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engineering uh all my socials are right

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there I'm @ limited up on Twitter feel

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free to follow me uh also limited on

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LinkedIn I'm not at limited up on

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Soundcloud that's some weird French

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techno stuff but give them a follow just

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in

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case hire sorry here we

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go all right so to jump into this anyone

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recognize this

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woman how's

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that perfect all right so does anyone

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recognize this woman all right so what

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about now right Marilyn Monroe is the

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poster child for Charisma but her

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biggest secret power was the fact that

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she could actually turn it off so marily

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Monroe Love New York and one of the

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favorite stories that I have from that

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is she was wandering through New York

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with her photographer and the

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photographer's wife they rode the subway

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they ate lunch they walked down the

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street no one turned no one batted an

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eye no one saw her finally she turned to

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the couple and she said would you like

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to see her and she like taking off the

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mask Drew herself up to her full height

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and then cars started slowing down and

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honking people started stopping in the

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street a crowd gathered when just

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minutes before they had passed her right

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by a lot of social Engineers would kill

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to have the Charisma of Maryland Monroe

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to be able to attract people and to be

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infectious like that but really I think

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that that antisocial or that ability to

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turn that off and blend in is the best

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superpower you could have and that's

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what antisocial engineering is going to

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be

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about so a little bit about me uh um so

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some fun facts I'm not social I'm a

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total introvert um it's counterintuitive

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because if you see me to con I'm

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charismatic I talk to people these are

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all learned skills over time um really

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I'd rather be at home with my wife and

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my

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dog uh I'm a card magician I typically

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don't talk about that anywhere but uh

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it's a good place so the reason I say

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that I got into card magic for the same

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reason I got into social engineering in

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my early 20s I got of a long-term

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relationship I had no idea how to talk

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to people or or women and so I did the

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most logical thing and thought what's

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the best way to meet women and it's

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learn card

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magic it actually worked so I met my

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wife in a hookah bar doing card

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magic thank

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you uh so another just a housekeeping

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thing is I had three main career goals

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talk at Defcon uh so I think each and

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every one of you that woke up at 9:00 in

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the morning after the night that we all

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had to be here this morning uh I want to

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get a CV but a good one so like

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something like zero log on and I want to

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steal a baby so if anyone here works at

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a hospital and needs a physical pen test

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I'll give you a hell of a

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deal uh but outside of that I've got the

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best job in the world uh I get to chase

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the things that set my soul on fire I do

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just the things that are fun I get to

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talk my way into and out of really

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secure areas I get to rob banks like who

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gets to say that I mean a bunch of

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people in this room but in typical

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company so the why of this talk uh if

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you're anything like me you're in Social

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Engineering Village because you actually

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suck at being social and so who here's

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read some of these books or yeah all of

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these books so I read every book I could

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on social engineering and how to talk to

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people what I soon realize that those

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books were written by people who also

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learned all their skills from

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books um so like for those of you that

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have read The Power of Habit you still

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suck at making habits

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right it's because that book wasn't

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written for you these books w't w't

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written for you

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sorry oh I'm keep it high okay these

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books weren't written for you so power

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habit it doesn't matter if you do a

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27-day habit because you're a little

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neuros spicy you're going to have to use

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anxiety and caffeine to actually fuel

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that

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habit I want to get away from that

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traditional advice I hate this right

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everyone says just act like you belong

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just carry a clipboard look busy put on

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a high Vis vest carry a ladder uh

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carrying Ladd is one of the fastest ways

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to get interrogated by an office manager

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but you can try it um what I I do want

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to say is there's a a good argument for

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natural versus learned social Engineers

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just like all those books we talked

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about earlier most of those books are

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written by people that are doing the

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thing you can't learn by not doing the

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thing right all this uh Verbal Judo

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neural linguistic programming all those

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are just crappy words invented by people

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that wanted to sell books uh but I want

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dispel that myth that social engineering

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is all about bravado and being arrogant

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and this generation's conmen and just

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walking confidently you can be good

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without having to be

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social so we're going to cover our

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kryptonites and our Charisma Buffs the

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first step to being good is knowing what

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you suck at owning what you suck at

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either improving it or moving it out so

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anxiety is one of the worst things uh

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you can imagine the anxiety of I'm going

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to go rob a bank right how do you even

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prep for that so one of the things that

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I do is the first thing I do anytime I

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get in somewhere is I go into the

