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5060	7140	Hello ladies and gentlemen.
8280	14820	Welcome to the second annual Quantum Village Oxford Union style debate.
14820	17500	We have two topics we'll be debating today.
17500	20580	We'll do one topic, then we will switch.
20580	29540	We'll have an exciting discussion with Jen Silvata running an Ask Me Anything session on quantum.
29540	31300	And then we'll hit our second topic.
31300	36840	Both topics will be debated in a similar way, Oxford Union style rules.
36840	38740	We've chosen a topic.
38740	42020	We then find people to argue for and against the topic.
42020	43960	They will make their cases.
44040	46500	They will then have rebuttal time.
46500	50440	You, as participants, will hang on every word.
50440	52720	You will roll your eyes if it sounds crazy.
52720	54380	You can moan and groan.
54380	56700	If they make a joke, it better be funny.
56700	58540	If it's funny, you can laugh.
58540	63940	And then there's question and answer period after the rebuttals between each other.
63940	67840	And then we vote and we decide who wins the debate.
67840	71340	And that becomes the position of the Quantum Village.
71340	73760	So let me get to the topic.
74180	82380	And first of all, I want to say that the topics we coordinated amongst the village, the first topic is on privacy.
82380	84660	And I want to read it directly.
84660	86560	It goes like this.
86560	97000	The Quantum Village believes individual citizen privacy will be enhanced with the fielding of new quantum technologies.
97600	101140	David Joseph will argue for the proposition.
101140	103300	Troy Mills will argue against.
103300	109960	Let me give you a brief introduction to both of them so you know why they are the perfect people to argue these.
109960	114860	David Joseph has been a member of the Quantum Village since the very first one last year.
114860	116600	He's been a member of the community.
116600	121900	He's been engaged in quantum as a researcher and at Sandbox AQ as a practitioner.
121900	125120	He really knows these technologies and how to debate.
125120	129540	Troy Mills is also a... he's a CEO of a company.
129540	131500	He's also a member of the Quantum Village.
131500	135420	Was here last year, engaged in all of the sessions.
135420	141820	Knows these technologies, knows their business impact, their impact on the military and government.
141820	147080	He's also extremely concerned with privacy and security and knows these issues well.
147080	152020	So again, David will argue for the proposition and Troy will argue against.
152020	159540	I'll be the timekeeper as the chairman and make sure they don't go beyond seven minutes each in their introductory session.
159540	161980	And then they will get into rebuttals.
161980	163160	So, David?
172010	177020	Ladies and gentlemen, privacy is extraordinarily important to me.
177020	179640	That's why I wore camo today.
180380	196400	Now, first of all, I'd like to expand the definition to include not just quantum technologies, but the technologies that exist because of quantum computing technologies, quantum technologies, the security and privacy technologies that come along with it.
197240	206480	Now, my argument rests on two main points and the first I'm going to talk about is less interesting, but we'll save best till last.
208660	213820	Quantum technologies bring with it some incredible novel capabilities.
214200	217840	First of all, we can talk about quantum key distribution.
217840	219620	It's information-theoretic.
219620	225560	What cryptographer can offer information-theoretic security bar a one-time pad?
226180	230040	Ask me about that again after the debate and we'll have a different conversation.
230040	235020	But quantum computing, quantum key distribution, is an incredible technology.
235020	243120	It's completely brand new and there is no analogue in classical-based cryptography.
243440	252740	It's very interesting and there's a whole array of different technologies that go along with it.
253040	259460	Not too long ago, I reviewed a paper on quantum-enhanced multiparty computation.
259600	275800	Now, I can't actually remember the specifics of what went along in this paper, but multiparty computation, as many of you will know, is a privacy-preserving technology and this paper employed quantum concepts to improve that.
275860	277520	It's incredible.
277520	286380	Of course it will improve the privacy posture of the individual citizen and there's a whole other array.
286380	290540	You can use quantum computers to certify qubits.
290540	294060	There is no analogue that we have in classical computation.
295220	299080	These are technologies that are already here.
299380	301120	They're on the horizon.
301180	306180	The papers, the academia, it exists to support these ideas.
307500	320060	But really, why I believe that quantum technologies will fundamentally revolutionise the privacy posture of the individual citizen is because of something...
320780	321860	I don't know.
321860	334020	It's a little bit bold, so I would invite the audience to shut their eyes and join me in this vision of a new quantum, more private world.
334720	342020	So there are two core facets to quantum technologies and in particular, quantum states and qubits.
342600	346520	And the first is no cloning theory.
