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that they let's back up this is what I

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love Arty boy did not engage in the

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costume Shenanigans one bit and the

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point difference was enough that had he

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have he would have been first place and

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now we weren't playing around this time

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full costumes how's it feel to go from

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second place knowing that it was it was

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just that piece that could have taken it

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and now being here and and actually

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cinching

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it I feel like it was an important

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lesson learned

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and I think I just wanted to have more

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fun with this this year uh I had this

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apron made and it says Ry boy Devcon 31

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SEC VC and it's from their official swag

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shop so I thought it was fun to have

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them print it um I only got to change

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into it at the very end I had a funny

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pretext plan but my main one was going

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so well so I didn't want to change it up

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but I'm happy I got to show it off a

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little bit

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I I'm curious when Papa John's goes

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through and finds out and they start

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looking through the store I like oh I

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guess I guess that did happen hopefully

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you use somebody else's address and all

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of that you used a different name at

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least beautiful all right and um

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Doom this is the first time

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competing yeah are are we going to be in

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similar shoes because I believe you also

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happen to dress up and the point

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difference is not far off how are we

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feeling are we coming back next year

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with a win what what do you think held

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us back yeah I think missing the easy

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points and that was one thing that the

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coaches talked about is picking up the

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easy points but whenever you get into

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the booth and I'm sure everybody else

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can attest you just kind of go into

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tunnel vision and your chest starts

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caving in a little bit and I didn't get

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a call for I think or a flag for like

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eight minutes and I had a little I had a

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few things plann but I just didn't

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prepare as much as I wanted to I know

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going into this next competition what to

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to expect and I am going to have every

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base covered every base is going to and

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I'm probably going to have a

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partner oh you you will have a partner I

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believe so yeah Arty boy didn't need no

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partner hey Arty boy is is Arty boy no I

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back up let's talk about Arty boy's

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partner for a second a lot of people

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don't know the cat companion this cat's

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been in it my cat helps a lot um my cat

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took H Trophy last year too uh sometimes

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she's a bit of emotional stress though

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but I have my other non-competition

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partner who has helped me with the

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stress at least and at least one

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breakdown preparing for this all but I

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really appreciate

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that all right so I have some questions

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for you both so let's let's take it back

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to the beginning right so you you sign

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up for this competition well you were

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invited back you get your target company

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what is going through your mind when you

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see a pizza company for the Target

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company um I'll start with you

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Jason um I was nervous because a pizza

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company is a lot more franchise and

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store-based than last year which was

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commercial real estate uh commercial

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real estate agents have every incentive

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to pick up the phone and try to make you

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happy because they want to sell you

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things uh person working at a pizza

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store not so much uh and I was having a

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lot of trouble finding more corporate

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numbers so I thought I'd have to rely on

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the stores more which I didn't end up

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having to as much the Corporate calls

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went very well but it was a bit of a

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squeeze I was pretty nervous about

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getting the info I needed out of those

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people yeah I didn't know what to expect

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whenever I first started looking I

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probably spent eight hours and I didn't

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find much and then I started digging

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deeper and going through the different

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layers of information

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and then it just kind of starts opening

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up uh whenever I first got the comp

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company though the first thing that

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thought into my mind was this is going

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to be tough because Domino's is kind of

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known for their technology and their

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pinpoint delivery and all that stuff so

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um the information is there if you look

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for it the correct way like you can find

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all the information you really need to

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plan the attack

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correctly so with preparation do you

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have anything that you feel like really

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set you up for Success before even

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getting the booth was there a strategy

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you did was there maybe like when em

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finding was it the coaches help like do

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you have kind of a path to success that

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you think was really beneficial for

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you uh the coaches were really helpful

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even this second year with new advice

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and just encouragement to keep going

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persistence was key because there a few

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points I wanted to like take a break and

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stop but I just kept pushing especially

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for like the ENT report um I remember

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having like a pretty last minute call

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with JC and I was still missing quite a

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few objectives but I ended up pushing

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out like quite a few of them in that

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last day or two I think it was just even

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the last day after our last coaching

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session and just keeping at it and

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thinking you know even if my evidence

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isn't super concrete how can I prove

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something or you know make the best case

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I can for all of the ENT I found so I

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think just the persistence and you know

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just making any case I could and piecing

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together every bit of info I could

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helped me a

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lot yeah similar story um I've got 10

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years of Academia I'm old school so I've