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bathroom I just chill out for 10 minutes

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not only does it give you time to like

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reformulate and like get the nerves down

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get the Jitters out but it also if

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you've got a security guard following

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you and you sit down they usually won't

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wait you

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out uh so the other things that I do is

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I don't drink any coffee or Red Bull

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beforehand and then I get myself in the

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mindset because for me robbing A bank's

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a Tuesday so I gotta think it's a

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Tuesday so kind of close my eyes a

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little bit maybe I'll I'll yawn it out

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I'll listen to one of those audiobooks

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we mentioned earlier just so I can make

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sure I'm really

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bored

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yeah so the other thing you'll notice is

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a lot of people don't fully commit to

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their bit or to their Persona so they

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put on a stupid voice or they use a

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stupid pretext and you'll notice this

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you watch someone that actually does a

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vision call they'll maybe do a n nasly

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voice and they're going to try to I

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don't know it's like they're making a

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prank call

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and so our neurotypical friends can see

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right through that and see when you're

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being disingenuous the other one is a

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stupid Alias and pretext I am guilty of

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this don't tell someone that your name

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is Rick

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asley or when you're robbing a bank

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don't introduce yourself as Robert Banks

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or rob

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banks uh the other ones are uh talking

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too much and overe explaining I am bad

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about this and some of the best advice I

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ever got was just shut up why are you

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talking so when we break in somewhere

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you're you're on the phone with someone

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don't look a gift horse in the mouth

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I've done SE calls where I call up hey

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this is Andrew I'm back in guy I start

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trying to explain it she's she says

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you're here from it great just let me

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just remote in understand when to stop

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talking you can just shut up and at that

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point I learned oh well now I can go

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into Rapport building this woman wanted

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to talk about her kids taking them to

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the aquarium we talked where we're going

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vacation and she was the lead of the

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department she she ended up handing me

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to everyone else she said I said is

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there anyone else that help me and I got

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to fish her entire department because

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she gave me that social proof but in

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that same way like if you're walking in

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with the ladder you don't have to

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explain to people like I'm climbing a

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ladder I'm changing a light bulb and

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don't be afraid of Silence if you've

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ever been on a support call the guy's

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not chatting your ear off the whole time

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there's long pauses there's long mutes

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you can do that um so if someone goes

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this is really weird like I don't know

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I'm like you know what that is really

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can I mute you real fast Carolyn I'm

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gonna go talk to my manager because why

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I don't know why sorry I'm just reading

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the script uh the other thing is looking

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lost the second you look lost you open

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yourself up for someone to come say can

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I help you um my wife says that I kind

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of disassociate I thought I had a

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friendly Persona apparently I look at

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dead inside when I walk around and I I

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give off this a of don't talk to me um

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so that's one of those things if you

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just kind of days out or you're you're

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in an IT mode that's another one uh

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acting suspicious and this is uh

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important for later on when you're doing

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a physical pent test don't creep around

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you're not like don't don't like slide

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into doors I've done that I'm guilty of

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it um you know like don't duck behind

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Corners if it's nighttime don't Crouch

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like don't Sprint if someone's looking

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out a window they see a guy that's

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tiptoeing and nods and you know all

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blacked out like they're probably going

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to be worried versus a guy that's

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dressed like me just wandering around I

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mean even if you're on a cell phone

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that's less suspicious than someone

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that's decked out in Tac gear and then

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Collision courses a great thing I didn't

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realize

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that there are times where you can avoid

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Collision courses when I say a collision

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course that means you're going up

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against a gatekeeper and on one of my

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first physical pen tests we're walking

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across a parking lot and the security

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guard stops and they wait and we're on a

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clear crash course I have to walk past

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them we're in the middle of this big

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open parking lot and the other engineer

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with me goes hey man just have a seat

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right here and we sat down in a parking

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block and we just talked for 10 minutes

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and finally security went away you don't

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have to force that interaction but as

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someone that's antisocial we think oh

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God we don't want to look weird we want

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to make sure we look human want to make

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sure that we follow the script when you

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can just sit

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down so now that we figured out your uh

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your kryptonites and the Charisma Buffs

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we're going to cover your superpowers

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the six skills on the left those are

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pretty much self-explanatory those are

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things that you all naturally possess

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that you can do those are perfect for

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you not having to interact with people

271
00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,399
and that's where you can get into places