346520	357100	So it's the idea that if you have some kind of quantum state, it is not possible for you to create an exact replica of it.
357100	359880	That's the very condensed version of it.
360060	363560	Now, what are the implications for that, you ask?
364480	369820	So all of your sensitive data will one day just be a quantum state.
370260	372200	Believe me, it's going to happen.
372340	375060	It might not happen in five years' time, but it'll happen.
375880	382060	Identity theft will be an archaic concept from history books.
382120	384820	Children will ask their parents, what is identity theft?
384820	391360	And they will talk about it like bloodletting, as we do now from medieval times.
391460	392660	And why is that?
392660	398260	Because your identity documents, your data, it will be a quantum state.
398420	400300	And you can't clone it, right?
400300	401980	It's as simple as that.
402800	412100	I haven't yet seen any papers in PRX Quantum supporting this, but this is an exercise.
412100	413700	We're sharing a vision here.
414300	416080	Money theft, right?
416080	418140	If anything, just as important.
418140	428160	So important that Peter Shaw, one of our talismans of quantum technologies, he now spends his days working on quantum money.
429820	437760	Theft of your money, of your assets that you've worked hard to earn over the course of your life, it will be a thing of the past.
437760	438400	Why?
438440	441340	Because it will be, of course, a quantum state.
442020	446240	As soon as anybody goes to clone your money, no can do, right?
446240	455260	No cloning your money, excellent extra privacy, and Peter Shaw spends his time on it, so it must be good.
455300	457480	And the second part is state collapse.
457480	462780	When you try and observe a state, it collapses, right?
463080	466640	This is also pretty fundamental quantum mechanics.
467600	469520	And what are the implications?
469560	480260	As soon as a nosy ISP or a prying parent decides that they want to look at your search history, it's a quantum state.
480260	481220	It collapses.
481220	482660	They can't see anything.
483020	487140	So, while some of this may seem far-fetched, it is in fact not.
487140	503860	This is a vision of the future, and all I'm basing these completely grounded assertions around are the basic fundamental concepts that we know quantum technologies and quantum mechanics can provide to us.
504420	509080	And that, ladies and gentlemen, is my argument.
509080	510180	Perfectly timed.
510180	511040	Thank you.
511040	511800	Thank you.
516120	519640	Troy, less than seven minutes to argue again.
519640	520260	Okay.
520260	520920	Great.
520920	521940	Let's go.
522840	526040	First and foremost, excellent points that you brought up.
526040	532160	No doubt, quantum holds a lot of potential, and it will change the world, no doubt.
532220	541320	The question, though, is this new quantum technology going to be used to enhance privacy?
541780	544520	I would say it depends.
544580	552360	And I'll bring up a few reasons why I'm kind of leaning towards maybe not, potentially.
552360	555120	I'm going to start by kind of highlighting a few good points.
555200	556800	Human nature.
557560	571720	If we think about planes, trains, and automobiles, and we look at when the first plane was built, the Wright Flyer, the Wright Flyer became a fighter jet.
572100	577120	The first Model T eventually became a tank.
577120	588680	So it's human nature for us to take these beautiful technologies that can do wonderful things for humanity and twist it and use that technology in bad ways.
588680	590960	We're already seeing that now with quantum.
590960	593620	We're talking about quantum computers.
593840	603220	You had mentioned, again, the potential when it comes to leveraging quantum to enhance what we're trying to do here in computer technology.
603220	620060	But when you think about how we're leveraging quantum computing and it could potentially jeopardize our abilities to do asymmetric cryptography, specifically RSA, and the Diffie-Hellman key exchange.
620740	629900	Even right now, we still see that humanity is trying to use that technology in very bad ways.
629940	632680	So I don't see that slowing down.
632680	636380	The only thing that could change it is where we're investing.
636380	649060	If we invest in making sure that privacy is at the forefront of our priorities when it comes to developing quantum technologies, then, of course, we can really shape the future.
649560	651440	But let's look at what's happening there.
651440	653340	Let's pull that thread just a little bit.
654420	664360	China, specifically the PRC, People's Republic of China, they made quantum a national imperative, which means they're investing in it.
664360	674320	If they're investing in technology, they have what we call a first mover advantage when it comes to shaping the direction of the technology.
674320	681000	And again, going back to the point, will this future quantum technology enhance privacy?
681000	683140	Well, let's look at where they're making the investment.
683140	684520	Let's follow the money.
685560	688960	Privacy really isn't a priority for the PRC.
