976600	979280	And it might not even be human ingenuity, right?
979280	984700	Like, for all we know, we'll get sparks of AGI in a quantum vein.
984700	991860	You know, you'll be like, hey, insert name of LLME love, write me a new quantum algorithm, and it might be possible.
992880	993920	So there's that too.
993920	995120	It might not be us.
995360	1000640	Or AGI might solve some of the engineering hurdles and things.
1000640	1009740	Not to turn this into a whole LLM discussion, but just because of what I've seen with, like, working with tensor networks and compressing them, I think there's a lot more potential there that could be tapped.
1009740	1011140	So I would like to see that.
1011140	1015300	So I think what we're missing is also that we're just limiting it to human beings.
1015360	1017360	And it might be, you know, one of our friends.
1017360	1019140	Before they kill us, they might help us.
1021460	1022060	Great.
1022060	1023000	There's a comment here.
1023000	1023660	Thanks.
1024440	1031280	So in your definition of quantum advantage, you mentioned meaningful tasks.
1032360	1039620	And you also mentioned, I heard, go around real strategic advantage and something meaningful.
1039680	1051460	I want to know what were the benchmarks and the measurements that determine what a meaningful task is, rather than the terms kind of sounding like they are shrouded by subjects.
1051940	1055520	Good question about what is a meaningful task in your mind.
1056080	1058940	I can tell you what not a meaningful task is.
1058940	1070420	And it's an achievement I'm very proud of that, again, Google demonstrated first, but we were able to achieve at Xanadu, which is something called quantum supremacy or quantum computational advantage.
1070420	1089120	And this is cherry picking a mathematical task that a quantum computer is really good at, but classical computers are very bad at, but that you can demonstrate mathematically from first principles that you've done with a quantum computer and it would take you millions of years,
1089120	1094920	hundreds of years, whatever it is, but much longer with all the computational power in the world to deliver.
1094920	1098840	And this has been demonstrated now five times, I believe, maybe four times.
1099360	1103020	Right, on an optical and a photonic and a supercomputer.
1103120	1110160	Great engineering milestones, whether they're necessary to get to where you're going, it depends on your your roadmap.
1110420	1115040	Now, quantum advantage, it's not a very well defined term.
1115040	1119320	In fact, none of these terms are, they kind of exist out in the zeitgeist.
1119760	1123040	But what I would say is, it comes down to money.
1123040	1131680	If it's something that somebody is willing to pay you for, and somebody doesn't show up the next day and say, I could do this faster classically.
1131680	1132660	So let me rephrase that.
1132660	1138820	If somebody who is well informed is willing to pay you for it, then it's real quantum advantage.
1138960	1146700	And very honestly, it's not something we've seen yet from any quantum company, unless they've achieved it and have been incredibly secret.
1148020	1149100	Yeah.
1149380	1155180	So with quantum advantage, right, you're just, it has to be useful.
1155200	1157400	It's moving the goal post argument.
1157400	1161940	So some scientists don't like it because they're like, no, no, no, if quantum could do better than classical, that's advantage.
1162060	1164340	But again, it's a useless problem.
1164340	1170140	Are you just inventing some, you know, a hamster running in a wheel for no purpose, and quantum can run faster?
1170140	1171520	It's kind of useless, right?
1171680	1174840	So that's sort of what we've had so far, unfortunately.
1175300	1180140	To get some of the advantage like I'm talking about, we've had to do other things too.
1180140	1187060	Like I talked about tensor networks before, like, you know, we've used those to compress neural networks and then layer them in and et cetera.
1187060	1191960	Like you get some other little bits of advantage along the way, and then you get your performance increases.
1191960	1194080	But yeah, I can't claim we have quantum advantage.
1194360	1211340	One thing to be careful of when you see these claims, often people will say this can't be simulated as a claim to prove the power of the quantum computer.
1211380	1214980	But we can't simulate on a quantum level this table, right?
1214980	1219440	But we don't have the control over it to actually make it do anything useful.
1219520	1224240	So a lot of claims kind of fall short when it comes to the hardware.
1224240	1231820	I think somebody mentioned a large-scale entangling coming out of China, a number of qubits that if they are fully entangled... 51.
1231820	1233160	Yeah, it's very impressive.
1233160	1242740	But now the next question that needs to be asked, can they exert full control over those 51 qubits to actually do something useful?
1242740	1246980	Because if they can't, then I mean it comes down to the thing that I can point to.
1246980	1250120	Look at my five million entangled qubits.
1250260	1254580	Don't worry for how long they're entangled or whether I can control them or not, but they're right here.
1254880	1257680	I'm pretty sure if you had five million entangled qubits, it doesn't matter a lot.
1257680	1260040	I'm pretty sure it's right here.
1260620	1262520	There's five million qubits right here.
1264900	1265520	Questions?
1265520	1266460	Yes, here, please.
