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    "text": " All right, so we are ready with our next speaker, Jeff Foley, who's going to be speaking about unlocking the power of OWASP AMAS, introducing the open asset management model tool for comprehensive attract surface mapping. About him, he's a VP for research at Xerofox, founder and leader of the famous OWASP AMAS flagship project. He's also been a speaker at Recon Village previously. So let's give him a round of applause. All right, can everyone hear me? Great. All right, yeah, real quick. How many people here have already used AMAS before? I'm just curious. All right, look at that. Look at all those hands. I love it. All right, so we've got some great things to share with you, though, this year. But getting started, how many people just feel like they want to take more control over the Recon process, right? I personally have been seeing so many of these scripts that are showing the sequential process of seed a tool, take the output data, clean it up, put it into a text file, do it, you know, take that, seed another tool. It's like, it's a mess, right? You're probably losing a lot of the data. It doesn't seem very organized or well-managed, and I just feel like, hasn't Recon grown up, right? Like, aren't we more mature than this? I feel like we definitely have gotten to a point where we deserve more control, more management, more organization around what we're doing. Does anyone disagree with me? Or how many people would love to see this happen? All right, we good? Good, good, good. All right, so that's what I want to talk about today. But real quick, I guess I'm... she already did such a great job introducing me, so I guess I don't need to say too much about myself. But yes, I'm the project leader for Wasp Amass. I'm also on the project committee. Wonderful organization that is here for you. We are trying to empower more people everywhere when it comes to security. I've been doing this kind of work for a very long time. I learned a lot of it on this bottom bullet, where you can see I did offensive cyber warfare research and development, where I kind of learned the tricks of the trade. I took some of these, I'll say, attempts to fill the gap of understanding your attack surface to the energy industry, to the financial industry, where they desperately seem to need visibility on their attack surface. I've also brought this to so many other clients privately, which you would perhaps think would have this under control or, you know, have mature programs that would have better visibility on this, but the answer is not a single one I've ever worked with said, oh good, we expected exactly that, you can leave. It was hardly the case. Not even the ones I kind of hoped would say that. I am at ZeroFox now. Part of the reason for that is ZeroFox has so many clients that, you know, gives me incredible visibility on what's going on out there. The challenges they face with external cyber security are right in line with what I've been bringing to you for years now. And it just makes it so that I feel like I can bring even greater value to this community by working there. So I love working there. If you want to reach me to talk to me about anything related to reconnaissance, use these socials, reach out any time, feel free to engage. All right, so I guess I don't really need this slide, or at least not too much, since most people here seem quite aware of what this is, but Amass is a flagship project and it's about in-depth attack surface mapping and asset discovery. It's about understanding what you have out there. What do you have exposed on the internet as part of the contested environment that we all deal with, right, by being part of the internet, or on the internet, forgive me. It was a tool. I hope you'll know by the time this talk is done, it's not really just a tool anymore. It's more like a framework. And we're really more focused these days on attack surface intelligence collection and making the data easy for you to work with. That's my goal that I'm gonna keep pushing in this project. It's also a goal that's been shared with OWASP and they're quite excited about because we want it to be more about the data, about making it easy for you to work with it, you doing what you need to do with it, making people more aware of the problem, right. It's not just about tooling. If you want to get in touch with this project, you can use these socials and of course some of you are probably already familiar with these links. Maybe the most important one though being the discord at the bottom. If you're not part of this discord, I would urge you please become part of it. Bring all your questions and thoughts and ideas about this to our discord because that's where the community gets together around this. Alright, a lot of people want to know though like why did you do this? Why did we need this? So, I needed this initially because as I was saying a moment ago, I was working with many clients trying to help them answer the question of what are their gaps, where should they be investing for next year's security budget, what do they need to be focused on, things like that. And since I didn't want to just be another voice in the room, I wanted to show them something real. I was bringing them concrete data of what they looked like on the internet and trying to raise the question of is this what you expected to look like? Do you think that's a good idea that you have that