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wrote thousands and thousands of pages

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and the

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ENT report I approached it like I was

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doing some sort of research and it was

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good but then again it was bad because

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you just don't know where you're going

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to find the information and sometimes

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it's good to break off from what you're

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looking for it was a a whirlwind of

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experience and I think that that's the

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big biggest takeaway for me is you just

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kind of have to go through the process

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once or twice and then you you learn so

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much uh just from your own failures so

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if you're at home and you're kind of

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thinking about doing something like this

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just pick a company and see what you can

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come up with that would be my biggest

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suggestion I wish I would have done that

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before I actually started the

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contest so so we kind of get into an

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interesting thing with the the coaching

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that was something uh snow and I came up

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with last year when we built this

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competition and we're wondering how can

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we give attendees who want to compete

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that have never competed or have you

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know had any practical experience in

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this the best Advantage possible so

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having the coaches available to you can

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you walk me through what that was like

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Goods the bads the Uglies I will take

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back my any anything I did wrong I'll

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own and make better but I am curious you

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know how did that affect how do you

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think it affected your your ability to

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compete I think you know going into even

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before I started the coaching sessions I

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was leaning on a lot of the work I did

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last year the same ENT techniques and

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data sources and whatnot uh there are

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things I had forgotten about or like

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ideas I hadn't used last year so just

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talking to the

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coaches um was really helpful for new

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ideas and new places to look for info

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that maybe I didn't use last year and

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like I said just the encouragement to

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keep going was really helpful also

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I was you know very certain to schedule

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all the coaching sessions I could this

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year and I spaced them apart so there

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were also nice little milestones and

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check-ins you know as I was working on

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the reports and making sure I was

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keeping progress up every week i' have

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you know something new to talk about and

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00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,878
not just wasting my time or the coach's

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time it was great for me I had no clue

201
00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,240
what to expect going in and and you guys

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00:07:56,240 --> 00:08:00,120
saved me uh so many points in it was the

203
00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:02,639
biggest takeaway for me was it was

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consistent is be ready to Pivot whenever

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you run into an issue and I ran into an

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issue and I

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pivoted um and then another thing that

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JC told me and a couple other coaches

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was to stay focus stay focused on the

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task and you know just with the little

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00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:19,599
things like that I wouldn't have been

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00:08:19,599 --> 00:08:22,599
able to dial it in and you know laser

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00:08:22,599 --> 00:08:24,400
focus on what I was doing so I I do

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00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,039
appreciate it it was valuable because I

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00:08:26,039 --> 00:08:27,440
didn't even know what to ask whenever we

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00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:29,400
went into the coaching and you guys let

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00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:31,240
me down the path you didn't tell me you

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00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:32,479
guys led me down the path and I

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00:08:32,479 --> 00:08:34,279
appreciated that because I can figure it

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00:08:34,279 --> 00:08:37,080
out on my own with your help you know

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00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:38,640
guiding

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00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,958
me all right so let's talk about getting

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in the booth so you get in there you put

224
00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,200
the headphones on what is going through

225
00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,480
your mind first well I guess hang on

226
00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,360
before we even do that on Thursday again

227
00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:54,200
we are so dedicated to their success we

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00:08:54,200 --> 00:08:56,800
also have uh multiple webinars to

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00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,800
discuss hey here's how it works here's

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00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,640
what you should be expecting just to

231
00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:02,600
bring everybody together and then on

232
00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,680
Thursday we just have the competitors in

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00:09:05,680 --> 00:09:08,320
here as part of a debrief and give you

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an ability to look at the booth so Arty

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00:09:10,519 --> 00:09:13,240
boy I know you are intimately familiar

236
00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,959
with the booth and so it was it was like

237
00:09:15,959 --> 00:09:18,920
hello my old nemes yes I I'd like to

238
00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,160
know I I'd like to know two things one

239
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,200
Arty boy your reintroduction how was

240
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,480
that and then for Doom how was your

241
00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:30,800
first your first meeting with it

242
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,360
uh there were a few new things in the

243
00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:34,399
booth which were cool the little Keys

244
00:09:34,399 --> 00:09:36,720
the mute button and then I was I also

245
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,279
had my iPad in there this year to play

246
00:09:38,279 --> 00:09:41,240
Background noises another thing I did

247
00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:42,680
this year I didn't do last year so I was

248
00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:44,720
trying to scrambling where can I put all

249
00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:46,720
my things and the I had a few papers