689060	700640	So if they're making the investments and they're literally shaping the foundations for this technology, they're going to shape the direction and the priority of privacy when it comes to that.
700760	705120	So again, I'll start with maybe a call to action.
705120	720140	We have an opportunity to change that future, but based on the trajectory we're on now, I would argue that we're kind of going down the path where again, privacy, we may lose the bubble on that potentially, right, if we don't change some fundamental things.
720140	722020	I'll use another example.
723260	724480	Tesla, right?
724480	725660	I own a Tesla .
725740	727560	I know you own one as well.
727900	740960	Amazing pieces of machinery, but again, that first mover advantage, I mean, it was really a David and Goliath type situation where you had Tesla as a small company disrupting the entire auto industry, right?
741200	747280	And with the recent announcements in terms of the charging standard, Tesla is leading charge, right?
747280	748380	So how did that happen?
748380	753480	How did they change the entire industry, right, and become the standard?
753480	755520	Well, first mover advantage.
756120	757940	Investing in the technology.
757980	761040	I would argue that China's doing that today, right?
761040	763320	So we really need to think about that.
766370	767410	Let's see.
770550	773390	I have a few other examples specific to the technology.
773390	776010	I'll kind of just leave it for those two for now.
776030	781710	Open it up for questions and, you know, during a debate session, we'll kind of get into that a little bit more.
781710	782470	Great , thanks.
782470	785670	So we heard an argument for, we heard an argument against.
785890	788070	So we heard the argument for, we heard the argument against.
788070	789390	Now it's time for rebuttals.
789390	791670	They will have an opportunity to rebut each other .
791670	794270	Then we will get into audience Q&A.
794270	796350	So first rebuttal, David.
798610	799170	So...
799170	803110	We have ten minutes total, but that's our budget, so take five.
803110	809010	Okay, so there are a few different interpretations of quantum mechanics.
809270	811790	There's the Copenhagen interpretation.
812210	815030	You know, there is no underlying reality.
815050	818190	The Oppenheimer interpretation is a different one.
818810	823450	What my learned friend just articulated can only be described as a Barbie interpretation.
827310	839670	Now, essentially, you don't need electromagnetic side channels to intercept the same old arguments that my learned friend has just proposed.
839670	850830	Quantum computers will eventually be deployed to break our public key crypto systems and, you know, bad guys with large quantum computers are going to steal all of our secrets.
851510	857250	The progress of quantum computing technologies has been glacial.
857250	862590	I believe that they will bear great fruit in the future.
863090	870050	But the point that was made was that every technology brings with it advantages and threats.
870110	880450	But when it comes to threats, the greatest threats always come from new technologies which appear on the horizon and gain enormous traction overnight.
880450	881370	LLMs.
881370	885930	Everybody was surprised by just how well they started performing, how quickly.
885930	886870	Smartphones.
886870	888270	Social networks.
888270	907630	The pace that quantum computing is moving at since Peter Shaw published his algorithm in 1994 is like rolling a trebuchet at the siege of Troy towards the gates just in time for the Greek army to deploy their latest Type 40X destroyer.
907630	911330	This is the pace that we are talking about.
911450	914110	And the countermeasures, they're here.
914110	917110	NIST are standardizing PQC.
917290	919230	Standards are already out.
919230	923790	Google is about to release it as default inside its Chrome browser.
923790	936810	So while new technologies do bring with them advantages and disadvantages, benefits and threats, the threats have been mitigated due to the lamentably slow pace of engineers.
936810	938830	I'm a theory test student myself.
939350	944150	So I would like to invite the engineers to hurry up the pace of progress.
944150	946470	We could all benefit from that.
947350	962010	And then the other key point was that I do agree with my learned friend that there are certain troubling attitudes from certain nation states towards individual citizen privacy .
962010	973050	But I would contend, ladies and gentlemen, that that is outside of the scope of the question of, will quantum technologies bring better privacy?
973050	979230	That is a question of, do nation states intend to use that?
980070	985590	Do nation states intend to bring better privacy to their citizens?
985590	988090	Or do they intend to subvert it?
988090	996530	And so, while I agree that there are troubling things going on, that is outside of the scope of what we've been discussing.
996650	998270	Thank you.
998270	1000410	Troy, your rebuttal.
1000410	1001350	Sure.
1001650	1008230	My rebuttal is that is 100% in the scope of the conversation.
1008530	1012930	If you think about any technology, I'll keep it...
1012930	1015290	I won't even focus on technology.
1015290	1016610	Imagine a brick.
1017190	1021590	That brick itself is neither inherently good or evil.