exposed? Do you know what that would look like through the attacker lens? And I found this to be far more effective than just sitting there and being, like I said, another voice in the room and saying I think you know I would advocate that you do this with your money. So, it was effective but it needed to be easy, right? Like for me also because I was doing this quite frequently and I didn't really want to sit here doing it manually all the time. But also when this became more about... so when I saw that this wasn't a one-off problem where all these companies were having this problem and I asked myself what are we gonna do about it? The way I saw it was we needed to raise awareness around this but part of that needed to be that if they said well I don't know if we have the resources to address this or we have the people that know how to do this like you do, I wanted to be able to say and you don't need it because there's a tool right here that will do it automatically for you. The person doesn't need to know barely anything about it and you'll get the answers anyway or you'll get the data that you need. So, the purpose of the tool initially really was to make it so these people almost had to address this problem. They had to wake up to what was going on and it turned into, I guess I would say, much more since many people seem to like it. But it really was kind of, in my mind, more focused on these organizations that needed to open their eyes to the gap that they were dealing with. All right, getting to the more interesting things. So, last year I was at this very village on Naham Sec's panel discussion for attack surface management. Was anyone in this room at that panel discussion by chance? All right, look at that, we got one person. Anybody else? All right, because something kind of important happened during that talk. Naham Sec said, should an attack surface just be IT assets and internet infrastructure? And I was kind of quick to say, no, I don't think so. I think it should be anything that is relevant to a security program that can be discovered on the internet. And I think it should... and that's a lot of things. There's a lot of things out there that could fall into that definition. And we talked about it for a while, but I kind of put the stake in the ground at that point and said, well, as far as a MAS is concerned, or the project is concerned, we're broadening the definition as of today. And I meant it. We are going to start working towards being able to include anything that is relevant to a security program, not just what we cover currently. Well, excuse me, like I said, I took that quite seriously. I wasn't kidding. So what did we do about it? What have we done since I was here last time? We realized in order to honor that promise or work towards that promise, we were going to need to be able to represent many more asset types than we currently do, right? We were going to need this data model capable of being very quick to add new types, new relationships between the types. If it took too long to do this or it was too cumbersome, this just wasn't going to work. And it was too cumbersome at the time that this happened. So this was quite a task for us. And a year ago, the database we were using was... it made it impossible for any of you to just say, I have a different use case, I have a different way I'd like to query this data, and I want to pull it out my way, or you know, ask different questions. You couldn't do that. If a mask didn't support it for you, then you weren't getting it, right? And I hated that. And it wasn't going to work for this if we started collecting even more and people had new creative ways they wanted to use it. So it caused the open asset model to be created. Now, let me say real quick, there's no way this would have happened if this was just me doing it. There are some people who made this possible that deserve to be... deserve credit. ZeroFox saw this vision as making perfect sense. They thought this is exactly what the community needs, and that that's just good for everybody. They believed in what I said at this conference last year, and they put a lot of resources against this. They had, you know, like six engineers working full-time for two quarters, director of architecture. I mean, they had quite a team working on this, and they just donated it with no strings attached whatsoever to OWASP. They just said, here, have it. So to ZeroFox, right? Like, that was amazing. We wouldn't be able to talk about this right now if they hadn't made that, you know, put all that energy behind it. And what was created, I got to say, was exactly what I told them I needed to. It was this Agile database that creates unified representation of these assets on the internet, and the relationships between them, and this real-world interconnectedness that we need to be able to represent between the assets. And we did get this taxonomy and model that makes it so easy to add more to this, that this can now be community driven and shaped by all of us from now on. Like, we got this started so that it's capable... it now is what a mass is using, but it's just the beginning, because now there's so much more we can do with it. We also created the database that implements this model. It currently is supported on SQLite, I would say, for all of you that don't want to touch the database with a 10-foot pole. You just want to be able to have it thrown somewhere and start using it. We didn't forget it about