1266480	1274020	Basic question here, in part because you've already covered this, I came a little late, but what are the consequences of breaching quantum tech?
1274020	1284940	I mean, you know, everybody talks about the advantages we have once we reach that stage, right, of using it, maybe commercializing it or something, but what are the consequences, the cold, like the cold hard truth of what it means?
1286880	1293340	Also, to the gentleman on the right, did anybody tell you you look like Sheldon from the Big Bang Theory?
1295600	1297040	It's way cooler.
1297460	1302560	Yeah, I've been accused of talking like people don't understand what I'm saying.
1303240	1309980	All right, so the question, to repeat the question, it's about what happens when we reach this state of a significant quantum advantage.
1310660	1313680	Yeah, so a couple things will happen, right?
1314220	1325560	If we have advantage and a large enough scale machine, we're at DEF CON, so there's the obvious thing that's going to happen, major cryptographic problems, and that all begins next year, by the way.
1325560	1331660	NIST is going to publish this new standard, so starting next year, that's when the quantum apocalypse begins, because you have to start fixing it.
1331660	1336220	Once the government says this is deprecated, you've got to fix it, whether you believe in quantum computers or not.
1336320	1338320	So the apocalypse is here anyway.
1338320	1341560	So that's going to happen one way or another, if you're the person fixing this stuff.
1341640	1345900	What doesn't happen is we're going to start solving problems that we never thought we'd solve before.
1346380	1348720	I think they're going to use less energy.
1349780	1359560	Even though you imagine these refrigerators and all that, still, a quantum computer does a whole lot in a very quick period of time, with very little actual energy being expended.
1359720	1362000	So that's the major thing that's going to happen.
1362000	1365560	We're going to have these huge problems being solved that we were never able to tackle before.
1365560	1367440	Things may be involved in the climate.
1368020	1370400	Modeling chemicals that can take carbon out of the air.
1370400	1370920	We don't know.
1370920	1374360	It's like the use cases are almost unlimited when you get to that level.
1374360	1376940	So it's a really exciting thing to look forward to.
1377640	1378960	So is it a series?
1380300	1383880	No, because I think we're going to start preparing for the cryptography.
1383880	1389600	And Chrome is about to add, in version 116, they're about to add their hybrid post-quantum to that.
1389600	1392280	They've already had it in AWS.
1392560	1394780	So these things are happening already.
1394780	1397920	I think if we get ahead of it, it'll be like with Y2K.
1397920	1398980	Nothing happened.
1399120	1401220	It was like, oh crap, it's okay.
1401260	1402820	So it might be fine.
1402820	1403760	Are you sure?
1404880	1406240	That nothing happened?
1409040	1412640	There are a couple applications that people think will come first.
1413300	1415780	It was mentioned, quantum chemistry.
1415780	1427640	So basically, one thing that a quantum computer is most likely good at, and again, we don't really know this until we're able to actually run it and prove it, but it's at simulating quantum systems.
1427980	1439740	So this means things like, you know, building better batteries, because now you can simulate all the different electrolytes you would want to without actually have to go through and manufacture a battery.
1440140	1441980	It was mentioned the climate impact.
1441980	1451640	So this is usually around catalysts, usually based around transition metals that are very hard to simulate on a quantum level right now using traditional methods.
1451880	1461500	But would require a modest, still a ridiculous compared to NISQ, but a modest for a quantum quantum computer number of cubits in order to actually go backward.
1461920	1463300	But I'd say we don't know.
1463300	1469060	It's like sitting in, you know, 1920 and saying, hey, what are we going to do with digital computers?
1469440	1474720	I don't think we have any idea what, like, the equivalent of the quantum tender application is going to be.
1474860	1478980	It's going to take, you know, a good amount of time to get there.
1478980	1480660	We'll have a lot of thoughts, though.
1482240	1491460	We have time for a few more questions before we vote on the proposition that they have been debating on this issue of quantum compute today.
1491460	1495380	Is there any advantage by really knowing them?
1495500	1498280	So here, please, first, and then we'll come back to you.
1499460	1518080	What is your perspective on the investment of the relationship of quantum and quantum technology as a whole, including computing and energy as resources dwindle for building batteries and building computers in general?
1518080	1519780	Do you see investment?
1519780	1522620	How do you see that investment happening?
1522620	1528160	Discuss, please, the investment and the opportunity between energy and quantum.
1528680	1529520	Sure.
1530280	1539940	So from the energy perspective, quantum computers don't operate faster than classical computers.
1539940	1542120	They don't process everything in parallel.
1542120	1546320	The best example is leveraging quantum mechanics.
1546320	1555620	You can essentially encode your problem, your very hard problem, on a very complicated system and control it to get the answer.
1555620	1558840	So you're sidestepping the difficult calculation.
1558840	1563740	By difficult, I mean completely intractable by classical computation.
1563780	1567380	And this is what all algorithms, quantum algorithms, are based on.