1021590	1023370	It's really the hands that wield it.
1023370	1031410	You can use that brick as the cornerstone for a great structure, or you can use that brick to literally bash someone's head and do something about it.
1032030	1052990	So, the argument that we should just ignore the position, the political, social, economic position of these nation state actors that we know are investing heavily in this technology, I think is irresponsible, quite frankly.
1052990	1054370	We have to address that.
1054370	1055310	It's paramount.
1055310	1056310	It's important.
1056310	1059090	We know that you only get out what you put in.
1059090	1068990	If we're not investing in the technology, those that are investing in the technology are going to shape how the technology is being used.
1068990	1071850	That has always been the case throughout human history.
1071850	1076810	All I'm asking is that we, as a community, shape the future.
1077090	1094050	We need to not ignore that reality and recognize that, again, how quantum technology shapes privacy is directly dependent upon how we shape the technology and how it's used responsibly.
1094050	1095130	Thank you.
1096730	1097650	Thanks.
1097650	1105910	We're a little bit ahead of time, so I'm going to offer both of them an opportunity to rebut the rebuttals for a few minutes before we get into your questions and answers.
1105910	1107390	Other comments?
1109330	1120390	I would just like to use my remaining time not to rebut the rebuttal, because I like to think about progress and not bringing others down.
1120550	1129710	Again, I would like to invite the audience to think once more about the beautiful world, the beautiful vision that I painted for you.
1129710	1133130	No more search history being pried upon.
1133350	1142070	No more money being sifted from your accounts by underhand thieves because they can't clone your money.
1142130	1143910	No more identity theft.
1143910	1145350	No more fraud.
1145350	1154590	Think about what could be and don't think about what nation states or adversaries would like to do to bring us down.
1157580	1158460	Troy?
1159200	1160460	I'll be short.
1160520	1161760	Think about both.
1162580	1163480	Thank you.
1168800	1177100	Ladies and gentlemen, before you can vote, you need to have an opportunity to ask questions and make comments, so please, this is your opportunity to engage.
1177160	1181300	I would ask you to speak up and then I'll repeat it since we're recording here for everybody.
1181300	1182260	Go ahead, please.
1183040	1185040	This is just a logistical question.
1185040	1189280	How can you make unstealable money that can also be spent?
1191180	1194980	How can you make unstealable money that can also be spent?
1195160	1196280	Unstealable.
1196800	1199520	Unstealable money that can also be spent.
1200160	1201800	Can you address this?
1203420	1207940	That's a fine question from the gentleman in the dog seat.
1209100	1214020	That is a very good question and I do not claim to know the answer.
1214020	1218540	I would say before it can be spent, though, we must stop it from decohering.
1218540	1224520	At the moment, quantum money would last only a matter of microseconds.
1226480	1229040	Again , I'm coming back to the engineers.
1229040	1230120	Please hurry up.
1230120	1241000	Once we can get quantum states to remain in a coherent fashion for long enough for you to be able to spend your hard-earned quantum money, then we can think about how to spend it.
1241000	1242680	But yes, good concern.
1244860	1246100	Excellent question.
1246100	1258640	And I'm glad you asked that question because one thing from a technology perspective that I didn't mention earlier and I promised myself I wasn't going down into technical weeds, but when you think about... personally , I agree.
1258640	1263960	I think there's a universe of possibilities when it comes to technology .
1263960	1268940	But at the end of the day, quantum exists and operates at quantum scales.
1268940	1272140	Reality and life happens at human scale.
1272280	1274940	I think that's the point you're getting at.
1275520	1277360	Even if you were to...
1277360	1283900	I don't know... I'm going to use spooky interaction at a distance , create a perfect...
1283900	1291060	I'll call it a quantum black box where I can do point-to -point communication from here to Mars instantly.
1291160	1299540	There are a lot of technical challenges to get there, but at the end of the day, before and after I make that communication, I'm exposed.
1299660	1302660	Because I have to operate in the real world.
1302660	1304320	Ultimately, I need to spend that money.
1304320	1305500	I think there's your point.
1305680	1306940	Agree 100%.
1306940	1315740	And again, I challenge everyone in the room, and I definitely agree that our technologists that are working on these hard problems, we need to consider that.
1315740	1317340	To me, it's not an oral function.
1317460	1322920	Don't think about just the grand vision and the future of how bright it could be.
1322940	1336300	Also, think about the challenges and how that technology and this vision of a grand future can be disrupted and brought to its knees because we haven't considered those hard considerations up front.