250
00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,000
with written notes that helped me a lot

251
00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:51,160
um so I got in I'm trying to sort things

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00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:55,839
out but it worked pretty well uh I was

253
00:09:55,839 --> 00:09:57,560
pretty anxious just going into it all

254
00:09:57,560 --> 00:09:59,640
and I didn't have much time to think

255
00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:01,920
about it before I was the hardest part

256
00:10:01,920 --> 00:10:03,519
was like which phone number do I call

257
00:10:03,519 --> 00:10:08,000
First looking at my list um but I think

258
00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:09,480
you know as soon as I typed a number in

259
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,720
and hit dial I wasn't thinking about it

260
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:16,040
much and I was just in the zone ready to

261
00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:18,920
go yeah super high pressure situation

262
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,519
for the people that did step in for the

263
00:10:20,519 --> 00:10:21,720
five minutes

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00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,079
it's hard to explain it I guess you know

265
00:10:24,079 --> 00:10:25,959
it's just pressure on your chest you've

266
00:10:25,959 --> 00:10:28,920
got to think fast and um I wish I could

267
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:30,680
have done some things better but

268
00:10:30,680 --> 00:10:32,640
whenever you do go into the booth I

269
00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:34,360
don't know like some things just Escape

270
00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:38,399
you um I kind of heard it in passing and

271
00:10:38,399 --> 00:10:40,240
it's it's true whenever you step in

272
00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,079
there and the clock's running uh you you

273
00:10:43,079 --> 00:10:44,800
freeze up a little bit and five minutes

274
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,920
is gone you're like okay now I have 12

275
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:50,760
minutes to finish so it's a it's a it's

276
00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,680
worth experiencing it if you get the

277
00:10:52,680 --> 00:10:54,720
opportunity so if you're anything like

278
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,000
me you think about you know you get out

279
00:10:57,000 --> 00:10:59,279
of there go wander on Def con you do

280
00:10:59,279 --> 00:11:01,399
whatever and then you start fixating on

281
00:11:01,399 --> 00:11:03,480
the calls you're like I should have said

282
00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:05,639
this or I should have called this number

283
00:11:05,639 --> 00:11:07,519
did you either have any of those moments

284
00:11:07,519 --> 00:11:09,530
and what were

285
00:11:09,530 --> 00:11:11,760
[Music]

286
00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,839
they oh I made that worse

287
00:11:14,839 --> 00:11:17,079
um I

288
00:11:17,079 --> 00:11:20,160
think I felt like I got fewer objectives

289
00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:22,000
than last year but I was really happy I

290
00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:24,720
got two people in my you know best two

291
00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:26,680
calls to go to the website which I

292
00:11:26,680 --> 00:11:28,639
didn't get last year and I think that

293
00:11:28,639 --> 00:11:30,399
helped lot so I was really excited about

294
00:11:30,399 --> 00:11:32,240
that I was like I don't think I got as

295
00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,240
many objectives but the ones I did went

296
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,040
really well

297
00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:42,079
um I I think I you know I was nervous

298
00:11:42,079 --> 00:11:44,880
but I'd accepted the possibility of not

299
00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:46,639
winning again

300
00:11:46,639 --> 00:11:49,560
um I got over the grief last time so I

301
00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:52,560
was like I'm happy I did my best and I

302
00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:55,639
was just really satisfied leaving the

303
00:11:55,639 --> 00:11:57,959
booth yeah I had two in

304
00:11:57,959 --> 00:12:01,079
specific I wish I would have had the the

305
00:12:01,079 --> 00:12:02,440
gentleman that I got on the phone call

306
00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:04,760
me back and I missed that opportunity

307
00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:07,160
and then another one was uh well I I

308
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:09,880
guess a couple are playing some sounds

309
00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:11,880
and wearing an

310
00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:14,240
outfit um but like I said you know

311
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:16,639
whenever you're in the booth and people

312
00:12:16,639 --> 00:12:19,279
start uh the clock starts ticking you

313
00:12:19,279 --> 00:12:21,040
just some things kind of slip my mind

314
00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,079
and now I know what to expect and how to

315
00:12:23,079 --> 00:12:25,360
overcome that for the next

316
00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:28,519
competition if you break it you buy it

317
00:12:28,519 --> 00:12:30,720
what if you you done to our microphone

318
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,920
do I win the microphone now no so so let

319
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:36,880
me ask you this you're you know