all of you, but if you're serious about... you really want to manage this, you want to put it in one central place, and you want to be able to keep this for a very long time and work at high performance, Postgres is what I would recommend you use, and we are supporting that as well. It makes it possible now to be storing the data and pulling it out at the same time. So I can't tell you how many people have said to me, well, I can't access the data that a mass is collecting until it's finished, right? That was kind of... I imagine that must have been quite a problem for a lot of workflows. Well, it's not a problem anymore. These are all able to be accessed concurrently. You can be collecting the data and analyzing it at the same time, which I would think if I was a user of this, I would be very happy about that. And it's all still in this graph-like structure that we used previously, which makes this very easy to navigate and make use of, I would argue. At least personally, I'm pretty set on having it that way, but in my defense, the director of architecture felt the same way who reviewed all this and, like I said, actually built this. What this ends up looking like when you dive into the database and you want to see, well, what did you guys actually create? It's really simple by design. It's two tables, one with assets, one with relations between them. That's it. It's just what is out there and what's the glue between them. And most of it tied together with simple integers that make it extremely high performance and easy to pull this data back out. I don't think this takes too much explanation, but if we find a DNS name, it goes in as a fully qualified domain name, all of these things are represented as JSON, so that each asset type can be unique in what we're saving about it, right? But the rows in the table are the same for everything, meaning, like I said earlier, we could add a new asset type and it doesn't require one change whatsoever to this database, the schema. We just have the new asset type with the new JSON format. So we have the DNS name with the name. We have the IP address with the address. It's a little bit more complicated than this. I've simplified it a little bit for this presentation, but you get the idea. The relations are just the type of relation and what asset is it from and what is it pointing to, like an edge. And that's it. That glues everything together. All of this stuff has timestamps on it, so you can do some fun things like saying, show me only the things that are, you know, have been validated within the last week or whatever. You can check easily for what's new versus what we've known about for quite a long time. I left all those things out so it would fit on this slide. But, as I said, by design we're trying to keep this super simple. There's nothing in here other than what was found and how these things are glued together. That's how we wanted it. That's how it turned out. It makes it so that it's really pretty easy once you see how to go back and forth between the assets and the relations. It's easy to make some powerful questions or ask powerful questions to this database. It's extremely extendable, like I said, I told them it needed to be, so we can create new types. That's the point. So we can keep saying we want to represent more things, more things, more accurately, more at, you know, that's the point. I'm very interested to see how everyone decides to start navigating or querying this information. I think you're gonna start finding things that you didn't realize you could find when we're connecting all the dots in this database. The other thing I'm pretty excited about is typically people are rerunning these scans every time they have a different question they want answered, right? That is so noisy. I mean, so noisy. There's no need for this anymore, right? You can just dump all this into the OAM database and you can just start asking more questions, unless you need to make sure that it's been validated again recently. That's really your only reason to be running the scans again, is to make sure you've updated the data. But you can ask the questions as many times as you want, navigate, peruse, whatever your heart desires. All right, so I've got a very simple demonstration to show you that this is quite real. I'm not just making this up. But let me just say real quick, this isn't to say that the tools you've come to like from Amass aren't still there. If you go to our GitHub, OASP Amass OAM tools, you'll find these three tools right currently. One called OAM subs, another one OAM viz, and another one called OAM track. They're the same functions that we supported before, so that if you really loved these, then don't worry, they're still there. And we'll be coming out with more, I'm sure, in the future. What I'm about to show you isn't to say that we won't create tools to help you with your typical use cases. What I want to show you is that if we are not supporting, you know, we don't have a tool for what you need, don't let us slow you down. This is to empower everybody, make it so that you could write a script to pull the data you need and do what you need to do with it. It's to make this easier, even though the queries might, you know, take you a little while to put together. All right, so actually, there's no keeping up with... you don't have to keep up with me in this demonstration, but if later when these slides are shared, you'd like to reproduce everything that's