272
00:09:38,399 --> 00:09:40,200
and do things without feeling the need

273
00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,640
to talk about the sports scores or

274
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,480
strike up a

275
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,920
conversation um antisocial people are

276
00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,680
really conflict diverse we don't want to

277
00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:52,079
have to talk to people we're already

278
00:09:52,079 --> 00:09:53,800
stressed out about how we're conversing

279
00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,320
as it is so to be conflict diverse we

280
00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:58,440
will tend to avoid the people in that

281
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,079
same token being conflict diverse we're

282
00:10:01,079 --> 00:10:02,720
we also are really good at picking up

283
00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:04,480
non-verbal cues whatever you can say

284
00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:06,440
about antisocial people not being able

285
00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:07,800
to read someone or maybe people on

286
00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:09,360
somewhere on the Spectrum not being good

287
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,560
at reading people they are because

288
00:10:11,560 --> 00:10:13,000
they've practiced and they've honed

289
00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:14,600
knowing which people would be nice to

290
00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,959
them and which people will be jerks um

291
00:10:17,959 --> 00:10:20,600
later on in the talk I will follow these

292
00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,600
rules and I'll also break these rules

293
00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:23,760
because there are times when I'm trying

294
00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,120
to blend in and there's times when I'm

295
00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:26,600
trying to get

296
00:10:26,600 --> 00:10:29,200
caught uh active listening that's

297
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,160
another good skill to have if you're

298
00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,920
good at paying attention you can pick up

299
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,800
maybe a name or a thing U you have no

300
00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,120
idea how many server rooms we found just

301
00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,720
by listening for White Noise uh you just

302
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:42,200
listen for fan noise you can find them

303
00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:43,959
you can hear people coming or walking

304
00:10:43,959 --> 00:10:46,279
around um a lot of times I've used it

305
00:10:46,279 --> 00:10:48,279
when I started like uh hey I'm here to

306
00:10:48,279 --> 00:10:50,360
see so and so and they go check to

307
00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:52,480
someone and they say oh was he here with

308
00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:53,920
that other guy and then when the person

309
00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:55,399
comes back I say oh yeah I was here with

310
00:10:55,399 --> 00:10:58,079
Dan yesterday and oh great okay perfect

311
00:10:58,079 --> 00:11:00,720
so you can use that the hyperfocus pays

312
00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,560
in like ahead of time um when you're

313
00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:05,399
doing your pre-engagement and you have

314
00:11:05,399 --> 00:11:07,079
to learn everything about every Niche

315
00:11:07,079 --> 00:11:09,600
and everything uh you can pick up the

316
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,320
maps whatever it is the hyper awareness

317
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,279
that comes with the the sight The Sounds

318
00:11:15,279 --> 00:11:17,240
uh pattern recognition that's everything

319
00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:19,079
from how employees act how buildings are

320
00:11:19,079 --> 00:11:21,880
laid out and then being comfortable with

321
00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:25,519
silence um every time you talk every

322
00:11:25,519 --> 00:11:28,680
interaction you have is a battle it is a

323
00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:30,839
I'm going to be caught so if you

324
00:11:30,839 --> 00:11:32,800
minimize the opportunity for people to

325
00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:34,880
talk to you you minimize your chance of

326
00:11:34,880 --> 00:11:37,560
getting caught there's a a theory called

327
00:11:37,560 --> 00:11:40,120
conversation threading where instead of

328
00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:41,440
saying hey what do you do for work and

329
00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,360
you say I'm a pentester you say hey I'm

330
00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:46,480
a pentester in Oklahoma I mainly focus

331
00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,360
on red teaming but when I'm not doing

332
00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,040
that I want to be at home with my dog

333
00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,240
that's where talking too much gets you

334
00:11:51,240 --> 00:11:53,839
in trouble because that first answer was

335
00:11:53,839 --> 00:11:55,519
a simple okay there's not much to build

336
00:11:55,519 --> 00:11:59,600
on but when you give someone six things

337
00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:01,079
then they can there's more scrutiny they

338
00:12:01,079 --> 00:12:02,680
can have so if you can just walk into an

339
00:12:02,680 --> 00:12:06,319
elevator and shut up you're going to do

340
00:12:06,639 --> 00:12:08,519
good all right so we're going to cover

341
00:12:08,519 --> 00:12:10,240
the the methodology of a physical pen

342
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,000
test so we do a high a medium and a low