1336300	1337640	I appreciate your question.
1337640	1338560	I think you're spot on.
1338560	1339320	I'm glad you asked.
1339320	1340540	Thank you.
1341320	1343060	Other questions back here, please.
1343060	1344960	I've got a quick question for you.
1344960	1362900	With quantum computing in the world that we live in today, the nature of warfare online between systems, countries, corporations, the execution of trades on the stock market, there are a number of different ways that quantum computing will change the world we live in while we still live in the world.
1362940	1369400	So how do we defend against this kind of stuff that can happen in such a short period of time that the human mind cannot comprehend it?
1369400	1369840	Thank you.
1369840	1379100	A very good question, and to repeat it for the recording, it's about the world is changing dramatically because of quantum technologies, and we have to defend it, is the gist of that, right?
1379100	1382120	How do we do that?
1382720	1415360	So, again, I'll revisit an earlier point that I made, which is that one of the unique advantages with quantum computing and quantum technologies is that we know a lot of the laws that govern quantum mechanics were able to prepare theoretically before the realities manifest themselves in a way that we have not been able to do for many of the other technologies that have really disrupted our world in very dangerous ways.
1415360	1439460	So, the fact that we have academic cryptographers and quantum cybersecurity experts already, even though the reality of these technologies is still some way off, it puts us in a stronger position than we would otherwise be with many other dangerous technologies.
1440820	1442680	Troy, comments on this?
1442720	1443820	No, actually I don't.
1443820	1444180	Alright, good.
1444180	1446580	We want to keep asking questions and one right here, please.
1446860	1447980	Question for David.
1447980	1448920	Do you have any...
1450000	1455280	you keep talking about how not to consider state actors.
1455520	1464540	Do you realistically think that the technology can evolve independent of outside government regulation?
1465420	1473420	Alright, David, and the question is about technology evolving outside government regulation, right, from nation states.
1473740	1482160	Okay, so, I don't want to lower the tone of this esteemed debate, but I will mention cryptocurrencies for just a second.
1484200	1486580	That essentially is the casing point, right?
1486940	1498900	People believe in a libertarian future where we can create a money system that is outside of government, and at the moment we're going through this process of, well, can it be meaningful outside of centralization?
1499020	1516540	And I think what we're converging on is that there needs to be, for it to function at a large scale and bring the benefits it promises, there does need to be some level of complicity from nation states and from regulatory bodies.
1517040	1528180	So, that seems to me like a natural analogue to the question you're asking, but it is a separate question, so maybe it can, maybe it can't, but we'll learn a lot from how cryptocurrencies play out.
1531160	1532080	Comment?
1532080	1533180	I agree.
1533180	1534640	Solid point.
1534680	1541200	The short answer is, these technologies will be influenced by nation states and regulation.
1541200	1542820	There's no two ways around it.
1542820	1553560	I mean, I definitely can recognize that things do move slow, right, on the government side, but the influence will be there.
1553560	1556660	I don't see how we can avoid that.
1556660	1557860	So, excellent question.
1557860	1559080	Thank you.
1559520	1560100	Thanks.
1560100	1564080	About ten more minutes for questions before we do our vote.
1564080	1573400	The vote on this village believes that with the building of quantum technologies, privacy will be enhanced for citizens.
1573740	1574360	Question?
1574360	1575420	John, in the back.
1575420	1577260	Yeah, just a quick question
1584870	1585270	.
1585750	1596390	The , um, I understand the PRC, I understand the risk of the remote PRC and other companies.
1596510	1601370	I also realize that the EV1 is not a problem.
1601530	1611530	So, how do we, I mean, what is our plan, what do we do, what are we going to do to move forward against the emerging technologies that are coming from other parts of the world?
1611750	1614270	Alright, Troy, and go ahead and repeat the question before you answer.
1614270	1615950	I'll let you repeat it.
1617610	1619210	Maybe help me clarify a little bit.
1619210	1622710	You're asking about how do we make sure that we get the first mover advantage?
1622710	1628650	How do we take advantage of people who have first mover that we can build off of their successes and failures?
1628650	1635530	Alright, how do we continue to take advantage of those who do have first mover advantage to just keep building on the success?
1636830	1641750	Yeah, um, yeah, when it comes to quantum, it is going to be a paradigm shift.
1641750	1642630	It really is.
1642630	1647090	And whoever gets there first literally is going to control the world.
1647270	1654010	So that first mover advantage, at least from my optic and opinion, is absolutely key.