been done here, or you just want to be able to see that you can do what I did, I've got some instructions here to make sure that you've got, like, the correct version of a mass, which needs to be pretty much the most recent version. You know, make sure you have a recent version of SQLite, things like that. I would personally keep the data separate for your initial use of this, because you don't want to be mixing it with data that you were collecting previously. They're not the same format, so just be careful with that. So I've got two different demonstrations I was going to show. One being what I would call the easiest question you could possibly answer. What are the names that you found? Like, that's usually what people want, right? They run the tool and they say just have it spit out the names. So I'm going to show you how you can do that with SQL instead of relying on us to do it for you. I've got a more complicated example where we traverse more of the database, where it takes the namespace that we're interested in and then says, now show me all the CIDR blocks that these names resolve into, which is often a question I hear people asking. So I'm going to show you how you can do that just with the SQL as well. All right, so hopefully this looks pretty simple to everybody. What we're seeing here is we're just saying... so remember earlier I said that we have JSON for every row and every type of asset, right? So that's what content is in this case. So we're just saying select from the content the name from the assets table where the type has to be fully qualified domain name and the name has to end with a wasp.org. Pretty simple. So if I take this, let's hope that I don't have any issues here. If I copy this, hopefully everyone can see that. Let me remove this. Can everyone see this? All right, good. So I'm already in a database, or sorry, I'm in a directory where there is a database where OWASP.org has been enumerated and it's saved, right? And it's already in this file called a mass dot SQL lite, which is the default place it's gonna put the data if you're running a mass today. Unless you tell it to use Postgres instead. So if I fire off this query, you get the names, right? Straightforward. But what I wanted to show is that this is usually what everybody wants to know, what everybody would like to know. I wanted to show them how easy it is that you could just do it yourself if you like to. You don't need to have tooling around it to do it for you. The more complicated example is this one. Now, I would still argue it's not that complicated once you see what's happening here. Each time you want to go from an asset to a relation back to another asset, you're gonna do two of these joins. It's just the nature of how this is designed, right? So that you can connect the from asset ID on the relation to... or typically that's where you would be coming from with the initial asset. You'd be following the from asset ID across the relation, so to speak, and then to the to asset ID, which means it's pointing to that with the to asset ID. So here what we have is we say well we're gonna print out unique CIDR blocks, right? That's what we're gonna get from the nets table or information. So we start with fully qualified domain names, we use relations as rels1, we associate the ID from the name to the from asset ID, we connect assets again as IPs this time, and then say and if the to asset ID matches the IP then we're interested in it. We keep going though, we take we use relations again, we say if the IP ID matches the to asset ID. Now the reason we're doing that instead is the taxonomy currently doesn't have outgoing relations or relationships for IP addresses. They're only incoming, like in this case, it's the net block contains the IP address. So it's the net block that has the from asset ID. So here we see IP ID equals to asset ID, we join again with nets or assets as nets, where rels2 from asset ID is the net block or the nets ID. And then we do our filtering, where we say for rels1 we want to make sure the type is either the A record or the quad A record, and rels2 needs to be contains. I just explained why a moment ago. I threw in this helpful filter where I demonstrate how you can filter by time, so if you want to say it's got to be something we've validated within the past week, you know, you can do that. It's easy enough. For the asset types, we want to say fully qualified domain names need to be FQDN, the IPs need to be the IP address, the nets need to be the net block. Straightforward. And then finally, the fully qualified domain names need to end in OWASP.org so that this is all relevant to, you know, what we were asking about, which is OWASP.org. So it's a bit much, but if you take the time to craft these things and put them into your script, you don't have to touch them again necessarily, and now you can pull this data out anytime you want. And like I've said before, it's the way you want to do it. But let me quickly demonstrate that this actually works. And it doesn't like me. I see. I must have copied it wrong. We'll try again. And there you have it. We have the four net blocks or CIDR blocks that these names resolve into. Easy enough, quick, but potentially powerful if that's what you're interested in finding out. The purpose, of course, not being that I think this is what everyone needs to know. It's more to demonstrate that you can find out pretty much anything you want to know. This is the point, I would