343
00:12:13,000 --> 00:12:15,320
skill attack so we want to do this

344
00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,040
because it's a a spread it's not a a

345
00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,480
oneandone and the customer fails it

346
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,079
gives them multiple levels to see where

347
00:12:22,079 --> 00:12:24,880
their weaknesses are so we start with

348
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,000
the high that's the guy on the left they

349
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,440
have the clipboard they've got the

350
00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,720
outfit it uh we may have pulled

351
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,279
signatures and put calendar reminders on

352
00:12:33,279 --> 00:12:35,959
because we compromised the VPN they have

353
00:12:35,959 --> 00:12:37,560
everything that they need to be

354
00:12:37,560 --> 00:12:39,440
successful you would think that person

355
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,000
would actually be the most successful

356
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:42,480
but it turns out that they're caught the

357
00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,399
most often because they have the most

358
00:12:45,399 --> 00:12:47,279
opportunity they have the most holes

359
00:12:47,279 --> 00:12:50,040
they have the most gotes uh people have

360
00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,600
a process for dealing with the guy on

361
00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:53,800
the left that has everything he's

362
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,720
supposed to the person in the middle

363
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:58,279
that's your medium skill attack it's

364
00:12:58,279 --> 00:13:00,720
your assumptions so they're going to be

365
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,360
your water guy the FedEx person it's not

366
00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:05,279
the Postal Service don't imitate the

367
00:13:05,279 --> 00:13:07,639
Postal Service six months in jail

368
00:13:07,639 --> 00:13:11,680
$10,000 fine don't imitate the FCC same

369
00:13:11,680 --> 00:13:13,360
thing don't imitate the authority of the

370
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:15,480
FCC they will get really pissed just

371
00:13:15,480 --> 00:13:17,199
throw that out there but the guy in the

372
00:13:17,199 --> 00:13:18,880
middle their job is to be the

373
00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:20,600
assumptions so they're going to have

374
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,199
maybe the pretext they're going to look

375
00:13:22,199 --> 00:13:23,760
the part they're going to let you assume

376
00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:25,360
they're supposed to be there but they're

377
00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:26,440
not going to have anything once they

378
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:28,120
fall apart and then you have the low

379
00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:30,199
skill attack it is the idiot off the

380
00:13:30,199 --> 00:13:32,199
street it's the I'm not supposed to be

381
00:13:32,199 --> 00:13:35,199
in here guy that's me and I absolutely

382
00:13:35,199 --> 00:13:37,800
love my

383
00:13:37,839 --> 00:13:40,800
job so as the low skill attacker my guy

384
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:42,800
my job is to get as deep into an

385
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:45,079
organization as possible and just look

386
00:13:45,079 --> 00:13:47,600
weird and if I'm not weird enough then

387
00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,240
it's getting weirder and weirder until

388
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:51,759
someone finally says who are you what

389
00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:52,880
are you

390
00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,079
doing uh it's a skill that you have to

391
00:13:55,079 --> 00:13:57,079
be comfortable lying to people's faces

392
00:13:57,079 --> 00:13:59,440
thinking on your feet um you know

393
00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,519
talking under pressure and then also

394
00:14:01,519 --> 00:14:06,040
lockpicking and lock bypassing uh Under

395
00:14:07,399 --> 00:14:09,560
Pressure so we'll go ahead and jump into

396
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:11,560
an engagement so this first story

397
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,040
happens during the day uh the scope is

398
00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,160
breaking into

399
00:14:15,160 --> 00:14:17,399
organization given uh demonstrate the

400
00:14:17,399 --> 00:14:19,079
ability to interrupt critical business

401
00:14:19,079 --> 00:14:21,320
process they want to spend as much time

402
00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:22,160
as

403
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,880
possible maximize the interactions

404
00:14:24,880 --> 00:14:26,839
escalate till someone finally confronts

405
00:14:26,839 --> 00:14:28,720
you and take a picture with some

406
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:29,920
critical

407
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:31,839
infrastructure so a little bit about the

408
00:14:31,839 --> 00:14:33,440
facility it's a gated facility they've

409
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:35,279
got armed guards at the entry points I'm

410
00:14:35,279 --> 00:14:36,399
going to be a little vague about the

411
00:14:36,399 --> 00:14:38,639
industry for NDA reasons uh but

412
00:14:38,639 --> 00:14:41,240
essentially I scoped everything out

413
00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:42,680
Google mapped it we did a ton of