320
00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:38,279
everybody's got a good plan until they

321
00:12:38,279 --> 00:12:40,680
get punched in the face right you're in

322
00:12:40,680 --> 00:12:43,040
the booth you've got so part of what we

323
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,279
ask the competitors to do is all the ENT

324
00:12:45,279 --> 00:12:46,839
report but then also a fishing plan

325
00:12:46,839 --> 00:12:50,000
Report with your pretext your call Flow

326
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,639
how you're going to go through and and

327
00:12:51,639 --> 00:12:54,160
kind of structure your call you had a

328
00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,800
plan how did it fall apart and how did

329
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,680
that impact you how how are you able to

330
00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:03,399
Pivot um like I said when I got into the

331
00:13:03,399 --> 00:13:04,880
booth I think the hardest part for me is

332
00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:06,600
like what number do I call First do I

333
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:08,800
focus on the stores or the corporate

334
00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,160
office I hadn't even really decided that

335
00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:14,360
I was really torn so I went the stores

336
00:13:14,360 --> 00:13:17,240
and I had one pretext for the stores and

337
00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,519
I think I called like two or three and

338
00:13:20,519 --> 00:13:23,320
those were just failing completely uh so

339
00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,440
I switched over to the

340
00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,959
office um with a slightly different

341
00:13:27,959 --> 00:13:30,160
pretext mostly same one I used last year

342
00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:34,440
pretty much uh and the two office calls

343
00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,079
I did went pretty

344
00:13:36,079 --> 00:13:38,760
well I you know I think I'd prepared for

345
00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:40,720
the possibility of the stores not

346
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:42,720
working but it still scared me cuz I had

347
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,920
like 50 store numbers and like five

348
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,079
corporate numbers so I'm like if the

349
00:13:47,079 --> 00:13:49,760
stores don't go well I've got to really

350
00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:51,800
make the most of the Corporate calls

351
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,399
which I

352
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:57,440
did yeah I kind of went this the the

353
00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,000
opposite direction I I had tried calling

354
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,759
Domino's corporate a couple times and I

355
00:14:01,759 --> 00:14:03,360
could never get through I tried multiple

356
00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,759
times in the day so corporate was kind

357
00:14:05,759 --> 00:14:08,279
of Out Of Reach for me and I I knew that

358
00:14:08,279 --> 00:14:10,279
and if I was going to make that call I

359
00:14:10,279 --> 00:14:12,240
was going to be last ditch and I almost

360
00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:14,120
did that with three or four minutes to

361
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,279
go in the competition I was going to

362
00:14:16,279 --> 00:14:19,720
make the pivot to call them uh but there

363
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,800
just wasn't enough time um you know I

364
00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,240
didn't have a I I think even a pickup

365
00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:26,639
somebody that would talk to me for the

366
00:14:26,639 --> 00:14:29,040
first five minutes two or three people

367
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,639
that I talked to first I think I had one

368
00:14:30,639 --> 00:14:32,199
hang up and another person just like

369
00:14:32,199 --> 00:14:35,880
questioned who I was um but man it gets

370
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,639
away from you super quick and you just

371
00:14:37,639 --> 00:14:39,600
got to be ready to Pivot and thankfully

372
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,279
the coaches pre-warned us and forwarned

373
00:14:42,279 --> 00:14:44,440
us to to Pivot and be prepared for it

374
00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:46,720
Jay I have a question for you sure this

375
00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:50,279
is your first fcon yep you're in

376
00:14:50,279 --> 00:14:52,759
cells I'm sorry you're in cells that's I

377
00:14:52,759 --> 00:14:55,040
was no I transition I'm no longer in

378
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,160
sales okay you're an infos is yeah infos

379
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,480
okay so is that how you found this Con

380
00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:02,680
was yeah yeah well I've been I've been

381
00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,279
like a wallf fly for like four years now

382
00:15:05,279 --> 00:15:07,880
just kind of watching this transition to

383
00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:10,519
Tech has been a five-year plan so even

384
00:15:10,519 --> 00:15:13,360
before you know I quit my last industry

385
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,759
job I had Ambitions to go into Tech but

386
00:15:17,759 --> 00:15:19,399
yes i' I've been watching but yeah this

387
00:15:19,399 --> 00:15:21,519
is so do you think your experience in

388
00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:23,519
cells was beneficial in Social