1654010	1668830	I think it's one of those things where if we don't take advantage of that first mover advantage, I think we're going to have a difficult time keeping up and, you know, trying to play catch up, quite frankly.
1668830	1674490	But I think as a community, we need to continue to ask those hard questions.
1674490	1675870	We can't ignore them.
1676070	1680230	Because it is important that we recognize the challenges.
1680230	1689270	And again, trust me, I don't want to be the Debbie Downer when it comes to this topic, but there are some hard questions that we can't ignore.
1689610	1690550	Thank you.
1690950	1691970	Comments?
1693230	1708850	Yeah, when it comes to first mover advantage, I think Troy touched on this a little bit earlier, but the amount that we invest in these quantum technologies is a really crucial geopolitical point.
1709250	1714410	At the moment, the PRC are planning enormous amounts of money.
1714410	1721030	They're way ahead of the West in terms of how much, you know, the dollar value that they're committing to this.
1721070	1739330	The West, you might say, has a slight first mover advantage, but people have said that in a straight line race with a short disadvantage, they're very well positioned to win those types of races.
1739330	1748530	That's if you see it through a vying for influence, and there can only be one winner perspective.
1749690	1757510	But the way that we capitalize on these first mover advantages is we need to build an entire ecosystem.
1757510	1770050	We're trying to bootstrap from scratch everything that we've done with classical computation over the course of practically a century now, and we're trying to catch up with all of that.
1770050	1779650	We already have quantum software working on operating systems while the actual hardware is still in the 1940s.
1779650	1785710	If we ask Alan Turing what he feels about operating systems, I think you'd have got some bewildered stares.
1786910	1793550	But forums like this are a great platform to get this kind of stuff going.
1794390	1802810	Quantum Village started last year , and I'm astounded by just how many more people and more participants there are this year .
1803250	1809330	The direction of travel, I think, is pretty promising, but we've got to put our money where our mouth is.
1811030	1817030	About five more minutes for your questions or comments or arguments for or against this proposition.
1818250	1830430	Academically speaking, how do you teach this in an environment from K-12 community colleges or two-year technical colleges, universities?
1830470	1831610	Where and how?
1831610	1834470	The question is, how do you teach these things?
1834470	1843830	Because there's conversation about the ethics part that hasn't really touched that aspect, the social aspect, the professionalism aspect.
1843830	1847910	The question is, how do you teach that to the kids all the way?
1847910	1849310	Because I agree with you.
1849310	1852170	You're shaping this new generation.
1852390	1853230	How do you shape it?
1853230	1854570	This is a good question.
1854570	1857750	It is, how do we shape the education for all of us?
1857750	1863650	Kids K-12, graduate school, but also business executive leaders, other decision makers.
1863650	1867490	How do we teach and learn about this new world of quantum effects?
1867490	1869950	I'd love for both of you guys to comment on this.
1870770	1872330	Excellent question.
1872770	1877810	And honestly, I have a few people here that travel with me to get here.
1877810	1880170	And that's been the fundamental question all week.
1880170	1889650	The one reason why I absolutely love DEF CON is if you walk the floor and you look in the different villages, you'll see young people there.
1889710	1892290	And they're hands-on with the technology.
1892290	1895090	They're understanding fundamentally how it works.
1895090	1901190	And along with that, they are gaining an appreciation of the responsibility that comes along with that power.
1901350	1908650	Technology is extremely powerful, but we have to make sure that the ethics is taught along with that early on.
1908650	1909350	Definitely agree.
1909350	1911150	That's a huge challenge.
1911790	1916970	And personally at home, I do work very closely with the youth.
1916970	1924570	And there are people like Bob and I, I know we didn't mention this earlier, but we're actually on the pit crew together.
1924570	1927390	And our kids actually went to the same school.
1927390	1939330	So I have taken a lot of time to mentor those kids and make sure that they understand the technology, the ethics that go along with it, being comfortable with being uncomfortable.
1939330	1949310	Meaning, if there is a technology that you don't quite understand, it's okay to be uncomfortable not knowing that, but be willing to learn and stretch yourself.
1949310	1953210	That's one thing I absolutely love about the Quantum Village specifically.
1953330	1956450	The volume of people in the room has grown exponentially.
1956690	1958270	And I think that's a beautiful thing.
1958270	1965570	I remember when Bob and I first talked, started talking, he introduced me to a number of people in the booth.
1965650	1967610	I said, I'm not a quantum expert.
1967610	1970210	I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.
1970270	1972410	But they invited me right in.
1972410	1974670	And we had a dialogue.