414
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,279
pretexting and planning and we knew we

415
00:14:44,279 --> 00:14:45,480
couldn't get in the front door because

416
00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,279
it's armed guard they vet everyone

417
00:14:47,279 --> 00:14:49,880
through it's not going to be great but

418
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:51,959
there's a parking garage so the day of

419
00:14:51,959 --> 00:14:53,759
the event I kind of walk around the

420
00:14:53,759 --> 00:14:56,199
security guard's pretty on it so I wait

421
00:14:56,199 --> 00:14:57,600
I wait and I wait I've slapped the

422
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,759
building maybe three times it's a big

423
00:14:59,759 --> 00:15:01,920
building and finally I see my

424
00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,079
opportunity a car pulls up to the gate

425
00:15:04,079 --> 00:15:06,720
and I walk past the gate so as I'm

426
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,600
walking I made it about 20 steps and the

427
00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,040
security guard says she says uh sir do

428
00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,639
you have a badge and I didn't

429
00:15:12,639 --> 00:15:14,560
acknowledge I didn't stop this is where

430
00:15:14,560 --> 00:15:16,240
as an antisocial person we're used to

431
00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:17,639
following the rule of order we're going

432
00:15:17,639 --> 00:15:19,880
to stop and oh no I'm sorry you caught

433
00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,639
me here's my get out of Y free letter

434
00:15:21,639 --> 00:15:24,320
instead I just turned and said yep and

435
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,320
kept walking I held up my my wallet I

436
00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,920
said okay I'm good then it was cra now

437
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,880
how do I get in I could see the door and

438
00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,680
I saw it had a badge reader and so I

439
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,759
wanted to be prepped and I knew I might

440
00:15:35,759 --> 00:15:36,959
have to hang out but I went ahead and

441
00:15:36,959 --> 00:15:38,720
grabb my traveler's hook and I was able

442
00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:40,160
to traveler hooked the first door and

443
00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,319
get in the second door also had an uh hi

444
00:15:43,319 --> 00:15:45,399
procs and so I'm like great what do I do

445
00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:47,519
now so I just knocked on the door and a

446
00:15:47,519 --> 00:15:49,560
guy walking by stopped and I said dude

447
00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:51,000
my badge works on the outside but not

448
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:52,360
the inside he goes oh yeah yeah you're

449
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,759
good so he just lets me in what do you

450
00:15:55,759 --> 00:15:57,360
think the first thing I do is I go to

451
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,759
the bathroom I go call on my nerves I

452
00:15:59,759 --> 00:16:02,680
wait 10 minutes and I come out so then

453
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:04,279
I'm it's time to go to work so I start

454
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:06,639
by sitting down at a desk I plug in get

455
00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:09,360
my laptop ready uh fire up in map and

456
00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,040
I'm just hanging out I sit there for

457
00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:12,600
about four or five minutes and the guy

458
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:14,399
across from me immedately stands up he

459
00:16:14,399 --> 00:16:17,040
says uh hey are you new here oh yeah I'm

460
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,000
here with uh I'm doing the it Wireless

461
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,360
audit as I'm doing this as I'm talking

462
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,800
to him I don't want to give him too much

463
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:24,759
and I'm looking around his desk and I

464
00:16:24,759 --> 00:16:26,800
noticed that he's an anime nerd he's got

465
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,639
the car from Initial D and I go is is

466
00:16:28,639 --> 00:16:30,880
that the Torino from the initial D he oh

467
00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:32,920
yeah and he proceeds to info dump on me

468
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:34,440
for 10 minutes about how much he loves

469
00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:36,720
drifting and all these cars and it took

470
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,880
all the pressure off of me so he senses

471
00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:39,839
you know hey I've been talking for 10

472
00:16:39,839 --> 00:16:41,240
minutes hey I've got to start this audit

473
00:16:41,240 --> 00:16:42,720
it was great chatting can I get your

474
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,759
email uh because I think we should like

475
00:16:44,759 --> 00:16:47,319
grab lunch the next time here absolutely

476
00:16:47,319 --> 00:16:48,839
that guy became my best friend because

477
00:16:48,839 --> 00:16:52,279
he was then my social proof he yeah so

478
00:16:52,279 --> 00:16:54,399
much weird he was able to dismiss people

479
00:16:54,399 --> 00:16:55,639
like what's this guy doing why is he

480
00:16:55,639 --> 00:16:58,040
standing on a desk like oh he's with it

481
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,480
he's fine

482
00:17:00,959 --> 00:17:03,800
so for the boring stuff uh under door

483
00:17:03,800 --> 00:17:06,280
tool server room hands- on keyboard get

484
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:08,559
the wins get the owns take the Selfies