389
00:15:23,519 --> 00:15:26,800
Engineering absolutely Y what what

390
00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,880
experience exactly is are my is my

391
00:15:29,880 --> 00:15:31,680
experience with sales what experience do

392
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:33,880
you have that you feel that was

393
00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,480
beneficial so if somebody's listening to

394
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,800
this right what is that experience that

395
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:39,240
that background that knowledge that you

396
00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:41,120
had specifically from the sales world

397
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:43,160
that they could look for and go look to

398
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,160
in the sales World got you so my

399
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,279
experience with sales I was the

400
00:15:48,279 --> 00:15:50,000
representative for papy Van winkl

401
00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:52,279
Buffalo tray so my job was in Seattle

402
00:15:52,279 --> 00:15:55,519
where I would go convince Amazon buyers

403
00:15:55,519 --> 00:15:59,040
or Microsoft uh executives influencers

404
00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,440
how expect I guess not necessarily how

405
00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:03,319
to drink it but why they should try to

406
00:16:03,319 --> 00:16:06,560
drink Our Brands the key thing that I

407
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,839
learned in sales was to find the point

408
00:16:08,839 --> 00:16:10,839
that people lie on what is it that I can

409
00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:13,199
emotionally tie you into to me you're

410
00:16:13,199 --> 00:16:14,639
going to tell me something within like

411
00:16:14,639 --> 00:16:15,920
the first two or three minutes and

412
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:16,880
that's how I'm going to sell you

413
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:18,600
something but with social engineering

414
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:19,920
I'm not selling you a product I'm

415
00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,160
selling you myself or my story or

416
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,040
whatever it is whenever I told JC what I

417
00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:26,480
did he laughed and he said oh that's

418
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:27,839
going to be good but this is nothing

419
00:16:27,839 --> 00:16:30,040
like a sales and I was like okay yeah so

420
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,160
and it wasn't it was nothing like a

421
00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:34,519
sales call but um you know being able to

422
00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:36,839
listen is like the most important thing

423
00:16:36,839 --> 00:16:39,079
what people are telling you in Social

424
00:16:39,079 --> 00:16:41,560
Engineering with either in their facial

425
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,440
expressions or in their body language or

426
00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:44,920
you know what they'll tell you verbally

427
00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:46,199
people will give you Clues on what they

428
00:16:46,199 --> 00:16:47,959
want and what they dislike or or like

429
00:16:47,959 --> 00:16:50,120
and that really

430
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:54,440
helped beautiful so with the competition

431
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:57,120
it's it's fun for you all the

432
00:16:57,120 --> 00:16:58,560
competitors because you get a hop in in

433
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,240
the booth and it's fun for us because we

434
00:17:01,240 --> 00:17:02,880
get like 3 hours of sleep at night and

435
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:04,240
we get to run around and build all this

436
00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,319
stuff just to tear it down 48 hours

437
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:10,280
later for everyone else that comes and

438
00:17:10,280 --> 00:17:14,199
watches this the attendees they're going

439
00:17:14,199 --> 00:17:16,839
and watching how you do what you do so

440
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:19,799
that they can possibly build up defenses

441
00:17:19,799 --> 00:17:22,839
do training for their employees right

442
00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:26,079
and and prevent you all from from

443
00:17:26,079 --> 00:17:29,640
literally winning so in your calls or in

444
00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:33,200
your opinion in general what could have

445
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,000
been done differently to stop you how do

446
00:17:37,000 --> 00:17:39,919
we shut you

447
00:17:39,919 --> 00:17:44,039
down I you know I think I think about

448
00:17:44,039 --> 00:17:45,799
security awareness training a lot and I

449
00:17:45,799 --> 00:17:47,400
remember one of my callers was talking

450
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,000
about having like fishing training and

451
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,200
stuff but I rarely see fishing training

452
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,080
and security awareness trainings it's

453
00:17:57,080 --> 00:17:59,919
like emails are very well known but I

454
00:17:59,919 --> 00:18:01,600
don't think enough people know about the

455
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,120
risk of like phone calls someone calls

456
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:06,440
you pretending to be from it and a

457
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,240
person just going to believe you uh so I

458
00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,679
think you know Vishing needs to have

459
00:18:12,679 --> 00:18:14,760
that same level of training and scrutiny

460
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,039
that emails

461
00:18:17,039 --> 00:18:19,600
to yeah I think the simple answer is for

462
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:23,240
companies to instill some processes just