1974930	1979790	Look, now I'm sitting up here on a debate with brilliant people.
1979790	1981610	And it's an amazing thing.
1982190	1986230	I think the way that we get there, to answer your question, is through engagement.
1986230	1987670	We have to engage with the youth.
1987670	1990510	We have to get them comfortable with the technology.
1990510	1992230	We have to continue the dialogue.
1992610	1994850	We don't need to ignore the hard problems.
1994850	1996370	We need to put those center stage.
1996370	1997630	Hey, this is a big issue.
1997630	1998650	Let's not address it.
1998650	1999570	Let's not ignore it.
1999570	2000530	Let's address it.
2000530	2002730	And work together to get to a smarter state.
2002870	2003570	Thank you.
2005390	2011590	Yeah, the K-12 question is a really interesting one.
2011790	2019730	I think quantum computing is , sorry, quantum technologies, they're naturally a very sexy topic, right?
2020450	2022690	Yes, it's very difficult academically.
2023990	2028630	Now, you know, I used to hate linear algebra when I was just like a late teen .
2028630	2034370	But then, as soon as I started using it for quantum computing and seeing what you could do there, I started really enjoying it.
2034370	2051370	But, you know, winding way further back than that, I would like to think that most sort of 5 to 12 year olds could also have closed their eyes and enjoyed my vision of a more private future based on no cloning theory, right?
2051370	2053830	You can explain that to children.
2053830	2057290	You can explain the concept of state class.
2057290	2058690	Maybe that's a little bit more difficult.
2058690	2060590	But I think that you can do that.
2060650	2074150	And so, broaching these conversations earlier and getting people enthusiastic about what they can do with these mathematical tools as they approach teens, late teens, undergrad, I think that's the way to do it.
2074150	2078150	Let's start having conversations at the level that we can have them with children.
2079730	2082670	Just a couple more minutes for questions, comments, pushback.
2082670	2083930	Way back here, please.
2088350	2089670	Troy, pick up.
2089670	2092650	Looking at the debate, assuming your position is that
2098680	2118680	given the acknowledgments of other nations that are putting in work and effort working on these quantum technologies and the fact that the only way to counter that is by further developing quantum technologies on this end like PQC and QKD, how do you reconcile your perspective with what we need to do?
2119660	2129200	The question is about asking Troy to reconcile his perspectives on the dynamic between offense and defense when it comes to these quantum technologies.
2130560	2132740	Quick, simple answer.
2132740	2136340	I got stuck with taking the opposition point.
2136340	2138960	It was chosen on my behalf.
2139260	2142580	Actually, it's kind of funny.
2142580	2145960	I view this as an interesting challenge because Bob knows me.
2145960	2147560	I'm an eternal optimist.
2147960	2150060	I'm forward-leaning.
2150060	2152900	I believe that our future is bright.
2153200	2155560	It is important for us to have hope.
2156340	2168800	So I took this as a challenge to highlight some fundamental challenges that we shouldn't ignore and basically put forth a call to action to the group.
2168800	2169580	Yeah, I agree.
2169580	2174600	That beautiful story that you laid out is possible in closing our eyes and thinking about where we can be.
2174600	2175360	That's amazing.
2175360	2177280	I definitely think we should do that.
2177280	2180840	But the only way we're going to get there is by putting in the work.
2180980	2182420	It's not going to be easy.
2182420	2191540	There are people that have, and other nation-state actors and the like, that have an alternative or an alternate agenda.
2191920	2193660	We can't ignore that.
2193660	2195880	And we have to follow the investments.
2195880	2198980	Again, K through 12 and beyond.
2199420	2206860	If we're not laying that foundation, we may find ourselves closing our eyes and unfortunately seeing a nightmare.
2208180	2209620	Does that make sense?
2209620	2210020	Yes.
2210020	2210480	Awesome.
2210480	2211200	Thank you.
2211460	2213660	We just have time for one more question.
2213660	2220600	I wanted to tell you, we need to discuss this in much greater detail, so maybe we'll do that at the happy hour tonight.
2220960	2228700	But I want to take one more question, and I also wanted to say that after this, before the next debate, Jen Sovato will be up here, and she's not going to ask me anything.
2228700	2231540	So you can ask her all of your hard questions on any subject.
2232460	2233920	Over here, please.
2234880	2246660	Because we can see that current technology has been implemented in a way to violate our privacy, why do you believe that quantum technologies will not be implemented in a way that will violate our technology?
2246840	2252220	Or what can be done to further ensure that they won't?