485
00:17:08,559 --> 00:17:09,720
and I'm like all right well now it's

486
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,000
time to start getting weird so whereas

487
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,640
earlier we talked about avoiding

488
00:17:13,640 --> 00:17:15,559
confrontation and avoiding people that

489
00:17:15,559 --> 00:17:17,959
look mean uh I start looking for people

490
00:17:17,959 --> 00:17:19,480
that have headphones in and I start

491
00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:20,480
tapping them on the shoulder because

492
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:22,039
people hate being touched I hate being

493
00:17:22,039 --> 00:17:25,000
touched and hey can you uh where's the

494
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:27,880
dumb questions where's the server room

495
00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,559
what how do I connect to the Wi-Fi like

496
00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:32,600
uh I'm trying to email this person what

497
00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,400
how what's our email format and I

498
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:35,520
couldn't get anyone to let me in I

499
00:17:35,520 --> 00:17:36,960
pissed a lot of people off but I

500
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:38,640
couldn't get anyone to finally catch me

501
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,880
so I started making laps of the facility

502
00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,160
just holding my laptop looking up in the

503
00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:47,880
air and finally after three laps the

504
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:49,160
office manager comes over to me and he

505
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:51,720
said who are you and I'm like oh I'm I'm

506
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,720
your it guy I said no you're not our it

507
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,320
gu is in there I'm like I'm your it guy

508
00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,640
from corporate I said well we don't know

509
00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:58,960
anything about who you are I'm like I

510
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:00,320
don't know corporate sent me like how'd

511
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,679
you get in like with a badge um and so

512
00:18:03,679 --> 00:18:05,159
I'm going to go check this out and they

513
00:18:05,159 --> 00:18:07,640
walked away and left

514
00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,000
me so I took that opportunity I'm like

515
00:18:10,000 --> 00:18:11,159
okay I've done everything I need I've

516
00:18:11,159 --> 00:18:13,320
finally been confronted and so I dipped

517
00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:15,600
out dropped my bag came back in I got to

518
00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:17,400
tell them hey yep I was here I did all

519
00:18:17,400 --> 00:18:19,559
the

520
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:22,919
things different place different time

521
00:18:22,919 --> 00:18:25,520
but this time at night uh there's a book

522
00:18:25,520 --> 00:18:27,840
on red team operations physical red team

523
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:28,840
operations

524
00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:30,440
and it's all about how to be a super

525
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:34,280
Elite operator with nvgs and Gilly suits

526
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,320
and that's not me um and I think that

527
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:39,120
that's a bad way to approach that but

528
00:18:39,120 --> 00:18:40,559
the scope of this engagement was break

529
00:18:40,559 --> 00:18:42,840
into an organization at night um they

530
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,360
wanted me to go out of my way to avoid

531
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,039
interaction so try not to confront

532
00:18:47,039 --> 00:18:49,440
anyone uh for a while try to maximize

533
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,039
your time on site and if you've been

534
00:18:51,039 --> 00:18:52,840
there for a while like an hour and no

535
00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:54,240
one's confronted you because they said

536
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,400
it's super secure site but if you make

537
00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:58,120
it an hour without anyone confronting

538
00:18:58,120 --> 00:18:59,720
you well then you need to start

539
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:01,360
escalating and get someone to talk to

540
00:19:01,360 --> 00:19:03,919
you and then of course take selfies with

541
00:19:03,919 --> 00:19:04,919
critical

542
00:19:04,919 --> 00:19:09,919
infrastructure so being at nighttime uh

543
00:19:09,919 --> 00:19:12,919
sorry so being nighttime uh there wasn't

544
00:19:12,919 --> 00:19:15,360
this option to you know like maybe

545
00:19:15,360 --> 00:19:17,200
tailgate behind someone I was going to

546
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:19,840
look out a place so I climbed The Back

547
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,000
Fence uh and I walked around all the

548
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:23,600
doors and I took a number two pencil and

549
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,520
I leaned it against the hinge uh thanks