463
00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,919
some ID checks or some verification you

464
00:18:25,919 --> 00:18:28,440
know working in the corporate world all

465
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:30,480
it takes is an email and then the

466
00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:32,960
policy's in place uh and it seems like

467
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,080
they're just not doing that I I I can't

468
00:18:35,080 --> 00:18:37,840
say that for a fact or not um but if

469
00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,080
they would just instill simple simple

470
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,080
policies and a way to check some ID or

471
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:45,200
something like that that would probably

472
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,559
stop it but awareness is first and it

473
00:18:48,559 --> 00:18:50,880
just I don't know why people don't focus

474
00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:52,880
on that because I'm sure somebody knows

475
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:56,360
the number but it's like 85 90% of every

476
00:18:56,360 --> 00:18:58,880
attack uh starts with the human element

477
00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:00,360
or is leaked first with the human

478
00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:02,440
element I don't know why companies would

479
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,679
not start there it's the easiest and the

480
00:19:05,679 --> 00:19:09,000
probably least um the least amount of

481
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:12,440
money invested to get it put into

482
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,919
place excellent yes so with with the

483
00:19:14,919 --> 00:19:16,280
awareness piece it's something we

484
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,480
noticed and we we called out in in some

485
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:21,080
of our findings uh lots of fishing but

486
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,480
it's it's very rare fishing or to Arty

487
00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:24,840
boy's point right they will talk about

488
00:19:24,840 --> 00:19:26,520
their security awareness training openly

489
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,240
oh yeah yeah fishing this and we do that

490
00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:30,840
but

491
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:33,600
completely not connecting the dots that

492
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,280
hey this is the same thing I'm just

493
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,159
doing it over the phone very interesting

494
00:19:39,159 --> 00:19:41,000
if if there's somebody in the audience

495
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,000
are watching this that that

496
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:47,679
thinks wow I I really want to do that

497
00:19:47,679 --> 00:19:49,520
but they might not be sure if they could

498
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,320
actually get into that booth and and

499
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:52,960
make the call what words of

500
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:55,120
encouragement or advice or or just even

501
00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:57,760
setting the expectations for what it

502
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:58,960
what you have have to go through

503
00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,480
mentally to get into that thing if if if

504
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:02,720
you're where you are and you could talk

505
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:04,600
to past you when you were on the fence

506
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:05,799
what would you say that's the question I

507
00:20:05,799 --> 00:20:07,600
want to ask if you could talk to past

508
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:08,840
you and you're like I don't know if I

509
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:10,960
should do this what were those words

510
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,960
that that you needed to

511
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:17,799
hear for me the motivation was seeing

512
00:20:17,799 --> 00:20:21,440
calls in previous years and you know

513
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,520
seeing almost magic happen with people

514
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,559
giving away information and was

515
00:20:25,559 --> 00:20:27,840
fascinating to me I didn't have any

516
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,080
social engineering experience so I would

517
00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:33,080
just say you know if you are interested

518
00:20:33,080 --> 00:20:35,799
and did have some Fascination just hold

519
00:20:35,799 --> 00:20:37,679
on to that and you don't need experience

520
00:20:37,679 --> 00:20:41,039
you can try it yourself it's all about

521
00:20:41,039 --> 00:20:43,720
persistence and the coaches are there to

522
00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:45,799
help you and give you experience and

523
00:20:45,799 --> 00:20:48,320
guide you it's worth a

524
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,679
try yeah it's absolutely worth a try um

525
00:20:51,679 --> 00:20:54,080
you know if I was talking to myself few

526
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,000
years back I'd just say you can do it

527
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,200
anybody can do it really you're you're

528
00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,640
just going to have to get up and get the

529
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,840
in well I'm sorry get the uh motivation

530
00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:04,559
to uh do something like this and put

531
00:21:04,559 --> 00:21:07,320
yourself in an uncomfortable spot I left

532
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:09,080
a good paying position in search of

533
00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:11,320
something more in life and I feel like I

534
00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,080
found it here at the social engineering

535
00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:15,720
community I have been sitting in my

536
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,520
living room at a computer for like the

537
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:20,120
last four years doing nothing talking to

538
00:21:20,120 --> 00:21:22,720
nobody studying learning how to code

539
00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,400
trying to change my life for the better

540
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,080
and this was a blessing to do something

541
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:27,200
like this I had a couple people come up

542
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,400
to me last night and and ask about like