2252220	2253400	This is a good, hard question.
2253400	2265520	It may be hard for me to completely summarize this, but he's asking, okay, given the state of reality and the fact that all technology today is being used to violate privacy, why wouldn't quantum technologies be used to violate this?
2265520	2266600	Why or why not?
2268560	2275420	I think that's a very good question, and I think, yeah, it's demonstrably true.
2275420	2286580	So if you take, for example, quantum key distribution, one of the core facets of it is the idea of trusted nodes, right?
2286620	2292420	And if you think hard about that, the concept of lawful intercept is built into that, right?
2292420	2295900	It's built into that model of trusted nodes, right?
2295960	2314880	And then you can take this thought exercise further and draw your own conclusions from that, but I do believe that any technology will be used to the ends of, you know, to achieve the ends of anybody that has objectives and has that technology.
2314880	2329660	My contention is that because we know the capabilities of this technology long, long, long before the arrival of it in reality, we have more time to prepare countermeasures for it.
2329660	2334360	So the intentions, I think, will be exactly the same as with every other technology that has appeared.
2334800	2337940	I think that we're in a slightly better situation.
2340360	2341440	Okay.
2342020	2343760	I agree with your question.
2343920	2345920	I'm glad you asked it.
2346080	2351620	And I have kind of a second question, maybe to my counterpart here.
2352200	2358440	So you said several times that quantum is kind of being...
2358440	2361100	we're slow to getting to that practical end state, right?
2361100	2362180	It's taking time.
2362180	2374840	And you inferred that, you know, by virtue of it taking longer, that gave us more time to be more responsible with the deployment of that technology.
2374840	2385900	So in your opinion, if you were to put a percentage on it, what percent preparedness do you think we're at in terms of deploying quantum technologies responsibly?
2388140	2390940	Quantum technologies responsibly or the countermeasures?
2390940	2392400	The countermeasures.
2392400	2393980	The countermeasures.
2393980	2396200	Very interesting question there.
2396200	2397280	It's a loaded question.
2397980	2402840	So, there is definitely an impetus to move faster and faster.
2402840	2409180	And over the last 18 to 24 months, we have really seen a massive uptick in the awareness and the amount that people care about this.
2409180	2415320	So post-quantum cryptography has been around for, you know, over a decade now, that acronym.
2416280	2429160	But, you know, in the last year, we saw the US government release an executive order compelling all federal departments, and, you know, Jen really is the person to talk about this later.
2429160	2430880	You can really dig into it then.
2431660	2434340	But, you know, this is now becoming a federal problem.
2434340	2438680	You need to understand what your roadmap is to deploy these countermeasures.
2439380	2453900	NIST is in the final stages of standardizing post-quantum cryptography after a long six-year process of cryptanalysis, whittling down 82 submissions down to a final four that are being standardized.
2453900	2459760	And we're reaching the point where this is being rolled out.
2460040	2476900	In terms of the actual challenge of how do we take this standardized cryptography and get it into every operating system, computer, endpoint, device, you know, the World Economic Forum estimates that there are about 20 billion devices worldwide that will need upgrading.
2477020	2478540	That's an enormous problem.
2478540	2485200	It's very difficult, and it's one which, fortunately, there are companies devoted to trying to tackle that problem.
2487280	2488540	I'm optimistic.
2490980	2494080	I was just going to say we have a lot more work to do.
2494080	2495480	It was really my point in asking.
2495960	2496800	Absolutely.
2497720	2499460	Ladies and gentlemen, it's time to vote.
2499600	2507440	I'm going to restate the proposal, the proposition, and then I'm going to ask if you support it, and you'll raise your hand.
2507440	2511520	Mark's going to help me really capture who wins this argument.
2511560	2513680	Again, here's the topic.
2513680	2522100	The Quantum Village believes individual citizen privacy will be enhanced with the fielding of new quantum technologies.
2522100	2524000	If you believe that, raise your hand.
2528130	2530010	Do I need to ask the opposite?
2530490	2533430	If you do not believe it, raise your hand.
2535670	2536990	Do we have a winner?
2537330	2541770	It looks like unfortunately, well, Troy, you won.
2542430	2544850	You carried the argument.
2544850	2556530	But I wanted to say there were so many questions here we didn't get to, maybe what we should do is everybody here jump on the Discord server and continue the discussion there and we'll keep moving this topic forward.
2556530	2558630	And with that, thanks Mark.
2558630	2559730	Thanks Troy.
2559730	2560770	Thanks guys.
2560770	2561610	Thanks guys.