say. All right. So what does this mean for all of us? Or why am I promoting this? So getting on, literally kind of getting on the soapbox here. I'm just, I just think we need to be, like I said at the beginning, more organized about this, right? We need to, we need to have a unified way to communicate about this. We need to have expectations around what kind of data we're collecting for these different asset types. There needs to, there needs to be a way to say, if I'm looking for this information and I ask you for it, I can expect it's gonna be these things you're gonna tell me. Not a spreadsheet that hopefully will have what I'm looking for, maybe, on a lucky day. So, and I don't like this sequential process we're using, where the first tool gets the fewer, the least number of seeds, and as you keep going, tools get more seed data and more, it's like, I don't know, it's, it's, I hope I'm not the only one that feels disappointed by how this is being done. But if we use this hub-and- spoke approach, where we're all, all of this is going into the OAM and all the questions are being answered from the OAM, there would be no, no need to have this clunky sequential process where we're potentially losing data along the way. Each tool could contribute the data to the OAM and everything it has to offer. That's the other thing. We're losing a lot of valuable data from these tools by executing them this way. But if each one was designed to say, here's what I do, here's what I'm gonna go out and get, and I'm going to put all of that into the OAM, they could all be running potentially and concurrently, or in parallel, and giving all their value to the database. I see this as way more powerful, both for tool developers and for the people using the tools. And it makes it easier for everyone to be contributing to this, right? We could have 50 different tools being used potentially, it doesn't really matter, as long as all the data is going back into one place and everyone's accurately reporting what they're finding, then your question could be answered by 50 tools instead of three that you feel fairly confident about, or whatever it is that exactly that you do. But I see this as more powerful than what we do currently. I also think, I said a moment ago, some of these tools are getting seeded with more of the what's been collected so far than others. Why do that? When they all could retrieve from the database to seed, I'll call it equally, all of them can do their discovery process, all of them can store back into the same place, and from the data in the database we could then notify of what is new to what we understand about the, I'll call it, target. But this is a better model. It's also not just my idea, I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that like Haddox has promoted this, I believe Nahamsek has promoted this, I think a lot of us have been saying this is a better approach to handling this than the way many people are doing it currently. So I'm just on the same bandwagon and I feel like the OAM is only gonna make it easier for everybody. I'm pretty excited because of that promise I mentioned at the beginning that we're just kind of, we're just getting started, right? We just got this working in time to bring it to you today. I mean, we were, we got the version 4.0 out, I believe, in July. We are testing it like crazy, you know, putting fixes out. It just was enough so that you can run Amass as you knew it before, but with the OAM now. But that's not where this, that's not the end, it's just the beginning. It's that now we have the data model to support the promise, which was now we're going to add more and more to this data model. And we are going to have... I'm not sure what's going on with that. Apologies for that, I'm not sure what that was about. But, so we're gonna have more, more asset types, more relationships between them. For instance, personally, I'm pretty excited about quickly adding TLS certificates and JARM fingerprints. I can't wait to have the new identifier for these assets. I'm excited about what we're going to connect when we have this additional identifier. But that's just one or two things, right? What's it gonna look like when we start adding email addresses and individuals and organizations and employees? And it's gonna get crazy and really fun, I think, to be doing this. And like I said, you're going to be able to collect all this, I would say, much more quietly and then have all the fun you want perusing the data and coming up with your findings from your recon activities. This is... this feels like the dream, right? And this is what I'm trying to give to everybody. This is where I'm trying to take this. And it's all for the community. There's no strings attached here. This is OWASP, right? We want everyone involved. I want everyone's ideas. Come bring it to the Discord. Let us know where you want to see this go or what you want to see... how you want to see us shape this, right? We're listening. We're reaching out to other organizations as well who are known for producing this kind of information. And they're starting to sign up. They want to export the data in this format. They want to be involved. They want to be chiming in on what is this going to look like. But now is the time, if you're interested, to get involved and put your two cents in. Because we're going to start modeling everything that's relevant to security that's found on the Internet. And that's what I have."
}