543
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,720
hey are you a are you a master hacker or

544
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,240
something like I'm like no like I've

545
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:35,600
been in Tech like not even technically

546
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,120
for like a week I just graduated last

547
00:21:38,120 --> 00:21:41,559
week from a bachelor's program

548
00:21:41,559 --> 00:21:45,120
um the the community around something

549
00:21:45,120 --> 00:21:47,159
like this is just awesome you know you

550
00:21:47,159 --> 00:21:49,600
experience it online and Discord and

551
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:51,880
Twitter uh and then you get to come

552
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,600
together in person and like I'm just so

553
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,600
glad I found it and you're not going to

554
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,200
find something like this unless you put

555
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,720
yourself in uncomfortable

556
00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,039
positions and I guess the last question

557
00:22:04,039 --> 00:22:05,799
that I have I don't think snow has any

558
00:22:05,799 --> 00:22:08,039
more and we get this question a lot we

559
00:22:08,039 --> 00:22:11,200
heard it uh the past day how are you

560
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,480
practicing this without actually doing

561
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:16,600
it what what are you doing in order to

562
00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:18,080
prepare for the competition in order to

563
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:19,320
practice your social engineering your

564
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,320
vising skills without actually you know

565
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:25,158
getting paid to do

566
00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:28,679
it um

567
00:22:28,679 --> 00:22:32,360
I you know fishing skills are kind of

568
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:35,480
just social skills and being able to

569
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:37,360
talk to people and be

570
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,200
friendly

571
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,840
uh people want to trust others and open

572
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,600
up for the most part and have a friendly

573
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:47,200
conversation so if you can just have a

574
00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:50,080
phone call that feels natural

575
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,679
and uh you know doesn't feel too forced

576
00:22:53,679 --> 00:22:55,960
or setting off red flags in someone's

577
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:57,559
mind they're not even going to think

578
00:22:57,559 --> 00:22:58,840
about their security training or

579
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:03,440
anything like we said you know it's just

580
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:05,480
about I think for me being friendly and

581
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,320
I work in TCH I'm having a lot of

582
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,240
conversations with people in my company

583
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,440
about security I work in security so it

584
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,039
helps that I'm used to talking about

585
00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:17,480
security and it topics so I guess

586
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,880
another thing is just knowing the

587
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760
subject matter you're talking about do

588
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:23,360
the research on the company understand

589
00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:25,919
systems and terminology if you can but

590
00:23:25,919 --> 00:23:29,640
it's about approaching people on a level

591
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,400
they're comfortable with friendliness

592
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,960
and technicality and

593
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,120
similar yeah that was well put uh just

594
00:23:38,120 --> 00:23:39,880
to add on top of that I'm sure we all

595
00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:42,039
deal with the whole inner dialogue that

596
00:23:42,039 --> 00:23:44,200
never stops that's pretty much how I

597
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:45,320
practice like could just run through

598
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:46,720
things in my head I also play video

599
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,760
games and that's where Doom came from um

600
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:51,159
I just play a lot of video games and

601
00:23:51,159 --> 00:23:52,799
I've got the voice changer on Call of

602
00:23:52,799 --> 00:23:54,360
Duty and mess with kids Whenever there

603
00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:56,880
was proximity

604
00:23:56,880 --> 00:23:59,240
chat it's a long

605
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,760
story

606
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,159
okay all

607
00:24:03,159 --> 00:24:05,200
right didn't we just have a whole event

608
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:06,679
helping children you're harassing

609
00:24:06,679 --> 00:24:09,440
Children online I'm sorry adults I play

610
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,320
in 18 over oh oh okay lobbies man

611
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,960
children got it okay well with that I

612
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:18,799
think we are done with our panel thank

613
00:24:18,799 --> 00:24:20,600
you to everyone who competed all of our

614
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,679
volunteers sponsors for making this

615
00:24:22,679 --> 00:24:25,919
happen and most importantly here with us

616
00:24:25,919 --> 00:24:28,799
Arty boy and doom are first and second

617
00:24:28,799 --> 00:24:31,320
place winners thank you so much thank

618
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:32,960
you everyone and thank you to all of our

619
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,320
lovely attendees for coming and

620
00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,200
supporting everyone in what we do we all

621
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,080
do it for you have a safe trip home and

622
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,799
we will see you at the Defcon closing

623
00:24:42,799 --> 00:24:46,918
ceremonies thank you