1567380	1568780	So the hope is huge.
1568780	1575760	The hope for, you know, resource scarcity is really massive.
1575760	1585220	And it comes down to anything from optimization work, to quantum chemistry, to developing small molecule pharmaceuticals, and then all the way, all the way beyond that.
1585260	1591840	Maybe if I understood your second part of the question was, like, what is the impact of manufacturing these things?
1591840	1594600	Like, these things actually need to be made out of different materials.
1594860	1597100	It really depends on the modality.
1597460	1599360	Some things are really straightforward.
1599360	1601720	They're silicon-based.
1601720	1607060	There's, you know, no real super rare components to it.
1607060	1610940	Other ones are based on much more scarce things.
1611140	1621620	But I would say the impact that they will have is going to be so much greater than the resources that they're going to consume, compared to what classical computers are able to do today.
1622980	1625980	And some of them could be made with, like, literally nothing.
1625980	1628840	I mean, ions are, they're free.
1628840	1629420	They're everywhere.
1629420	1630200	You don't have to make them.
1630200	1631100	They're already there.
1631520	1632980	I don't know about ytterbium.
1633560	1635060	Ytterbium, you know, whatever.
1636520	1637300	There's some in here.
1637300	1638580	I promise you there's some in here.
1638580	1640020	I'm going to find it when we're done.
1640020	1640840	I'll show you.
1641260	1642340	It'll glow in my hands.
1643980	1648960	So, yeah, so some of it depends, like you said, on the modality, what they're made of.
1648960	1656100	And we're already using quantum computers in, like, simple optimization things for, like, how to wrap power, things like that.
1656100	1662420	So these are, like, hybrid problems we're trying to solve, using some annealing and some other steps, and tensorizing, whatever.
1662440	1666700	So we're very concerned with, like, using, applying this to power in general.
1666700	1668000	Because, yeah, we've got a huge problem.
1670020	1671800	One more question, then we vote.
1672620	1676940	In terms of academia, let me just give you a 20 seconds context.
1677320	1684120	ACM, IEEE, AAAI, Computer Science Curricula is the project that they're working for the next 10 years.
1684140	1684780	Curricula.
1684780	1695240	They're identified 18 knowledge areas, algorithms, operating systems, HCI, all the way to SEP, which is Society Ethics and Professionalism.
1695260	1696780	You know, we're in DEF CON.
1696780	1697740	We care about cyber.
1697740	1705440	But at the same time, you're talking about green technologies and other aspects that quantum will have a big impact for the next 10 years.
1705440	1715340	I was a little bit disappointed that the curriculum guidelines, they only have, like, less than two percent of learning outcomes and competencies in quantum.
1715340	1716620	However, they're there.
1716760	1722680	But, for example, cybersecurity is infused in the 18 knowledge areas.
1722680	1735820	If I will ask you, and this is a question, if I ask you, what would be the top three computing areas that you should focus curriculum, like, heavily curriculum, what would those be in your experience?
1735820	1743980	All right, what are the top three curriculum that you would focus on for computer science education overall?
1746160	1760780	I would say, it's pretty straightforward for me, it would be building better quantum systems, writing better quantum algorithms, and absolutely machine learning, too, because it intersects so much.
1760780	1761700	So, those are the three.
1762500	1764720	I'm going to say the same way, but different.
1764720	1767660	Linear algebra, linear algebra, and linear algebra.
1770460	1773360	Yeah, of course.
1773360	1775720	That's like saying you need the alphabet before you write something.
1778080	1781440	I tried so hard to, like, keep linear algebra to a minimum.
1785060	1786860	Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to vote.
1786860	1796680	So, what I'm going to do is I'm going to say the proposition again, and then we will ask you to raise your hands if you support the proposition based on the arguments that you just heard.
1796900	1803600	We are in the era of noisy intermediate scale intermediate scale quantum NISQ.
1803600	1805260	This is the NISQ era.
1805440	1807620	NISQ and the future of quantum advantage.
1807620	1816840	This village believes the current state of NISQ is already enabling quantum advantage for those who know how to use these technologies.
1816840	1819140	If you support that, raise your hand
1822230	1822830	.
1823770	1825570	I don't think it's already.
1827830	1829470	That's the version I have.
1830570	1832710	There's a lot of undecided.
1832870	1840050	Yeah, if I could rephrase it, I would say that we don't need fault-tolerant for advantage, but I'm not saying we have an advantage now, for sure.
1841950	1843790	Mark, how did that vote go, do you think?
1844130	1845470	Oh, definitely against.
1847110	1850590	Thank you for the three people who were reliably sort of going, yeah, sure.
1852730	1854630	Well, we have captured this.
1854630	1859650	I know there were a lot of other questions, so please, again, join our Discord server and keep asking your questions there.
1859650	1862130	And with that, I want to say thanks to our debaters.
1865410	1866670	Thanks, Mark.
1866810	1867630	Thank you.