550
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,440
FC if he's here I heard that on one of

551
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,159
his talks and it's been a godsend so the

552
00:19:30,159 --> 00:19:31,559
pencil leans against the hinge the next

553
00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:32,960
time someone opens the door pencil falls

554
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,720
in the hinge you got a nice little booby

555
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:37,640
trap so I set that and I go hide behind

556
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,840
an air conditioning unit for 30 minutes

557
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:41,840
uh 30 minutes later come back someone

558
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,159
sprung my trap and then you can guess

559
00:19:44,159 --> 00:19:45,600
the first thing I did when I got in I

560
00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:47,600
went to the bathroom to calm my nerves

561
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,200
chill out and I started walking around I

562
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:51,840
put my headphones in my airpods and I

563
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:53,720
threw them in transparency mode so I

564
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,120
could pick up all those little noises uh

565
00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:57,520
one of the side notes from the after

566
00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:59,480
action review that customer kept saying

567
00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:01,360
it was like you had a sick sense like

568
00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:03,280
you knew where people were coming from

569
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,000
cuz everyone just missed you what they

570
00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:07,559
didn't realiz that people walk like

571
00:20:07,559 --> 00:20:10,159
horses and that I could hear them coming

572
00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:11,760
and so anytime I heard someone I would

573
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,480
just duck around a corner or drop into a

574
00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:18,080
room um but as far as that goes did all

575
00:20:18,080 --> 00:20:20,039
the things I went to the

576
00:20:20,039 --> 00:20:22,640
places uh got all of my Flags dropped

577
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,480
all my business cards where I needed and

578
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,200
I'm like okay well let's maximize

579
00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:28,240
interactions so I went to the break room

580
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:29,640
room and again it's night shift but

581
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:31,799
they've got a whole busy facility so I

582
00:20:31,799 --> 00:20:34,360
sit in the break room I talk to people

583
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:35,880
uh a good way to get people's attention

584
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,400
is to start going through the fridge uh

585
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,880
so I did that no one confronted me uh I

586
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,480
walked to the main production plant and

587
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,240
started opening cabinets that I wasn't

588
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:46,480
supposed to and trying to touch things

589
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,640
and again no one bothered me uh it

590
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:51,080
wasn't until I finally tried to access

591
00:20:51,080 --> 00:20:52,919
an area that had diesel generators and

592
00:20:52,919 --> 00:20:54,559
battery backups that one of the

593
00:20:54,559 --> 00:20:56,320
engineers stopped me because he's like

594
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,320
um what are you doing I said I'm here

595
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,080
fixing the Wi-Fi he goes there's no

596
00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:01,200
Wi-Fi in

597
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,880
there but he was the first person he

598
00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:04,960
only confronted me because I was

599
00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,600
starting to do something dangerous so I

600
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:09,200
went with my pretext well how who are

601
00:21:09,200 --> 00:21:12,120
you how'd you get in uh my badge he made

602
00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:13,640
me go show him that my badge didn't

603
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,760
actually work so he calls his boss and

604
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,200
his boss is furious because corpit

605
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:19,520
didn't tell him that they were kind of

606
00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,240
send someone out and they're going to

607
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,320
kick me out he said no you you sent him

608
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:24,559
out I said well I'm going to hang out

609
00:21:24,559 --> 00:21:26,039
for like 10 minutes in case you find out

610
00:21:26,039 --> 00:21:27,840
I'm supposed to be here he goes no get

611
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:30,360
off my sight I don't know who you are

612
00:21:30,360 --> 00:21:32,279
you don't have any authority to be here

613
00:21:32,279 --> 00:21:34,720
he was a real jerk I said okay I'm going

614
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:36,520
to stand outside for 10 minutes and once

615
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,919
you figure out I'll be here so they

616
00:21:38,919 --> 00:21:40,760
kicked me out I sit outside on a rock

617
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:42,240
four minutes later he comes out and he

618
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:45,039
says you son of a

619
00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,600
 he said how far did you get I said

620
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,520
I got everything yeah he was furious

621
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,559
with me but I said don't worry it was

622
00:21:53,559 --> 00:21:55,880
your guy that caught me so he was really

623
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:58,159
happy with that but again I was able to

624
00:21:58,159 --> 00:22:00,279
to get all the things and it was

625
00:22:00,279 --> 00:22:02,799
awesome so the breakdown of all of those

626
00:22:02,799 --> 00:22:05,039
right I don't tell those stories because

627
00:22:05,039 --> 00:22:07,320
they're awesome but I tell them because

628
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,120
I used all those skills and I didn't

629
00:22:09,120 --> 00:22:11,679
have to use this bravado or I didn't

630
00:22:11,679 --> 00:22:13,440
have to be this outgoing charismatic

631
00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:15,760
figure to pull that off I got to just be

632
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:17,679
myself right so I got to use my

633
00:22:17,679 --> 00:22:20,279
unfriendly demeanor my resting uh jerk

634
00:22:20,279 --> 00:22:23,000
face um yeah being able to lockpick

635
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,679
Under Pressure being able to lie to

636
00:22:24,679 --> 00:22:25,679
people that was the great thing about

637
00:22:25,679 --> 00:22:28,640
being a magician was you learn to talk

638
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:29,919
to people and tell them you're doing one

639
00:22:29,919 --> 00:22:30,840
thing while you're doing something

640
00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,240
completely different uh learning that

641
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:35,320
which people to cause confrontation

642
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:37,200
interact with and knowing when to start

643
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,120
looking suspicious knowing that I look

644
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,720
too normal just walking around so maybe

645
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,159
I need to start getting a little weird

646
00:22:43,159 --> 00:22:46,159
and then being able to slip out

647
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,120
unnoticed so my closing thoughts on

648
00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:50,440
social engineering and being a good

649
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,279
social engineer be your authentic self

650
00:22:54,279 --> 00:22:56,240
there are plenty of Kevin mittnik and

651
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,679
whoever you know name a person

652
00:22:58,679 --> 00:23:00,640
they are who they are play to your

653
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:03,159
strengths be the you that you want to be

654
00:23:03,159 --> 00:23:05,640
as a social engineer and social engineer

655
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:06,600
own

656
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:08,159
opportunities

657
00:23:08,159 --> 00:23:10,760
so when I wanted to learn something I

658
00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:12,559
found a way to always make it the thing

659
00:23:12,559 --> 00:23:14,200
I wanted to do or I found a way to

660
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,440
social engineer it so let's say you want

661
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:18,559
to get good at lockpicking how I got

662
00:23:18,559 --> 00:23:20,279
good at lockpicking Under Pressure I

663
00:23:20,279 --> 00:23:22,559
went to Home Depot and picked locks

664
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:24,720
because you're not going to jail but it

665
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,600
gives you some nervous feeling if you

666
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:28,720
want to get good at Vishing answer every

667
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,520
spam call that comes to your phone just

668
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,039
pick it up and you talk to those guys as

669
00:23:32,039 --> 00:23:33,640
long as possible if you can keep on the

670
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,720
phone for an hour you're doing great

671
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,960
like that's a great way to practice all

672
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:40,720
of your uh your Vishing and it's easy

673
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,120
lie everywhere that you

674
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,480
go yeah anywhere you can if you're on an

675
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,320
airplane lie about your name make up a

676
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:49,760
whole pretext I mean see if you can get

677
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,360
away with this stuff get used to

678
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,799
repeating this U so I I apologize if

679
00:23:53,799 --> 00:23:55,559
anyone has been around me and I've told

680
00:23:55,559 --> 00:23:56,960
a story and you're like wait you're not

681
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:58,559
Dave and you're you're not a deep sea

682
00:23:58,559 --> 00:24:03,000
fisherman like no but uh and finally uh

683
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,960
adapt the engagements to you don't adapt

684
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,400
yourself to the situation uh and it's

685
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,400
kind of like if all you have is a hammer

686
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:12,120
every problem's a nail and in it world

687
00:24:12,120 --> 00:24:13,559
if you've worked it long enough you know

688
00:24:13,559 --> 00:24:15,600
that if you're a network engineer you're

689
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,000
going to solve all of your problems with

690
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:18,840
vling and if you're a Windows engineer

691
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:20,720
you'll solve the same problem with ACLS

692
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:22,120
and if you're a firewall guy then you're

693
00:24:22,120 --> 00:24:24,720
going to do firewall rules adapt your

694
00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:26,760
your engagements to who you are and make

695
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:28,840
them what to your skill set and know

696
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,520
your weaknesses and that is everything

697
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,720
thank

698
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,240
you and I will be in the hall if anyone

699
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,240
has any questions or wants to

700
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:50,960
chat